Devil Jin is easy in this game compared to older games, turned him into a stupid gimmick character with his current hellsweep and new stance design. Miss T6/Tag 2 devil jin
He's just a gimmicky trick based/setup character now, while characters that supposedly match this exact archetype (Ling, Yoshi...) have twice as good fundamental tools but also do damage AND they get to keep all of their oki setups and tricks and gimmicks from their earlier iterations (the reason being they had shit raw damage so they had to improvise) like how is that fair lol.
In my comment i called him jack of all trades, but yeah now djins more of a set up char, which would be fine if they didnt nerf the Ferrari tech, but also for a short time they destroyed the wall system cuz of heavens door, thanks, bamco
Im absolutely sure dj has potential for undiscovered setups. The thing is, he is not gonna be touched by creative bunch of setup finders, since they have other characters. Dj is played by either chronic flowcharters or people with mishima complex. First are too stupid to discover those and later are too conservative and stubborn to even try
@@dronnovik95 Can't help but think u have a mishima complex yourself since you're generalizing like that. There are many setups and tricks discovered by dvj mains since release it's just that other characters in the trick based archetype do it way better? Namely the Ferrari tech which was mentioned above that got instantly removed from the game as soon as Bamco saw Qudans use it in a tournament.
@@FlowingEdge- I am sorry to tell you that my friend but no it does not connect and it needs perfect timing sometimes with smaller characters like xiaoyu. but look at the bright side you are not having a skill issue😄
I remember how Devil Jin was a great Mishima character with great fundamental tools before the end of Tekken 7. Now in Tekken 8 he's pretty much lost that identity of what made him a unique Mishima character apart from Kazuya, Heihachi and Jin.
I disagree with him being unique Mishima before. He was good but 70% of his moveset was just Tekken Tag Jin. Now he acts more as a crazy devilish character, although he's weak.
@fancyhermit7 The overlap between DvJ and Jin was too much. They basically shared 50% of the moves. DvJ had slightly stronger pokes and stronger 50/50 and Electric. Jin had pokes with stronger CH tools with weaker 50/50 and Electric. Jin stole key Devil Jin moves so he would be the poke character in T8 where Devil Jin got given new moves with nerfed pokes and massively increased damage to make him a 50/50 and Oki monster. They both feel unique and now DvJ is a specialist character like Jin. Devil Jin was so easy in T7 you literally only needed to use df1, 11, b4, laster scrapper, ff2, Electric, d3 and hellsweep. Those 8 moves where done 99% of the time because it was a complete moveset that could achieve everything you want. Now Devil Jin has to use stance, crouch cancel WS2 and new tools a lot more, much mor interesting character now and very unique.
@@fancyhermit7 have we played different tekken? As far as i remember vast majority of high lvl players were annoyed how brain dead he was with uf4 and hellsweep. And then how unplayable he became with uf4 knock down removal. That shift in his tier after such simple nerf can mean either he lived and died by his brain dead 50/50 or dj players couldnt cope with him requiring fundamental play
Tekken itself has lost its identity with tekken 8 so Devil Jin being the way he is is not that hard to understand. I think he won't be in the next game (if you go by tekken 8 story) which is why devs want gamers to play with him less and less and then forget about him.
Every time I complained or had a bit of salt about how bad Devil Jin is in this game, people always give me the GET GUD stuff/telling me to spam 112 or Hellshweep (The average Kazuya player playstyle) when even doing that you're fighting for your life tooth and nail for something like 50 damage (talking in real heat of the moment matches and not practice mode) while most characters barely even put in effort to get 70/80 damage combos without Heat. People act like you're saying you want 1 button 7 billion damage electrics when I just asked for stuff like better recovery on some moves and some minor range buffs. I don't mind using gimmicky stances that has 1 safe move on counter hit, I just want the normal player to have a fighting chance past red ranks. in the pro scene, qudans is pretty much the only one using him (real one fr) was pretty much getting tossed around until Punishment 3 where managed to get 3rd place. Even then he was stretching that movelist to its limits and abusing heat dashes to make it through. Will I drop him for another character though? Nope, been with my man since I was a kid. I ain't ditching him
@SGHNTZ needs a remake, the whole basing a character around mediocre stance that's decent at best was a bad idea, and judging by the nerfs, even they wanted to make him the all rounder again, but forgot to give him back the tools that made him an all rounder, he needs a complete overhaul on his whole playstyle, new moves, give him back his tools like poking, maybe make him the good highs and lows Mishima he is supposed to be and keep the old mids that were fine, and actually give him good heat moves and better frames, he is basically played only in defensive, despite having the least defensive options in the cast, he is still the only character with only 1 power crush if we don't count his reversal.
I think every heat smash in the game should be as linear as devil jins because some characters set up a whole frame trap around it (drag sneak4 heatsmash)
ever tried ss nina hs? good luck with that, her gunfire is homing, you have to ss and then duck her heatsmash heatsmsashed should be sidesteppable AND end as soon as you whiff the first hit
@@gsfovg While that is true, some heatsmashes are strings that can still track and even hit you. They even move so far to avoid getting punished easily like Drags. In DVJ, once you sidestep the first hit, you avoid it altogether and he isn't that far enough that you can launch him easily
I just don't get how people are okay with having heat smashes that are plus on block and force a 50/50. People want the counterplay to be sidestepping which requires a real hard read and meanwhile the person doing the Heat Smash just has to press a single button.
what's more sad is, this is the last ride for DVJ in Tekken. we won't be seeing him in Tekken 9. Why they made this character this bad will always be a questionable decision
@@dyzioasmr7363 Jin and kaz no longer possess Devil Gene in story mode. If they some how get it back in the story expansion then yeah we might have him in T9.
@@CertifiedMVP DVJ’s ending in T6 shows if Azazel took back the Devil Gene from Jin then his tattoo would disappear, he still has it at the end of Tekken 8. It’s clear that his Devil powers are just dormant for the time being Plus this is Tekken, Harada will make up any excuse to give Jin and Kazuya their powers back. Both of them are inevitably gonna have to fight Devil Reina
Whats weird is that they changed his 112 like that to make us use his MC stance for it as a followup, but with the nerfs to MC1 and MC22, every option from it is just so risky even tho that's supposed to be your "mix" after his flash punch. Atleast pre-nerf you can guarantee +frames with MC1. But now even for a techroll, if you do MC right ahead, MC22 will whiff even if its a tracking move. If you delay your MC, every option can hit, but everything can be beaten by spring kick. It's like they don't think whenever they apply these nerfs.
I think the idea is that you spam MC3 for some chip dmg if they techroll and it hits grounded if they don't, it CH's if they press buttons after techroll, but they can avoid it by pressing back, but that's when you can use his other tools effectively, I guess. So yeah, just do MC3 after 1,1,2, if they know how to avoid it, mix it up with wavuwavu mixups, or just don't do anything and go for another 1,1,2, hellsweep or whatever you want to do. You can also try and delay the MC options. Idk. I use him this way, I rather go for some chip dmg, and try to hit them once more with a poke so they can't get their health back.
@@SGHNTZ I studied the frame data carefully. And Main DVJ. 1,1,2 into MC3 guarantees chip damage, a ground hit, or counter hit if they wake up attack. I haven't had a single player in ranked use spring kick in response. Before I switched to using MC3 you can just wave dash right up to them and use FF2. You simply get close enough and they'll eat chip damage no matter if they tech roll , or wake up backwards. FF2 is faster than MC3, recovers maybe a frame faster on whiff. Point is, I've had zero enemies safely waking up after getting hit with 1,1,2. (+13) but it feels like +20 because of the time needed to wake up or tech roll. If your opponent is using Spring Kick or Wake Up kicks in response, I would think they're bad at the game. You can just as easily run up and get close enough to do db1+2 at a safe range and make them eat chip damage if they wake up sooner than later.
i do miss his old heatsmash range, a great whiff punish tool that made you feel powerful if the opponent enjoyed throwing out options in the open, allowed you to safely get in to apply pressure while in heat. They nerfed too many things at once but even before the nerfs, he really didnt feel like devil jin so personally ive dropped and main Jin full time with kazuya as my secondary
@@altertheunknownhonestly they should've kept range,, yes tracking is probably stronger, but also he is forces in MC on block, and honestly, now the heat smash looks visually bad, it's like he's dragging weights, if they kept range he would still build some pressure, and he can also be safe if they dodge, cause the issue with the smash now being steppable is not whiffing, it's the punishment, you basically give them, anything they wanna do really, they can grab, float you, launch you and do fool combos too.
Kinda funny how if one would make a tier list of each character's strength lore wise and flipped that shit upside down, they'd get pretty accurate list on each character's strength game wise
I swear to god part of why they nerfed him was because “he looked overpowered” due to his cool new designs and lasers etc… such a stupid reason for the community to collectively complain about him when the game released
@@sugoi9680 well sure that stuff as well, I’m just saying that a lot of community perception was definitely influenced by DVJ being “scary laser shooting crazy demon man” that lead to a misconception about how broken he was
@@yungbruh666 Maybe. Tbh I don't know what the community thought but I do know he went from Top 5 to bottom 5 with these patches. Which is weird cuz isn't Dj supposed to be strong?
@@yungbruh666 DVJ pre patch was S tier and broken. His heatsmash was the best move in the entire game and the mental stack of this fullscreen homing plus on block fast mid was too much and controlled the match flow
This vid does a good job at explaining my problem, they nerfed the basic moves for a new stance, then nerfed the stance, not useless but im just like 'ok' And in 7 and 8, devil jins role is weird, hes a jack of all trades but sijce everyone is becoming so well rounded hes losing his purpose cuz hes sorta just outclassed in most ways compared to say nina, jin, drag, hell king could prolly be a better devil jin with the crouch dash rework, haha
Only in 7, in 8 he lost his jack of all trades persona, not only that he lost what kind of Mishima he was, the poking good highs and lows Mishima, now he only has good highs, but bad mids and lows, making him a gimmick character, based around mc, while also removing other moves that would've complimented his gimmicks, like the three ring circus and it's upper version, or the fly on block with samsara.
@@mothman566 wont lie i miss old twin lancer the most, and the jab range, honestly they could his mid game by just giving back left splits kick, safe mid launcher His db2 is fine but hard to compare when jin has db4 and frickin d2, also weird that jins samsaras so awkward to punish when its strong and evasive, i guess cuz its stance but still Like djins stuck in purgatory where they dont want him to be jack of all trades but also dont wanna commit to any archetype that hard, so hes left as an odd char
@@HELLRAISER02 judging by the nerfs and they're statements, it's like they want to make him an all rounder again, but forgot to actually give him back the tools and moves that made him like that. if I were to fix him, I would start by making him more similar to story mode, give him Jin's df2 he doesn't need 6 ways to go mc, and his df2 is so bad, fiendish rend is kinda like parting waves, compliments his gameplay, then for heqt give him back the range and not the tracking of the smash, mostly for aesthetic reasons but also to make him safe, give him 1 1 1 and angel Jin's swords as heat moves and make the launching hellsweep heat only but give it back it's range and old damage, make his ff2 go to shackles on block and overall give him better frames, there's no reason for him to be so minus and unsafe when he is not meant to be a defensive character, he still only has 1 power crush, make the df1 followup either a mid or guaranteed on hit, and give him better lows, those are only the basic things he must have to be at least more complete. Then depending on if they want him to be the all rounder again or stay gimmicky: For the all rounder, increase 112 range back to the original range, give wallsplat to bf 2 3, make the distance of his U2 shorter to start a combo and make uf 4 work similarly, make 1+2 cancellable again and make CD 1+2 faster, and give an electric or perfect version of cd1 similar to Jin or heihachi. For gimmicks instead, just give him back his old 50/50s samsara fly on block, his three ring circus and upper, and 3 1 3 to mix up with 3 1 4, and make mc 3 a power crush at least in heat and give it just a bit more tracking or make the hitbox wide like the animation suggests.
@@mothman566 thats a lot of chabges, i doubt theyll do it even tho story mode has the assets, i prefer the all rounder idea but i bet theyll prolly just make him mega gimmick or something, i personally mainly just want mishima left splits kick back, and old twin lancer, plz
@@HELLRAISER02 it's a lot of changes, cause that's how incomplete he is, it's not that he's just bad, it's that he is incomplete he misses too much and after all the nerfs his already small movelist and tools, got even smaller, he got nerfed a lot in t7, but at least he was still a complete character, now he doesn't even have heat anymore.
Damn. Perhaps we been to harsh to Dvj. He was considered a top tier and “the best Mishima” in tekken. Just such a shame how developers have treated him in the last few years 😢
More like the last decade damn near. He was so strong in tag 2 arguable top 2/3. When top 5 season 1 of t7 and hasn’t been shit since. Granted I still kick ass with Devil Jin but you have to be a pure asshole too win with him now
@@lilripstaSSF4hello and good day bro. Even if he is a top character, he tied with the most difficult and demanding execution heavy character that need lots and lots of hour on practice. So even on the past you don't see alot of mishima players. So it kinda just for hardest = strong instead of easy = strong which is the case with drag and alisa among others.
People forget that Devi Jin wasn’t supposed to be playable but fans after tekken 4 wanted his original moveset from 3 to return which was 90% a Kazuya clone
I feel like he could be fixed easily but I don't think developers really want to (not yet). I remember at the start of Tekken 7 people were complaining about Devil Jin being by far the best character since his introduction in T5 and also that since T5 the game feels the same. Tekken 8 was supposed to shake things up but developers got scared by new players complaining about DJ (probably because his moves are so flashy now) so they nerfed him and now we're here. Maybe they'll fix him after the release of Heihachi. Or we'll get Devil Reina as final S1 DLC character and she'll do everything better as she does everything better than all the Mishimas (and Lidia).
Leroy, From Moveset to the 1st trailer reveal music & Solitary warrior instrumental tracks Not being released, No two stages, To his Anime representation, They killed him before he was even released from DLC.
It's a shame bcuz this is the best looking devil jin in years, also got very cool moves too with the mourning crow and stuff. It's just sad that his not that enjoying anymore. Right now he only has good damage, but how can you even get to that point if you have gimmicky tools to begin with.
I think people complained about mourning crow's range 3 oki. That's why they nerfed the tracking of mourning crow 1 so Devil Jin wouldn't be +8 after a knockdown. And then you have the mourning crow mix up in heat which is doing 2,2 or the command grab. Pretty good mixup, but you only die for doing the command grab if your opponent ducks. But you can also be +8 if they aren't trying to jab float you. However, you take damage for doing that too if your opponent is dumb enough to disrespect your mourning crow in heat. Felt like they should've left it alone if this was the design they were going for.
The thing is they also nerfed MC22's tracking because of the ferarri tech (catching enemies techrolling with MC22 after a ws3 as ender). So now, if you outright do MC after 112, MC1 and MC22 whiffs on a techroll, and MC3 can easily be blocked at -7. If you slightly delay your MC, your MC1 and MC22 both can track an enemy techrolling, but every delayed option can be springkicked. It's a pretty ass design that they didn't look into when nerfing the character.
@@thejoekage9499 the enemy has no time to Side Step FF2 after getting hit with flash punch. Even if they wake up backwards. FF~, D, DF, F~2. Extend a dash into a wave dash (still gets to extend the dash for FF2) has worked every time for me.
7:15 No, I didn't know that. I main Steve, so they essentially made it to where Devil Jin gets hit with a 13 frame Flash from Steve and any other character with a 13 frame CH launcher while it's still hus turn?! That's Tekken 8 for you.
The "gimmick" of it is that you need to read if he's going to do MC 22 or just MC 2, and most people dont wanna risk punishing MC 2 incase they actually did the whole string and eat it.
Never forget the doom ringers were crying devil jin was top 5 in tekken 8 and broken and had to be nerfed to the ground. Well the cry babies won for the 2nd game in a row. A character can be top tier AND fair. Its not right to nerf a character just for being good. People just hate dvj for some reason when he has ALWAYS been honest. You cant hate on mishimas when he has to put in twice the work to do most combos that do any real damage.
@rurounijay7100 yet hwo has beaten dj by 2 times now XD I think we overthink dj is lorewise a monster while kazuya should be tier 1 and only by that sentence...
I get that he's fhe worst right now. But one thing i understood when the game came out and when people got to use him and was on the receiving end of a DVJ beatdown is that he was already ok, its just that a lot people were complaining how "strong" he was before getting gutted patch after patch. For me honestly he was already ok with thd exception of the busted tracking for the heat smash, everything could have been fine that could have been the only thing removed, but people were still complaining about how his kit works...so now we have this, probably the worst version of DVJ ever
It happened to Eddy and probably gonna happen to Lidia too, except in his case is worse cause he is hard, top 2 hardest character, people complain not cause a character is strong, but cause it's new, people weren't complaining as much about dragunov at first by the way, so now we have broken braindead characters, and 2 soon 3 bad characters, 1 of which is very hard and was at most top 11 at launch, and a character who was also bad on release and a paid dlc and now is basically gone, it's as if Eddy never came out, people should chill and wait, sure if there's a move too broken it might be ok to Nerf immediately,but again, drag had a +7 fast mid with lots of range heat engager that can launch since launch, but no one complained about that till recently.
The main reason why people thought he was op was because of on release MC1, his heat smash, and range of his hellsweep. Those were broken on release and to nerf them the balance team decided to just hard nerf it. You used to have an actual oki with Mc1 after 112 but they nerf how fast mc1 came out and it's tracking, the hell sweep nerf imo was bs I was ok with it's ranged being nerf but they nerf the dmg on it too. It used to do like 45 with the regular and now it only does 35. It just that he kept receiving nerfs every patch.
@@kaysonlee1031 those were mainly was broken about him but was badly nerfed since the behavior after the nerf was dumbfounding to say the least. Honestly if the balance team were to nerf DVJ by collecting data after a few short months they would have properly nerfed DVJ properly without making him too useless. Cause one thing to remember he's already a mishima character, which most of us know has a very high skill ceiling to reach, well each mishima respectively, but also has that unique style that sets each mishima or mishima archtype character apart from each other. Now it feels like instead of worrying about fighting the opponent, its like fighting the opponent in front of you and the character you're using at the same time
Which was basically 90% Kazuya replacement with little of Jun’s moves. Kazuya’s return was the only excuse they changed Jin’s gameplay to be different and they fitted into the narrative then.
I think it's worth mentioning that MC 2 on Hit and on CH is -5. We can't even get some plus frames trying to play a little bit more safe. No, they really want us to gamble our life with MC 1 or MC 2,2. Also, even after a ws+1,2 or d/f+2 on hit into MC, the opponent can still step or jab us out of MC. This stance is full of flaws.
Make U/f4 knock down in heat, reduce 1, 1, 2's launch distance, give MC stance a stance cancel for potential mixups, and give him a decent 15 frame launcher from crouch, even if it's only in heat. It feels like they definitely wanted to make this character benefit most from the heat mechanic so at least let him be a high tier during heat at the very least.
Another giganerf they gave DVJ was his d2 omg they nerfed tf out of it in t7, but then they gave it to regular jin instead. It used to be a counter hit launcher but now all dvj gets in t8 is just like b4 guaranteed hit and that it like wtf does the balancing team be thinking when it comes to dvj
My dude, my friend, mi amigo, WHAT ARE YOU DOING. Harada just saw your thumbnail and decided to nerf-nerf-nerf Devil Jin again :( (According to the leaks, his df1 is now i16, Hellsweep launches DJ on hit, 1,1,2 is NCC and doesn't knock down, Mourning Crow 3 deals 24 damage to the user, and -only his- electric is now mid, but launch punishable on hit. Btw, Drag's qcf4 is homing and Jin's 2,1,4 launches on block.)
what the omni crushing across the whole screen heatsmash, making everyone forced to hold b for the entire time dvj heat was up wasnt a great experience? how come? :o (irony off)
A move with an animation that goes in a straight direction that hits a sidestepping opponent really loses the 3D aspect of its combat. Only moves with animations that have circular movements should hit sidestepping opponents, whether it's one side or both sides.
The idea they had behind changing 112 the way they did was... To enable mourning crow mixup after. You're meant to mourninh crow after landing a 112 in the open apparently.
Panda, D.jin, Lars will always be low tier. Namco doesn't want to buff this chars. That's why I hate Namco, greedy for money That's why it's better to play Dragonov.
Too bad 112 got the Nerf range for both kaz and dvj, and gave the range all to reina, it's like giving someone better shoes to run, while also breaking they're legs, unfortunately 112 is bad, even if he has better tracking, especially when they nerfed the frames on it and also increased the distance.
112 doesn't track that well in real matches, It does but like it's useful in like...2 of 10 matches??? Also 11 * 2 is interruptible before the 2 cause it's was to damn good that dj had a string that's not interruptible since the 1st move xd
Despite him being low tier on paper Sorry I’m not enjoying playing against some Mortal combat aah character who flies around and gets you everywhere and always gets oki for no reason. Him and Alisa are absolutely annoying to fight against except Alisa is actually S tier on paper
I honestly don't get why they brought him back. You gave jin some of his moves and made him unnecessarily strong, then you gutted the fuck out of dvj after you went out of your way to bring him back. At this point he would have been better off having not been added to the game.
No character as difficult to pilot as Devil Jin should ever be weak. I don't care how consistently he's been super-strong in the past. The same applies to Steve. Characters that have stringent execution demands and/or a complex game plan (Steve and Devil Jin have both) should never be garbage-tier. Now, whether Devil Jin should always be top 5 is a different matter.
some of these changes are reasonable tho. Like the DF2 change is reasonable since they are trying to stay away from a lot of chars having safe mid ch launchers like they did in t7. They took that away from a lot of chars except the ones who specialize with that kind of thing minus Steve.
The problem I have is that they were explaining that they were trying to reduce the amount of ppl that have a counter hit launcher in tekken 8 but here we are
Ye but why make df2 so bad? They could've gave him fiendish rend, a move he has in story mode, but instead gave him a df2 that is useless, all it does is go mc on hit, and only guarantees a follow up on counterhit so you often get punished, and what's worse is that he already had 5 other better ways to go mc, he doesn't need a sixth useless one, with fiendish rend he would kinda get a t3 or t5 move back, and have another way to go CD, and maybe make that CD 1+2 actually useful
Devil jin deserves every single patch and should deserve more. Reaching you across the map with his moves. Launching hellsweep for wall or floor break. And whatever he does, he somehow gets oki.
Did you watch the videos with your eyes closer? You can literally sidestep him while he reaches out from across the screen and hit him with a full combo, he is dogwater You can also just jab him💀
He sucks to fight against because us DVJ players have to constantly play at our absolute best to even compete with some of these braindead power crept freaks on the roster
As a DVJ main, 1,1,2 always leaves the enemy close enough to force them into having to block F3,3. Always will reach them and force them into blocking or getting hit on the ground. Also 1,1,2 has way more reach than it ever has. Its the furthest reaching flash punch in tekken history, Edit: I mean the last hit, which it does, reach all the way across the stage.
112 has horrible range, because his jab is awful. It doesn’t matter the last hit can reach far if the first hit whiffs. you can force them to block mc3... now what, you just gave up your turn for zero mixup.
@@Alsry1 Flash Punch is + enough to run down the enemy regardless. I have no issues with DVJs jab reach either. My Prowess is 225,000 Then again, I watch Qudans play, so I actually know what I'm doing. Also the 2, in 1,1,2, Reaches across the stage, is what I meant. Which means it can be used to turtle. 1,1,2 rush down works every time for me.
@@darkmatter21_xx ain't no way bro thinks 225k prowess is high. I be playing against 310k prowess GoD dvjs. finishing 112 is stupid, I don't know why i gotta tell you that. There's some 260k prowess players that don't even know how to play the game.
@@Alsry1 Never said it was high. The "best USA DVJ" in ranked is some 270,000. Qudans is at 400,000. I'm still ranking up. I'll easily be at 300,000 way before I reach my skill limit.
devil jin isn't that bad, it's just the average power level is way too high. Everyone knew that in T7 but people seem to forget that because T8 is a new game with more confusing mechanics. There are some unnecessary nerfs but they pale in comparison to the amount of silly buffs
Dvj is strong. Just not as strong as the rest of the cast. Instead of buffing DVJ, I think everyone needs to be nerfed down to his level imo. He's the ideal power level for a balanced gameplay i feel.
I disagree on the heat smash tracking, it had to go away, on pre-patch dvj when he had heat active you literally couldnt move and was forced to only hold back or duck.
See now this is why people cant be upset for what they asked for. Devil Jin was amazing in tekken 7 but slowly over time he got tuned to be worse and worse. Same thing with Steve in tekken 7. Steve is better than devil jin but because the community complained harada listened. Now hes garbage but thats what everyone wanted. So i blame the community for that. Azucena was good now shes not. Everyone is saying nerf dragunov and when he gets the nerfs they are gonna cry and say oh well he sucks. If you ask for nerfs you'll get them byt you cant complain about them after the fact. Im not saying mwkan is complaining. Im saying that the community was upset that he was so good like other characters and they got tuned down. Now that they suck they want better buffs for the character now. So i agree with buffing devil jin. Crow stance is unsafe which makes it no point to use basically. Im more annoyed at the dumbass people asking for useless nerfs on characters. Learn the matchup and do your homework. If anything the character that should be nerfed is like king. Too much damage, pokes are minimally risky. Power crush 3 only being minus 10 on block should be more like minus 14. But since people complained so mucb he got nerfed so bad. Its ok to nerf a few things. But make the character unplayable? Thats the communitys fault for constantly complaining about a character. Some moves are always too strong and can be changed but after that quit complaining.
@@mothman566 true but that doesn't mean he wasn't a piece of shit to fight, although i would take the broken but hard devil jin instead of the just broken jin.
@@jojofan2551 ye but no one wants him to be broken, but to be rewarded for they're effort, cause being hard is already a big disadvantage,being easy is an advantage though, why do you think very few people complain about bears? They suck but they are easy you so the difficulty reward balance is there, dvj now is basically a bad character who's also hard, meanwhile braindead drag is top 1 with 4 moves
Mind you devil jin has more combo damage output than zafina…. He’s not the worst character. His damage and wall carry is way better than hers. He’s difficult to play because he has to rely on a hellsweeps for momentum which is death . However he does have his unblockable grab and gets over 75 damage or more far better provided you master electrics and his fully charged Jamba spear breaks guard and is extremely hard to step and has insane range…. Zafina doesn’t have any of that.
Sure zaf doesn't have that, but she doesn't need any of that. Those moves you mentioned about dj are very gimmicky. db1+2 is only really good when they are next to wall, and his unblockable grab is only accessible in heat and depletes his entire heat gage. Not to mention all these moves require lots of conditioning of your opponent. Zaf has great access to her win conditions with her amazing pokes and pressure. She doesnt have much combo output because she can literally kill you without doing combos at all. Her moves are just that good. So why compare the 2?
@@bokossu Zafina lost many of her counter hit pokes and had to take her life for all her powers. Her pokes got gutted along with her nuetral b1+2. He can access his abilities without his health depleting. In a high level match you really have to be aware of how much health you’re using because every little bit counts.
No doubt he's worse than he used to be, but he used to be crazy in T7. A bunch of the stuff you put in the video is fucking crazy good, of course he needed to be toned down. He had every tool anyone needs combined with the best wall combo in the game and the best panic tools. Even after the nerf he was far from one of the worst characters in the game, people just reacted that way because he was no longer straight OP. He's still a good character. He has great pokes, he's extremely versatile, good damage, big range on mourning crow etc. You can't play him like you used to and that's ok. They've altered his playstyle a bit. Use his other hellsweep extension to decimate the enemies grey health, being one of the biggest true damage lows in the game. He's not bad, not bad at all. DJ players just need to adapt.
If you think DVJ is not good, just drop the game and go play something else honestly. Yall just hop on popular people saying he is bad and actually believe it, same garbage happening with Ryu in SF6 people saying he is bad till 1 person wins a tournament with the character and suddenly they are A tier. Tired of this clownsy fanbases of not actually trying to get good especially in a game that is not even 1 years old.
So momo dog literally one of the best players and the best devil jin player has no idea what he is talking about ? And plenty of other pros as well ? He'll even mainman came out and said he's by far the worst mishimas and is low tier.
This is the treatment DVJ got in a game where the beginner friendly characters Alisa & Dragunov have plus frames on block on a lot of their moves
And these baby characters are much easier to play, than Devil Jin
@@Mironderrr And Jin one of the hardest in T7 become ... in T8.
@@butterflybubble-qw9pb so true mate
Devil Jin is easy in this game compared to older games, turned him into a stupid gimmick character with his current hellsweep and new stance design. Miss T6/Tag 2 devil jin
@@X_The_Y ‘’Easy’’ while you have to optimize the MC setups, WS3 Tech and MC 4, 2, 1+2 delay for maximum damage 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
He's just a gimmicky trick based/setup character now, while characters that supposedly match this exact archetype (Ling, Yoshi...) have twice as good fundamental tools but also do damage AND they get to keep all of their oki setups and tricks and gimmicks from their earlier iterations (the reason being they had shit raw damage so they had to improvise) like how is that fair lol.
In my comment i called him jack of all trades, but yeah now djins more of a set up char, which would be fine if they didnt nerf the Ferrari tech, but also for a short time they destroyed the wall system cuz of heavens door, thanks, bamco
Im absolutely sure dj has potential for undiscovered setups. The thing is, he is not gonna be touched by creative bunch of setup finders, since they have other characters. Dj is played by either chronic flowcharters or people with mishima complex. First are too stupid to discover those and later are too conservative and stubborn to even try
@@dronnovik95 Can't help but think u have a mishima complex yourself since you're generalizing like that. There are many setups and tricks discovered by dvj mains since release it's just that other characters in the trick based archetype do it way better? Namely the Ferrari tech which was mentioned above that got instantly removed from the game as soon as Bamco saw Qudans use it in a tournament.
And those gimmicky trick based/set up characters are easier to use than devil jin in this game
true, dvj is just unecessarily hard to play
Let's not forget up laser not working on bears or super inconsistent vs smaller characters too
I literally wanted to plug once, when my fucking laser missed the Xiayou on 2-2 matchpoint. It’s so stupidly inconsistent with its timing.
Yup lose a few games to this bs
@@fex6414 tekken community is fucked as well as the devs their all garbages, whining about how op dj is
Wait so all this time I wasn’t just timing the up laser wrong? Does it seriously not connect on bears after tornado screw?
@@FlowingEdge- I am sorry to tell you that my friend but no it does not connect and it needs perfect timing sometimes with smaller characters like xiaoyu.
but look at the bright side you are not having a skill issue😄
I remember how Devil Jin was a great Mishima character with great fundamental tools before the end of Tekken 7. Now in Tekken 8 he's pretty much lost that identity of what made him a unique Mishima character apart from Kazuya, Heihachi and Jin.
I disagree with him being unique Mishima before. He was good but 70% of his moveset was just Tekken Tag Jin. Now he acts more as a crazy devilish character, although he's weak.
@fancyhermit7 The overlap between DvJ and Jin was too much. They basically shared 50% of the moves.
DvJ had slightly stronger pokes and stronger 50/50 and Electric.
Jin had pokes with stronger CH tools with weaker 50/50 and Electric.
Jin stole key Devil Jin moves so he would be the poke character in T8 where Devil Jin got given new moves with nerfed pokes and massively increased damage to make him a 50/50 and Oki monster.
They both feel unique and now DvJ is a specialist character like Jin. Devil Jin was so easy in T7 you literally only needed to use df1, 11, b4, laster scrapper, ff2, Electric, d3 and hellsweep. Those 8 moves where done 99% of the time because it was a complete moveset that could achieve everything you want. Now Devil Jin has to use stance, crouch cancel WS2 and new tools a lot more, much mor interesting character now and very unique.
@@fancyhermit7 have we played different tekken? As far as i remember vast majority of high lvl players were annoyed how brain dead he was with uf4 and hellsweep. And then how unplayable he became with uf4 knock down removal. That shift in his tier after such simple nerf can mean either he lived and died by his brain dead 50/50 or dj players couldnt cope with him requiring fundamental play
Tekken itself has lost its identity with tekken 8 so Devil Jin being the way he is is not that hard to understand. I think he won't be in the next game (if you go by tekken 8 story) which is why devs want gamers to play with him less and less and then forget about him.
Agreed @@Golden_BOI
Every time I complained or had a bit of salt about how bad Devil Jin is in this game, people always give me the GET GUD stuff/telling me to spam 112 or Hellshweep (The average Kazuya player playstyle) when even doing that you're fighting for your life tooth and nail for something like 50 damage (talking in real heat of the moment matches and not practice mode) while most characters barely even put in effort to get 70/80 damage combos without Heat.
People act like you're saying you want 1 button 7 billion damage electrics when I just asked for stuff like better recovery on some moves and some minor range buffs. I don't mind using gimmicky stances that has 1 safe move on counter hit, I just want the normal player to have a fighting chance past red ranks.
in the pro scene, qudans is pretty much the only one using him (real one fr) was pretty much getting tossed around until Punishment 3 where managed to get 3rd place. Even then he was stretching that movelist to its limits and abusing heat dashes to make it through.
Will I drop him for another character though? Nope, been with my man since I was a kid. I ain't ditching him
On 2nd thought I was too salty in this comment lmao
He needs better mid options and the character would already be better I think.
@SGHNTZ needs a remake, the whole basing a character around mediocre stance that's decent at best was a bad idea, and judging by the nerfs, even they wanted to make him the all rounder again, but forgot to give him back the tools that made him an all rounder, he needs a complete overhaul on his whole playstyle, new moves, give him back his tools like poking, maybe make him the good highs and lows Mishima he is supposed to be and keep the old mids that were fine, and actually give him good heat moves and better frames, he is basically played only in defensive, despite having the least defensive options in the cast, he is still the only character with only 1 power crush if we don't count his reversal.
hell yeah brother, we on the Devil Jin cross until the end
@@mothman566 tekken balance team just wanted another stance mixup character in the roster
I think every heat smash in the game should be as linear as devil jins because some characters set up a whole frame trap around it (drag sneak4 heatsmash)
ever tried ss nina hs? good luck with that, her gunfire is homing, you have to ss and then duck her heatsmash
heatsmsashed should be sidesteppable AND end as soon as you whiff the first hit
Heat Smashes' tracking has already been nerfed. Devil Jin's is the only one that's overnerfed
@@gsfovg While that is true, some heatsmashes are strings that can still track and even hit you. They even move so far to avoid getting punished easily like Drags. In DVJ, once you sidestep the first hit, you avoid it altogether and he isn't that far enough that you can launch him easily
I just don't get how people are okay with having heat smashes that are plus on block and force a 50/50. People want the counterplay to be sidestepping which requires a real hard read and meanwhile the person doing the Heat Smash just has to press a single button.
@@h4b3e1n9b0Rnu know thats not a bad thing right? Now u Get ur ws punish and no off axis combo
Even non DVJ players demand for a buffing on him, which is literally looked more bad than it should be lmao
sad because hes so sick in 8
I still can't believe that TheMainManSwe & Lil Majin made people think that DJ was op. 🤦🏾♂️
what's more sad is, this is the last ride for DVJ in Tekken.
we won't be seeing him in Tekken 9. Why they made this character this bad will always be a questionable decision
They will never let any mishima stay dead, dont worry. Hes making it into Tekken 9
@@dyzioasmr7363 Jin and kaz no longer possess Devil Gene in story mode.
If they some how get it back in the story expansion then yeah we might have him in T9.
@@CertifiedMVP Way im looking at this is that devil gene is "compretry ded"
They will probably add him, but in this case it will be "angel jin" instead of "devil jin"
@@CertifiedMVP DVJ’s ending in T6 shows if Azazel took back the Devil Gene from Jin then his tattoo would disappear, he still has it at the end of Tekken 8. It’s clear that his Devil powers are just dormant for the time being
Plus this is Tekken, Harada will make up any excuse to give Jin and Kazuya their powers back. Both of them are inevitably gonna have to fight Devil Reina
breaks my heart💔he was one of my faves way back in t6 !! HE NEEDS BUFFS in t8 for sure !!😢
I blame TMMSWE
god i cant stand that man, his kid probably whines less than he does
Him and everyone who though devil Jin was too strong. Too many people cry without having played the character. If they did they’d realize he’s hard af
I remember mainmanswe crying for Devil Jin and Feng nerfs in Tekken 7. Unfortunately, BamCo devs listened to him :(
TMMsalt
I'm pretty sure the only thing he complained about was the heat smash, which really was quite stupid at first.
Whats weird is that they changed his 112 like that to make us use his MC stance for it as a followup, but with the nerfs to MC1 and MC22, every option from it is just so risky even tho that's supposed to be your "mix" after his flash punch. Atleast pre-nerf you can guarantee +frames with MC1. But now even for a techroll, if you do MC right ahead, MC22 will whiff even if its a tracking move. If you delay your MC, every option can hit, but everything can be beaten by spring kick. It's like they don't think whenever they apply these nerfs.
I think the idea is that you spam MC3 for some chip dmg if they techroll and it hits grounded if they don't, it CH's if they press buttons after techroll, but they can avoid it by pressing back, but that's when you can use his other tools effectively, I guess. So yeah, just do MC3 after 1,1,2, if they know how to avoid it, mix it up with wavuwavu mixups, or just don't do anything and go for another 1,1,2, hellsweep or whatever you want to do. You can also try and delay the MC options. Idk. I use him this way, I rather go for some chip dmg, and try to hit them once more with a poke so they can't get their health back.
@@SGHNTZ I studied the frame data carefully. And Main DVJ. 1,1,2 into MC3 guarantees chip damage, a ground hit, or counter hit if they wake up attack. I haven't had a single player in ranked use spring kick in response. Before I switched to using MC3 you can just wave dash right up to them and use FF2. You simply get close enough and they'll eat chip damage no matter if they tech roll , or wake up backwards. FF2 is faster than MC3, recovers maybe a frame faster on whiff. Point is, I've had zero enemies safely waking up after getting hit with 1,1,2. (+13) but it feels like +20 because of the time needed to wake up or tech roll. If your opponent is using Spring Kick or Wake Up kicks in response, I would think they're bad at the game. You can just as easily run up and get close enough to do db1+2 at a safe range and make them eat chip damage if they wake up sooner than later.
Still leaves you to far. You have to dash or micro walk to get in range 🤦🏽
@@darkmatter21_xx True
Devil Jin, Raven, and Zafina are The Three Stooges.
If Kuma better than Devil Jin, you fked up.
He is sadly
These are dark times for us DJ players.
And in the lore DVJ is stronger than his normal form. Make it make sense
sensory overload with all the music playing in the background 😢
Bro just mute the video
@@frankmay3341 but-but the "immersive" experience will ruin it😢
Just give back the df1 to -3 and he is back. Bamco fundamentally broke DVJ so people will try Reina.
Harada be like: "we might have been too harsh on DVJ.. DEVS, remove his db1+2 from the game immediately"
i do miss his old heatsmash range, a great whiff punish tool that made you feel powerful if the opponent enjoyed throwing out options in the open, allowed you to safely get in to apply pressure while in heat. They nerfed too many things at once but even before the nerfs, he really didnt feel like devil jin so personally ive dropped and main Jin full time with kazuya as my secondary
Yeah feelsbadman, I really hope he gets some deserved buffs in the next patch
When is the next patch?
@@kylekay1800 probably when heihachi drops or sm, not any time soon unfortunately
WE SKEET AGAIN🔫
Also I thought Devil Jin's heat smash being steppable was fine. I thought it wasn't fine when they nerfed the range on it tbh.
Imo it being steppable kills the utility of it because he has nothing to enforce them to block low besides very minus lows
@@altertheunknownhonestly they should've kept range,, yes tracking is probably stronger, but also he is forces in MC on block, and honestly, now the heat smash looks visually bad, it's like he's dragging weights, if they kept range he would still build some pressure, and he can also be safe if they dodge, cause the issue with the smash now being steppable is not whiffing, it's the punishment, you basically give them, anything they wanna do really, they can grab, float you, launch you and do fool combos too.
I miss b21 on sidewall 😢
Kinda funny how if one would make a tier list of each character's strength
lore wise and flipped that shit upside down, they'd get pretty accurate list on
each character's strength game wise
I swear to god part of why they nerfed him was because “he looked overpowered” due to his cool new designs and lasers etc… such a stupid reason for the community to collectively complain about him when the game released
He was overpowered with his old heat smash. I think stuff like bf23 wallsplat was also there before. They just went the fuck overboard nerfing him.
@@sugoi9680 well sure that stuff as well, I’m just saying that a lot of community perception was definitely influenced by DVJ being “scary laser shooting crazy demon man” that lead to a misconception about how broken he was
@@yungbruh666 Maybe. Tbh I don't know what the community thought but I do know he went from Top 5 to bottom 5 with these patches. Which is weird cuz isn't Dj supposed to be strong?
When dvj was overpowered his heat smash was busted. And tekken balancing team an opportunity to cut off devils wings.
@@yungbruh666 DVJ pre patch was S tier and broken. His heatsmash was the best move in the entire game and the mental stack of this fullscreen homing plus on block fast mid was too much and controlled the match flow
How the mighty characters fallen. Devil Jin, Leroy, and Steve? These guys used to be everywhere in tourneys.
and the worst part is devil jin is not a easy character to play
His uf4 usually supposed to knock down enemies, which led to a free demon step pedal.
Day 1 Devil Jin makes a lot of sense now that he's figured out. He's a Devil for Chris's sake.
Also skull crusher (heat smash) should have remain its original range. But remove the tracking properties to make it much viable
This vid does a good job at explaining my problem, they nerfed the basic moves for a new stance, then nerfed the stance, not useless but im just like 'ok'
And in 7 and 8, devil jins role is weird, hes a jack of all trades but sijce everyone is becoming so well rounded hes losing his purpose cuz hes sorta just outclassed in most ways compared to say nina, jin, drag, hell king could prolly be a better devil jin with the crouch dash rework, haha
Only in 7, in 8 he lost his jack of all trades persona, not only that he lost what kind of Mishima he was, the poking good highs and lows Mishima, now he only has good highs, but bad mids and lows, making him a gimmick character, based around mc, while also removing other moves that would've complimented his gimmicks, like the three ring circus and it's upper version, or the fly on block with samsara.
@@mothman566 wont lie i miss old twin lancer the most, and the jab range, honestly they could his mid game by just giving back left splits kick, safe mid launcher
His db2 is fine but hard to compare when jin has db4 and frickin d2, also weird that jins samsaras so awkward to punish when its strong and evasive, i guess cuz its stance but still
Like djins stuck in purgatory where they dont want him to be jack of all trades but also dont wanna commit to any archetype that hard, so hes left as an odd char
@@HELLRAISER02 judging by the nerfs and they're statements, it's like they want to make him an all rounder again, but forgot to actually give him back the tools and moves that made him like that.
if I were to fix him, I would start by making him more similar to story mode, give him Jin's df2 he doesn't need 6 ways to go mc, and his df2 is so bad, fiendish rend is kinda like parting waves, compliments his gameplay, then for heqt give him back the range and not the tracking of the smash, mostly for aesthetic reasons but also to make him safe, give him 1 1 1 and angel Jin's swords as heat moves and make the launching hellsweep heat only but give it back it's range and old damage, make his ff2 go to shackles on block and overall give him better frames, there's no reason for him to be so minus and unsafe when he is not meant to be a defensive character, he still only has 1 power crush, make the df1 followup either a mid or guaranteed on hit, and give him better lows, those are only the basic things he must have to be at least more complete.
Then depending on if they want him to be the all rounder again or stay gimmicky:
For the all rounder, increase 112 range back to the original range, give wallsplat to bf 2 3, make the distance of his U2 shorter to start a combo and make uf 4 work similarly, make 1+2 cancellable again and make CD 1+2 faster, and give an electric or perfect version of cd1 similar to Jin or heihachi.
For gimmicks instead, just give him back his old 50/50s samsara fly on block, his three ring circus and upper, and 3 1 3 to mix up with 3 1 4, and make mc 3 a power crush at least in heat and give it just a bit more tracking or make the hitbox wide like the animation suggests.
@@mothman566 thats a lot of chabges, i doubt theyll do it even tho story mode has the assets, i prefer the all rounder idea but i bet theyll prolly just make him mega gimmick or something, i personally mainly just want mishima left splits kick back, and old twin lancer, plz
@@HELLRAISER02 it's a lot of changes, cause that's how incomplete he is, it's not that he's just bad, it's that he is incomplete he misses too much and after all the nerfs his already small movelist and tools, got even smaller, he got nerfed a lot in t7, but at least he was still a complete character, now he doesn't even have heat anymore.
Damn. Perhaps we been to harsh to Dvj. He was considered a top tier and “the best Mishima” in tekken. Just such a shame how developers have treated him in the last few years 😢
More like the last decade damn near. He was so strong in tag 2 arguable top 2/3. When top 5 season 1 of t7 and hasn’t been shit since. Granted I still kick ass with Devil Jin but you have to be a pure asshole too win with him now
@@lilripstaSSF4hello and good day bro. Even if he is a top character, he tied with the most difficult and demanding execution heavy character that need lots and lots of hour on practice. So even on the past you don't see alot of mishima players. So it kinda just for hardest = strong instead of easy = strong which is the case with drag and alisa among others.
People forget that Devi Jin wasn’t supposed to be playable but fans after tekken 4 wanted his original moveset from 3 to return which was 90% a Kazuya clone
I feel like he could be fixed easily but I don't think developers really want to (not yet). I remember at the start of Tekken 7 people were complaining about Devil Jin being by far the best character since his introduction in T5 and also that since T5 the game feels the same. Tekken 8 was supposed to shake things up but developers got scared by new players complaining about DJ (probably because his moves are so flashy now) so they nerfed him and now we're here. Maybe they'll fix him after the release of Heihachi. Or we'll get Devil Reina as final S1 DLC character and she'll do everything better as she does everything better than all the Mishimas (and Lidia).
Leroy, From Moveset to the 1st trailer reveal music & Solitary warrior instrumental tracks Not being released, No two stages, To his Anime representation, They killed him before he was even released from DLC.
It's a shame bcuz this is the best looking devil jin in years, also got very cool moves too with the mourning crow and stuff. It's just sad that his not that enjoying anymore. Right now he only has good damage, but how can you even get to that point if you have gimmicky tools to begin with.
I think people complained about mourning crow's range 3 oki. That's why they nerfed the tracking of mourning crow 1 so Devil Jin wouldn't be +8 after a knockdown. And then you have the mourning crow mix up in heat which is doing 2,2 or the command grab. Pretty good mixup, but you only die for doing the command grab if your opponent ducks. But you can also be +8 if they aren't trying to jab float you. However, you take damage for doing that too if your opponent is dumb enough to disrespect your mourning crow in heat. Felt like they should've left it alone if this was the design they were going for.
The thing is they also nerfed MC22's tracking because of the ferarri tech (catching enemies techrolling with MC22 after a ws3 as ender). So now, if you outright do MC after 112, MC1 and MC22 whiffs on a techroll, and MC3 can easily be blocked at -7. If you slightly delay your MC, your MC1 and MC22 both can track an enemy techrolling, but every delayed option can be springkicked. It's a pretty ass design that they didn't look into when nerfing the character.
@@hatto Wave Dash at them and use FF2 then.
Beats every option. I personally force them to block MC3 because it's still chip damage.
@@darkmatter21_xxthey nerfed ff2 range and tracking too so you can hardly meaty with it now without being up their ass on oki
@@thejoekage9499 the enemy has no time to Side Step FF2 after getting hit with flash punch. Even if they wake up backwards.
FF~, D, DF, F~2.
Extend a dash into a wave dash (still gets to extend the dash for FF2) has worked every time for me.
dj will be forever my favourite, sad they did him dirty, thats why i regularly go back to ttt2 and t5 :D
7:15 No, I didn't know that. I main Steve, so they essentially made it to where Devil Jin gets hit with a 13 frame Flash from Steve and any other character with a 13 frame CH launcher while it's still hus turn?! That's Tekken 8 for you.
The "gimmick" of it is that you need to read if he's going to do MC 22 or just MC 2, and most people dont wanna risk punishing MC 2 incase they actually did the whole string and eat it.
Which is why i made my own Devil Jin in tekken 8. Search Devil Jin Unchained 😂.
Never forget the doom ringers were crying devil jin was top 5 in tekken 8 and broken and had to be nerfed to the ground. Well the cry babies won for the 2nd game in a row. A character can be top tier AND fair. Its not right to nerf a character just for being good. People just hate dvj for some reason when he has ALWAYS been honest. You cant hate on mishimas when he has to put in twice the work to do most combos that do any real damage.
Yeah plus shouldn't Dj be strong. He's a boss character...
@@sugoi9680 yeah it literally makes sense hes the strongest character lore wise. Nobody is stronger than devil jin
@rurounijay7100 yet hwo has beaten dj by 2 times now XD I think we overthink dj is lorewise a monster while kazuya should be tier 1 and only by that sentence...
@@Revo_66 Well Kazuya is stronger and Hwo is not a pushover either. Dj should still be stronger than like... Azucena.
@@sugoi9680 that's true
TBF the 112 knockdown situation is more a generic buff to how quickly people can get up, but yeah DVJ gets shafted hard in this game
Devil Jin, Leroy and Eddy need some reworks/buffs
He is either top tier or bottom tier is what i noticed
I agree with you with some points, only one thing I cannot agree with you U4 on block was connected in T8 not T7 but they removed it in Patch v1.01
You forgot… dvj had stage break dmg going for him, they decided to nerf the entire mechanic because f*ck dvj
tekken 7 dvj = small tekken
tekken 8 dvj = big tekken and coinflip
They turned dvj into budget kazuya with more expensive coat
I get that he's fhe worst right now. But one thing i understood when the game came out and when people got to use him and was on the receiving end of a DVJ beatdown is that he was already ok, its just that a lot people were complaining how "strong" he was before getting gutted patch after patch. For me honestly he was already ok with thd exception of the busted tracking for the heat smash, everything could have been fine that could have been the only thing removed, but people were still complaining about how his kit works...so now we have this, probably the worst version of DVJ ever
It happened to Eddy and probably gonna happen to Lidia too, except in his case is worse cause he is hard, top 2 hardest character, people complain not cause a character is strong, but cause it's new, people weren't complaining as much about dragunov at first by the way, so now we have broken braindead characters, and 2 soon 3 bad characters, 1 of which is very hard and was at most top 11 at launch, and a character who was also bad on release and a paid dlc and now is basically gone, it's as if Eddy never came out, people should chill and wait, sure if there's a move too broken it might be ok to Nerf immediately,but again, drag had a +7 fast mid with lots of range heat engager that can launch since launch, but no one complained about that till recently.
The main reason why people thought he was op was because of on release MC1, his heat smash, and range of his hellsweep. Those were broken on release and to nerf them the balance team decided to just hard nerf it. You used to have an actual oki with Mc1 after 112 but they nerf how fast mc1 came out and it's tracking, the hell sweep nerf imo was bs I was ok with it's ranged being nerf but they nerf the dmg on it too. It used to do like 45 with the regular and now it only does 35. It just that he kept receiving nerfs every patch.
@@kaysonlee1031 those were mainly was broken about him but was badly nerfed since the behavior after the nerf was dumbfounding to say the least. Honestly if the balance team were to nerf DVJ by collecting data after a few short months they would have properly nerfed DVJ properly without making him too useless. Cause one thing to remember he's already a mishima character, which most of us know has a very high skill ceiling to reach, well each mishima respectively, but also has that unique style that sets each mishima or mishima archtype character apart from each other. Now it feels like instead of worrying about fighting the opponent, its like fighting the opponent in front of you and the character you're using at the same time
He needs some buffs!
Devil Jin was only created for the people who preferred Jin's TEKKEN 3 moveset anyway
Which was basically 90% Kazuya replacement with little of Jun’s moves. Kazuya’s return was the only excuse they changed Jin’s gameplay to be different and they fitted into the narrative then.
@@Alexandrosvls okay
I think it's worth mentioning that MC 2 on Hit and on CH is -5. We can't even get some plus frames trying to play a little bit more safe. No, they really want us to gamble our life with MC 1 or MC 2,2.
Also, even after a ws+1,2 or d/f+2 on hit into MC, the opponent can still step or jab us out of MC. This stance is full of flaws.
He has his days
Someone remember TMM talking about how was broken DVJ and how was good his kit😂😂
He made a video talking about why Kazuya is better lol
@@ThályssonSilvaW dont worry tomorrow,kazuya Will be bad and the day After tomorrow he Will be good again
They did my main dirty
I see... Paying for the sins of Tekken 7
Make U/f4 knock down in heat, reduce 1, 1, 2's launch distance, give MC stance a stance cancel for potential mixups, and give him a decent 15 frame launcher from crouch, even if it's only in heat. It feels like they definitely wanted to make this character benefit most from the heat mechanic so at least let him be a high tier during heat at the very least.
I miss that you could mix the DF1,2 extension with F2,4, I really liked it, you can do a similar thing with Bryan, but it's not as good.
Another giganerf they gave DVJ was his d2 omg they nerfed tf out of it in t7, but then they gave it to regular jin instead. It used to be a counter hit launcher but now all dvj gets in t8 is just like b4 guaranteed hit and that it like wtf does the balancing team be thinking when it comes to dvj
Such a shame cus they finally give him a nice designed skin instead of the travesty that's his skin in tekken 7
Ah. So everything that made him kind of good in the previous game, they removed or nerfed. Got it
My dude, my friend, mi amigo, WHAT ARE YOU DOING.
Harada just saw your thumbnail and decided to nerf-nerf-nerf Devil Jin again :(
(According to the leaks, his df1 is now i16, Hellsweep launches DJ on hit, 1,1,2 is NCC and doesn't knock down, Mourning Crow 3 deals 24 damage to the user, and -only his- electric is now mid, but launch punishable on hit. Btw, Drag's qcf4 is homing and Jin's 2,1,4 launches on block.)
wut? where did you get this info?
@@SrKimori he saw it from the prophecy foretold by god
Source: trust me bro
No its actually Dragunov who is been treated unfairly
Hes unique tho its cool
I agree he should be buffed but cd 1+2 in heat being faster would be broken. A fast mid homing +2 natural launcher is super dumb.
CD1+2 isn’t + on block what are you even talking about
@@FlowingEdge- It is but with pushback
They brought Devil Jin to the Tekken 8 main roster but at what cost?
so he got the paul treatment
I agree with everything except the heat smash changes. Please leave the heat smash as is 😭
what the omni crushing across the whole screen heatsmash, making everyone forced to hold b for the entire time dvj heat was up wasnt a great experience? how come? :o (irony off)
it should've only removed one of the 2 properties, i think the range couldve stayed and remove tracking completely cause he has cd1+2 for that
BUFF DEVIL JIN back to like it was in January!!!!
A move with an animation that goes in a straight direction that hits a sidestepping opponent really loses the 3D aspect of its combat. Only moves with animations that have circular movements should hit sidestepping opponents, whether it's one side or both sides.
maybe they really f**ked him up but bro he was OP in 1.3 version but they should not have treat him like that tbh
I'm honestly glad they nerfed the heat smash range so heavily, but the rest was a bit unnecessary.
Buff this man lol
The idea they had behind changing 112 the way they did was... To enable mourning crow mixup after.
You're meant to mourninh crow after landing a 112 in the open apparently.
it doesnt work anymore
@@fuyukukan awesome,well fuck that then
Panda, D.jin, Lars will always be low tier. Namco doesn't want to buff this chars.
That's why I hate Namco, greedy for money
That's why it's better to play Dragonov.
Ngl i like how dvj is now. I just want his genrics back from t7. He is built for playing defensive but got not defensive tools.
Playing defensive... In Tekken 8 with cheap damage and heat. Tekken 8 was built in mind with aggression as main tool...
If that is the case they failed with dvj lol. My man cries when people get within him personal bubble lol.
He is the best
1:35 true but i think it is important to note that he has the best tracking 112 out of the mishimas
Too bad 112 got the Nerf range for both kaz and dvj, and gave the range all to reina, it's like giving someone better shoes to run, while also breaking they're legs, unfortunately 112 is bad, even if he has better tracking, especially when they nerfed the frames on it and also increased the distance.
112 doesn't track that well in real matches, It does but like it's useful in like...2 of 10 matches??? Also 11 * 2 is interruptible before the 2 cause it's was to damn good that dj had a string that's not interruptible since the 1st move xd
14hit 71dmg 🤧
Despite him being low tier on paper Sorry I’m not enjoying playing against some Mortal combat aah character who flies around and gets you everywhere and always gets oki for no reason. Him and Alisa are absolutely annoying to fight against except Alisa is actually S tier on paper
He’s still not bottom 3
I honestly don't get why they brought him back. You gave jin some of his moves and made him unnecessarily strong, then you gutted the fuck out of dvj after you went out of your way to bring him back. At this point he would have been better off having not been added to the game.
Not really unfairly he has been a meta for 20 years
Genuinely
No character as difficult to pilot as Devil Jin should ever be weak. I don't care how consistently he's been super-strong in the past. The same applies to Steve. Characters that have stringent execution demands and/or a complex game plan (Steve and Devil Jin have both) should never be garbage-tier.
Now, whether Devil Jin should always be top 5 is a different matter.
This is my first tekken so why should that affect me? Lol
some of these changes are reasonable tho. Like the DF2 change is reasonable since they are trying to stay away from a lot of chars having safe mid ch launchers like they did in t7. They took that away from a lot of chars except the ones who specialize with that kind of thing minus Steve.
The problem I have is that they were explaining that they were trying to reduce the amount of ppl that have a counter hit launcher in tekken 8 but here we are
Ye but why make df2 so bad? They could've gave him fiendish rend, a move he has in story mode, but instead gave him a df2 that is useless, all it does is go mc on hit, and only guarantees a follow up on counterhit so you often get punished, and what's worse is that he already had 5 other better ways to go mc, he doesn't need a sixth useless one, with fiendish rend he would kinda get a t3 or t5 move back, and have another way to go CD, and maybe make that CD 1+2 actually useful
Such a shame of development of this character
0:40 now they’ve taken this damage from cd1:(
Devil jin deserves every single patch and should deserve more. Reaching you across the map with his moves. Launching hellsweep for wall or floor break. And whatever he does, he somehow gets oki.
Did you watch the videos with your eyes closer? You can literally sidestep him while he reaches out from across the screen and hit him with a full combo, he is dogwater
You can also just jab him💀
he sucks to fight against already so i'm horrified to think how he'd play with buffs
All DJ players are try hards that is why
He sucks to fight against because us DVJ players have to constantly play at our absolute best to even compete with some of these braindead power crept freaks on the roster
Bhai ab bhul gai back 1 n 2 ab wall pr dore SA ni chpkata
As a DVJ main,
1,1,2 always leaves the enemy close enough to force them into having to block F3,3.
Always will reach them and force them into blocking or getting hit on the ground. Also 1,1,2 has way more reach than it ever has. Its the furthest reaching flash punch in tekken history, Edit: I mean the last hit, which it does, reach all the way across the stage.
112 has horrible range, because his jab is awful. It doesn’t matter the last hit can reach far if the first hit whiffs.
you can force them to block mc3... now what, you just gave up your turn for zero mixup.
Fake dvj main lol
@@Alsry1 Flash Punch is + enough to run down the enemy regardless.
I have no issues with DVJs jab reach either.
My Prowess is 225,000
Then again, I watch Qudans play, so I actually know what I'm doing.
Also the 2, in 1,1,2,
Reaches across the stage, is what I meant.
Which means it can be used to turtle.
1,1,2 rush down works every time for me.
@@darkmatter21_xx ain't no way bro thinks 225k prowess is high. I be playing against 310k prowess GoD dvjs. finishing 112 is stupid, I don't know why i gotta tell you that.
There's some 260k prowess players that don't even know how to play the game.
@@Alsry1 Never said it was high. The "best USA DVJ" in ranked is some 270,000.
Qudans is at 400,000.
I'm still ranking up. I'll easily be at 300,000 way before I reach my skill limit.
Beside his garbage heat, crow 22 too much big punishment, ff2 garbage range everything is fine
devil jin isn't that bad, it's just the average power level is way too high. Everyone knew that in T7 but people seem to forget that because T8 is a new game with more confusing mechanics. There are some unnecessary nerfs but they pale in comparison to the amount of silly buffs
The music is really annoying
Dvj is strong. Just not as strong as the rest of the cast. Instead of buffing DVJ, I think everyone needs to be nerfed down to his level imo. He's the ideal power level for a balanced gameplay i feel.
the main problem is that he's lost his identity, I really wouldn't care if he was weak if his pokes were still good..
gimmick characters are supposed to be trash
Yoshi?
@@mh--jz8rv well he will get nerfed back to his t7 state
Alisa and Xiaoyu are fully gimmick characters and somehow they are S tiers. Not in this game bro
I disagree on the heat smash tracking, it had to go away, on pre-patch dvj when he had heat active you literally couldnt move and was forced to only hold back or duck.
See now this is why people cant be upset for what they asked for. Devil Jin was amazing in tekken 7 but slowly over time he got tuned to be worse and worse. Same thing with Steve in tekken 7. Steve is better than devil jin but because the community complained harada listened. Now hes garbage but thats what everyone wanted. So i blame the community for that. Azucena was good now shes not. Everyone is saying nerf dragunov and when he gets the nerfs they are gonna cry and say oh well he sucks. If you ask for nerfs you'll get them byt you cant complain about them after the fact. Im not saying mwkan is complaining. Im saying that the community was upset that he was so good like other characters and they got tuned down. Now that they suck they want better buffs for the character now. So i agree with buffing devil jin. Crow stance is unsafe which makes it no point to use basically. Im more annoyed at the dumbass people asking for useless nerfs on characters. Learn the matchup and do your homework. If anything the character that should be nerfed is like king. Too much damage, pokes are minimally risky. Power crush 3 only being minus 10 on block should be more like minus 14. But since people complained so mucb he got nerfed so bad. Its ok to nerf a few things. But make the character unplayable? Thats the communitys fault for constantly complaining about a character. Some moves are always too strong and can be changed but after that quit complaining.
Yes but honestly it feels nice to have a tekken where devil jin is not top tier😂
Agreed
T7 lasted almost a decade, also dvj is hard as hell, even when he was good, it was a nightmare to make him work.
@@mothman566 true but that doesn't mean he wasn't a piece of shit to fight, although i would take the broken but hard devil jin instead of the just broken jin.
@@jojofan2551 ye but no one wants him to be broken, but to be rewarded for they're effort, cause being hard is already a big disadvantage,being easy is an advantage though, why do you think very few people complain about bears? They suck but they are easy you so the difficulty reward balance is there, dvj now is basically a bad character who's also hard, meanwhile braindead drag is top 1 with 4 moves
@@mothman566 oh no i 100% agree that he needs buffs it's just that it's very funny to see devil jin of all characters be a bottom tier
Mind you devil jin has more combo damage output than zafina…. He’s not the worst character. His damage and wall carry is way better than hers. He’s difficult to play because he has to rely on a hellsweeps for momentum which is death . However he does have his unblockable grab and gets over 75 damage or more far better provided you master electrics and his fully charged Jamba spear breaks guard and is extremely hard to step and has insane range…. Zafina doesn’t have any of that.
Sure zaf doesn't have that, but she doesn't need any of that. Those moves you mentioned about dj are very gimmicky. db1+2 is only really good when they are next to wall, and his unblockable grab is only accessible in heat and depletes his entire heat gage. Not to mention all these moves require lots of conditioning of your opponent. Zaf has great access to her win conditions with her amazing pokes and pressure. She doesnt have much combo output because she can literally kill you without doing combos at all. Her moves are just that good. So why compare the 2?
@@bokossu Zafina lost many of her counter hit pokes and had to take her life for all her powers. Her pokes got gutted along with her nuetral b1+2. He can access his abilities without his health depleting. In a high level match you really have to be aware of how much health you’re using because every little bit counts.
No doubt he's worse than he used to be, but he used to be crazy in T7. A bunch of the stuff you put in the video is fucking crazy good, of course he needed to be toned down. He had every tool anyone needs combined with the best wall combo in the game and the best panic tools. Even after the nerf he was far from one of the worst characters in the game, people just reacted that way because he was no longer straight OP.
He's still a good character. He has great pokes, he's extremely versatile, good damage, big range on mourning crow etc. You can't play him like you used to and that's ok. They've altered his playstyle a bit. Use his other hellsweep extension to decimate the enemies grey health, being one of the biggest true damage lows in the game. He's not bad, not bad at all. DJ players just need to adapt.
If you think DVJ is not good, just drop the game and go play something else honestly. Yall just hop on popular people saying he is bad and actually believe it, same garbage happening with Ryu in SF6 people saying he is bad till 1 person wins a tournament with the character and suddenly they are A tier. Tired of this clownsy fanbases of not actually trying to get good especially in a game that is not even 1 years old.
So momo dog literally one of the best players and the best devil jin player has no idea what he is talking about ? And plenty of other pros as well ? He'll even mainman came out and said he's by far the worst mishimas and is low tier.