I also spoke with Mr. Lebessis, who clarified that he had his disclosure and trial notes--everything he needed to run the trial. What he didn't have was his procedural history/file notes on steps taken/etc.
Thanks, that’s a good clarification. I wish him the best. Demanding an answer then snapping at someone for “interrupting” when they try to follow your instruction is an abuse of power. That was bullying. Please tell us about it if you attend.
@@henrysmith180If he doesn't appear, given that he has been ordered to do so, it is likely that an arrest warrant will be issued, at which time he will be dragged in front of the judge. Thus, one way or another, he will be going back into the building.
@@carolynv8979 Yeah. As soon as the judge demanded "yes or no" where the proper answer is "it's complicated" I could tell this wasn't going to go anywhere good. Also, I wonder if you would get in trouble for, after being told to not interrupt, waiting till the judge has stopped talking for a 2-3 count before answering?
He was in a no win situation. I hope that whispers make their way to the bench, and on November 22nd the Court choses to give the grace that he should have given in the first place. The defendant, the Crown, Defense Counsel, and the Court have been through enough stress this week. Non is needed in the future.
This is how the transcript sounded to me. J: Are you saying on the record that the Crown promised they'd issue the subpoena for you? L: Sir, I don't have my notes, can I have a moment to check? J: No. Answer me now. L: Well the Crown has a note confirming... J: No, I want YOUR answer. L: I... J: Shut up! Answer me! L: I don't.... J: Stop interrupting me! L: .... J: Answer me! L: I need a moment to.... J: Stop interrupting me! Answer me or I'll lock you up! L: Lock me up then. J: No! L: ..... J: Answer me! L: I.... J: Lock him up! C: So we checked, and L was told we'd issue the subpoena, but it wasn't sent. Our bad. J: J: L, you told me you'd rather go into custody than answer my question. L: No, I... J: Shut up! That's what you said. You could have said you don't know, but you didn't. That's what I recall. You can respond to that if you want, but I'd rather you didn't. L: I would like to respond if you'd just let me. J: Fine. L: I said I wasn't sure and needed a moment to check. You wouldn't let me check. J: That's not how it happened. L: .... J: .... L: ....
Or, in other words. Judge: “Say something that gives me an excuse to jail you, please.” Mr Lebessis: “Respectfully, I’d really rather n’. . .” Judge: “Lock him up!” Mr Lebessis: “WTF?”
@@blackdeath4eternityno judge in Canada is impartial. The judges, crown attorney, court clerks and everything are hired by the Attorney general and paid by the Attorney general. They're all on the same team and they're all working toward the same goal of 85 to 90% conviction rate, no matter if you're guilty or not
Runkle, plz plz follow up on this. I'm very invested now. What's going on with all these judges wilding out in both countries!?? Is this more common than the public is aware?
I expect some chicanery from the legislative branch, the executive branch of government; nice if they dial it back from 11. Very disconcerting if this blight has infected the judicial branch.
The judge has primary responsibility for the decorum in his courtroom. "Don't interrupt me. Let me finish my question, then you may respond," is completely acceptable. Talking over the response, refusing to allow an explanation when the answer isn't a simple yes or no, and then escalating like a toddler having a tantrum over not getting candy? Completely unacceptable.
This Judge should be required to take a remedial judicial ethics course. Specifically, the sections on integrity (improper/unprofessional conduct) and impartiality (judicial demeanor).
Canadian judges have no mandatory retirement or cognitive testing at any point. There are for sure many judges still working who have obvious cognitive decline.
Agree but the world is imperfect, this sort of thing is bound to happen, for as little reason as a bout of insomnia or some indigestion. But, if their judgement is good in general, they should soon realize the mistake and correct it, but I doubt that happens.
The judge did. But the lawyer could have just said "yes." Worst case scenario if he's wrong, it turns into a he-said/he-said and the judge might still believe him.
People like this judge, and certain cops and prosecutors are the exact reason people don’t trust “the system.” I guess the rules about impropriety and the appearance of impropriety are just there to look pretty on a page.
That's crazy! What difference does it make whether or not Lebessis recalled the Crown saying it, when the Crown had admitted to saying it!? The demented judge wanted to harass him over nothing, and that was completely improper.
The judge was too invested in the view of his own colon to simply extract his head and say, "Okay. I didn't understand and I'm very sorry. Let's start over." Instead, he tried to gaslight everyone with this lame attempt to justify himself.
After 5 minutes of silence with the judge waiting, " don't want to intrerrupt you again your honor I am waiting for you to indicate you are finished talking and ready to listen to what I have to without interrupting ne???"
Reminds me of a magistrate our firm ran into about 30 years ago. I was a very junior associate writing a brief in opposition to a motion - opposing counsel's brief in support of their motion was just bad work - the cases didn't support the position, which was simply abusive of the process to begin with - it wasn't a matter of interpretation, it was obvious. I wrote a polite, careful, brief in opposition and sent it to the trial attorney, who approved, and then submitted it. The magistrate, not only granted the motion, but sanctioned us $1800 for filing a brief in opposition - and finished his ruling with "Happy Hanukkah". We appealed, got that reversed, and got that magistrate off the case, but YIPES!
This wasn’t fair the judge jumped to conclusions and trying to pigeon hole him into judge version of events also not fair. But honestly I don’t see this as something could get a judge removed for like ppl are texting
I saw a BC Supreme Court Judge order the court clerk to back up the transcript to the beginning of a cross examination in order to destroy evidence of a defendant being caught dead to rights perjuring himself... and yes, the material fact he was caught lying about was the one the case basically hinged on. There is no question the judge was doing what he had to do in order to rule in favor of the insurance company representing the defendant.
The judge had an inexcusable amount of prejudice. I would be afraid that my presence at the trial would predjudice my client at that point. What a dick judge!
I think him asking for a mistrial based on that was fair. Idk if he didn’t have access to his client at the time but he should have attempted to communicate with him. Otherwise I feel sorry for defense, he felt like a no win situation here and a little beaten up.
I have strong opinions about abuse of power, especially by judges, that TH-cam probably won't like if I put here. So instead I will just wish Mr. Lebessis luck and pray he comes out of this okay
@@williamp6800 I don't disagree.....I was pointing out the apparent power imbalance between the judge and the lawyer....that was displayed in this video. The lawyer can have a great day and the client still goes to jail.
I was the client in a disability appeal hearing. Unlike Mr. Lebesis, my attorney was totally unprepared. By the time the Judge finished dressing my lawyer down, I was in tears and voluntarily withdrew my appeal. I think attorneys and judges forget that defendants are completely out of their element and terribly vulnerable and don't deserve to see their future hanging on the threads of a personal pissing contest, no matter who is at fault. Judges who behave like petit tyrants and lawyers who treat clients' lives as cases they can walk away from because they had a bad day should be ashamed.
As a former Prosecutor I have run into good and not so good judges with a fair share of similar confrontations that Mr. Lebessis had. The subpoena issue should have been resolved before court convened. However the judge should not have ordered Mr. Lebessis into custody and a Judicial complaint should be made in light of that.
Will a judicial complaint do anything tho? I doubt it very much. As someone outside of the justice system, I see that the corruption and abuse goes unchecked. Which explains WHY there is corruption and abuse.
Ha, the odds of the Judicial Council actually making a negative finding against a judge is remote at best. The Judicial Council are a collection of sycophant's who have no telephone and NO address, its just a postal code in Ottawa Canada is riddled with politically appointed Judges who make political decisions and put wrongfully convicted in jail to retaliate for even mentioning Judicial Misconduct and or Police Obstruction of Justice.
I am starting to understand why we've had so many egregious wrongful convictions in this country. We have no way of holding judges accountable for unprofessional behaviour. The judge should be fired.
to me it sounds like the Judge was out for the Lawyer. after all it would have taken less time. If the judge gave the Lawyer the time to clear out the missunderstanding.
I've been there. I'm not a lawyer, but I had the worst day at work, where I experienced horrendous treatment from my boss, and I left and then quit. I wasn't put in jail, but I was incredibly shaken, and at a moment where compassion was needed, I received dismissiveness. I think there's a different level of responsibility when you are a defense attorney and your client needs you, but in every other respect I support Mr. Lebessis.
Mr. Lebessis should not have left the building. That will bite him later. It’s highly likely that none of this would have occurred had the judge been a little less “judgy”.
I agree 100% that he shouldn't have, but I know I personally would be rage crying and swearing a blue streak at this point. I can't fault him for needing to breathe and get away from the abuse. I hope it's not held against him too much, but we all know it will be
I would have probably been held in contempt much earlier after suggesting to the judge he should have his morning coffee, but I guess that's why I'm not a lawyer 😅.
17:44 "You can tell me if you think that things are being described accurately, because I don't." The impression that I got was that he was not being asked "Do you recall Mr. Ellis telling you that he would subpoena the witness?" but *"DID Mr. Ellis tell you that he would subpoena the witness?"* He didn't have absolute certainty, and he was told in so many words that the only acceptable answers were Yes or No. Later, the judge tried to say, "You could have said 'I don't know' or 'I don't recall,' but at the time, those options were not in front of him... in fact, the judge explicitly said they were unacceptable. Given all that, it makes absolute sense that he wouldn't be willing to be pinned down to an absolute Yes or No, when he didn't remember for sure and the judge was basically asking him to go on the record as if he were a witness under oath. Then he went and completely blew up his own situation by leaving the building; and frankly, that's when he most my sympathy. I grew up in a family of lawyers, and while I genuinely believe that this defense counsel was getting a very raw deal from the judge, he had an obligation to his client not to just leave, right before trial. Ask for a mistrial? Sure. Ask to be removed and replaced as counsel of record? Sure. Ask the prosecutors to drop the case because the original missing witness was their fault? Absolutely. But you don't just walk out of the building and announce that you're never going back. That not only torpedoes your career -- and I'm not sure he'll get it back after that one -- but it torpedoes your client's case. And since this is a criminal charge, you're playing with somebody's life and freedom if you walk out and torpedo your client's case.
I'm of the opinion the judge needed to chill out and allow him a few minutes to figure out what happened. American lawyer here but wow, I would not be happy if that was my judge. I understand he messed up by not bringing his file but when someone is asking for a few minutes to figure something out, you give them that time if it isn't something that absolutely needs to be handled that minute. I know I've had issues with clients and asked for a little time or stepped up on behalf of one of the other attorneys from my office when needed. Just asking for a couple minutes to check the e-file isn't something horrible.
I can’t count the number of times I have successfully objected to counsel demanding a yes or no answer. Completely inappropriate for a judge to pose such a question and repeatedly at that. Is there a history between these two? Or antipathy towards Edmonton counsel?
Sounds like the judge was already irked by something and took it out on Mr Lebessis. That really sucked. I don't blame him for walking out it just seemed like he was stuck in a situation where it would be hard to remain professional. The judge seemed hell bent on twisting things or would not have allowed him a chance to speak.
I think the judge was heavy handed for no reason; he was having a bad day and then tried to take it out on other people. Frustrating situation for the defense.
@benjaminshropshire2900 bro i dont even know. i dont think ive ever heard of it happening. the news companies here wont touch the topic of corrupt judges with a ten foot pole, unless theres so much evidence its impossible to ignore. But we cant see the evidence because press isnt allowed in our courtrooms 90% of the time. I swear most of them have to be being blackmailed because some of their judgements literally border on treason in an intentionally country-destroying way. A judge gave a drunk driving woman here, who killed two 18 year old boys in 2012, a 16 month sentence (out after 9). And other judges throw out blatant police misconduct accusations, allowing those poloce to continue being bullies to their communities. its insane
It has always been my understanding that because judges are sitting at a higher level they are supposed to be held to a higher standard. I don't know this judge and have never met him but he sounds like a jackass. If this is his normal behaviour he should be removed from the bench. My moody 16 year old son does better than this on his worst days
That's a huge toxicity at work, many workers in any other place would have resign for such activity. Like, idk, you work in a supermarket, you boss get upset and don't give you time to find a note, an interrupt you when you try to respond his question, then says "sent him 10 min to the fridge room", HECK YEAH, YOU LEAVE, contract or not, even though you should sign a paper to say "I resign this job". I rather have a worker leaving the place, not in the good formal way, than having him be crushed by the boss, to end up being verbally furious or gross. Sometime, "fleeing" is a good option. (yeah, I'm really French, I guess 😅😂)
The Judge handled this poorly. The Judge really neess to do the right thing own his behavior and apologize. The Judge set the tone for things to go south.
My after the fact two cents... I think every defence attorney for 50 miles not in court should be in that courtroom Friday morning. Each one of them making eye contact with the judge. This is clearly a mental break due to bullying by the judge. Perhaps a committee needs to look at him in this case.
The court has brought itself into contempt and disrepute. That judge needs to be removed until an investigation is concluded regarding its conduct. Please report that judge to the whatever equivalent to the BAR for judges in canada is.
The judge has NO patience, it is his job to listen to the arguments, and to allow the lawyers as much time as they need to put their cases. In my opinion, because he has no patience, he should not be a judge.
What an absolute shambles on the judge's side. Don't know if he's usually snappy or not, but he sure should have checked his sugar levels early in the morning. Good on the prosecution for stepping in and clearing the misunderstanding. I feel simpathy for Mr. Lebessis. Had the judge behaved differently after adjourning the Court, maybe he would have stayed. Instead, he got a second and very unnecessary confrontation. Of course he's not coming back. To Hell with the judge, I'd say. This sort of things has happened to me - not in a Court, mind you - and the usual outcome is, I either walk away and never come back; or I go back in, cold as ice, and try to fix the situation by any means necessary. Even if it includes dissing a superior for giving me a non-deserved rap about something beyond my control. Anyway. I just hope lawyers will show up in strength this next friday to support Mr. Lebessis. Thanks for sharing, Runkle. Cheers,
I think the judge was out of order. Demanding a "yes" or "no" when the answer is, "I think so," is unreasonable. George made a mistake and the Judge should have called him on that instead of trying to make answer a question which could have been inaccurate.
The judge sounds like he got in an argument with his wife that morning and was just looking for any excuse to start a fight with someone. That guy just happened to walk into his sights. What an asshole.
The "issue" is the Judge is obstructing justice by failing to allow the defence to subpoena a witness. The reality is Police and Crown will "hide" a witness. That includes scheduling leave, telling the cop to go on leave, and then when trial resumes it happens again. If you are lucky, the cop will suddenly show up at trial and then minutes before examination, you get a copy of his "hand written notes" that the Police failed to provide for the last year. That means you don't have time to examine the disclosure. Each time they do that, you find incriminating evidence. Then the Crown and the Judge cover it up and wrongfully convict the accused who goes to jail never to be given a lawyer until shortly before the release date.
@@PRWelke I understand that, however here in BC, it would be the AG (unless supreme court) as they oversee the entire system. For Supreme Court it would be the Federal AG. Judges are to uphold the law and not to be above it.
Ive seen controlling and abuse of power by judges on numerous occasions, their emotions are triggered and the law goes out the window. It can be a lottery. But, agree this case appears unsound.
This judge needs a LONG vacation and needs some training on how to have a normal respectful exchange. Truthfully, he abused his power, he's a bully and needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY.
Lawyers are people too. Mental health and well-being is a thing regardless of profession, and that sort of unprovoked behavior from a judge is not something anyone's prepared to deal with. Him leaving like that seems like a mental health emergency to me.
What are the steps to file a complaint against a judge and what are even the consequences? If judges knows no one will judge them, why will they care.. Not to mention, as it happens so many times in history, if people can't get legal justice against justice, they will seek natural justice.
@@Korrin1 Do they have the power to either remove a judge from the bench completely? Do they have the power to remove the judge from the case? No If a judge refuse to recuse himself and later found out on a appeal that violated charter right for due process that he or she didn't, tax payer will have to set the bill, not the judge out of pocket. No real powers. In the US, at least, there is checks in terms of elections - they are elected only by public officials, and with the exception of the SOCTUS, can be removed accordingly, and usually for criminal offences the FBI steps in, which mean federal prison, which mean problem will be solved by the inmates
I have also seen crown and defense dance for 8 hours and accomplish nothing only to ask for an adjournment. Then the judge loses it because what were they doing the whole time!
My opinion only. The judge immediately from the very beginning appeared very biased / prejudicial against this lawyer. He had an absolute hard-on towards Mr. Lebessis.
From my perspective, I think the judge was WAY harsh. This in my opinion was not the time or place to play hardball. Granted, perhaps Mr L shouldn’t have grabbed his proverbial bat & ball then left, but the way he was treated? It leaves me wondering if he perhaps has been treated poorly previously. Either way that would rattle me also and I’d likely be outa there too… that would scare me half to death. This was so interesting. 👍
I don’t know Canadian law, but I CAN recognise a wholly unprofessional, condescending jagoff when I hear one. This judge is one of those, and I would be FURIOUS if someone I worked with acted like this. SHAMEFUL.
I was having so much deja vu through this video. I feel like a lot of teachers treated me this way when I was a child. I also had a girlfriend that did this schtick where she'd ask a question, and interrupt and insist on yes or no when neither were appropriate. My mother often interrupted, and she would get very upset if anyone ever tried to say anything when she was talking. I also had a couple of managers do this in the past. It's been a long time since I dealt with this stuff, but it's definitely one of the worst ways that a person can be rude, especially while weilding a lot of power.
I also spoke with Mr. Lebessis, who clarified that he had his disclosure and trial notes--everything he needed to run the trial. What he didn't have was his procedural history/file notes on steps taken/etc.
Is he going to go back into the building?
Thanks, that’s a good clarification. I wish him the best. Demanding an answer then snapping at someone for “interrupting” when they try to follow your instruction is an abuse of power. That was bullying. Please tell us about it if you attend.
@@henrysmith180If he doesn't appear, given that he has been ordered to do so, it is likely that an arrest warrant will be issued, at which time he will be dragged in front of the judge. Thus, one way or another, he will be going back into the building.
@@carolynv8979 Yeah. As soon as the judge demanded "yes or no" where the proper answer is "it's complicated" I could tell this wasn't going to go anywhere good.
Also, I wonder if you would get in trouble for, after being told to not interrupt, waiting till the judge has stopped talking for a 2-3 count before answering?
He was in a no win situation. I hope that whispers make their way to the bench, and on November 22nd the Court choses to give the grace that he should have given in the first place.
The defendant, the Crown, Defense Counsel, and the Court have been through enough stress this week. Non is needed in the future.
This is how the transcript sounded to me.
J: Are you saying on the record that the Crown promised they'd issue the subpoena for you?
L: Sir, I don't have my notes, can I have a moment to check?
J: No. Answer me now.
L: Well the Crown has a note confirming...
J: No, I want YOUR answer.
L: I...
J: Shut up! Answer me!
L: I don't....
J: Stop interrupting me!
L: ....
J: Answer me!
L: I need a moment to....
J: Stop interrupting me! Answer me or I'll lock you up!
L: Lock me up then.
J: No!
L: .....
J: Answer me!
L: I....
J: Lock him up!
C: So we checked, and L was told we'd issue the subpoena, but it wasn't sent. Our bad.
J:
J: L, you told me you'd rather go into custody than answer my question.
L: No, I...
J: Shut up! That's what you said. You could have said you don't know, but you didn't. That's what I recall. You can respond to that if you want, but I'd rather you didn't.
L: I would like to respond if you'd just let me.
J: Fine.
L: I said I wasn't sure and needed a moment to check. You wouldn't let me check.
J: That's not how it happened.
L: ....
J: ....
L: ....
yup... the judge obviously is not impartial & should be removed from the case.
Accurate AF
Or, in other words.
Judge: “Say something that gives me an excuse to jail you, please.”
Mr Lebessis: “Respectfully, I’d really rather n’. . .”
Judge: “Lock him up!”
Mr Lebessis: “WTF?”
@@blackdeath4eternityno judge in Canada is impartial. The judges, crown attorney, court clerks and everything are hired by the Attorney general and paid by the Attorney general. They're all on the same team and they're all working toward the same goal of 85 to 90% conviction rate, no matter if you're guilty or not
Good Call
Runkle, plz plz follow up on this. I'm very invested now. What's going on with all these judges wilding out in both countries!?? Is this more common than the public is aware?
yeah.... i hope these judges are getting reprimanded... else its no wonder things are falling apart.
I expect some chicanery from the legislative branch, the executive branch of government; nice if they dial it back from 11. Very disconcerting if this blight has infected the judicial branch.
Yes, I really want to know what happens on the 22nd.
This judge's ego needs to be knocked down a peg. This is a ridiculous overreaction
The judge has primary responsibility for the decorum in his courtroom.
"Don't interrupt me. Let me finish my question, then you may respond," is completely acceptable.
Talking over the response, refusing to allow an explanation when the answer isn't a simple yes or no, and then escalating like a toddler having a tantrum over not getting candy? Completely unacceptable.
The judge might've gotten an answer had he kept his trap shut long enough to listen. His gaslighting the lawyer was also unacceptable.
Judge needs a Snickers bar.
maybe 2
Or a hug from Betty White. RIP 😢
Maybe he should've taken a Kit Kat
@@ealusaidNah, he's snapped enough for one day.
This Judge should be required to take a remedial judicial ethics course. Specifically, the sections on integrity (improper/unprofessional conduct) and impartiality (judicial demeanor).
Canadian judges have no mandatory retirement or cognitive testing at any point.
There are for sure many judges still working who have obvious cognitive decline.
The judge humiliated himself with his impatience and possibly false assumptions
I think the judge abused his power. Lawyers trying to represent a client to the best of their ability shouldn't have to fear the judge.
Agree but the world is imperfect, this sort of thing is bound to happen, for as little reason as a bout of insomnia or some indigestion. But, if their judgement is good in general, they should soon realize the mistake and correct it, but I doubt that happens.
@@DoveringFifths That's true, but not relevant.
The judge did. But the lawyer could have just said "yes." Worst case scenario if he's wrong, it turns into a he-said/he-said and the judge might still believe him.
People like this judge, and certain cops and prosecutors are the exact reason people don’t trust “the system.” I guess the rules about impropriety and the appearance of impropriety are just there to look pretty on a page.
Same with doctors and the medical system.
Yeah, it’s there to be said out loud so that they can look good while saying it….and never really following it
That judge needs a time out. I feel for the poor attorney who deserved better.
And maybe a nap and some goldfish crackers too.
That's crazy! What difference does it make whether or not Lebessis recalled the Crown saying it, when the Crown had admitted to saying it!? The demented judge wanted to harass him over nothing, and that was completely improper.
The judge was too invested in the view of his own colon to simply extract his head and say, "Okay. I didn't understand and I'm very sorry. Let's start over." Instead, he tried to gaslight everyone with this lame attempt to justify himself.
It seems to me that the judge's manner made what should have been an administrative matter into a stupid mess
After 5 minutes of silence with the judge waiting, " don't want to intrerrupt you again your honor I am waiting for you to indicate you are finished talking and ready to listen to what I have to without interrupting ne???"
I wonder how the judge is going to react having this transcript read back to him.
I probably would have earned a full 30 days of hospitality. "What about my uttering a complete sentence so terrifies the Court?"
Can a judge be held accountable for acting like a giant toddler?
😂 I would vote for that, yup.
I think defense counsel can file a complaint with the BAR association and get a review of the Judge's behavior
Only through extra judicial means
@@waylonk2453 and no practicing lawyer is going to file a complaint if it’s possible that they will be in front of that judge again.
Yes. There is a judicial council which considers complaints.
Reminds me of a magistrate our firm ran into about 30 years ago. I was a very junior associate writing a brief in opposition to a motion - opposing counsel's brief in support of their motion was just bad work - the cases didn't support the position, which was simply abusive of the process to begin with - it wasn't a matter of interpretation, it was obvious. I wrote a polite, careful, brief in opposition and sent it to the trial attorney, who approved, and then submitted it. The magistrate, not only granted the motion, but sanctioned us $1800 for filing a brief in opposition - and finished his ruling with "Happy Hanukkah". We appealed, got that reversed, and got that magistrate off the case, but YIPES!
Thank you Runkle. I really hope this Judge gets backlash from this. But we all know how this works. Poor lawyer guy
This wasn’t fair the judge jumped to conclusions and trying to pigeon hole him into judge version of events also not fair. But honestly I don’t see this as something could get a judge removed for like ppl are texting
I saw a BC Supreme Court Judge order the court clerk to back up the transcript to the beginning of a cross examination in order to destroy evidence of a defendant being caught dead to rights perjuring himself... and yes, the material fact he was caught lying about was the one the case basically hinged on. There is no question the judge was doing what he had to do in order to rule in favor of the insurance company representing the defendant.
The judge had an inexcusable amount of prejudice. I would be afraid that my presence at the trial would predjudice my client at that point. What a dick judge!
I think him asking for a mistrial based on that was fair. Idk if he didn’t have access to his client at the time but he should have attempted to communicate with him. Otherwise I feel sorry for defense, he felt like a no win situation here and a little beaten up.
I have strong opinions about abuse of power, especially by judges, that TH-cam probably won't like if I put here. So instead I will just wish Mr. Lebessis luck and pray he comes out of this okay
If a just gets has a bad day….the lawyer suffers. If the lawyer has a bad day…..the lawyer suffers.
If a lawyer has a bad day, the client suffers.
@@williamp6800 I don't disagree.....I was pointing out the apparent power imbalance between the judge and the lawyer....that was displayed in this video. The lawyer can have a great day and the client still goes to jail.
Boo to the Court for lack of diplomacy. I agree Runkle, I hope you are able to stand in unity.
I was the client in a disability appeal hearing. Unlike Mr. Lebesis, my attorney was totally unprepared. By the time the Judge finished dressing my lawyer down, I was in tears and voluntarily withdrew my appeal. I think attorneys and judges forget that defendants are completely out of their element and terribly vulnerable and don't deserve to see their future hanging on the threads of a personal pissing contest, no matter who is at fault. Judges who behave like petit tyrants and lawyers who treat clients' lives as cases they can walk away from because they had a bad day should be ashamed.
That's not "A bad day", it's literally the worst kind of day: The judge is an overgrown child. The case is FUBAR.
As a former Prosecutor I have run into good and not so good judges with a fair share of similar confrontations that Mr. Lebessis had. The subpoena issue should have been resolved before court convened. However the judge should not have ordered Mr. Lebessis into custody and a Judicial complaint should be made in light of that.
Will a judicial complaint do anything tho? I doubt it very much. As someone outside of the justice system, I see that the corruption and abuse goes unchecked. Which explains WHY there is corruption and abuse.
Ha, the odds of the Judicial Council actually making a negative finding against a judge is remote at best. The Judicial Council are a collection of sycophant's who have no telephone and NO address, its just a postal code in Ottawa
Canada is riddled with politically appointed Judges who make political decisions and put wrongfully convicted in jail to retaliate for even mentioning Judicial Misconduct and or Police Obstruction of Justice.
@@insanigo A Judicial complaint would at least put the judge on notice that his actions are being monitored.
Judge needs to be sanctioned. What a disgrace.
Judge needs a nap
At minimum 😂
Or a Snickers bar
Or a hug
A permanent nap
or an X-Lax
I am starting to understand why we've had so many egregious wrongful convictions in this country. We have no way of holding judges accountable for unprofessional behaviour. The judge should be fired.
to me it sounds like the Judge was out for the Lawyer. after all it would have taken less time. If the judge gave the Lawyer the time to clear out the missunderstanding.
Sounds like the judge made a mistake and then doubled down because of ego
Judge was unprofessional
I've been there. I'm not a lawyer, but I had the worst day at work, where I experienced horrendous treatment from my boss, and I left and then quit. I wasn't put in jail, but I was incredibly shaken, and at a moment where compassion was needed, I received dismissiveness. I think there's a different level of responsibility when you are a defense attorney and your client needs you, but in every other respect I support Mr. Lebessis.
Mr. Lebessis should not have left the building. That will bite him later. It’s highly likely that none of this would have occurred had the judge been a little less “judgy”.
I agree 100% that he shouldn't have, but I know I personally would be rage crying and swearing a blue streak at this point. I can't fault him for needing to breathe and get away from the abuse. I hope it's not held against him too much, but we all know it will be
@ Yup……And……They will give him a penalty that is visible to others….to deter future events during a judge tantrum.
Lebessis applied to be removed as counsel. The judge didn't answer.
I would have probably been held in contempt much earlier after suggesting to the judge he should have his morning coffee, but I guess that's why I'm not a lawyer 😅.
17:44 "You can tell me if you think that things are being described accurately, because I don't."
The impression that I got was that he was not being asked "Do you recall Mr. Ellis telling you that he would subpoena the witness?" but *"DID Mr. Ellis tell you that he would subpoena the witness?"* He didn't have absolute certainty, and he was told in so many words that the only acceptable answers were Yes or No. Later, the judge tried to say, "You could have said 'I don't know' or 'I don't recall,' but at the time, those options were not in front of him... in fact, the judge explicitly said they were unacceptable.
Given all that, it makes absolute sense that he wouldn't be willing to be pinned down to an absolute Yes or No, when he didn't remember for sure and the judge was basically asking him to go on the record as if he were a witness under oath.
Then he went and completely blew up his own situation by leaving the building; and frankly, that's when he most my sympathy. I grew up in a family of lawyers, and while I genuinely believe that this defense counsel was getting a very raw deal from the judge, he had an obligation to his client not to just leave, right before trial. Ask for a mistrial? Sure. Ask to be removed and replaced as counsel of record? Sure. Ask the prosecutors to drop the case because the original missing witness was their fault? Absolutely.
But you don't just walk out of the building and announce that you're never going back. That not only torpedoes your career -- and I'm not sure he'll get it back after that one -- but it torpedoes your client's case. And since this is a criminal charge, you're playing with somebody's life and freedom if you walk out and torpedo your client's case.
I'm of the opinion the judge needed to chill out and allow him a few minutes to figure out what happened. American lawyer here but wow, I would not be happy if that was my judge. I understand he messed up by not bringing his file but when someone is asking for a few minutes to figure something out, you give them that time if it isn't something that absolutely needs to be handled that minute.
I know I've had issues with clients and asked for a little time or stepped up on behalf of one of the other attorneys from my office when needed. Just asking for a couple minutes to check the e-file isn't something horrible.
Does this lawyer need counsel on November 22?
He is represented, apparently. I would bet that the room will be half full of defence lawyers.
I can’t count the number of times I have successfully objected to counsel demanding a yes or no answer. Completely inappropriate for a judge to pose such a question and repeatedly at that. Is there a history between these two? Or antipathy towards Edmonton counsel?
Sounds like the judge was already irked by something and took it out on Mr Lebessis. That really sucked. I don't blame him for walking out it just seemed like he was stuck in a situation where it would be hard to remain professional. The judge seemed hell bent on twisting things or would not have allowed him a chance to speak.
That judge acted childish throughout the ordeal
Hello Runkle. The judge sounds like he is playing chess,that he needed to win.
I think the judge was heavy handed for no reason; he was having a bad day and then tried to take it out on other people. Frustrating situation for the defense.
imo most canadian judges are wayyyy too protected and up their own ass.
No cameras in courtrooms, publication bans, etc etc etc
What does it take to remove a judge up there? For all it's problems, judges having to stand for reelection does have _some_ benefits.
@benjaminshropshire2900 bro i dont even know. i dont think ive ever heard of it happening. the news companies here wont touch the topic of corrupt judges with a ten foot pole, unless theres so much evidence its impossible to ignore. But we cant see the evidence because press isnt allowed in our courtrooms 90% of the time. I swear most of them have to be being blackmailed because some of their judgements literally border on treason in an intentionally country-destroying way.
A judge gave a drunk driving woman here, who killed two 18 year old boys in 2012, a 16 month sentence (out after 9). And other judges throw out blatant police misconduct accusations, allowing those poloce to continue being bullies to their communities.
its insane
Very interesting! Looking forward to any updates.
That’s an abuse of power, plain and simple.
This case is nuts. A judicial review of this particular judge should be required.
It has always been my understanding that because judges are sitting at a higher level they are supposed to be held to a higher standard. I don't know this judge and have never met him but he sounds like a jackass. If this is his normal behaviour he should be removed from the bench. My moody 16 year old son does better than this on his worst days
I had no idea we referred to opposing counsel as "my friend". Wow 😂
If I go, there will be trouble
And if I stay, it will be double
-- The Clash
My thoughts,
Someone urinated on the judges' cornflakes.
Just saying.
he's probably still in mourning over trump win and trudys inevitable departure
That's a huge toxicity at work, many workers in any other place would have resign for such activity.
Like, idk, you work in a supermarket, you boss get upset and don't give you time to find a note, an interrupt you when you try to respond his question, then says "sent him 10 min to the fridge room", HECK YEAH, YOU LEAVE, contract or not, even though you should sign a paper to say "I resign this job".
I rather have a worker leaving the place, not in the good formal way, than having him be crushed by the boss, to end up being verbally furious or gross.
Sometime, "fleeing" is a good option.
(yeah, I'm really French, I guess 😅😂)
The Judge handled this poorly.
The Judge really neess to do the right thing own his behavior and apologize. The Judge set the tone for things to go south.
The justice seems to have a paper thin emotial quotient and probaly should not be a judge.
My after the fact two cents...
I think every defence attorney for 50 miles not in court should be in that courtroom Friday morning. Each one of them making eye contact with the judge. This is clearly a mental break due to bullying by the judge.
Perhaps a committee needs to look at him in this case.
You are very likely getting your wish. I'm pretty sure that they'll be coming from 150km in at least two directions...
One may wonder how this would impact the judge's chances for reelection... until one may realize that this is Canada.
The court has brought itself into contempt and disrepute. That judge needs to be removed until an investigation is concluded regarding its conduct. Please report that judge to the whatever equivalent to the BAR for judges in canada is.
The judge has NO patience, it is his job to listen to the arguments, and to allow the lawyers as much time as they need to put their cases.
In my opinion, because he has no patience, he should not be a judge.
Why didn't the court acknowledge it was in the wrong once it heard that the other crown prosecutor admitted he'd "dropped the ball"?
What an absolute shambles on the judge's side. Don't know if he's usually snappy or not, but he sure should have checked his sugar levels early in the morning.
Good on the prosecution for stepping in and clearing the misunderstanding.
I feel simpathy for Mr. Lebessis. Had the judge behaved differently after adjourning the Court, maybe he would have stayed. Instead, he got a second and very unnecessary confrontation. Of course he's not coming back. To Hell with the judge, I'd say.
This sort of things has happened to me - not in a Court, mind you - and the usual outcome is, I either walk away and never come back; or I go back in, cold as ice, and try to fix the situation by any means necessary. Even if it includes dissing a superior for giving me a non-deserved rap about something beyond my control.
Anyway. I just hope lawyers will show up in strength this next friday to support Mr. Lebessis.
Thanks for sharing, Runkle.
Cheers,
Nobody deserves to be bullied in the workplace, much less imprisoned for some petty, egotistical shit.
Some days are better than others, the Judge was having a bad day and should apologise. The odds aren't good that will happen.
I think the judge was out of order. Demanding a "yes" or "no" when the answer is, "I think so," is unreasonable. George made a mistake and the Judge should have called him on that instead of trying to make answer a question which could have been inaccurate.
Lawyers pull that shit all the time….a yes or no answer sir!!😖
Randy van Hell? That's a 'hell' of a name!
I feel bad for the defendant, who must have been completely bewildered.
The judge sounds like he got in an argument with his wife that morning and was just looking for any excuse to start a fight with someone. That guy just happened to walk into his sights. What an asshole.
A "Do as I say" judge. He should be removed from the bench
Is the judges first name Karen?
No judge needs to act that way.
That was painful
This judge is determined not to listen!
Edit: big fan of this Lebessis fellow
Nothing new here ; the whole legal system in this country stinks anyway . Too much money with big egos .
Give the judge 14 days for contempt of Court?
The "issue" is the Judge is obstructing justice by failing to allow the defence to subpoena a witness.
The reality is Police and Crown will "hide" a witness. That includes scheduling leave, telling the cop to go on leave, and
then when trial resumes it happens again. If you are lucky, the cop will suddenly show up at trial
and then minutes before examination, you get a copy of his "hand written notes" that the Police failed to provide for the last year.
That means you don't have time to examine the disclosure.
Each time they do that, you find incriminating evidence.
Then the Crown and the Judge cover it up and wrongfully convict the accused who goes to jail
never to be given a lawyer until shortly before the release date.
Can the defence counsel sue the AG for wrongful arrest? Clearly at that point there was NO contempt of court on behalf of the defence counsel.
The thing is, it's not the AG at fault here. It's squarely on the Court.
@@PRWelke I understand that, however here in BC, it would be the AG (unless supreme court) as they oversee the entire system. For Supreme Court it would be the Federal AG. Judges are to uphold the law and not to be above it.
Ive seen controlling and abuse of power by judges on numerous occasions, their emotions are triggered and the law goes out the window. It can be a lottery. But, agree this case appears unsound.
This judge needs a LONG vacation and needs some training on how to have a normal respectful exchange. Truthfully, he abused his power, he's a bully and needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY.
Are there any cases that don't destroy people's trust in the judicial system?
Will Mr. Lebessis potentially be arrested and tossed in jail again on November 22nd?. I know I will be in the courtroom to witness this.
Thank you Ian
I don't know what led up to this, but it does sound like the judge tripped over his robe there.
Lawyers are people too. Mental health and well-being is a thing regardless of profession, and that sort of unprovoked behavior from a judge is not something anyone's prepared to deal with. Him leaving like that seems like a mental health emergency to me.
In my opinion, the judge was wrong.
Aside from everything else, that must have left the court recorder frazzled.
It's pretty tough to "frazzle" a microphone and hard drive.
What are the steps to file a complaint against a judge and what are even the consequences? If judges knows no one will judge them, why will they care..
Not to mention, as it happens so many times in history, if people can't get legal justice against justice, they will seek natural justice.
It’s a complaint to the Canadian Judicial Council. They, not the law societies oversee judicial disciplinary matters.
@@Korrin1
Do they have the power to either remove a judge from the bench completely? Do they have the power to remove the judge from the case? No
If a judge refuse to recuse himself and later found out on a appeal that violated charter right for due process that he or she didn't, tax payer will have to set the bill, not the judge out of pocket. No real powers.
In the US, at least, there is checks in terms of elections - they are elected only by public officials, and with the exception of the SOCTUS, can be removed accordingly, and usually for criminal offences the FBI steps in, which mean federal prison, which mean problem will be solved by the inmates
If you're able to attend and then follow this up I'd be interested in following this.
I’m just a hillbilly but it looks like this judge needs to be fired..
I am disgusted that my tax dollars are wasted with such bullshit.
Sounds like the judge needs to adopt radio procedures and end his side of the conversation by saying “over”.
lol
This Magistrate is giving Judge Bev Vibes
I would walk, too. Better than going postal.
I have also seen crown and defense dance for 8 hours and accomplish nothing only to ask for an adjournment. Then the judge loses it because what were they doing the whole time!
My opinion only. The judge immediately from the very beginning appeared very biased / prejudicial against this lawyer. He had an absolute hard-on towards Mr. Lebessis.
From my perspective, I think the judge was WAY harsh. This in my opinion was not the time or place to play hardball. Granted, perhaps Mr L shouldn’t have grabbed his proverbial bat & ball then left, but the way he was treated? It leaves me wondering if he perhaps has been treated poorly previously. Either way that would rattle me also and I’d likely be outa there too… that would scare me half to death. This was so interesting. 👍
This is dumb. If he was in a hurry that backfired. Also I hate cliffhangers! 😅 We're definitely going to need the update.
Question: do we actually have a judicial system? or just another branch of politics???
I don’t know Canadian law, but I CAN recognise a wholly unprofessional, condescending jagoff when I hear one.
This judge is one of those, and I would be FURIOUS if someone I worked with acted like this.
SHAMEFUL.
How long was he in 'Jail', 5 minutes ? Like a major penalty in hockey, lawyer sits in the penalty box.
The old adage Runkle ... 'the law is an ass' 😅😂
I was having so much deja vu through this video. I feel like a lot of teachers treated me this way when I was a child. I also had a girlfriend that did this schtick where she'd ask a question, and interrupt and insist on yes or no when neither were appropriate. My mother often interrupted, and she would get very upset if anyone ever tried to say anything when she was talking. I also had a couple of managers do this in the past. It's been a long time since I dealt with this stuff, but it's definitely one of the worst ways that a person can be rude, especially while weilding a lot of power.
There's an old latin phrase I think the judge should have heard from defense counsel, I can't recall the exact wording, but the acronym is GFY?