The stalker dies at 4:39 the immortal pops at 5:05. For that entire time the two marauders are *both* focusing the zealot in the battery that could easily be depowered. I’m sure if you can get 8 shots on a pylon in two seconds, you could get 16 shots to kill it in 25 seconds with 2-3 marauders, it definetly wasn’t a lost game.
When playing this strategy, I make the second barracks at home. At the diamond level, they don't even realise you're cheesing most of the time (even if they scout!). It does hit a little later, but you have a better economy and they're less likely to build batteries/bunkers (which are ok counters against people like me who can't micro). I don't pull the boys, which means it sometimes turns into a macro game (usually w/ me ahead in workers). The build works well against protoss and terran but not usually against Zerg. Just FYI
honestly I'm silver so not even remotely good, but if at the first scouting I only see depots and not even a barracks when normally it should be under construction it's obvious that something strange is happening and you try to react accordingly. And I understand it as a silver person, for a diamond it should be obvious that a cheese is taking place
@@gianmarcobuzzotti4517 that's what he's saying. He builds the second barracks where the first one is supposed to be, but at that level no one check timings or build progress like that. That was my first thought as well while watching, I would def try doing it like that if I played actively rn
Harstem, please try this! I've been doing an ultra greedy 2 CC opener at the gold-plat level with a 95% success rate. I started in bronze (after not playing for years) and am about to hit platinum without any sign of slowing down. I'd really like to see how this build holds up at higher skill levels... or if I'm going to hit a hard wall with it eventually. Build order is; depot, then send that SCV to corner for ninja expand(or high yield minerals). After depot, send the second SCV built to other corner (or high yield gas) to build CC. Once that is started, start 2 rax, refinery, and e-bay at main. As your first CC is at 60-70%, transfer around 8 SCVs in intervals of 2-3, and send a scout to enemy base. Do the same with the second CC. 1 refinery at each expand (just 1-2 scv on each), then build 1 or 2 more barracks at each base, you should have around 8-10 total between 3-4 minutes. Start weapons upgrade first. Pop a supply depot at each expand, and another e-bay or two, and start armor upgrade. IF YOU SCOUT RUSH: build bunker at main, skip add-ons for rax and build marines. Once all your rax are finished building start to a reactor one at a time, while the rest continue to produce marines. Add a reactor to 1 rax at main, when this is finished add a tech lab. Keep adding 1 reactor at a time, or tech labs if you feel a need for marauders...though I just like to drown them in marines. IF NO RUSH: build 2 more expands, and periodically make sure you are transferring workers to new bases. I try not to mine out any one location right away. The goal is to have mining bases and production spread all around the map so you feel like a blob to your enemy. I actually expect to lose a base or two at the beginning but by that point my income and production will be so crazy is doesn't matter. I've straight up lost 3 bases before 10 minutes and still won games because your macro is just insane with this build.
@@thebabypixel4035 You mean at higher ranks? Because I am crushing with it in gold, and it also beats the Elite AI as long as I'm on point. I haven't faced super high level harass, which is why I'd like to see it done by a better player, but EVERYONE I'm playing lately is running some cheesy rush or 2 base all in and it's been holding up so far. I've won like 45 of my last 50 or so. I often lose one base and still win just because I'll still have at least 2 other mining bases and like 8 reactored barracks all around the map just streaming marines to their base to counter. Can you explain what you mean by "it 100% dies to anything"?
You'll likely hit a wall past platinum. Players at higher levels have better intuition when it comes to hidden expansions, proxies etc. I know I can usually pick up when something is weird in the game, like you not having a certain amount of units, you not having enough tech structures or sophisticated enough units. It might work in low diamond, but you'd just need to keep up macro wise. There is a big jump between platinum and diamond, and then again from diamond to masters. Also a decent enough player that scouts a ninja base, will be on the lookout for anymore of them too. At least I know I would be! Definitely keep trying to come up with your own builds though! You can ask some diamond players or something if you could try it vs them (without them knowing what you're going to try).
Sounds like a fun build for lower ranks, but what happens when you face a Zerg who builds 20 lings and sends 10 to each of your ninja expands and kills all your workers? Now you're behind in eco with delayed tech and it's game over. Same thing would happen against Terrans moving around with Medivac drops or Protoss who open Blink Stalker. The reason ninja expands aren't used in higher ELO is because it's too easy for someone skilled to punish you being that spread out. It's much easier to be the player moving around the map targeting different bases at will than it is to be the player trying to defend 3 locations at once. Low ELO players just don't know how to recognize ninja expands or punish them.
I would like to see some cannon rushes for an hours straight... But with the preperation for good spots on each map and a backup plan so transition out of the cannon rush if the game doesn't end straight away. --> Also this could be some real good practise that you might benefit from in the future on the new maps. Or maybe one base contain for an hours straight. Most entertaining for me would be to see something that helps you with your protoss... Something that you do in a video for an hours straight and then you don't really use it any more on the ladder (only in custom games with people you trust, if you found something that you can use in professional plays) and when the next tournament or EPT is at the door, you can use it comfortably. In general i think there are some undiscovered or maybe just underused strategies that involve early game cheese to get some good damadge and then transitioning out of it into a macro game with the advantage of beeing ahead because of the early game cheese damadge.
proxy 2 gate into forge, aka cannon rushing with zealots. for one hour. I believe this has by far the best ratio of wins to losses of all the cheese builds you play on this channel
The question would be with what rules exactly? Everyone has to do some sort of early game cheese every game? Then the question would be is scouting allowed or not? Etc. . But i thought about this before too. A cheese tournament would be so awesome. Also a random tournament would be awesome but super imba. Imagine serral would play a bo3, bo5 or bo7 and gets 4 times zerg in a row... very unlikely but still possible 😂
@@ChingueSaganaki Players could get a point for winning a game, and a point for playing the cheesier game, so you have to play both better and cheesier on average to win
On the topic of barcode names: in terms of game theory, it makes sense that you should always queue up anonymously if you can, since it denies any potential meta game info to your opponent. That can be fun when you watch people like Harstem who do interesting cheeses and stuff, but personally, I like the mind gaming that goes on when two players know each other, their repertoires and their play style. In most other competitive games you have overlays and tools for seeing your opponents MMR and match history. I wonder if it would be revitalising to have this added in StarCraft?
It's been around on and off for awhile. The Mothership Core in HOTS really killed this build for a long time, cause it'd put you on a timer and they could just keep attacking your marauders and not allow you to pool them up. The Nexus overcharge really helped defend against this build as well.
its funny, on the gold ladder a terran did this to me once, and utterly failed because i scouted it and just built a battery or two, really cant remember, but i think he went on to lift his buildings when i won
Did you ever figure out who the pro player from the second game was? Also, i love how you constantly talk about how the only thing protoss can do to stop this is to build a sentry, and then when given the chance you don't focus fire their sentry before probes and stalkers.
I use this build a lot and if they're not map hacking I win 90% of the time, I send two scvs out straight away then get depo and gass asap, start first barracks and then start second, get reactors and Concussive shells, you must get that, build bunker lower ground while trying to kill stalker make sure you aim for pylons straight away, probes are hella strong so get to ground bunker and as he pulls away head back up killing probes, if he is hacking he will have Stargate up so get that pylon asap love this build so fun.
I think 150 minerals spent from the first act on enemy side of the map for a floating barracks would make this build so much more boss most the marauders lost are going up the ramp blind on vision barracks has so much hp worth the money as a scouting tool. Blok3man
To mineral stack, it's helpful to be able to quickly scan your mineral line to see which patches have only 1 worker mining them. He sees there are 2 with only 1 worker, which is 14 workers on minerals.
I like this game bit have never hopped on the ladder because another game consumes all my time. I'm thinking if I do this I can make it to at least plat lol.
Hy! i can see that in the last week or so,people are saying that i am using YOUR terran strat of 2 gas 2 factory tank/cyclon opening.... Don-t take credit for everything that you do!
How are you supposed to defend this as protoss? I never see any protoss winning vs this cheese even in GSL outside of blind countering. Please make a guide. I think concussive shell should simply take 15 seconds longer to research, I don't see how that would impact anything outside of cheeses.
My god, my hate towards T grows each time i see one of these videos with those disgustingly easy to execute cheeses, then go in a game and lose my first 2 stalkers to the new cyclone. What a shit balance lately, it's just all about quality of life for T.
I'm in low plat and always find it funny when I play vs a barcode. I mean, if you're playing me you obviously suck bad so having a barcode is meaningless. Why do people do this?
yeah it's a joke. You see lots of low rank people with barcode, acting like they're a pro training for GSL or something. Seriously tho, only reason to have a barcode at low level is if you just do the same 1-2 builds over and over, and don't want people to blind counter them by recognising your name.
![เกิดใหม่ทั้งทีก็เป็นสไลม์ไปซะแล้ว ซีซั่น 3 - ตอนที่ 58 [ซับไทย]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TgNEbYSTY0Y/mqdefault.jpg)
“This build is good because it has exactly one blind counter”
First game starts with a different blind counter.
... spoilers. my bad for reading comments.
😄
@@goforvendingtofu I didn't say how it ended
"Terrans don't scout their natural"
Next game: doesn't realize the stargate is in his natural
True Terran player 😅
"Thor RUSHING For an hours Straight" would be a banger of a video 😂😈🤗💪
I'd watch a 24hr cheese marathon. You'd def. need to theme it up with some cheese props and snacks. Cheese hat, etc.
+1
+1
nah. redundant. we can see harstem in the video
he barely streams for 2 hours at a time tho
@@quineloehaha yeah let’s start with 8 but I like the idea of
I am really liking these one build episodes.
First game already made a value for 1 hour.
„I dont think he is going to gg” WHO? XD
Well harstem had been skipping out on gg's lately, he's quite outrageous
That smirky AmAzInG when beating the alledged Pro Player got me lol
right? the child-like joy he shows when he cheeses someone of high-standing cracks me up, you know he loves it
The stalker dies at 4:39 the immortal pops at 5:05. For that entire time the two marauders are *both* focusing the zealot in the battery that could easily be depowered. I’m sure if you can get 8 shots on a pylon in two seconds, you could get 16 shots to kill it in 25 seconds with 2-3 marauders, it definetly wasn’t a lost game.
Reactions like the one at 8:40 are one of the many reasons I love watching this man play
When playing this strategy, I make the second barracks at home. At the diamond level, they don't even realise you're cheesing most of the time (even if they scout!). It does hit a little later, but you have a better economy and they're less likely to build batteries/bunkers (which are ok counters against people like me who can't micro). I don't pull the boys, which means it sometimes turns into a macro game (usually w/ me ahead in workers). The build works well against protoss and terran but not usually against Zerg. Just FYI
honestly I'm silver so not even remotely good, but if at the first scouting I only see depots and not even a barracks when normally it should be under construction it's obvious that something strange is happening and you try to react accordingly. And I understand it as a silver person, for a diamond it should be obvious that a cheese is taking place
@@gianmarcobuzzotti4517 that's what he's saying. He builds the second barracks where the first one is supposed to be, but at that level no one check timings or build progress like that. That was my first thought as well while watching, I would def try doing it like that if I played actively rn
best part was Harstem doing the music perfectly at the end of the last game. that was truly wonderful.
Cheese marathon with 8hours on each race would be so cool
Harstem, please try this!
I've been doing an ultra greedy 2 CC opener at the gold-plat level with a 95% success rate. I started in bronze (after not playing for years) and am about to hit platinum without any sign of slowing down. I'd really like to see how this build holds up at higher skill levels... or if I'm going to hit a hard wall with it eventually.
Build order is; depot, then send that SCV to corner for ninja expand(or high yield minerals). After depot, send the second SCV built to other corner (or high yield gas) to build CC. Once that is started, start 2 rax, refinery, and e-bay at main. As your first CC is at 60-70%, transfer around 8 SCVs in intervals of 2-3, and send a scout to enemy base. Do the same with the second CC. 1 refinery at each expand (just 1-2 scv on each), then build 1 or 2 more barracks at each base, you should have around 8-10 total between 3-4 minutes. Start weapons upgrade first. Pop a supply depot at each expand, and another e-bay or two, and start armor upgrade.
IF YOU SCOUT RUSH: build bunker at main, skip add-ons for rax and build marines. Once all your rax are finished building start to a reactor one at a time, while the rest continue to produce marines. Add a reactor to 1 rax at main, when this is finished add a tech lab. Keep adding 1 reactor at a time, or tech labs if you feel a need for marauders...though I just like to drown them in marines.
IF NO RUSH: build 2 more expands, and periodically make sure you are transferring workers to new bases. I try not to mine out any one location right away. The goal is to have mining bases and production spread all around the map so you feel like a blob to your enemy. I actually expect to lose a base or two at the beginning but by that point my income and production will be so crazy is doesn't matter. I've straight up lost 3 bases before 10 minutes and still won games because your macro is just insane with this build.
i dunno what this is but im loving it 100% dies to anything though haha
@@thebabypixel4035 You mean at higher ranks? Because I am crushing with it in gold, and it also beats the Elite AI as long as I'm on point. I haven't faced super high level harass, which is why I'd like to see it done by a better player, but EVERYONE I'm playing lately is running some cheesy rush or 2 base all in and it's been holding up so far. I've won like 45 of my last 50 or so. I often lose one base and still win just because I'll still have at least 2 other mining bases and like 8 reactored barracks all around the map just streaming marines to their base to counter.
Can you explain what you mean by "it 100% dies to anything"?
You'll likely hit a wall past platinum. Players at higher levels have better intuition when it comes to hidden expansions, proxies etc. I know I can usually pick up when something is weird in the game, like you not having a certain amount of units, you not having enough tech structures or sophisticated enough units. It might work in low diamond, but you'd just need to keep up macro wise. There is a big jump between platinum and diamond, and then again from diamond to masters. Also a decent enough player that scouts a ninja base, will be on the lookout for anymore of them too. At least I know I would be! Definitely keep trying to come up with your own builds though! You can ask some diamond players or something if you could try it vs them (without them knowing what you're going to try).
Sounds like a fun build for lower ranks, but what happens when you face a Zerg who builds 20 lings and sends 10 to each of your ninja expands and kills all your workers? Now you're behind in eco with delayed tech and it's game over.
Same thing would happen against Terrans moving around with Medivac drops or Protoss who open Blink Stalker.
The reason ninja expands aren't used in higher ELO is because it's too easy for someone skilled to punish you being that spread out. It's much easier to be the player moving around the map targeting different bases at will than it is to be the player trying to defend 3 locations at once. Low ELO players just don't know how to recognize ninja expands or punish them.
This legitimately makes fun to watch, thank you!
I would like to see some cannon rushes for an hours straight... But with the preperation for good spots on each map and a backup plan so transition out of the cannon rush if the game doesn't end straight away. --> Also this could be some real good practise that you might benefit from in the future on the new maps.
Or maybe one base contain for an hours straight.
Most entertaining for me would be to see something that helps you with your protoss... Something that you do in a video for an hours straight and then you don't really use it any more on the ladder (only in custom games with people you trust, if you found something that you can use in professional plays) and when the next tournament or EPT is at the door, you can use it comfortably.
In general i think there are some undiscovered or maybe just underused strategies that involve early game cheese to get some good damadge and then transitioning out of it into a macro game with the advantage of beeing ahead because of the early game cheese damadge.
there was that serious attempt at a cannon rush vs. reynor
Harstem did you only match again protoss players or did you only use the games where you did?
proxy 2 gate into forge, aka cannon rushing with zealots. for one hour.
I believe this has by far the best ratio of wins to losses of all the cheese builds you play on this channel
Your neighbor is SCV. That one which is doing building after a building all game long.
We need a tournament of cheeses 🙆
I'd also love a tournament where you must play random.
@@screes620 I want starcraft boxing, like chess boxing but with starcraft
The question would be with what rules exactly? Everyone has to do some sort of early game cheese every game? Then the question would be is scouting allowed or not? Etc. .
But i thought about this before too. A cheese tournament would be so awesome. Also a random tournament would be awesome but super imba. Imagine serral would play a bo3, bo5 or bo7 and gets 4 times zerg in a row... very unlikely but still possible 😂
@@ChingueSaganaki Players could get a point for winning a game, and a point for playing the cheesier game, so you have to play both better and cheesier on average to win
For rules, you only get a win if it's a less than 10 minutes game. Otherwise it counts as a draw.
Great job guys!
something special about that smile when youre cheesing
A 24-hour cheese-athon would be amazing! Mixing in all the cheeses you've used in the cheesiest man alive would be so satisfying to watch.
THis build is an absolute classic. I've used this many times
This build is SO fun to watch!!
I want 10 hours of this
i'd like to see another episode of the series
37:26 Post-Youth has rush distance of 28 seconds, I'm pretty sure Beckett industries also had a shorter rush distance
One more time, I’m going to cyclone! All day and all night can’t stop the cyclone!
Terran cheesers are having a field day recently
12:52 - If you weren't pulling SCVs with this you could definitely macro out of it. Especially with how many probes you've successfully killed!!
I haven't watched SC in forever, but is this the year of harstem?
id like to see zerg cheese like this one for one hour straight.
i thought it was anakin skywalker in the thumbnail for a moment there
4:37 Lol'd
😂 being matched by other Cheesers is 🔥🔥
On the topic of barcode names: in terms of game theory, it makes sense that you should always queue up anonymously if you can, since it denies any potential meta game info to your opponent. That can be fun when you watch people like Harstem who do interesting cheeses and stuff, but personally, I like the mind gaming that goes on when two players know each other, their repertoires and their play style.
In most other competitive games you have overlays and tools for seeing your opponents MMR and match history. I wonder if it would be revitalising to have this added in StarCraft?
April 3rd is National Cheese Weasel day. If you're going to do a full day of cheese it should be April 3rd.
wonderful!
A new episode of Throwing with Harstem! *Popcorn*
Blizzard tax got me good.
Proxy marauder was one of the first builds i lost to in copper league when i started in WOL, im surprised it took the Pro scene so long to catch on
It's been around on and off for awhile. The Mothership Core in HOTS really killed this build for a long time, cause it'd put you on a timer and they could just keep attacking your marauders and not allow you to pool them up. The Nexus overcharge really helped defend against this build as well.
What a bloodbath!
Harstem "This is a build i win most with Terran" proceeds to lose the game
its funny, on the gold ladder a terran did this to me once, and utterly failed because i scouted it and just built a battery or two, really cant remember, but i think he went on to lift his buildings when i won
gold league Terrans sap my faith in humanity
he found more blind-counters
finally some good fucking gameplay
Interestingly when I see a scout a single gas proxy barracks on the ladder I immediately put down a stargate because of marauders.
“Interestingly, brag brag brag brag brag brag brag”
😂😂
@@JFox4587he's Plat let him have this.
Oceanborn? Ghost river? I bet the map designer(s) are Nightwish fans!
Darn I just researched it, map designer Marras names her maps using names of Finnish metal songs!
Did you ever figure out who the pro player from the second game was? Also, i love how you constantly talk about how the only thing protoss can do to stop this is to build a sentry, and then when given the chance you don't focus fire their sentry before probes and stalkers.
do an Hour of cannon-/batteryrush into Tempest-expand at his natural/3rd ^^
MacroMachine wasn't in some IODIS?
with the new patch lowering Terran bio upgrade costs, a fast 3/3 cheese might be fun
*KABOOM BABY!*
I use this build a lot and if they're not map hacking I win 90% of the time, I send two scvs out straight away then get depo and gass asap, start first barracks and then start second, get reactors and Concussive shells, you must get that, build bunker lower ground while trying to kill stalker make sure you aim for pylons straight away, probes are hella strong so get to ground bunker and as he pulls away head back up killing probes, if he is hacking he will have Stargate up so get that pylon asap love this build so fun.
Please try out beyond all reason
meh, many RTS players have tried it and stopped playing it after a day again.
Random cheese !
The cyclone/tank cheese had a much higher win rate!
I think 150 minerals spent from the first act on enemy side of the map for a floating barracks would make this build so much more boss most the marauders lost are going up the ramp blind on vision barracks has so much hp worth the money as a scouting tool.
Blok3man
14:45 how does the count the number of workers his opponent has so quickly?
To mineral stack, it's helpful to be able to quickly scan your mineral line to see which patches have only 1 worker mining them. He sees there are 2 with only 1 worker, which is 14 workers on minerals.
I prefer MarineLorD's version of proxy marauders. Looks standard, usually doesn't provoke any defensive response and hits like a truck no matter what.
Love this cheese
this build is the reason I stopped playing SC2 back in vanilla, good to see it's as broken as it was back then
I like this game bit have never hopped on the ladder because another game consumes all my time. I'm thinking if I do this I can make it to at least plat lol.
kevin it's cuz u went up the ramp and got surrounded
How about a no CC upgrades build?
Please do a 24hr cheese stream for chairty!
That is a horrible idea, I love it!
Nice
I will donate on that since you will keep the money
Who is this guy and where is the cheesiest man alive?
I enjoy the show
When will the lies end?
It sounds insane but Liberators counter Immortals, check Uthermal's 1v7 against Protoss insane AI
I've been doing this build without proxy and it rekts protoss in diamond, easiest marchup as a Terran. I expand when it doesnt outright kill them.
since when do diamond protoss not just rush stargate void ray?
59.01 is not an hour straight .........
Scammed by 59 Seconds! This is basically Robbery at this Point.
59 min, where is 1 minute of marauders rush???
Laugh at opponent response. Lose the game. 😅
59 seconds off from an hour I feel ripped off.
Hy!
i can see that in the last week or so,people are saying that i am using YOUR terran strat of 2 gas 2 factory tank/cyclon opening....
Don-t take credit for everything that you do!
How are you supposed to defend this as protoss? I never see any protoss winning vs this cheese even in GSL outside of blind countering. Please make a guide. I think concussive shell should simply take 15 seconds longer to research, I don't see how that would impact anything outside of cheeses.
Is there a reason he always says 14 points even though it's 13?
My god, my hate towards T grows each time i see one of these videos with those disgustingly easy to execute cheeses, then go in a game and lose my first 2 stalkers to the new cyclone. What a shit balance lately, it's just all about quality of life for T.
I'm in low plat and always find it funny when I play vs a barcode. I mean, if you're playing me you obviously suck bad so having a barcode is meaningless. Why do people do this?
Monkey see, monkey do, like so many things
yeah it's a joke. You see lots of low rank people with barcode, acting like they're a pro training for GSL or something.
Seriously tho, only reason to have a barcode at low level is if you just do the same 1-2 builds over and over, and don't want people to blind counter them by recognising your name.
where GG counter and floating counter 😒😒
Terrans on the ladder are just not very good. Completely negates all the 'protoss representation in GM' comments, when they all suck.
first protoss suicides 4 stalkers for free... still wins?? Yeah this build is terrible lol.
trash sequel im quite glad that sc 3 will never see light.
kaasfondue. Good stuff.