Another good thing to mention about sleep clause is there is no such thing in VGC. If that were the case then dark void smeargle would have been giving disqualifications left and right. One other thing to mention is that VGC really doesn't have a lot of these rules because they can just fix it in the next game. For example with the smeargle example, it can no longer use dark void, it is a move only darkrai can use now. Another is the mechanics around confusion since parafusion (paralysis-confusion) was too strong they changed from 50% chance to a 33.3% chance of the pokemon hitting itself.
Smogon Doubles doesn't have a general Sleep Clause, either, but it does ban Dark Void and Gravity+non 100% accurate Sleep Moves. Sleep isn't nearly as big of a problem in Doubles, since the other Pokemon can still attach the turn its partner is put to sleep.
One thing to note about the ban for the move Swagger is that it is specifically Swagger, not other moves that are accurate and cause confusion, such as Flatter and Confuse Ray. Swagger has much higher availability compared to the other two moves and thus is far more common. In addition, the fact that Swagger raises the Attack stat by 2 stages is actually very relevant to the move. Hitting yourself in confusion is considered a 40 power physical attack and thus the damage from hitting yourself is doubled if you got confused through Swagger, as opposed to other means. Edit: Hitting yourself being a physical attack is also why it is optimal for pokemon that do not rely on their attack stat to have 0 IVs in attack.
The availabity is almost entirely irrelavent. The sole reason swagger was banned is because of klefki is generation 6/7. Prankstar swagger combined with foul play was a negative gameplay experience, whether or not the swagger ban is actually still relavent with confusions nerf and dark types being immune to prankter modified status is iffy. The reasoning why the other confusion moves aren't banned is as you said using a move to confuse the opponent is just bad, swagger was only good if you both were using it with prankster and were back it with foulplay to take advantage of the opponents boosted attack stat.
@@XenithShadowthere were some other SwagPlay abusers too like Liepard, but Klefki was the most prevalent. At one point there was a full Swagger + Foul Play team of Klefki, Liepard, and Thundurus Incarnate that would just sub swagger twave and foul play
I've been following the competitive pokemon scene for a couple years now, but I still found this video really enjoyable, even if it was nothing I didn't know. I wish good luck on your YT journey. Keep it up, you make pretty good content in my opinion.
Something to note with trapping abilities vs trapping moves is that moves give the opponent an extra chance to switch out before being trapped. If I send out Arena Trap Dugtrio you need to predict it on the turn I switch since you're trapped as soon as it hits the field. If I instead send out Mean Look Umbreon you can still switch out on the same turn I use Mean Look.
For the swagger example, you didn't do a very good job of explaining why it's uncompetitive. it leaves the impression of, well why isn't confuse ray banned as well? and thunder wave? the emphasis of both confusion and swagger itself being nerfed in gen 7, it's wide learnset, and prankster + foul play would have helped flesh out your reasoning. also, the big yellow video isn't linked
Oops, that’s definitely my bad for forgetting to link it. And thank you for the constructive criticism. To be honest, I didn’t know a whole lot about the Swagger ban as it only popped up while I was already in the middle of writing the script. So that’s definitely my bad.
another big reason swagger is banned is because of how many physical attacking mons get own tempo and can essentially have an ally give them a free swords dance and attack in the same turn, and then use that same move to force opponents to coinflip. flatter isn't banned because its distribution is worse and special attack doesn't affect the damage you take from confusion.
This video’s really well made and really informative! I like it a lot, thank you for quality content and I hope you do more amazing stuff in the future!
So man just came across your channel for the first time and you're soooo underrated like you have hood editing ( i liked the memes you add for a split second sonetimes ) good voice acting good script like everything i wonder how you aren't more known like keep going man and about the QOTD maybe you can talk about the other closes for specific gens like the baton pass or when those specific clauses u mentioned were different like in gen 3 when arena trap isn't banned also in i think gen 7 early sun and moon in stall teams . So keep up the good work man nice video ❤
Omg thank you so much for the compliments!!! I really appreciate it :) Also thank you for the idea, that’ll probably be for the next episode of this series now (not the next video, next video I plan on doing something on another game)
I also think that something else to consider is the 1000 turn limit. If neither opponent can find itself a breakthrough vs the other team, a forced draw is applied. This works similar to endless clause
Yes there is, however, the Baton Pass Clause varies amongst the generations in the way it is implemented, and the fact that it wasn’t on the universal bans and clauses list on the Smogon website meant that I didn’t get to talk about it.
Well, to be fair, the council is made up of people who generally have a lot of experience in competitive Pokémon, and it’s definitely not just a personal matter.
Love the video, but this is just my personal opinion. I feel like a lot of smogons rules actually limit your playability and ability to use certain strategies simply because it’s singles. Where is as VCG knows that singles is not a healthy competitive place to hold tournaments so they don’t all to often not only that, but the only rules that they have are for actual fairness of everyone as seen with the event clause And non-duplicate item clause which really do help people that can’t go and get those Pokémon or never able to and also does encourage unique and give some form of to which item which needs the hold or if it just works better on a different Pokémon I always felt like smogon had too many rules in place for their competitive format, but looking at it I guess it does kind of make sense because they play singles but still most rules in smogon limit creativity simply because they don’t want to find Waze or develop strategies to work around certain builds
Upon further research, it seems Swagger was banned because it combo’s very well with Foul Play. The strategy was often cited as being toxic by the smogon community. It also doesn’t make sense to me, but considering confusion isn’t seen a lot of the time anyways, I think most people haven’t decided to ban it because of that fact.
It's because it's more feast or famine than just confusion. Your Mon hit by Swagger much more likely to kill itself thanks to the damage being doubled; meanwhile if you don't get unlucky you get a free Swords Dance which is insane.
@@byeguyssry Not quite true. You either hit your self in confusion with double damage or you get nothing, since only an idiot is going to swagger your physical attacking pokemon. The only case you physical attack gets swaggers is as a last ditch attempt to stop you setup sweeper. (or you switch a physical attacker into swagger)
Flatter isn’t banned. This is mostly likely due to the fact that Flatter isn’t well distributed, and boosts Special Attack instead of Attack, which is not useful for confusion. As a refresher, if a Pokémon hits themselves in confusion, they deal damage with a type less physical attack. Special Attack being raised doesn’t affect the damage done. Also, another reason Swagger was banned was because it paired very well with Foul Play, a move that does damage based on the opponents Attack, not the user. Again, Special Attack isn’t accounted for here. Flatter is basically just a confusion move that can only benefit the opponent, even with confusion. Therefore, it wasn’t banned.
As far as I can tell, the only way to get a fissure Machamp is by transferring it from Red and Blue. So while you are correct and I did make a mistake in stating that, in most of the generations aside from the very first, there aren’t any Pokémon that have No Guard and learn OHKO moves.
Fissure and No Guard, by some miracle, aren't legal on the same Machamp. The only way to get Fissure Machamp is to migrate it from Gen 1/2, but all pokemon migrated like that are forced to have their Hidden Ability. Machamp's hidden ability is Steadfast, not No Guard, and there's no way to change it.
@@natnew32 Ability patch remove hidden abilites. The reason there not legal on the same machamp is that pokemon home will delete fissure when you transfer machamp. So the actually reason fissure machamp can't exist is because of dexit in gen 8 where alot of move and move sets and pokemon got removed.
I didn’t feel as though they really matched the level of quality I’m trying to strive for nowadays, so I unlisted them. I have them all in a playlist on my channel, but for the sake of keeping things simple, I had to remove them from the public page.
Another good thing to mention about sleep clause is there is no such thing in VGC. If that were the case then dark void smeargle would have been giving disqualifications left and right. One other thing to mention is that VGC really doesn't have a lot of these rules because they can just fix it in the next game. For example with the smeargle example, it can no longer use dark void, it is a move only darkrai can use now. Another is the mechanics around confusion since parafusion (paralysis-confusion) was too strong they changed from 50% chance to a 33.3% chance of the pokemon hitting itself.
Smogon Doubles doesn't have a general Sleep Clause, either, but it does ban Dark Void and Gravity+non 100% accurate Sleep Moves. Sleep isn't nearly as big of a problem in Doubles, since the other Pokemon can still attach the turn its partner is put to sleep.
One thing to note about the ban for the move Swagger is that it is specifically Swagger, not other moves that are accurate and cause confusion, such as Flatter and Confuse Ray.
Swagger has much higher availability compared to the other two moves and thus is far more common.
In addition, the fact that Swagger raises the Attack stat by 2 stages is actually very relevant to the move. Hitting yourself in confusion is considered a 40 power physical attack and thus the damage from hitting yourself is doubled if you got confused through Swagger, as opposed to other means.
Edit: Hitting yourself being a physical attack is also why it is optimal for pokemon that do not rely on their attack stat to have 0 IVs in attack.
The availabity is almost entirely irrelavent. The sole reason swagger was banned is because of klefki is generation 6/7.
Prankstar swagger combined with foul play was a negative gameplay experience, whether or not the swagger ban is actually still relavent with confusions nerf and dark types being immune to prankter modified status is iffy.
The reasoning why the other confusion moves aren't banned is as you said using a move to confuse the opponent is just bad, swagger was only good if you both were using it with prankster and were back it with foulplay to take advantage of the opponents boosted attack stat.
@@XenithShadowthere were some other SwagPlay abusers too like Liepard, but Klefki was the most prevalent. At one point there was a full Swagger + Foul Play team of Klefki, Liepard, and Thundurus Incarnate that would just sub swagger twave and foul play
they lifted the "Species clause" during the april fools(I don't remember if this happened this year or last year) and nothing bad happened.
Great video! Just wanna add that freeze clause existed before Smogon, in several official Japanese Gen 1 tournaments.
Just a minor correction, freeze clause exists in gens 2-4 as well. It's not just a gen 1 thing. Although gens 3 and 4 were much more recent.
Freeze clause is also in gen 3 if i remember correctly
Yes, it's so jirachi can't spam ice punch and get multiple 20% freezes with serene grace.
That’s something I didn’t know! I thought it was just for gen 1 because freeze was too good in that generation
Good luck with your new channel, glad you're getting some traction. I've only watched 10 seconds and I can tell you worked hard on this!
I've been following the competitive pokemon scene for a couple years now, but I still found this video really enjoyable, even if it was nothing I didn't know. I wish good luck on your YT journey. Keep it up, you make pretty good content in my opinion.
Thank you so much! I’m glad you still enjoyed it!
I'm amazed I'm coming across a TH-cam channel this early in its growth.
This was so good, its a shame I hadn't heard of this channel until now. Subscribed ❤
Something to note with trapping abilities vs trapping moves is that moves give the opponent an extra chance to switch out before being trapped. If I send out Arena Trap Dugtrio you need to predict it on the turn I switch since you're trapped as soon as it hits the field. If I instead send out Mean Look Umbreon you can still switch out on the same turn I use Mean Look.
For the swagger example, you didn't do a very good job of explaining why it's uncompetitive. it leaves the impression of, well why isn't confuse ray banned as well? and thunder wave? the emphasis of both confusion and swagger itself being nerfed in gen 7, it's wide learnset, and prankster + foul play would have helped flesh out your reasoning. also, the big yellow video isn't linked
not trying to be a hater, just giving constructive criticism. every other section was good
Oops, that’s definitely my bad for forgetting to link it.
And thank you for the constructive criticism. To be honest, I didn’t know a whole lot about the Swagger ban as it only popped up while I was already in the middle of writing the script. So that’s definitely my bad.
another big reason swagger is banned is because of how many physical attacking mons get own tempo and can essentially have an ally give them a free swords dance and attack in the same turn, and then use that same move to force opponents to coinflip. flatter isn't banned because its distribution is worse and special attack doesn't affect the damage you take from confusion.
@@kurusu1892 Swagger isn't banned in vgc which is the doubles format.
@@XenithShadow i was referring to gen 7 and 8 smogon doubles
gonna put every single one of these unfair strats in my ultra sun/ultra moon team to counter everyone spamming uber-tier megas in online battles
1:54 a while back...
A decade ago
It really was that long ago??
Dang I feel old….
Unrelated to the main theme here but it highlighted the Subscribe button the 2nd time you said it actually
Dumb bot didn't catch the first
Great video! Also very happy to see a fellow enby making content :3
This video’s really well made and really informative! I like it a lot, thank you for quality content and I hope you do more amazing stuff in the future!
Keep it up, this is well made and was extremely fun to watch
So man just came across your channel for the first time and you're soooo underrated like you have hood editing ( i liked the memes you add for a split second sonetimes ) good voice acting good script like everything i wonder how you aren't more known like keep going man and about the QOTD maybe you can talk about the other closes for specific gens like the baton pass or when those specific clauses u mentioned were different like in gen 3 when arena trap isn't banned also in i think gen 7 early sun and moon in stall teams . So keep up the good work man nice video ❤
Omg thank you so much for the compliments!!! I really appreciate it :)
Also thank you for the idea, that’ll probably be for the next episode of this series now (not the next video, next video I plan on doing something on another game)
Crazy you only have 300 subs. This is super good stuff
Oh my god thank you!!!
Love to see newer Pokemon creators pop up! Subscribed, hope to contact with you more 😁
I also think that something else to consider is the 1000 turn limit. If neither opponent can find itself a breakthrough vs the other team, a forced draw is applied. This works similar to endless clause
Nicely explained and edited video! Maybe your next video can explain the banned Pokemon you mentioned in the intro
Isn't there a batin pass clause as well in smogon ? Restricted use (only one type of stat can be passed) if I recall correctly.
Great video
Yes there is, however, the Baton Pass Clause varies amongst the generations in the way it is implemented, and the fact that it wasn’t on the universal bans and clauses list on the Smogon website meant that I didn’t get to talk about it.
i find the smogon "council" mainly just bans strategies and tactics that they personally cannot deal with.
Well, to be fair, the council is made up of people who generally have a lot of experience in competitive Pokémon, and it’s definitely not just a personal matter.
awesome video!
Love the video, but this is just my personal opinion. I feel like a lot of smogons rules actually limit your playability and ability to use certain strategies simply because it’s singles. Where is as VCG knows that singles is not a healthy competitive place to hold tournaments so they don’t all to often not only that, but the only rules that they have are for actual fairness of everyone as seen with the event clause And non-duplicate item clause which really do help people that can’t go and get those Pokémon or never able to and also does encourage unique and give some form of to which item which needs the hold or if it just works better on a different Pokémon I always felt like smogon had too many rules in place for their competitive format, but looking at it I guess it does kind of make sense because they play singles but still most rules in smogon limit creativity simply because they don’t want to find Waze or develop strategies to work around certain builds
Exactly which of these bans do you have a problem with?
So I’ll never be able to use my Sand Veil Cacturne with Bright Powder?
it could be cool to see specific format rules or something, like how arena trap isn’t banned in gen3 OU bc of its lower power level and junkkkkk
Am I allowed to have leftovers on one pokémon and black sludge on another one since they do the same thing
Yes, actually! That’s often what people did back in the day with Poison types like Amoongus.
@@TheSocialZombie Cool I tend to use it on my shiny Venusaur
Banning Swagger makes no sense if the confused status condition is not banned
Upon further research, it seems Swagger was banned because it combo’s very well with Foul Play. The strategy was often cited as being toxic by the smogon community.
It also doesn’t make sense to me, but considering confusion isn’t seen a lot of the time anyways, I think most people haven’t decided to ban it because of that fact.
It's because it's more feast or famine than just confusion. Your Mon hit by Swagger much more likely to kill itself thanks to the damage being doubled; meanwhile if you don't get unlucky you get a free Swords Dance which is insane.
@@byeguyssry Not quite true. You either hit your self in confusion with double damage or you get nothing, since only an idiot is going to swagger your physical attacking pokemon. The only case you physical attack gets swaggers is as a last ditch attempt to stop you setup sweeper. (or you switch a physical attacker into swagger)
Ive never heard of swagger clause! Interesting.
Is the other move (flatter i think?) also banned?
Flatter isn’t banned. This is mostly likely due to the fact that Flatter isn’t well distributed, and boosts Special Attack instead of Attack, which is not useful for confusion.
As a refresher, if a Pokémon hits themselves in confusion, they deal damage with a type less physical attack. Special Attack being raised doesn’t affect the damage done.
Also, another reason Swagger was banned was because it paired very well with Foul Play, a move that does damage based on the opponents Attack, not the user. Again, Special Attack isn’t accounted for here.
Flatter is basically just a confusion move that can only benefit the opponent, even with confusion. Therefore, it wasn’t banned.
I wanted a full team of rotom forms 😭 3:00
Unfortunate 😔
Though tbf most of the rotom forms are low tier so
Brah, you said there aren't any noguard pokemon that learn ohko moves but then you showed machamp, a noguard pokemon that learns fissure ??
As far as I can tell, the only way to get a fissure Machamp is by transferring it from Red and Blue. So while you are correct and I did make a mistake in stating that, in most of the generations aside from the very first, there aren’t any Pokémon that have No Guard and learn OHKO moves.
Fissure and No Guard, by some miracle, aren't legal on the same Machamp. The only way to get Fissure Machamp is to migrate it from Gen 1/2, but all pokemon migrated like that are forced to have their Hidden Ability. Machamp's hidden ability is Steadfast, not No Guard, and there's no way to change it.
@@natnew32 Oh wow scammed! I only know about it from showdown so I had no idea lol
@@natnew32 Ability patch remove hidden abilites. The reason there not legal on the same machamp is that pokemon home will delete fissure when you transfer machamp.
So the actually reason fissure machamp can't exist is because of dexit in gen 8 where alot of move and move sets and pokemon got removed.
@@XenithShadow At the time when it was first transferrable, ability patch didn't exist. And Fissure didn't need to go through home.
Imagine item clause in gen 2💀
You’d have like two Pokémon able to run an item lol
Thankfully doubles didn’t exist back then, so VGC isn’t played on that generation
Good video mama
I'm curious why did you delete your Minecraft videos?
I didn’t feel as though they really matched the level of quality I’m trying to strive for nowadays, so I unlisted them. I have them all in a playlist on my channel, but for the sake of keeping things simple, I had to remove them from the public page.
you did not explain at all swagger.
confuse ray also confuses the target yet it never got banned.
This is enough views to monetize, yes?
I think to get monetization i need more watch hours and subscribers
Vital spirit and insomnia abilities to the top ! Plz keep sleep cause lol
banning is to protect the whack from those who smash. thats all. only noobs ban
I don't agree with any of smogons bans, because i can beat all the pokemon smogon banned with little issue.
cute
peepeepoopoo! hahaha!!!