Competitive Pokemon IS Pay To Win (if you don't cheat...)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2023
- #pokemon #vgc #cheating
Hey everyone, in this video I aim to create a world championship team for friend and fellow youtuber @FreezaiPokemon . I'll be doing it completely legit, with no hacks, glitches, or cheats in any way shape or form.
I'll also be using tons of Pokemon games, be it Scarlet and Violet, Shield, Black 2, or Soul Silver. Join me on this Journey Across the Generations to get a world championship team!
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One thing I think needs to be mentioned is that with the 3DS eshop being shut down new players wont even be able to go back to those older games to transfer up if they don’t already have a 3DS with bank
Even worse with people with games from the gba or ds. Since unlike bank, pokemon transporter wasn't made free before it's closing
@@xangelxal4855 hacking your 3ds is incredibly easy and since they don't want to sell these things to us anymore its perfectly moral to pirate them. nintendo can kick rocks.
Lets also remember that not only was poketransfer not made free, but also unlike bank the less-mentioned poke transporter was never listed on the shop. Unless you knew it was a kind of dlc for poketransfer and knew to open it and download it, you could have gotten one and missed the other, like I almost did.
Theyre forced to mod their ds and it makes me so mad.
@Glassbox613 forced to? More like get to. I've had mine since Covid was in full swing, and I use it constantly. Playing a pokemon rom hack on the go is so nice, and being able to download whatever eShop stuff I want even with the service down is great.
As a really jaded adult who grew up with this series, I followed along with your great explanations. But I'd imagine this all to be mind numbingly confusing to anyone not familiar with the games.
And this is a series made for 10 year olds.
Why does Game Freak continue to get away with making products that are openly hostile to the consumers?
Because competetive Pokemon is not the focus of the Pokemon series. It is a jrpg in which youre supposed to catch funny creatures. I highly doubt the regular 10 year old cares about EVs, IVs, Natures and wanting to win tournaments.
You know, it's funny you say that it's made for 10 year olds. I always do these videos in the context of "Masters", which is the VGC tournament for adults.
But how the heck are junior and seniors, which are the two leagues for kids under 18 and like 12, getting these pokemon. They're fully dependent on parents for the mons.
I feel it’s cause Competitive Pokémon is a massive oversight that TPC tries to clout chase while also doing the bare minimum. It’s honestly sad how little they care to make the experience anything better then a hassle. Also remember the rewards for winning VGC is worse than winning TCG
May I ask: except for the topic of 0 IVs in a stat. What exactly has not been vastly improved with every Gen? It is so ridiculously easy to create a perfect Mon in Gen 9 with all the tools we have.
@@gondriano
Raids are a huge pain and are necessary for tera shards.
Availability of pokemon is split between games meaning if you want a 100% legal team without trading you have to have multiple games.This is only more frustrating with the recent bans cus if you got traded a hacked mon you can't use it even though trading is a mechanic that they want us to use.
Effort Values are either slow via wild battles or a huge amount of in game money. Breeding in gen 9 is inferior to gen 8 much slower and relies on sandwiches. Ability patches and other useful items are scarcely obtained. Resetting EVs requires berries that are hard to obtain. Getting apricorn balls requires you playing the league for a chance at getting the ball you want. all of this on top of 0 IV being one of the most important stats a pokemon can have and the limited time a person has to grind for all the items they would need is why despite all the improvements its still not enough.
The experience just isn't streamlined enough and just isn't worth the hassle.
If you play the game a lot and do lots of raids i'm sure you will have most of the items you will need but for those who play the game every other day or month those items are limited. There are many that only ever play the game during events, competitions or ranked so Hacking as a shortcut doesn't seem all too surprising.
It would be so easy to just let you see IVs in the menu with a button press... Like in every romhack ever
IVs are fairly easy to keep track of. EVs are the bigger problem.
You can see IVs in USUM easily
super stupid that they still have not introduced a "rusty bottle cap" type item that reduces the iv of a single stat to 0.
I feel like the bottle cap item should just let you specify what value from 0-31 the individual IV is.
Whats the benifit of an iv being 0?
@@Shero1337 for competitive batteling you sometimes want a stat to be as low as possible. For example in a trick room Team (slowest Pokemon moves first) you ideally want a 0 iv speed stat to be as slow as possible (as fast as possible under trick room). There are other examples, like taking less damage from foul play as a special attacker.
I used to think bottle caps made increased EVs 💀
also an ev graph, and iv graph that shows exactly how much ivs and evs you have, how many distributed in each stat, and how many are remaining
I wish people would focus on the biggest issue the fact several top sixteen matchs had to go sudden death because gamefreak cant run events properly literally changed the result of the tournament in the end
This is the true issue right here!!
For someone not invested too much into VGC, what does "sudden death" mean? Timer ran out?
@@DarkKerialstrazthey had network problems and disconnects and because it would take too much time to restart a match they had to do sudden death to get it over with quickly
@@DarkKerialstrazsudden death is first to ko an opposing pokemon wins
whoa, that's incredibly lame!
Imagine if you were playing soccer and all the sudden the ref just goes "ok it's shootout time!" after playing for 15 minutes. It's a different game with different strategies, as far as I'm concerned it kinda ruins the whole thing :/
Trade validation needs to have exactly as much scrutiny as tournament validation. If you could trade a rando for an Urshifu and be confident it wasn't hacked, that would greatly alleviate a lot of these concerns. If surprise trade can regularly give you a hacked pokemon, it's silly for them to suddenly pretend they care about genning during the world cup.
But if they had the same validation I'd be able to get a urshifu without buying sw/sh and the DLC and they would lose 90 dollars. They can do it, but they won't.
I had people on Reddit dogging on me for having this take.
The vast majority of people who gen Pokemon, push them through the trade system. Generating Pokemon is not accessible on the Nintendo Switch. They should just start bopping distributors and the problem would be nowhere near as prevalent. They also shouldn't allow hacked Pokemon to unintentionally end up on someone's game (i.e. through surprise trading). Players can't check if something is legit, they are just expected to know. It's stupid.
There are more cheat bots for raids and trades streaming on Twitch at any given time than there are people actually playing the video game.
@@SirenXD.They don't expect people to play competitive, that's the thing. Pokemon wasn't made with competitive players in mind, and will never be. That's the reason IVs and EVs exist, to differentiate every pokemon. TPC never wanted their games to be an e-sport, but people made them one. It's a constant struggle between what the fanbase (or just a small fraction, let's be real) thinks the game should be and what the company thinks it should be.
@@rafaelzamudio354 They lose money on the events, they added a ranked ladder, they continue to add items/resources in-game to make closing the gap easier. They literally run all of the events. They obviously want people to play.
Also, casual players shouldn't be getting hacked Pokemon either. Why would that be good for the game?
@@SirenXD. No, they were forced but TPC would gladly shut down all of that of they could. It's the same reason with Smash, those games aren't made with competitive players in mind, they want little Timmy to get a random Urshifu through wonder trade and use it against his friends or some random online, not on a high competitive level. For them, the Pokémon games are about having fun, not about killing yourself for a 0 IV Cresselia because she might get hit with Foul Play
I love competitive pokemon and completing my dex, but this is a perfect example why I’ll always just save the competitive part for Showdown.
Let's assume we start requesting a battle sim from now. It could take yrs for that to reach TPC's ears cuz we're a mere tiny percentage of ppl on the internet among the thousands of the competition base. & even when we do finally gain their attention & they become aware of the issues, it's no guarantee that they'd still opt to agree to our demand & all that commotion would be for nthg.
Also, we should point out that it takes 17 hours _per team._ And each time you compete in a tournament, the meta shifts so much with new pokémon introduced and new meta-breakthroughs. If you get into the top 9-16 consistently at each tournament, you need to make 5 teams, spending ~85 hours to get to to the finals at Japan.
Where did you get these numbers from? I've team prepped for a competition and although I have never made it to top cut putting the team proper together never took me that long. If you count the calcs and testing on showdown then the team takes about two dedicated days if everything goes right but the physical teambuilding takes a couple hours max between using mints, bottle caps, ability capsules, ability patches, exp candies, vitamins, training weights in the crater, and the newly added mochi.
@@CaptainSherbertTheQuestionable I got the numbers from the video. Idk, I've never made a team. I guess this was just a very time consuming team to make.
@@CaptainSherbertTheQuestionable are you saying the guy in the video just doesn't know how to build teams quickly?
@@rupert909 No. The techniques are right and some of them are done better than I can do them. Its more that he complains about the length of time taken to make teams by producimg a team in the most complicated way possible. I can make that team faster and with less games.
@@thepotatoportal69 In the way he did it yes very time consuming. The main issue I have is that for one he is defending cheating in competitions he doesn't compete in and second that he roughly tripled the length of time to build that team going for marks, shinies, and purposefully using as many games as possible. I could build the team faster and with less games.
I am at the point where you are evolving into Ursaluna. I think you should also mention that getting poke transporter now is impossible since the eshop closed. That is another barrier of entry for a new player
Oh yeah lmao you literally have to buy a 3DS that already has poke transporter and poke bank
Pokemon: Gotta buy em all! (Or youre screwed)
You can still get Transporter/Bank on any 3DS if you hack your 3DS and install the apps with the tools available on a hacked 3DS. It definitely shouldn't be necessary to do so, but at least it's possible (and relatively easy).
Oh yeah, this is a big problem here. I can't believe how Pokemon connectivity keeps on getting worse. I wish all these transfer services were both built into the games and fully functioning for every Pokemon and move, otherwise it loses a lot of the convenience and magic that is so important for the Pokemon series. The connectivity has always been my favorite part of the series, especially in gen 8 where the quality of life features allowed you to mix and match old movesets with newer Hidden abilities or Egg Moves. Heal Bell, Multiscale Dragonite is a really sick example of this
@@Quonoa hacking/genning led to the bans. Not sure if the answer to that is more hacking
It really makes you worry for how broken Okidogi, Monkidori, Fezandipiti, Ogrepon and Terapagos are going to be with the track record of DLC legendaries being treated as a vehicle to sell DLC like with Urshifu and Calyrex
Agreed, but also not happy that it costs this much to begin with. I have a lot of older games that I never sold, but NEEDING to get PLA for so many of the newer evolutions and hisuian forms as well as very possibly NEEDING SWSH and DLC for Urshifu is pretty unacceptable. truly a horrible horrible decision by TPCi
If leaks from around release are to be believed, one of the DLC's will theoretically have a comp Pokémon modifier that will let you pay to set stats, abilities, natures, etc. Will make the DLC a bit more P2W for Competitive, but will also provide much easier access to competitive than other current options if it's true.
Source for this leak was Khu, and Centro. They've had some misreads, but when this leak was dropped, just about all of their other predictions in that short timeframe came to fruition.
@ARoseUnheard
As much as people dislike the Dex cut, it's the best thing to ever happen. It stopped me from buying anything GameFreak or companies they let produce games releases after Ultra Sun/Moon.
@@AndrewH1994 How is it a horrible decision? For them its a great business choice because they now can sell more copies of that game + DLCs so their revenue gets higher. The issue rather lies with the fans being complacent and supporting this behavior by giving them more money.
@@AndrewH1994 It gets even worse when you realize that PLA is only highlighting a point that's going to become an issue in future console generations - that regional forms/evolutions are going to become more difficult to obtain consistently if they aren't constantly remaking those games or falling into the same design trap they tried to avoid with the location-based evolution methods in Generation 4 like the Eevee rocks or magnetized areas.
When people ask why I only play simulators and never buy the damn game.
No one has ever asked, no one has ever cared
@@Higunner6you cared enough to comment?
The RNG manipulation in this is fascinating, I have never known how it worked before
i couldn't stand his old vids for gen 5 and 4 rng manipulation, so this is better.
Also important to remember this is all for one team of six pokemon. And for a specific set for each mon. Back in rhe B&W days I remember genning like 6 different Jirachis, Landorus-T's, Tyranitars for different niches/teams like imagine you go through this whole process just to find out your team sucks/doesn't work in the meta.
oh the meta's changed and you need a different non-31 IV Cresselia now? welp, time to replay the entirety of Black/White 2
best case that's another 4 hours onto your grind
The Only way to obtain jirachi Is with another game or Pokémon TV, so It's a huge effort
I got my legit Jirachi from Channel yesterday
You also can get Jirachi when you have a save file from Sword/Shield and a version of BD/SP to obtain it there.
To be fair every competitive player just uses showdown to actually test their strategies, the only reason people grind together their own team is just so they dont have to deal with TPCs hack check which means most are created a couple of days before a tournament. Though, you still need to constantly create new teams throughout the year to keep up with the meta, and it says something about how awful TPCs treats their players that they're required to use an unofficial battle simulator just to test a team.
The worst part is, all of that struggle to find a 0ATK IV Cresselia is simply to avoid higher confusion damage, and higher foul play damage. That's theoretically it. Two fairly niche things.
Yeah, neither of which see a ton of VGC play. If people weren't so needlessly obsessed with 0 atk mons, you could get a vgc team within a couple of days.
@@GoldenSunAlexit's not needless if you play at a High level. Those things can make the difference between winning or losing and you can't accept a disadvantage due to lack of preparation.
@@theweirdlyfriendlymushroom7920 Yes, but my point is those aren't used at a high level. Unless you're doing a TR team, it's kindof meaningless. ospeed IVs aren't an issue to get unless you obsessively need 0atk ivs as well for something you'll never see.
@@GoldenSunAlex depends on the metagame. Earlier in the year murkrow was everywhere and he consistently runs full play, so in that meta It was needed to have 0atk IV. At worlds not many Pokemon used that move, but It was a possibility. It's not that in unseen so It cannot be ignored.
@@GoldenSunAlexI agree with this to an extent and I think it’s important to point out. But I don’t think this concern should be wholly dismissed. It’s simply optimal for cress to have zero attack, but I bet if we surveyed all of the cress at worlds, and crossed out all of the ones that were genned, most of them wouldn’t have zero attack for the reason you stated.
The truth is it’s not as bad as the video paints to get competitive mons in some senses because of several reasons, the main ones being that you don’t have to manip (/excessively breed non ledgends)to get perfect stats because of hyper training, and most of the time you want a stat to be zero it’s for optimization in niche scenarios. But for speed, it’s because you actually need it for your team to function better in every battle, not just the niche ones.
And even those niche scenarios can be the difference between winning worlds and loosing round 1 (because round one is often the most niche and most volatile, and sometimes loosing round1 does loose you the tourney(or at least a slot in top 8) by your resistance score.)
But in other senses, it’s worse than the video paints, as choosing not to manip/breed and use hyper training may save you time and the need to use other games at the cost of not having totally optimized mons, but also costs you expensive resources. And you must use those resources for other teams at least twice and win regionals both times to make it to worlds in the first place, so your resources Will go down if you’re not consistently playing raids.
I think a "showdown editor" should be rewarded to the player after they complete the game's full regional dex. It would incentive players to still catch them all. It would be a real treat that should be granted rather than force us to slowly farm or gen for our teams
I'd happily switch to console for all my games if they each had a showdown editor. Let's pray gen X gives us that
I would love that, but I doubt game freak would implement that in their newer games
@@dullah1434 this guy is living a pipe dream, no other game will ever make competitive game like pokemon will have such a thing given the average player doesn't even have the time to be competitive. The minority is whining and it is funny.
Ok, but for real, having a separate game for the competitive circuit and letting them pump out stories in other games would be amazing.
All of this could easily be mitigated if Gamefreak made an official "Pokemon Labs" or something, where the whole point is you are creating the most ideal team theoretically possible.
That way, the mainline games can focus more on the experience of catching and training Pokemon, and can even feature a low-stakes competitive mode purely meant for people to flex how much time they're willing to spend.
Or, better yet, just give us a way to customize our pokemon if we complete a game's Pokedex.
That idea does not give them the optimal amount of money therefore they won't do it.
TPC's only thought is making money, remember. You have to buy SW/SH and the dlc to get urshifu. Thats...what 90 bucks? You'd have to transfer him as well. Pokemon home costs money. A month subscription is about 3 bucks. More dollars in their pocket.
A pokemon lab would not be free. It'd probably cost the amount of a main game like 60 or 70 dollars. Or it would be a subscription service...maybe 30 bucks a year? That's a loss in coins for them. Therefore it's an irrelevant choice.
The problem is if they do this, *They will absolutely get rid of pokemon showdown & other "copyright infringers* . It's a miracle they didn't dmca them already
I mean, have we even considered how ABSURD it is that you're even allowed to bring your own potentially dubious switch and save file to worlds? League finalists aren't even allowed to bring non-regulation keyboards and so on.
Competitors should be re-creating their teams (or maybe duplicating them with a QR code) in an officially made closed tournament environment. Like EVERY OTHER GAME WITH A COMPETITIVE SCENE.
@@Highstar25 Honestly yeah. I wanna make a team on showdown and just show up and be like yo, scan my team in.
Or, just let you pick any team comp you want for multiplayer modes, like a built-in Pokemon Showdown. It's not that complex.
So about TMs specfically. I don't do comp, but I did love the TMs being reusable. Even for casual playthrough it was one more fun thing to collect, and having the complete TM set in your bag felt so satisfying, and then they changed it because gamefreak hates fun.
But it'd be fine if there actually only was one TM and it never breaks. Crafting is literally objectively worse than a system that already existed. And it's not a "trade-off" to get move reminder in the menu but remove reusable TM's, you could easily do both and it'd be a strict upgrade from any prior system the games have had but crafting exists (my personal speculation but let's be real) because a higher up said "people like crafting in games" and TMs were the only option for a system like that
@@axis8396 It is absolutely not "objectively worse". You can't say something is objectively true or a strict upgrade then say it's your personal opinion
Its worse no matter how you look at it! Wtf are you even trying to accomplish by saying it isn't?!
Freaking pokemon fans nowadays i swear they think everything is an attack on their beloved franchise.
@@HandheldGamer1991 no, i just care about game design. Consumable TMs lets them add crafting. Therefore, to people who like crafting, it's better. "no matter how you look at it" it's clear you only know how to look at it your way. How arrogant
@@magica3526 "It adds crafting so people who like crafting will like it" is such a weird take. People who like crafting systems don't just like any crafting because it is crafting. It has to actually add something to the game. Taking something you could already do and hiding it behind a grind isn't actually interesting.
Like was said at the end I really like the idea of just making a game specifically for competitive battles like Pokemon Stadium 3. They could let you use any Pokemon from across the series so the dex cuts in the main games wouldn't be an issue anymore and of course the game would be updated for free whenever a new generation came out. If they still wanted to limit Pokemon for balance/variety reasons then maybe they could have different formats that only let you use a certain pool of Pokemon that changes every season or whatever. Meanwhile the main series games could focus more on being good single player RPGs that still kept trading and unranked online battles so you could still play with your friends.
I would love battle revolution style it had great animations and killer battle arenas
@@YoungDolan very true, if only they still made those, really makes me wonder why they stopped.
Man, I really felt that rant at the end, not everyone has the same life experiences for sure. I'm 28, violet and Legends of Arceus are the first pokemon games I've played since I was a kid playing emerald on an emulator. We were poor and I was never able to get my hands on a real pokemon game until I was an adult.
Don’t forget that to get both iron hands and flutter mane you need both scarlet and violet
Union circle possible, but i doubt your friends want to not touch their switch for 6h
If you use union circle, you can encounter and catch pokemon from the opposite version.
@@W.T.F599unless they patched it isn't union circle really awful in area zero because you can't see the other person?
The parallel game exclusivity thing is the Scam Game Freak run ever since day 1.
@michaelbond220 now that you mentioned it, as far as I know they haven't patched that yet.
it should really be like playing on a sim... if you wanna play in the tournament you just get to write your own team. like you said they could even sell a game that is made for competitive play and that's it. they would capitalize on all the people playing competitive on sim.
Oooh no :(((( but that would cost 60 euros and that's P2W according to the person who made this video :(((( Lmao
@@Zindril No, that's literally the opposite, if there was ONE game that handled ALL competitive, that didn't require separate versions, DLC, or paying for an external transfer system it would be perfect for competitive.
Also Man that message makes me want a new Battle Revolution or Stadium game where the main focus is battle towers and unique battle machanics
@Zindril He didn’t count the cost of violet and scarlet with the reason of duh
Stadium had rental pokemon, they know they could develop a system like that for actual pokemon tournaments
@@Zindril The point of the video flew so far over your head it went into orbit holy fuck
I think the overall time might be a lot higher (to assemble a full team of competitive pokemon) since a lot of techniques may or may not be known well enough to the general public. like how to manipulate RNG to "create" the perfect pokemon egg.
Any player who strictly abides to a 100% legitimate way without abusing any glitches or hidden techniques might take so much longer its not even worth trying. Doing research does eat up a lot of time aswell
i love how you didnt even consider doing this without rng manipulation
ah yes, I'd love to jack up the time required to do this by like 20 times. and this is just blisy, y'know. it isn't them if there isn't rng manip
literally the entire purpose of the rng manipulation is to give them the benefit of doubt, and assume that you get a perfect mon within your first roll
without rng manipulation the time would be WAAAAY longer and would be different for everyone.
either way it sucks
If he didn’t rng manip, this team prob wouldn’t have been finished by the end of the week. Literally not enough time while also juggling life duties and sleeping
You should build the team on showdown at the end of these vids to really drive the point home imo
that would be a brilliant ending lol
@@vanesslifeygo no he went through enough pain. his point was proven.
I tried it and it took less than six minutes lmao.
@@awesometoadultimate8562 genning? lol
@@baddaybakingI didn't gen I just recreated the team on Showdown.
Imagine if you'd gone for 0 Attack Heatran\Cress without RNG manip...
I thought about using BDSP and doing that for real
Imagine.
@@imablisythat would have been masochistic. For your own sanity I’m glad you didn’t
Probably would've been easier if he just didn't go for Shiny.
@@DraculHemminguhm no, doing that in BDSP will still take hours. Shiny and perfect IV with RNG manip in gen 5 will take the same amount of times without the shiny give or take few minutes.
Playing any physical sport is gonna include strength and conditioning, or something similar, that isn't a part of the sport. Seeing someone complain about spending 18 hours to prepare for a tournament is really, really weird for someone that comes from physical sports.
this is not the same as strength & conditioning. Pokemon does not have an equivalent to that lol.
@@imablisy how not? When I box, my body is my tool. You need a bare minimum to fight at a competitive level. It appears pokemons creators see it similarly. You train your body, learn how to fight, and win your fight. You train your team, learn how to fight, win your fight.
If playing pokemon is too hard of a task before fighting pokemon, why not just hold tournaments on smogon or whatever
This review is a little biased imo. They don’t have to be shiny and you don’t have to buy more than the base SV and the Sw/Sh DLC plus have one switch if you have friends that play pokemon. Let’s remember that you can get your S/V version exclusives from union circle for free(because you can’t breed them) and you can borrow games from a friend because the save file isn’t on the cart for the switch it’s on the console memory. You don’t have to buy *everything* to own. As for 0iv pokemon, you can breed the breedables easily, chain breed an already caught 0iv (atk and or speed - which statistically you’ll have in a box somewhere end of game if you caught enough pokemon to complete the pokedex) to the right species using the power items, which shouldn’t take more than an hour or just hatch eggs with no destiny knot and roll the 1/32 chance until you get it for 0iv you want an mint and bottlecap the rest to 31. For legendary pokemon and paradox/unbreedables soft reset (or RNG) the 0ivs and then mint and bottlecap the others.
Here's some additional thoughts:
-VGC players could either spend 16 hours in the A button simulator or 16 hours practicing and theory crafting their teams
-The meta is constantly evolving with pokemon going in and out of favor. You might have to completely change your team to respond to meta shifts which would set you back an additional 16 hours
-It is very easy to evade the legitimacy checks they use at VGC events and so it's quite low risk if you're careful about where you gen mons from. Therefore every top player will be at a disadvantage by doing it legitimately
-Competitive singles has completely abandoned the physical games in favor of pokemon showdown. VGC also could go that way. With tPC becoming more anti player for the purposes of greed we might see more top cut players decide to put the money spent on flights, accom and entry fees into community run tournaments with similar prize money
If the VGC community left for _Showdown!_, we could see TPC actually clamp down on PS! as a service. We could lose all competitive Pokémon outlets that aren’t “official”.
I think the second point is the biggest thing. The meta is constantly evolving, and it just got injected with like 400 new Pokemon. People will want to try new and wacky teams, but the sheer tedium of training up some random Monferno or Avalugg is inevitably going to stifle any desire to try new things. Why would I want to spend literal hours on a meme that might not even work, when I could spend a few minutes genning the Pokemon I need and spend those hours actually testing the team?
im just wondering how these people got caught genning. i remember the last time i used the program, there were ways to "legitimize" the genned pokemon, giving them legit caught area/time/date/movepools/etc so in theory all the metadata behind the pokemon would be 100% possible and thereby "legit". were these people just not careful enough?
@newp0rt Because they're either reckless, stupid or new to it. The specially stupid one I remembered was the idiot who took a full shiny team into vgc and none of them had a home id nor visited the game they evolve in
@@newp0rtiirc they used a trading bot to make their genned mons. Unbeknownst to them, that bot accidentally deleted metadata, which allowed the anti-cheat measures to catch them. People that manually genned their mons probably slipped under the radar, as per usual.
I think for competitive, all players should be given genned pokemon created by the tournament officials based on a list given by the competitor. All competitors already have to submit a list which completely details the team they are using, so why not also eliminate the "cheating" aspect and have a neutral playing field.
plus as well that's a good way to minimise any cheating impacting actual games since all Pokémon that get into a battle have been green lit by an official. any illegal sets are caught before the first game even starts
hah, yeah imagine TPC removing a paywall that makes them free money
That’s not a bad solution. I think it will still make genning necessary because people need to practice teams and tweak IVs (assuming you aren’t using external sites like Showdown), but at least for tournaments that eliminates the possibility of breaking the no-genned Pokemon rule entirely.
@@commonpepe2270but this would lower the barrier to enter, which would make more players eager to enter competitive pokemon, which would elevate tournaments players and make them more money overall. And it would make it easier for players to find cooler strategies, which would make for cooler games and it would make it easier to be shared with people that don't care about VGC. I agree that in the short-term they would probably lose some money, but I believe that in the long-term it would elevate pokemon to a real e-sport event like LOL.
@@Marcos.ribeiro94 the truth is...Pokemon was never made to be an Esport to begin with. Only a vocal minority wanted it to be like LoL
I don't think you mentioned that the transfer minigame from gen 4 to 5 also required you to have two DS's to do.
This is why I laugh at the transferring was free people. No it really wasn't outside of gen 3 to 4. At best it was cheaper in previous gens.
Sobs in despite having a ds lite and both platinum and heartgold I still couldn't transfer stuff from Pokémon Sapphire
RIP my shiny shuppet
also you cant use the older pokemon anymore
Holy shit, this is what has become of my little yellow carriage game. I understood none of the terms in this video, but watched all the way through. Thanks for the enterainment.
Hearing you built Freezai’s team for worlds to display both of your talents and prove a point is some legendary shit.
The only point he proved was how much people in this community bitch about pointless shit. How many worlds teams won't have a single mon outside of sv? Saying you need to spend 200$ so you can get 2 mons who have no good evs in speed is the most cucked crybaby shit ever, and I hardliners COD in the mod days. I'm willing to bet you if you polled everyone at worlds 90%+ would say they buy every pokemon game at launch just in case they want something from them, and to stream them. This is like cry about tcg being pay to win because you need to buy boosters. Kids gonna cry I suppose.
@@michag4337Stop crying
@@Remsster bruh the irony. this is a 50 minute video on why you should be aloud to hack because actually playing a game built for 10 year olds is to hard.
Heres an idea: do a video on how much time you have to take off from work to qual for worlds. how much time you'd have to take off for worlds. How much the plane ticket and hotel cost...bet it's over the cost of 2 games and live service...
This is just a cry baby "I got banned for breaking the rules, but the rules are stupid, SEE!" video. I seriously don't understand how people can get on with this guy crying about such stupid things.
@@michag4337 Let me see if I understand your point here: You're claiming that the total cost of competing is way higher than is implied here, and so it's totally fine that the Pokémon collection process is this costly, and everyone who's at worlds just buys all the games anyways so who cares that it's not an accessible format.
Why do you want it to be prohibitively expensive to play this game at a high level? Even if it is the case that many players won't need all the particulars here, if this gives you an advantage (i.e. having the old games on hand to get 0 attack/0 speed IV Pokémon for specific team comps) then I see it as a problem. What about players that only started in the last 4 or 5 years? Even if they do buy every game as it comes out, they certainly don't have those older games on hand. Pokémon showdown has lowered the bar to becoming good at competitive Pokémon, and has created tens of thousands of competitive Pokémon fans (as well as some amazing players) in the process. Can you imagine if the actual competitive scene was as accessible as Showdown was? Maybe the best people would still be the same, and it wouldn't change much at the top, but I can guarantee you it'd grow the player population by an order of magnitude. Maybe try gatekeeping a children's game a bit less, and start thinking about the bigger picture.
@andrewscott5059 could you imagine if the nba just made the rim 8 inches wider, and lowered it 2 feet, hiw much more accessible the game would be?
My complaint with this is no one going to worlds is hurting for money to buy old games. That's my issue. Everything else is moot because if you can't afford old games to roll Uber meta mon, you can't afford to go to worlds. So if you have a solution to the cost prohibition of taking roughly 2 weeks off of work, flying halfway around the world, and staying in a hotel or air bnb, then we can address the much smaller issue of allowing mons from other games in the competitive scene. This is literally like someone complaining about the cost prohibition of e85 regs for stock drag. Yea nevermind the fact that the cost of a car to just Qual is 200k+ lets focus on the 10k engine mod to run e85 efficantly....
It's important to mention that many people don't know about these RNG manipulations and someone could argue that this isn't the way TPCI wants you to get you Pokémon as much as genning
Playing pokemon online is not fun because raising a good team is impossible for normal players
@@SlimeBlueMS So what you're saying is, genning/hacking is the solution to a problem genning/hacking caused.
@@BadgerpawNo. They are saying genning is a solution to the problem of requiring insane amounts of grinds.
The thing that buffles me the most is that people even go the long run to do ALL this just to COMPETE in a game where damage rolls and critical hits are a thing.
League has severe rng over the course of a game and is the worlds most popular esport, rng is inherently more balanced in turn based games because you don't have to respond within a few frames to getting rnged you can make up the difference by adjusting your gameplan, you cannot do that in real time in something like league
@@kennydg4979 Yeah, but as far as I know, League does not require this amount of grinding.
@@kennydg4979still doesn’t justify the massive time and monetary costs
Before bottle caps, mints and ability patches and without RNG manipulation, all this training would take significantly longer for regular Pokemon and be basically impossible for legendaries. So it's cool how those things exist. What would be nice is a way to lower IVs too for trick room users and to reduce confusion damage.
I think it may be worth it to make a video showing how much easier it would be to make this team on showdown. If someone doesn’t know it might be mind-blowing to realize the other option takes about 5-10 minutes.
99.9% of vgc players test on showdown. None of them would be suprised.
@@CaptainSherbertTheQuestionable I am not talking about them. I am talking about a fan that doesn't actually play or make competitive teams at all.
@@CaptainSherbertTheQuestionable and 99% of people watching this video arent in the vgc
@@johntaylor1189thing is, you cant play on showdown for real tournaments. Showdown is for playtesting or for very casual people
Since Freezai made the team, putting it into showdown would take 3 seconds: 1 second pressing ctrl-C, 1 second switching tabs, 1 second pressing ctrl-v and clicking "import"
That tm thing was the killer for me. Making you farm stuff like that is so stupid. What they really should have done is made them craftable once and then infinite use. They could have even purposely slowed it down by forcing you to find static encounters that drop 1 time items used to craft the tms. That way you’re encouraged to explore even more and travel the whole area looking for these static encounters.
But you can get each tm in fix locations in the over world tho, am I missing something here
@@Royal_MilkTeaif you already used them before, like for previous teams that are now useless because if the ever changing meta game, you have to craft them.
thats easily one of the coolest features added in this. it feels great to go out there and hunt specific pokemons for a TM instead of just number chrunching. and it really isn't time consuming at all. you get there, you kill like 50 of those guys and are set to craft hundreds of these TM's. you do this ONCE and you are set. And you typically do this while still just playing and enjoying the game, before tournaments even come up in your mind.
I maybe had to farm Items again like 2 or 3 times ever, which then again only takes like 15 minutes.
@@Royal_MilkTea Yeah, you are missing that Gamefreak took out something that was already loved as in permanent tms and replaced it with an arbitrary crafting system. Doesn't matter if there are fix locations or not. The whole tm system was already fixed.
it would be simple to do as well with just making infinite tera shards + tms a thing thats unlocked after completing the main story(s)
its kind of neat to have this video like a few months before the dlcs where dropped since all of the mons besides hisuian form ursaluna are in the game now sure you cant get the legends shiny but now you could just pick up tera shards in batches of 10 up to 20 just a very neat comparison in only a few months
This is all to play at a high level though right? Compare this to any high level competition and financially as well as time-wise this is a low investment.
One point that I don't see a lot in the debate around this year's world championships is that the Regulation D format that it was played in, the format that introduced all of the transfer-only meta staples like Urshifu, Tornadus, Cresselia, Heatran, Ursaluna etc., has only been around for perhaps a month - until about three or four weeks before Worlds, the assumption was that the format would be Regulation C, as was the case for every other tournament for the last few months. TPCI dropped this new format as a surprise after every other tournament in the 2023 circuit had finished, and every worlds competitor was given a MONTH to not only learn and adapt to a brand new metagame, but to track down all of these new and highly relevant Pokémon that were unavailable in the base game, transfer them across, and build their teams as blisy did in this video, and then test them out and make changes as needed ... or else cut out the middleman and gen those teams in. I can almost guarantee that over half of the teams at this year's Worlds were hacked, at least in part, because with that kind of time constraint the whole process just wasn't really feasible. The hack checks and DQs and Worlds really only catch Pokémon that weren't genned meticulously to be identical to their legit equivalents, but even so, TPCI really set players up to fail with this one
If you guys actually played the games.. getting these pokemon does not take that long. This proves most players do not invest time into the game therefore they complain about accessibility. I got all the legends arceus pokemon trained and with proper movesets in less than a day. Why? I actually played my game regularly and accumulated resources. You know.. the way the game was intended to be played
@@MrDev1718 We do play the game, stop being a troll.
@@MrDev1718it takes far too long to get the meta mons using very clunky mechanics. That and you need like 4 games to get these in a non-cheating way exactly how it fits in the meta.
@@beanoptodon it really does take long. Cut it out. Like i said earlier, if you played the game (even casually) the resources would accumulate and you can make whatever mon you want
But at the same time, if people had been playing the games, they'd already have urshifu, enamorus, etc, or at least extremely quick access to them
I actively enjoy VGC, but I also actually play the main games. It's worth prepping and getting pokemon that may eventually be relevant, especially when things Like Urshifu were already relevant back in sword and shield. That really isn't an excuse, especially when these games don't take that long to beat, easily doable in 2 or 3 days, and get access to those pokemon. With the only possible exception of Enamorus, because legends is a massive grind, but even then, there's ways of easily bypassing that by just trading with other people to register the pokemon.
I was excited to enter my first VGC tournament this year because it was super accessible to make a team! And by "super accessible" I mean it took like 8 hours for me to get everything because I was not picky about 0IV in attack for special attackers and I didn't run trick room. With this new regulation, competing seems to be a nightmare. Also in terms of cost, you also did not consider the necessary cost of Pokémon Home in order to even have the ability to transfer your old Pokémon from older games into Scarlet or Violet.
It costs more to travel to these events in the first place. If you can't afford the games and pokemon home in the first place, then you have bigger problems in life in general. Saving $600 within the span of 3-5 years is not that hard. You just have to be responsible with your expenses. Use some logic and math and you'll figure out that the costs is very minimal compared to the travel and everything else that is involved with VGC.
@@Jake38nine if I buy literally any other competitive video game, I don't have to buy several other video games to be at a fair level of competition as my opponent. You also need to consider that this is a children's game. A kid will have a very hard time convincing their parents that they need to buy two more $60 games and $30 DLC for one of them in order to have a fair shake in tournament.
I don't know why you're defending the multi billion dollar corporation here
@@WombatFights We're not talking about kids. We're talking about vgc adults. Plus, it's even harder to convince mom and dad to TAKE YOU TO THE EVENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE because travel costs a hell of a lot more than a video game. Every parent will tell you that travel costs more. But we're talking about adults who make their own money, and if they can't afford $200 per year for a couple games, then they can't afford the traveling expenses it takes to go to MULTIPLE events. Because you need to compete in multiple vgc events to even qualify for worlds. I'll bet you vgc players spend more than $1,000 on travel expenses, such as travel, food, and hotels, and miscellaneous stuff they buy from going to the events than the cost of the games.
None of you are even complaining about how vgc is inaccessible to majority of people who play pokemon because they can't afford to travel to multiple events every year. None of you are even mentioning how vgc events should be done online for every player to have a chance to compete.
And that shows exactly why vgc players are spoiled, entitled little brats who only complain when things don't go their way. They don't care how much it costs for someone who is NOT local to get to the events. They don't care how much it costs for someone who can't afford all the technology involved in getting hacked mons.
So all of these arguments are invalid because it doesn't take into account all of these other things. It only ever takes into account the entitlement of the players who can already afford everything involved with competing.
I don't see Wolfe doing $10,000 giveaways to his audience to give them a chance to compete I'm vgc tournaments. I don't see any vgc players pitching in to help other players compete by paying for their travel expenses.
So until the majority of the vgc event actually cares about all of these things, then the arguments are null and void.
@@Jake38nine Allow me to give you a different perspective. I run Super Smash Bros tournaments. You don't actually need a copy of the game to compete. Sure, owning the game will help you practice, and maybe the character I want to play might be $6 DLC, but I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours of my time to in order for my character to be usable in a competition. As blisy explained in the video: the "skill" of building your team; and the skills of actually learning matchups, making good choices, predictions, etc. are two entirely unrelated skill sets. I can see from your novel that you're not going to change your mind about this, but as someone who has over a decade of experience in competitive video games, Pokémon is one of, if not the most heavily gatekept competitive game around. This amount of time and money required to compete is not normal.
@@WombatFights You ignored my argument about the costs and how not every player who wants to get involved can. You need to learn how to actually argue and debate because when you ignore half a person's argument, you lose the argument. Also, people in sports spend much money on coaching and equipment than any vgc player. Heck, professional chess players spend more on coaching. And I'll bet there are vgc coaches put there making you spend money on them, so that adds to the cost of competing. You aren't arguing against any other costs of competing besides the games themselves, and that's where your argument fails. If you can't take into account all the other costs of competing and try to advocate for everything to be cheaper, then you're making a bad faith argument.
These videos are amazing, what a great idea, thank you!
As someone who has zero knowledge of competitive Pokekon I assumed at an event every 'mon would be the equivalent of "hacked", none of this stuff required. The fact that it is required is on one hand obviously ridiculous, but on the other hand I kind of like how the difference between the best players and everyone else is at least partly how the Pokemon are raised and the effort that goes into it. Seems very fitting for what the game is!
But yeah, it's mostly just ridiculous 😂
I really enjoyed building my team, I wanted them to all be shinies as well, so to get IVs correct with the right nature and making sure it was shiny was a pain, although it was very fun from my perspective and felt much more rewarding. Only thing is when you're building a competitive shiny pokemon team, shiny charm is a must so completing the pokedex was another fun challenge in of itself
im sorry im super new to this, but so you would hunt shinys with specific IVs as well as the correct nature and train them without using any of the items like bottlecaps mints etc? im interested in building a team the long way to feel that sense of accomplishment but im not sure if it just makes more sense to feed my current shinys items to fix their stats/nature
@@PhilReotardoyeah people are making it way too complicated. Unless you’re going a trick room team and want a 0 speed iv Pokémon that’s really the only time. Just use bottle caps and mints that’s what I do. I will masuda method a shiny and since it’s easier to control the IVs I will try to make them all 31 with the correct nature
It's honestly insane how a multi-billion dollar company that owns the largest single IP on earth cannot create a fair, balanced, or competently ran competitive metagame.
Thats because competitive Pokemon Is just a byproduct of the game and not the main focus. Imagine trying to overwhelm the main demographic with all this competitive mechanics only a handful of the total fan base cares about.
@@diegomedina9637 This. Pokémon's target audience has never even heard of IV's or EV's. They're the people who still believe Mew is under the truck. They don't care about competitive, they just want their plushies, so why should GF care about something that could potentially turn the casuals away from Pokémon.
Now, *this* is exactly the reason why we need a return of the Stadium series or some equivalent, a big competitively-appealing game with all 1000+ Pokémon that just connects straight to Home focused solely on the battles, like the old Gen 3-4 days of VGC tournaments running on Colosseum, XD and Battle Revolution.
It’s pretty simple actually, the execs are in it for the money
Because creating a meta with an rpg is an impossible task...especially when said rpg is a video game.
@@diegomedina9637 this is mostly false. competitive Pokémon brings in some of the highest viewership out of all esports, on top of that most players beat the game once, do all the side content then never play again, meaning that after the initial flood of players dies down, all thats really left is the hunting crowd and the competitive crowd. And thats not even bringing up smogon which daily has peaks of 30k players. Competitive pokemon is a huge part of the community, its far beyond its grassroots now
While I don't play Pokemon anymore I love these competitive Pokemon videos
It really shows how much effort the tournament players go through to make a stacked team for player vs player fights.
Cheats shouldn't exist as the moves should be easier to obtain. Same with old pokemon letting you pick your hidden power type too. So many things that would save on time
Any time longer than 5 minutes is too long, as genning would still be faster.
Tournament players don't go through any of this. That's why they were getting pokemon removed from their teams lol
They don't do this and this video is supposed to show the reasons why they don't, which shows it well other than like the ribbon stuff.
Right its like piracy. If you were providing a better service, you wouldnt have to worry about piracy, and if tpc had an accessible game they wouldnt have to worry about genning.
@leaffinite3828 False. People would still pirate movies, games etc
I feel like this is unnecessarily creating more complexity in demonstrating, since S/V have easily obtained items for Nature changing as well as IV maxing. I understand looking for exact values like the 29/0 values, but you don't need to catch them at 31, you can bottle cap for those, right?
PS, named Ursaluna Gorgug? Are you also a D20 fan?
If I am going to get a Pokémon with a 0 attack using rng, or 0 speed, then getting it with 5 ivs is no more time consuming. I mean you saw that in this video. Cresselia was faster than hands or flutter mane
Some thoughts to share and I do also understand your points and they are all valid:
1- its rewarding being able to bring pokemons that I had in the past games to scarlet to play, as an older player its also rewarding and makes me wanting to play the game more, because i feel as these pokemons will be in another game with me again.
2- in sword/shield they made a grind session to catch legendaries, it could be implemented something like it in the next dlc. Grinding is part of pokemon game
3- I play magic the gathering for quite few years (15 or so), and to enter without nothing in “legacy” is pretty expensive as an average deck can cost more than 2000 usd. I think it would be cool to also implement something as tcg (for example regional categorias allowing only version pokemon and other categories allowing all pokemons etc.)
When I watched your last video about making a competitive team in Scarlet and Violet, I was like "huh, that seems like a lot, but there's probably not much else to talk about until the DLC, gonna miss this video series", and then Game Freak hit me with the "Are you sure about that"
Also, thank god you didn't need Enamourus on your team, getting a 0 Attack 0 Speed Trick Room Enamourus-Therian will probably go down as the most tedious grind for a Pokémon in history, with a full playthrough of PLA required for each reset.
Dude, for real, I'm so glad that Flutter Mane outclasses Enamorus for this reason 😂
Thank god showdown exists so people can at least be sure their teams are good before putting in all the time to actually realise them
Nah I'll just play on showdown where there's rules. Not gonna make a competitive team just to be evasion spammed in the main game.
@@huh4484Evasion Spam is banned in VGC…?
Easy solution, when you get to the tournament you have a team sheet, fill it out and they prepare your team and supply you a rental code.
They wouldnt even need to gen the pokemon, then can literally just manual upload the team. Create a "closed" network just for tournaments or aomething
I didn't hear you mention it if you did, but also keep in mind you're on one of the most efficient grinds.
If I did this same grind, I would have to re-beat Soul Silver and White 2 as I lost my copies and as such have no saves. I would have to beat Gen 8 and Arceus, as I haven't played the former nor beaten the latter.
I can semi-understand the anti-hacker argument if the competition limits itself to just Pokemon caught in SV (not for previous games as they get less accessible as you go back, time investment on Battle Tower/Maison is ugh). But opening it up to past games just re-opened the competitive floodgates you mentioned and the gatekeeper that is time.
Even in SV, the existence and competitive value of 0 Speed and 0 ATK at least warrant some modification, since you can't increase the odds of 0s or reverse-Hyper Train.
I was an RNG manipper back in 4/5, and will always be ok with hacking functionally-legal mon for competition because of the very contents of this video.
Time for us to see how much Pokemon back stepped within a "single generation "
A lot. possibly more than a lot. it basically puts up a paywall for anyone who recently got into pokemon with gen 9, or skipped playing PLA and also strongly suggested to have the SWSH DLC to be able to get Urshifu, and at some later point probably to also get Calyrex and the ponies
@@AndrewH1994and even if you were someone who played all those game at launch and decided retro actively you're gonna have to playthrough the DLC again if you wanted RegiEleki instead of RegiDraco or something. Literally could've been me, but I decided to not play comp because of how SV released, which really sucked for me as I would've had fun with SV regional dex format tbh. Although now we know that isn't the format...
The new norm nowadays is be happy with whatever amount of pkmons are in a game. Sadly they found out, people are gonna buy their games anyways even with cut content. Long lost are those days when you could skip a gen coz they'll be adding the current & previous gen mons to the upcoming gen. Nowadays every games are unique in their own ways so you don't get to skip. I'm happy I stopped right in gen 7. Gen 8 is when they started cutting content. I do play rom hacks from previous gens here and there, pokegening the heck of it. I'm not spending my lifetime breeding eggs and resetting so you get the right IVs, abilities and whatnot. I'm currently not supporting this cashgrab culture and not interested in online features, competitive and whatnot. I might try gen 8 when i get my hands to a hacked switch. Offline features that is.
@@ritogamo9830 👍
Boycott this shit. The best thing you can do if you need to scratch the Pokemon itch? Play Showdown VGC. Learn OU or any of the lower tiers. Play older gens or hackmons.
With Scarlet and Violet they have added good features for players to build good Pokémon, I think that they add at least a way to farm (effectively and not just spam 400 raids for X amount of shards ) the Tera Raid Shards, make a way to reduce IV's (precisely), a faster way to train EV's, it would "end" the need for hacking, genning, RNG manip, etc...
(Some people would still do it but it's better than nothing.)
Plus something that a lot of people tend to forget is that there are many ramifications to VCG, including Juniors, and from the comments I have read online from certain TH-camrs they expect a 11y old kid at the age of 6 own a Switch, Sword and DLC, and spend his time farming a Urshifu so 1 day MAYBE it would be good for Tournaments...
It's just insane to see how unaccessible certain teams are if you don't know the strategies shown in this video.
I totally agree that there should just be a game for competitive players that gets updated as new titles are being released.
My only experience in somewhat competitive team building was with bd and sp, where it's kinda necessary to grind for a perfect IV ditto in order to breed the mons you want. And ngl it's the most tedious thing I've done in my entire life. Sure, the procedure is easy to grasp but so luck dependent that it makes me sick.
Amazing video! Just when I was doing my research to decide if I wanted to play VGC (been a showdown player for over a decade).
Now I'm still on the fence about doing this since I'm missing a few of the old games and hate timesinks like this.
Now do that without RNG manipulation, like gamefreak intended! lol I remember how tedious it was to breed for perfect IVs/egg moves/ability/nature on the older games.
Definitely think they should bring back Stadium for the competition circuit.
Prices for changing tera types are also ridiculous, and one of the worst things about this mechanic.
If things have to stay integrated with mainline and competitive, I feel like they could significantly improve things by not having so many legendaries, bc then breeding would be much more viable for competitive.
no, the games should simply be good instead.
@@renatoramos8834 the games don't have to be "good-" especially not as defined by whatever arbitrary metric you think that encompasses- to have a healthy metagame, which is the focus of this video.
I get that the upper echelon of any competitive game should be hard to achieve, but nothing about training a team for Pokémon sounds remotely fun, accessible, or intuitive for you average player. It really feels a bit unobtainable. The separation between a competitive player really seems to be time and money when it should be skill and whit. Like I thought the TCG was pay to win, but damn...
The amount of nintendo fanboying in the comments is wild. Your playthrough team of 4 pseudos, your starter and a box legend is not going to win any tournaments. These are the same type of people to faint when you show them a romhack. If you want to raise your pokemon then do so, but there's an equal if not larger market for competitive battling where there's no room to leave out small details.
This is a great way to break down the issue that game freak have created and show why genned Pokémon are so prevalent.
My opinion is that they should simply bring back the concept of rental Pokémon from WAAAY back on the N64 and allow players to generate competitive teams within an official rental facility entirely divorced from progress in the single player game. That way there's no need for genning, the massive barrier to entry is completely removed allowing new players to actually try competitive without being immediately stonewalled, and they don't even need to check everyone's Pokémon in tournaments.
Or they could just remove the random elements from your Pokémon build for competitions. Make every Pokémon have the same mid IVs in online battles, so that only lvl, EV training and moveset matters for the strength of your Pokémon. That way you could get the exact Pokémon that you caught during your Playthrough to be competitively viable, which sounds a kot cooler to me than building up some random, perfect IV mon from scratch.
There are rental teams in S/V
@@kristenroberts4502 there are. The problem is you can only rent a team, you cannot rent individual pokemon, alter the team in any way or generate your own and use them later, all you can do is borrow a complete team that somebody else has registered.
But the fact that the feature exists means that a full suite of options is possible, if game freak could be arsed.
@@LRM12o8Yeah, that sounds awesome! Seriously, they already set levels to 50, why not set all IVs to 31? That wouldn't even screw with Hidden Power anymore, since that got Dexited.
@@LRM12o8natures?
I don't like the current meta at all and this here is one of the reasons.
That i need to get an decade old game for easy to get competitive pokemon is stupid.
I really liked the video and lets hope we get Showdown on the switch.
Can't you play on the browser?
@@Flygonnerrs well I think its because he wants it to be portable since showdown on phone just sucks and ppl dont like to carry laptops everywhere
@@Glizzyman also i meant an official version of showdown from gamefreak so that we don't have to spent hundreds of dollars on older games just to get 1 singular pokemon and to use in turnaments
@@icebrorottenmushroom1817 that makes more sense but gamefreak would put a price on it atleas, but it would be nice to have though I dont see it happening at all its suprising we even have showdown as it is right now
Si tú juegas competitivo se supone que tengas esos juegos no hay escusa
Really appreciated an in-depth walkthrough of the process for doing Competitive Pokémon for today gens, I stopped after Black and White so I don't understand the newer stuff nearly as much as I would prefer like the Teras, Dynamax, and Sandwich stuff but that's my fault for stopping with the series lol.
while watching this i finally caught a shiny pidgey ive been hunting for three days 🔥
They have to implement some sort of stadium-like mode where you have a showdown-like editor for teams that are only usable in online play and live competitions and where the mons just vanish after you're done playing, that would solve every single problem and would make the game more accessible, I think the competitive scene would develop and spread really quickly that way
otoh this would make all of their architecture based around training your pokemon totally worthless. the only reason to do it would be to beat the story mode and any dlc the release maybe? I agree they need to reexamine what they want the game to feel like and be about though.
Really simply they could just reduce everything to a single resource like money and then actually put in diverse and fun ways to earn money by playing and battling with other people or alone.
but then they cant shill dlc with meta pokemon
I prefer a smash bros style match, but in a boxing ring, and its just pokemon. those are what test user skills.
@@peacefusion teambuilding is a skill, the issue in Pokémon is that its ridiculously time consuming
@@mopanda81 That doesn't make any sense unless we agree that the journey of the base game, gyms, catching etc is miserable. Many people enjoy that part, other people are much more interested the battling aspect. Let people that enjoy the journey keep enjoying the journey, psot game, breeding, etc. Let people who enjoy competitive and don't care for the story and exploration aspect have an accessible competitive option. It's such a straight forward solution.
I stopped playing competitive due to how boring it is to get the Pokémon and how the meta is (Urshifu, Lando-T, etc.). After seeing this video and learning about what happened at Worlds, I am DEFINITELY not going into a VGC format ever. It truly is absurd that people defend egg hatching and hunting is seen as "skill"; idk much about RNG manipulation but I can probably guess how many months it would take to get exactly what you need.
it should be hard to get perfect stats the problem is getting perfect stats thru outside programs and manuplation of the game.
@@samanthajackson2144 OK...how is it hard? Like fundamentally I disagree, I would love to see you defend this in other competitive games, "It should be hard to unlock Ryu's standard Tatsumaki", but let's ignore that for now.
How is it hard? In what way is it hard, or requires skill, or can be practiced, to get a perfect Pokemon?
As someone that only ever played smogon, it’s nuts how GF seemingly makes things tedious or easier at random. This video is one the big reasons I can’t get into vgc, building teams is a bitch, especially when ur bad like me and need to constantly tweak
@@nahte123456no, it is hard because it will take 1/69420 odds to acquire the pokemon that is competitively viable in a way you aren't inherently at a disadvantage using it.
That to them is called skill, and it makes me fucking puke with how deranged their argument is
Egg hatching and hunting is a skill. You learn better and more efficient ways to get what you want. Secondly, if you dont recognize it as a skill then you have to acknowledge that anyone skipping these steps, illegitimately acquiring resources/ pokemon, and then being able to battle is unfair. You skip the time investment and are able to build skill with experience. Thats fair to the legitimate player who doesnt want to cheat right?
Only $510 to be competitive? Don't play yugioh , playsets of meta relevant cards can get to that price point and you still need 77 more cards min.
these are the games alone. Pokémon also has cards that you also have to pay and gamble for. and it's no competition for what the price is. some people play these competitively for the money and others just for fun and fame. there shouldn't be such a steep entry cost just to play, at all. especially unfortunate for those people that just want to have fun with it
I enjoy competitive Pokémon content and love seeing people come up with interesting strategies. I do not have the time or patience to grind and build a team with mechanics that make it tedious and time consuming. I have a life and full time job. If they ever make a way for average people to compete easier I think I’d very much like to try to see how badly I’d likely get beat.
All of this is still easily resolvable by TPCI just genning mons on a tournament setup instead of making you bring your own switch and doing a full time job for a week to make sure all your mons are set up.
It doesn't take a full time job for a week to set up a team. That's delusional thinking.
@@Jake38nine some of these videos in previous gens literally involved over 40 hours of work, but sure. Modern gens only require 2.5 days of full time labor (+ $200 or more in other games and hardware) to set up a team. That seems perfectly reasonable.
@@KunouNoHana it is reasonable. Travel to and from multiple vgc events will always cost more than $200. And, you can create a pokemon team within 24 hours or less. Heck, you could do it within 8 hours or less. 0 atk and 0 spd IVs are very niche. Not all of your pokemon will have those 0 ivs or need them. Also, if you can't save up $200 for a couple pokemon games every year, then you can't even afford the cost of going to vgc events because vgc events have other costs related to it, such as travel, food, and hotels. Travel + food + hotel costs will always come out to be more than how much a pokemon game costs no matter how cheap you try to be. And not every vgc event is local where you can walk there and home. Plus, not every vgc player is cheap like that. Most vgc players would rather spend the extra money on comfort, such as travel, quick food, and hotels than trying to be cheap. I can guarantee you that. Plus, were not even taking into account how much MORE it costs for vgc players who DONT live locally. They are paying EVEN MORE TRAVELING EXPENSES. So no, $200 per year for a couple pokemon games is not unreasonable. If you can't afford $200 for pokemon games per year, then you can't afford to even go to vgc events. Use some common sense.
@@Jake38nine you're right; a week is optimistic. Could take anywhere up to 3 weeks to two months.
@@breloommaster12 You obviously have no idea how to create a team legitimately. You're such spoiled, entitled brats.
As someone who likes a lot of different competitive games, Pokémon easily has the highest barrier to entry of anything I’ve ever played.
I think that's what a lot of people are glossing over in this comments section. Why would someone play this competitively and spend all this time JUST to play the game, when they could boot up Valorant or League of Legends and become a 420 mlg pro gamer
All this money with pokemon won't reach the price of the GPU and CPU used in competitivve games on PC, not counting the amount of time need to training on those games.
I always appreciate these videos. Anytime I feel interested in playing the Pokemon games again I can enjoy a wonderful video going into great detail as to why I should continue to ignore these games.
I'm happy I was able to enjoy up to Black and White X and Y was great ONLY because of mega evolutions and the introduction of fairy types, but otherwise it started the downhill trend of Pokemon.
Small note from something you said early on, you dont need to skip a day forward to change the raids/reset day, instead, go backwards a single minute. much simpler, messes way less with the date of the machine
even if it's not midnight?
@@johndinner4418 yes doesn't matter . Just go back one minute, preferably while on a menu and go back in game
The worst offender of all the transfer only mons is 0 Speed enamorus. Like you said, PLA legends only get one chance per save file for a 0 IV stat legendary. And PLA is the only way to get Enamorus
While I don't agree with somethings in this video this is a major annoyance I 100% agree with. There isn't a good reason for pokemon not to include an iv checker since they knew they were going to allow hisuen forms well in advance to scarlet violet through home.
If I'm 30+ playing Pokemon and can't afford the cost investment to train up a tournament competitive team, I would re-prioritize my life.
You know kids play this game and enter tournaments right lol.
@@imablisy I'm not disagreeing with the premise that training up a competitive team should be made easier and more accessible; I think we agree on the goal. What I disagree with is your justification for this due to life experiences.
@@andresrojassanchez6862 what are you even saying?
@@imablisy Your stance: Nintendo/Game Freak should improve the creation of teams for competitive play because people have different life experiences (i.e. new player, not buying a game, old games thrown away, can't afford special controllers, etc.). My stance: Nintendo/Game Freak should improve the creation of teams for competitive play because it improves the player experience. If you don't understand the nuance of the two different takes I'm not sure how to better explain it.
@@andresrojassanchez6862 I don’t necessarily think it improves the player experience. Having good Pokémon doesn’t need to be easy if there’s not a competitive circuit. I don’t think there’s an issue with ivs and natures being difficult to get, or ev training taking a while, if it’s just for ingame content.
This is only of concern for tournaments where there is irl time and money pressure before an event happen. Those things are the reason the player experience should be improved.
looking back at this im really glad the current regulation f format didn't need me to play my older games to get the mons i needed, i did transfer some yes but that was a given, but thats just about all i needed from older games. with the indigo disk i could either shiny hunt or just catch a lot of the pokemon my current team needed. if i wanted a full shiny team from what is possible currently i would just need to shiny hunt flutter mane for my team and seeing that trick you performed in area zero, i might give that a shot now.
New players can't transfer Pokemon from the 3DS anymore as of the e-shop shutdown. And new players aren't some minority demographic, either - this has been VGC's biggest year ever.
If you're a new player and you want 0 Speed Cresselia - the best Pokemon in the format - your best option is to buy BDSP and keep resetting the roamer.
Freezai's team may not have had Urshifu - the second best mon in the format - but there's no way to get it outside of purchasing Sword/Shield AND its DLC - $90 for a single Pokemon!
New to sv
$90 is not comparable to the amount if expenses used to travel for VGC events. If you can't afford a $90 game, you can't afford to travel to vgc events. That's just common sense. $100 is very easy to save up every year. To have all 5 pokemon games, you're spending about $200 or less every year within 3-5 years. $510-600 within 3-5 years is totally accessible to buy. If you can't save $600 within 3-5 years, then you can't even afford to go to vgc events in the first. Vgc events are not free. Travel is not free. You have to calculate all of that in with the cost of the games, and travel will always cost more. And you know vgc players aren't getting free lodging and free food either. They're paying for hotels and foods. Everything combined will cost more than $200 every year for a couple games. Use common sense and math and you'll know this easily.
Imagine all the kids that want to compete only to get their hopes shattered by genetically perfect ubermench mons
LMFAO
This is something I think about a lot with Competitive Pokemon as well... If Ash was thrown into an actual VGC tournament, then Pikachu would become a Chewtoy for Landorus T and he'd have every hope or dream of becoming a master shattered like the bones of every sub-optimal mon he brought.
@@aquamarinerose5405pretty sure the anime and games are drastically different in the way battles works
Well obviously, one is a very rudimentary turn based RPG and the other is a TV show so obviously they're different. But I more make note of the anime because I assume that it's how the children and/or the devs imagine the battles would go if they weren't limited by the gameboy/DS JRPG style. And more generally, I bring up the anime as an example because Ash really, REALLY represents that core theme of "Follow your heart, work with the pokemon you love, and you'll never go wrong".@@calub_wendex1233
This just honestly deters me from wanting to try out building a competitive team. I knew a lot went into it. But all this would drive me insane.
I ended up buying the sword and shield DLC, because I didn't play most of the handhelds after GBA.
I felt like it was pretty good cost considering it gave x2 extra "box legendaries" and allowed a ton of legendaries to be re-experienced.
7:44 I had no idea this was a thing. I was shiny hunting the same thing, and I thought my game shat itself from all the spawning I was making it do. Glad this was an intended mechanic!
Not only do you need ample money to play without "cheating" (ridiculous notion) but you also need ample time on top of it to play this game competitively. It is beyond stupid to have an esport gated behind tedious grinding. Frankly it's classist.
VGC competitors, especially the NA Worlds Qualifiers, pay $1000s a year to compete.
I’m not going to feel sorry for them to have to buy another $60 Pokémon game in order to not hack.
@@imafatass9123 There's a difference between a WORLDS competitor spending money to compete, and someone who just trying to enter the scene for the first time.
VGC competitors do this as their full time job, and it doesn't pay enough, most of them have part time jobs or are content creators (which can also be a full time job, there's just overlap there)
But if you are trying to enter a regional or nationals for instance with a decent chance of doing well and ending in prizes, the price of the extra games, and the extra time required are going to be the majority of your upfront costs, even if you travel across the country.
Basically, unless you have a lot of money sitting around, starting out as a VGC competitor is close to impossible.
Also, what usually ends up happening is that top competitors have friends that can catch and train stuff for them whilst they practice, this is an insane advantage that only exists because of how obtuse team building is. IT allows them to practice with multiple teams and try out various team legit in game, a luxury that no one on their own could ever replicate within the game itself.
@@imafatass9123 I'm just going to assume you're very young because that's not exactly a lot of money in comparison to the sheer volume of time you have to pump into it.
Why do you even care to begin with? How much time you have to waste shouldn't be a factor in how good you are at actually battling.
California minimum wage is $15.50 an hour. It would take you about 64 and a half hours to make that much money (not including taxes). If someone worked 25 a week, it would take them about 3 weeks to make that much money. A high schooler washing dishes part time could make the money faster than it takes to work on getting the pokemon. It might even be faster if someone was working the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25 an hour. It would take them about 6 weeks instead. If you were really that concerned about money, time would be better spent working more hours, getting a second job or trying to get a degree/certification to get a higher paying job.
@@Trisoulwolf wait... your solution is to make people stop playing the game they want to with their free time and get a 2nd job if they want to playing in a pokemon tournament?
I'm sure people would rather do.. literally anything else.
Like... I think that's what you're saying?
Complaining about the cost for competitive team building in vgc is strange to me when thats absolutely how it is in the tcg. You have to buy the cards for your deck. At least with the vgc when you buy a game you get access to all the other pokemon in that game as well.
In any game, to play proper play a CS or a shooter, you need to have a good pc, a good monitor, good setup in general, you won't compete in pro level running the game at 30 fps, you need 200+, and that's expansive, and i'm not even talking about the amount of time that you need training aiming, positioing, smokes, flashs, molotovs, understad economy, the time, not even talking about strategy, just the basic aspects of the game.
Amazing video, enjoyed it from start to finish. As a new competitive player it baffles me how complex vgc can be.
Blisy building a freezai team = a dream come true
This is why I never played competitive as much as I love the game, it's crazy how long it is to build a single team. Even though Gamefreak has made it more easy to change stats and natures it is still ridiculously long to get those resources.
players optimizing the fun out of the game
@@Jansk1hcompetitive optimisation is the only way to make the fun tbh. Theres no difficulty in base game. I just wish it were legitimately easier to make a good team
@@Jansk1hit is literally competitive. That’s 70% of the point.
What about pokemon go? It's easy to raid loads and transfer them to the main series games through home? That's free right?
And if you can use pokemon from older main series games, what's the issue with using ones from PoGo?
This is honestly some fiction level 3d chess style tactics. I'm impressed, my guy. You deserve more traction for this.
It should also be stated I’m sure Nintendo doesn’t intent for rng manipulation either. If that were removed…I can’t imagine how long it’d take.
Concordo plenamente com você. E digo mais, "rng manipulation" é trapaça com alguns passos extras. ps.: Não sou contra trapaça.
@@henriquesa3580 i guess anything that's exploitative to an extent is cheating, but i can't tell if it's a good sign or not that you need external programs to get it done
@@henriquesa3580I mean once you know you will mathematically find the Pokémon at a certain hour and it’s impossible to find it at any other hour than if you don’t like cheating just wait a day until it’s the right time at that point it’s just knowledge of the code not cheating. What should you do randomly open the game and hope you got the right time?
They don't care. Competitive is not the main focus of the franchise.
I think a lot of these obtuse systems or rules are purposefully kept as is on the part of GameFreak. They want to make each Pokemon feel unique and different, that YOUR Swampert is actually somehow better than your friends', or the one you had in another game. They hide these stats, make them near-impossible to manipulate etc etc because they want to chalk everything up to RNG making each 'mon feel unique and special - to enhance excitement and attachment to Pokemon you catch. They're actively fighting against the strict meta-fication that competitive pokemon and competitive gaming in general foster. And tbh, I get it. I'm usually against people breaking fun, unique experiences down to math problems and the most efficient thing possible. Especially in a game like Pokemon. But VGC is a massive system, with money on the line.
Like many others have said, they just need to make a standalone VGC game like Showdown where competitors can forego the random, unique expereince for a purpose-built, META team build. That evens the playing field for everyone. Then they can keep obfuscating the IV/EV etc etc in the main game to keep that "special" feeling of each little 'mon being unique and special to others.
We need a new Pokémon Stadium with rental only tournaments
I love these videos, it really just goes to show just how crazy team building can truely be. The fact you need all these separate games, dlc content, and Gamefreak expects you to invest a lot of time just to get the desired stats, abilities, and iv spreads. And it’s funny how some people will say that team building is easier nowadays… yeah in the sense it’s easier to get max iv’s, natures, ev spreads…. But what about if you want a 0 atk flutter mane, or a 0 spd torkoal, good luck with that without some kind of hacks to make it easier. And that’s just the team building part, not including practice, theory crafting, and eventually the preparation. Not only that but even the time you have to invest for xp candies, bottle caps, mints and battle items, which most require in game currency to purchase… which all of these things can take up more time than you would want if you’re trying to make a team within a reasonable time frame.
I think that tournaments should be held within their respective games, with only the Pokemon that are available within that game natively. When DLCs come out, sure, add those in, but that would be for the second tournament cycle (read 2nd year after release) typically, and not the first. If you want to use Pokemon from another game in a tournament, just make an entirely different circuit for that game. I think it's more fun to see what the branch of new Pokemon add to the metagame rather than old mons transferred in that were there the last generation (and sometimes the generation before that).
We also really need a "rusted bottlecap" item that will set a Pokemon's IVs to zero. That's one of the the last major hurdles to this constant IV cheating problem. They took hidden power out, they allow you to set IV's to max at level 50. We're closer, but still so far.
I have played Pokemon a lot of the years, but now I'm a Dad and that means a LOT less free time. I don't feel like I can't engage with the competitive scene like I used to be able to just due to the time restrictions beyond what feels like a reasonable amount of time to spend on team building.
fax. sorry you are a father tho, that sucks :(
@@soonerthanlater8206 no need to be sorry, being a father is a huge blessing and I love it. It just means that I have less time for other things :)
@@soonerthanlater8206 tell that to your father if you have one
People like to move the goalpost about this so much. From it taking way more effort to build a team and breeding being a key part of the “spirit of Pokemon” rather than… battling - to it being so easy and fast to build one with no need to gen a team, not knowing those two points contradict each other. The World Championship isn’t a breeding competition it’s a battling competition, idk why people want to say there’s no effort just because you didn’t breed enough.
I've seen people even say, "If you can't get Lando/Tornadus or Urshifu, just use some other Pokemon"
Like, I get it you're a fan of what Karen said in the games but using any Pokemon in single player game and not being able to use a top tier meta in competitive are very different things
The way i have always seen it is It's a Pokemn competition. So in the spirit of pokemon you have to build your own team. Why? Because it locks you in to your team. If you want to switch up your team, it will take time, meaning your strategy has to be well thought out beforehand. If you don't have the other game's that's part of the strategy pokemon made their competitions. To just make pokemon into something that the pokemon company clearly doesn't want you to do is really ubsurd and a form of entitlement. It's pokemon and their rules. Japan conforms to their beloved franchise but the rest of the world is just like "I have a job so I can't waste my time" yeah thats the point. Just like any other competitions with their own rules sets, you get the advantages you're willing to put in the effort for. I see it as real world competitions where you have to put in hours upon hours training your body to do the one thing youre going to do in competition. Athletes practice sure but 90% of the time theyre training their bodies to be ready for practice to in turn, be ready for competition. Just because other games are simplistic like smash and FPS games where the game play is just to do the one thing repetitively doesn't mean pokemon should do that if they diomt feel like that's what their game's are. Pokemon is more than battling. It's the steps before battling and the journey to be the best.
@@UltraSteelix So only rich people can win pokemon tournaments? okay sure love that message, Love having to pay for 3 games+ DLC just to compete in one fucking game.
@@CitywideJ If you think avoiding weeks of grinding is "cheating", than no one can help you.
@@Calmasis_1025Yeah, that's capitalism. I'm literally too poor to compete (with any Pokemon) cause I have to work and have very very little free time.
What if a bunch of smaller streamers start up a sort of collective to help out in the modern games? I am breeding a shiny Munchlax right now and have a box full of 5IV (0Speed) Munchlax for trick room teams. If I pick a couple more we could all trade for whatever we need anytime!
I started at the end of last year and there are vgc battles where I really have a disadvantage because I only have the scarlet game, but you can get along well without other games, but it's real that there is a disadvantage and kind of an imposition of having the other games to do better or have an advantage in vgc.
Would it kill TPC to make an item akin to a reverse bottle cap?
Sakazuki really seems like he could put a hole in any teams Ace
Let it be known that I understood that reference.
Whitebeard is seething at this comment
It's honestly amazing there is even a competetive scene and tournaments going on official hardware with all the roadblocks that are still in place before you can even think about competing casually and the obvious disregard from gamefreak.
Also makes you think of the potential of an even somewhat accessible competitive environment within the games. Hell even I might consider coming back if PVP was even rometely accessible.
I agree with the overall point about the time and monetary barrier being intrinsically unfair. Although I felt a couple of the points seemed a little disingenuous.
- Getting shiny pokemon, and getting them with a certain ball took extra time that could have been shortened.
- More time can be cut if you're willing to take risks. In this team, you only really need 0 IVs to avoid the off chance that you get confused and hit yourself under nerfed confusion, and that the damage actually mattered. It's certainly optimal, but may not be actually worth the extra hours.
- Some of the money farming can be eliminated by EV training which, IMO, seems much faster if you already have a team(s) you want to build. Just get a brace item and swing on some low level mons, takes 5-10 mins for a team of 6 pokemon at once, and doesn't need a turbo controller.
I do strongly agree that the raid farming is mind-numbing, though.
i still find it wild you have to grind shards FOR EACH POKEMON YOU WANT TO SWITCH TERA ON, why wouldn't they just make it so you unlock each tera type someway, then you can change whichever pokemon you want with the key item associated with that tera type (similar to how you change forms in L:A).
pvp sucks in general not just a pokemon problem if someone is able to have more time then you because they get paid to stream games your going to be at a disadvantage if you have to work a normal job and not have as much time to practice as a result. Which is why i prefer single player or just casual multiplayer.