Simple Home and Hearth Online ... You’re welcome sweetheart. My thoughts were there, for sure. You know that I have an exodus story of my own. God is greatly to be praised.
I love what Esther and her husband said about when you are hurting and people think you're bitter. Its true, people normally want to fix you or think it can be fixed one night at the alter. And that is not how the way things normally work. It took me a while to figure this out bit in the meantime, I thought something was wrong with me because I wasnt overcoming my grief. It took time to get better
Thank you for your comments. So true, isn’t it?! You’re on the right track! Sometimes I think the hardest thing to do is to give OURSELVES a bit of grace, too! Harder said than done...
I can absolutely relate to this comment. What he said too about your identity being wrapped up in who you are being for the organization and not for Christ. It's a distracting burden.
Brian and Esther, thanks for sharing your story. I enjoyed listening to it very much. WOW what a journey you had. God was leading you all the way. Blessings.
Thank you Uncle Gary! So glad you finally heard our story! It was so nice to see you at Mom’s memorial service this week. It meant a lot for you to be there. ❤️
@@simplehomeandhearthonline7182 I did not know that all of this happened to you. I am stunned at what you went through. Praise be to God, He was in control all the time. When all of the events of our lives are over, we will look back and see the plan of God was in everything. Isn't it wonderful to know that we are being made partakers of a heavenly calling? What a plan, what a purpose, WHAT A GOD. I love you both.
Thank you Brian and Esther for sharing your story. We had similar happen to us and I guess after listening to you I am still in the grieving process after 6 years. Your story has helped me SO much. I was told by my therapist that I have PTSD. I need to add after your ending...i had to disconnect from the former people because i could not trust them. They were only there to spy on us and gossip about us. Your story ends so good!!
Thank you! We’re so glad our story helped you! We did the same thing: got off of social media for several months, then before becoming active again, we deleted over half of our “friends” list! Boundaries MUST be drawn for the healing process to continue. Good for you!
Well I'm only 14 min in and I'm having floods of memories. Brian and Esther I'm so glad you made it out! Just wish my in laws hadn't been so entrenched. Wlm Markham was one of the last moderates in FMD. Miss him so!
Beautiful couple. I didn’t know that P.T.S.D. was so prevalent among people who have left abusive churches but given the programming people have to overcome, I can understand. I went back for one service about a year ago and felt an anxiousness that made me feel physically sick. I didn’t know what it was at that time but it makes sense to me now. I was also glad to hear that anger and bitterness are actually a healthy coping mechanism that aids in the healing process. I understand the anger at having been deceived and the bitterness that cries for justification but forgiveness is a powerful healing tool, as well. I also like what she said about it being a relationship with GOD without performance, which fosters peace. This was a very informative interview.
I didn’t even realize I had it til very recently when someone made a reel and shared a sermon that I remember almost word for word! I should’ve realized it due to my doubts and questions as a child/teen/ young adult, and cptsd from my abusive ex husband.
I appreciate this interview. I happened on it by chance. I love the idea of GOD's GRACE. We can't possibly work hard enough to EARN grace. I was raised atheist and at the age of 16 in '74 my 1st encounter with GOD was at a UPC church. The FEAR of GOD is what kept us "in line." We were taught more about hell than about the LOVE of GOD. So a few of us sat among racists trying to save our souls while they spoke in tongues and shouted as one of the elders stood up and gave us a "bible" study about why their young white sons should not date these young Black girls. They LOVED us in their churches singing, bringing "soul" to the service. But they never loved US. After 6 years I left. I've worked in 2 churches since then...independent! It wasn't until my late 50's that I truly experienced the LIBERTY of Grace. Not to use as an occasion to sin, but when I fall short...I can go Boldly before the throne. I TRULY APPRECIATED this interview. Although my story is not the same as theirs it still reveals the pain executed by those who desire to Control the lives of others instead of assisting to Guide. You now have a new subscribe😄
The racism in some of these churches is horrible! They should be ashamed of themselves. I'm so glad you've experienced grace! Thank you for subscribing. ☺
I grew up in the ALJC. The church I grew up in is now in UPCI. I left in 2020. I relate so much to you. I’m happy to have broken away and there has been a lot of therapy to help me get past it. I also identified with Brian with Stockton CLC. I grew up singing the youth choir’s songs. NorCal as well. I won’t call out the people’s names because I still think they’re awesome, but... it really grips you. Hell fire and brimstone. So afraid that if you get off the pew, you’d fall right into hell. I’m happy to have broken away.
I grew up in the independent holiness movement and this makes me wonder what kinds of things some of the “ex” ministers I knew growing up went through behind the scenes. 😢
Brian and Ester. Your story is much like mine. 3 rd generation UPC. 24 years a licensed and ordained minister. But there came a time……. God bless you going forward in Christ. It has been 26 years since then, there is abundant life after the UPCI. I was in Wisconsin also when I left the upc.
Responsible Faith the scripture. Come out of her my people. Rings in my ears when I think of the UPC . As I read the words of Jesus . The judgment and condemnation. The dress code and the always feeling like I’m not saved . I read his words and see them as The Pharisees . At least that comes to my mind . And coming out of her was freedom in Christ. Iv learned so much more because now He teaches me all things and leads me to all truth . Thank you sister for your offer . I have family in the church and it makes it hard . I was just recently attack by two of them . Because they can’t control me . Do you have people in ma that meet ? Or is on line ? I will email later today . Thank u
Love seeing your faces😀. Resonate with your story and I’m sorry you had to go through all of that. My heart hurts for y’all. I Feel so old hearing the beginning of your story...brings back old feelings and memories. I have fond memories of both of you. Love you Brian and Ester and we would love to catch up with y’all.
Great video! It has been many years since I was involved in Pentecostal style churches, or other smaller type denominations. After watching a few of your videos I remember why I left these style of churches, even if some of them weren’t outright cults they tended to be about battling for little positions of authority in their church and building up their own little personal kingdoms. I just got tired if it all. I actually thought I hadn’t been scarred too much by these experiences but after watching a few of your videos it has brought up unresolved feelings of sadness as well as other emotions. Nowadays I go to an institutional church some but I don’t take it too serious. My personal relationship with God and learning to forgive and love others is what matters the most too me. God bless and thanks for all the work you do by providing these encouraging videos.
Thank you. It is funny how much unresolved emotional baggage we have under the surface. I've been out for 18 yrs and found that hashing it all back up has exposed some tender areas in me as well. Sometimes hearing another share their story reminds us of things we forgot about. Healing is a process.
Wow I saw some of this. I cannot attend due to health issues plus my husband can barely walk. It was family click but did not know til I could physically not go. We have lived where we are now……7 yrs.I have gone a few times they know our issues but hear from no one. However I have learned so much from an online mister that teaches book by book. Great interview. Bless You What a testimony.
me and my wife didnt know when we fell for the upci for a couple yrs..it took me a while to figure it out..i just sit home and prayed while i sent my wife to church weekly then she came home crying.because of the controll and the shunning..and right now we dont go to church..we are once bit and twice shy
So sorry to hear that, but I do understand. The controlling and the shunning are both so hard to heal from! Thankfully God is near to the brokenhearted and church attendance is not a matter of salvation. I hope you can find some Christian fellowship somewhere as support while you heal (whatever that might look like and no matter how informal).
Wow, I don't know how I came across this! We went to Frank LaCrosses Church together! Thank you for sharing your story you guys! I love you Brian and Esther!!💝
Thank you for sharing!! I live in Samoa and have just starting attending UPC branch here in Samoa. We love the missionaries who have been called here. Beautiful.couple. It's a start up church and I am just learning about the doctrine. This has been helpful to understand the bigger church picture. Would have loved to have this couple be missionaries here in Samoa too 🇼🇸
I was being torn apart my mom granny and great grandma was telling me I was to he'll for wearing pants,then my husband was telling me if I kept wearing dresses he was going to leave so day I was sitting on the porch I heard God tell me Rebecca I want you to read acts 13 through 15 so when I finished I heard him say now did I say anything about pants r dresses.
as far as I know in Dueteronomy 22:5 it says it is an abomination, something that God hates, and God is the same yesterday today and forever and he changes not and is no respecter of persons, so my thought is if God hated it back then in Bible times, then it is still something that he hates today.
I don't think the Wisconsin UPCI district board have ANY RIGHT to be judging this wonderful couple!! Their HORRIBLE RECORD on cover ups of child sexual abuse by leadership is absolutely DISGUSTING!!
Gene Zimmki is the pastor that sold flowers on the side of the road in Puyallup. I grew up in WA, Brain you actaully went to church with some of my family in Tacoma, I remember you from my teen years. I went to CLC too, but right after you. I left the UPC about 20 years ago. I found this very interesting, frustraiting and sad. I'm sorry you have had to go through this, but God knows the way to truly set us free!
This is so familiar to me!! I was married 26 years UPCI pastor is a known homosexual!! 😭😭 (I stayed bc it was the Christian thing to do!) I’m ostracized and he’s still a licensed pastor. Every day is a struggled...
I'm sorry to hear that Deb. It would hurt to realize how disloyal they were to you even though you tried to do what you felt was right at the time. Your story is similar to a couple of others I've heard. If you're interested in more resources and even a couple of private online FB support groups, you can email me at deannajonorton@gmail.com and I'd be happy to send you that information. Support is so helpful. It's comforting to know that other people do understand and that you're not alone.
The church is being launch out to the world to “Go” be His disciples. At our church Wednesday night is missional night with group meetings in homes, our pastor is trying to launch us out to our world. He says it may be one day that we cannot meet at church. He’s all about relationships with others and God, he teaches us how that looks. Assembly of God is where I go , in Oklahoma, very small town, Wetumka. I feel privileged to have such a good pastor to lead me.
Sorry for this long post….I’m currently attending an Apostolic Church….”Guilt shamed”….that’s where I’m currently at. Husband and I haven’t lived together since October 2020. Husband ended up in prison and I and our now 5 yo son moved in with my mother. I got Holy Ghost in 1993. My husband never been in church. Fast forward to 2022 July. Husband out of prison and he’s visited a handful of times. We’ve been living separately for 2 1/2 years. I started praying for a new “home” from the moment we lost everything in 2020. Several people have told me “God can do anything”. I’ve always been a somewhat cynical person. Now, concerning a “home”. I would ask God to make a way where there seemed to be no way. Not realizing the door would soon be opened. Here I am thinking I would still be here in Phoenix, AZ. So, my husbands aunt called and told him she/her husband had a house we could rent. The only problem(well, not really a problem per say), it’s in GA. When my husband told me this, I was like “I don’t wanna go to GA”. I continued to pray and ask God to open a door here. We had to give our answer by February 1, 2023. As time went on, I started to “doubt” God was gonna provide. We looked for rentals here in North Phoenix area. It’s also where the church I go to is located. Rental prices here are outrageous. The stipulations are even more ridiculous. We’re not rich, by any means. Most decent rentals are like $1800-$2500 a month. Meanwhile, people kept asking how home hunting was going. I’d tell them and they’d all say “keep praying”. Time went on. February rolled around. Had to give decision on GA rental. We said yes. Now this decision was t done lightly, either. I’ve prayed/fasted for 2 1/2 years. It wasn’t done as a “spur of the moment” type thing. Right then, the guilt set in. What’s my pastor gonna think. What are the congregants gonna think. On and on. When I spoke to a close friend(who’s a Christian counselor in same church), she stopped me and said “sister, do you hear what you’re saying”. I realized right then and there, GOD has answered my prayer for a home and for a way for our family to be under the SAmE roof. I then started to thank God for HIS provision. All the while, I’ve got people(including the pastor), telling me/advising me it’s not what God wants for me. Now, I know I shouldn’t say anything negative about the pastor. However, even the pastor believes a familial breakup is best in MY situation. I’m in church, my husband is not. They’re of the belief that if I leave, I’m losing my soul and going to hell. And I’m taking my son with me. Talk about major fear tactic. Pastor even said he would “pray God would throw a wrench in my move”. Others would say “God would bless your family if my husband would just come to church and accept the word”, etc. So are they trying to tell me God won’t bless unless you’re IN the CHURCH( more specifically THIS particular church)? I mean, I could be TOTALLY wrong and listening to the devil ya know. I’m feeling “confused/conflicted”. Any advice is coveted. A Heaven or bell issue: pantyhose and short sleeves are NOT a Heaven or bell issue. But, the church I’m currently attending thinks/teaches/preaches differently. That’s what happened to my husband. The whole “male dress code” and facial hair subject. Right off the bat, 1st message or subject pastor taught/preached/mentioned over the pulpit was clothing and facial hair. Then, another time another male saint in the church got ahold of him and told him he’d go to hell if he didn’t “change” and follow their ideals. That turned my husband off real quick. That also ticked me off, too. That’s NOT how you win someone over to God. “Passive/Aggressive”….👍🤚…I’m dealing with it….do y’all know Ken Gurley out of Pearland, TX?
I too left the UPC, but I still have much of my family that is in the organization and I love all the people that I grew up with. My experience was different than many of you. I don't have bitterness or hard feelings toward the UPC organization or to the people or church that I grew up in. I had a wonderful childhood and went to a great church in St. Louis. I too went to Gateway and then Jackson College of Ministries. Was it perfect? No. However, I do believe that God is in those churches and I would never want to be part of putting the ministry or the beautiful people in a bad light. I left because I became more sensitive to the legalistic nature of some of the teaching. I am sorry to hear about this couple's problems. I have seen other people who have had trouble in the ministry when dealing with certain ministers and it is a shame. I don't think these things are unique to the UPC. I think many church organizations have similar problems when people get out of the will of God and start running the show as they think it should be done.
I too love the people I grew up with in the UPC and have friends and family still in the organization (even in ministry). I don't have bitterness or hard feelings against anyone either, nor did I expect things to be perfect...that would be silly. I appreciate the Henry's having the courage to share their experience, it's much harder to do than you would think. I hear from many people who have experienced similar things to myself, Brian & Esther...who are broken and hurting, which is our reason for sharing. We're trying to offer comfort to the walking wounded. I even occasionally hear from people still in who feel that the abuse they've seen is wrong and are thankful somebody is talking about it. In an organization with so much legalism (also the reason I left), I do believe that these problems flourish a bit more than other non-legalistic groups because of all the "rules", but of course they do exist elsewhere as well. Leadership has become quite political and as a result...produced spiritual abuse and a lack of healthy boundaries that has hurt and crushed people. It's heartbreaking. It's actually love and compassion that has prompted my channel. I talk about the UPC and Pentecostalism because that is my experience/background. If I had experienced my spiritual abuse in the IFB church, I would no doubt be talking about that and featuring guests with that same background. I also have no doubt that if that were the case, the IFB people would be on here using the "it's not just in the IFB, this is in all organizations" defense.
@@ResponsibleFaith Hmmm...I was merely trying to say that there are some people who are doing the things that you are saying, but there are many wonderful people of God in the UPC. I understand that your hurt goes deep...so I hope that you will experience the healing that you are looking for. God's blessings to you.
Thank you, I actually have experienced healing (my exit was 17 years ago). The purpose for these conversations is for people who are currently dealing with fresh abuse to feel understood and comforted (that there is healing and hope).
Due to my health (epilepsy) my only option for college when living in California was to go to CLC which I tried, I honestly did. It was easy to get the recommendation letters as I’d been a good church girl and never caused trouble. Always kept my person thoughts and doubts to myself. I went to study music in fall 2007, but only lasted 2-3 months. During that time I lost about 35lbs due to stress, I barely ate one meal a day. Cali is very strict and I had no issue being away from my parents but this was even more strict and all my doubts just became more amplified. My mom said I looked skeletal when I returned home, she had no idea and I had no way to explain how I felt. 14 years later I’m finally learning the truth and how to explain it thanks to your channel and BereanHoliness. Thank you so much. These videos are amazing and encouraging.
I attended CLC from 98-2001 the leadership was different. They expect certain things from leaders and students of course. I never once heard a sermon on standards or anything legalistic but shin the leadership of the college and church were different people at the time. I would trade anything for my journey there or my experience and knowledge. I no longer believe in the standards to a point and a lot of other things. I wouldn’t thank God for backsliding but it took me not going to UPC churches to open my eyes to a LOT OF THINGS and I thanks God for grace!
Frank LaCrosse was my uncle by marriage. His second wife ( he remarried after his first wife died from illness) is my aunt. Uncle Frank was a very kind man. I never had the opportunity to hear him preach.
I wish there was a way I could talk to this couple. We are missionaries in Honduras and it would be great to have a time of sharing with what we've been through. Similar to UPCI but we are a different denomination. We have family members that are UPCI.
47:33...I have been saying this exact same thing! I wish there was a pill people could take that would wipe their mind clean and start over reading the Bible. Use it to form their doctrine instead of trying to make the Bible fit a doctrine they have been taught.
Amen!! God's Word is sufficient. 😃 And even then, take it slow. Pray. Be careful who you listen to for doctrine. Some people do a "clean slate," say they are getting it all from the Bible, and then go off into some old already-disproven heresy. Sigh. These folks are usually very dogmatic and fleshly below a facade of charm or holiness. Just beware of folks like this. They are in churches and out of churches.
Brian says he read a book "Why i left" there are 3 different ones with that title. Wish he knew author or could remember by looking at these 3 on Amazon. Anyone else ever read it?? Thanks 😒
Frank LaCrosse? Familiar name during my (very early days) in UPCI. If I’m not mistaken,he was in our section of churches as I was attending a church in Bremerton Wa.
If people leave the Church due to rules and legalistics then they went to the church for the wrong reasons, they started caring more about what the people were doing and saying and allowing themselves to become offended and hurt instead of the real reason that they should have been going to church in the first place, which is to worship God only. It is sad to see them turn away from the truth and potentially lose their souls because they let things people say and do offend them. The Bible said there would be a great falling away from the church the closer his coming and this interview videos show this to be happening. This reminds me of a verse in the Bible that says the devil will try to kill, steel and destroy. And one way of doing this is to cause division, discontentment, chaos, and other things to come into the church. I don't mind the rules and the so called "legalistics" of the church and get to the judgement day and find out I did more than I needed to than to find out I didn't do enough!
I won't address your incorrect judgmental assumptions about the Henry's or any of us who have left the UPC over legalism, but I would like to address your misapplication of John 10:10. That verse is not talking about "the devil", you read that into the verse. If you read the chapter, it's referring to false teachers telling people eternal life can be had any other way besides through Jesus Christ (the gate, the only way in). This is one of my favorite passages of scripture. No other way also includes 'rule keeping' with the hopes that you've "done enough" on judgment day. We bring nothing to our salvation but the sin that made it necessary. I have no problem with people who live/dress a certain way to try to live a life pleasing to God because they love him, but I truly hope you don't honestly think your 'rule keeping' is anything but filthy rags in comparison to the sacrifice of the Son of God. He made himself to be sin for us, so that in him (and only in him) we might become the righteousness of God. That is our only shot at righteousness. Faith in Christ and what he did for us on the cross is our only hope of eternal life. We bring nothing of value to the table (no matter how hard we try), and to think otherwise is arrogant, irreverent, and completely misses the true holiness of Almighty God and the flawed nature of our own humanity. If rule keeping could have given us eternal life, the law would have been fine in the OT and Christ would not have needed to die/take our punishment. I'm not trying to be rude in any way...I really hope you get this. It's so easy to be in love with Jesus when you fully understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's all in him, Jesus paid it all! ❤ There is no standing before God and having our works tallied up to see if we've "done enough" to merit salvation, we won't...that's a guarantee. I don't deserve this, but Jesus...the sinless lamb of God took my punishment and because I'm in him, my standing before God is perfect. Blameless! That's the good news. The outflow of our faith is a desire to live honorable, holy lives to please this heavenly father we love so much. Salvation produces good works, not the other way around. Using our wounds and stories to bring comfort to others who have experienced abuse in the church is not "causing division, discontentment, chaos,...", too often unchecked spiritual abuse does that. For those of us out here trying to comfort and even throw a lifeline to those people...we're not surprised "the church" doesn't understand it. I wish you guys would stop pretending this isn't happening in your faith community. If the UPC isn't going to start being honest and acknowledge how much damage it has done over the years (often over foolishness), the least they can do is get out of the way and stop criticizing those of us who are trying to help people hold on to faith in Christ. These stories are not directed at the happily "churched", but they resonate deeply with those they are intended for.
@@ResponsibleFaith I'm not trying to be judgmental, I'm just saying I don't go to church because of "rules or lack thereof." I go to just worship God and Him alone, And I don't believe that I mentioned ANY Names of people in my comment, It is just an observation of What I am seeing more and more of in these last days. and I am just saying that I think it is sad that this is happening, but it is what the Bible says will happen. Watching this these videos makes me realize that I need to draw closer to God because the Devil is doing all that he can to spread discord among the brethren, and if he can he will kill your faith, steal your walk with God and destroy your soul. I just want to make sure that I am ready to meet the Lord when He comes and hear Him say "Well done though good and faithful servant" on the day of judgement.
You may not have mentioned names, but it's an odd comment to leave under this video if you weren't prompted by the Henry's and their story. I too want to hear God say "Well done my good and faithful servant" to you, and to me.
@@ResponsibleFaith it just happened to be the video that I was watching at the time. I didn't even get to watch the whole video because I had to go somewhere, and I don't even know the Henrys so why would I even comment about them? anyway thanks for listening and chatting with me.
😯 i had know idea about UPCI history! Do you have any resources to reccomend for learning about this? Has anyone written a book as ynbiased and objective as reasonably feasible? It's interesting that wrong doings aren't adequately addressed, if adressed at all, on the premise that UPC governance is congregational, i.e. each church is self-governing; yet if the church is large enough, headquarters makes sure to execute great control over it. Smh
Love your channel and the videos are so informative. I was raised in the upc and left a few years ago and have seen a lot of what you and this couple are speaking about. But I believe you’ll see this in every organization you join. It might LOOK different but it’s the same. I was a member of a non denominational church for a few years and I saw the same politics, nepotism and manipulation. People are people.
Thanks Coryna, and yes you're right about the politics and corruption being everywhere (a result of humanity). I've seen it too. I guess the thing that makes it harder to abide in "exclusive" groups, is that they take such pride in comparing their "holiness" with other Christians and holding themselves above the other denominations. In light of that, it always feel weird when a misconduct in their group is brought up and the first thing they do is lump themselves in with every other group. I feel like either their "holiness" is superior or it's not. Sadly there have been far to many abuses within all avenues of Christianity. Oftentimes the "system" of organization set in place to prevent these things prove useless.
If I heard Brian correctly they were beginning to question what was being taught, and some teaching in the scriptures. Could this be why upc asked them to step away from the ministry? Just asking.
That's a very "white washed" assessment of Brian accepting the pastorate of a church and the previous pastor (who'd just become the District Superintendent) making trouble for him with the saints in the church as well as the district board until he could oust Brian and fast-track his son in-law into the position. I don't think anyone knew anything about Brian's mental questions. I also would highly doubt it had anything to do with them spiritually discerning that he was having questions...since when it comes to sexual abuse and domestic violence in their churches, they don't have an ounce of "discernment".
I hosted the Henrys for the purpose of sharing their story and bringing hope to others dealing with similar issues. They've found healing and for that I'm thankful. Many people have found it encouraging. I did not interview the other people involved (I'm not an investigative journalist) but I have known them for a while and know several others who know them as well and believe them to be credible or I would not have hosted them. For the record, the past leadership in that particular district of the UPCI has not exactly had the best of reputations (Wisconsin).
It's a good verse. It's always good to get together with other believers to spur one another on to love and good deeds and to encourage one another. There are many ways to do that in our modern world. Scripture isn't clear on how often, or with how many people... The way most modern day churches are run like businesses and the unbiblical/self help sermons that are being preached are also not found laid out in scripture so it's hard to make a clear case requiring people to attend. I feel like different things work for different people.
@@ResponsibleFaith I don't disagree that there are ways to assemble ourselves and Jesus himself said where two or three are gathered in my name there I shall be in the midst I guess the reason I ask is because this is one thing that is brought up a lot when you don't attend as many times as the church doors are open is that you are forsaking the assembling of yourself
I don't attend at all. I hear that verse constantly. I have grown weary with corporate Christianity and seen way too much spiritual abuse. I took what was supposed to be a years "sabbatical". After that, we visited churches, looking for something with some healthy boundaries. Eventually we just gave up. My "Sabbatical" has turned into 13 years of being peacefully unchurched in the traditional sense. My faith is strong. We were involved in home church for about 4 years, and I've been involved in Bible study groups (currently involved in an online one that is full of some of the most wonderful women I've ever met). I fellowship with believers...but people do throw that verse around in an effort to control peoples lives and that wasn't the point of it. For the first 30 years of my life, I attended church multiple times per week. I'm worn out on it. I joke that having grown up Pentecostal, I've already fulfilled my lifetime "church attendance quota". lol
@@ResponsibleFaith The Bible says in Hebrews 10 25 is where that verse is found and it is clear on how often, it states "so much the MORE' as ye see the day approaching, meaning His soon return. as as for the how many people, it says "where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name there he will be in the midst of them.
I feel like Matthew 18:20 is going to end up being my battle cry for out of context verses. This scripture has NOTHING to do with gathering together for Worship and has EVERYTHING to do with church discipline. It's the promise that if we are following the path Jesus laid out before us in 'church discipline', then He will be with us or approve with us the decision we make (concerning the discipline). Spread the word!!! Because the implication people hear when you say it out of context is that God is only with us when at least 2 or 3 people gather...and how is that biblical??? Here's a good article on the subject. www.rethinknow.org/matthew-18-20-meaning/
Acts 2:38 isn't even our gospel. It was what Israel needed at the time, but it's not the gospel to the Body of Christ today. Read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
I just wanted to tell you how healing your channel has been to me. I know the Lord had His Divine Hand I’m allowing me to find you. I wrote to you before and told you of my brother etc. But I wanted to tell you how much God love for me brought me to true Salvation. I won’t go in to all my detail but I was adopted my twin and I. We were brought up from the time they brought us home. It was more my mom who was in it then my dad. I think he just went so she would shut up. As a little girl we had horrible abuse and of course you did not talk of it. Our family was of means financial we never wanted for nothing but love. Every time my mother which was daily if not more than once a day beat us. I would go in my room and cry my heart out to God as a little girl not understanding. I know this may sound like I’m stretching the truth but Gods Glory would come in that room like a mist fog it was tangible and comfort me. Speed up years later I was forced to marry a man from Gateway College who was abusive more so than my mom. However he played mind games. I had little ones but one day I got in my car and left. Long story short I was abducted by a rogue police office and he kept talking about this mans name. Just so happen this man was his drug and alcohol counselor when he was in rehab. Anyway God saved me from being murdered. The man who was the counselor saved my life. He was running from God he use to be a Baptist preacher in the red light distance of Okinawa in the service. Any way fast forward God got me out of a situation to where my ex was going to try and commit me so it was God that truly got me in that because I would have never left my children. We had several ministries. We seen God do unbelievable things. But the point I am trying to stress is God seen my heart even though I was lost and didn’t even know it. God got me out and the man that now is my husband for 27 years taught me about true salvation. I ask God why He allowed my mother to adopt us. The answer came in a dream God showed me a huge steel structure but nothing was on it. He stated that He knew she would take us to church and learn about a Him and that’s why I had such child like faith still do. He got me out and built the rest of the structure the true way of Salvation. I can NEVER THANK MY GOD ENOUGH FOR LOVING ME SO MUCH TO REACH DOWN PULL ME OUT BECAUSE HE KNEW MY HEART WAS PURE. WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL AWESOME GOD. I PRAY FOR THOSE IN THE UPC THAT WANT OUT BUT ARE SCARED BECAUSE JESUS IS COMING SO SOON. I mentioned Lee Stoneking to you last time. I listened to one of his talks etc. I could not believe my ears this man had the audacity to say with out ACTS 2:38 The Bible is a Complete HULL and the people were saying praise God . So sad. But thank you I love your channel it has brought healing I didn’t realize I needed. God bless you.
I'm so sorry for all the pain you've been through Michelle and am happy to hear that you're healing. God is so faithful. When we look back at everything he's brought us through it's just amazing. God bless you as you continue to heal.
Holy churches are few, presence is members of congregation that are True People first honest Christians are second, born again believers are Third, beliefs are in the homes first , carried to churches Fasting & Prayers are Best strengthening Godhead for Holiness not Homless,Screaming in churches deafen the ears of True believing Christians, Praising, Worshipping, Prayers Holding leaders of churches in Court system is Forgiveness process,That is my last page of my book,🕊️ Justified.
The Henry's story is a behind the scenes peek at what goes on from the perspective of pastors/missionaries. Unless you too are a pastor/missionary it makes sense you wouldn't have seen any of what they are describing. Most saints don't have a clue what goes on at the leadership/district level.
Hi I just came across this video, it makes me very sad because I belong to an apostolic Pentecostal......UPC but! I’d like the idea of holiness to a certain point. I believe a woman should look like a woman, and a child like a child, not a child looking like a 40-year-old woman lawyers and layers of clothing,Respectfully to others. what I mean with this is that everything has to have a common ground, it Has’s to make sense. For example like a UPC when we go to the beach, I don’t believe for a woman to go inside the The ocean with a dress, I believe it’s OK to go in with some shorts and a T-shirt, I also believe that I men should have the option to where a beer if they want. a A nice trim one not very long so it doesn’t look gross something nice something trim, nothing crazy, I believe a woman should wear a ring if you’re married because it mean that you Married and those vowels were made between a man and a woman and God. I can give so many other examples but it would be too long. Lately I’ve been looking for a new church because were moving out of state fromCalifornia and we’re going to Northwest Arkansas one of the most beautiful states ever in the process of looking for a new church and I think we found one! ....the man where in this church were the rings women do to also a man have a small beer and not everyone where’s a tie at this church, it is a Pentecostal apostolic church UPC Pentecostal UPCI it makes. I wonder if things are truly changing, for the Penecostal world.
Your views are very liberal (sensible) for a UPC member. It would be nice if things changed in the UPCI/Apostolic world. I have seen plenty of superficial changes over the years...the boys are now allowed to wear shorts if part of a sports uniform in some places, they lightened up on their TV/movie watching, they now allow "worldly entertainment" they wouldn't have 30 years ago (sporting events, cruises...), many churches now allow men to wear beards, but I've noticed the changes usually tend to benefit the men/boys.
I've said it many times....They try to become God in people's lives. Little Demi Gods upon a pedestal that we should strive to please and pay those tithes and offerings. Soooooo Wrong! I'm out and could write a trilogy of my experiences.
@@ResponsibleFaith They are trying to get those that are in the UPCI Organization to leave it. Talk about God and His love for us and how He loves us so much that He gave his life to set us free from sin instead!
My prayers will be with you. So sorry you feel you must tear the UPCI church down. You’re doing a great job in satan’s kingdom. This is totally untrue .
I assure you, the Henry's are very honest people and what they shared with me is true. Just because someone disagrees with the UPCI doesn't mean they're working for Satan's kingdom.
This is so painful to hear. People are so taken in by the deceiver. To live their life living for The truth of the Apostolic faith. To walk out, because of the lies of the deceiver. Prayers that God will lead you.
Was the teachings of the apostles man made?. So do these people still gather together as we were instructed? I know some who have left and now follow the Trinity. God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost are one.
What do you mean "gather as instructed"? Where does scripture tell us how often and with what specific structure/denomination to gather? You mentioned being "Apostolic"...are you really? In the book of Acts the broke bread daily in each others homes, sold all the had to give to the poor, fed the widow's, and their tongues were actual understandable languages...are you really "Apostolic" like that? As to the Trinity, I hope you realize that Trinitarians also believe in one God. The difference in view lies mostly in their interpretation of how those 3 are manifested/embodied. Oneness people often misrepresent that. I don't know where they stand on these issues you brought up. They simply shared their story of leaving the UPCI. I believe them. I've heard from others who have privately confirmed the toxicity of some of the names they mentioned. I can tell you this...the church is not a building, it's the collective group of the body of believers (worldwide) and this wonderful couple is certainly part of that body. As am I. I hope you are too.
There is no way that the doctrine of UPC is biblical. It’s a doctrine that has developed over the past 100 years. Statements like “the name of the Father and Holy Ghost is Jesus” , “you must speak in tongues to be saved” and the Magic Holy Hair belief. So much heresy is found in Oneness churches.
Madam, don't you think you can address these issues without putting UPC as the object of your attacks. Remember due to the fallen nature of mankind theres no church or ministry that is perfect. And as a believer you are missing that point. Instead of you dedicating your precious time to winning souls into God's kingdom or teaching the word of God to strength the faith of fellow Christians you have chosen to be irresponsible by constantly attacking the place where you actually met the Lord except that you don't like how they treated you. You are equally as guilty as they are on treating others. As it is its you now who is playing holier than thou. To be honest with you , you have not forgiven them for how they treated you as a youth. You feel if they didn't influence the break up with your first boy friend your marital life would have been better than the experiences you have had in this regard. Please forgive them and if you think what you went through needs to be shared its honourable or more responsible if you removed the name of UPC from your discussions. My sister you may never know has bad as you think UPC is, God is still using the ministers in there to take people out of the hands of the devil and for that God is happy with them. The other noble action you can take is write to the UPC leadership about all these issues you raise publicly. What you are currently doing is washing dirty linen in the public. We may be in different churches but before God we belong to one family, the church of Jesus Christ. I live in Zambia and because of my plans to travel to Canada I was checking for pentecostal churches I can fellowship with and UPC came up and also your videos came up. I listen to wonderful sermons by UPC pastors then came your attacks on the church and it has really made me indifferent about UPC. Any God knows our ways.
Sadly, due to the legalistic nature of the UPC teachings and the controlling hierarchy in many of their churches...they have left a wake of casualties in their path. I just happen to be one of them. I cannot address these issues without naming them because my goal is to make my videos easy to find for ex UPC people who are struggling with their hurt. Sharing these stories helps them realize they aren't alone and that there is healing on the other side of their pain. I can tell you there is a dynamic in their churches that would not be easily discerned in a preaching video. As to why not just go to them directly, the couple in this video tried and they wouldn't hear them. I know many others who also have tried and they are not heard. It's a waste of time and often the things you say are used against you. You've made several false accusations against me in your comment. I think you're misunderstanding why I left the UPC. I left over doctrinal disagreement, not hurt feelings. The boyfriend I mentioned was not UPC and they had nothing to do with that (plus I was just a kid at the time). The story I shared happened a long time ago, it's been over 17 years since I left. I have no hard feelings, just a tender heart toward people who have been hurt by that group as well. If you're looking for Pentecostal churches to fellowship with in Canada, you could try the ACOP or the PAOC. They are both Pentecostal organizations that would be a bit more balanced. I might also add that while some of the UPC ministers are "taking people out of the hands of the devil" there are also MANY who are driving sincere people away from God. That does not make God happy. They also tend to cause people to put their faith in their own works instead of solely on the finished work of the cross. If you look at my channel, it is not just focused on the UPC. I do address topics with scripture to clarify some of the false teachings that exist in the church today. That is hopefully a component in strengthening the faith of fellow believers.
As someone who is damaged, broken and hurting, reeling from the unwarranted attacks, and alone picking up the pieces from loss of friends and purpose, as well as divorce and a broken home, mostly due to the damage created by experiences in the UPCI, I respectfully ask you to consider moving along. I myself, am finding it a blessing to have come across this video and support group as I learn to grieve and heal. There are good people in and out of the UPCI, as there is in other denominations and religions. This just happens to be OUR experience and OUR journey. Its finally good to know I am not alone as I thought I once was. Feel free to believe as you wish and allow for us to support one another and draw closer to Christ through freedom. I believe that souls are being one through this support group and these videos because clearly the UPCI is lacking in the ability to keep the sheep that were under their care. (Born and raised in UPCI going on 43 years)
This is not an attack on the church but support for those who've been attacked BY the UPCI. Until you have walked in my shoes, please take YOUR judgements elsewhere.
Bitterness will consume you. I pray you will be released from the demons that are torturing you. The UPC is striving to seek and to save those who are lost. Why is your ministry devoted to hate for the UPC? Christians should be trying to save the lost. Your ministry seems to be devoted to division. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.
No "bitterness", no "demons torturing" us...nothing that dramatic, just stories of impropriety and spiritually abusive treatment that appear to make you uncomfortable. I wish the actual abuse made UPC'ers as uncomfortable as they are when someone speaks out about it. It would make my job a lot easier. I have no doubt the UPC is seeking to save the "lost"...which to many of them is practically every Christian who doesn't think exactly like them on every point. That's the bulk of Christianity. I mentioned in another response to you that I have no hatred towards the UPC, only compassion towards those they've abused and misled. My ministry is not devoted to division, but if you have a group that pollutes the gospel of grace and abuses their people, offering them no assurance of salvation...then I guess I would be forced to divide myself from them.
The Truth! I knew Brian and Esther Henry very well during there short time in Southern WI. I was on the ministry staff, with a fair amount of responsibility for 5 - 7 years. I had to leave the organization (for a season) because of the Henrys. There was not operation of gifts or healings, etc.., while the Henrys were there, and they always had to blame others. The district was left with an empty building, about to foreclose, because the membership went from ~150 to 8 People on my last visit there. I feel sad that they would blame others, and burn the bridges they worked hard, over the years to establish. Please don't let or use their fabricated story turn you from an intimate relationship with the Lord, Jesus. I felt in my heart that the Henry's drifted from their first love, they started doing some unusual and unscriptural things. They are very likable and somewhat credible, however they are sadly mistaken by what actually happened. I'm glad they were punished (rejoice in your trials), and think they are doing themselves serious danger to blame upper administration and try to hurt an organization that is responsible for their finding and coming to the Truth. I shouldn't have to name all the great men of God affiliated with the UPCI that have been used mightily over the decades by Jesus to lead masses to salvation. The Henry's tried to break away from the organization, in many, many ways. We must all get on our knees to repent for Pride of life ( watch the video ), Lust of the eyes and flesh, which are working with the forces of darkness, which is against the mighty works of the Lord. Thank you for reading my heartfelt explanation.
For some added context to this comment/commenter...when it didn't appear under the video quickly enough to suit him, he emailed me to accuse me of deleting it and to tell me that I am a "very manipulative person who does not love Jesus", and that I am "responsible for helping satan and his fallen angels", that I will be cursed, and will "live a very short life, likely cancerous" if I don't "change my wicked ways". He also mentioned how many people have died for speaking out against "men/women of God" (implying I would be one of those people). He then signed it "Representing Jesus Christ"...which I can assure you, he most certainly does not. Same old game, same old tactics (trying to silence by instilling fear). Some things never change in these groups. It gets tiresome.
@@ResponsibleFaith Ah, yes, they learned UPC scare tactics well. Fear permeates the teachings in the UPC, so it's no wonder that their ministers and members resort to this. What a sad way to believe, that God is going to strike dead someone simply because their comment didn't appear quickly enough on a TH-cam channel. What a twisted and distorted view of God they have.
Actually, it speaks VERY WELL of the Henry's that they did not put on a Pentecostal show or do fake healings to grow or maintain their church size. Were they too busy teaching God's actual Word? Would you shame them for that? Who has the problem? Search your heart, Doug Roska.
God entered into my body, like a body. my same size. I am the worlds only holy ghost filled, born again, christian. a billion go to church and seek what only one has.
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Found identity. Genuine faith. Overcomers. I could listen to them for hours. (Love you Brian and Esther)
Thank you, Janet. It was so nice to see your husband and son last week! Missed seeing you! ❤️
Simple Home and Hearth Online ... You’re welcome sweetheart. My thoughts were there, for sure. You know that I have an exodus story of my own. God is greatly to be praised.
I love what Esther and her husband said about when you are hurting and people think you're bitter. Its true, people normally want to fix you or think it can be fixed one night at the alter. And that is not how the way things normally work. It took me a while to figure this out bit in the meantime, I thought something was wrong with me because I wasnt overcoming my grief. It took time to get better
Thank you for your comments. So true, isn’t it?! You’re on the right track! Sometimes I think the hardest thing to do is to give OURSELVES a bit of grace, too! Harder said than done...
I can absolutely relate to this comment. What he said too about your identity being wrapped up in who you are being for the organization and not for Christ. It's a distracting burden.
Brian and Esther, thanks for sharing your story. I enjoyed listening to it very much. WOW what a journey you had. God was leading you all the way. Blessings.
Thank you Uncle Gary! So glad you finally heard our story! It was so nice to see you at Mom’s memorial service this week. It meant a lot for you to be there. ❤️
@@simplehomeandhearthonline7182 I did not know that all of this happened to you. I am stunned at what you went through. Praise be to God, He was in control all the time. When all of the events of our lives are over, we will look back and see the plan of God was in everything. Isn't it wonderful to know that we are being made partakers of a heavenly calling?
What a plan, what a purpose, WHAT A GOD. I love you both.
Thank you Brian and Esther! You two are such beautiful people! Thank you for sharing your journey!
Thank you, my dear friend!
Thank you for being willing to share. So much of what you said is relatable. That loss of identity...
Thank you Brian and Esther for sharing your story. We had similar happen to us and I guess after listening to you I am still in the grieving process after 6 years. Your story has helped me SO much. I was told by my therapist that I have PTSD.
I need to add after your ending...i had to disconnect from the former people because i could not trust them. They were only there to spy on us and gossip about us. Your story ends so good!!
Thank you! We’re so glad our story helped you! We did the same thing: got off of social media for several months, then before becoming active again, we deleted over half of our “friends” list! Boundaries MUST be drawn for the healing process to continue. Good for you!
Well I'm only 14 min in and I'm having floods of memories. Brian and Esther I'm so glad you made it out! Just wish my in laws hadn't been so entrenched. Wlm Markham was one of the last moderates in FMD. Miss him so!
Beautiful couple. I didn’t know that P.T.S.D. was so prevalent among people who have left abusive churches but given the programming people have to overcome, I can understand. I went back for one service about a year ago and felt an anxiousness that made me feel physically sick. I didn’t know what it was at that time but it makes sense to me now. I was also glad to hear that anger and bitterness are actually a healthy coping mechanism that aids in the healing process. I understand the anger at having been deceived and the bitterness that cries for justification but forgiveness is a powerful healing tool, as well. I also like what she said about it being a relationship with GOD without performance, which fosters peace. This was a very informative interview.
PTSD is VERY much apart of leaving UPCI
I didn’t even realize I had it til very recently when someone made a reel and shared a sermon that I remember almost word for word! I should’ve realized it due to my doubts and questions as a child/teen/ young adult, and cptsd from my abusive ex husband.
I appreciate this interview. I happened on it by chance. I love the idea of GOD's GRACE. We can't possibly work hard enough to EARN grace. I was raised atheist and at the age of 16 in '74 my 1st encounter with GOD was at a UPC church. The FEAR of GOD is what kept us "in line." We were taught more about hell than about the LOVE of GOD. So a few of us sat among racists trying to save our souls while they spoke in tongues and shouted as one of the elders stood up and gave us a "bible" study about why their young white sons should not date these young Black girls. They LOVED us in their churches singing, bringing "soul" to the service. But they never loved US. After 6 years I left.
I've worked in 2 churches since then...independent! It wasn't until my late 50's that I truly experienced the LIBERTY of Grace. Not to use as an occasion to sin, but when I fall short...I can go Boldly before the throne.
I TRULY APPRECIATED this interview. Although my story is not the same as theirs it still reveals the pain executed by those who desire to Control the lives of others instead of assisting to Guide.
You now have a new subscribe😄
The racism in some of these churches is horrible! They should be ashamed of themselves. I'm so glad you've experienced grace! Thank you for subscribing. ☺
As a pastor's son, I know;
There exist no other trouble, like Church trouble.
😥
I grew up in the ALJC. The church I grew up in is now in UPCI. I left in 2020. I relate so much to you. I’m happy to have broken away and there has been a lot of therapy to help me get past it. I also identified with Brian with Stockton CLC. I grew up singing the youth choir’s songs. NorCal as well. I won’t call out the people’s names because I still think they’re awesome, but... it really grips you. Hell fire and brimstone. So afraid that if you get off the pew, you’d fall right into hell.
I’m happy to have broken away.
Great interview and encouraging to those who have left. Glad to hear more of your story and journey!
Love the transparency between these two. I am ready to go back to a nondenominational church. Now, I pray that my husband’s eyes are opened soon ! 😀
I grew up in the independent holiness movement and this makes me wonder what kinds of things some of the “ex” ministers I knew growing up went through behind the scenes. 😢
I wondered the same. But am afraid to know
Yes think of this as well
What a marvelous couple! God Bless these people who went through a lot, but restored with the help of the Lord!You guys are truly blessed!
I used to say I was a “Recovering Apostolic”
I’m former UPC too. It’s a bunch of self righteous folks who are critical and judge-mental!
Brian and Ester. Your story is much like mine. 3 rd generation UPC. 24 years a licensed and ordained minister. But there came a time……. God bless you going forward in Christ. It has been 26 years since then, there is abundant life after the UPCI. I was in Wisconsin also when I left the upc.
Great interview. So glad Brian & Esther have found a happy place and are enjoying God in freedom.
Thank you 🙏❤️
I left for so many reasons .
But the control is still haunting me at times .
Hang in there. Keep living your life.
I'm sorry to hear that Linda. If you're ever interested in support groups with people who understand just let me know @ deannajonorton@gmail.com
Responsible Faith the scripture. Come out of her my people. Rings in my ears when I think of the UPC . As I read the words of Jesus . The judgment and condemnation. The dress code and the always feeling like I’m not saved . I read his words and see them as The Pharisees . At least that comes to my mind . And coming out of her was freedom in Christ. Iv learned so much more because now He teaches me all things and leads me to all truth . Thank you sister for your offer . I have family in the church and it makes it hard . I was just recently attack by two of them . Because they can’t control me .
Do you have people in ma that meet ? Or is on line ? I will email later today . Thank u
The support groups are private online communities.
Be free in Jesus Name
Love seeing your faces😀. Resonate with your story and I’m sorry you had to go through all of that. My heart hurts for y’all. I Feel so old hearing the beginning of your story...brings back old feelings and memories. I have fond memories of both of you. Love you Brian and Ester and we would love to catch up with y’all.
Great video! It has been many years since I was involved in Pentecostal style churches, or other smaller type denominations. After watching a few of your videos I remember why I left these style of churches, even if some of them weren’t outright cults they tended to be about battling for little positions of authority in their church and building up their own little personal kingdoms. I just got tired if it all. I actually thought I hadn’t been scarred too much by these experiences but after watching a few of your videos it has brought up unresolved feelings of sadness as well as other emotions. Nowadays I go to an institutional church some but I don’t take it too serious. My personal relationship with God and learning to forgive and love others is what matters the most too me. God bless and thanks for all the work you do by providing these encouraging videos.
Thank you. It is funny how much unresolved emotional baggage we have under the surface. I've been out for 18 yrs and found that hashing it all back up has exposed some tender areas in me as well. Sometimes hearing another share their story reminds us of things we forgot about. Healing is a process.
Wow I saw some of this. I cannot attend due to health issues plus my husband can barely walk. It was family click but did not know til I could physically not go. We have lived where we are now……7 yrs.I have gone a few times they know our issues but hear from no one. However I have learned so much from an online mister that teaches book by book.
Great interview. Bless You
What a testimony.
me and my wife didnt know when we fell for the upci for a couple yrs..it took me a while to figure it out..i just sit home and prayed while i sent my wife to church weekly then she came home crying.because of the controll and the shunning..and right now we dont go to church..we are once bit and twice shy
So sorry to hear that, but I do understand. The controlling and the shunning are both so hard to heal from! Thankfully God is near to the brokenhearted and church attendance is not a matter of salvation. I hope you can find some Christian fellowship somewhere as support while you heal (whatever that might look like and no matter how informal).
Wow, I don't know how I came across this! We went to Frank LaCrosses Church together! Thank you for sharing your story you guys! I love you Brian and Esther!!💝
This couple helped me more than any other video.
I went to CLC with the Henry's. Love and respect them. They are people of excellence and integrity.
Thank you for sharing!! I live in Samoa and have just starting attending UPC branch here in Samoa. We love the missionaries who have been called here. Beautiful.couple. It's a start up church and I am just learning about the doctrine. This has been helpful to understand the bigger church picture. Would have loved to have this couple be missionaries here in Samoa too 🇼🇸
I was being torn apart my mom granny and great grandma was telling me I was to he'll for wearing pants,then my husband was telling me if I kept wearing dresses he was going to leave so day I was sitting on the porch I heard God tell me Rebecca I want you to read acts 13 through 15 so when I finished I heard him say now did I say anything about pants r dresses.
I'm sorry you were under so much pressure. I'm happy to hear you've found peace concerning the topic.
as far as I know in Dueteronomy 22:5 it says it is an abomination, something that God hates, and God is the same yesterday today and forever and he changes not and is no respecter of persons, so my thought is if God hated it back then in Bible times, then it is still something that he hates today.
I don't think the Wisconsin UPCI district board have ANY RIGHT to be judging this wonderful couple!! Their HORRIBLE RECORD on cover ups of child sexual abuse by leadership is absolutely DISGUSTING!!
It takes years to detox; still have family in it!
Having family still "in" certainly complicates things.
Thank you Henry & Esther.
Gene Zimmki is the pastor that sold flowers on the side of the road in Puyallup. I grew up in WA, Brain you actaully went to church with some of my family in Tacoma, I remember you from my teen years. I went to CLC too, but right after you. I left the UPC about 20 years ago. I found this very interesting, frustraiting and sad. I'm sorry you have had to go through this, but God knows the way to truly set us free!
I can't believe how common this is. It happened to my family.
I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you are all doing well now.
This is so familiar to me!! I was married 26 years UPCI pastor is a known homosexual!! 😭😭 (I stayed bc it was the Christian thing to do!)
I’m ostracized and he’s still a licensed pastor. Every day is a struggled...
I'm sorry to hear that Deb. It would hurt to realize how disloyal they were to you even though you tried to do what you felt was right at the time. Your story is similar to a couple of others I've heard. If you're interested in more resources and even a couple of private online FB support groups, you can email me at deannajonorton@gmail.com and I'd be happy to send you that information. Support is so helpful. It's comforting to know that other people do understand and that you're not alone.
Do Brian and Esther have a TH-cam channel to follow, if you mentioned it i missed the name.
Another great video! Thank you for making these. 🤍
The church is being launch out to the world to “Go” be His disciples. At our church Wednesday night is missional night with group meetings in homes, our pastor is trying to launch us out to our world. He says it may be one day that we cannot meet at church. He’s all about relationships with others and God, he teaches us how that looks. Assembly of God is where I go , in Oklahoma, very small town, Wetumka. I feel privileged to have such a good pastor to lead me.
Thank you for sharing this. It helps!
Sorry for this long post….I’m currently attending an Apostolic Church….”Guilt shamed”….that’s where I’m currently at. Husband and I haven’t lived together since October 2020. Husband ended up in prison and I and our now 5 yo son moved in with my mother. I got Holy Ghost in 1993. My husband never been in church. Fast forward to 2022 July. Husband out of prison and he’s visited a handful of times. We’ve been living separately for 2 1/2 years. I started praying for a new “home” from the moment we lost everything in 2020. Several people have told me “God can do anything”. I’ve always been a somewhat cynical person. Now, concerning a “home”. I would ask God to make a way where there seemed to be no way. Not realizing the door would soon be opened. Here I am thinking I would still be here in Phoenix, AZ. So, my husbands aunt called and told him she/her husband had a house we could rent. The only problem(well, not really a problem per say), it’s in GA. When my husband told me this, I was like “I don’t wanna go to GA”. I continued to pray and ask God to open a door here. We had to give our answer by February 1, 2023. As time went on, I started to “doubt” God was gonna provide. We looked for rentals here in North Phoenix area. It’s also where the church I go to is located. Rental prices here are outrageous. The stipulations are even more ridiculous. We’re not rich, by any means. Most decent rentals are like $1800-$2500 a month. Meanwhile, people kept asking how home hunting was going. I’d tell them and they’d all say “keep praying”. Time went on. February rolled around. Had to give decision on GA rental. We said yes. Now this decision was t done lightly, either. I’ve prayed/fasted for 2 1/2 years. It wasn’t done as a “spur of the moment” type thing. Right then, the guilt set in. What’s my pastor gonna think. What are the congregants gonna think. On and on. When I spoke to a close friend(who’s a Christian counselor in same church), she stopped me and said “sister, do you hear what you’re saying”. I realized right then and there, GOD has answered my prayer for a home and for a way for our family to be under the SAmE roof. I then started to thank God for HIS provision. All the while, I’ve got people(including the pastor), telling me/advising me it’s not what God wants for me. Now, I know I shouldn’t say anything negative about the pastor. However, even the pastor believes a familial breakup is best in MY situation. I’m in church, my husband is not. They’re of the belief that if I leave, I’m losing my soul and going to hell. And I’m taking my son with me. Talk about major fear tactic. Pastor even said he would “pray God would throw a wrench in my move”. Others would say “God would bless your family if my husband would just come to church and accept the word”, etc. So are they trying to tell me God won’t bless unless you’re IN the CHURCH( more specifically THIS particular church)? I mean, I could be TOTALLY wrong and listening to the devil ya know. I’m feeling “confused/conflicted”. Any advice is coveted. A Heaven or bell issue: pantyhose and short sleeves are NOT a Heaven or bell issue. But, the church I’m currently attending thinks/teaches/preaches differently. That’s what happened to my husband. The whole “male dress code” and facial hair subject. Right off the bat, 1st message or subject pastor taught/preached/mentioned over the pulpit was clothing and facial hair. Then, another time another male saint in the church got ahold of him and told him he’d go to hell if he didn’t “change” and follow their ideals. That turned my husband off real quick. That also ticked me off, too. That’s NOT how you win someone over to God.
“Passive/Aggressive”….👍🤚…I’m dealing with it….do y’all know Ken Gurley out of Pearland, TX?
Thank You Brian and Esther so much for sharing this story. I’m sure it helps a ton of folks
I too left the UPC, but I still have much of my family that is in the organization and I love all the people that I grew up with. My experience was different than many of you. I don't have bitterness or hard feelings toward the UPC organization or to the people or church that I grew up in. I had a wonderful childhood and went to a great church in St. Louis. I too went to Gateway and then Jackson College of Ministries. Was it perfect? No. However, I do believe that God is in those churches and I would never want to be part of putting the ministry or the beautiful people in a bad light. I left because I became more sensitive to the legalistic nature of some of the teaching. I am sorry to hear about this couple's problems. I have seen other people who have had trouble in the ministry when dealing with certain ministers and it is a shame. I don't think these things are unique to the UPC. I think many church organizations have similar problems when people get out of the will of God and start running the show as they think it should be done.
I too love the people I grew up with in the UPC and have friends and family still in the organization (even in ministry). I don't have bitterness or hard feelings against anyone either, nor did I expect things to be perfect...that would be silly. I appreciate the Henry's having the courage to share their experience, it's much harder to do than you would think. I hear from many people who have experienced similar things to myself, Brian & Esther...who are broken and hurting, which is our reason for sharing. We're trying to offer comfort to the walking wounded. I even occasionally hear from people still in who feel that the abuse they've seen is wrong and are thankful somebody is talking about it. In an organization with so much legalism (also the reason I left), I do believe that these problems flourish a bit more than other non-legalistic groups because of all the "rules", but of course they do exist elsewhere as well. Leadership has become quite political and as a result...produced spiritual abuse and a lack of healthy boundaries that has hurt and crushed people. It's heartbreaking. It's actually love and compassion that has prompted my channel.
I talk about the UPC and Pentecostalism because that is my experience/background. If I had experienced my spiritual abuse in the IFB church, I would no doubt be talking about that and featuring guests with that same background. I also have no doubt that if that were the case, the IFB people would be on here using the "it's not just in the IFB, this is in all organizations" defense.
@@ResponsibleFaith Hmmm...I was merely trying to say that there are some people who are doing the things that you are saying, but there are many wonderful people of God in the UPC. I understand that your hurt goes deep...so I hope that you will experience the healing that you are looking for. God's blessings to you.
Thank you, I actually have experienced healing (my exit was 17 years ago). The purpose for these conversations is for people who are currently dealing with fresh abuse to feel understood and comforted (that there is healing and hope).
Thank you for sharing ❤️
You’re welcome. Thank you for watching.
Thank you for sharing your story!
You’re welcome. Thank you for watching.
It seems the UPCI targets military bases...that was how I was hooked into it.
Due to my health (epilepsy) my only option for college when living in California was to go to CLC which I tried, I honestly did. It was easy to get the recommendation letters as I’d been a good church girl and never caused trouble. Always kept my person thoughts and doubts to myself. I went to study music in fall 2007, but only lasted 2-3 months. During that time I lost about 35lbs due to stress, I barely ate one meal a day. Cali is very strict and I had no issue being away from my parents but this was even more strict and all my doubts just became more amplified. My mom said I looked skeletal when I returned home, she had no idea and I had no way to explain how I felt. 14 years later I’m finally learning the truth and how to explain it thanks to your channel and BereanHoliness. Thank you so much. These videos are amazing and encouraging.
I attended CLC from 98-2001 the leadership was different. They expect certain things from leaders and students of course. I never once heard a sermon on standards or anything legalistic but shin the leadership of the college and church were different people at the time. I would trade anything for my journey there or my experience and knowledge. I no longer believe in the standards to a point and a lot of other things. I wouldn’t thank God for backsliding but it took me not going to UPC churches to open my eyes to a LOT OF THINGS and I thanks God for grace!
I’m a TBC alumn….graduated 2000
Frank LaCrosse was my uncle by marriage. His second wife ( he remarried after his first wife died from illness) is my aunt. Uncle Frank was a very kind man. I never had the opportunity to hear him preach.
My pastor here in Venice Florida. Went to Life center in Stockton California.
I wish there was a way I could talk to this couple. We are missionaries in Honduras and
it would be great to have a time of sharing with what we've been through. Similar to UPCI
but we are a different denomination. We have family members that are UPCI.
Thanks very much for sharing your story. Your brother gave you wise advice 😅🙏
47:33...I have been saying this exact same thing! I wish there was a pill people could take that would wipe their mind clean and start over reading the Bible. Use it to form their doctrine instead of trying to make the Bible fit a doctrine they have been taught.
Amen!! God's Word is sufficient. 😃
And even then, take it slow. Pray. Be careful who you listen to for doctrine. Some people do a "clean slate," say they are getting it all from the Bible, and then go off into some old already-disproven heresy. Sigh. These folks are usually very dogmatic and fleshly below a facade of charm or holiness. Just beware of folks like this. They are in churches and out of churches.
Brian says he read a book "Why i left" there are 3 different ones with that title. Wish he knew author or could remember by looking at these 3 on Amazon.
Anyone else ever read it?? Thanks 😒
Thank you for this video. God bless all of you. ❤️😊😎
Frank LaCrosse? Familiar name during my (very early days) in UPCI. If I’m not mistaken,he was in our section of churches as I was attending a church in Bremerton Wa.
If people leave the Church due to rules and legalistics then they went to the church for the wrong reasons, they started caring more about what the people were doing and saying and allowing themselves to become offended and hurt instead of the real reason that they should have been going to church in the first place, which is to worship God only. It is sad to see them turn away from the truth and potentially lose their souls because they let things people say and do offend them. The Bible said there would be a great falling away from the church the closer his coming and this interview videos show this to be happening. This reminds me of a verse in the Bible that says the devil will try to kill, steel and destroy. And one way of doing this is to cause division, discontentment, chaos, and other things to come into the church. I don't mind the rules and the so called "legalistics" of the church and get to the judgement day and find out I did more than I needed to than to find out I didn't do enough!
I won't address your incorrect judgmental assumptions about the Henry's or any of us who have left the UPC over legalism, but I would like to address your misapplication of John 10:10. That verse is not talking about "the devil", you read that into the verse. If you read the chapter, it's referring to false teachers telling people eternal life can be had any other way besides through Jesus Christ (the gate, the only way in). This is one of my favorite passages of scripture. No other way also includes 'rule keeping' with the hopes that you've "done enough" on judgment day. We bring nothing to our salvation but the sin that made it necessary. I have no problem with people who live/dress a certain way to try to live a life pleasing to God because they love him, but I truly hope you don't honestly think your 'rule keeping' is anything but filthy rags in comparison to the sacrifice of the Son of God. He made himself to be sin for us, so that in him (and only in him) we might become the righteousness of God. That is our only shot at righteousness. Faith in Christ and what he did for us on the cross is our only hope of eternal life. We bring nothing of value to the table (no matter how hard we try), and to think otherwise is arrogant, irreverent, and completely misses the true holiness of Almighty God and the flawed nature of our own humanity. If rule keeping could have given us eternal life, the law would have been fine in the OT and Christ would not have needed to die/take our punishment. I'm not trying to be rude in any way...I really hope you get this. It's so easy to be in love with Jesus when you fully understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's all in him, Jesus paid it all! ❤ There is no standing before God and having our works tallied up to see if we've "done enough" to merit salvation, we won't...that's a guarantee. I don't deserve this, but Jesus...the sinless lamb of God took my punishment and because I'm in him, my standing before God is perfect. Blameless! That's the good news. The outflow of our faith is a desire to live honorable, holy lives to please this heavenly father we love so much. Salvation produces good works, not the other way around.
Using our wounds and stories to bring comfort to others who have experienced abuse in the church is not "causing division, discontentment, chaos,...", too often unchecked spiritual abuse does that. For those of us out here trying to comfort and even throw a lifeline to those people...we're not surprised "the church" doesn't understand it. I wish you guys would stop pretending this isn't happening in your faith community. If the UPC isn't going to start being honest and acknowledge how much damage it has done over the years (often over foolishness), the least they can do is get out of the way and stop criticizing those of us who are trying to help people hold on to faith in Christ. These stories are not directed at the happily "churched", but they resonate deeply with those they are intended for.
@@ResponsibleFaith I'm not trying to be judgmental, I'm just saying I don't go to church because of "rules or lack thereof." I go to just worship God and Him alone, And I don't believe that I mentioned ANY Names of people in my comment, It is just an observation of What I am seeing more and more of in these last days. and I am just saying that I think it is sad that this is happening, but it is what the Bible says will happen. Watching this these videos makes me realize that I need to draw closer to God because the Devil is doing all that he can to spread discord among the brethren, and if he can he will kill your faith, steal your walk with God and destroy your soul. I just want to make sure that I am ready to meet the Lord when He comes and hear Him say "Well done though good and faithful servant" on the day of judgement.
You may not have mentioned names, but it's an odd comment to leave under this video if you weren't prompted by the Henry's and their story.
I too want to hear God say "Well done my good and faithful servant" to you, and to me.
@@ResponsibleFaith it just happened to be the video that I was watching at the time. I didn't even get to watch the whole video because I had to go somewhere, and I don't even know the Henrys so why would I even comment about them? anyway thanks for listening and chatting with me.
😯 i had know idea about UPCI history! Do you have any resources to reccomend for learning about this? Has anyone written a book as ynbiased and objective as reasonably feasible?
It's interesting that wrong doings aren't adequately addressed, if adressed at all, on the premise that UPC governance is congregational, i.e. each church is self-governing; yet if the church is large enough, headquarters makes sure to execute great control over it. Smh
This is excellent. I really enjoyed this!
Love your channel and the videos are so informative. I was raised in the upc and left a few years ago and have seen a lot of what you and this couple are speaking about. But I believe you’ll see this in every organization you join. It might LOOK different but it’s the same. I was a member of a non denominational church for a few years and I saw the same politics, nepotism and manipulation. People are people.
Thanks Coryna, and yes you're right about the politics and corruption being everywhere (a result of humanity). I've seen it too. I guess the thing that makes it harder to abide in "exclusive" groups, is that they take such pride in comparing their "holiness" with other Christians and holding themselves above the other denominations. In light of that, it always feel weird when a misconduct in their group is brought up and the first thing they do is lump themselves in with every other group. I feel like either their "holiness" is superior or it's not. Sadly there have been far to many abuses within all avenues of Christianity. Oftentimes the "system" of organization set in place to prevent these things prove useless.
Hi Deanna. If it’s not a problem I’m curious to know those UPCI pastors who committed suicide. That’s really sad to hear
If I heard Brian correctly they were beginning to question what was being taught, and some teaching in the scriptures. Could this be why upc asked them to step away from the ministry?
Just asking.
That's a very "white washed" assessment of Brian accepting the pastorate of a church and the previous pastor (who'd just become the District Superintendent) making trouble for him with the saints in the church as well as the district board until he could oust Brian and fast-track his son in-law into the position. I don't think anyone knew anything about Brian's mental questions. I also would highly doubt it had anything to do with them spiritually discerning that he was having questions...since when it comes to sexual abuse and domestic violence in their churches, they don't have an ounce of "discernment".
Did you ever get the other side of the story to be fair?
I hosted the Henrys for the purpose of sharing their story and bringing hope to others dealing with similar issues. They've found healing and for that I'm thankful. Many people have found it encouraging. I did not interview the other people involved (I'm not an investigative journalist) but I have known them for a while and know several others who know them as well and believe them to be credible or I would not have hosted them. For the record, the past leadership in that particular district of the UPCI has not exactly had the best of reputations (Wisconsin).
This just makes me so sad. My husband doesn’t believe me about the UPC!
What do you guys think about the scripture that says do not forsake the assembling of ourselves
It's a good verse. It's always good to get together with other believers to spur one another on to love and good deeds and to encourage one another. There are many ways to do that in our modern world. Scripture isn't clear on how often, or with how many people... The way most modern day churches are run like businesses and the unbiblical/self help sermons that are being preached are also not found laid out in scripture so it's hard to make a clear case requiring people to attend. I feel like different things work for different people.
@@ResponsibleFaith I don't disagree that there are ways to assemble ourselves and Jesus himself said where two or three are gathered in my name there I shall be in the midst I guess the reason I ask is because this is one thing that is brought up a lot when you don't attend as many times as the church doors are open is that you are forsaking the assembling of yourself
I don't attend at all. I hear that verse constantly. I have grown weary with corporate Christianity and seen way too much spiritual abuse. I took what was supposed to be a years "sabbatical". After that, we visited churches, looking for something with some healthy boundaries. Eventually we just gave up. My "Sabbatical" has turned into 13 years of being peacefully unchurched in the traditional sense. My faith is strong. We were involved in home church for about 4 years, and I've been involved in Bible study groups (currently involved in an online one that is full of some of the most wonderful women I've ever met). I fellowship with believers...but people do throw that verse around in an effort to control peoples lives and that wasn't the point of it.
For the first 30 years of my life, I attended church multiple times per week. I'm worn out on it. I joke that having grown up Pentecostal, I've already fulfilled my lifetime "church attendance quota". lol
@@ResponsibleFaith The Bible says in Hebrews 10 25 is where that verse is found and it is clear on how often, it states "so much the MORE' as ye see the day approaching, meaning His soon return. as as for the how many people, it says "where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name there he will be in the midst of them.
I feel like Matthew 18:20 is going to end up being my battle cry for out of context verses. This scripture has NOTHING to do with gathering together for Worship and has EVERYTHING to do with church discipline. It's the promise that if we are following the path Jesus laid out before us in 'church discipline', then He will be with us or approve with us the decision we make (concerning the discipline). Spread the word!!! Because the implication people hear when you say it out of context is that God is only with us when at least 2 or 3 people gather...and how is that biblical???
Here's a good article on the subject.
www.rethinknow.org/matthew-18-20-meaning/
Love what your doing!
Sounds like Pharisees to me. The upc church
Did they go to the UPC in mass /con district?
You mean in our travels as missionaries, or attended a church regularly in that district?
Acts 2:38 isn't even our gospel. It was what Israel needed at the time, but it's not the gospel to the Body of Christ today. Read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Sturgis Rider...Acts 2:38 is only for Israel at that time??? Acts 10 was directed towards the Gentiles is incorrect then???
I wish Henry would write a book.
How Could I Get the Henry’s email, would like to hear more of his takeaways from his experience.
I just wanted to tell you how healing your channel has been to me. I know the Lord had His Divine Hand I’m allowing me to find you. I wrote to you before and told you of my brother etc. But I wanted to tell you how much God love for me brought me to true Salvation. I won’t go in to all my detail but I was adopted my twin and I. We were brought up from the time they brought us home. It was more my mom who was in it then my dad. I think he just went so she would shut up. As a little girl we had horrible abuse and of course you did not talk of it. Our family was of means financial we never wanted for nothing but love. Every time my mother which was daily if not more than once a day beat us. I would go in my room and cry my heart out to God as a little girl not understanding. I know this may sound like I’m stretching the truth but Gods Glory would come in that room like a mist fog it was tangible and comfort me. Speed up years later I was forced to marry a man from Gateway College who was abusive more so than my mom. However he played mind games. I had little ones but one day I got in my car and left. Long story short I was abducted by a rogue police office and he kept talking about this mans name. Just so happen this man was his drug and alcohol counselor when he was in rehab. Anyway God saved me from being murdered. The man who was the counselor saved my life. He was running from God he use to be a Baptist preacher in the red light distance of Okinawa in the service. Any way fast forward God got me out of a situation to where my ex was going to try and commit me so it was God that truly got me in that because I would have never left my children. We had several ministries. We seen God do unbelievable things. But the point I am trying to stress is God seen my heart even though I was lost and didn’t even know it. God got me out and the man that now is my husband for 27 years taught me about true salvation. I ask God why He allowed my mother to adopt us. The answer came in a dream God showed me a huge steel structure but nothing was on it. He stated that He knew she would take us to church and learn about a Him and that’s why I had such child like faith still do. He got me out and built the rest of the structure the true way of Salvation. I can NEVER THANK MY GOD ENOUGH FOR LOVING ME SO MUCH TO REACH DOWN PULL ME OUT BECAUSE HE KNEW MY HEART WAS PURE. WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL AWESOME GOD. I PRAY FOR THOSE IN THE UPC THAT WANT OUT BUT ARE SCARED BECAUSE JESUS IS COMING SO SOON. I mentioned Lee Stoneking to you last time. I listened to one of his talks etc. I could not believe my ears this man had the audacity to say with out ACTS 2:38 The Bible is a Complete HULL and the people were saying praise God . So sad. But thank you I love your channel it has brought healing I didn’t realize I needed. God bless you.
I'm so sorry for all the pain you've been through Michelle and am happy to hear that you're healing. God is so faithful. When we look back at everything he's brought us through it's just amazing. God bless you as you continue to heal.
Wow, sounds lot like One Cup church of Christ. Lot of controllers in many groups.
Holy churches are few, presence is members of congregation that are True People first honest Christians are second, born again believers are Third, beliefs are in the homes first , carried to churches Fasting & Prayers are Best strengthening Godhead for Holiness not Homless,Screaming in churches deafen the ears of True believing Christians, Praising, Worshipping, Prayers Holding leaders of churches in Court system is Forgiveness process,That is my last page of my book,🕊️ Justified.
I'm still UPC and don't see any of this.
The Henry's story is a behind the scenes peek at what goes on from the perspective of pastors/missionaries. Unless you too are a pastor/missionary it makes sense you wouldn't have seen any of what they are describing. Most saints don't have a clue what goes on at the leadership/district level.
Hi I just came across this video, it makes me very sad because I belong to an apostolic Pentecostal......UPC but! I’d like the idea of holiness to a certain point. I believe a woman should look like a woman, and a child like a child, not a child looking like a 40-year-old woman lawyers and layers of clothing,Respectfully to others. what I mean with this is that everything has to have a common ground, it Has’s to make sense. For example like a UPC when we go to the beach, I don’t believe for a woman to go inside the The ocean with a dress, I believe it’s OK to go in with some shorts and a T-shirt, I also believe that I men should have the option to where a beer if they want. a A nice trim one not very long so it doesn’t look gross something nice something trim, nothing crazy, I believe a woman should wear a ring if you’re married because it mean that you Married and those vowels were made between a man and a woman and God. I can give so many other examples but it would be too long. Lately I’ve been looking for a new church because were moving out of state fromCalifornia and we’re going to Northwest Arkansas one of the most beautiful states ever in the process of looking for a new church and I think we found one! ....the man where in this church were the rings women do to also a man have a small beer and not everyone where’s a tie at this church, it is a Pentecostal apostolic church UPC Pentecostal UPCI it makes. I wonder if things are truly changing, for the Penecostal world.
Your views are very liberal (sensible) for a UPC member. It would be nice if things changed in the UPCI/Apostolic world. I have seen plenty of superficial changes over the years...the boys are now allowed to wear shorts if part of a sports uniform in some places, they lightened up on their TV/movie watching, they now allow "worldly entertainment" they wouldn't have 30 years ago (sporting events, cruises...), many churches now allow men to wear beards, but I've noticed the changes usually tend to benefit the men/boys.
I've said it many times....They try to become God in people's lives. Little Demi Gods upon a pedestal that we should strive to please and pay those tithes and offerings. Soooooo Wrong! I'm out and could write a trilogy of my experiences.
I couldn't agree more.
Tithing is not for new testament believers. It is free will giving for Christians.
This couple is brave; God blew them!
You need to be ministering in reaching out to the lost instead of leaving the UPCI ministry. That is not a ministry!!
Why would you assume they aren't reaching out to the lost?
@@ResponsibleFaith
They are trying to get those that are in the UPCI Organization to leave it. Talk about God and His love for us and how He loves us so much that He gave his life to set us free from sin instead!
My prayers will be with you. So sorry you feel you must tear the UPCI church down. You’re doing a great job in satan’s kingdom. This is totally untrue .
I assure you, the Henry's are very honest people and what they shared with me is true. Just because someone disagrees with the UPCI doesn't mean they're working for Satan's kingdom.
You know Jim Jones was a UPC pastor at one time right?
I'd never heard that before, I did read that he was an ordained minister in the Independent Assemblies of God.
Jim Jones was NOT a UPC pastor.
This is so painful to hear. People are so taken in by the deceiver. To live their life living for The truth of the Apostolic faith. To walk out, because of the lies of the deceiver. Prayers that God will lead you.
They did not leave the truth of Jesus Christ, they simply left a man-made organization.
Was the teachings of the apostles man made?. So do these people still gather together as we were instructed? I know some who have left and now follow the Trinity. God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost are one.
What do you mean "gather as instructed"? Where does scripture tell us how often and with what specific structure/denomination to gather? You mentioned being "Apostolic"...are you really? In the book of Acts the broke bread daily in each others homes, sold all the had to give to the poor, fed the widow's, and their tongues were actual understandable languages...are you really "Apostolic" like that? As to the Trinity, I hope you realize that Trinitarians also believe in one God. The difference in view lies mostly in their interpretation of how those 3 are manifested/embodied. Oneness people often misrepresent that. I don't know where they stand on these issues you brought up. They simply shared their story of leaving the UPCI. I believe them. I've heard from others who have privately confirmed the toxicity of some of the names they mentioned. I can tell you this...the church is not a building, it's the collective group of the body of believers (worldwide) and this wonderful couple is certainly part of that body. As am I. I hope you are too.
Not saying specifically UPCI. I am saying walking away from the teachings of the Apostolic.
Familiar happening at many churches 😮😢❤
As a former UPCI preacher/pastor, I can relate to these folks in a big way, but the Biblical doctrine is rock solid.
There is no way that the doctrine of UPC is biblical. It’s a doctrine that has developed over the past 100 years. Statements like “the name of the Father and Holy Ghost is Jesus” , “you must speak in tongues to be saved” and the Magic Holy Hair belief. So much heresy is found in Oneness churches.
Madam, don't you think you can address these issues without putting UPC as the object of your attacks. Remember due to the fallen nature of mankind theres no church or ministry that is perfect. And as a believer you are missing that point. Instead of you dedicating your precious time to winning souls into God's kingdom or teaching the word of God to strength the faith of fellow Christians you have chosen to be irresponsible by constantly attacking the place where you actually met the Lord except that you don't like how they treated you.
You are equally as guilty as they are on treating others. As it is its you now who is playing holier than thou. To be honest with you , you have not forgiven them for how they treated you as a youth. You feel if they didn't influence the break up with your first boy friend your marital life would have been better than the experiences you have had in this regard.
Please forgive them and if you think what you went through needs to be shared its honourable or more responsible if you removed the name of UPC from your discussions.
My sister you may never know has bad as you think UPC is, God is still using the ministers in there to take people out of the hands of the devil and for that God is happy with them.
The other noble action you can take is write to the UPC leadership about all these issues you raise publicly. What you are currently doing is washing dirty linen in the public. We may be in different churches but before God we belong to one family, the church of Jesus Christ.
I live in Zambia and because of my plans to travel to Canada I was checking for pentecostal churches I can fellowship with and UPC came up and also your videos came up. I listen to wonderful sermons by UPC pastors then came your attacks on the church and it has really made me indifferent about UPC. Any God knows our ways.
Sadly, due to the legalistic nature of the UPC teachings and the controlling hierarchy in many of their churches...they have left a wake of casualties in their path. I just happen to be one of them. I cannot address these issues without naming them because my goal is to make my videos easy to find for ex UPC people who are struggling with their hurt. Sharing these stories helps them realize they aren't alone and that there is healing on the other side of their pain. I can tell you there is a dynamic in their churches that would not be easily discerned in a preaching video.
As to why not just go to them directly, the couple in this video tried and they wouldn't hear them. I know many others who also have tried and they are not heard. It's a waste of time and often the things you say are used against you.
You've made several false accusations against me in your comment. I think you're misunderstanding why I left the UPC. I left over doctrinal disagreement, not hurt feelings. The boyfriend I mentioned was not UPC and they had nothing to do with that (plus I was just a kid at the time). The story I shared happened a long time ago, it's been over 17 years since I left. I have no hard feelings, just a tender heart toward people who have been hurt by that group as well.
If you're looking for Pentecostal churches to fellowship with in Canada, you could try the ACOP or the PAOC. They are both Pentecostal organizations that would be a bit more balanced.
I might also add that while some of the UPC ministers are "taking people out of the hands of the devil" there are also MANY who are driving sincere people away from God. That does not make God happy. They also tend to cause people to put their faith in their own works instead of solely on the finished work of the cross. If you look at my channel, it is not just focused on the UPC. I do address topics with scripture to clarify some of the false teachings that exist in the church today. That is hopefully a component in strengthening the faith of fellow believers.
As someone who is damaged, broken and hurting, reeling from the unwarranted attacks, and alone picking up the pieces from loss of friends and purpose, as well as divorce and a broken home, mostly due to the damage created by experiences in the UPCI, I respectfully ask you to consider moving along. I myself, am finding it a blessing to have come across this video and support group as I learn to grieve and heal. There are good people in and out of the UPCI, as there is in other denominations and religions. This just happens to be OUR experience and OUR journey. Its finally good to know I am not alone as I thought I once was. Feel free to believe as you wish and allow for us to support one another and draw closer to Christ through freedom. I believe that souls are being one through this support group and these videos because clearly the UPCI is lacking in the ability to keep the sheep that were under their care. (Born and raised in UPCI going on 43 years)
This is not an attack on the church but support for those who've been attacked BY the UPCI. Until you have walked in my shoes, please take YOUR judgements elsewhere.
What's in the dark will come into light. But oh how Satan would love for these things to stay in the dark!
Deliverance comes thru exposure. Exposure comes by shedding LIGHT.
Bitterness will consume you.
I pray you will be released from the demons that are torturing you.
The UPC is striving to seek and to save those who are lost.
Why is your ministry devoted to hate for the UPC?
Christians should be trying to save the lost. Your ministry seems to be devoted to division.
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.
No "bitterness", no "demons torturing" us...nothing that dramatic, just stories of impropriety and spiritually abusive treatment that appear to make you uncomfortable. I wish the actual abuse made UPC'ers as uncomfortable as they are when someone speaks out about it. It would make my job a lot easier.
I have no doubt the UPC is seeking to save the "lost"...which to many of them is practically every Christian who doesn't think exactly like them on every point. That's the bulk of Christianity.
I mentioned in another response to you that I have no hatred towards the UPC, only compassion towards those they've abused and misled.
My ministry is not devoted to division, but if you have a group that pollutes the gospel of grace and abuses their people, offering them no assurance of salvation...then I guess I would be forced to divide myself from them.
Jesus was correct, will be hated for his name sake.
Love is key !
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
The Truth! I knew Brian and Esther Henry very well during there short time in Southern WI. I was on the ministry staff, with a fair amount of responsibility for 5 - 7 years. I had to leave the organization (for a season) because of the Henrys. There was not operation of gifts or healings, etc.., while the Henrys were there, and they always had to blame others. The district was left with an empty building, about to foreclose, because the membership went from ~150 to 8 People on my last visit there. I feel sad that they would blame others, and burn the bridges they worked hard, over the years to establish. Please don't let or use their fabricated story turn you from an intimate relationship with the Lord, Jesus. I felt in my heart that the Henry's drifted from their first love, they started doing some unusual and unscriptural things. They are very likable and somewhat credible, however they are sadly mistaken by what actually happened. I'm glad they were punished (rejoice in your trials), and think they are doing themselves serious danger to blame upper administration and try to hurt an organization that is responsible for their finding and coming to the Truth. I shouldn't have to name all the great men of God affiliated with the UPCI that have been used mightily over the decades by Jesus to lead masses to salvation. The Henry's tried to break away from the organization, in many, many ways. We must all get on our knees to repent for Pride of life ( watch the video ), Lust of the eyes and flesh, which are working with the forces of darkness, which is against the mighty works of the Lord. Thank you for reading my heartfelt explanation.
For some added context to this comment/commenter...when it didn't appear under the video quickly enough to suit him, he emailed me to accuse me of deleting it and to tell me that I am a "very manipulative person who does not love Jesus", and that I am "responsible for helping satan and his fallen angels", that I will be cursed, and will "live a very short life, likely cancerous" if I don't "change my wicked ways". He also mentioned how many people have died for speaking out against "men/women of God" (implying I would be one of those people). He then signed it "Representing Jesus Christ"...which I can assure you, he most certainly does not.
Same old game, same old tactics (trying to silence by instilling fear). Some things never change in these groups. It gets tiresome.
@@ResponsibleFaith Ah, yes, they learned UPC scare tactics well. Fear permeates the teachings in the UPC, so it's no wonder that their ministers and members resort to this. What a sad way to believe, that God is going to strike dead someone simply because their comment didn't appear quickly enough on a TH-cam channel. What a twisted and distorted view of God they have.
Actually, it speaks VERY WELL of the Henry's that they did not put on a Pentecostal show or do fake healings to grow or maintain their church size. Were they too busy teaching God's actual Word? Would you shame them for that? Who has the problem? Search your heart, Doug Roska.
God entered into my body, like a body. my same size. I am the worlds only holy ghost filled, born again, christian. a billion go to church and seek what only one has.
That was not God.