@@stevencarlson5348 I think the time element is way overblown, yes games have a lot of turns, but turns are very quick since the board is constantly kept clean. Both player have a huge incentive to play fast, so with experienced player who know when to concede games are not that long at all. Yesterday we manage to play 2 BO5 (8 games in total) in about 3h.
I played against a Thrawn deck with virtually no units. Actually milled me to death, and just used super laser blast and other things to keep me out of the game. I'm not a good player, but had to applauded the patient play and different approach to the game
Yes Thrawn can do that too, I don't like it's as much for 2 reasons: -The heal from Iden is better than the tap ability of thrawn most of the time. -Red gives you much better tools for a control deck than yellow.
Have been playing a similar deck vs. Boba Green. Entenched on Hero Boba is just an extremely defeating play for opponents who have never encountered it. Most it completely tilts the first time they see it. It's just great to see a deck that is very strong into Boba Green.
Love it, entrenched is such a sleeper removal card. I've been toying with it in my midrange (wampa) krennic and it seems excellent in terms of versatility.
I tried something similar with iden yellow and nearly no units, yellow for all the tricks and superlaser to get in the mid/endgame and than with vigilance to finish it. Will try red to, great video!
I think the time element is way overblown, yes games have a lot of turns, but turns are very quick since the board is constantly kept clean. Both player have a huge incentive to play fast, so with experienced player who know when to concede games are not that long at all. Yesterday we manage to play 2 BO5 (8 games in total) in about 3h witht his deck.
@@Thorrk_THT : 8 games in 3 hours is 22.5 minutes per game. Unless you win all your matches 2-0 you're not completing a best of 3 match in the allotted time even at the pace you thought is fairly quick.
Were those ties because both players had a win? Versus say, this control deck wins game 1 and time runs out in game 2. Those standings would not be a tie.
Vidéo très intéressante. Merci pour toutes ces explications. Je serais curieux de voir une vidéo de toi sur un deck Palpatine. Rouge ou bleu ? Merci pour ton travail.
Merci une fois de plus pour cette vidéo ! Quelles sont les chances de ton deck han de battre ce deck ? Dans quel tier placerais tu ce deck par rapport à la méta ? Merci
Merci à toi! J'ai pas beaucoup testé, mais je pense que mon Han a un bon Match up, Han est très résilient contre control, home one sur bright hope pioche une carte, U-wing. Très peu de carte morte. Très difficile de répondre à toutes les menaces. Et la ramp inconditionnel alors que Boba ne peut ramp qu'avec ressupply. Je le mettrai Tier 2 mais c'est peut être plus.
Tried it but it's no great, first of all the discard effect simply make the oppoenent discard the dead removal anyways. It's also quite difficult to deal damage to the opponent to trigger the thing since we barely play any unit.
From the rule book section 6.2.0.F Playing a Card consists of the following 5 steps in order, explained in detail below: -Declare intent, -Check restrictions, -Determine cost(s), -Pay cost(s) -Put card into play/discard. -After playing the card, resolve any “When Played” abilities on the card and any other abilities that triggered while playing and/or resolving the card So when the effect resolves the card is already in your discard pile, which means it's a legal target to put the card at the bottom of your deck.
Can you explain restock more please? You state you can use it on itself? Meaning you can play it and then put it automatically on the bottom of your deck. Is this clarified anywhere? Thank you so much for your videos! I think they are very very good. I have been playing your ramp Vader. Boba yellow and Steroid Luke. Very fun decks to play
Thanks for your kind words. From the rule book section 6.2.0.F Playing a Card consists of the following 5 steps in order, explained in detail below: -Declare intent, -Check restrictions, -Determine cost(s), -Pay cost(s) -Put card into play/discard. -After playing the card, resolve any “When Played” abilities on the card and any other abilities that triggered while playing and/or resolving the card So when the effect resolves the card is already in your discard pile, which means it's a legal target to put the card at the bottom of your deck.
I am not sure. I think it's quite a bit weaker against aggro compared to the tarditional green control decks, but I think it's a bit better against Boba. but it really depends on the version.
This is a silly question but I have to ask, when they say "Choose two" for Vigilance, you can only choose one of each correct? For example, I can't give a shield to two units
Not enough force unit to enable it. Discarding one card that you opponent choose is really bad because the whole point of the deck it's to make opponent's removal useless because you don't play any unit, therefore your opponent has plenty of useless card in hand that they will be more than willing to discard.
Did you consider I Am Your Father? I think its very good in Blue Thrawn, but thay doesnt have Open Fire like this. But I find most Boba Players will give you 3 cards, which helps find SLB.
simply play more cards that you think would work well depending on your meta. Search your feeling to seach for vigilance for the control mirror is a good idea.
Vader Green is tough , because you are typically not fast enough. Sabine has a good match up against it. Mono Thrawn is just a bad deck in general imo :( The way game usually play out with Sabine: Aggro puts ton of pressure and manage to put the deck in the neighborhood of 20 to 25 damages. Control stabilize and manage to heal up a bit, but because of Sabine constant ping it struggle to put itself completely out of danger and obviously put very little pressure on the opponent. This gives aggro an infinite amount of times to assemble the perfect hand and kill you in one turn with Wolfe followed by 2 and sometimes 3 FCBI.
I think that this deck just gives opponents with experience and good sideboards way too much time to draw their ideal combos or just repeatedly swarm it to death (think Sabine or Leia aggro). If you are playing in an open deck list tourney and know it's a threat then discard-centric stuff would just destroy it as it wants to hold onto key cards like Superlaser Blast for a very long time--think Smoke and Cinders, Spark of Rebellion, etc. Alternatively, if you're playing a good midrange Boba you can adjust it to be more aggro and throw in your own removal. Also Restock kind of messes with this deck's primary premise, as do cards like Home One that 'resurrect' cards from the discard pile. While it's an interesting idea, I think it's just too slow--not to mention very difficult to pilot. It also doesn't seem to have any real answers to direct base damage like K2SO or Sabine's ping ability.
It's quite different from regular Iden/krennic Green I think it's better against control (especially against control who don't play vigilance and restock), but worse against aggro.
See, I feel the exact opposite. Great vs aggro, but very weak to green control. The moment relentless hits the board it's GG, and their ramp will almost guarantee you are behind.
@@jccouture13 I agree relentless is strong but far from GG, simply jam a random cheap event which you have plenty of, and finish the job with a vanquish. If you don't have that yet: buy some time with an entrench, Avenger is also a hard counter. Besides keep in mind relentless does not see much play right now and when it does it's as 1 or a 2 of in the sideboard. Ramp is good but not amazing, it does not accelerate you to the point where you can't keep up with your opponent's threats, even with ramp, control is still very slow. Btw you will only be able to ramp with resupply not SLT.
A restless/emperor's legion sideboard in green Iden cooks this matchup. They will out value you in units and you cant remove them having to play 2 events to do anything against relentless
Relentless is strong but far from the end of the world, you can simply throw a cheap card under the bus and then play vanquish it just requires 2 cards instead of one. If you don't have vanquish you can simply entrench it to buy you some time. Also we have avenger to hard counter it Not only that, relentless currently doesn't see much play and when it does it's as a one or 2 off in your sideboard.
J'ai vraiment l'impression que Iden Rouge se fait de plus en plus sa place dans les discussions actuellement par rapport à sa version avec ECL, le deckbuilding a fait son chemin et maintenant je trouve même les 2 versions à peu près égales, dépendant du build. Mais pour un deck qui peut jouer vert avec ECL c'est assez rare pour être souligné
Why would you SB restock? If you are up against control odds are it's going to be only one game anyway so shouldn't you just main board those because if it's just one game and they play restock and you don't that's pretty much GG right? It is very common to see vigilance in control main board now. It only makes sense the next evolution is restock In main board to secure the control MU.
There is definitely an argument to main board restock if you're in a meta where a lot of people play control with vigilance. Always keep in mind that a control deck is never set in stone and should always be adapted. With that being said I think it's a bit exaggerated to think that most control games end at 1-0.
@@Thorrk_THT If this deck becomes the main control deck. And it's the mirror. I believe it will be one game and it will come down to whoever has more restock or who gets unlucky and gets their 2 to 3 restock milled. I agree that Iden Green/Krennic can play out a full 3 games if neither mb vigilance or restock, but I think we are getting into the territory where control is pushing into one game with the amount of recycle/mill available.
@@Thorrk_THTI agree, it's a great counter for the meta right now. Following the pattern of other control TCG decks they start out by teching vs everything and then move vs teaching vs itself. Either way great analysis of the deck, not a lot of people go into card by card breakdown so the extra time spent on that is appreciated.
Yes, I was aslo surprised at first but yes mill 100% works as a wincon and is what makes this deck possible. More often than not when game 1 goes very long, it's because your opponent made the mistake to not concede when he should have, it actually advantages you because if you can't finish game 2 you win the match. If your opponent is smart and knows when to concede, games aren't that long, because yes you play a lot of turns, but turns are very short.
I’ve seen this over a month ago with a few locals running similar. It wins 98 percent of the time. If you’re a decent player - Magic background you’ll win most if not all games. I don’t even bother with the second game. If my sole purpose is to win and play annoying stuff then I’d bring a iden deck.
That's absolutely not my experience at all ^^. If that was even close to be the case you would have seen this deck wreck tournament left and right and it has not been the case at all.
Ok I know we already argued a lot about it but this deck is a fucking cancer. I play in the environement this deck was created and he's not the only one playing variations of that in Paris and it's just ruining the game for me. You are saying it's a tier 2 but you're saying at the same time it's killing everything except Sabine sometimes. We don't have any Sabine here cause it's the most boring deck to play. I don't wanna play a boring deck to counter a Cancer deck. When I play my regular control deck it's a hour game boringfest that just disgusts me from the game. I find this kind of deck VERY problematic for the meta and the health of the game and personally if it's getting worse and more people playing that, it's a really good reason to stop the game until they ban Superlaser blast. We have as control players already a lot of great control cards. Superlaser and entranched are problematic cards. We play for fun not just to get bored in weekly events and even in tournament it's gonna be a cancer.
Yes but last time we talked about it I didn't play against Keau. :) If you play Boba you will have a decent MU against this deck. Yesterday I went 3-2 vs Keau with Boba green. and there were fun games in my opinion. I need to test more but Han might have decent MU against it. It's subjective I guess, but I have no problem playing against deck like this, I think games can be very boring if you don't know when to concede but if you do it's totally fine. I don't think this deck breaks the meta in any way, is just another valid option. I understand that your meta is filled with deck like that (which is never fun regardless of the deck) but that's not at all representative of how the meta is as a whole. Superlaser blast is nowhere near close bannable material. Keep in mind that a card/deck that you hate is probably someones 's else favorite card/deck, so why should your preference be considered a priority? Cards should be banned on the basis of power level or something that is almost universally considered not fun and oppressive... that's not the case at all here. Wrath effect/baord wipe , are an important part of any card game, and are essential to control archetypes, that's why you see them in every card game. Among the different boardwipes I have seen across many card games, SLB is one of the worst. Are you suggesting that control should not exist? I also don't think that Aggro is boring to play in SWU, (wanna see what boring aggro looks like, try play burn in MTG) If you don't want to play the deck that counters what dominate your meta , it's a "you" problem not a "meta" problem.
Banning an 8 cost wrath effect seems fruitless. It already costs 8, so there's a large downside. Every TCG has these typed of things, and they need to be adapted to. Just wait for hand destruction or resource destruction!
@@Thorrk_THT yeah its the only solution against it. Per see, I dont find Superlaser Blast too powerfull. Just, it allows decks that only rely on it and don't play the game. Of course I'm ok with control I play one myself and you don't need Superlaser Blast in it, it can be a solution for some things but it's just another card. But right now this kind of deck is ruining the fun of the game. And yeah, we can always have more boring deck to play, but you have to admit that Sabine is the less skilled deck to play. And we have to disagree again that to beat a deck in less than one hour you need to play Sabine or Boba green (aka the best and stable and expensive deck), for me, it's a problem. As I've said that ruins the fun of the "normal" meta control. And that ruins all midrange decks which already struggle. Try a Chirrut against, I guarantee you it's not fun, and the deck is pretty consistent against everything else even Boba. The thing is a deck that dont want to play the game is a problem for me. And when you are playing control, you cant just say game over, one game is just playing 1 hour and I've seen game finished on restock. WTF? You really think it's intended by designers? I work in game design on eurogames and I played all LCG FFG games (was a "big" player on netrunner and conquest) and this kind of cards is just trash to fill out a pool of cards.
@@MeepleonFire "yeah its the only solution against it. " No, it's not "Just, it allows decks that only rely on it and don't play the game." They do play the game , unit less control decks have been a thing since in TCGs since 1994, they just play the game differently and personably I think that's awesome, it's called gameplay diversity. You remind me of people who whine about about snipers in FPS games. "And we have to disagree again that to beat a deck in less than one hour you need to play Sabine or Boba green (aka the best and stable and expensive deck), for me, it's a problem. As I've said that ruins the fun of the "normal" meta control. And that ruins all midrange decks which already struggle. Try a Chirrut against, I guarantee you it's not fun, and the deck is pretty consistent against everything else even Boba. The thing is a deck that dont want to play the game is a problem for me. " To beat a strong deck you need to play other strong decks, welcome to the reality of competitive play, if you're not willing to play those decks then it's a you problem not a meta problem. You cannot complain that you can't beat a deck and then being completely unwilling to change decks or adapt your paystyle, you want the meta to cater to your preference? Beside I am sure there are other decks that can do well against it, you just got to find them. For example I think Han green should do quite well against this deck. "And when you are playing control, you cant just say game over, one game is just playing 1 hour and I've seen game finished on restock. WTF? You really think it's intended by designers? " I agree that the control vs control situation can be a little bit silly but tbh control mirror is kind of weird in all games. Nobody is forcing you to engage in that kind of gameplay if you don't want to, PLAY SOMETHING ELSE than control and you won't have to deal with the control mirror. Blaming the game for things you can fix by yourself and you prefer to ask for bans instead of trying to find solutions ... typical French mentality tbh. Trust me you will find more joy in the game by trying to find solutions rather than complain about them. :)
Best deck tech on youtube. thank you for your work and videos!
Like the color boarder to explain why the cards are used vs different aspects!
Awesome deck, this is the stuff I like to see from the community 👏🏻 it's just rough when you get a tight time limit..
Exactly. The time constraint makes this basically unplayable imo
@@stevencarlson5348 I think the time element is way overblown, yes games have a lot of turns, but turns are very quick since the board is constantly kept clean. Both player have a huge incentive to play fast, so with experienced player who know when to concede games are not that long at all.
Yesterday we manage to play 2 BO5 (8 games in total) in about 3h.
I played against a Thrawn deck with virtually no units. Actually milled me to death, and just used super laser blast and other things to keep me out of the game.
I'm not a good player, but had to applauded the patient play and different approach to the game
Yes Thrawn can do that too, I don't like it's as much for 2 reasons:
-The heal from Iden is better than the tap ability of thrawn most of the time.
-Red gives you much better tools for a control deck than yellow.
@@Thorrk_THTyeah I agree in my testing thrawn wasn’t that strong . Hopefully in a few months 😊
@thorrk Nice video! What would be cool is a serie of video of "How To beat...." for each type of dekcs ^^
Have been playing a similar deck vs. Boba Green. Entenched on Hero Boba is just an extremely defeating play for opponents who have never encountered it. Most it completely tilts the first time they see it. It's just great to see a deck that is very strong into Boba Green.
Love it, entrenched is such a sleeper removal card. I've been toying with it in my midrange (wampa) krennic and it seems excellent in terms of versatility.
entrenched played on the opponent's deployed leader is just annoying AF - my daughter has put that on my Sabine Wren more times than I care to tell
Great deck tech, as always!
I tried something similar with iden yellow and nearly no units, yellow for all the tricks and superlaser to get in the mid/endgame and than with vigilance to finish it. Will try red to, great video!
How does this deck win given the time limit for Bo3? Last tourney we had ended up with most people having 3 ties (auto losses).
I think the time element is way overblown, yes games have a lot of turns, but turns are very quick since the board is constantly kept clean. Both player have a huge incentive to play fast, so with experienced player who know when to concede games are not that long at all.
Yesterday we manage to play 2 BO5 (8 games in total) in about 3h witht his deck.
@@Thorrk_THT : 8 games in 3 hours is 22.5 minutes per game. Unless you win all your matches 2-0 you're not completing a best of 3 match in the allotted time even at the pace you thought is fairly quick.
And worse, if you play a slow player, either thoughtful, new, or stalling, you'll never finish 3 games on time.
Were those ties because both players had a win? Versus say, this control deck wins game 1 and time runs out in game 2. Those standings would not be a tie.
Vidéo très intéressante. Merci pour toutes ces explications. Je serais curieux de voir une vidéo de toi sur un deck Palpatine. Rouge ou bleu ? Merci pour ton travail.
Oui j'y travail!
For the Control Sideboard you're taking out 6 cards but only adding in 5.
Merci une fois de plus pour cette vidéo ! Quelles sont les chances de ton deck han de battre ce deck ? Dans quel tier placerais tu ce deck par rapport à la méta ? Merci
Merci à toi!
J'ai pas beaucoup testé, mais je pense que mon Han a un bon Match up, Han est très résilient contre control, home one sur bright hope pioche une carte, U-wing. Très peu de carte morte. Très difficile de répondre à toutes les menaces. Et la ramp inconditionnel alors que Boba ne peut ramp qu'avec ressupply.
Je le mettrai Tier 2 mais c'est peut être plus.
What about Forced Surrender? wouldnt be that a decent addition into the overall milling gameplan?
Tried it but it's no great, first of all the discard effect simply make the oppoenent discard the dead removal anyways. It's also quite difficult to deal damage to the opponent to trigger the thing since we barely play any unit.
@@Thorrk_THT follow up question if you dont mind. What abou "Im your father" seems quite nice and fitting to the gameplan
@@nikboxan9016 this one I haven't tried, I think it could work.
Do you know what rule indicates an event is in graveyard before resolution?
From the rule book section 6.2.0.F
Playing a Card consists of the following 5 steps in order, explained in detail below:
-Declare intent,
-Check restrictions,
-Determine cost(s),
-Pay cost(s)
-Put card into play/discard.
-After playing the card, resolve any “When Played” abilities on the card and any other abilities that triggered while playing and/or resolving the card
So when the effect resolves the card is already in your discard pile, which means it's a legal target to put the card at the bottom of your deck.
Can you explain restock more please? You state you can use it on itself? Meaning you can play it and then put it automatically on the bottom of your deck. Is this clarified anywhere? Thank you so much for your videos! I think they are very very good. I have been playing your ramp Vader. Boba yellow and Steroid Luke. Very fun decks to play
Thanks for your kind words.
From the rule book section 6.2.0.F
Playing a Card consists of the following 5 steps in order, explained in detail below:
-Declare intent,
-Check restrictions,
-Determine cost(s),
-Pay cost(s)
-Put card into play/discard.
-After playing the card, resolve any “When Played” abilities on the card and any other abilities that triggered while playing and/or resolving the card
So when the effect resolves the card is already in your discard pile, which means it's a legal target to put the card at the bottom of your deck.
Would you say this is currently the best control deck?
I am not sure. I think it's quite a bit weaker against aggro compared to the tarditional green control decks, but I think it's a bit better against Boba. but it really depends on the version.
Nice deck. If they scoop you win.
This is a silly question but I have to ask, when they say "Choose two" for Vigilance, you can only choose one of each correct? For example, I can't give a shield to two units
Yes correct can't choose twice the same option.
@@Thorrk_THT Thank you so much. I am just starting and I just wanted to make sure on that
Why no Force Throw ? It could help the mill and can also be a good removal
Not enough force unit to enable it. Discarding one card that you opponent choose is really bad because the whole point of the deck it's to make opponent's removal useless because you don't play any unit, therefore your opponent has plenty of useless card in hand that they will be more than willing to discard.
Hand discard doesn't help mill in unlimited
Did you consider I Am Your Father? I think its very good in Blue Thrawn, but thay doesnt have Open Fire like this. But I find most Boba Players will give you 3 cards, which helps find SLB.
No i didn't, definitely worth a try!
Which decks do you think are strong against this deck?
As I said in the video Aggro, especially Sabine.
Why do you name it that though?
A dominatrix is a female in control, it's a reference to that
What's a good Avenger replacement?
simply play more cards that you think would work well depending on your meta. Search your feeling to seach for vigilance for the control mirror is a good idea.
This deck is so dirty I’m gonna play it.
How has it been going?
For those of us playing "fair decks", how does one play against a deck like this? ( I play Vader Green, Sabine Green, Mono Thrawn, etc. )
Vader Green is tough , because you are typically not fast enough. Sabine has a good match up against it. Mono Thrawn is just a bad deck in general imo :(
The way game usually play out with Sabine:
Aggro puts ton of pressure and manage to put the deck in the neighborhood of 20 to 25 damages.
Control stabilize and manage to heal up a bit, but because of Sabine constant ping it struggle to put itself completely out of danger and obviously put very little pressure on the opponent.
This gives aggro an infinite amount of times to assemble the perfect hand and kill you in one turn with Wolfe followed by 2 and sometimes 3 FCBI.
I think that this deck just gives opponents with experience and good sideboards way too much time to draw their ideal combos or just repeatedly swarm it to death (think Sabine or Leia aggro). If you are playing in an open deck list tourney and know it's a threat then discard-centric stuff would just destroy it as it wants to hold onto key cards like Superlaser Blast for a very long time--think Smoke and Cinders, Spark of Rebellion, etc. Alternatively, if you're playing a good midrange Boba you can adjust it to be more aggro and throw in your own removal. Also Restock kind of messes with this deck's primary premise, as do cards like Home One that 'resurrect' cards from the discard pile. While it's an interesting idea, I think it's just too slow--not to mention very difficult to pilot. It also doesn't seem to have any real answers to direct base damage like K2SO or Sabine's ping ability.
Do you think this is better than Green Iden?
It's quite different from regular Iden/krennic Green
I think it's better against control (especially against control who don't play vigilance and restock), but worse against aggro.
See, I feel the exact opposite. Great vs aggro, but very weak to green control. The moment relentless hits the board it's GG, and their ramp will almost guarantee you are behind.
@@jccouture13 I agree relentless is strong but far from GG, simply jam a random cheap event which you have plenty of, and finish the job with a vanquish. If you don't have that yet: buy some time with an entrench, Avenger is also a hard counter. Besides keep in mind relentless does not see much play right now and when it does it's as 1 or a 2 of in the sideboard.
Ramp is good but not amazing, it does not accelerate you to the point where you can't keep up with your opponent's threats, even with ramp, control is still very slow. Btw you will only be able to ramp with resupply not SLT.
@@jccouture13 I use Iden Green and I don’t like Relentless. It’s too niche and Avenger is better
A restless/emperor's legion sideboard in green Iden cooks this matchup. They will out value you in units and you cant remove them having to play 2 events to do anything against relentless
Why is there no Search your feelings?
It's an option for the sideboard for control MU, for this version I decided to go for an additional copy of restock.
And then you meet Relentles..
Relentless is strong but far from the end of the world, you can simply throw a cheap card under the bus and then play vanquish it just requires 2 cards instead of one. If you don't have vanquish you can simply entrench it to buy you some time. Also we have avenger to hard counter it
Not only that, relentless currently doesn't see much play and when it does it's as a one or 2 off in your sideboard.
J'ai vraiment l'impression que Iden Rouge se fait de plus en plus sa place dans les discussions actuellement par rapport à sa version avec ECL, le deckbuilding a fait son chemin et maintenant je trouve même les 2 versions à peu près égales, dépendant du build. Mais pour un deck qui peut jouer vert avec ECL c'est assez rare pour être souligné
Ce sont deux decks très différent
Why cloud city wing guard and not Cell Block
Maximize the number of Blue cards for Childsen.
@@Thorrk_THT Wouldnt deathtrooper be a better interative alternative?
@@joaocarlosmatos they are very different but both good options
Why would you SB restock? If you are up against control odds are it's going to be only one game anyway so shouldn't you just main board those because if it's just one game and they play restock and you don't that's pretty much GG right? It is very common to see vigilance in control main board now. It only makes sense the next evolution is restock In main board to secure the control MU.
There is definitely an argument to main board restock if you're in a meta where a lot of people play control with vigilance. Always keep in mind that a control deck is never set in stone and should always be adapted.
With that being said I think it's a bit exaggerated to think that most control games end at 1-0.
@@Thorrk_THT If this deck becomes the main control deck. And it's the mirror. I believe it will be one game and it will come down to whoever has more restock or who gets unlucky and gets their 2 to 3 restock milled.
I agree that Iden Green/Krennic can play out a full 3 games if neither mb vigilance or restock, but I think we are getting into the territory where control is pushing into one game with the amount of recycle/mill available.
@@chanceswafford9164 Maybe we will see. The deck has been built taking into account the current state of the game. But for sure you need to adapt it.
@@Thorrk_THTI agree, it's a great counter for the meta right now. Following the pattern of other control TCG decks they start out by teching vs everything and then move vs teaching vs itself. Either way great analysis of the deck, not a lot of people go into card by card breakdown so the extra time spent on that is appreciated.
Why no Search your feelings?
It's an option for the sideboard for control MU, for this version I decided to go for an additional copy of restock.
Is the mill mechanic already worth to play it? I feel like there is too few cards and you would end up not finishing the game in time
Yes, I was aslo surprised at first but yes mill 100% works as a wincon and is what makes this deck possible.
More often than not when game 1 goes very long, it's because your opponent made the mistake to not concede when he should have, it actually advantages you because if you can't finish game 2 you win the match.
If your opponent is smart and knows when to concede, games aren't that long, because yes you play a lot of turns, but turns are very short.
I’ve seen this over a month ago with a few locals running similar. It wins 98 percent of the time. If you’re a decent player - Magic background you’ll win most if not all games. I don’t even bother with the second game. If my sole purpose is to win and play annoying stuff then I’d bring a iden deck.
That's absolutely not my experience at all ^^. If that was even close to be the case you would have seen this deck wreck tournament left and right and it has not been the case at all.
What a snoozer... Playing this thing in all day tournament is true masochist vibes lol. Brain will be aching.
Removal that stalls the game and mills… I’m sure he is so fun to play against at his locals lmao
If you know when to concede it's not so bad. But yeah for new players it's not great I agree.
Ok I know we already argued a lot about it but this deck is a fucking cancer. I play in the environement this deck was created and he's not the only one playing variations of that in Paris and it's just ruining the game for me. You are saying it's a tier 2 but you're saying at the same time it's killing everything except Sabine sometimes. We don't have any Sabine here cause it's the most boring deck to play. I don't wanna play a boring deck to counter a Cancer deck. When I play my regular control deck it's a hour game boringfest that just disgusts me from the game.
I find this kind of deck VERY problematic for the meta and the health of the game and personally if it's getting worse and more people playing that, it's a really good reason to stop the game until they ban Superlaser blast. We have as control players already a lot of great control cards. Superlaser and entranched are problematic cards. We play for fun not just to get bored in weekly events and even in tournament it's gonna be a cancer.
Yes but last time we talked about it I didn't play against Keau. :)
If you play Boba you will have a decent MU against this deck. Yesterday I went 3-2 vs Keau with Boba green. and there were fun games in my opinion. I need to test more but Han might have decent MU against it.
It's subjective I guess, but I have no problem playing against deck like this, I think games can be very boring if you don't know when to concede but if you do it's totally fine.
I don't think this deck breaks the meta in any way, is just another valid option. I understand that your meta is filled with deck like that (which is never fun regardless of the deck) but that's not at all representative of how the meta is as a whole.
Superlaser blast is nowhere near close bannable material. Keep in mind that a card/deck that you hate is probably someones 's else favorite card/deck, so why should your preference be considered a priority?
Cards should be banned on the basis of power level or something that is almost universally considered not fun and oppressive... that's not the case at all here. Wrath effect/baord wipe , are an important part of any card game, and are essential to control archetypes, that's why you see them in every card game. Among the different boardwipes I have seen across many card games, SLB is one of the worst. Are you suggesting that control should not exist?
I also don't think that Aggro is boring to play in SWU, (wanna see what boring aggro looks like, try play burn in MTG) If you don't want to play the deck that counters what dominate your meta , it's a "you" problem not a "meta" problem.
Banning an 8 cost wrath effect seems fruitless. It already costs 8, so there's a large downside. Every TCG has these typed of things, and they need to be adapted to. Just wait for hand destruction or resource destruction!
@@jessewallace3805 Already a thing: spark of rebellion!
@@Thorrk_THT yeah its the only solution against it. Per see, I dont find Superlaser Blast too powerfull. Just, it allows decks that only rely on it and don't play the game. Of course I'm ok with control I play one myself and you don't need Superlaser Blast in it, it can be a solution for some things but it's just another card. But right now this kind of deck is ruining the fun of the game.
And yeah, we can always have more boring deck to play, but you have to admit that Sabine is the less skilled deck to play.
And we have to disagree again that to beat a deck in less than one hour you need to play Sabine or Boba green (aka the best and stable and expensive deck), for me, it's a problem. As I've said that ruins the fun of the "normal" meta control. And that ruins all midrange decks which already struggle. Try a Chirrut against, I guarantee you it's not fun, and the deck is pretty consistent against everything else even Boba. The thing is a deck that dont want to play the game is a problem for me. And when you are playing control, you cant just say game over, one game is just playing 1 hour and I've seen game finished on restock. WTF? You really think it's intended by designers?
I work in game design on eurogames and I played all LCG FFG games (was a "big" player on netrunner and conquest) and this kind of cards is just trash to fill out a pool of cards.
@@MeepleonFire
"yeah its the only solution against it. "
No, it's not
"Just, it allows decks that only rely on it and don't play the game."
They do play the game , unit less control decks have been a thing since in TCGs since 1994, they just play the game differently and personably I think that's awesome, it's called gameplay diversity. You remind me of people who whine about about snipers in FPS games.
"And we have to disagree again that to beat a deck in less than one hour you need to play Sabine or Boba green (aka the best and stable and expensive deck), for me, it's a problem. As I've said that ruins the fun of the "normal" meta control. And that ruins all midrange decks which already struggle. Try a Chirrut against, I guarantee you it's not fun, and the deck is pretty consistent against everything else even Boba. The thing is a deck that dont want to play the game is a problem for me. "
To beat a strong deck you need to play other strong decks, welcome to the reality of competitive play, if you're not willing to play those decks then it's a you problem not a meta problem. You cannot complain that you can't beat a deck and then being completely unwilling to change decks or adapt your paystyle, you want the meta to cater to your preference? Beside I am sure there are other decks that can do well against it, you just got to find them. For example I think Han green should do quite well against this deck.
"And when you are playing control, you cant just say game over, one game is just playing 1 hour and I've seen game finished on restock. WTF? You really think it's intended by designers? "
I agree that the control vs control situation can be a little bit silly but tbh control mirror is kind of weird in all games. Nobody is forcing you to engage in that kind of gameplay if you don't want to, PLAY SOMETHING ELSE than control and you won't have to deal with the control mirror. Blaming the game for things you can fix by yourself and you prefer to ask for bans instead of trying to find solutions ... typical French mentality tbh.
Trust me you will find more joy in the game by trying to find solutions rather than complain about them. :)