Duckin' the Fog, Product Review 10 the Tormek 2000 wetstone grinder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Howdy TH-camrs!
well it seems i goofed on the first edition of this vido so i had re-upload it after the mistake was fixed. my apologies to those of you who have seen the first edition already and are watching this again.
so, woodworkers and metal workers pay attention alike. if you have tools and tooling that require a cool grind, this is the machine for you. personally i give this one ten thumbs up as it is a really well built unit. as with any tool there are some things i take issue with but they are really minor and are a real easy fix.
technical data
drive train:
diameter of motor drive shaft 11mm
diameter of the drive wheel 168mm
reduction ratio 15:1
main shaft diameter 16mm
stub shaft diameter 12mm with M12 right hand thread
stub shaft length strop wheel side 36mm
stub shaft length grinding wheel side 68mm
retainer pin distance to shaft shoulder 4.5mm to center of hole
diameter retainer pin 4mm
total shaft length 267mm
distance between shoulders 163mm
motor
Crompton Parkinson Ltd
single phase 240v 250watts
continuous duty, capacitor start
tool rest mounts:
12mm bore in the mounts
90mm distance between the posts
M12 thread for micro adjustment
M6 thread for the set set screws
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I have a Grizzly wet grinder for 10 years or so. It has served me well. The thing is all in the jigs. I have knocked off most of the Tormek jigs, especially the gizmo that allows you to ser the angle of attack. Without the jigs I do not think any wet grinder is usable. The Grizzly jigs are awful. Tormek jigs are great but expensive.
thank you for that piece of info Juan, that's the kind of stuff that needs to be in forums like this so folks out there can get a better idea of what to expect and make course corrections accordingly
there are a few of the tormek jigs i would like to make, the one is gonna be really tricky to machine as the hole that slips over guide rod has a taper to it so the jig doesn't rotate after tightening the set screw.
I picked up a #2000 for ten bucks that works fine but the grinding wheel is "firmly" attached to the shaft. You stated there is a plastic liner between the shaft and wheel. Does that mean I can support the wheel and use strong force to drive the shaft through the plastic liner without harming the wheel. I would hate to destroy an otherwise good wheel but do want the luxury of swapping out the waterstone wheel with a diamond wheel from time to time.
Many thanks - good review!
yes, you can press the shaft out if you have access to a hydraulic press.
if you don't, then you can sandwich the wheel between 4 pieces of 3/4" plywood or OSB and gently tap the shaft out.
have a second person put turning pressure on the shaft as it's being tapped out. use 4 regular shop clamps to hold the sandwich together with 2 pieces on each side of the wheel and a hole in the center on both sides to facilitate driving the shaft out.
if you have to keep the shaft, you should put some copper paste anti-seize compound on the shaft before re-assembly to prevent this same thing from happening again. the plastic sleeve is supposed to prevent the wheel from rusting onto the shaft. if the wheel is not removed frequently it will invariably rust the shaft and seize up due to the water soaked up by the grinding wheel. you should use a brass or bronze drift punch to drive the shaft out as to not damage the threads of the shaft since it is only mild steel.
i replaced the original shaft made from mild steel with one made from stainless to prevent rusting and the seizing issue like what you're experiencing. and also replaced the shaft bearings with bronze ones instead of the plastic ones it came with. i made the bearings and shaft myself to cut down on the costs. in my video "zerks&wheels in the skinny groove" i go thru the process of how to make the bearings and cut the retainer groove for the cir-clip by using a chunk of an old saw blade
hope that helps, if you have any other questions by all means fire away and i'll try to get you going in the right direction as best as i can
cheers!
mike
just what i wanted to see...the guts of a tormek 2000...many thanks amigo!
I made the change and went with CBN wheels and diamond hones for my sharpening,. No more do I have to dress a wheel of be concerned with over heating. Of course you can misuse any grinding machine and create problems but in the long run the CBN wheels and hones will pay off as a cheaper more cost effective method for sharpening.
To each their own.
how fast do the CBN and diamond wheels work compared to the regular wheels they supply with the machine? and what kind of finish do they leave on the tools?
i have some carbide drill bits that i'll be sharpening on this thing later on so the diamond wheel will certainly be more than a consideration for sharpening those bits.
have you done any HSS on your wheels yet?
Mine are mounted on a low speed grinder (8 inch) and rpm is 1750. Each wheel weighs a little over 8 pounds. One wheel is 80 grit and the other one is 180 grit. I have a CBN card hone as well that is 360 grit on one side and 600 grit on the opposite side so I can get a nice polished surface. The wheels are made from steel and balanced from the factory and you have to buy the correct bushing to fit your grinder. I got mine from D-Way tools and you can view from their website or call and talk to Dave (the owner) for more information. These wheels work best on HSS but can be used on carbide, but not recommended especially for long term use. Used properly they will last with like new performance for many years. No dressing of the wheels and zero risk of the wheel cracking of coming apart. I even removed the guards from the grinder and a magnet is all that is required for clean up the grinding material.
I feel this will change the way we sharpen our HSS cutting tools.
great info, thanks for sharing that detailed information. it's not everyday we can get access to the experiences of others to make our tools work better.
Incidentally D-Way Tools does carry a 10 inch CBN wheel made for the Tormek grinders. That may be of interest for you too!
awsome!
HI I have similar problem, the grinding wheel is stuck; I did as you, hitting with a small hammer and a piece of wood and it will not release.. any advise. thank
there are two ways to go:
one - if you have access to a press, put the wheel on the press, only allowing the shaft to go thru the hole. then slowly press the shaft out.
two - similarly place the wheel on a hard surface that supports the retaining washer on the shaft but allows the shaft to go thru and then gently tap the shaft out.
if you have a hole big enough to allow the washer to go thru as well, make sure you have a piece of plywood or rubber matting underneath the wheel. if the wheel is in contact with a hard surface such as steel, the shock from the impact of the hammer will shatter the wheel or at the very least crack it. be sure to allow the wheel to completely settle before striking the next blow.
as you could see in the video, i laid mine on my lap and used a chunk of oak as a driver and then the wooden mallet to drive out the shaft. it took quite a bit of force to drive it out. when the shaft stub is flush with the surface of the wheel, don't try to hit it again. you will then hit the wheel and crack it. use a brass drift punch or wooden dowel rod if you have to continue to drive the shaft out.
you can use WD-40 to lube the shaft. it won't hurt the wheel. it might make an oil sheen in the water tub later, but that isn't anything that will harm or impair the performance of the machine.
if you have to re-use the old shaft. polish it up with scotch-brite pads and then give it a good coating of grease to prevent new corrosion from forming. the plastic sleeve in the grinding wheel doesn't allow the moisture that creeps in to evaporate. that is how the shaft rusts and whole system seizes from the rust
Hi, I bought a used tormek 4 and once I apply pressure, the grinding wheel stalls; again I remove the blade that I am sharpening the grinding continues to spin. can you advise me on what is the problem. thanks
it sounds like the main bearings may be worn out so when you go to apply any kind of pressure to the stone it stalls. it could also be that the shaft is slightly rusty.
give the main bearings some grease or oil so the shaft can spin more freely.
it may also be that you may need to change the main bearings. while that does require taking the machine apart, as you could see in the video it is really easy to do so. the plastic mains are also fairly cheap. the bronze bearings i put in mine would cost 60eur plus shipping and do require a bit of break in time with lots of oil
the motor drives the main shaft over a friction wheel to the strop wheel. if that friction surface is oily or somehow too slick, cleaning it off with a degreaser should help that problem too.
additionally the motor is on a swivel and since the machine is exposed to moisture, it may be that the swivel is corroded and doesn't allow the motor to swivel properly.
you can always add a spring or wedge to push the motor into the strop wheel if the slip is too great even after taking corrective measures.
now it may also be that you are applying a bit too much pressure when grinding. these machines aren't real power houses motor wise and so they are relatively easy to stall out even when all things are their optimum. the stone doesn't require very much pressure to cut, so keep that in mind if you are still having the same problem after you have taken any or all corrective measures.
hope that helps, and if you have any other questions just fire away
Thanks, where can I buy the 2 plastic or metal bearing.
@@davidruiz5383 good question. after doing a bit of digging in the tormek website, it seems you would have to find a reseller in your area and try to get a set of bearings thru them. i couldn't find any links for spare parts for any of the machines except for stainless steel shaft kits, and they don't tell you what they cost.
i made my own for a few euro.. the most expensive thing was the chunk of bronze. and since i haven't used the machine that much since the retrofit, whenever i fire it up, the bearings have to be oiled generously as they aren't yet broke in and lock up without oil as the reamer (an H7 fit) i used was probably a bit too tight of a tolerance. perhaps a reamer with H8 tolerance would have been a better choice.
stainless likes to get grabby when it starts to get warm, so just a heads up if you make your own bearings and shaft.
making my own set, set me back about 110eur all in total for a 15cm chunk of tin-bronze, H7 fit reamer and 50cm of ground and polished H7 fit stainless shaft and stainless M12 nut and washer. i have no idea what tormek is charging for their parts, but if the price for their jigs is any kind of indicator, my guess is they won't come cheap.
in the meantime you may be able to rehab your old shaft by taking it out of the machine and polishing it up with a scotchbrite pad on a lathe. scotchbrite works really well polishing up shafting material. put a dab of grease in the bearings when you put it back together and see how it runs. you should be able to get a little bit more run time out of the old parts if they're not too terribly worn out
I don't see how the poster concluded that information about the Tormek is not readily available. Tormek has an excellent support department (support@tormek.se). (No charge for support.) You can register your Tormek on the tormek.com website (go to my Tormek). Even vintage Tormeks with several owners can and should be registered. No warranty remains for these old timers, however, by registering you have online or download access to the latest edition to the handbook, a valuable reference. Tormek also sponsors an active forum, a source of much information.
Tormek has a policy of non obsolescence. All the latest jigs will fit your 2000 model. You can still get parts. Incidentally, Tormek switched to stainless steel shafts in 2006. I suspect the rust on your shaft may have come from ignoring the recommended annual regreasing of the bushings.
Longer planer blades can be ground and then slid. Sixteen inch blades are not a problem.
The motor should not slip. If this happens there is a simple mtce. procedure covered in the manual.
Your video has many statements not based on facts or experience. Do not forget that there are many Tormeks of your vintage still in regular service with no alteration other than basic routine maintenance.
Ken
hi Ken,
when i was researching the machines technical data, the tormek website didn't didn't give any of the measurements i was looking for eg. the 90mm distance between centers of the tool post mounts etc. that was extremely frustrating.
since the machine is no longer supported, registering it with tormek isn't really a pressing issue. but i do see your point about getting the support of a manual etc for someone who has never used a machine like this and it does make good sense.
the machine was purchased off of Ebay classified ads (ab-)used and didn't come with tool posts (hence the need for the measurements) or the water trough for the grinding wheel. while this is one of the best grinders on the market and well worth the money i paid for it, i can't see spending the same amount for two tool posts as what i paid for the machine itself(250euro). the jigs are insanely expensive as well. i built four tool posts for less than a quarter of the price of one new one from tormek. and i picked up a piece of bronze and made a new set of main bearings for less than a third of the price of the plastic bearings. same thing on the stainless steel arbor shaft...
longer planer knives have to be ground in a single sweep across the face of the stone. otherwise you are liable to get a step or curve in the cut pattern. also they need to be ground in pairs as to maintain balance and cutting plane. the tormek jigs don't allow for either method to be used. if one knife is off then you end up with chatter or other funky problems in your lumber.... i've been in the business long enough to have seen what i'm talking about here on multiple occasions
the folks at tormek aimed this machine at the larger portion of semi-pro users in the statistical bell curve. i would be what would be considered an extreme outlier in the professional spectrum. i chose this machine because it still falls into the category of professional grade tooling and can be modified to meet specific needs which machines by other manufacturers cannot. even tormeks newer machines are not as adaptable as this one.
cheers
mike
HolzMichel Hi, Mike. Thank you for your response. My first thought was, why not measure the outside distance between the two posts and subtract 12 mm, the diameter (and twice the radius). Then I realized that you did not have a support bar.....not so easy without it. :(
Information can be easy to gather, presuming you know where to look. I get lost with many topics, however, having used a Tormek and been a Tormek forum member since 2009, I do know where to look for Tormek information. I have not used the planer jig, so my knowledge there is limited to what is in the handbook.
I have often encountered complaints that the Tormek is expensive or overpriced. Granted that it is not cheap. However, neither is a Baldor grinder, the quality equivalent in a high speed dry grinder. I don't hear complaints about the price of a Baldor. I don't think it is fair to compare the cost of Tormek products with the cost of cheap knock offs. The T8 comes with an ironclad seven year warranty, even for commercial or educational use. Even the T4 comes with a seven year warranty for home use and a two year warranty for commercial or educational use. When the T4 first came out, I personally grilled a factory rep and a rep from the US importer aboutt the warranty. What if my motor burned out after six and a half years? They would install a new motor free of charge, including free shipping both ways in about a week. No questions about 50% duty. I was impressed. I am still impressed.
You say your model is no longer supported. Not so. It is no longer under warranty, however, you can readily purchase parts and/or have Tormek repair. You may not like the cost, however, you will have a first class repIr job.
The posts you mention (the Universal Support Bar in Tormekese) are made of stainless steel. The thread on the one post is a 12mm Acme thread. True, a skilled machinist/welder could duplicate this. As an average user, I could certainly make this part, nor would my local machine shop for the cost of a new bar.
The nylon bushings are long lasting. I asked a friend who was a "weekend warrior" sharpening a hundred knives a week at the farmers market how often he replaced his bushings. He said about every three grinding wheels. A full year was a long grinding wheel life for him. That's almost three years of commercial duty from a set of inexpensive, easily changed nylon bushings. I don't see any shame in that.
I hope you have the opportunity to use your Tormek extensively. As you get to know it, I believe your appreciation will grow.
Ken
(Incidentally, I am the moderator of the Tormek forum.)
Hi Ken,
good dialog we got going here :)
people who buy the Baldor grinders are in a position where money is essentially no object. i have one of their big ones that is configured as a buffer for polishing metal parts that i inherited from my dad. the thing will rip an arm off if a guy is a little careless.
the thing i don't like about dry grinding is the loss of temper along the cutting edge of the tool being sharpened. which is precisely where it's needed. a wet grind doesn't have that problem. the wood chisels i have (Kirschen and Marples) are some of the best on the market and burning them up on a dry wheel isn't an option. also the grit on a dry stone is too coarse and you end up spending more time honing with a dry grind than you do on a wet grind.
tormek didn't think of everything when they made this machine but that's ok, i can fill in the voids wherever i have to. it's all in the natural evolution of things. the platform as it is, is one of the best on the market. i owned grizzly machines in the past and still have one of their wood lathes and i can tell you they do require a higher skill level to get them to perform the way they were intended to. a guy has to really know his stuff and be able to get into the guts of things to make them work.
while the nylon bearings are adequate, and will do a good job, the ones that were in this machine were a little worn and so instead of buying new ones i made a set of bronze ones. they should outlive me if all goes well.
i have another video that shows them being made: th-cam.com/video/YySD-ovE6s0/w-d-xo.html
as i will be sharpening large diameter spiral drill bits (from 1/2 to 2" ) there will be a lot of pressure on the bearings and so they need to be able to take the load. the nylon bearings will create a minute amount of chatter on the cutting face of the drill and in turn create real problems when the drill goes into metal. so you can see there is more than one reason why i'm going this route.
if you respond to this post, could you put in a link to the tormek forum? i would in turn post it in the description above so those folks following along this thread or reading the description can get to it easier. from the sounds of it there should be some really good info for everyone using these machines in there.
cheers
mike
HolzMichel Hi, Mike. You make some good points. While I am obviously a Tormek fan, I have never bern a "Tormek über alles" fan.
I discourage new buyers from buying every jig they think they might possibly use in the future. I mostly did that. I still have a couple jigs that I have never used. More importantly, I have some jigs which were the state of the art when new, but have been eclipsed by Tormek's newer jigs. An example of this is the SVD-185 gouge jig. This was one superior jig. It was so good that a rival sharpening machine company paid Tormek royalties to use it. It was the best, until Tormek launched the SVD-186. The 186 is so improved that a couple turners on the forum agreed with my review when I stated that it was worth replacing an existing 185 with the 186.
The machines have improved, also. The "cast aluminum" housing you mentioned is actually cast and precision machined zinc. The zinc radiates heat, thus solving the 50% duty overheating problem of the T3. I have no idea how the 300% increase in accuracy with the new machined zinc top is determined. The one piece machined top is definitely more accurate. The old steel frame on the SuperGrind and T7 is definitely easier to modify. For the average user, I think the newer housing is a better choice.
I am definitely not opposed to marching to one's own drum with the Tormek. I was using nontraditional wheels long before Tormek condoned them. A Norton 3X 46 grit wheel on a T4 is definitely a turbo charged machine, and cool, too, when used wet. D-Way steel CBN wheels (especially when used wet with Honerite Gold) are formidable on a Tormek, as are Tormek's new diamond wheels.
You should join the forum. We have a number of tinkers who have expanded the scope of the Tormek. Ideas develop from sharing.
Ken
Mike, A good link to the Tormek forum would be either www.tormek.com/forum or through the tormek website www.tormek.com
Ken