Recreating Nirvana's "Heart Shaped Box" Drum Sound | What's That Sound? EP32
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Engineered by Steve Albini and played by Dave Grohl, the drums on Nirvana's "Heart Shaped Box" are at once natural, bombastic, weird, huge and unlike anything happening at the time they were recorded. Noam pulled out a bunch of microphones, put them in some weird places and Jessica learned the tune. How did they do?
Recorded by Noam Wallenberg at Rax Trax Recording.
raxtrax.com
noamwallenberg.com
#nirvana #heartshapedbox #stevealbini #davegrohl #drums #recording
Ok so you did a pretty good job! But I'm a certified Albini nerd, so forgive me for being obnoxious but I'm able to point to some things you did differently:
-I don't think he was using the lav mic at the time
-He doesn't eq the kick in but he usually adds a subharmonic synth to add low end to the kick (or he does a weird feedback loop if he doesn't have a subharmonic synth a hand)
-That overhead technique is recent for him. At the time he probably used a normal spaced pair positioning.
-He talked about using some old Lomo condensers for the overheads. Maybe he was using them in conjunction with the ribbons, but if he used a spaced pair, maybe there were no ribbons in the overheads.
-They recorded the drums in the studio's kitchen because they felt the live room had too much of a controlled sound.
-Dave Grohl would play REALLY HARD and with the butt of the drum sticks, so you would get a really punchy sound without needing too much compression to poke through
Butt yeah, nitpicking aside I think the main difference I'm feeling is that the rooms are a bit too quiet on your version. Cheers!
As a fellow Albini nerd, I'm glad one of our ranks is here to set the record straight 😌
Tho I will say! I do think Steve's current methods sound superior to the methods that gave us the In Utero sound, so at the very least, I'm glad this video exists as a way of demonstrating Steve's present day techniques
Another Albini disciple here. One slight correction is that they only recorded the drums in the kitchen for the fast, punky songs such as Tourette’s and Very Ape. Most of the drums were done in the big live room
It’s sounds like you used Albini’s more up to date drum mic techniques, I don’t think he was using the Lav mic back then. Either way, kinda interesting, I guess this is what heart shaped box would have sounded like if it was recorded by Albini today.
Forever in debt to your priceless advice!
Can we just appreciate the concerted effort they made to respect Albini's choices and the sound of the band? Even with the discrepansies between what he did then vs. how he might do it now, they did their homework. PROPS GUYS. :) The choice of the Schoeps V4U's for the blumlein pair in front was an especially inspired choice. Nice going.
These videos are absolute gold. Putting the emphasis where it matters most; the source. The drummer, the drums and mics/placement.
Can we get some appreciation for the drummer? She always kills it!
I don't think she 'beats the piss out of the drums' as Dave Grohl once described what his job was in Nirvana. She's good but not enough grunge emotion., imho.
Jenna's great! There are MAYBE a FEW people (men or women) that can play with the sheer velocity and power that Dave Grohl plays with (really only Atom Willard and Eloy Casagrande, and Connor Dennis come to mind 🤷♂️
The gang is off the mark on this one, uncharacteristically. Sounds Good, as always - but without the same Ambience )esp. on kick) or tone as HSB, which features the classic Albini Drum Sound (probably at its all-time best due to Pachyderm Studio's great room) spruced up with a bit of pop polish by mix engineer Scott Litt, whose contribution to In Utero's singles was excellent (and probably necessary). Albini famously uses no compression on drums (except sometimes on what he calls "the front of the bass drum").
Also, Pachyderm isn't "iconic," unless everyone's familiar with its Image.
Somehow "iconic," the most overused - and MISused - word on TH-cam has been widely mistaken to mean simply "widely known," or "instantly recognizable," (or in this case, apparently just "famous"), etc. But it means, specifically, that someone or something's Image is famous (Icon, in the original Greek, Means image); and the word can no more apply to Sounds (the most common way Iconic is misused) than it can apply to Scents, Flavors, Ideas, Emotions, Bodily Sensations, etc.
Due to the TH-cam Feedback Loop, misuse of Iconic lately has spiraled out of control. Indeed, to the point where a misuser would no doubt describe the matter as an iconic Linguistic Error.
Airbag by Radiohead. Nobody knows wtf is going on with that, haha! I'm gonna request it on every video from now on.
If they would have taken those high hats and switch them out for a pair of 15 inch newbies that s*** would sound spot on. They really nailed the bass and snare drum sounds.
May I ask how you panned the room mics? I wonder where they sit in the mix related to the overheads and the "additional overheads", the Schoeps. Thanks a lot!
How about the one of “Hot for Teacher” by Van Halen. So much drums going on in just the intro.
thanks for you videos
Tom Petty Breakdown please
If putting a mic on the floor eliminates reflections from the floor (10:35), then why is an omni mic helpful for eliminating the proximity effect... from floor reflections (11:05)?
Not the proximity effect, but the room reflections. If you’re picking up reflections from the floor a foot or two away and the walls several feet away it might sound phasey, that’s what they’re worried about, I think the explanation was just not very clear.
@@godofspacetime333 I mean, thanks for attempt, but they're talking about using omni mics specifically to eliminate proximity effect at 11:05, once again. If what they're really worried about is reflections from walls not proximity effect, how would using omni mics eliminate those reflections?
@@wychwoodmusic okay so watching it again yeah, the two effects he’s talking about kind of get garbled up in the explanation. Putting the mic on the floor eliminates the reflections from the floor, but low end tends to travel along the floor and the mic is closer to the direct source than the reflections from the walls so the proximity effect still comes into play if you were using other mics. So basically using an omnidirectional mic eliminates any proximity effect AND putting it on the floor eliminates phase issues caused by floor reflections hitting it before wall reflections.
Why a 451b over the more era specific 451eb?
Can you guys please do Damaged Goods by Gang Of Four?🥺🥺🙏🏽🙏🏽
anythuing from london calling
Nice try, but it's not there yet
i think its a good sound, but it doesnt remind me of in utero. im no expert, but to me, its all in the room sound.
why didnt you just hire steve to come in? missed opportunity.
Steve was known to be a difficult guy…
Should be scared. This is way off
It’s a little off. HSB sounds a bit fatter and in a bigger room. Still cool to watch.
Would have been nice if they played the guitar riff correctly, wtf
Definitely could’ve been done worse!
I don’t want to say, “awesome job!” But, I also don’t want to say too much negativity about it, either.
Then, those embarrassing guitars came in…. Ruined everything. Just disgusting, to not come close to playing a three chord Nirvana song correctly, is pitiful.
But, maybe it’s a TH-cam thing.
A good, & standing tall, B graded episode.
I feel good about that.
Just, get your Josephson Albini Signature Grade Mics, or don’t bother next time.
You’ve GOTTA have the Josephson’s. Hahahahaha! $1500 Tom Mics…. Yeah, right! Hahahaha!
Love you guys!
You do get that they can't use the correct chords for copyright reasons???
That poor girl must have been exhausted by the end of this video .😬
Slipknot's first album drum sound is really interesting. It sounds so natural, almost garagey, and yet works perfectly in the mix for that kind of music.
It’s crazy dry and in your face! One of my favorite drum sounds. It’s got a lot more midrange than modern drum sounds.
Inidigo ranch
Soundgarden Superunknown Drums please! Black Hole Sun or The Day I Tried to Live, even My Wave would be good
That was a great leap from B.m.f. Sound blew me away when first released
My favourite drum sounds/production, would love to see this
Yeah!! my favorites grunge drums sound of the 90's:
1. Superunknown
2. In Utero
3. Vs.
I really love these videos. This is a tough one to nail. Ive listened to this record more than any other. Dave grohls performance is 90% of the sound.
Massive, massive Albini fan. If you're trying to replicate a recorded + mixed sound of a recording, then it seems honest to note that Scott Litt mixed this. How is this not mentioned?
Not even close, Albini's drum sound is all about huge room. Snare also needs to be tuned lower without so much attack and high mids.
Wrong snare mic also, the 451 works well with tape but with digital it just sounds wrong. Saturiting it won't help either.
Steve albini famously used 12 sound goodisers on the drum tracks for inutero. He had an early cracked demo version of fl studio.
😂😂😂
'Dave, I've finally found something that will make you sound decent. It's called Fruity Loops, and it's the best thing ever, trust me on this one.'
- Steve Albini
“hey Dave, just step on the kick pedal one good time, i’ll just click them in with my new baddass ergonomic mouse.
I love the Steve Albini drum sound. The bottom tom mics and the room mics make a huge difference!
I'm shocked at how much this doesn't sound anything like the In Utero drums.
How the lowend is generated and at which point in the process is also crucial. That kick just sounds like a trigger.
The drum sound on Love and Happiness by Al Green
This is a really killer drum sound. Something I would be going for in some situations. (and I would love a sample of that snare sound :-) ) It doesn't sound very close to the In Utero sound to me. That sound is much more roomy, almost ALL room maybe? This is much punchier and especially the snare drum is much fatter. I'd be surprised if Dave Grohl used a head as thick as this with as much muffling but I could be wrong. But I actually like THIS sound better :-) Really well played too.
Tbh, Albini's records don't sound very good. It's not hard to accidentally make something that sounds better. His whole aesthetic is "capture the sound of the band in the room." But that's not actually what makes a record sound good. I understand the philosophy behind it, but In Utero sounds noticeably worse than other famous grunge albums, even if it does fit Nirvana's spirit as a band.
I remember I read someone who mentioned something about between 15 and 25 miliseconds on room to get his signature sound, I've tried and it does work.
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I'm actually impressed with the guitar sound. It is much closer to the original than the drum sound
Can't say the same for the tuning....
Yeah but it’s like inverted into something that’s almost but not quite exactly unlike “Heart Shaped Box.” It’s “Cardioid Shaped Container.”😂
@@VapnFagan The tuning is fine. The notes being played on the other hand, are copyright-free chaos.
Please do the king gizzard dual drummer sound!
Please do Ty Segalls Manipulator drum sound!
Levee from the new Wilco album. Or anything from Cousin. Great drum sound.
LOVE the sound of In Utero! for me the song where the drums really stand out is Scentless Apprentice.
Here are some ideas for new episodes:
1. Soundgarden -Spoonman or Black Hole sun
2. Led Zeppelin - When the Levee Breaks
3. Pearl Jam - Go!
4. Alice In Chains - No Excuses
If you wanna know about Superunknown, Produce Like a Pro has a great video with the record's producer already!
I thinks we need Black Hole Sun sound…
Riff is played wrong , is it for copyright reasons
Probably.
Yeah, they've been doing this in the more recent videos on the series
Anything off PJ Harvey's Rid of Me album, please.
The overheads are great. All of the meat in mono from the front pair and the stereo 'air' coming from the rear
You guys usually get pretty close. This time, not so much.
I have read that Steve Albini would use an expander on the overhead mics to tame the snare a little bit. Also, he used the insert on the snare drum mic channel to duck the lavalier mic on the batter side of the kick. The polar pattern on the stereo pair in front of the kick would be in Blumlein or Mid-Side configuration., rather than XY. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and thanks for the video.
Man those STC’s are KRISPY, no hi boost on those?
Killer drum sound but still nothing like the OG
rest in peace steve albini 🙏
20 ms is too short. Albini uses 30ms.
Don't forget the drum sticks that dave used which were big. 2b sticks are needed to achieve that sound.
The drum sound from Hozier's new song "Eat Your Young" as well as "De Selby (Part 2)" would be really fun to watch, they have so much power, but because of the more minimalist beats Rory Doyle plays on them, the unique tone the engineers got from the drums really stands out!
Also, the drum sound on his song "Nobody" from his last album is incredibly crunchy and would be amazing to see recreated!
Do Jimmy Eat World's drum sound for Clarity next!
Thanx. I really enjoyed this episode. And yes I‘m a huge Albini fan, and maybe he did or did not exactly any of this techniques or mics on in utero. But I think you transpose the idea of t(his) drum recordings very well, Thanx again…
That was probably the best one yet. So good.. especially the snare. Did you EQ the drums and also did you gate the toms and or any other close mics?
JOY DIVISION PLEASE PLEASE JOY DIVISION PLEASE
what do I like to hear next. D-A-D soulbender from the helpyourselfish
Noam’s sweatpants strike again!
Next, Lee "Scratch" Perry, please 🍭
Nirvana’s best album.
There is too much muffling on the bass drum.
My current favorite TH-cam series. Thanks so much!
Sounds delicious.
Do some Yves Tumor, really cool drum sounds on his records
Holy shit i forgot about this series, it’s still going!
that sounds pretty good
Nice
That sounds real nice
The sound is Steve Albini, a big room, old school compressors, and friggin Dave Grohl. The technique in this video is a bit overkill, Alibini never used a mic for the batter side of the kick.
Mr Albini has definitely used a Countryman isomax lav mic on batter side before.
He said so in a couple of videos.
No idea if it was used on In Utero but that’s a different question
Come on surely he must have. I have the stems of very ape so ill be having a look later…
I'm curious about the legal status of the almost the same guitar parts. Does it really make a legal difference that you changed a note or chord or two, even though it is still very recognizably supposed to be the song in the title? Does it keep the record company or publishers from taking the video down?
Most of that stuff is automated, meaning an algorithm is searching videos for content matches; if the original recording is used, it will match it based on timing, pitch, etc. By shifting the pitch and or re-recording the parts (so they aren't an exact match) it usually bypasses the content match. Strangely enough, even pulling the vocals out of a tune via a plugin seems to get around that algorithm in some cases.
Melodies are subject to copyright law. If you use a different melody (which they did here), it's not copyright infringement. You can't copyright chords.
ask Ed Sheeran
Clearly it works, or they wouldn't bother doing it. It's pretty ridiculous that they have to do it in the first place. They wouldn't have to if TH-cam wasn't completely corrupt and would stand up for content creators.
Yeah this is not at all like what the drums on In Utero sounds like
You guys had it easy. Try recreating that guitar tone without copying what's his name in Seattle that just did it.
Doesn't sound anything like it... First thing you're missing is Dave Grohl.
This sounds as much like Albini's drum mix as this song sound like Heart Shape Box. It's a happy version.
Not even close. Do you guys listened to In Utero?
She is a true beauty
The original record sounds as if there is some sort of distressor/decapitator on the snare, at very least during the louder portions of the tune. Was that effect even attempted? Because it sounds like the snare is getting a bit lost in the guitars during those loud parts. Needs something a bit crunchy on the snare there. Great kick sound, though. Room sound was really nice, too.
It's called Dave Grohl my dude. The guy played really large drum sizes, used the butt of the drum stick and had an ungodly amount of power in his playing. Albini doesn't compress things much. Usually he compresses the inside kick to keep the low end under control, the overheads to slightly duck the snare sound and sometimes the snare to add a bit of attack (although I suspect he didn't need to in this case). Maybe the tape might've saturated a bit during the whole process, but even that I don't know, because Albini is know for liking his recordings as transparent as possible. It's probably just good tuning, good mic placement and a god tier performance!
I get and knew all of that information about Grohl and Albini.
I was mainly addressing the video, where the snare was getting lost a bit during the louder portions of the tune. The snare doesn’t disappear nearly as much on the Nirvana recording as it does in this video.
wouldn't have hurt to do it in the correct key, cmon bruh
To avoid copyright !
@@leethium6982 meh. Can still tune down on it.
Sounds fantastic