What if your boss calls you over the phone telling you he’s giving you a raise and you while thanking him you ask “this might come across as rude to ask for more considering the nature of your generous call right now. (And you ask for more)” What are your thoughts on the over the phone situation when they call you? Thanks for everything, Mr. Voss and the whole black Swan team.
The way you phrased your response/question to the phone-call does come across as rude and ungrateful. Perhaps asking a probing question first, then pivot into a range-figure: 1. That's great to hear! I'm curious though, how are you evaluating my performance and how exactly did you arrive at that number? 2. Would you consider this number at the lower end or higher end of the range of the value I bring to the company, in your opinion? 3. Well it's great to quantify all this, however here's (x) where I think I can really bring in more value to your company. Given that, I do believe I'm worth the upper bounds of the range of (y) figure. The best strategy, however, is the quantify your own contribution of value to the company, then ask for a % cut in dollar terms of that. "If I could bring in 20% more revenue to your company, can I have 5% of that cut?"
I think the current issue is that companies pigeon hole employees into positions that prevent them from generating value that they would then be able to claim in a performance review. For whatever reason, companies hire for skills well beyond the actual requirements of the position. Although anecdotal, this has been the experience of me and my coworkers; our full skillsets aren't even required for the roles that we fill as we're basically asked to use the very basics of our professions. I'm talking asking a statistician to take averages in excel and nothing else. So when we have our performance reviews, there's nothing we can point to to say, "here's why I deserve more" as everyone and anyone is taking averages in excel. There's nothing to differentiate off of. Thus, the modern day game of switching jobs by lying and/or exaggerating the current role on a resume and, ironically, getting more at the next company.
You might consider applying for jobs every 6 months and interviewing. This will give you a more accurate idea of what you're worth, and you can use it as leverage to negotiate for higher pay. If they don't satisfy your request, then quit and go work at one of your competitors.
@EyeDocOps stay stuck? I moved around and used skills from the black swan group as well as the book Negotiation Genius to double my salary in less than a year. I was just commenting on most people's experience at jobs. It's in an employers interest to setup a job in such a way that the most people can do it. This larger supply of possible employees drives down the wage each of them can individually compete for.
Sounds like one of the best ways to cause a team of potential employers to feel heard, is to add value by applying what they've openly shared during the interview, so the most reserved member(s) feel safe sharing the information they reserve only for those who listen well enough to indicate aptitude to genuinely absorb, apply, and pass on this value, thus encouraging another Black Swan to emerge...
@Blackswanltd1 Great tips. Are you against sharing your thoughts on this: What about emotions during such a conversation? What should be done when negative emotions arise between negotiating parties at the table? Let's say we're talking, and then suddenly emotions arise, causing a slight conflict. What can be done to defuse the situation? In your experience, is it a good approach to look more often at the person in whom emotions have arisen, as if nothing had happened? This will trick the reptilian brain in an ethical way and the other side will perceive the situation as if nothing had happened. They did not notice it, do not retaliate against me (even though I behaved badly), emotions decrease, logic goes up, and conversations continue.
Yeah listen everyone - this is not a very good lesson in real-world, higher level pay negotiations. Everyone knows it's a two way street. Everyone ones there's market rate and the company's "ability to pay". But what we dont have here is any decent rebuttals or techniques for getting the Financial Controller - the beancounters who hold the watertight reigns on budgets and who have every line manager in their thrall - to actually see the bigger picture of staff retention, team culture, individual productivity when people are given meaningful and deserved pay rises. This clip just lacks a lot of substance. Two way street is just entry level stuff. So let's have a clip that encourages people and teaches people how to negotiate salaries once they've been in a company for a while. This will be relevant for 90% of workers. Otherwise you just contribute to this culture where the only way to get a raise is by shifting jobs.
It's less about negotiating wages and more about negotiating moves. Aim to move laterally and hopefully a little upward every 2-3 years. If you can't or haven't, Aim to change companies every 3-5 years. Not moving will prevent you from getting more than low-single-digit-percentage raises every year. Movements within will get you 10-20% bumps and moves externally can get you 20-30% or even more. In each role, aim to support your direct line leadership and the business as a whole. Then let the chips fall where they may. Be indispensable but not irreplaceable and never get too attached.
What if your boss calls you over the phone telling you he’s giving you a raise and you while thanking him you ask “this might come across as rude to ask for more considering the nature of your generous call right now. (And you ask for more)” What are your thoughts on the over the phone situation when they call you? Thanks for everything, Mr. Voss and the whole black Swan team.
The way you phrased your response/question to the phone-call does come across as rude and ungrateful. Perhaps asking a probing question first, then pivot into a range-figure:
1. That's great to hear! I'm curious though, how are you evaluating my performance and how exactly did you arrive at that number?
2. Would you consider this number at the lower end or higher end of the range of the value I bring to the company, in your opinion?
3. Well it's great to quantify all this, however here's (x) where I think I can really bring in more value to your company. Given that, I do believe I'm worth the upper bounds of the range of (y) figure.
The best strategy, however, is the quantify your own contribution of value to the company, then ask for a % cut in dollar terms of that. "If I could bring in 20% more revenue to your company, can I have 5% of that cut?"
It sounds like our training would be a great fit for you. Go to the quiz on our website to discover which kind is right for you: bit.ly/3N9MhWc
I think the current issue is that companies pigeon hole employees into positions that prevent them from generating value that they would then be able to claim in a performance review. For whatever reason, companies hire for skills well beyond the actual requirements of the position. Although anecdotal, this has been the experience of me and my coworkers; our full skillsets aren't even required for the roles that we fill as we're basically asked to use the very basics of our professions. I'm talking asking a statistician to take averages in excel and nothing else. So when we have our performance reviews, there's nothing we can point to to say, "here's why I deserve more" as everyone and anyone is taking averages in excel. There's nothing to differentiate off of. Thus, the modern day game of switching jobs by lying and/or exaggerating the current role on a resume and, ironically, getting more at the next company.
You might consider applying for jobs every 6 months and interviewing. This will give you a more accurate idea of what you're worth, and you can use it as leverage to negotiate for higher pay. If they don't satisfy your request, then quit and go work at one of your competitors.
It sounds like our training would be a great fit for you. Go to the quiz on our website to discover which kind is right for you: bit.ly/3N9MhWc
@EyeDocOps stay stuck? I moved around and used skills from the black swan group as well as the book Negotiation Genius to double my salary in less than a year. I was just commenting on most people's experience at jobs. It's in an employers interest to setup a job in such a way that the most people can do it. This larger supply of possible employees drives down the wage each of them can individually compete for.
Thanks Chris, this is so good, glad I found your channel.
Sounds like one of the best ways to cause a team of potential employers to feel heard, is to add value by applying what they've openly shared during the interview, so the most reserved member(s) feel safe sharing the information they reserve only for those who listen well enough to indicate aptitude to genuinely absorb, apply, and pass on this value, thus encouraging another Black Swan to emerge...
Yes, you must demonstrate understanding.
@@NegotiationMastery Seems like most people aren't engaging after you respond.. here's to interrupting that pattern.
Another gem BlackSwan, still waiting on that major announcement
I have been on the fence for long. This made up my mind.
Sounds like I have a lot to learn here...
I'm gonna sound crazy for saying this:
I feel heard, Chris. Thank you.
Hi there! Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any more questions. Keep up the learning! 👍
So what is that question to ask every time that you talk about at the 1:15 mark?
Is it a ridiculous idea for Black Swan team to take clips from movies or tv and analyse negotiation techniques 🤔
No
That's right
😂
Insightful advice. Thank you so much!
You'd get a raise for talking abd talking without saying anything
THE KEY is yes or no will this work crush my soul? If no, then look at the range of pay.
@Blackswanltd1 Great tips. Are you against sharing your thoughts on this: What about emotions during such a conversation?
What should be done when negative emotions arise between negotiating parties at the table? Let's say we're talking, and then suddenly emotions arise, causing a slight conflict. What can be done to defuse the situation? In your experience, is it a good approach to look more often at the person in whom emotions have arisen, as if nothing had happened? This will trick the reptilian brain in an ethical way and the other side will perceive the situation as if nothing had happened. They did not notice it, do not retaliate against me (even though I behaved badly), emotions decrease, logic goes up, and conversations continue.
It sounds like our training would be a great fit for you. Go to the quiz on our website to discover which kind is right for you: bit.ly/3N9MhWc
@@NegotiationMasteryit feels like an arrogant comment and a disregard for the potential customer. OK, copy that.
Beyond "you should quit", what were the other headline insights?
Yeah listen everyone - this is not a very good lesson in real-world, higher level pay negotiations. Everyone knows it's a two way street. Everyone ones there's market rate and the company's "ability to pay". But what we dont have here is any decent rebuttals or techniques for getting the Financial Controller - the beancounters who hold the watertight reigns on budgets and who have every line manager in their thrall - to actually see the bigger picture of staff retention, team culture, individual productivity when people are given meaningful and deserved pay rises. This clip just lacks a lot of substance. Two way street is just entry level stuff. So let's have a clip that encourages people and teaches people how to negotiate salaries once they've been in a company for a while. This will be relevant for 90% of workers. Otherwise you just contribute to this culture where the only way to get a raise is by shifting jobs.
It's less about negotiating wages and more about negotiating moves. Aim to move laterally and hopefully a little upward every 2-3 years. If you can't or haven't, Aim to change companies every 3-5 years. Not moving will prevent you from getting more than low-single-digit-percentage raises every year. Movements within will get you 10-20% bumps and moves externally can get you 20-30% or even more. In each role, aim to support your direct line leadership and the business as a whole. Then let the chips fall where they may. Be indispensable but not irreplaceable and never get too attached.
Leaving your job is not "negotiating a salary". And is it completely crazy to suggest that it shouldn't take 15 minutes to say it?
Useless 15 minutes of ads and stories but not the key ponits.
💜🙏🏾🇺🇸
Dragged in. Not drug in.
You helped me to gain so much money now... Think I owed you)))