Making something that normally hits 2s hit on 4s feels nice. Took down chaos knights with them last night, f'd up the knights pretty good. I'm in love with mortys no modifier arua.
16ppm is SPICY for Plague Marines, plus their characters and rhino all got slight point cuts (except for Surgeon, RIP). I don't love them being that cheap thematically, would have preferred datasheet changes to make them worth the 20ppm, but I'll take it.
Agree , they have never been cheaper, but they have neither been as fragile previously. And as you say Transports and Buffers are also cheaper. Hopefully it will be enough for them to be useful again
I LOVE the prospect of those Contagion options. That is something along the lines of what I thought could be an easy fix to make the army better. Love that we can choose and these actually make for some interesting choices and flexibility. The points changes are awesome too. Get to field more of my dudes!
Nice that we keep sticky objectives in detachment and get chose to bonus effect to contagions after seeing enemy army. Since it modifies characteristics, we can further apply -1 to hit, lower AP more (we have a strat for -1AP. even sometimes -2 in shooting/fighting) and debuff leadership more, I already thinking of some good combo, Hellbrute seems like a must for spreading contagions efficiently. With big points cuts I think we received a big boost, so definitely more excited to play DG now.
Ranged hellbrute is a nice multiplier - - 1 touchness plus -1 sv is a Good base for an predator destructor as Infanteriekiller. With ferric blight very potent.
Good in-depth video as usual. I was thinking about playing DG only with fixed secondaries "engage on all fronts" and "cleanse" (spoil?) eventually "deploy teleport homers".
Played a game sunday. I used the -1 ws/bs against dark angels and it was great. Rounds 1 and 2 i hid Mortarion with the 3 Plagueburst crawlers. Used deepstrikes turn 2 and with movement of turn 3 brought out Mortarion and i had basically his entire army in Contagion range. His remaining anti tank couldnt do anything against Mortarion with Contagion and cloud of flies. With the points cuts and the new Contagion i feel like this is what we were meant to be. We lost the resilience on the data sheet but we're making up our toughness from making the enemy worse. Best game of 10th ive had so far.
Death Guard definitely feel much better. I would be shocked if they're not up for buffs again in December. GW probably need to target certain datasheets to really get the job done, unless they want to bolt something on to our army rule. Blightlords need a new rule because they still suck. Plague marines are fine at 16ppm but they still fail at their design goal of being a unit which flexes by bolting transformative characters on. I think plague marines' issue is that their virions were previously costed like they were force multipliers for a unit like eradicators or desos that are 30+ppm and now they're costed like they buff 20ppm units, those virions etc are all really too expensive for a unit which dies so easily. Not exactly fragile but it's one which can't play safe if it wasn't to do anything and can't avoid danger. The Icon bearer might be a great turn 2 tech piece to ensure our contagions do something before the game is already over though.
I think this is a really good buff. If you fight a mele army (now with the custodes nerf they may be more prominent) there is no way they would like to charge you with -1T and -1WS. The damage buff with the -1SV is pretty good in melee and close range. I think DG has just become a big problem to deal with in the short distances. Mortarion for 325 is an absolute bulwark. I would prefer for the DG to be more elite and more durable insted of just point drops but this is a nice patch i think and a really good buff
Cant wait to try these changes out. I also hope that if we keep the contagion changes we get a strat similar to flash outbreak but we can swap our pre game choice on a unit for a phase.
It seems that melee nurgle will be the most durable format. With sorcerers or typhus and the new aura you will probably get the closest to true durable. The thing I like most about points decrease is it makes taking characters with units significantly more practical without making it potentially to expensive. So rather than going hordy, you can go buff heavy/support heavy with a ton of characters, extra hellbrutes, rhinos etc.
The weapon ballistic skill nerf contagion is huge. Typhus minus one to be hit in melee, Nurglings offer the same with an aura. Cloud of flies on a unit will all change hitting on 3s to 5s!!!! The leadership contagion is also very useful paired with plague marines and banner men up against something like necrons will deny them primary, As well as the points cuts I’m excited to get my death guard on the table again
I have had a thought about our fortification, for 115 you get to spread the contagion to the mid field. This wasn't great before but with the new abilities this could be useful. We also get a - 1 to be hit with 6 inches. What are your thoughts on this?
Played Plague marines spam yesterday 2 games against SM and custodians. All PM were dead by end of turn 3 after tickling the both in melee. still low tier melee and ok shooting. Cults, drones, crawlers and beasts of nurgle seam to be the most effective.
The patience of the grandfather has bountifully rewarded us! If you're up for a training mirror match or vs a questionable Blood Angels army I'm in Copenhagen. Stay rotten maestro!
Honestly, I'm not impressed. All it does is create another playstyle that requires either an investment in deeps strike units, or continues to be daemon engine spam. A point decrease doesn't stop plague marines from continuing to be worthless. The new debuffs are good in theory, but you have to not get shot off the board before reaching the enemy to actually use them. As someone who most of my DG collection was infantry, I don't want to have to spend several hundred dollars more for a chance for them to be playable when I could be investing in a functional army that can actually fight back without having to be standing next to the enemy.
Rhinos look hot, plague marines spam is quite feasible, it seems. And isn't most of DG infantry has Deep Strike rule? What kind of investment are you talking about?
I can completely understand your point since if we are talking Plague Marines or Poxwalkers they will take forever without a rhino. Also deep strike units like Deathshroud, Blightlords still suffer from their 4" movement when charging after deep strike. So a landraider and a rhino are still needed if they arent in contagion range. Well see when the codex drops if that changes, but this change wont help the army completely. I was lucky that a friend of mine printed me a rhino so i dont have to buy one. But it sucks to have to buy units to play the army.
You keep Mortarion within 6” of your PBcs. You select Mortarions reroll 1s to wound aura. The PBCs then will not have a penalty to hit even if they can’t see and you get the rerolls
MG I must have been blind not to have recognized that myself. Thank you Jannis. I like playing Mortarion very much. He is very versatile. And since the last update and the Rattlejoint Ague (Aura) the combo additionally with a Hellbrut (Infused with the Blessings of Nurgle) makes very good sense.
Yannis come back I need you - whats better at buffing 10 melee plague marines... Tallyman +1 to hit, or Biology Professer Lethals on 5+ How am I supposed to make these decisions without you?!
Same here so far ; my interest for 10th is very low ; it is not only because of Deathguard, the core rules have been simplified too much and are still very very badly written. Looks like they made all the indexes free at the start for a good reason : we are the playtesters 🙄 ...
Δεν μπορω να πω οτι μου αρέσει η μειωση πόντων για την ενδυνάμωση ενος στρατου ειδικα σε ενα πιο elite army οπως οι dg. Παρ'ολα'αυτα, τουλαχιστον τωρα εχουμε μια ευκαιρία να ανταγωνιστούμε πιο δυνατα armies και το καινούριο detachment rule προσθέτει περισσότερο flavour οποτε δεν θα παραπονεθω.
Nai einai alitheia auto. Oi pontoi mas kanoun san Horde army… that protinousa na mas dinane ksana perisotero durabilty. Alla pantws poly kalytera apo eixame mexri stigmhs
@@chopsworth3833 Are we talking about those Detachment Rules that gave us a staggering winrate of sub 35% so far, in some statistics even 21%? The new rule may be okay, but I do not believe it will bring us very far in comparison to the other factions and certainly not above 50%. And we still did not talk about the fun and flavor factor. Nurgles Gift is okay I guess but defently not the kind of gameplay I expect from Death Guard. I wanted some strong and sturdy infantry rolling up the board slowly but resilient, not the worst space marine equivalent in the game.
@@davidjones4772 Are we talking about those Detachment Rules that gave us a staggering winrate of sub 35% so far, in some statistics even 21%? The new rule may be okay, but I do not believe it will bring us very far in comparison to the other factions and certainly not above 50%. And we still did not talk about the fun and flavor factor. Nurgles Gift is okay I guess but defently not the kind of gameplay I expect from Death Guard. I wanted some strong and sturdy infantry rolling up the board slowly but resilient, not the worst space marine equivalent in the game.
I like the rules changes. However I actually dislike the point cuts. Sure, it makes the faction stronger, but I would have preferred them getting buffed through rules. Are PMs now the cheapest Marine version there is? Even Nobz are stronger, which doesn't seem right to me thematic wise. Also it is now more expensive to play the faciton.
This still wont be enough to be a 50% army. Still bad movement, no possessed, no tankyness. Our units still get removed really easily, we just have a few more now :S
Im surprised how much cheaper is Sorcerer, becouse i think he was one of the best choice before this ponts cut anyway. Now even more "must have" character. With Deathshrouds it should be very nice combo.
I also miss the weapon options and customization of the squads . And the thing is now the simplification is not really there either with many lLeader choices. But at least now we got some better rules
Wishlist for next balance pass is to replace one of our strats with a 1/2cp "pick another contagion for that unit", actually completes the identity of the reactive debuff army. Idk if that picks us up into the big leagues, but it does make games all the more nightmarish for gsc and eldar
Even if Death Guard won't be good yet, this rule addition by itself makes the army a lot more fun.
I really miss your videos! please come back. the Guard are playing well again I hope you are getting some games in. Thanks, Luke
We're back! Just wrapped up my first game with new rules and yeah, we feel so good!
Image poxwalk army with ap
Which of the three contagions did you use. I feel the SV debuff or the WS/BS debuff are the best two
@@rachelevans2144yeah, you can even charge into a melee by 5th turn =)
Making something that normally hits 2s hit on 4s feels nice. Took down chaos knights with them last night, f'd up the knights pretty good. I'm in love with mortys no modifier arua.
16ppm is SPICY for Plague Marines, plus their characters and rhino all got slight point cuts (except for Surgeon, RIP).
I don't love them being that cheap thematically, would have preferred datasheet changes to make them worth the 20ppm, but I'll take it.
Agree , they have never been cheaper, but they have neither been as fragile previously. And as you say Transports and Buffers are also cheaper. Hopefully it will be enough for them to be useful again
I LOVE the prospect of those Contagion options. That is something along the lines of what I thought could be an easy fix to make the army better. Love that we can choose and these actually make for some interesting choices and flexibility.
The points changes are awesome too. Get to field more of my dudes!
For the first time since 10th dropped, I actually feel excited for the future of death guard
Nice that we keep sticky objectives in detachment and get chose to bonus effect to contagions after seeing enemy army. Since it modifies characteristics, we can further apply -1 to hit, lower AP more (we have a strat for -1AP. even sometimes -2 in shooting/fighting) and debuff leadership more, I already thinking of some good combo, Hellbrute seems like a must for spreading contagions efficiently. With big points cuts I think we received a big boost, so definitely more excited to play DG now.
Yes good point! We modify characteristics and then have the possibility to modify more. So Tallyman at 45 pts to give us extra stratagems
Ranged hellbrute is a nice multiplier - - 1 touchness plus -1 sv is a Good base for an predator destructor as Infanteriekiller. With ferric blight very potent.
Good in-depth video as usual. I was thinking about playing DG only with fixed secondaries "engage on all fronts" and "cleanse" (spoil?) eventually "deploy teleport homers".
Thanks again Jannis, another well made video laying out the data. You rock.
Yes death guard is back! They are atleast playable and look Hella fun
The Jannis is back.
Yes I hope so! :-)
Missed ya General! Glad your back!
Played a game sunday. I used the -1 ws/bs against dark angels and it was great. Rounds 1 and 2 i hid Mortarion with the 3 Plagueburst crawlers. Used deepstrikes turn 2 and with movement of turn 3 brought out Mortarion and i had basically his entire army in Contagion range. His remaining anti tank couldnt do anything against Mortarion with Contagion and cloud of flies. With the points cuts and the new Contagion i feel like this is what we were meant to be. We lost the resilience on the data sheet but we're making up our toughness from making the enemy worse.
Best game of 10th ive had so far.
hi my general ! glad to see u, we miss you ^^
Thanks :-)
Interesting changes. Excited to see if it is enough
Grandfather will be pleased!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Death Guard definitely feel much better. I would be shocked if they're not up for buffs again in December. GW probably need to target certain datasheets to really get the job done, unless they want to bolt something on to our army rule. Blightlords need a new rule because they still suck. Plague marines are fine at 16ppm but they still fail at their design goal of being a unit which flexes by bolting transformative characters on.
I think plague marines' issue is that their virions were previously costed like they were force multipliers for a unit like eradicators or desos that are 30+ppm and now they're costed like they buff 20ppm units, those virions etc are all really too expensive for a unit which dies so easily. Not exactly fragile but it's one which can't play safe if it wasn't to do anything and can't avoid danger. The Icon bearer might be a great turn 2 tech piece to ensure our contagions do something before the game is already over though.
I think this is a really good buff. If you fight a mele army (now with the custodes nerf they may be more prominent) there is no way they would like to charge you with -1T and -1WS. The damage buff with the -1SV is pretty good in melee and close range. I think DG has just become a big problem to deal with in the short distances. Mortarion for 325 is an absolute bulwark. I would prefer for the DG to be more elite and more durable insted of just point drops but this is a nice patch i think and a really good buff
Yes. Thematically I like durable better. Now it seems they push us towards debuffing/spreading sickness. At least it’s not only -1T
Are a Deamon Prince with Wings + 2 Wardog Brigands a good idea for roaming the midfield? Maybe with The Droning on Deamon Prince as well?
Cant wait to try these changes out. I also hope that if we keep the contagion changes we get a strat similar to flash outbreak but we can swap our pre game choice on a unit for a phase.
It seems that melee nurgle will be the most durable format. With sorcerers or typhus and the new aura you will probably get the closest to true durable.
The thing I like most about points decrease is it makes taking characters with units significantly more practical without making it potentially to expensive. So rather than going hordy, you can go buff heavy/support heavy with a ton of characters, extra hellbrutes, rhinos etc.
Are Plague Marines with bolters back on the menu for crowd clearing? 🤔🤔🤔
The weapon ballistic skill nerf contagion is huge. Typhus minus one to be hit in melee, Nurglings offer the same with an aura. Cloud of flies on a unit will all change hitting on 3s to 5s!!!! The leadership contagion is also very useful paired with plague marines and banner men up against something like necrons will deny them primary, As well as the points cuts I’m excited to get my death guard on the table again
I still think -1 Sv is plain better overall
The nigglings - 1 to the hit roll while the DG is a - 1 to the characteristic so if I am reading this correctly adds to a - 2.
Exactly right. They all have play and can turn dg very versatile
I have had a thought about our fortification, for 115 you get to spread the contagion to the mid field. This wasn't great before but with the new abilities this could be useful. We also get a - 1 to be hit with 6 inches. What are your thoughts on this?
Praise Be !
Hey, it’s not possessed returning, or army wide durability, but at least it’s something. And something really good for that matter.
You should make a video breaking down which sickness to take into each faction and why
Wow they actually did what I said they should and gave a minus save to contagion?
And there's two other options I didn't anticipate it seems.
Played Plague marines spam yesterday 2 games against SM and custodians. All PM were dead by end of turn 3 after tickling the both in melee. still low tier melee and ok shooting. Cults, drones, crawlers and beasts of nurgle seam to be the most effective.
Hey bro! Are you alright? I hope so, We Wait you here 😄
Where have you gone General Jannis?
The patience of the grandfather has bountifully rewarded us! If you're up for a training mirror match or vs a questionable Blood Angels army I'm in Copenhagen. Stay rotten maestro!
Papa bless! 🪰🪰🪰
Think -1 Sv is the way to go. Helbrutes + that aura = shooty DG (infuse enemy with -1 Sv blessing at range and shoot them out). Kinky.
Bro where are you, we miss your videos
Honestly, I'm not impressed. All it does is create another playstyle that requires either an investment in deeps strike units, or continues to be daemon engine spam. A point decrease doesn't stop plague marines from continuing to be worthless.
The new debuffs are good in theory, but you have to not get shot off the board before reaching the enemy to actually use them.
As someone who most of my DG collection was infantry, I don't want to have to spend several hundred dollars more for a chance for them to be playable when I could be investing in a functional army that can actually fight back without having to be standing next to the enemy.
Rhinos look hot, plague marines spam is quite feasible, it seems. And isn't most of DG infantry has Deep Strike rule? What kind of investment are you talking about?
I can completely understand your point since if we are talking Plague Marines or Poxwalkers they will take forever without a rhino. Also deep strike units like Deathshroud, Blightlords still suffer from their 4" movement when charging after deep strike. So a landraider and a rhino are still needed if they arent in contagion range. Well see when the codex drops if that changes, but this change wont help the army completely. I was lucky that a friend of mine printed me a rhino so i dont have to buy one. But it sucks to have to buy units to play the army.
If GW think I'm going to buy more models to fill in the plummeting point cost they're smoking some kind of super meth
Please help me. How exactly does the combo work with 3x PBC and Mortarion?
You keep Mortarion within 6” of your PBcs. You select Mortarions reroll 1s to wound aura. The PBCs then will not have a penalty to hit even if they can’t see and you get the rerolls
@@generaljannis
MG I must have been blind not to have recognized that myself. Thank you Jannis. I like playing Mortarion very much. He is very versatile. And since the last update and the Rattlejoint Ague (Aura) the combo additionally with a Hellbrut (Infused with the Blessings of Nurgle) makes very good sense.
question from a noob: could I use lord of virulence + tallyman or would that be against the rules
Short answer, yes.
Long answer,
Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss
Yes :-)
Huge Stinky Win my Putrid Brothers!
Lets go. :D
GW "Here's 10th Edit to fix the utter mess that 9th has become!"...
Where is new videos?)
DG never went away for me.
Yannis come back I need you - whats better at buffing 10 melee plague marines...
Tallyman +1 to hit, or Biology Professer Lethals on 5+
How am I supposed to make these decisions without you?!
Where are you man?
comeback
Same here so far ; my interest for 10th is very low ; it is not only because of Deathguard, the core rules have been simplified too much and are still very very badly written.
Looks like they made all the indexes free at the start for a good reason : we are the playtesters 🙄 ...
Δεν μπορω να πω οτι μου αρέσει η μειωση πόντων για την ενδυνάμωση ενος στρατου ειδικα σε ενα πιο elite army οπως οι dg. Παρ'ολα'αυτα, τουλαχιστον τωρα εχουμε μια ευκαιρία να ανταγωνιστούμε πιο δυνατα armies και το καινούριο detachment rule προσθέτει περισσότερο flavour οποτε δεν θα παραπονεθω.
Nai einai alitheia auto. Oi pontoi mas kanoun san Horde army… that protinousa na mas dinane ksana perisotero durabilty. Alla pantws poly kalytera apo eixame mexri stigmhs
Oh yes, make Death Guard a horde based army, that's what we need, not strong Detachment Rules :(
Did you not see the same Detachment rule the rest of us did?
You have the best detachment rules in the whole of 40K.
@@chopsworth3833 Are we talking about those Detachment Rules that gave us a staggering winrate of sub 35% so far, in some statistics even 21%?
The new rule may be okay, but I do not believe it will bring us very far in comparison to the other factions and certainly not above 50%.
And we still did not talk about the fun and flavor factor. Nurgles Gift is okay I guess but defently not the kind of gameplay I expect from Death Guard. I wanted some strong and sturdy infantry rolling up the board slowly but resilient, not the worst space marine equivalent in the game.
@@davidjones4772 Are we talking about those Detachment Rules that gave us a staggering winrate of sub 35% so far, in some statistics even 21%?
The new rule may be okay, but I do not believe it will bring us very far in comparison to the other factions and certainly not above 50%.
And we still did not talk about the fun and flavor factor. Nurgles Gift is okay I guess but defently not the kind of gameplay I expect from Death Guard. I wanted some strong and sturdy infantry rolling up the board slowly but resilient, not the worst space marine equivalent in the game.
@@davidjones4772 No we do not lmao calm down
Jannis where are you ? :(
Now it seems not cost-effective to buff 160 points 10 plague marines with 50 points characters. I‘d like to use more 5 marines squares in my army.
I like the rules changes.
However I actually dislike the point cuts. Sure, it makes the faction stronger, but I would have preferred them getting buffed through rules. Are PMs now the cheapest Marine version there is? Even Nobz are stronger, which doesn't seem right to me thematic wise. Also it is now more expensive to play the faciton.
Yes I think we are cheapest Marine now. But this goes to show how poor our overall rules where compare to to others
I came here to say this.
This still wont be enough to be a 50% army. Still bad movement, no possessed, no tankyness. Our units still get removed really easily, we just have a few more now :S
If you take the 1st option in the new detachment rule you will essentially be 33% more durable.
@@byrongotcha Most armies shoot you from outside of 9 inches
Would living plague and morty buff not boost contagion range to 15 inches?
@@YuckyYads No, it wouldnt. MAx is 12, and that can be done only by the standard bearer I think.
@@YuckyYads No, the max is 12 inch. And this can only be achieved by the standard bearers special ability if I recall correctly.
Im surprised how much cheaper is Sorcerer, becouse i think he was one of the best choice before this ponts cut anyway. Now even more "must have" character. With Deathshrouds it should be very nice combo.
Yes exactly
Wooohoooo first
I can't play this game anymore... no customizeablility with forced squad sizes and fixed points costs means no real list building creativity anymore.
I also miss the weapon options and customization of the squads . And the thing is now the simplification is not really there either with many lLeader choices. But at least now we got some better rules
Yea the "easier" fixed unit sizes and free wargear actually make it more difficult to build lists
Death guard are so OP, I played entire campaign with for my friends and out of about 80 games. I think they won two against me XD
Wishlist for next balance pass is to replace one of our strats with a 1/2cp "pick another contagion for that unit", actually completes the identity of the reactive debuff army. Idk if that picks us up into the big leagues, but it does make games all the more nightmarish for gsc and eldar