@@JL-go3 and it was cause besides the tunnel you had Cirith Ungol just on the other side so no one in their right mind would tempt the tunnel and if Sam and Frodo didn’t have their magic 1st 2nd age weapons and the vial from Galadriel they wouldn’t have made it. As the book said even a mighty old age hero or champion would be unable to easily cut Shelobs hide with magic blades. It was her own weight that got her a bad stab and sams small size made it easier to get at her eyes
Well if all they can do is act like a spider because of their bodys form they are still a spider. A balrog is a mair but it can only use flame, whips and a sword. Thats still its physical form.
@reecebiscuits420 i understand perfectly bud its just people are trying to make it more complicated than it is. Ungoliant was a dark/fallen spirit in spider form but still had 8 legs and produced webs. Shelob was similar but on a smaller scale. Their abililies are that of spiders mainly so why bother calling them something else? Were they in spider form but actually unicorn spirits? That makes zero sense
I suppose it might be a useful insurance policy for Sauron, in the event that Morgoth ever escaped from beyond the Walls of Night as prophesied to eventually happen before the Dagor Dagorath. Melkor: Sauron! I have returned. You appear to have built a wonderful empire for me, while I was away. Sauron: Um... yes, sure, Master. I did it all for you, just so when you returned I could step aside and let you return to the throne. Melkor: Well, obviously. Though I don't think too much of all this 'organisation' and 'industry'. I mean, I like all the chaos and death you've caused in the process, but don't forget, we're supposed to be about destruction and hate and eternal chaos, not "order" and all that crap. Anyway, never mind, I can soon tear it all to pieces. Which way to my new throne room? Through this Black Gate? Sauron: Actually, the Black Gate's closed for maintenance this weekend, my Lord. You need to go past Minas Morgul and then up through the pass of Cirith Ungol.... Melkor: Ah, right, thanks for the tip, ok, just strolling over that way then, tra-la-la-la- oooooooooohhhh sh** it's a f***ing giant spider, you know I f***ing hate spiders after what happened with Ungoliant..... oh f***ing hell it's f***ing enormous I'm getting out of here.....! Sauron: Oh dear. What a terrible shame. I guess I'll just have to carry on ruling Middle-Earth, won't I? Manwe: Wait a minute- we were supposed to have this giant fight with him and destroy all life on Earth! Sauron: So... what you're saying is... I saved everyone from armageddon? I guess that makes me the good guy after all! In fact, that basically makes me the hero in the end. Galadriel: I still don't bloody fancy you, you nine-fingered perv! Sauron: Then I shall assume the guise of Bezossatar, Lord of Prime Gifts, and make a TV series in which you do.
I never liked the depiction of shelob and ungoliant as a huge spiders. They were spider like monsters, not just huge spiders. Some of the ungoliant artwork in this video is awesome in that regard! I thought shelob in the movie looked way 2 much like a spider, some more fantasy would have been appreciated for her looks.
Yeah, the text clearly describes her as having horns, a neck and claws. That's not 100% spider. Though as an arachnophobe I personally find "giant spider" creepier than "giant monster" so the film depiction works for me.
@@Tim85-y2q Haha fair enough! I was expecting more creativity than just a big spider for the movies. Its CGI already so they could have gone nuts with it!
@@Tim85-y2q I would somewhat argue a Giant Spider that has those monster feature details poking off of it is even more frightening than just a giant spider itself. And I myself wouldn’t say I’m the biggest fan of spiders thats for sure
Tbf I think it deals with reconciling Tolkien’s words with onscreen portrayals. When I read FotR, I knew the Balrog was larger than the taller members of the Fellowship, but I never pictured it being bigger than trolls. I think the way it was depicted in the Bakshi film or the FotR PC game is about how I saw it. But Peter Jackson made it gargantuan like it could swat trolls like flies. I feel though that Jackson was reconciling the fact that the size is vague in the book as it’s described as looking bigger than it actually was. Jackson does a good job of obscuring the Balrog at times in the darkness and it works really well, but naturally it’s difficult to do a 1:1 adaptation in terms of design. I think the same can be said about the designs for Ungoliant and Shelob.
Hold up, isnt ungoliant just a being that exhists in the world . Shes like the nameless ones, not made by the song but always in the void, as a force of unlife, her insatiable hunger being her downfall, It was melkor who found her den in arda and persuaded her to join him, promising her the sun and the moon to feast on, Which she happily accepted, It was after consuming the litteral sun and moon, that she grew massive, And began to covet the silmarils, believing melkor should feed them her . he refused as he also coveted them for him self, so she attacked him . he let out a mighty scream that echoed through out middle earth or arda and that rose the balrogs to his aid, They whipped and slashed at ungoliant together, and freed melkor, driving her away to the sandy plains and she give birth to the spiders of mirkwood and shelob before she continued her quest for more and more food, Ultimately leading to her never being satiated and consuming herself (So they say) So shelob is very similar to her mother, her size is about the size ungoliant was when she met melkor, The spiders grow bigger the more they consume, so not only did sauron leave her there, he probably limited her food enough so she wouldnt grow to big, and the cave would surfice to keep her small, So he called her a cat, as both a joke and hw her viewed the ammount of control he has, not that she recognised him as her owner, So instead she went around him and tried to use golem to bring her food, rather then waiting for the meager food sauron provides . both shelob and ungoliant could communicate, and its debatable if they are spirits or just a creature similar to the nameless who exist from the void rather then the song, even the valar and mayar didnt know she exhisted, neither melkor, he just happened apon her.
Idea I heard somewhere else: Shelob is a potential threat, sure, but all she wants to do is eat and spin her web She guards the pass, well uses it as her hunting ground, and Sauron can focus on bigger things It'd be a bloody conflict for him and he'd lose many an orc and even potentially make her angry enough to attack those are just my quick thoughts though
The most interesting detail about her story to me rn is the fact that she could understand spoken languages, I wonder how she could communicate with Gollum
I mean humans can only reproduce for a fixed period of their lives before having children becomes impossible. Maybe she is passed her child bearing years by the time we meet her in LOTR?
He wasn't talking about Shelob, he was talking about Ungoliant. And if you listen, he was talking about Ainur being sterile but he did also say "however", which means there was an exception, and that's when he mentioned Ungoliant was still able have children. So no... he did not contradict himself.
Tolkien seemed to be playing both ends of the power level with Shelob. On the one hand she was daughter of Ungoliant and immensely powerful, yet she was killed by a magic dagger. Now it was a really nice magic dagger, but it is hard to believe that the elves put all that much power even into their daggers, especially since Sam was not exactly massively powerful a wielder. And yes, he also had the fragment of the star of Elendil, but even so...
I'd buy it that they did.....I mean, consider this: During the age in which blades like Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting were forged, the elves weren't just fighting mere orcs and trolls, they were in open war with, and fighting dragons, balrogs, Ungoliant, Morgoth and WHO *KNOWS* what other kind of eldritch creatures of great power and evil! There were times where even *they* could *barely* rise up to the challenge! Such a war would, and inevitably did, FORCE them to create weapons that could actually stand up to such conflicts or face unavoidable defeat.....
@@19TheFallen But Shelob is played up as a similar order of creature and the weapon, in the hands of someone barely trained in combat (unlike Merri and Pippin, who both had guard/soldier backgrounds in the Shire, Sam was a gardiner), kills Shelob in essentially two thrusts? Wielding Glamdring, which is described as a full longsword (hand and a half sword), Gandalf, a far more powerful Maya, requires an epic fight taking out half a mountain to take out one Balrog. For a first age divine creature, herself, Shelob seems pretty darn weak.
@@nctpti2073 I will agree that the notion that Sam defeating her is kind of odd, but, there is a truth: Shelob was a lesser descendent of a greater evil power. Not a pushover, mind you, seeing as she survived the ages. It's a running theme in Tolkien's works: As time goes by, the power of these beings dwindles through the generations. Saruman, for example, is to Sauron, what Sauron was to Morgoth. Shelob's offspring are, to her, what she likely was next to Ungoliant. And Smaug would look like a baby next to Glaurung, the so-called "father of the dragons". Weaker, lesser beings or sires in the cases of Shelob and Smaug, but still *very* dangerous. Especially to someone like a Hobbit. Which, to me, hints that there *had* to have been some divine intervention, like with the destruction of the Ring, during Sam's fight with her, that enabled him to hit the right place, which, coupled with Sting, and its ancient, magical properties, allowed for him to defeat her. As for the Balrog, it was one of the few, remaining Balrogs of the First Age that had gone into hiding, meaning that it had a greater power to it. Now, I know I said earlier that Shelob isn't a pushover, and in most circumstances *wouldn't* be, but next to the Balrog, she *is* a pushover that the Balrog would easily defeat, and, only one, such as Gandalf, could have ever hoped to defeat it. It truly was a foe that was beyond any of the rest of the Fellowship, or anyone else in Middle Earth, save for Galadriel, Glorfindel or (maybe) Elrond.
She wasn't killed, just wounded. And Sam didn't stab her - he just held the sword upright. It even says no power could have stabbed her except for her own strength driving down.
Fish don’t reproduce via the same methods. They lay eggs which a male then comes and fertilizes he doesn’t mate with the female Spiders make egg sacs full of eggs. Males would fertilize that if allowed
Actually, Sting was an Elvish 𝘥𝘢𝘨𝘨𝘦𝘳 in the possession of a Hobbit. It's just that because of his stature, Sting made an excellent short-sword for Bilbo.
Can one truly kill ancient evil? Probably not. I'm pretty sure Shelob is still alive, but injured. However, it is likely that after a long period of time and feasting, she'll likely recover from her wounds, but learn an important lesson and be more cautious and stealthier.
@@atabreh She didn't lose all her legs. If nothing passed through there anymore she may have simply found another dark part of the world to inhabit and other things to feed on.
@@Flaristhe problem with that is shed have to leave her lair, and doing so she’d draw attention with her huge size out in the open…not to mention the sun would be unbearably strong on her given she hates light and it would be worse with the darkness leaving Mordor…I imagine with frodo being the sol survivor to ever encounter her he’d have made people aware of the danger that was causing problems up near the pass of Minas morgul…so I imagine humans elves and dwarves would either draw a huge army to go and make sure she was killed themselves…or at the very least warn everyone to stay away from her…she wouldn’t get good meals ever again and die…my point is, she’s dying regardless…
Ungoliant's origins is just as mysterious as her disappearance. It wasn't confirmed that she consumed herself or even died. She could be slumbering or went to a whole other world
Imagine a spider the size of a two story building with huge horns covered in spikes.. Imagine it now. And now imagine it being almost killed by a gardener.
As we saw in the films shelob was bested by a hobbit of all things, sure Sauron probably didn't know but that kind of explains the power of Shelob. She wasn't magical or had any void powers like her mother, so chances are Sauron didn't really see her as anything other than a minor annoyance at worst. Sauron didn't really care about his troops, so sending troops under the pass with the understanding that some may be taken by a giant spider who in fact could be killed easily if she attacked an army head on really wouldn't phase him. Not to mention just the sheer amount of orcs he had at his disposal you can see just how little of a difference shelob actually makes.
*Good video* but a bit fast & lose with some facts: i.e. Nobody actually knows what Ungoliant was. Also, it was only rumored she devoured herself but once again, nobody knows what exactly happened to her. Also also Ungoliant didn’t attack Melkor in self defense because he was trying to “rid” himself of her. Lastly: Melian was a Maiar and she most definitely was not sterile. Like I said, good video but a few of the “facts” are not accurate with Tolkien’s Lore. (Can you re-edit the inaccuracies so this video is solid with Tolkien’s writing?) I really do enjoy your uploads. Cheers and thank you.
Tolkien wrote that Sauron called her his cat, "though she owned him not." I think that was a mistake. He probably meant to write "though he owned her not."
Without Orcs to feed on and sauron's dominion having fallen, the best bet would be that Shelob had to hunt for her food, and eventually may have been killed. Or, she devoured herself like her mother. Could have gone into deep hiding and slumber, never to wake again.
I sort of wonder if Shadow of War was ever canon to the movies that Shelob had a “human” form to her though I would also guess that all the mysticism we saw in the game would be more related to Ungoliant.
We dont know Ungoliant descended from the void. Possibility she could be a cration from melkors discord in the song. Melian was an ainur and she had a child. As powerful as Shelob was, she kept to Cirith Ungol. Obviously she knew venturing forth through Mordor would not be good for her survival.
Wai wai wai wai wait... 3:34 "All Ainur are sterile"? For real? Have you heard about a certain Luthien, DAUGHTER of a certain Maia Melian? How did that came to be then?
They could not reprocreate with other Ainur, but they can with other creatures. Like indeed Melian and Thingol or Ungoliant and the lesser spider creatures
It's absolutely true. Melian is the only exception. Actually, I thought of saying it briefly, but I didn't want to confuse those who don't know by adding this phenomenon, which only appears in one person, to the video. After all, none of them except Melian can have children.
@@derekmiller6091 Tolkien clearly stated that Melian was an outstanding case, an exception. See Morgoth's Ring. Dragons do not display any features that are specific for Ainur.
The text explicitly states that Sauron knew she was there and found her useful. Sauron as a Maiar likely appreciated Shelob, daughter of another Maiar, Ungoliant, to be a strong bulwark against invasion.
Ungoliant is not said to be a Maiar nor is referenced as one. She is not of Iru and thus not the same being or lineage of beings that are the Maiar and Valar.
@@christianstout6390 All beings are of Eru, and all were created good. Elrond mentions this dynamic in the Lord of the Rings. The Valar are explicitly named, and she is not named among them. The text is likewise explicit in saying, “She descended from the darkness” that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe and that in the beginning she was one of those he corrupted to his service. (Silmarillion, Chapter 8: The Darkening of Valinor) Thus, logically and consistent with the Ainulindale, she must be a Maia for the only orders of being revealed are Iluvatar Himself and the Ainur. Since she is not named as one of the Valar, that leaves only the Maiar. The same must be said of Tom Bombadil.
Nope, Ungoliant came from the darkness itself and was not corrupted by Melkor. Some theories suggest that TB is an avatar of Eru himself. Gandalf would recognise him as a fellow Maia.
@@derekmiller6091 There are no other orders of being mentioned other than Valar and Maiar to which Shelob could belong. See the reference I provided. And Gandalf explicitly mentioned that he would go hang out with Bombadil toward the end of the Lord of the Rings, which is very consistent with my internally consistent logic.
Why interfere?! I mean shelob is like your neighbors dog you dont like yet it protect that side of the fence, so you only have to worried about your front door. Sauron knew that hes not stupid 😂😂😂😂
I think Sauron couldn’t control Shelob or Ungoliant just like he couldn’t control the balrog. It was more trouble than it was worth and I don’t think Sauron wanted that smoke. Perhaps the spiders also served a purpose in their present capacity. This is my opinion.
Because no one would be crazy enough going through the tunnels, neither would Frodo or Sam if they had known the danger that were lurking there. They went there because of the trap set up by Gollum, even he didn’t think the manage to get through alive. They only did because of the items given to them, some would call that plot armour, which there are oceans off in LOTR. In fact Gollum is the biggest plot armour because without Gollum they never would have found a way in or getting the ring destroyed Shelob an offspring of Ungoliant that were some sort of spirit of unknown origin the spider like body where her Fana, she is speculated to be everything from Ainur to a spirit from the dark void surrounding Arda it could even be a deliberate creation of Eru or the consequence of Melkor part of the song, putting her in the same unknown origin as the nameless things and the watcher in the water. It’s clear neither of these were beast corrupted by Melkor once he ascended down on Arda as they were there before the Valar and Maiar, just as is the case with Tom Bombadil. However Shelob was a creation of Ungoliant and those not a a spirit as such.
@@D.p12360 It’s just a word for when a writer had put a given individual into a situation they couldn’t realistically and objectively get themselves out off, but then invent ability, person or object that help them out of said situation.
@@D.p12360 it’s used in more realistic genres as well and as seen with other writers within the genre they don’t feel like protecting key individuals when brought into hopeless situations, so kill them off when it happens. This rarely happens in JRRT books where he let them survive because he already decided beforehand and the effect of that is they need to gain ability, dumb luck, tools etc. to survive some of them on the brink of being a Mary Sue.
@@Mr.Feanor The video states that she learned Melkor intended to do away with her. But what actually happened was she demanded the Silmarils and he said no, then the fight started. What do you not get? I time stamped what to listen to that was wrong. Now I wrote it out and also what actually started the fight between them so you can see how they are two different reasons
@@mist3rmaniac No...he said that she saw that he wanted to get RID OF HER, to LEAVE with the silmarils, and that's when she attacked him, as he said in the video, so it's true, so he wasn't wrong buddy🤣🤦♂️
Sauron may may referred to Shelob as his "cat".. due to a fruitless and impossible arrogant desire for control. His only acknowledgement of the limits of his power was that he would never to be a suitable companion for a cat and that a cat would never abide in his presence.. 😉
I'm calling it before I watch the whole vid. Basically have you ever been presented with a fight that you KNOW will absolutely wreck you!! You believe in the win but you know the win will be soooo painful and the recovery soooo long you simply NOPE out!! I don't need the drama, the damage and shelob ain't a thing really to me!? I mean we keep our distance and there is respect so why trade a good situation for a bad one!? Now I will watch the video.
That sounds logical. If Shelob was less powerful than Ungoliant, Sauron was also less powerful than Melkor/Morgoth and may have been as vulnerable to Shelob as Melkor was to Ungoliant. Sauron lacking a large force of Balrogs like his master commanded, would most likely call upon the Ringwraiths to assist him if Shelob was ever overcoming him in a direct confrontation.
No it wouldnt. While Melkor spend much of his power in shaping the world and his servants, Sauron kept most of his power for himself. Melkor kept getting weaker while Sauron grew stronger. In the end Sauron would be more powerful than Melkor i bet.
Sauron would have no personal reason to fear her at all. Sauron is leagues above her. Tolkien mentions that the reason why Shelob didnt serve Sauron was because Sauron was Melkors servant whom Shelob hated due to the treachery between Melkor and her mother
This is making me think of that terrible game "the war of Mardor" which shelob was in that as a woman and was turned by sauron! for ages i thought that was cannon but it's not!
Have you ever actually read Tolkien’s writings? Ungoliant tried to kill Melkor. Also, Shelob is seen as useful by Sauron. There is no affection for the offspring of a creature who attempted to merk his former boss.
@@GreatGreebo Sauron has no affection for anyone period. But there are things that he doesn't like, and therefore things that he likes. He definitely likes Shelob more than elves, so he leaves her alone and sends her some food once in a while. That's definitely way more than orcs get.
@@BIGESTbladeYes, he occasionally sent prisoner's to her and didn't 'begrudge her an orc or two, as he had those in plenty'. I think the book had a line similar to that.(Has been a while since I read it).
I always assumed that she survived Sam's attack. But the 4th age would not have been a happy place for Shelob. And as men cleaned out Mordor to make it habitable, no doubt they encountered Shelob, and then she would have been killed.
There is another theory which is seldom discussed. Remember that Ungoliant got bigger the more she ate. She became massive upon devouring the light of the two trees. When the Balrogs drove her off as a group, she went about her existence as before, but never again would she find such rich food. Slowly but surely she would grow smaller and smaller, returning to her original size. Do you see where I'm going with this? It would fit with the imagery the fancy words that stated far in the East she ate herself. Where Shelob made her abode, is in the East, at least as far as those of the West are concerned. It is far in the East from where Ungoliant made her abode after fleeing the Balrogs. For all intents and purposes Shelob has all the powers of Ungoliant. I'm not sure why this video infers that she doesn't. Nothing of Ungoliant's original abilities are missing in the lair of Shelob. Tolkien often changed his mind and went back to ideas again and again. I submit that Shelob and Ungoliant are the same spiritual entity, that she imbued herself into the body of one of her offspring as her previous, shrinking (and wounded by Balrog weapons) body eventually failed. Ungoliant/Shelob is the same, immortal creature.
she can’t cast the unlight which is one of ungoliants staples for moving around.Shelob was just stealthy even before devouring the nectar of the two trees ungoliant could weave unlight around what she choose.
@@Ross1221-0 We don't know that she can't cast the unlight because in the Lord of the Rings we see her only in her caves. She has no need to cast it there. Her cave itself is described as a darkness in places that wasn't normal darkness. I'll get you the exact passage when I'm not at work. :)
Genuinely i dont think sauron at full power would fuck with Shelob, sauron is strong, but everyone feels fear, and a big damn spider like that makes EVERYONE fuckin scared lmfao
It makes me think Sauron believed no one would go up the stairs and through the tunnels with Her in there. He believed it was secure.
@@JL-go3 and it was cause besides the tunnel you had Cirith Ungol just on the other side so no one in their right mind would tempt the tunnel and if Sam and Frodo didn’t have their magic 1st 2nd age weapons and the vial from Galadriel they wouldn’t have made it. As the book said even a mighty old age hero or champion would be unable to easily cut Shelobs hide with magic blades. It was her own weight that got her a bad stab and sams small size made it easier to get at her eyes
Too answer the question, Shelob was a good guard against any spies that would be trying to find a secret way into Mordor.
And would be a terrifying, horrific way to die.
You don't mess with weird aliens, you just let them be...
Ungoliant and Shelob were not Spiders. They just looked like spiders, they were evil spirits looking like spiders.
This right here 👌
Well if all they can do is act like a spider because of their bodys form they are still a spider. A balrog is a mair but it can only use flame, whips and a sword. Thats still its physical form.
@@skillsmachine9164 I don’t think you understand buddy
@reecebiscuits420 i understand perfectly bud its just people are trying to make it more complicated than it is. Ungoliant was a dark/fallen spirit in spider form but still had 8 legs and produced webs. Shelob was similar but on a smaller scale. Their abililies are that of spiders mainly so why bother calling them something else? Were they in spider form but actually unicorn spirits? That makes zero sense
@skillsmachine9164 tbf ungol mated with other spiders so while she may be a spirit as a spider
Shelob is certainly a spider
I suppose it might be a useful insurance policy for Sauron, in the event that Morgoth ever escaped from beyond the Walls of Night as prophesied to eventually happen before the Dagor Dagorath.
Melkor: Sauron! I have returned. You appear to have built a wonderful empire for me, while I was away.
Sauron: Um... yes, sure, Master. I did it all for you, just so when you returned I could step aside and let you return to the throne.
Melkor: Well, obviously. Though I don't think too much of all this 'organisation' and 'industry'. I mean, I like all the chaos and death you've caused in the process, but don't forget, we're supposed to be about destruction and hate and eternal chaos, not "order" and all that crap. Anyway, never mind, I can soon tear it all to pieces. Which way to my new throne room? Through this Black Gate?
Sauron: Actually, the Black Gate's closed for maintenance this weekend, my Lord. You need to go past Minas Morgul and then up through the pass of Cirith Ungol....
Melkor: Ah, right, thanks for the tip, ok, just strolling over that way then, tra-la-la-la- oooooooooohhhh sh** it's a f***ing giant spider, you know I f***ing hate spiders after what happened with Ungoliant..... oh f***ing hell it's f***ing enormous I'm getting out of here.....!
Sauron: Oh dear. What a terrible shame. I guess I'll just have to carry on ruling Middle-Earth, won't I?
Manwe: Wait a minute- we were supposed to have this giant fight with him and destroy all life on Earth!
Sauron: So... what you're saying is... I saved everyone from armageddon? I guess that makes me the good guy after all! In fact, that basically makes me the hero in the end.
Galadriel: I still don't bloody fancy you, you nine-fingered perv!
Sauron: Then I shall assume the guise of Bezossatar, Lord of Prime Gifts, and make a TV series in which you do.
This is amazing. 😂😂😂
Yo the ending was gold
I never liked the depiction of shelob and ungoliant as a huge spiders. They were spider like monsters, not just huge spiders. Some of the ungoliant artwork in this video is awesome in that regard! I thought shelob in the movie looked way 2 much like a spider, some more fantasy would have been appreciated for her looks.
Yeah, the text clearly describes her as having horns, a neck and claws. That's not 100% spider. Though as an arachnophobe I personally find "giant spider" creepier than "giant monster" so the film depiction works for me.
@@Tim85-y2q Haha fair enough! I was expecting more creativity than just a big spider for the movies. Its CGI already so they could have gone nuts with it!
That being said, Shelob's appearance onscreen is some of the best stuff. There never has been a better fantasy movie than LOTR.
@@Tim85-y2q I would somewhat argue a Giant Spider that has those monster feature details poking off of it is even more frightening than just a giant spider itself. And I myself wouldn’t say I’m the biggest fan of spiders thats for sure
Tbf I think it deals with reconciling Tolkien’s words with onscreen portrayals. When I read FotR, I knew the Balrog was larger than the taller members of the Fellowship, but I never pictured it being bigger than trolls. I think the way it was depicted in the Bakshi film or the FotR PC game is about how I saw it. But Peter Jackson made it gargantuan like it could swat trolls like flies. I feel though that Jackson was reconciling the fact that the size is vague in the book as it’s described as looking bigger than it actually was. Jackson does a good job of obscuring the Balrog at times in the darkness and it works really well, but naturally it’s difficult to do a 1:1 adaptation in terms of design. I think the same can be said about the designs for Ungoliant and Shelob.
Hold up, isnt ungoliant just a being that exhists in the world . Shes like the nameless ones, not made by the song but always in the void, as a force of unlife, her insatiable hunger being her downfall, It was melkor who found her den in arda and persuaded her to join him, promising her the sun and the moon to feast on, Which she happily accepted, It was after consuming the litteral sun and moon, that she grew massive, And began to covet the silmarils, believing melkor should feed them her . he refused as he also coveted them for him self, so she attacked him . he let out a mighty scream that echoed through out middle earth or arda and that rose the balrogs to his aid, They whipped and slashed at ungoliant together, and freed melkor, driving her away to the sandy plains and she give birth to the spiders of mirkwood and shelob before she continued her quest for more and more food, Ultimately leading to her never being satiated and consuming herself (So they say) So shelob is very similar to her mother, her size is about the size ungoliant was when she met melkor, The spiders grow bigger the more they consume, so not only did sauron leave her there, he probably limited her food enough so she wouldnt grow to big, and the cave would surfice to keep her small, So he called her a cat, as both a joke and hw her viewed the ammount of control he has, not that she recognised him as her owner, So instead she went around him and tried to use golem to bring her food, rather then waiting for the meager food sauron provides . both shelob and ungoliant could communicate, and its debatable if they are spirits or just a creature similar to the nameless who exist from the void rather then the song, even the valar and mayar didnt know she exhisted, neither melkor, he just happened apon her.
Idea I heard somewhere else: Shelob is a potential threat, sure, but all she wants to do is eat and spin her web
She guards the pass, well uses it as her hunting ground, and Sauron can focus on bigger things
It'd be a bloody conflict for him and he'd lose many an orc and even potentially make her angry enough to attack
those are just my quick thoughts though
The most interesting detail about her story to me rn is the fact that she could understand spoken languages, I wonder how she could communicate with Gollum
I'm curious as to why the balrogs seemed unaffected by Ungoliant's webs of darkness when even Valars such as Tulkas and Oromë were confounded by them.
Balrogs are just on another level, one of them fought gandalf to a standstill, so..... Theyre pretty fuckin strong lmfao rofl
Also their bodies are pretty much lava, kinda hard for webs to attach to fire lmfao
Valars are stronger than Gandalf.
@@babansifguy you're responding to ends sentences with "lmfao rofl", IQ in the double digits for sure.
They are fire and thus cast light.
3:37 If Shelob was sterile, then how could she have offspring for the spiders of merlurk? You’re counterdictating yourself here.
I mean humans can only reproduce for a fixed period of their lives before having children becomes impossible. Maybe she is passed her child bearing years by the time we meet her in LOTR?
It’s a book you can make up anything
thats ai for you
He wasn't talking about Shelob, he was talking about Ungoliant. And if you listen, he was talking about Ainur being sterile but he did also say "however", which means there was an exception, and that's when he mentioned Ungoliant was still able have children. So no... he did not contradict himself.
Someones slow as hell. Rewatch and you'll find your error. Thats what happens when you rush to comment instead of listening properly 😂
"There was nothing Sauron couldn't handle."
Except Gollumn.
cause no one wants to go find a spider, they usually come and finds you
Tolkien seemed to be playing both ends of the power level with Shelob. On the one hand she was daughter of Ungoliant and immensely powerful, yet she was killed by a magic dagger. Now it was a really nice magic dagger, but it is hard to believe that the elves put all that much power even into their daggers, especially since Sam was not exactly massively powerful a wielder.
And yes, he also had the fragment of the star of Elendil, but even so...
I'd buy it that they did.....I mean, consider this: During the age in which blades like Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting were forged, the elves weren't just fighting mere orcs and trolls, they were in open war with, and fighting dragons, balrogs, Ungoliant, Morgoth and WHO *KNOWS* what other kind of eldritch creatures of great power and evil! There were times where even *they* could *barely* rise up to the challenge! Such a war would, and inevitably did, FORCE them to create weapons that could actually stand up to such conflicts or face unavoidable defeat.....
@@19TheFallen But Shelob is played up as a similar order of creature and the weapon, in the hands of someone barely trained in combat (unlike Merri and Pippin, who both had guard/soldier backgrounds in the Shire, Sam was a gardiner), kills Shelob in essentially two thrusts?
Wielding Glamdring, which is described as a full longsword (hand and a half sword), Gandalf, a far more powerful Maya, requires an epic fight taking out half a mountain to take out one Balrog. For a first age divine creature, herself, Shelob seems pretty darn weak.
@@nctpti2073 I will agree that the notion that Sam defeating her is kind of odd, but, there is a truth: Shelob was a lesser descendent of a greater evil power. Not a pushover, mind you, seeing as she survived the ages. It's a running theme in Tolkien's works: As time goes by, the power of these beings dwindles through the generations.
Saruman, for example, is to Sauron, what Sauron was to Morgoth. Shelob's offspring are, to her, what she likely was next to Ungoliant. And Smaug would look like a baby next to Glaurung, the so-called "father of the dragons". Weaker, lesser beings or sires in the cases of Shelob and Smaug, but still *very* dangerous. Especially to someone like a Hobbit. Which, to me, hints that there *had* to have been some divine intervention, like with the destruction of the Ring, during Sam's fight with her, that enabled him to hit the right place, which, coupled with Sting, and its ancient, magical properties, allowed for him to defeat her.
As for the Balrog, it was one of the few, remaining Balrogs of the First Age that had gone into hiding, meaning that it had a greater power to it. Now, I know I said earlier that Shelob isn't a pushover, and in most circumstances *wouldn't* be, but next to the Balrog, she *is* a pushover that the Balrog would easily defeat, and, only one, such as Gandalf, could have ever hoped to defeat it. It truly was a foe that was beyond any of the rest of the Fellowship, or anyone else in Middle Earth, save for Galadriel, Glorfindel or (maybe) Elrond.
She wasn't killed, just wounded. And Sam didn't stab her - he just held the sword upright. It even says no power could have stabbed her except for her own strength driving down.
@@michaelnewsham1412 But it still stabbed into her, without her weight crushing him. Shouldn't his body have given before her hide?
Shelob did have Children, the spiders of Mirkwood are her children
Addercot and Tomnoddy?
@@dudethebagman haha 😄 maybe, they did respond to these names when Bilbo said them 😂
That's what he said
How did ordinary spiders mate with them? Be like a minnow matting with a great white.
U just need the sperm thats it
Many spiders are like this where the female is many times larger than the male.
That's like most women Ive hooked up with
@@Theyadayada aaayo
Fish don’t reproduce via the same methods. They lay eggs which a male then comes and fertilizes he doesn’t mate with the female Spiders make egg sacs full of eggs. Males would fertilize that if allowed
Sting wasn't a hobbit sword. It was an Elvish sword in the possession of a hobbit.
Actually, Sting was an Elvish 𝘥𝘢𝘨𝘨𝘦𝘳 in the possession of a Hobbit. It's just that because of his stature, Sting made an excellent short-sword for Bilbo.
@@AlexavierMcConnor81 That is true.
She watched the path of Cirith Unghol and he thought he needed not take care of enemies entering Mordor via this route.
Ungoliant was a very Lovecraftian type of creature. She also reminds me of one of those creatures from Stephen King's "The Mist".
How about we don't give credit to Lovecraft for concepts he did not invent 😏
Dude has Arachnophobia XD. Sauron saw Shelob and went 'Nope, Nope Nope. FUCK THAT THING!"
Can one truly kill ancient evil? Probably not. I'm pretty sure Shelob is still alive, but injured. However, it is likely that after a long period of time and feasting, she'll likely recover from her wounds, but learn an important lesson and be more cautious and stealthier.
what would she feast on tho if Mordor fell
@@atabreh She didn't lose all her legs. If nothing passed through there anymore she may have simply found another dark part of the world to inhabit and other things to feed on.
@@Flaris legit
@@Flaristhe problem with that is shed have to leave her lair, and doing so she’d draw attention with her huge size out in the open…not to mention the sun would be unbearably strong on her given she hates light and it would be worse with the darkness leaving Mordor…I imagine with frodo being the sol survivor to ever encounter her he’d have made people aware of the danger that was causing problems up near the pass of Minas morgul…so I imagine humans elves and dwarves would either draw a huge army to go and make sure she was killed themselves…or at the very least warn everyone to stay away from her…she wouldn’t get good meals ever again and die…my point is, she’s dying regardless…
Sauron: hey, Morgoth was nearly killed by Ungoliant by letting her be involved. Im not gonna make the same mistake with Shelob.
Why Didn't Sauron Interfere with Shelob? Well maybe she just not his kink
Ungoliant's origins is just as mysterious as her disappearance. It wasn't confirmed that she consumed herself or even died. She could be slumbering or went to a whole other world
Imagine a spider the size of a two story building with huge horns covered in spikes.. Imagine it now. And now imagine it being almost killed by a gardener.
As we saw in the films shelob was bested by a hobbit of all things, sure Sauron probably didn't know but that kind of explains the power of Shelob. She wasn't magical or had any void powers like her mother, so chances are Sauron didn't really see her as anything other than a minor annoyance at worst.
Sauron didn't really care about his troops, so sending troops under the pass with the understanding that some may be taken by a giant spider who in fact could be killed easily if she attacked an army head on really wouldn't phase him. Not to mention just the sheer amount of orcs he had at his disposal you can see just how little of a difference shelob actually makes.
She guarded the pass of Cirith Ungol.
Awesome vid! 🙌🏾
I guess Sauron wasn't a butt man so he swiped left on Shelob.
*Good video* but a bit fast & lose with some facts: i.e. Nobody actually knows what Ungoliant was. Also, it was only rumored she devoured herself but once again, nobody knows what exactly happened to her. Also also Ungoliant didn’t attack Melkor in self defense because he was trying to “rid” himself of her. Lastly: Melian was a Maiar and she most definitely was not sterile.
Like I said, good video but a few of the “facts” are not accurate with Tolkien’s Lore. (Can you re-edit the inaccuracies so this video is solid with Tolkien’s writing?) I really do enjoy your uploads. Cheers and thank you.
This is a content farm channel. Its written by a script bot, voiced by a voice bot, and the images used were all ai generated.
This is a content farm channel. Its written by a script bot, voiced by a voice bot, and the images used were all ai generated.
Tolkien wrote that Sauron called her his cat, "though she owned him not." I think that was a mistake. He probably meant to write "though he owned her not."
Or he was a cat lover and recognised the true nature of the relationship
Clearly, he understood cats. Cats own their humans not the other way around.
Cats dont have owners they have staff 😄
Trust me Tolkien hated cats and referring them as "the fawna of Mordor"
Archaic meaning of 'owned'. It means 'acknowledge'. "She owned him not" means "She didn't recognize him as her master".
If Shelob has that location occupied then Shelob has the path blocked. Toss in some orcs to feed her fed and increase security.
Without Orcs to feed on and sauron's dominion having fallen, the best bet would be that Shelob had to hunt for her food, and eventually may have been killed.
Or, she devoured herself like her mother. Could have gone into deep hiding and slumber, never to wake again.
I sort of wonder if Shadow of War was ever canon to the movies that Shelob had a “human” form to her though I would also guess that all the mysticism we saw in the game would be more related to Ungoliant.
Just need to say ungoliant and shelob alike is a Evil sprit that took the form of a spider not sure what book it said
We dont know Ungoliant descended from the void. Possibility she could be a cration from melkors discord in the song.
Melian was an ainur and she had a child.
As powerful as Shelob was, she kept to Cirith Ungol. Obviously she knew venturing forth through Mordor would not be good for her survival.
Wai wai wai wai wait... 3:34 "All Ainur are sterile"? For real? Have you heard about a certain Luthien, DAUGHTER of a certain Maia Melian? How did that came to be then?
They could not reprocreate with other Ainur, but they can with other creatures. Like indeed Melian and Thingol or Ungoliant and the lesser spider creatures
It's absolutely true. Melian is the only exception. Actually, I thought of saying it briefly, but I didn't want to confuse those who don't know by adding this phenomenon, which only appears in one person, to the video. After all, none of them except Melian can have children.
@@middleearthtales did any of the others even try?
@@middleearthtalesThat’s just not true. Just because there’s no ‘record’ of it doesn’t make it untrue. The dragons were ainur, and they bred.
@@derekmiller6091 Tolkien clearly stated that Melian was an outstanding case, an exception. See Morgoth's Ring. Dragons do not display any features that are specific for Ainur.
Thanks for your video
Even dark lords hate bugs. Especially giant ones.
So do all, who live to see such times
Hold on you said shelobs mother went off in some secret place then next shes ate herself
The text explicitly states that Sauron knew she was there and found her useful.
Sauron as a Maiar likely appreciated Shelob, daughter of another Maiar, Ungoliant, to be a strong bulwark against invasion.
Ungoliant is not said to be a Maiar nor is referenced as one. She is not of Iru and thus not the same being or lineage of beings that are the Maiar and Valar.
@@christianstout6390
All beings are of Eru, and all were created good. Elrond mentions this dynamic in the Lord of the Rings.
The Valar are explicitly named, and she is not named among them.
The text is likewise explicit in saying, “She descended from the darkness” that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe and that in the beginning she was one of those he corrupted to his service. (Silmarillion, Chapter 8: The Darkening of Valinor)
Thus, logically and consistent with the Ainulindale, she must be a Maia for the only orders of being revealed are Iluvatar Himself and the Ainur. Since she is not named as one of the Valar, that leaves only the Maiar.
The same must be said of Tom Bombadil.
th-cam.com/video/8QmtTd_rdu8/w-d-xo.html
Nope, Ungoliant came from the darkness itself and was not corrupted by Melkor. Some theories suggest that TB is an avatar of Eru himself. Gandalf would recognise him as a fellow Maia.
@@derekmiller6091
There are no other orders of being mentioned other than Valar and Maiar to which Shelob could belong. See the reference I provided.
And Gandalf explicitly mentioned that he would go hang out with Bombadil toward the end of the Lord of the Rings, which is very consistent with my internally consistent logic.
she was a useful Guard Dog that happened to not be his actual pet
Why interfere?! I mean shelob is like your neighbors dog you dont like yet it protect that side of the fence, so you only have to worried about your front door. Sauron knew that hes not stupid 😂😂😂😂
Sauron could have had her removed at any time if sam alone was too much of a battle
How do these spiders breed?
Because he wasn’t fucking stupid.
Good video
I think Sauron couldn’t control Shelob or Ungoliant just like he couldn’t control the balrog. It was more trouble than it was worth and I don’t think Sauron wanted that smoke. Perhaps the spiders also served a purpose in their present capacity. This is my opinion.
Because no one would be crazy enough going through the tunnels, neither would Frodo or Sam if they had known the danger that were lurking there. They went there because of the trap set up by Gollum, even he didn’t think the manage to get through alive. They only did because of the items given to them, some would call that plot armour, which there are oceans off in LOTR. In fact Gollum is the biggest plot armour because without Gollum they never would have found a way in or getting the ring destroyed
Shelob an offspring of Ungoliant that were some sort of spirit of unknown origin the spider like body where her Fana, she is speculated to be everything from Ainur to a spirit from the dark void surrounding Arda it could even be a deliberate creation of Eru or the consequence of Melkor part of the song, putting her in the same unknown origin as the nameless things and the watcher in the water. It’s clear neither of these were beast corrupted by Melkor once he ascended down on Arda as they were there before the Valar and Maiar, just as is the case with Tom Bombadil. However Shelob was a creation of Ungoliant and those not a a spirit as such.
Such a stupied word plot armour is
@@D.p12360 It’s just a word for when a writer had put a given individual into a situation they couldn’t realistically and objectively get themselves out off, but then invent ability, person or object that help them out of said situation.
@@mikni4069 its all fiction none of it is realistic lol no plot no film no book plot armour is such a silly word
@@D.p12360 it’s used in more realistic genres as well and as seen with other writers within the genre they don’t feel like protecting key individuals when brought into hopeless situations, so kill them off when it happens. This rarely happens in JRRT books where he let them survive because he already decided beforehand and the effect of that is they need to gain ability, dumb luck, tools etc. to survive some of them on the brink of being a Mary Sue.
I mean how would that even work?, aren't they a different species?
but Melkor afraid Ungoliant because she already ate the Tree of Valinor,right?
Shelob was a good kitty
where the hell ungoliant went? she just suddenly dipped?
0:10 Wrong af.
It's correct actually 👍Melkor did try to run away from her with silmarils, and then attacked him...what is wrong there dude?🤷♂️
@@Mr.Feanor Listen to what he says. You answered your own question.
@@mist3rmaniac Don't worry, I did...he said that,correctly, I think you need to listen it again, or whatever, think what you want🤦♂️👍
@@Mr.Feanor The video states that she learned Melkor intended to do away with her. But what actually happened was she demanded the Silmarils and he said no, then the fight started. What do you not get? I time stamped what to listen to that was wrong. Now I wrote it out and also what actually started the fight between them so you can see how they are two different reasons
@@mist3rmaniac No...he said that she saw that he wanted to get RID OF HER, to LEAVE with the silmarils, and that's when she attacked him, as he said in the video, so it's true, so he wasn't wrong buddy🤣🤦♂️
The first famle spider with a beard 😂😂😂😂
Why? Because spiders are f'n disgusting. Ain't nobody got time for that
Because she was his pet when he was 3 yrs old
What do you mean Interfere??
I heard that elves are only vegetarian in lotr, is that true? Can we get a video on the diet of each race? Thanks and keep it up!!
Then why do elves love hunting? They’re not killing animals for jollies!
Shelob ...😀❤️
Sauron may may referred to Shelob as his "cat".. due to a fruitless and impossible arrogant desire for control.
His only acknowledgement of the limits of his power was that he would never to be a suitable companion for a cat and that a cat would never abide in his presence.. 😉
Thought this would be a good listen till I heard the AI voice.
Do we understand that Sauron was a lord of monsters
The text of the book answers this question. Read the book!
Sexy Shelob is Canon
I like shadow of mordors take on shelob
You're not a dragon bro
UNGOLIANT was hot.
I'm calling it before I watch the whole vid. Basically have you ever been presented with a fight that you KNOW will absolutely wreck you!! You believe in the win but you know the win will be soooo painful and the recovery soooo long you simply NOPE out!! I don't need the drama, the damage and shelob ain't a thing really to me!? I mean we keep our distance and there is respect so why trade a good situation for a bad one!? Now I will watch the video.
It would make sense that Shelob would be a threat to Sauron just like her mother was to Morgoth
That sounds logical. If Shelob was less powerful than Ungoliant, Sauron was also less powerful than Melkor/Morgoth and may have been as vulnerable to Shelob as Melkor was to Ungoliant. Sauron lacking a large force of Balrogs like his master commanded, would most likely call upon the Ringwraiths to assist him if Shelob was ever overcoming him in a direct confrontation.
Shelob lost to a hobbit bro
No it wouldnt. While Melkor spend much of his power in shaping the world and his servants, Sauron kept most of his power for himself. Melkor kept getting weaker while Sauron grew stronger. In the end Sauron would be more powerful than Melkor i bet.
@@origami83 not to forget how much power Ungoliant had when she attacked Morgoth after eating light from those 2 tree's
Sauron would have no personal reason to fear her at all. Sauron is leagues above her. Tolkien mentions that the reason why Shelob didnt serve Sauron was because Sauron was Melkors servant whom Shelob hated due to the treachery between Melkor and her mother
Why do you leave long pauses between sentences its odd 😂
Why are we in a hurry. :) I'm actually doing it to give the viewer some time to look at the visual at that moment.
It’s an AI voice.
Shelob was the Daughter of Ungoliant, an angelic spirit powerful enough to almost Kill Melkor/Morgoth. Best leave it alone…
This is making me think of that terrible game "the war of Mardor" which shelob was in that as a woman and was turned by sauron! for ages i thought that was cannon but it's not!
Why does alwmost every youtube video has someone who sounds like those AI voices -.-* annoying
It almost sounds like Sauron almost felt some amount of affection to Shelob. His boss and her mom go way back after all.
Have you ever actually read Tolkien’s writings? Ungoliant tried to kill Melkor. Also, Shelob is seen as useful by Sauron. There is no affection for the offspring of a creature who attempted to merk his former boss.
@@GreatGreebo Sauron has no affection for anyone period. But there are things that he doesn't like, and therefore things that he likes. He definitely likes Shelob more than elves, so he leaves her alone and sends her some food once in a while. That's definitely way more than orcs get.
@@BIGESTbladeYes, he occasionally sent prisoner's to her and didn't 'begrudge her an orc or two, as he had those in plenty'. I think the book had a line similar to that.(Has been a while since I read it).
I always assumed that she survived Sam's attack. But the 4th age would not have been a happy place for Shelob. And as men cleaned out Mordor to make it habitable, no doubt they encountered Shelob, and then she would have been killed.
Wtf is this AI?
The ai voice kills this for me. Gotta put this channel on the "do not reccomend" list.
AI slop, prolly didnt even write the script.
What in the ai nonsense
There’s no way she was there when Minas Ithil was there. Anarion and his descendants would have been aware and dealt with her.
Cuz ew… 🤢
There is another theory which is seldom discussed. Remember that Ungoliant got bigger the more she ate. She became massive upon devouring the light of the two trees. When the Balrogs drove her off as a group, she went about her existence as before, but never again would she find such rich food. Slowly but surely she would grow smaller and smaller, returning to her original size. Do you see where I'm going with this? It would fit with the imagery the fancy words that stated far in the East she ate herself. Where Shelob made her abode, is in the East, at least as far as those of the West are concerned. It is far in the East from where Ungoliant made her abode after fleeing the Balrogs. For all intents and purposes Shelob has all the powers of Ungoliant. I'm not sure why this video infers that she doesn't. Nothing of Ungoliant's original abilities are missing in the lair of Shelob. Tolkien often changed his mind and went back to ideas again and again. I submit that Shelob and Ungoliant are the same spiritual entity, that she imbued herself into the body of one of her offspring as her previous, shrinking (and wounded by Balrog weapons) body eventually failed. Ungoliant/Shelob is the same, immortal creature.
she can’t cast the unlight which is one of ungoliants staples for moving around.Shelob was just stealthy even before devouring the nectar of the two trees ungoliant could weave unlight around what she choose.
@@Ross1221-0 We don't know that she can't cast the unlight because in the Lord of the Rings we see her only in her caves. She has no need to cast it there. Her cave itself is described as a darkness in places that wasn't normal darkness. I'll get you the exact passage when I'm not at work. :)
gh 😊 Y Cy y
AI voice is easy to spot. Common names are mispronounced despite being said correctly by many people many times. LAZY!!!!!
Strongest of all the spiders but got destroyed by a hobbit with a small sword 😂
She lived actually. Hurt and pissed, but alive.
Genuinely i dont think sauron at full power would fuck with Shelob, sauron is strong, but everyone feels fear, and a big damn spider like that makes EVERYONE fuckin scared lmfao
Not sauron. He'd smack her with his baton sending her flying. She lost to Sam. She'd definitely lose to Sauron.
Shelob is not anything close to her mother he’d deal with her pretty easily
Shelob can’t cast unlight or anything like that so i think she is immensely weaker than ungoliant.
@@younglove3362 💯
This AI interpretation of shelob is absolute garbage