One thing I have always liked about the constellation class is how it is it described. Overworked, under maintenanced, and it survived. That's a tough little ship.
My guess is all the original Constellation-class bridges were identical to the refit Enterprises. Later, some were replaced with Stargazer-type, then even later, to the Enterprise-C and TNG Battle Bridge.
Underrated channel. Thanks for this analysis. Thoroughly enjoyed this thoughtful visual tour down memory lane through one of my favorite science fiction universes.
I love these videos. Funny thing is, I’ve long thought the Hathaway’s bridge aka the second version of the E-D’s battle bridge was new and not a reuse of the original set pieces. They kept the battle bridge new parts, but went from there. It was also used as a lab in the episode of TNG that gave Kel’Ahr (?) Worf’s love interest. I love these videos given that so much doesn’t fit between the photographic models and the sets. The E-E bridge as the movies went on, the Grissom’s bridge, Bozeman’s. DS9 with the promenade and Quark’s bar. The E-C is interesting, it looks like it would fit, but with the turbo lifts?
On the Stargazer. The one "turbo lift" wasn't actually a turbo lift. In "The Battle". You can clearly see Worf and Geordi come around onto the Stargazer's Bridge. Instead of stepping onto the bridge from a turbo lift. Only way there could be a turbo lift is if it was actually hidden behind the bridge. Which would line up with the bump at the back.
I think it is fun to think about such things. No further reason need be given. However, if you need one, Kirk expressed it pretty well when he said, "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play."
I've always considered the Trek TMP bridge sets as modular. In ST: Bridge Commander, you can choose any modded bridge you want. Though, I do understand your logic. Fun video, thanks for sharing! :)
The idea of modular designs in starships does make sense, more sense than a bridge having only a single access point (turbolifts backing up as people come up would be silly after all). Granted the intuitive design and way things work is just to explain something lightly enough so that everyone moves on, but if you can suspend your disbelief there, it's fine. We've seen the Enterprise D with numerous bridges and minor changes over it's seven seasons, movie, and cameos so it's easy to accept bridge modules. In the case of the Stargazer, I personally chose to believe that the bridge was very basic since most of the exploration and science work happened below decks, and we never really saw those work areas. They are more likely to have that filled in and more attractive look to them. The bridge was an operations center. Yes, it's sparse compared to the Enterprise D, but the Stargazer was a VERY old ship, and the bridge aesthetic may have just been a simplistic reduction from the Kirk era ships as more things automated. Trends come and go. The Picard of that era may not have enjoyed all the noises and activity distracting him. May have had nothing to do with him. The Hathaway I justify differently. She was an 80 year old decommissioned ship. Odds are, like we saw in later seasons, she was parted out from her shipyard and given a very rudimentary bridge in the event you needed one on the hulk. There was no need to swap it out just for the exercise, and given how under dog the Federation wanted the study to be, even preferred to have that sort of bridge.
I've always loved the little Constellation class. Well little in comparison to everything else it was ever shown on screen with. But I'll bet these were a real workhorse class before the excelsior line really got fully spun up. Aesthetically it's always been one of my favorite ships.
One possible addendum: in Peak Performance, there is another chair on the port side of the bridge, with what looks like the edge of a console (visible around 11 minutes in, when the crew first enter the bridge). It could be a very weirdly-placed helm console.
I agree with your assessment of bridge design... considering the time frame these were active, I would have expected bridges comparable to Constitution II or Enterprise Class types. Though I would have preferred 2 turbo lifts as well, never liked the 1 turbolift designs much. One minor gripe/issue with both this video and the one covering the later Enterprise bridges videos is that you don't really show them long enough. I would have liked a tour and a 360 walk around of each, (proposed one for this), and for each of the E-A in V, E-A and Ex in VI, and the E-B in Generations.
Raises the question what comes first the set design or the model design. I'm going to guess they do the set first because the special effects and models are done after. All the same I've always loved the look of the Constellation Class, I think it's my favorite ship design after the Constitution. It just looks like a deep space, long range exploratory vessel. I can imagine the Stargazer at the far reaches of Federation Space, it's not a cruise ship like the Galaxy class and not a huge Heavy Cruiser like the Sovereign.
Back when I first watched that episode, and every viewing since, my head-cannon assumption was that the Hathaway bridge was just a stripped down, bare bones module used to get old hulks from A to B. No need for anything fancy.
Your solution works best for the Hathaway since it's supposed to be an older ship that was retired by the time of TNG. Personally, I think the worst thing the production team did for TNG, was to simply re-use the Ent-D's battle bridge, and would go about modifying all its other uses to more represent different bridges from different ships.
And the D's battle bridge was just the movie bridge re-dressed. But yeah, I always thought it was weird that all non-Galaxy class Starfleet bridges looked just like the 1701-A's bridge. The entire TNG-era design ethic got thrown out the airlock whenever they met another Federation ship.
@@tvdan1043 To be fair, the Galaxy was _the_ newest ship in the fleet at the time. Pretty much everything else in the fleet was from Kirk's era or Picard's early service era at the latest. Even the uniforms in S1 of TNG were fairly new, having only been in use for about a decade. The maroon uniforms from the TOS movies were still in use when Wesley Crusher was born in 2348 and may have still been in use when Jack Crusher died 7 years later, in 2355. TNG only takes place around 10 years after that.
The Hathaway bridge was just weird. Why would the XO have a control console the same as the Enterprise CONN with the egg cartons stuck on the front of it?
I always felt it was odd that there was only one way to enter or leave the bridge. What are they going to do when power fails and the turbo lifts are unavailable?
You are correct.. However, as always, back then it was always about budget. What you showed at the end, is what we SHOULD have gotten. These days, the attitude is "budget be damned, it must look cavernous, cinematic, and everything must be shiny" so we get the, frankly, ugly sets seen on the new shows..replete with tons of wasted space, lighting of questionable utility, smooth, shiny, reflective surfaces EVERYWHERE, no carpeting, and goddamn windows on the bridge. I miss the old days, when set designers were sensible.
Going by my Starship Volumetrics work, the Constellations ought to be roughly three times the volume of a TOS Constitution compared to an Excelsior at four times. Yet, despite this, it seems they had half the bridge or less. Good eye picking that up. (I've also lately been bothered that Picard's Stargazer seems never to have gotten even a first round of upgrades. How many other ships were floating around in 2360 sporting LCARS v.2280?)
It’s implied that the Stargazer was operating on the fringes of federation territory and probably didn’t get in for full on maintenance very often. Chances are at some point they would have had to order the ship back to the core worlds to do the work ( or just replace the module as it’s implied Starfleet ships use modular parts to make upgrades simple ) more then likely had the stargazer not been critically damaged it probably would have gotten the upgrade as part of its repair/upgrade
I know it’s not a standard Trek idea, but I believe the Bridge moved to the interior and the dome is a sensor bell. Does this idea fit with all Trekkers sources? No. Does it actually make sense? Yes.
I don’t believe there is an onscreen description of crew size. The lack of a secondary hull implies a smaller ship with smaller crew. A successor to the Saladin/Hermes class. There is no reason to believe she was a replacement for the Excellsior which means she would be a smaller stablemate.
The bridge from the wrath of Khan was a redress of the Enterprise bridge, which got reused for a good number of Starship bridges, including the Enterprise D’s Battle Bridge.
Personally I think either A: The bridge in this rendering is scaled too large compared to the ship or B: It's set too high in the ship and should be down a level on the same plane as the three portholes/lights.
@@WeTravelbyNight Feel free to correct me, but my impression was that moving the bridge crew to the Battle Bridge and splitting the Enterprise before a fight was going to be a regular part of the show. But because it slowed down the story in the first episode, they decided not to do that. That's why the Battle Bridge appeared only once in the first season. Then the set was damaged while it was stored outside. So they built a new "battle bridge" for TNG and a new bridge for Enterprise-A (which doubled as the Excelsior). The TNG set was then used any time they needed another starship bridge, Federation or otherwise, or any other interior room. Its only use as the Battle Bridge was in Best of Both Worlds Part 2. Now, if a Constellation class ship was going to be a show's hero ship, then it would get its own set. But one or two eps? No.
it amazes me that paramount knew star trek was their top syndicated show, yet they reused set pieces like this so obviously.. it shatters immersion and just comes off as really lazy.
At the times both those ships were seen in episodes TNG was still a new show without a huge budget. so the bridges were redresses of existing bridges mainly the Movie bridge for star gazer and the same movie bridge just redressed from the battle bridge. But in honesty it really didn't matter what design of a bridge they used as the Constellation class was an ugly design that looked exactly what it was. parts taken from the refits molds thrown together to make a ship that looked like something from the movie era. As originally the refit Enterprise was to be used as the Stargazer How ever Gene wanted something new that had not been seen before. so working on a time restriction to get a model built in time for the episode they took the molds from the refit as well as a couple of the Amt model kits that were on the market at that time and kitbashed the Constellation class. a fun fact on how it got it's Name Constellation class the already filmed the live action scenes for the episode in which Laforge tells Picard a Constitution class starship was coming in as they had intended o use the refit model as Stargazer. so to line up with Burton's lips they dubbed over Constellation class. how ever if you watch Burton's lips closely you can see he actually says Constitution class. but as I said the class it's self is a horribly ugly design. when compared to the ship classes we saw before it The Refit Enterprise, the Reliant, and the Excelsior with their sleep lines and graceful hulls the Constellation is bulky, chunky, and no graceful lines of any kind. it truly was a ship out of place compared to the other StarFleet vessel's. to quote a Klingon from the Trouble with Tribble's. The Constellation class was designed like a garbage scow aka a sagging old rust bucket.
I disagree. I think the Constellation was a perfect ship for its time and for what it was designed to do. Sure it was probably a 50 to 100 year old design but it was a real workhorse and still being used when Picard started out in starfleet and that was the whole point of it. That he had started in this workhorse of a ship and then commands a luxury liner compared to it but yet he still mises the Stargazer.
You spend a quarter of the video arguing why theories and hypotheticals about a fictional series is fine, which I agree with.. However you should really try not to go on a random tangent from the stated goal of the video when working with such a short timeframe.. Four minutes twenty is already a bit too short to go in depth with on any given topic, and it wasn’t until one minute twenty five before you start discussing the Stargazer and the Hathaway. perhaps you can invest a little more time into the topics, as People will watch a well reasoned and thought out video regardless if it is longer. Some food for thought.
To paraphrase Paul Cornell: wrangling decades of contradictions into a plausible continuity is one of the ways that fans show their love ♥.
Hence why nu-Trek is so maddening.
Or drive themselves nuts.
One thing I have always liked about the constellation class is how it is it described.
Overworked, under maintenanced, and it survived. That's a tough little ship.
My guess is all the original Constellation-class bridges were identical to the refit Enterprises.
Later, some were replaced with Stargazer-type, then even later, to the Enterprise-C and TNG Battle Bridge.
Underrated channel. Thanks for this analysis. Thoroughly enjoyed this thoughtful visual tour down memory lane through one of my favorite science fiction universes.
I love these videos. Funny thing is, I’ve long thought the Hathaway’s bridge aka the second version of the E-D’s battle bridge was new and not a reuse of the original set pieces. They kept the battle bridge new parts, but went from there. It was also used as a lab in the episode of TNG that gave Kel’Ahr (?) Worf’s love interest.
I love these videos given that so much doesn’t fit between the photographic models and the sets. The E-E bridge as the movies went on, the Grissom’s bridge, Bozeman’s. DS9 with the promenade and Quark’s bar. The E-C is interesting, it looks like it would fit, but with the turbo lifts?
On the Stargazer. The one "turbo lift" wasn't actually a turbo lift. In "The Battle". You can clearly see Worf and Geordi come around onto the Stargazer's Bridge. Instead of stepping onto the bridge from a turbo lift. Only way there could be a turbo lift is if it was actually hidden behind the bridge. Which would line up with the bump at the back.
I think it is fun to think about such things. No further reason need be given. However, if you need one, Kirk expressed it pretty well when he said, "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play."
I've always considered the Trek TMP bridge sets as modular. In ST: Bridge Commander, you can choose any modded bridge you want. Though, I do understand your logic. Fun video, thanks for sharing! :)
That 3rd bridge was also used in the maranda class ship USS Reliant in Star Trek 2
The idea of modular designs in starships does make sense, more sense than a bridge having only a single access point (turbolifts backing up as people come up would be silly after all). Granted the intuitive design and way things work is just to explain something lightly enough so that everyone moves on, but if you can suspend your disbelief there, it's fine. We've seen the Enterprise D with numerous bridges and minor changes over it's seven seasons, movie, and cameos so it's easy to accept bridge modules. In the case of the Stargazer, I personally chose to believe that the bridge was very basic since most of the exploration and science work happened below decks, and we never really saw those work areas. They are more likely to have that filled in and more attractive look to them. The bridge was an operations center. Yes, it's sparse compared to the Enterprise D, but the Stargazer was a VERY old ship, and the bridge aesthetic may have just been a simplistic reduction from the Kirk era ships as more things automated. Trends come and go. The Picard of that era may not have enjoyed all the noises and activity distracting him. May have had nothing to do with him.
The Hathaway I justify differently. She was an 80 year old decommissioned ship. Odds are, like we saw in later seasons, she was parted out from her shipyard and given a very rudimentary bridge in the event you needed one on the hulk. There was no need to swap it out just for the exercise, and given how under dog the Federation wanted the study to be, even preferred to have that sort of bridge.
Actually I prefer the Hathaway's Bridge much better🤨🖖🏼👽!
I've always loved the little Constellation class. Well little in comparison to everything else it was ever shown on screen with. But I'll bet these were a real workhorse class before the excelsior line really got fully spun up. Aesthetically it's always been one of my favorite ships.
I've been obsessed with the Constellation class since I was a kid
I would point out, examining such inconsistencies helps an author avoid making such mistakes in their future writing.
Lovely analysis and speculations, as always.
One possible addendum: in Peak Performance, there is another chair on the port side of the bridge, with what looks like the edge of a console (visible around 11 minutes in, when the crew first enter the bridge). It could be a very weirdly-placed helm console.
I agree with your assessment of bridge design... considering the time frame these were active, I would have expected bridges comparable to Constitution II or Enterprise Class types. Though I would have preferred 2 turbo lifts as well, never liked the 1 turbolift designs much.
One minor gripe/issue with both this video and the one covering the later Enterprise bridges videos is that you don't really show them long enough. I would have liked a tour and a 360 walk around of each, (proposed one for this), and for each of the E-A in V, E-A and Ex in VI, and the E-B in Generations.
Raises the question what comes first the set design or the model design. I'm going to guess they do the set first because the special effects and models are done after.
All the same I've always loved the look of the Constellation Class, I think it's my favorite ship design after the Constitution. It just looks like a deep space, long range exploratory vessel. I can imagine the Stargazer at the far reaches of Federation Space, it's not a cruise ship like the Galaxy class and not a huge Heavy Cruiser like the Sovereign.
Back when I first watched that episode, and every viewing since, my head-cannon assumption was that the Hathaway bridge was just a stripped down, bare bones module used to get old hulks from A to B. No need for anything fancy.
Fantastic well done.
Your solution works best for the Hathaway since it's supposed to be an older ship that was retired by the time of TNG.
Personally, I think the worst thing the production team did for TNG, was to simply re-use the Ent-D's battle bridge, and would go about modifying all its other uses to more represent different bridges from different ships.
And the D's battle bridge was just the movie bridge re-dressed. But yeah, I always thought it was weird that all non-Galaxy class Starfleet bridges looked just like the 1701-A's bridge. The entire TNG-era design ethic got thrown out the airlock whenever they met another Federation ship.
@@tvdan1043
To be fair, the Galaxy was _the_ newest ship in the fleet at the time. Pretty much everything else in the fleet was from Kirk's era or Picard's early service era at the latest. Even the uniforms in S1 of TNG were fairly new, having only been in use for about a decade. The maroon uniforms from the TOS movies were still in use when Wesley Crusher was born in 2348 and may have still been in use when Jack Crusher died 7 years later, in 2355. TNG only takes place around 10 years after that.
I actually prefer the Stargazer bridge to the Hathaway.
We actually saw three of the class in TNG. Shame. Beautiful ship.
The Hathaway bridge was just weird. Why would the XO have a control console the same as the Enterprise CONN with the egg cartons stuck on the front of it?
I always felt it was odd that there was only one way to enter or leave the bridge. What are they going to do when power fails and the turbo lifts are unavailable?
So very cool video
You are correct..
However, as always, back then it was always about budget. What you showed at the end, is what we SHOULD have gotten.
These days, the attitude is "budget be damned, it must look cavernous, cinematic, and everything must be shiny" so we get the, frankly, ugly sets seen on the new shows..replete with tons of wasted space, lighting of questionable utility, smooth, shiny, reflective surfaces EVERYWHERE, no carpeting, and goddamn windows on the bridge.
I miss the old days, when set designers were sensible.
Going by my Starship Volumetrics work, the Constellations ought to be roughly three times the volume of a TOS Constitution compared to an Excelsior at four times. Yet, despite this, it seems they had half the bridge or less. Good eye picking that up.
(I've also lately been bothered that Picard's Stargazer seems never to have gotten even a first round of upgrades. How many other ships were floating around in 2360 sporting LCARS v.2280?)
It’s implied that the Stargazer was operating on the fringes of federation territory and probably didn’t get in for full on maintenance very often. Chances are at some point they would have had to order the ship back to the core worlds to do the work ( or just replace the module as it’s implied Starfleet ships use modular parts to make upgrades simple ) more then likely had the stargazer not been critically damaged it probably would have gotten the upgrade as part of its repair/upgrade
Chief Engineer Scott would probably respond to your criticisms with "up your shaft."
I, on the other hand, appreciate your attention to detail.
For ye old algorithm 👊
I know it’s not a standard Trek idea, but I believe the Bridge moved to the interior and the dome is a sensor bell. Does this idea fit with all Trekkers sources? No. Does it actually make sense? Yes.
I don’t believe there is an onscreen description of crew size. The lack of a secondary hull implies a smaller ship with smaller crew. A successor to the Saladin/Hermes class. There is no reason to believe she was a replacement for the Excellsior which means she would be a smaller stablemate.
I believed, from what I had read, it was the bridge from The Wrath of Khan.
The bridge from the wrath of Khan was a redress of the Enterprise bridge, which got reused for a good number of Starship bridges, including the Enterprise D’s Battle Bridge.
I think a enterprise A st6 bridge would work
I think the Hathaway had the same bridge as the stargazer then when she was decommissioned they change the bridge for training
Personally I think either A: The bridge in this rendering is scaled too large compared to the ship or B: It's set too high in the ship and should be down a level on the same plane as the three portholes/lights.
Interesting, but anything other than a redress of the battle bridge was never going to happen.
Too true, I'm afraid - alas.
@@WeTravelbyNight Feel free to correct me, but my impression was that moving the bridge crew to the Battle Bridge and splitting the Enterprise before a fight was going to be a regular part of the show. But because it slowed down the story in the first episode, they decided not to do that. That's why the Battle Bridge appeared only once in the first season. Then the set was damaged while it was stored outside. So they built a new "battle bridge" for TNG and a new bridge for Enterprise-A (which doubled as the Excelsior). The TNG set was then used any time they needed another starship bridge, Federation or otherwise, or any other interior room. Its only use as the Battle Bridge was in Best of Both Worlds Part 2.
Now, if a Constellation class ship was going to be a show's hero ship, then it would get its own set. But one or two eps? No.
it amazes me that paramount knew star trek was their top syndicated show, yet they reused set pieces like this so obviously.. it shatters immersion and just comes off as really lazy.
At the times both those ships were seen in episodes TNG was still a new show without a huge budget. so the bridges were redresses of existing bridges mainly the Movie bridge for star gazer and the same movie bridge just redressed from the battle bridge. But in honesty it really didn't matter what design of a bridge they used as the Constellation class was an ugly design that looked exactly what it was. parts taken from the refits molds thrown together to make a ship that looked like something from the movie era. As originally the refit Enterprise was to be used as the Stargazer How ever Gene wanted something new that had not been seen before. so working on a time restriction to get a model built in time for the episode they took the molds from the refit as well as a couple of the Amt model kits that were on the market at that time and kitbashed the Constellation class. a fun fact on how it got it's Name Constellation class the already filmed the live action scenes for the episode in which Laforge tells Picard a Constitution class starship was coming in as they had intended o use the refit model as Stargazer. so to line up with Burton's lips they dubbed over Constellation class. how ever if you watch Burton's lips closely you can see he actually says Constitution class.
but as I said the class it's self is a horribly ugly design. when compared to the ship classes we saw before it The Refit Enterprise, the Reliant, and the Excelsior with their sleep lines and graceful hulls the Constellation is bulky, chunky, and no graceful lines of any kind. it truly was a ship out of place compared to the other StarFleet vessel's. to quote a Klingon from the Trouble with Tribble's. The Constellation class was designed like a garbage scow aka a sagging old rust bucket.
I disagree. I think the Constellation was a perfect ship for its time and for what it was designed to do. Sure it was probably a 50 to 100 year old design but it was a real workhorse and still being used when Picard started out in starfleet and that was the whole point of it. That he had started in this workhorse of a ship and then commands a luxury liner compared to it but yet he still mises the Stargazer.
You spend a quarter of the video arguing why theories and hypotheticals about a fictional series is fine, which I agree with..
However you should really try not to go on a random tangent from the stated goal of the video when working with such a short timeframe..
Four minutes twenty is already a bit too short to go in depth with on any given topic, and it wasn’t until one minute twenty five before you start discussing the Stargazer and the Hathaway.
perhaps you can invest a little more time into the topics, as People will watch a well reasoned and thought out video regardless if it is longer.
Some food for thought.
Actually I prefer the Hathaway's bridge much better🤨🖖🏼👽!