curzon176 He was the most relatable of the forsaken. You basically sell your soul thinking your life is going to hedonism to the max and it just turns out you work for a really crappy boss and take to drinking and feeling sorry for yourself.
I agree, i was truly hoping rand's pull on the pattern was going to bring asmodean to his side, give him a true ally and teacher, not just a teacher in shackles ya know?
I wish he'd lived longer. That kind of character dynamic was interesting. Not even necessarily that Rand would redeem him, but just the constant of this guy should be an enemy but has to be an ally and he's cooperating but you have to worry that he'll switch if he gets a better option
I'd love it if you made a video on the snakes and foxes, actually. I know there are some hints to understanding who/what/where they are, but I am struggling to understand it. You help piece everything together so well!
Mason Miller I don’t know who said it but it was a comment I think on one of Nae’Blis’ videos: (paraphrasing) ‘Moiraine understood what you do with forsaken, you don’t take them prisoner, you kill them on the spot’. Albeit Rand had to learn and Moiraine knew this, but time and again the forces of light take the forsaken prisoner instead of excruciating them.
I wonder if the line about Azmodean "shivering" as he considered his "rebirth" was actually Robert Jordan covertly slipping in that Azmodean was sensing a woman channeling but didn't recognize it for what it was.
This was discussed and discarded. Other women were channeling in the Palace, so his POV wouldn't have substituted the term "shiver" for that sensation.
I always got the impression that the murder was supposed to be a big murder mystery, but as folks began guessing and theorizing correctly (all possible options for who the killer could be), it limited RJ's options - essentially why bother going to the effort to write a murder mystery storyline if the reveal had already been guessed. So, rather than writing it, he realized that allowing fans to debate the issue ad nauseam provided them (and him) much more entertainment and engagement with the story. The off-handed reveal so long after the event took place (both in terms of years since publication and storyline in multiple books) was simply a final present to fans to provide a canon solution with a tidy bow, recognizing that fans would be angry if it were never truly resolved.
Actually, it's the opposite. Robert Jordan was going to make it a fairly casual reveal but decided to mess with the fans when he realized they were waaaay more interested than he initially suspected. He knew the answer from the beginning.
Asmodean's death was just so... pointless in the grand scheme of things. There was no subplot that centered around discovering who killed him, none of the characters really cared about that death. So when I was reading the books, when Asmodean died I wondered for a moment about his killer, but since it was never an important question in the story, I simply ignored this "mystery".
When I was reading the books, Graendal was my first thought. However, as I continued reading (even though it was confirmed to me that she killed him) the more it annoyed me that she was the killer. If you really think about it, it was incredibly out of character for her to kill him. She, almost impulsively, wants to completely possess all things she considers to be beautiful or unique. What could possibly be more beautiful and unique as one of, if not *the*, most skilled classical musicians of the Age of Legends? Asmodean was uniquely capable of reproducing all of the most popular music of her time, so it would have been more within her character if she had taken him captive, rather than killing him outright. So, logistically, it made the most sense that it was her, but it was the most out of character option.
I think she would take him for her own if he was not previously a Chosen. I think that sullies her view of him. That being said, it’s still totally out of her character to just randomly kill him. I would expect her to capture him and turn him into the Dark One in an attempt to curry favor.
Nobody deserves the shot in the arm for wheel of time content creators more than you now that the series is upon us. Thank you kindly. Upward and onward.
What made these books fun was the literal decides of fan theories. To come in fresh and just blow through them, or binge them, it takes something away I think.
I don't know why, but this has always illuded me (have read the entire series 4-5 times). Once you said it, it made sense (& maybe I already thought that), but am glad that it was confirmed by you. Have an amazing day.
There's a big problem with this whole narrative. At the time that his death was written, it *was* Taimandred that killed him according to Robert Jordan's notes. Because at the time his death was written, Taim and Demandred were the same person in RJ's notes. In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "People": b) Demandred: Hated/feared/despised Lews Therin. Like Lanfear, he plays for larger stakes than most of the others, who are trying to stake out wordly kingdoms. HE WILL SHOW UP CLAIMING TO BE MAZRIM TAIM. TAKING ADVANTAGE OF RAND'S AMNESTY. In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "Rand": Taim/Demandred showed up, not so much because his party wants Rand free -- though that might be a point in their plans; on the other hand, Rand in the hands of the White Tower, and thus within Mesaana's power, could still cause one hell of a lot of chaos -- but because of learning that the Shaido were moving in. They could not be sure the Aes Sedai could drive off the Shaido, nor that the Shaido would not kill Rand. And a rescued Rand, pissed at the Aes Sedai will really be a source of chaos and disunity. In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "Nynaeve": She does not know that Aginor (Osan'gar) and Balthamel (Aran'gar) were resurrected, the latter as a woman who is now masquerading as Halima, Delana's secretary/companion. She knows that Moghedien was prisoner, of course. Until she is/was informed by Egwene, Siuan or Leane, she thinks Moghedien is still a prisoner. She does not know that Asmodean was a prisoner of Rand, nor, of course, that he was killed by Demandred.
kvlt1349 I think Mazrim Taim and Demandred should be the same person in the TV series, b/c it would give him a significantly greater presence in the story and the revelation of Taim actually being Demandred in disguise would be an amazing twist!
David Emmitt Taim was Demandred before RJ backtracked on it. It left a few loose threads that people pick up on and get confused about, e.g. "so-called Aiel". It caused a whole load of bitter feuding through the fandom for a long while before we finally got confirmation via the notes RJ left for Brandon Sanderson.
@@kvlt1349 I suspected he was around book 6 7 ect but leading the sharans and the black tower at the same time changed my mind. It's much more interesting having them being 2 seperate people.
I just finished all 14 Audio books. I've read the entire series 6+ times, and the early books more than 20 times at least. It's amazing the things you pick up when you listen. The narrators are both talented, and I enjoyed listening to them. Anyhow, if you have Audio credits, you should check out a few (maybe start with your favorite book). That all being said, it does take time. It took me 18 months to listen to all 14 books. That includes multiple road trips and to and from work every day.
Seriously, this was something that went completely over my head if it was literally spelled out that she was responsible for it by Shaidar Haran later on and I didn't know it was in the glossary. Not sure what book I was reading. lol.
Back when Sanderson was writing out ToM and AMoL he had postulated on FB how to expose who killed Asmodean as it was getting a lot of attention as an unresolved plot point. I kept responding to just put it in the Glossary of the last book to which one time he replied that it was a good idea. Cut to when the book released and I looked at the glossary entry of Graendal and sure enough that is where it states she is responsible for the death of Asmodean.
*_"Elvis didn't die, he just went home."_** -- MEN IN BLACK [1999]* 😊😊😊 FWIW: The FIRST TIME I tried reading WoT several years ago, I got to book nine or ten, then sort of _crapped out._ {I am REREADING them now, and currently on book three.} I actually REMEMBER reading that passage in book five when Asmodean _snuffed it,_ but I never had a clue who did it.
Long before the glossary reveal, the WoT discussion group on Tor.com had sussed out the details and arrived at the correct conclusion. It became a massive exercise in elimination of options. Bottom line, his knowledge of what was about to happen as soon as he recognized his killer was the needle pointing at the correct answer. None of the remaining male forsaken considered him an issue, given his weakened state. Finally, Graendal had warned him about having anything to do with Rand, and he was surely horrified by her threat, given that she had a reputation of always following through. So seeing her on the other side of a random door was the most likely suspect to elicit his reaction of denial and terror.
I swear I read something somewhere where RJ said he was confused at the questions regarding Asmodeans death because he said all the clues were written in the same book, Fires of Heaven....
I always just thought it was slayer. I would like to see a video on whether or not shara was supposed to be seanchan, but was retconned later. Since rand and avienda teleported to what would seem to be the east coast of shara, using the sunrise as a reference. Im still not sure on that
Seanchan is a continent with two coasts of its own, it just happened that Aviendha's gateway went to the Eastern coast. More accurately, Rand's Ta'veren twisting put them near the Seanchan noble who would matter later in the story.
That was a helpful explanation. When I got the end of book 14 I spent some time on the wiki looking "What happened to so-and-so?" because I couldn't remember if their plotline was ever resolved...Asmodean was the main one I was wondering about!
Robert Jordan said in an online q & a that it was Graendal who killed Asmodean. He was also surprised that it was such a mystery. He (Jordan) said he left many clues for the readers.
ROFL! then my guess is that's who aran'gar was instead of aginor reincarnated by the dark one ^^ why else did they put a MALE channeler into a FEMALE body lol.i just figured it was aginor since he was acting as such an outrageous poonhound in book 1,trying to "grab elayne & nynaeve by the p*ssy",for him tht switcheroo would have been the biggest punishment imagineable, which is kinda the dark one's trademark
Additionally, if you read how "messy" Fel was when he was found - and how the modus operandi was in the later books, especially when Mat is dealing with him, it makes sense. (But the Gholam wasn't really introduced 'til when the gathering was in Ebou Dar.)
we never do find out who killed him or what happened afterwards...personally, i dont think the dark one took the trouble of reincarnating him since he switched sides n went back to the light,sort of..at any rate,he did enough to be branded a traitor to the shadow so he didnt have a lot of choice,and lanfir of course put a vice on his ability to channel so he was pretty helpless n couldnt even leave rhands side if he wanted to.lanfir really did have this guy by the short n curlies lol
Graendal is also very often linked with drinking wine and hedonism, and Asmodean dies while searching for wine, presumably finding his way to the wine cellar. It's a surface link at best, but still better than nothing. I wrote up a theory based on that, among other things, way back during like... Lord of Chaos days or something on the Theoryland forums. Good times.
When I read the Death scene my guess was that it was one of the 100 companions who somehow survived since the age of Legends and was now trying to help Rand in some way.
Not that she was the one because she was in the worl of the snakes and foxes but Moraine could totally have done it. She balefired Belal didn't she? The three oaths are specific. "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai" so yeah the oaths wouldn't have stopped her
I thought it was either the gholam (seemed too impersonal) or more likely slayer, sent by another chosen, back in the day (I first read them when book 7 was coming out as the newest). There's a relatively small number of people Asmodean would say "You" to, limiting it just to those prominent names or possibly more recent company in Rand's camps. However, I think Graendal's a good assumption as well, at that point in the series.
Did Greandal, at the time, have access to TP? From what I recall Balefire takes a fair amount of OP to weave. TP is not felt by anyone and would not give her away.
I always suspected it was her. As for motive, she was likely ordered to. Given that the Dark One likes to punish for failure and use that punishment as a means for utility (freeing Asmodean from Rand), this makes absolute sense.
Lordy, I remember when this book first came out, and for a long time after, all the debating and theorising on the message boards and forums trying to figure out who killed Asmo. And all before Jordan told us it was supposed to be obvious. Of course when he gave out that tidbit it didn't really help much at the time. Literally *everyone* was suggested at one point or another by someone on one forum or board somewhere. It seemed to be *The* *Great* *Mystery* of the era in Fantasy Literature, much like who Jon Snow's parents used to be at one (brief) point. Or perhaps who are Rey's parents in Star Wars. You get the picture. Asmodean was the new JR Ewing (ask your parents). Now I am feeling all nostalgic; "The Wheel of Time" was what introduced me to the world of online discussions, back when it was mostly done through newsgroup before the internet as we know it took off. Heck, not even sure if America OnLine existed then yet. But I started reading the series when THE GREAT HUNT came out, and soon had a screen name on a friend's Prodigy account that I used to get on to a newsgroup to discuss the two books, and have been doing that sort of acivity off and on for one IP or another ever since.
Indeed. For quite some time, a faction of the Tor.com re-read group insisted in crafting ways that Lanfear could "sneak" out of the land of snakes and foxes as one of her "wishes". As if murdering Asmodean would be on top of her list of actions given that opportunity.
Like your video. Wonder if you have read the crossover-Fanfiction short story "Sherlock Holmes Examines the Death of Asmodean". In it Holmes and Watson discuss the books and in the same way as you (though a lot more thoroughly) Holmes methodically eliminates all other suspects but Graendal using only the content of the books published to 2000, e.g. Demandred cannot be the killer because in Lord in Chaos he doesn't know Asmodean is dead while being a point of view-character. I always found a quite interesting read.
Yeah, I always thought it was a Gholam. But then I didn’t have the interview, and I thought Shaidar Harlan was just assigning any deaths near her to her, assuming she was assassinating her way up the ladder.
I do wish you'd mentioned the theory that Moridin did it as a play on the fact that the word "moridin" means "death" in the Old Tongue. "Death took him." "Moridin took him." Get it? Womp womp. Some people were sure this play on words was meant to indicate the killer. People argued about this on Dragonmount and WoTmania FOREVER. And Robert Jordan was really playful and coy about it before the final reveal.
It was not intuitively obvious that it was Graendal, I don't think ANYONE ever thought it was her (nobody I ever read or met anyway). RJ just said that because he knew it was her. I remember everyone thinking it was Lanfear, and despite her being "impossible", you know those Eelfin give you something, and what she wanted was to kill him, so I always figured it was her because she had reason to hate him and would be a big surprise. Graendal, lol. Anyway, it could have been Sammael because Channelers can hide that they're channeling from each other, unless they're the Little Sisters of the White Tower who don't know anything, Asmodean wouldn't have known because it was hidden.
Hmm I always thought that Shaidar Haran was referring to Samael as the 3rd, but this makes sense. One thing though we were introduced to Shaidar Haran when he interrogated Bors/Jachim when we are introduced to a the 1st fade to smile. This is far before the death of Asmodean. I always suspect Shaidar because of his direct connection to the Dark One's power as well as normal fade abilities, but if the reader says Graendal I will go with that lol.
I've always thought it was one of the black ajah who were around and took advantage of running into him in the pantry. I'm not as up on details as I should be. I haven't read the whole series beginning to end in a few years. I'm currently at the beginning of the audiobook for book 2 in my current re-read. If I'm not mistaken it says that Graendal is responsible for his death, but not that she directly killed him herself. If I'm wrong, can someone point me in the direction of the evidence that proves me wrong? I've always felt that the "you're responsible" comment implied she caused his death, not that she killed him herself.
That's kind of what Brandon Sanderson was going for. When he first received the 3 million words of Robert Jordan's notes, there was apparently right on top of that huge pile a page printed from some fan theory page on the internet about Graendal being the one to kill Asmodean, and Robert Jordan had just stuck a tiny post-it note on top of it that just read "Correct". That was it. Brandon first tried to work it somehow into the text but then eventually decided together with Harriet McDougal to just give the reader the same underwhelming reaction that they got, so they put it in the glossary
So i got the entire volume and have likely read it about 200 times since 1994 i didn't know about this other book could i just google that thing wheel companion ? i would really like one :}
Moridin was a suspect simply because his name means death and "death took him". But of course it's doubtful Asmodean would recognize him even if Moridin was around in book 5. Shaidar Haran, or proto-Shaidar Haran, was introduced in The Dragon Reborn talking to Bors, but Asmodean probably wouldn't have thought he was a special Myrddraal right away.
Balefire wasn't involved necessarily. In fact i think there's a greater argument to say it certainly wasn't. Balefire is a pretty powerful weave, and a foolish one to use in stealth, as if there's a woman who can channel nearby, such a strong weave would probably stand out. Probably even more foolish to use it on another of the chosen. It should be the dark one's decision to bring someone back, but Balefire removes his ability to make that decision. We know she wasn't punished for this, at worst she was berated a little, so i doubt she stole the choice from the dark one. I can't imagine he'd just let such a slight against him slide. I think she simply stopped his heart. It's quick, clean, and getting rid of a body afterwards is incredibly simple, she can literally open a gateway and throw him into the ocean or into Dragon mount itself. Not open a gateway IN dragon mount, but at the top and toss him into it. It also specifically said DEATH takes him, and Balefire is far far more than death. Just calling it death does it a disservice. With how much weight Jordan put onto Balefire, i don't believe he'd allude to it in such a light way. Why didn't Asmodean get revived if he wasn't killed with Balefire? The better question is, why would the dark one choose to revive him in the first place? He already betrayed them, and unlike the spider HE didn't have a magic collar that told his captor everything he even felt while being able to torture him at will. HE could have offed himself instead of teaching Rand LOADS of things about the power, making him an actual genuine threat for really the first time in the series. Before he just muddled his way through, but now he can FULLY control the power when and as he needs it. If Asmodean hadn't taught Rand such basic things as, how to take hold of the power consistently, SO many of the future events would have been next to impossible, and he'd have had to make it to Taim or Logaine after his healing in order to learn to channel consistently, which good luck with that. THAT cannot be rewarded with second chances, so no i think the dark one would have let him just stay dead. Probably so he could torture him forever.
I thought this was a good turn in the book. I dont think there was really anything else that could have realistically happened to him. Go good? Unlikely for a forsaken. Live much longer, even less likely. When you break it down like you did, it is pretty obvious who it was, but at the time I figured it was just one of those mysteries that youre never let in on. I was almost disappointed when I had learned. I also like that WOT doesnt overuse this sort of mystery element, and only has an occasional one here and there so as not to cheapen it with overuse.. I do remember not liking the idea that Lanfear would be able to partially shield, and tie off, a forsaken for days or even weeks without them unraveling it. And that Asmodean was "never very good" at unweaving a shield, and that he could still channel a small portion through the weave? It seemed a little too convenient. Is there any other example in the series of someone partially tying someone off?
"There were a lot of other female channelers channelling.." This is an assumption. Who are these female channelers? Wise Ones? If I remember correctly, only Egwene and Aviendha agreed to go with Rand, so definitely not Wise Ones. Egwene was injured by Lanfear and was left behind. The fighting was over at that point, or at least, Aviendha was not channelling. So who are these female channelers? I don't think there were any. And this is why I have an issue with Graendal as the killer. Why didn't Aviendha feel her channelling and go to investigate? Why didn't Mat's necklace feel cold? There is no indication in the books that anyone even noticed Asmodean being killed, and some should have if it was a female channeler.
I thought it was Dionysos the wine-god that killed [asmodi:n] (as I would have called him). [asmodi:n] really knew Dionysos the Wine-god in person, and he was able to weave Saidar.
It took me a second to figure out who it was. I figured it out eventually. It was a mystery for me for a while and i decided that it might come out in the later books. I hope for the show they change who kills him.
That mystery went on for a decade before an answer was given in canon (text.) But in reality? I, Amys the Wise One, did it. I overheard and considered it much ji but also toh to the Car'a'carn.
I thought it was Shaidar Haran when I was first going through the series but I was never for sure. I end up having to read the Wiki to know how the real culprit was
I think my hypothesis back when I read the books was that Lanfear had somehow escaped and killed Asmodean, and that's why he was so shocked to see his killer. I knew that Sammael and Graendal were the prime suspects though, just from the 'You!" comment. Otherwise, I thought Jordan was setting us up for a face-heel turn reveal of an established good guy character. But I didn't give it too much thought at the time, I thought that it would be revealed explicitly in the text. I don't remember if I realized it was Graendal before it was stated outright, I think a lot of readers were thrown off by her claims of ignorance regarding Asmodean to the other Forsaken. We as readers should know better than anyone to not trust anything Graendal says, however.
I really don't mean to sound arrogant, but the first time I read the series, I picked up who killed poor old Asmodean straight away. It was so obvious to me, honestly, it was - for me. My bff was reading the series at the same time as me, and she had no idea, and I had to tell her, and once I told her she was like oh yeah! I did not google it or anything. For me, I know who killed him, and I was honesty confused at how other people didn't know. It's funny though
Although any of the Forsaken are capable of murder, it isn't Grindel's style usually. One problem with Asmodean is that Rand captured him by cutting off his connection to the Dark One. I'm only on book 12 and so far, nobody has done that again. It may or may not be smart to Still captured Forsaken, but why not cut off their connection to the Dark One? It would truly screw them up if they ever escaped. (Actually, I don't know why they don't immediately Still any Dark Friend they capture. Why allow them to remain a threat? You KNOW that they will always escape if you don't kill them. That's why the good guys are always idiots.)
@Jagar Tharn I helped the Dragon handle the one power, with out this training the Great Lord breaks the wheel and Lews Therin never makes it to the last battle...Mic drop.
I always thought it was Moridin using the true source...Until it was revealed to be Graendal. It makes more sense, because no channeler would have been able to sense the use of the one power, and Balefire requires a big rip, so it’s kinda lame that it turned out to be Graendal and none of the female channelers in the area sensed someone drawing enough of the power to let loose balefire and sound alarm. A bit of a red herring in my opinion
@Lee Kelly It depends on the strength of it, stronger the amount the further back in time they were removed. Just enough to eliminate someone wouldn't have needed as much so to avoid notice, also putting more into it would have damaged surrounding environment as it continued on through.
Before I even watch this video...the books make it quite clear that Greandal murders Asmodean with balefire after Rand's battle with Rahvin. It states how he said "You..!" then a flash of white light. When Moridin co fronts her after the death of Osan'gar, he talks about her habit of killing (or at least involvement in the death of) her fellow Chosen. And later when Shadar Haran comes for her after Messana's mind breaks in her struggle with Egwene in the WoD, he says that her actions have directly resulted in the destruction of 3 of the chosen. It is never said right out, but Asmodean is the only one ever left unaccounted for, and as such it was her.
I know i havent read the books in awhile..but isnt Asmo brought back as Dashiva..and if so he couldnt have been killed with Balefire..there is no coming back from that.
@@jefffisher9458 no, that was Aginor. One of the two Chos...I mean Forsaken that went to the Eye. He killed himself by drawing too much of the pure Power from the Eye. Possibly being without the Power for so long left him insatiable for more, possibly just to try to keep Rand from using it. Either way he burst into flame.
Was it Greandal unseen, that was helping Rahvin fight Rand when he entered world of dreams in the flesh? Example causing the air to become water and having nasty water creatures cut Rand.
@@rahvinbelal5610 unlikely. Most of the Choosen will not help one another unless forces as it means less to share power with. That and Graendal wantes Rand for her collection at first. "Not quite handsome enough, but who he is more than makes up the difference." That, and only a fool would get between those two while fighting in the WoD (as a captured Moghedian kept trying to tell Nynaeve). Most likely she was comimg to check up on Rahvin, or maybe even steal some of his pets for her ownself, else why would she come in a pantry?
The book answer was lame and inconsequential. The biggest problem of all is that it doesn't fit the "You? No!" Asmodean was expecting any of the Forsaken to take him at any time. That should have been the first appearance of Cyndane, especially if Cyndane's body was Lanfear's original appearance before she was changed by the Aielfinn/Elfinn. She had complexes about who she was, based on her reaction to her true name and the only one knew that was Asmodean. It was all set up nicely, the execution stunk.
@@anaxmalakas it had seemed obvious. he was who the great lord meant to be the hook into Rand. but lanfear placed asmodean there. taim wanted to be chosen so he was made an opening for himself. this allowed him to be brought into the series with a more predominent role.
It is fallacious to assume that Asmodean would have detected a male channeller before coming into the room. It is clearly established at this point that the forsaken are so practiced at wielding the power that they can almost instantly become full of it and strike, as seen when a weakened Moghedien, after just having been healed from a near-death wound defeats Liandrin with near-zero warning. 'You? No!' implies to my ear that Asmodean knew the person, knew they would and could harm him, and detected they were about to harm him. I will point out that at this point we only thought Rahvin was dead, and he might not have been.
There was a general air of mystery around books 5 and 6, especially as to who Mazrim Taim was, and how it was that Sammael was so apparently convinced that Rand had agreed to his 'truce'.
Honestly one of the more disappointing elements of the WoT. The death of Assy was mysterious and the speculation went on or years because it was so open-ended. Having the resolution in an off-hand comment in one of the last books always felt like an easy wrap-up of a plot thread that ended up going nowhere.
I don't really care who killed Asmodean. I'm just upset that he was killed so soon. I wish he had been in Rand's shadow for another book or two.
curzon176 He was the most relatable of the forsaken. You basically sell your soul thinking your life is going to hedonism to the max and it just turns out you work for a really crappy boss and take to drinking and feeling sorry for yourself.
@@Nemo67577 Asmodean is a variant on the real life musician Robert Johnson (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Johnson#Devil_legend )
I agree, i was truly hoping rand's pull on the pattern was going to bring asmodean to his side, give him a true ally and teacher, not just a teacher in shackles ya know?
I wish he'd lived longer. That kind of character dynamic was interesting. Not even necessarily that Rand would redeem him, but just the constant of this guy should be an enemy but has to be an ally and he's cooperating but you have to worry that he'll switch if he gets a better option
I agree😊
I'd love it if you made a video on the snakes and foxes, actually. I know there are some hints to understanding who/what/where they are, but I am struggling to understand it. You help piece everything together so well!
Spencer Calsbeck yes!
Spender Callback, yes?
@@knuckle12356 Nice, man. I haven't heard that one since, like... 4th grade? The nostalgia is real lmao
Asmodean is a character I hope we get more of in the show. One book did not do him justice
Absolutely. A real redemption story would ad a lot to the show.
@@fenixchief7 yeah I'm not sure you make it to being a Forsaken and are willing or able to make a redemption arc.
Mason Miller I don’t know who said it but it was a comment I think on one of Nae’Blis’ videos: (paraphrasing) ‘Moiraine understood what you do with forsaken, you don’t take them prisoner, you kill them on the spot’. Albeit Rand had to learn and Moiraine knew this, but time and again the forces of light take the forsaken prisoner instead of excruciating them.
@@Lordo_Atlantis to be fair. Execution with anything besides balefire is temporary at best
Mason Miller totally. By execution I’m thinking of balefire
Bela killed Asmodean. Prove me wrong
@snwicke3 >>> 👍👍 😊
Why would anyone want to prove you wrong?! Of course this is true!
Naturally. How else would Bela have become the Neigh'Blis?
_"Prove me wrong"_ is the best proof that I know of!
@Jagar Tharn
That is certainly true. Bela is an avatar of the Creator after all.
I wonder if the line about Azmodean "shivering" as he considered his "rebirth" was actually Robert Jordan covertly slipping in that Azmodean was sensing a woman channeling but didn't recognize it for what it was.
This was discussed and discarded. Other women were channeling in the Palace, so his POV wouldn't have substituted the term "shiver" for that sensation.
I always got the impression that the murder was supposed to be a big murder mystery, but as folks began guessing and theorizing correctly (all possible options for who the killer could be), it limited RJ's options - essentially why bother going to the effort to write a murder mystery storyline if the reveal had already been guessed. So, rather than writing it, he realized that allowing fans to debate the issue ad nauseam provided them (and him) much more entertainment and engagement with the story. The off-handed reveal so long after the event took place (both in terms of years since publication and storyline in multiple books) was simply a final present to fans to provide a canon solution with a tidy bow, recognizing that fans would be angry if it were never truly resolved.
Actually, it's the opposite. Robert Jordan was going to make it a fairly casual reveal but decided to mess with the fans when he realized they were waaaay more interested than he initially suspected. He knew the answer from the beginning.
Loved this! I definitely didn’t catch the clues and someone had to tell me who it was. So I love how you laid out the evidence!
I had to be told too; my number1 suspect was the Gholam; sure he wasn't introduced to us then, but what an entrance that would've been for him
Asmodean's death was just so... pointless in the grand scheme of things. There was no subplot that centered around discovering who killed him, none of the characters really cared about that death. So when I was reading the books, when Asmodean died I wondered for a moment about his killer, but since it was never an important question in the story, I simply ignored this "mystery".
When I was reading the books, Graendal was my first thought. However, as I continued reading (even though it was confirmed to me that she killed him) the more it annoyed me that she was the killer. If you really think about it, it was incredibly out of character for her to kill him. She, almost impulsively, wants to completely possess all things she considers to be beautiful or unique. What could possibly be more beautiful and unique as one of, if not *the*, most skilled classical musicians of the Age of Legends? Asmodean was uniquely capable of reproducing all of the most popular music of her time, so it would have been more within her character if she had taken him captive, rather than killing him outright. So, logistically, it made the most sense that it was her, but it was the most out of character option.
I think she would take him for her own if he was not previously a Chosen. I think that sullies her view of him. That being said, it’s still totally out of her character to just randomly kill him. I would expect her to capture him and turn him into the Dark One in an attempt to curry favor.
Nobody deserves the shot in the arm for wheel of time content creators more than you now that the series is upon us. Thank you kindly. Upward and onward.
I always wondered who did it. I do wish that asmodian had longer he was a good character
What made these books fun was the literal decides of fan theories. To come in fresh and just blow through them, or binge them, it takes something away I think.
I don't know why, but this has always illuded me (have read the entire series 4-5 times). Once you said it, it made sense (& maybe I already thought that), but am glad that it was confirmed by you. Have an amazing day.
Damn I believed it was Shaidar Haran for waaayy too long.
Karl O me to haha I was shocked when I found out it wasent him
Same here.
There's a big problem with this whole narrative. At the time that his death was written, it *was* Taimandred that killed him according to Robert Jordan's notes. Because at the time his death was written, Taim and Demandred were the same person in RJ's notes.
In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "People":
b) Demandred: Hated/feared/despised Lews Therin. Like Lanfear, he plays for larger stakes than most of the others, who are trying to stake out wordly kingdoms. HE WILL SHOW UP CLAIMING TO BE MAZRIM TAIM. TAKING ADVANTAGE OF RAND'S AMNESTY.
In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "Rand":
Taim/Demandred showed up, not so much because his party wants Rand free -- though that might be a point in their plans; on the other hand, Rand in the hands of the White Tower, and thus within Mesaana's power, could still cause one hell of a lot of chaos -- but because of learning that the Shaido were moving in. They could not be sure the Aes Sedai could drive off the Shaido, nor that the Shaido would not kill Rand. And a rescued Rand, pissed at the Aes Sedai will really be a source of chaos and disunity.
In box 55 of the RJ collection, in a file entitled "Nynaeve":
She does not know that Aginor (Osan'gar) and Balthamel (Aran'gar) were resurrected, the latter as a woman who is now masquerading as Halima, Delana's secretary/companion.
She knows that Moghedien was prisoner, of course. Until she is/was informed by Egwene, Siuan or Leane, she thinks Moghedien is still a prisoner.
She does not know that Asmodean was a prisoner of Rand, nor, of course, that he was killed by Demandred.
kvlt1349
I think Mazrim Taim and Demandred should be the same person in the TV series, b/c it would give him a significantly greater presence in the story and the revelation of Taim actually being Demandred in disguise would be an amazing twist!
Taim isn't Demandred
David Emmitt
Taim was Demandred before RJ backtracked on it. It left a few loose threads that people pick up on and get confused about, e.g. "so-called Aiel". It caused a whole load of bitter feuding through the fandom for a long while before we finally got confirmation via the notes RJ left for Brandon Sanderson.
@@kvlt1349 I suspected he was around book 6 7 ect but leading the sharans and the black tower at the same time changed my mind. It's much more interesting having them being 2 seperate people.
@@davidemmitt9439 I never understand why people comment without reading first.
I just finished all 14 Audio books. I've read the entire series 6+ times, and the early books more than 20 times at least. It's amazing the things you pick up when you listen. The narrators are both talented, and I enjoyed listening to them. Anyhow, if you have Audio credits, you should check out a few (maybe start with your favorite book). That all being said, it does take time. It took me 18 months to listen to all 14 books. That includes multiple road trips and to and from work every day.
Seriously, this was something that went completely over my head if it was literally spelled out that she was responsible for it by Shaidar Haran later on and I didn't know it was in the glossary. Not sure what book I was reading. lol.
Back when Sanderson was writing out ToM and AMoL he had postulated on FB how to expose who killed Asmodean as it was getting a lot of attention as an unresolved plot point. I kept responding to just put it in the Glossary of the last book to which one time he replied that it was a good idea. Cut to when the book released and I looked at the glossary entry of Graendal and sure enough that is where it states she is responsible for the death of Asmodean.
Shaidar Haran, was introduced in book 3 when he visited Carridin, though not mentionened by name RJ did however confirm that it was Shaidar..
Henrik Gäfvert do you mean wasn’t?
*_"Elvis didn't die, he just went home."_** -- MEN IN BLACK [1999]* 😊😊😊
FWIW: The FIRST TIME I tried reading WoT several years ago, I got to book nine or ten, then sort of _crapped out._ {I am REREADING them now, and currently on book three.}
I actually REMEMBER reading that passage in book five when Asmodean _snuffed it,_ but I never had a clue who did it.
Book 10 is a massive snore, especially compared to so many others where to you're on the edge of your seat almost the entire time
Long before the glossary reveal, the WoT discussion group on Tor.com had sussed out the details and arrived at the correct conclusion. It became a massive exercise in elimination of options. Bottom line, his knowledge of what was about to happen as soon as he recognized his killer was the needle pointing at the correct answer. None of the remaining male forsaken considered him an issue, given his weakened state. Finally, Graendal had warned him about having anything to do with Rand, and he was surely horrified by her threat, given that she had a reputation of always following through. So seeing her on the other side of a random door was the most likely suspect to elicit his reaction of denial and terror.
It never occurred to me to care who killed Asmo.
That sign in the background…. 😂😂😂😂😂 A+ right there
I swear I read something somewhere where RJ said he was confused at the questions regarding Asmodeans death because he said all the clues were written in the same book, Fires of Heaven....
I always just thought it was slayer. I would like to see a video on whether or not shara was supposed to be seanchan, but was retconned later. Since rand and avienda teleported to what would seem to be the east coast of shara, using the sunrise as a reference. Im still not sure on that
Seanchan is a continent with two coasts of its own, it just happened that Aviendha's gateway went to the Eastern coast. More accurately, Rand's Ta'veren twisting put them near the Seanchan noble who would matter later in the story.
It actually stated who killed him in the glossary of book 13. It was in the little description next to Graendal's name.
We know. That wasn't the point.
@@derekwhittom1639 A lot of people here seem not to know.
That was a helpful explanation. When I got the end of book 14 I spent some time on the wiki looking "What happened to so-and-so?" because I couldn't remember if their plotline was ever resolved...Asmodean was the main one I was wondering about!
Robert Jordan said in an online q & a that it was Graendal who killed Asmodean. He was also surprised that it was such a mystery. He (Jordan) said he left many clues for the readers.
I didnt catch the clues until he revealed it in the q&a then later in the books
What if "death took him" just means that Moridin married him?
ROFL! then my guess is that's who aran'gar was instead of aginor reincarnated by the dark one ^^ why else did they put a MALE channeler into a FEMALE body lol.i just figured it was aginor since he was acting as such an outrageous poonhound in book 1,trying to "grab elayne & nynaeve by the p*ssy",for him tht switcheroo would have been the biggest punishment imagineable, which is kinda the dark one's trademark
@@greenzorse No Moridin was Elan confirmed
But who killed Herid Fel?
Great video BTW, I guess I just headcannoned Shaidar Haran for too long and missed the details.
i'm pretty sure the gholam did it, i think it was mentioned in the chapter somehow
@@alvin8684 yep. Literally says gholam twice.
Additionally, if you read how "messy" Fel was when he was found - and how the modus operandi was in the later books, especially when Mat is dealing with him, it makes sense. (But the Gholam wasn't really introduced 'til when the gathering was in Ebou Dar.)
We know it was the Gholam. I however wonder, who sent the Gholam and how that person knew about what Herid Fel was investigating.
@@Dark_X2 it was sammael. He's the one that found the stasis box with the last remaining gholam.
we never do find out who killed him or what happened afterwards...personally, i dont think the dark one took the trouble of reincarnating him since he switched sides n went back to the light,sort of..at any rate,he did enough to be branded a traitor to the shadow so he didnt have a lot of choice,and lanfir of course put a vice on his ability to channel so he was pretty helpless n couldnt even leave rhands side if he wanted to.lanfir really did have this guy by the short n curlies lol
By the time it was revealed I was way passed caring.
He only appeared in two books but he is still one of my favorite book villains aside from Padan Fain, Graendal, and Ishamael/Ba’alzamon/Moridin.
Graendal is also very often linked with drinking wine and hedonism, and Asmodean dies while searching for wine, presumably finding his way to the wine cellar. It's a surface link at best, but still better than nothing. I wrote up a theory based on that, among other things, way back during like... Lord of Chaos days or something on the Theoryland forums. Good times.
When I read the Death scene my guess was that it was one of the 100 companions who somehow survived since the age of Legends and was now trying to help Rand in some way.
Thank you so much 👍🏽
Not that she was the one because she was in the worl of the snakes and foxes but Moraine could totally have done it. She balefired Belal didn't she? The three oaths are specific. "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai" so yeah the oaths wouldn't have stopped her
I thought it was either the gholam (seemed too impersonal) or more likely slayer, sent by another chosen, back in the day (I first read them when book 7 was coming out as the newest). There's a relatively small number of people Asmodean would say "You" to, limiting it just to those prominent names or possibly more recent company in Rand's camps. However, I think Graendal's a good assumption as well, at that point in the series.
Did Greandal, at the time, have access to TP? From what I recall Balefire takes a fair amount of OP to weave. TP is not felt by anyone and would not give her away.
I always suspected it was her. As for motive, she was likely ordered to. Given that the Dark One likes to punish for failure and use that punishment as a means for utility (freeing Asmodean from Rand), this makes absolute sense.
Lordy, I remember when this book first came out, and for a long time after, all the debating and theorising on the message boards and forums trying to figure out who killed Asmo. And all before Jordan told us it was supposed to be obvious. Of course when he gave out that tidbit it didn't really help much at the time. Literally *everyone* was suggested at one point or another by someone on one forum or board somewhere. It seemed to be *The* *Great* *Mystery* of the era in Fantasy Literature, much like who Jon Snow's parents used to be at one (brief) point. Or perhaps who are Rey's parents in Star Wars. You get the picture. Asmodean was the new JR Ewing (ask your parents).
Now I am feeling all nostalgic; "The Wheel of Time" was what introduced me to the world of online discussions, back when it was mostly done through newsgroup before the internet as we know it took off. Heck, not even sure if America OnLine existed then yet. But I started reading the series when THE GREAT HUNT came out, and soon had a screen name on a friend's Prodigy account that I used to get on to a newsgroup to discuss the two books, and have been doing that sort of acivity off and on for one IP or another ever since.
Indeed. For quite some time, a faction of the Tor.com re-read group insisted in crafting ways that Lanfear could "sneak" out of the land of snakes and foxes as one of her "wishes". As if murdering Asmodean would be on top of her list of actions given that opportunity.
Like your video. Wonder if you have read the crossover-Fanfiction short story "Sherlock Holmes Examines the Death of Asmodean". In it Holmes and Watson discuss the books and in the same way as you (though a lot more thoroughly) Holmes methodically eliminates all other suspects but Graendal using only the content of the books published to 2000, e.g. Demandred cannot be the killer because in Lord in Chaos he doesn't know Asmodean is dead while being a point of view-character. I always found a quite interesting read.
Yeah, I always thought it was a Gholam. But then I didn’t have the interview, and I thought Shaidar Harlan was just assigning any deaths near her to her, assuming she was assassinating her way up the ladder.
I do wish you'd mentioned the theory that Moridin did it as a play on the fact that the word "moridin" means "death" in the Old Tongue.
"Death took him." "Moridin took him." Get it? Womp womp.
Some people were sure this play on words was meant to indicate the killer. People argued about this on Dragonmount and WoTmania FOREVER. And Robert Jordan was really playful and coy about it before the final reveal.
I so miss wotmania.com. Was my Home page for a *long* time, even after the name change.
wait,final reveal?did jordan ever confirm "whodunnit"? where can i find this? (or can you plz spare me the trouble n just tell me ?)
It was not intuitively obvious that it was Graendal, I don't think ANYONE ever thought it was her (nobody I ever read or met anyway). RJ just said that because he knew it was her. I remember everyone thinking it was Lanfear, and despite her being "impossible", you know those Eelfin give you something, and what she wanted was to kill him, so I always figured it was her because she had reason to hate him and would be a big surprise. Graendal, lol. Anyway, it could have been Sammael because Channelers can hide that they're channeling from each other, unless they're the Little Sisters of the White Tower who don't know anything, Asmodean wouldn't have known because it was hidden.
Hmm I always thought that Shaidar Haran was referring to Samael as the 3rd, but this makes sense. One thing though we were introduced to Shaidar Haran when he interrogated Bors/Jachim when we are introduced to a the 1st fade to smile. This is far before the death of Asmodean. I always suspect Shaidar because of his direct connection to the Dark One's power as well as normal fade abilities, but if the reader says Graendal I will go with that lol.
It's verified in the Endnotes of Book 13 but also in the Big White Companion book.
I've always thought it was one of the black ajah who were around and took advantage of running into him in the pantry. I'm not as up on details as I should be. I haven't read the whole series beginning to end in a few years. I'm currently at the beginning of the audiobook for book 2 in my current re-read. If I'm not mistaken it says that Graendal is responsible for his death, but not that she directly killed him herself. If I'm wrong, can someone point me in the direction of the evidence that proves me wrong? I've always felt that the "you're responsible" comment implied she caused his death, not that she killed him herself.
The book reveal seems a bit underwhelming for what a "who shot mr burns" mystery this was for the community
That's kind of what Brandon Sanderson was going for. When he first received the 3 million words of Robert Jordan's notes, there was apparently right on top of that huge pile a page printed from some fan theory page on the internet about Graendal being the one to kill Asmodean, and Robert Jordan had just stuck a tiny post-it note on top of it that just read "Correct". That was it. Brandon first tried to work it somehow into the text but then eventually decided together with Harriet McDougal to just give the reader the same underwhelming reaction that they got, so they put it in the glossary
I think it’s just something Jordan just abandoned like so many other characters that held promise.
It was Tallanvor. With the lead pipe in the billard room
I read that it says in the supplementary material somewhere that moghedien kills him. Can't confirm tho
Almost done with the series, i cant wait to watch this when i am. Ive been so curious to find out what really happened
What book are you on?
@@NaeBlis just started book 12 in audible
You’re in the endgame now! Haha. Enjoy!
Graendal killed him. The Wheel of Time Companion said so.
So i got the entire volume and have likely read it about 200 times since 1994 i didn't know about this other book could i just google that thing wheel companion ? i would really like one :}
Moridin was a suspect simply because his name means death and "death took him". But of course it's doubtful Asmodean would recognize him even if Moridin was around in book 5. Shaidar Haran, or proto-Shaidar Haran, was introduced in The Dragon Reborn talking to Bors, but Asmodean probably wouldn't have thought he was a special Myrddraal right away.
I honestly never knew who it was till I tread the glossary.
Balefire wasn't involved necessarily. In fact i think there's a greater argument to say it certainly wasn't.
Balefire is a pretty powerful weave, and a foolish one to use in stealth, as if there's a woman who can channel nearby, such a strong weave would probably stand out. Probably even more foolish to use it on another of the chosen. It should be the dark one's decision to bring someone back, but Balefire removes his ability to make that decision. We know she wasn't punished for this, at worst she was berated a little, so i doubt she stole the choice from the dark one. I can't imagine he'd just let such a slight against him slide.
I think she simply stopped his heart. It's quick, clean, and getting rid of a body afterwards is incredibly simple, she can literally open a gateway and throw him into the ocean or into Dragon mount itself. Not open a gateway IN dragon mount, but at the top and toss him into it. It also specifically said DEATH takes him, and Balefire is far far more than death. Just calling it death does it a disservice. With how much weight Jordan put onto Balefire, i don't believe he'd allude to it in such a light way.
Why didn't Asmodean get revived if he wasn't killed with Balefire?
The better question is, why would the dark one choose to revive him in the first place? He already betrayed them, and unlike the spider HE didn't have a magic collar that told his captor everything he even felt while being able to torture him at will. HE could have offed himself instead of teaching Rand LOADS of things about the power, making him an actual genuine threat for really the first time in the series. Before he just muddled his way through, but now he can FULLY control the power when and as he needs it. If Asmodean hadn't taught Rand such basic things as, how to take hold of the power consistently, SO many of the future events would have been next to impossible, and he'd have had to make it to Taim or Logaine after his healing in order to learn to channel consistently, which good luck with that. THAT cannot be rewarded with second chances, so no i think the dark one would have let him just stay dead. Probably so he could torture him forever.
Great job!
I thought this was a good turn in the book. I dont think there was really anything else that could have realistically happened to him. Go good? Unlikely for a forsaken. Live much longer, even less likely. When you break it down like you did, it is pretty obvious who it was, but at the time I figured it was just one of those mysteries that youre never let in on. I was almost disappointed when I had learned. I also like that WOT doesnt overuse this sort of mystery element, and only has an occasional one here and there so as not to cheapen it with overuse..
I do remember not liking the idea that Lanfear would be able to partially shield, and tie off, a forsaken for days or even weeks without them unraveling it. And that Asmodean was "never very good" at unweaving a shield, and that he could still channel a small portion through the weave? It seemed a little too convenient. Is there any other example in the series of someone partially tying someone off?
"There were a lot of other female channelers channelling.."
This is an assumption. Who are these female channelers? Wise Ones? If I remember correctly, only Egwene and Aviendha agreed to go with Rand, so definitely not Wise Ones. Egwene was injured by Lanfear and was left behind. The fighting was over at that point, or at least, Aviendha was not channelling. So who are these female channelers?
I don't think there were any. And this is why I have an issue with Graendal as the killer. Why didn't Aviendha feel her channelling and go to investigate? Why didn't Mat's necklace feel cold? There is no indication in the books that anyone even noticed Asmodean being killed, and some should have if it was a female channeler.
I thought it was Dionysos the wine-god that killed [asmodi:n] (as I would have called him). [asmodi:n] really knew Dionysos the Wine-god in person, and he was able to weave Saidar.
I know we know, but I hope this element is given airtime in the TV series.
It took me a second to figure out who it was. I figured it out eventually. It was a mystery for me for a while and i decided that it might come out in the later books. I hope for the show they change who kills him.
Man I wanna watch many of your videos but I'm not quite done with the books yet!
That mystery went on for a decade before an answer was given in canon (text.) But in reality?
I, Amys the Wise One, did it. I overheard and considered it much ji but also toh to the Car'a'carn.
Careful you don't stub your toh.
I remember thinking it was her just by her being the one that told the others he was dead
I think Masrim was introduced already
BELA IS NAE’BLIS!
Let Asmodean live! Tell the writers of the TV show to let the poor Guy live.
There's an index at the back of each book that has the pronunciation of each name...
I thought it was Shaidar Haran when I was first going through the series but I was never for sure. I end up having to read the Wiki to know how the real culprit was
I think my hypothesis back when I read the books was that Lanfear had somehow escaped and killed Asmodean, and that's why he was so shocked to see his killer. I knew that Sammael and Graendal were the prime suspects though, just from the 'You!" comment. Otherwise, I thought Jordan was setting us up for a face-heel turn reveal of an established good guy character. But I didn't give it too much thought at the time, I thought that it would be revealed explicitly in the text. I don't remember if I realized it was Graendal before it was stated outright, I think a lot of readers were thrown off by her claims of ignorance regarding Asmodean to the other Forsaken. We as readers should know better than anyone to not trust anything Graendal says, however.
I really don't mean to sound arrogant, but the first time I read the series, I picked up who killed poor old Asmodean straight away. It was so obvious to me, honestly, it was - for me. My bff was reading the series at the same time as me, and she had no idea, and I had to tell her, and once I told her she was like oh yeah! I did not google it or anything. For me, I know who killed him, and I was honesty confused at how other people didn't know. It's funny though
So many picked the line "Death Took him" and when Moridin was introduced, that set off the chain reaction fire for a decade.
@@amysthe-wise-one8493 I just took that to mean he was dead 😂 But I can understand that now.
Although any of the Forsaken are capable of murder, it isn't Grindel's style usually.
One problem with Asmodean is that Rand captured him by cutting off his connection to the Dark One. I'm only on book 12 and so far, nobody has done that again. It may or may not be smart to Still captured Forsaken, but why not cut off their connection to the Dark One? It would truly screw them up if they ever escaped. (Actually, I don't know why they don't immediately Still any Dark Friend they capture. Why allow them to remain a threat? You KNOW that they will always escape if you don't kill them. That's why the good guys are always idiots.)
I just noticed that i don't remember rand adressing asmodean's death. Does he ever?
Elvis is alive and well and working at a Burger Lord in Des Moines... and he's the happiest man alive.
About time you mentioned me...
@Jagar Tharn I helped the Dragon handle the one power, with out this training the Great Lord breaks the wheel and Lews Therin never makes it to the last battle...Mic drop.
I think I read Towers to quickly and missed it. I probably need to go back and reread Towers and Memory.
you should let Michael Kramer read these excerpts ,,he's great and advertisement for audible
I really wanted a redemption arc out of this character! Was sad he was killed off
I always thought it was Moridin using the true source...Until it was revealed to be Graendal. It makes more sense, because no channeler would have been able to sense the use of the one power, and Balefire requires a big rip, so it’s kinda lame that it turned out to be Graendal and none of the female channelers in the area sensed someone drawing enough of the power to let loose balefire and sound alarm. A bit of a red herring in my opinion
@Lee Kelly It depends on the strength of it, stronger the amount the further back in time they were removed. Just enough to eliminate someone wouldn't have needed as much so to avoid notice, also putting more into it would have damaged surrounding environment as it continued on through.
I suppose it could have been greandal i don't see why not. yet i thought she was presently settling in the west
Do you have a Discord server?
discord.gg/3wpQpJ
Nae'Blis I’m a dunce. Never saw this and now the link has expired.
Saw it now because of a random like on it.
Sincere apologies and appreciation.
discord.gg/afjXRwH
Re- watching because I forgot...and another view!!!:)
Before I even watch this video...the books make it quite clear that Greandal murders Asmodean with balefire after Rand's battle with Rahvin. It states how he said "You..!" then a flash of white light. When Moridin co fronts her after the death of Osan'gar, he talks about her habit of killing (or at least involvement in the death of) her fellow Chosen. And later when Shadar Haran comes for her after Messana's mind breaks in her struggle with Egwene in the WoD, he says that her actions have directly resulted in the destruction of 3 of the chosen. It is never said right out, but Asmodean is the only one ever left unaccounted for, and as such it was her.
I know i havent read the books in awhile..but isnt Asmo brought back as Dashiva..and if so he couldnt have been killed with Balefire..there is no coming back from that.
@@jefffisher9458 no, that was Aginor. One of the two Chos...I mean Forsaken that went to the Eye. He killed himself by drawing too much of the pure Power from the Eye. Possibly being without the Power for so long left him insatiable for more, possibly just to try to keep Rand from using it. Either way he burst into flame.
@@joshuafriday9748 Wow it has been way too long..i could have sworn they brought Asmo back...
Was it Greandal unseen, that was helping Rahvin fight Rand when he entered world of dreams in the flesh? Example causing the air to become water and having nasty water creatures cut Rand.
@@rahvinbelal5610 unlikely. Most of the Choosen will not help one another unless forces as it means less to share power with. That and Graendal wantes Rand for her collection at first. "Not quite handsome enough, but who he is more than makes up the difference." That, and only a fool would get between those two while fighting in the WoD (as a captured Moghedian kept trying to tell Nynaeve). Most likely she was comimg to check up on Rahvin, or maybe even steal some of his pets for her ownself, else why would she come in a pantry?
The book answer was lame and inconsequential. The biggest problem of all is that it doesn't fit the "You? No!" Asmodean was expecting any of the Forsaken to take him at any time.
That should have been the first appearance of Cyndane, especially if Cyndane's body was Lanfear's original appearance before she was changed by the Aielfinn/Elfinn.
She had complexes about who she was, based on her reaction to her true name and the only one knew that was Asmodean. It was all set up nicely, the execution stunk.
i always figured it to be Taim
Me too for some reason
@@anaxmalakas
it had seemed obvious. he was who the great lord meant to be the hook into Rand. but lanfear placed asmodean there. taim wanted to be chosen so he was made an opening for himself. this allowed him to be brought into the series with a more predominent role.
Samael was book 3.
I thought it was Padan Fain when I first read it.
It is fallacious to assume that Asmodean would have detected a male channeller before coming into the room. It is clearly established at this point that the forsaken are so practiced at wielding the power that they can almost instantly become full of it and strike, as seen when a weakened Moghedien, after just having been healed from a near-death wound defeats Liandrin with near-zero warning.
'You? No!' implies to my ear that Asmodean knew the person, knew they would and could harm him, and detected they were about to harm him.
I will point out that at this point we only thought Rahvin was dead, and he might not have been.
There was a general air of mystery around books 5 and 6, especially as to who Mazrim Taim was, and how it was that Sammael was so apparently convinced that Rand had agreed to his 'truce'.
Well, Asmodean was a musician, so it makes sense.
Is it so hard to talk about what the title is?
Either Isam or Luc killed Asmodean though possibly Shadar Hanan did the deed himself.
Um, you know it's confirmed that it was Graendal, right?
It was definitely Narg.
The whiteboard does not lie.
Asmodean lives!
Shasta Smedry killed Asmodean. Brandon Sanderson confirmed.
Bela killed and ate him.
I comment about the "murder mystery" = "blah". Wasted opportunities.
Honestly one of the more disappointing elements of the WoT. The death of Assy was mysterious and the speculation went on or years because it was so open-ended. Having the resolution in an off-hand comment in one of the last books always felt like an easy wrap-up of a plot thread that ended up going nowhere.
I always believed it was the gholum