Holy shit just wait until you guys see the next video. “JUsT mAkE tHe LiFt BrO” OK JUST SO WE ARE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. THE PRESS OUT IS A BIT OF A MISNOMER. THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS RARELY CALLED (IN COMPETITION FOR ADVANCED LIFTERS) DUE TO AN ATHLETE ACTUALLY “PRESSING” THE BAR INTO ITS FINAL POSITION. THE CALL USUALLY WILL COME FROM A SUBJECTIVE FLICKER OF THE ELBOW DURING THE CATCH OR THE RECOVERY PHASES.
Olympic lifting is daying cause many reasons and this is not one of them, first reason why olympic lifting is dying is cause it's a beta male sport cause it doesn't reward the user in any different/better way then other lifting stuff like calisthenics, powerlifting, strongman BUT there is ENORMOUS risks to it which can make you messed up for life. On top of that it's complicated for normal people another major factor is most weight lifters gets pushed steroids into their body at young age which makes people not wanna get into weighlifting. Basicly weightlifting has 0 to give to people besides being a super toxic beta male sport that hopefully will have died out in 50 years or less time.
@@jonashuovila9287 Lol... like did you actually just go with your gut on all of this, Olympic lifting is actually statistically one of the safest sports in the Olympics. There are 2 main reasons that set it apart from strongman and a third that doesn't really count depending on who you talk to. 1. you miss a back squat in powerlifting you get crushed if your spotters fail, switch grip deadlifts are not natural and have decent chance of tearing a bicep, bench press is surprisingly most likely the safest, but a lot of strain on your back none the less, (more so deadlift and back squat) as for strongman, well... its pretty much risky moves city, but the guys are beasts so they rarely let it show. In weightlifting if your trained and miss a snatch or clean its almost always because you didn't pull high enough in which case the bar falls back to the ground and you walk away, and should you miss a jerk... the bar fall to the ground and you walk away, even after ridiculous failed saves... the bar falls to the ground and you walk away. throw someone who doesn't know what they are doing into any sport and watch them get hurt. as for weightlifters getting pushed steroids from a young age... of course doping is a problem in this sport, its a problem in every sport but yes more prevalent in this one, no successful program forces children to dope because physiologically its the most dumb thing you could do, no successful program would give athletes steroids until they were at least an advanced lifter either, simply because you would have basically the same result without them until that point. Steroids also more often than not cause muscle growth to rapidly leading to tendon and ligament tears, what idiot do you honestly think would give a child steroids so as to drastically increase chance of permanent injury for no noticeable gain. its also not complicated to understand, if the bar ends up over your head and your holding its probably a good lift. Its just hard to do, like literally everything at the elite level. one of the greatest weightlifters of all time is Lu Xiaojun, who started lifting late, is from a country Americans tend to think is shady, and is basically proven to not be on drugs just because his career is so long that if he was he would have torn something by now, on top of that steroids result in infertility more often than not and the guy has two kids, some Olympic lifters have been tested as many as 23 times a month, as much as a problem as it is, countries will do stupide things sometimes, and so will coaches/athletes, but its not like everyone in Russia's mother was on arms before they were born and then they were put on PED's right after birth. Besides... in America alone 1. steroid use is more accepted by adolescence and more widely used than ever before weather your in sports or not doesn't even really mater just ask any high school teacher. 2. if a kid thinks he'll never be good without steroids he will never be successful at any sport and i don't really care if he gets into weightlifting to be honest.
Well they’re ran by Iranians so.. if you’re not aware of the political climate in that country it should be of no surprise they value themselves over others 🤷🏻♂️
It's been brewing since the 2019 worlds, when nearly any shoulder/elbow shakes resulted in a trip to the jury. It's absolutely bonkers. I can't imagine the pressure of know you have to be explosive, but anything that might cause the bar to crash down on you at all and might cause an elbow or shoulder to not stay in perfect lockout. It's been a bananas past couple of years in weightlifting, and I agree w/ Zack, it makes the sport seem as inscrutable where the go/no go comes down to "their elbow wiggled, I guess." Any other sport has some kind of scoring system to take into account imperfections.
The goal everywhere is to eliminate all traditions...that’s olympics,NBA ,NFL,MLB ,horse racing,Strawberry festival,Surfing any thing that you used to do...It’s all being replaced or removed that’s the goal...don’t get it twisted the excuses don’t make since cause the truth is the truth here.
imagine if they said "oh that long 100m time doesn't count because you naruto ran"... like, do they fear someone doing a press out is going to somehow beat everyone and invalidate the "real" technique?
They let us grind in powerlifting, knees caving, cat backing, vomiting on the platform, so long as the bar starts and finishes where it's supposed to. Max effort is rarely pretty.
Unlike those other things hitching is actually advantageous, I think that's the relevant distinction. Micromanaging technique can be justified to prevent a dangerous race to the (mechanically efficient) bottom. We pause in the bench because if we didn't we'd be competing to see who could make his ribcage into the best trampoline, and that's bound to end poorly. What most PL feds get mostly right and WL (apparently) is getting wrong is not sweating pointless nonsense that would change nothing and hurt nobody if it were to be allowed.
@@JHMninja89 Strongman does though. Strongman allows almost anything as long as weight starts and finishes in the right place. Except double dipping in the viking press. That rule is dumb and needs to change.
I was gonna say take it a step further to strongman. Look at world records in strongman. If a ref like big z or Magnus ver calls a lift good then it is good and that is that. People online will complain to no end but the lift is good. This is what I like about strongman compared to WL or even PL. it simplifies things just a little more in this sense of calling lifts.
What made me sick during that session was the jury overruling Korea's good lift into no lift and overruling Ecuador's clearly no lift to good lift. Along with press out rule, the sick jury must be removed as well.
Yes I've been watching all of seb's video recaps as well. And hearing him talk about that poor lady who was so harshly judged, and then giving similar lifts to her competition. Made me sad man. I had never even heard of this lady before but I just felt so bad for her. I can only imagine she's worked like a son of a bitch for years to get on that stage. Then this happens. Imagine the mental burden after. Id be fucked up for at least a solid month. It's not like Olympic competitors get to redeem themselves after a few months or whatever. A lot can happen in life in four years. I'm sure most never get redemption.
Spam the IWF page, USAW, whoever, anyone, everywhere, lets get rid of this stupidass subjective rule that only creates an extra barrier to entry in an already obscure sport.
You phrased it perfectly at the end. If someone is standing to face the crowd with the weight overhead it means they made the lift. They overcame the weight and conquered it. To then strip someone of that feeling and medal because "it was pressed out" is just ridiculous. It's like the person who made up this rule has never even attempted weightlifting.
Weightlifting is also a skill sport. Not juste brute strength. If they (weightlifters) want to be allowed to press, they can beg the IWF to bring back the Press. If not the case, just stick to the rule.
@@09thespecialone You're never gonna be able to press more than you jerk anyway. Did you even watch the video? It's technical as fuck already. It's not a dance choreography...
@@09thespecialone A press out is usually one elbow which is not fully locked out which then gets locked out after the bar is overhead. It's not a quarter press in the slightest.
Olympic judges are the most unreasonably harshest people on earth. Every time I watch an incredible lift get called back for slightest flicker, I want to jump out a window. Thanks for this excellent rant 👏
"if someone stands with the bar overhead, with the crowd facing them, and it's the Olympics, that should be a made lift!" Nail hit on the head by Thor's 🔨 !! Was watching the sessions yesterday with my girlfriend and we were both of the same mind. "How is it an advantage? Why disallow the lift? Do these judges need to justify their existence by turning down lifts? Because it seems like except for the pressout, this sport can literally exist without judges at all!
@@ah7027 Here comes the literal dissection of comments police. It's like Zack said, it's 99% of what these judges turn down, so please point out the 1% we've already accounted for. I'll amend my comment for you, they do next to nothing instead of nothing. Is that better? Can you detect sarcasm or are you the kind of person who needs to be explained when something is a joke, said in jest or not literal?
@@ah7027 true but elbow taping the knee can result in wrist breaking and double dipping gives a clear advantage, although in a different world double dipping is allowed and no one ever misses a jerk again so no one cares about press outs
@@22448824 i actually had no idea that was the case so thanks for teaching me something new, still though i kind of see why elbow hitting the knee is bad simply because of safety, however, if it actually maters your breaking your wrist either way right so if you don't break your wrist and have the ability to save it then why not give that person the lift right, the way i see it is that if a lifter has the physically ability to make a great save why not let them. On the snatch if your knee touches the ground its a no lift... but can you imagine watching someone save a max snatch after there knee touches the ground. I would personally enjoy that.
It has been so weird and sad watching the weightlifting, where the people celebrate making the lift, and then the judges steal the lift from them. Honestly it seemed like they've been extra hard on the Americans, stealing silver medals from them. The one woman had her lift removed because she apparently dropped it before it came down to her chest or something like that? Like she didn't follow the bar down enough? Also, I'd love to see your breakdown of the Silver vs Bronze +87 KG Women's Event. Sarah Robles had what looked to be a perfect lift in the final clean and jerk that wasn't counted, but the British Lifter had a horrible lift where she almost fell of the platform and her elbow was shaking like crazy but they gave her the lift. All of the judging just seemed so odd for a lot of the weightlifting events in these Olympics.
That was a tough call and I agree with you it was wrong but Katherine Nye in the 76kg did actually win silver. Her lifts were around PB level and she placed 14kg below the gold medalist so think the bad call was ultimately was inconsequential to the final medal result.
@@Franklin-zc2jo well no because she had a lift removed and the winner had a lift over which she had no control validated, so the gap would have been far smaller, so she could have made a 3rd attempt at lower than 148 to try for the gold…
@@Jackdackster sure anything is possible but she was already behind in the snatch and the gold medal winner was really in a class of their own so I really doubt she could have taken gold
I've never understood this rule when you see a lifter making a lift by pacing all over the platform, back, forwards and to the side even, even twirling around. But the don't make the lift because their elbow was a bit twitchy or their elbows just don't lockout the same way other lifters do.
There's a tendency in people to just go with "the way we've always done things". But WHY do we do things this way? What is the POINT of the rules? IMO, if you can get the bar overhead without hitching it, then it's a good lift.
@@ErikTails its a weightlifting rule where for both the snatch and clean and jerk you can't just drop it from overhead once you get buzzer, you have to keep your hands on the bar until it is below shoulder height
This video explains a lot. I’ve been fooling around with weightlifting adjacently to my regular strength training for months now, slowly getting more into it. I just learned of the press out rule after watching a clip of the American women’s heavyweight lifter get called on what appeared to be a clean lift. You’ll never get casual fans to understand and go along with this rule. Thanks for the video.
This is how I reacted to weightlifting in Tokyo 2020. Our lifter from Taiwan didn’t make it due to the competition. When we watch the replay, we were like “where the fxxk did he press?”
Thanks for this! The over complicating of rules across all strength sports, to me, is one of the biggest problems undermining what is otherwise one of the purest tests of human performance out there. What makes weightlifting, power lifting, and track and field such great sports is the complete objectivity of the feat and ease of comparison. Anything that impedes that should be tossed out.
When I saw some of the no lifts from this I was equally baffled and glad you had a video on it. I was mad that a small SMALL elbow bend got red lights.
As much as i celebrated Emily Campbell's fight for Silver (as a brit) i feel for Sarah Robles and her deflated "No? Ok..." after her lift. Also Maddie's last snatch, these lifts look good, they make the lift, you clap, red lights appear then you watch a slow motion replay of an elbow twitching 1mm and a lift taken away, it's a joke.
@@jimmierustler5607 Yeah I know, but I just meant that it was not a harsh call as it was a clear press out. By your words it sounds as you are surprised their lifts got turned over.
@@larryboi2706 Not really suprised, just annoyed. It's like if you saw a Javelin thrower throw a Javelin 120m and it gets ruled out because he grunted while doing it
Feels like we are finally getting the ball rolling with this one. I’m glad. It’s very apparent whether the lifter was strong enough to make the lift or whether the weight was so heavy they had to “press” the bar…
The very next lifter after the Korean lifter in that session also had a lift go to jury review. Her lift was OK'd. I couldn't see a difference, and it definitely didn't make sense to me at the time. Glad I wasn't imagining that.
100% agree! It has pissed me off so much that I have turned off the coverage a few times. Absolute nonsense. We want to see people lift large amounts but then we punish people who push themselves to lift more
Completely agree on the clean and jerk. There is really no reason to be disallowing press outs. Frankly, the clean and jerk could literally just be a lock it out overhead any way you can and it would probably not change much from what you see now and the judging would get much simpler. Snatch is probably more complicated. The definition of what is a snatch and what isn’t is sort of complex no matter how you slice it. You might be able to simplify it by just requiring that the bar never rest on your body, but I wouldn’t be sure that there wouldn’t end up being some weird results and new techniques. But that might not be bad, on the other hand.
The objective vs subjective argument is the strongest point by far. Weightlifting has the ability to be one of the most objectively pure sports that exists and yet they've created subjective rules that does NOT fix any competitive aspect. Simplified clearly objective rules is the dream of almost all sports and is rarely possible. Most rules come about after some situation arises that could possibly affect the outcome of the competition. This isn't the case with the press out rule as like you stated pressing out only makes things more difficult. This rule only makes the sport worse. Period.
I honestly didn't believe it and was sad to see it happen even though I was hoping the Mexican lifter Fuentes (finished bronze) would take silver over Nye. Lucky the Ecuadorian finished so strong ahead and the medal tally was basically unaffected otherwise the event would have just been bitter all round
that one was put in for the equipment and for safety. Its a pretty easy rule to follow and she should have known better. She even admitted she made a mistake. I dont think it should be removed. Its also an easy rule to follow lol. you dont even have to slow the weight down. just dont let go early. I ride all of my lifts down to the ground to help control the bar. No reason not to. now a dumb rule is the fact you cant touch the bar with your foot. I know it was to stop people from kicking the bar out of anger. but a bit annoying for people who push it forward with the foot before lifting lol.
The literal only reason I have ever thought that the rule was implemented was for the sake of competition. A lifter who can perform a jerk at the same weight as their competition cleanly and without a press out arguably deserves more credit for the lift than one who requires pressing out for the lock out. One lifter is objectively demonstrating better technique and power if you don't need the press out. I had always thought it was for scoring purposes for that exact scenario. But the fact that it gets you red lights is an absurdly harsh punishment and discouraging to some of my athletes with issues in their elbows or upper body strength. They can keep it in the event of a tie imo, but to earn reds and bomb out cause the judges think your elbows get too groovy is awful. Love the vid Zack
I'm a powerlifter who watched weightlifting for the first time in the Olympics this year simply because the USA had a good team. Watching athletes from all over the world get a lift turned down because of the tiniest bit of wobble in the elbow was mind blowing. Your take is dead on, Zack.
Since there is no clean and press anymore, then there is zero reason to attempt to distinguish the jerk from the press (which no longer exists). Certainly the crazy enforcement of the judges and juries in the Olympics this year are underscoring the sheer stupidity of this orthodoxy. Snatch is one move to upright and overhead, C&J is two moves to upright and overhead. Go ahead and try to come up with a more efficient way of achieving that outcome - there ain't one. And some lifters have physical features that sure look like it's not a lockout - just look at poor Bernardin Matam - his snatch overhead position looks like he's pressing out, but it's just the way his arms work.
Quick lifts by textbook are catching motion movements (snatch and jerk). After you jump under the weight, you catch it with arms fully extended in one fluid motion. Extended arms mean straight elbows. Bending and rebending an elbow is a pressing act. The press out rule is not subjective. And arms proportions have nothing to do with it.
I don't think the pressout rule should be abolished, rather it needs to be amended. Something like, if the jerk is caught overhead with bent arms and then the arms are extended (the slow pressout you sometimes see), it would be a no lift. But if the jerk is caught with straight arms and then a rebend of the elbows occurs (the kind of elbow flicker you always see), then this should be allowed. Something along those lines anyway. It still is quite subjective though.
Damn this reminds me of the video you made, laughing at the judging standards for the CrossFit open, specifically the section stating that a press out will be considered a 'good lift'
Great video coach. I was watching the live transmission the other day and was appalled as some of the lifters managed to save the lift with some incredible feats of strength yet the judges won't take them for valid because the technique wasn't correct. Had the same feeling you're just mentioning - to press the bar and save the lift is actually harder to do, what does it matter if it's less aesthetic ? The weight went overhead and that should be the end of it ffs
I think it would be extremely reasonable for the IWF to change the rule to something like "the athlete must have their elbows locked before reaching the upright position with their feet in line" (Essentially, you must lock the elbows before you stand in the snatch and bring your feet together in the jerk or stand from squat jerk) On top of that, the jury should now only be there for challenge requests... whats the point of referees when the jury ultimately is deciding lifts.. just have 10 referees
To be fair, I don't really care about weightlifting as I'm more into powerlifting/strongman stuff. But man...I really do enjoy your content! You're the voice of reason and really a down to earth persona. I actually watch your videos due to all the information and interesting opinions.
i feel like the judges call if there's a mistake in the lift or not, and the jury should be there to say... well yes i saw the mistake too, but the lift was so cool we should give it to them anyway.
I'm on board. Been saying this. In FL high school weightlifting, the sport is heavily dependent on volunteer judges who are essentially students or teachers being asked to judge a clean and jerk. You can imagine the disproportion of calls during the jerk let alone a jury at the Olympics not being sure either. Like you said WHO CARES. Athletes who efficiently jerk, will win. Pressing out is a hope and a prayer. Please kick out the press out.
i do powerlifting and while watching the weightlifting yesterday i was rambling the whole time about how stupid that rule seemed to me! i am so glad a professional has given an opinion which completely aligned with mine, it is just so not logical, and these stupid rules exist in heaps of other disciplines. the fat useless pretentious judges need to sort their sheet out
We should be seeking to remove as much subjective judging from all sport as is possible. Why in the world do people defend tHe HuMaN eLeMeNt of judges stealing glory from competitors in sport? Whether it’s changing the way Simone Biles is scored, a completely arbitrary strike zone in baseball, or press outs and pointless rules on how you drop the bar in weightlifting, it’s all idiotic and should be purged from sport. Human error should always be minimized
Oh good thing you made this video, me and brother were learning olympic lifts and were struggling with the technicalities of the snatch and muscling through everything. So we wondered if a motha just got on stage and basically just lat raised like 400lbs from the ground into a snatch hold and stood up what the hell would the judges even do.
So you’re saying since crossfit allows press outs in the jerk, they’re doing something right that weightlifting isn’t? 😂 In all seriousness, great video as always Zack.
It's a remnant of the Press era in Weightlifting (1928-1972). The rule was putted in place in order to distinguish the pressing motion lift (Clean and Press) and the catching motion lifts (Snatch and Clean & Jerk). Bending and rebending an elbow with a loaded barbell overhead almost to full lock out is indeed a pressing motion movement. A snatch is snatch not a snatch and press. And a jerk is a jerk. Not a jerk and press. Quick lifts are technical lifts for a reason. Each technical lift has its own style which must be mastered by the weightlifter. In a sense, the IWF is right to keep that rule in place by purism.
There is actually just one rule in weightlifting and thats what you said when you described the lifts. Thats it. They have to be done in one fluid motion. Thats why the pressing out rule exist, to make sure the number of movements is respected. Great rant though, the calls sometimes can be abysmal and thats really saddening.
Is there any link to a video of the Kim Suhyeon lift? The guy explains well what happened but it would be nice to have a visual to go along with it rather than just taking your and his word for it.
The first time I heard of your channel was in Ramsey Dewey's channel several months ago. I have nothing to do with Olympic Weighlifting but I enjoyed your content to the point where I was really excited about the competition in Tokyo. After watching a few male and female categories, I got kinda confused and a bit disappointed. For a newcomer to this Olympic discipline like me some decisions were hard to understand and ultimately took some of the fun out of it. Especially when the Jury (by itself?) overruled a 2 split majority to accept the attempt. Kim's failed 140kg attempt was the overall sad highlight for me. I will definitely watch the final 100+ categories and would still recommend it to others. But be prepared to be puzzled by some decisions. Edit: I just saw Jin Yunseong's 3rd Snatch attempt with 185kg. And that's what I mean. It's so slight that I is really hard to follow.
I agree with this. it has always been my experience that a referee's strictness was inversely proportional to his former success as a lifter.I can't imagine(for example ) our past national champions giving red lights like we have seen in this Olympics....
The grit required to press out the bar when your technique fails you, is both impressive and a clear indication that the individual has just hit the peak of their capacity. Makes me want to cheer, to see them push so hard to hit the lift and overcome technical inefficiencies through sheer willpower. The only time I could see a judge needed is if an individual jerks instead of snatching, but even the most novicely acquainted with the sport, could instantly tell the difference of those movements.
The fact that the athlete performing an elite level weight and doing either a WR or PR for themselves while performing a pressout. Ay you strong, that’s so much harder! I get someone falling on their knee and standing back up is a thumbs up in CrossFit but a pressout? comon that’s way too harsh.
I agree completely. Let's allow the press out. Then let's allow the lifter to support the barbell in his belt and while we're at it and let the lifter supports himself in one knee if he needs it, or in the floor. Then let's add a stool or a bench for the lifter if he needs to sit. Then I think adding a rack would be a great addition.
Whenever I look at the elderly judges, which seem to have never even lifted a barbell, I find it absurd that we don't use past or current amateurs at the very least.
Completely agree 100%. I abhor the pressout as a casual fan (and a participant at one point in time). 1. There is no advantage 2. There is tremendous inconsistency in the judging It absolutely must go. Also the dropping the bar from shoulder height must go.
Holy shit just wait until you guys see the next video. “JUsT mAkE tHe LiFt BrO”
OK JUST SO WE ARE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. THE PRESS OUT IS A BIT OF A MISNOMER. THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS RARELY CALLED (IN COMPETITION FOR ADVANCED LIFTERS) DUE TO AN ATHLETE ACTUALLY “PRESSING” THE BAR INTO ITS FINAL POSITION. THE CALL USUALLY WILL COME FROM A SUBJECTIVE FLICKER OF THE ELBOW DURING THE CATCH OR THE RECOVERY PHASES.
Olympic lifting is daying cause many reasons and this is not one of them, first reason why olympic lifting is dying is cause it's a beta male sport cause it doesn't reward the user in any different/better way then other lifting stuff like calisthenics, powerlifting, strongman BUT there is ENORMOUS risks to it which can make you messed up for life. On top of that it's complicated for normal people another major factor is most weight lifters gets pushed steroids into their body at young age which makes people not wanna get into weighlifting.
Basicly weightlifting has 0 to give to people besides being a super toxic beta male sport that hopefully will have died out in 50 years or less time.
@@jonashuovila9287 It's already a dead sport.
@@09thespecialone Hopefully it does completly and gets buried 6 feet deep.
@@jonashuovila9287 Admit it, you just suck at weightlifting.
@@jonashuovila9287 Lol... like did you actually just go with your gut on all of this, Olympic lifting is actually statistically one of the safest sports in the Olympics. There are 2 main reasons that set it apart from strongman and a third that doesn't really count depending on who you talk to. 1. you miss a back squat in powerlifting you get crushed if your spotters fail, switch grip deadlifts are not natural and have decent chance of tearing a bicep, bench press is surprisingly most likely the safest, but a lot of strain on your back none the less, (more so deadlift and back squat) as for strongman, well... its pretty much risky moves city, but the guys are beasts so they rarely let it show. In weightlifting if your trained and miss a snatch or clean its almost always because you didn't pull high enough in which case the bar falls back to the ground and you walk away, and should you miss a jerk... the bar fall to the ground and you walk away, even after ridiculous failed saves... the bar falls to the ground and you walk away. throw someone who doesn't know what they are doing into any sport and watch them get hurt. as for weightlifters getting pushed steroids from a young age... of course doping is a problem in this sport, its a problem in every sport but yes more prevalent in this one, no successful program forces children to dope because physiologically its the most dumb thing you could do, no successful program would give athletes steroids until they were at least an advanced lifter either, simply because you would have basically the same result without them until that point. Steroids also more often than not cause muscle growth to rapidly leading to tendon and ligament tears, what idiot do you honestly think would give a child steroids so as to drastically increase chance of permanent injury for no noticeable gain. its also not complicated to understand, if the bar ends up over your head and your holding its probably a good lift. Its just hard to do, like literally everything at the elite level. one of the greatest weightlifters of all time is Lu Xiaojun, who started lifting late, is from a country Americans tend to think is shady, and is basically proven to not be on drugs just because his career is so long that if he was he would have torn something by now, on top of that steroids result in infertility more often than not and the guy has two kids, some Olympic lifters have been tested as many as 23 times a month, as much as a problem as it is, countries will do stupide things sometimes, and so will coaches/athletes, but its not like everyone in Russia's mother was on arms before they were born and then they were put on PED's right after birth. Besides... in America alone 1. steroid use is more accepted by adolescence and more widely used than ever before weather your in sports or not doesn't even really mater just ask any high school teacher. 2. if a kid thinks he'll never be good without steroids he will never be successful at any sport and i don't really care if he gets into weightlifting to be honest.
The jury at the olympics this year has been nuts. Incredibly harsh, inconsistent, absolutely destroying the sport.
And not only on lifting.
Well they’re ran by Iranians so..
if you’re not aware of the political climate in that country it should be of no surprise they value themselves over others 🤷🏻♂️
It's been brewing since the 2019 worlds, when nearly any shoulder/elbow shakes resulted in a trip to the jury. It's absolutely bonkers. I can't imagine the pressure of know you have to be explosive, but anything that might cause the bar to crash down on you at all and might cause an elbow or shoulder to not stay in perfect lockout. It's been a bananas past couple of years in weightlifting, and I agree w/ Zack, it makes the sport seem as inscrutable where the go/no go comes down to "their elbow wiggled, I guess." Any other sport has some kind of scoring system to take into account imperfections.
The goal everywhere is to eliminate all traditions...that’s olympics,NBA ,NFL,MLB ,horse racing,Strawberry festival,Surfing any thing that you used to do...It’s all being replaced or removed that’s the goal...don’t get it twisted the excuses don’t make since cause the truth is the truth here.
Do they even lift brah?
This rule is beyond archaic. It detracts from everything weightlifting is supposed to be. Solid video ZT.
I've seen people have their successful lifts taken away and didn't understand before this video. And apparently it's this. Ridiculous.
Seeing Kim's reaction to that absurd call was fucking heartbreaking.
imagine if they said "oh that long 100m time doesn't count because you naruto ran"... like, do they fear someone doing a press out is going to somehow beat everyone and invalidate the "real" technique?
bro the naruto running technique is op and you know it.
The naruto run would be instantly banned as it would break all the speed records
I had to look that one up, how many children watching cartoons also watch weightlifting ?
@@TheWatchman1893 don't you know, childhood is endless now, perpetual adolescence is the norm
@@TheWatchman1893 That comment was pretty childish
They let us grind in powerlifting, knees caving, cat backing, vomiting on the platform, so long as the bar starts and finishes where it's supposed to. Max effort is rarely pretty.
Powerlifting doesn't allow you to hitch the deadlift.
@@JHMninja89 Touché
Unlike those other things hitching is actually advantageous, I think that's the relevant distinction. Micromanaging technique can be justified to prevent a dangerous race to the (mechanically efficient) bottom. We pause in the bench because if we didn't we'd be competing to see who could make his ribcage into the best trampoline, and that's bound to end poorly.
What most PL feds get mostly right and WL (apparently) is getting wrong is not sweating pointless nonsense that would change nothing and hurt nobody if it were to be allowed.
@@JHMninja89 Strongman does though. Strongman allows almost anything as long as weight starts and finishes in the right place. Except double dipping in the viking press. That rule is dumb and needs to change.
I was gonna say take it a step further to strongman. Look at world records in strongman. If a ref like big z or Magnus ver calls a lift good then it is good and that is that. People online will complain to no end but the lift is good. This is what I like about strongman compared to WL or even PL. it simplifies things just a little more in this sense of calling lifts.
Q: How many people does it take to make a lift?
A: 9 - the athlete and the 8 people getting paid
Athlete: Are you guys actually being paid to do that ?
What made me sick during that session was the jury overruling Korea's good lift into no lift and overruling Ecuador's clearly no lift to good lift. Along with press out rule, the sick jury must be removed as well.
Yes I've been watching all of seb's video recaps as well. And hearing him talk about that poor lady who was so harshly judged, and then giving similar lifts to her competition. Made me sad man. I had never even heard of this lady before but I just felt so bad for her. I can only imagine she's worked like a son of a bitch for years to get on that stage. Then this happens. Imagine the mental burden after. Id be fucked up for at least a solid month. It's not like Olympic competitors get to redeem themselves after a few months or whatever. A lot can happen in life in four years. I'm sure most never get redemption.
3:53 hits the nail on the head. A press out does not put you at any advantage.
Screw it. They should make more rules and have everybody do a snatch and C&J using the Smith Machine. Then have new weight categories every year.
Spam the IWF page, USAW, whoever, anyone, everywhere, lets get rid of this stupidass subjective rule that only creates an extra barrier to entry in an already obscure sport.
Shi Zhiyong's second attempt for example... absolutely harsh and ridiculous call for it to not count when it was an incredible save and made lift
first squat jerk ever to be called as a press out, imagine being called for pressing out the bar when you literally cant, its actually impossible
That was one of the most incredible lifts I’ve ever seen
@@scottcrosswhite7865 yeah insane
@@basedstruggler3436 he has done even crazier saves when he was only 18
Ayy funny seeing you here Roger
You phrased it perfectly at the end. If someone is standing to face the crowd with the weight overhead it means they made the lift. They overcame the weight and conquered it. To then strip someone of that feeling and medal because "it was pressed out" is just ridiculous. It's like the person who made up this rule has never even attempted weightlifting.
Weightlifting is also a skill sport. Not juste brute strength. If they (weightlifters) want to be allowed to press, they can beg the IWF to bring back the Press. If not the case, just stick to the rule.
Bring back the clean and press damn it !
@@09thespecialone You're never gonna be able to press more than you jerk anyway. Did you even watch the video? It's technical as fuck already. It's not a dance choreography...
@@jeffriggins9106 Yes and you? Press < snatch < jerk. That's the correct order. A press out is usually at least a "quarter" press.
@@09thespecialone A press out is usually one elbow which is not fully locked out which then gets locked out after the bar is overhead. It's not a quarter press in the slightest.
Olympic judges are the most unreasonably harshest people on earth. Every time I watch an incredible lift get called back for slightest flicker, I want to jump out a window. Thanks for this excellent rant 👏
I think the jerk is a great lift but somebody strait up strict pressing or even push pressing 200+ kg is much more impressive.
"if someone stands with the bar overhead, with the crowd facing them, and it's the Olympics, that should be a made lift!" Nail hit on the head by Thor's 🔨 !! Was watching the sessions yesterday with my girlfriend and we were both of the same mind. "How is it an advantage? Why disallow the lift? Do these judges need to justify their existence by turning down lifts? Because it seems like except for the pressout, this sport can literally exist without judges at all!
still have dirty cleans, bounces before jerking and elbows tapping the knees in the clean. so there are reasons a judge exists.
@@ah7027 Here comes the literal dissection of comments police. It's like Zack said, it's 99% of what these judges turn down, so please point out the 1% we've already accounted for. I'll amend my comment for you, they do next to nothing instead of nothing. Is that better? Can you detect sarcasm or are you the kind of person who needs to be explained when something is a joke, said in jest or not literal?
@@ah7027 true but elbow taping the knee can result in wrist breaking and double dipping gives a clear advantage, although in a different world double dipping is allowed and no one ever misses a jerk again so no one cares about press outs
@@22448824 i actually had no idea that was the case so thanks for teaching me something new, still though i kind of see why elbow hitting the knee is bad simply because of safety, however, if it actually maters your breaking your wrist either way right so if you don't break your wrist and have the ability to save it then why not give that person the lift right, the way i see it is that if a lifter has the physically ability to make a great save why not let them. On the snatch if your knee touches the ground its a no lift... but can you imagine watching someone save a max snatch after there knee touches the ground. I would personally enjoy that.
100% agree!!!
Imagine Lasha snatches 227 and then presses out on the 273 jerk for 500, ha
It has been so weird and sad watching the weightlifting, where the people celebrate making the lift, and then the judges steal the lift from them. Honestly it seemed like they've been extra hard on the Americans, stealing silver medals from them. The one woman had her lift removed because she apparently dropped it before it came down to her chest or something like that? Like she didn't follow the bar down enough? Also, I'd love to see your breakdown of the Silver vs Bronze +87 KG Women's Event. Sarah Robles had what looked to be a perfect lift in the final clean and jerk that wasn't counted, but the British Lifter had a horrible lift where she almost fell of the platform and her elbow was shaking like crazy but they gave her the lift. All of the judging just seemed so odd for a lot of the weightlifting events in these Olympics.
It's not just the americans. These nutsacks have been doing it to everybody since they started implementing the rule.
That was a tough call and I agree with you it was wrong but Katherine Nye in the 76kg did actually win silver. Her lifts were around PB level and she placed 14kg below the gold medalist so think the bad call was ultimately was inconsequential to the final medal result.
The Australian got the luckiest call ever too, she thought it was a press out so didn't celebrate but it got passed
@@Franklin-zc2jo well no because she had a lift removed and the winner had a lift over which she had no control validated, so the gap would have been far smaller, so she could have made a 3rd attempt at lower than 148 to try for the gold…
@@Jackdackster sure anything is possible but she was already behind in the snatch and the gold medal winner was really in a class of their own so I really doubt she could have taken gold
We need more ammonia, heavy metal, bar slamming, and blood in weightlifting
That's already a sport, it's called Strongman
Yes
Yeah, like Alpine said, you might be looking into the wrong sport for that 😂
@@Trescera if I wasn't 5'5" maybe I would have picked up strongman instead of weightlifting haha
@@madmaxski yea I'm 6 foot 3... maybe if I was 200 pounds heavier and ok with that I would have picked up strongman instead of weightlifting
That German guy in 81 A too, absolutely mugged.
Nico lifted way more proper than Maurus. I think without the jury he had taken the 4th place.
Thank you. I've had this opinion for a long time. Glad someone with good reputation is saying it out loud.
I've never understood this rule when you see a lifter making a lift by pacing all over the platform, back, forwards and to the side even, even twirling around. But the don't make the lift because their elbow was a bit twitchy or their elbows just don't lockout the same way other lifters do.
Yea it makes zero sense
@@Jonathan-A.C. cool pfp
@@mihailmilev9909
Thank you
There's a tendency in people to just go with "the way we've always done things". But WHY do we do things this way? What is the POINT of the rules? IMO, if you can get the bar overhead without hitching it, then it's a good lift.
The rule that irks me the most, is still having hands on the bar as it returns to the ground, even after 3 white lights…
what? are you talking about powerlifting?
@@toximan2008 man, it really got under my skin… but rules are rules. Even if they are somewhat dumb at first glance.
@@ErikTails weightlifting.
@@ErikTails its a weightlifting rule where for both the snatch and clean and jerk you can't just drop it from overhead once you get buzzer, you have to keep your hands on the bar until it is below shoulder height
@@SamuelgStafford23 damn is this real? what a stupid rule
This video explains a lot. I’ve been fooling around with weightlifting adjacently to my regular strength training for months now, slowly getting more into it. I just learned of the press out rule after watching a clip of the American women’s heavyweight lifter get called on what appeared to be a clean lift. You’ll never get casual fans to understand and go along with this rule. Thanks for the video.
This is how I reacted to weightlifting in Tokyo 2020. Our lifter from Taiwan didn’t make it due to the competition. When we watch the replay, we were like “where the fxxk did he press?”
Thanks for this! The over complicating of rules across all strength sports, to me, is one of the biggest problems undermining what is otherwise one of the purest tests of human performance out there.
What makes weightlifting, power lifting, and track and field such great sports is the complete objectivity of the feat and ease of comparison. Anything that impedes that should be tossed out.
When I saw some of the no lifts from this I was equally baffled and glad you had a video on it. I was mad that a small SMALL elbow bend got red lights.
This video is SO good to see! Love your simple honesty!
As much as i celebrated Emily Campbell's fight for Silver (as a brit) i feel for Sarah Robles and her deflated "No? Ok..." after her lift. Also Maddie's last snatch, these lifts look good, they make the lift, you clap, red lights appear then you watch a slow motion replay of an elbow twitching 1mm and a lift taken away, it's a joke.
Mattie had a clear press out tho
@@larryboi2706 did you not watch the video? we're saying the press out rule is dumb
@@jimmierustler5607 Yeah I know, but I just meant that it was not a harsh call as it was a clear press out. By your words it sounds as you are surprised their lifts got turned over.
@@larryboi2706 Not really suprised, just annoyed. It's like if you saw a Javelin thrower throw a Javelin 120m and it gets ruled out because he grunted while doing it
@@jimmierustler5607 not the same. If you press-out it's a clean and jerk press, not clean and jerk
Feels like we are finally getting the ball rolling with this one. I’m glad. It’s very apparent whether the lifter was strong enough to make the lift or whether the weight was so heavy they had to “press” the bar…
The very next lifter after the Korean lifter in that session also had a lift go to jury review. Her lift was OK'd. I couldn't see a difference, and it definitely didn't make sense to me at the time. Glad I wasn't imagining that.
Next video: Kick out the don't-drop-the-bar-too-soon rule, ft Kate Nye 😢
100% agree! It has pissed me off so much that I have turned off the coverage a few times. Absolute nonsense. We want to see people lift large amounts but then we punish people who push themselves to lift more
Completely agree on the clean and jerk. There is really no reason to be disallowing press outs. Frankly, the clean and jerk could literally just be a lock it out overhead any way you can and it would probably not change much from what you see now and the judging would get much simpler.
Snatch is probably more complicated. The definition of what is a snatch and what isn’t is sort of complex no matter how you slice it. You might be able to simplify it by just requiring that the bar never rest on your body, but I wouldn’t be sure that there wouldn’t end up being some weird results and new techniques. But that might not be bad, on the other hand.
The objective vs subjective argument is the strongest point by far. Weightlifting has the ability to be one of the most objectively pure sports that exists and yet they've created subjective rules that does NOT fix any competitive aspect. Simplified clearly objective rules is the dream of almost all sports and is rarely possible. Most rules come about after some situation arises that could possibly affect the outcome of the competition. This isn't the case with the press out rule as like you stated pressing out only makes things more difficult. This rule only makes the sport worse. Period.
Not to mention Kate Nye's "miss" because she'd didn't hold the bar down to her shoulders after she made the lift 🙄
I honestly didn't believe it and was sad to see it happen even though I was hoping the Mexican lifter Fuentes (finished bronze) would take silver over Nye. Lucky the Ecuadorian finished so strong ahead and the medal tally was basically unaffected otherwise the event would have just been bitter all round
that one was put in for the equipment and for safety. Its a pretty easy rule to follow and she should have known better. She even admitted she made a mistake. I dont think it should be removed. Its also an easy rule to follow lol. you dont even have to slow the weight down. just dont let go early. I ride all of my lifts down to the ground to help control the bar. No reason not to. now a dumb rule is the fact you cant touch the bar with your foot. I know it was to stop people from kicking the bar out of anger. but a bit annoying for people who push it forward with the foot before lifting lol.
@@ah7027 It's a pointless rule, makes about as much sense as DQing someone for walking backwards off the platform
The literal only reason I have ever thought that the rule was implemented was for the sake of competition. A lifter who can perform a jerk at the same weight as their competition cleanly and without a press out arguably deserves more credit for the lift than one who requires pressing out for the lock out. One lifter is objectively demonstrating better technique and power if you don't need the press out. I had always thought it was for scoring purposes for that exact scenario. But the fact that it gets you red lights is an absurdly harsh punishment and discouraging to some of my athletes with issues in their elbows or upper body strength. They can keep it in the event of a tie imo, but to earn reds and bomb out cause the judges think your elbows get too groovy is awful. Love the vid Zack
I'm a powerlifter who watched weightlifting for the first time in the Olympics this year simply because the USA had a good team. Watching athletes from all over the world get a lift turned down because of the tiniest bit of wobble in the elbow was mind blowing. Your take is dead on, Zack.
Awesome video!!! Jury were ridiculous!!!
Do it brother, you've got support 💯
i think it's stupid too. And sometimes the judges are way too strict. a little wobble in their elbow they get red called.
Totally agree with you, if you get it up you get it up.
Thank you! Finaly someone said it loud.
If pressing does not present a biomechanical advantage then the rule must go.
Thank you!!! This video is very important and long overdue
Since there is no clean and press anymore, then there is zero reason to attempt to distinguish the jerk from the press (which no longer exists). Certainly the crazy enforcement of the judges and juries in the Olympics this year are underscoring the sheer stupidity of this orthodoxy. Snatch is one move to upright and overhead, C&J is two moves to upright and overhead. Go ahead and try to come up with a more efficient way of achieving that outcome - there ain't one. And some lifters have physical features that sure look like it's not a lockout - just look at poor Bernardin Matam - his snatch overhead position looks like he's pressing out, but it's just the way his arms work.
Quick lifts by textbook are catching motion movements (snatch and jerk). After you jump under the weight, you catch it with arms fully extended in one fluid motion. Extended arms mean straight elbows. Bending and rebending an elbow is a pressing act. The press out rule is not subjective. And arms proportions have nothing to do with it.
@@09thespecialone its extremely subjective and nobody mentioned arm proportions
I don't think the pressout rule should be abolished, rather it needs to be amended. Something like, if the jerk is caught overhead with bent arms and then the arms are extended (the slow pressout you sometimes see), it would be a no lift. But if the jerk is caught with straight arms and then a rebend of the elbows occurs (the kind of elbow flicker you always see), then this should be allowed. Something along those lines anyway. It still is quite subjective though.
Agreed.
Damn this reminds me of the video you made, laughing at the judging standards for the CrossFit open, specifically the section stating that a press out will be considered a 'good lift'
Great video coach. I was watching the live transmission the other day and was appalled as some of the lifters managed to save the lift with some incredible feats of strength yet the judges won't take them for valid because the technique wasn't correct. Had the same feeling you're just mentioning - to press the bar and save the lift is actually harder to do, what does it matter if it's less aesthetic ? The weight went overhead and that should be the end of it ffs
This is a couple years old now but still quite relevant in 2024. Great video essay on the topic.
good energy! woop, kickout the presout.
24.8.1
I think it would be extremely reasonable for the IWF to change the rule to something like "the athlete must have their elbows locked before reaching the upright position with their feet in line" (Essentially, you must lock the elbows before you stand in the snatch and bring your feet together in the jerk or stand from squat jerk)
On top of that, the jury should now only be there for challenge requests... whats the point of referees when the jury ultimately is deciding lifts.. just have 10 referees
To be fair, I don't really care about weightlifting as I'm more into powerlifting/strongman stuff. But man...I really do enjoy your content! You're the voice of reason and really a down to earth persona. I actually watch your videos due to all the information and interesting opinions.
Yeah C&J should be simple, ground to overhead
That monster Lasha having to worry about if I press out 270kg today, shouldn’t happen
Love what you do for this extremely athletic and phenomenal sport!!
I agree with you. As long as they can stand up and lockout for about 3 seconds, I'll count the lift
I think the jury should be gone too, like what is the point of having judges when they don't even make the call
i feel like the judges call if there's a mistake in the lift or not, and the jury should be there to say... well yes i saw the mistake too, but the lift was so cool we should give it to them anyway.
I'm on board. Been saying this. In FL high school weightlifting, the sport is heavily dependent on volunteer judges who are essentially students or teachers being asked to judge a clean and jerk. You can imagine the disproportion of calls during the jerk let alone a jury at the Olympics not being sure either. Like you said WHO CARES. Athletes who efficiently jerk, will win. Pressing out is a hope and a prayer. Please kick out the press out.
i do powerlifting and while watching the weightlifting yesterday i was rambling the whole time about how stupid that rule seemed to me! i am so glad a professional has given an opinion which completely aligned with mine, it is just so not logical, and these stupid rules exist in heaps of other disciplines. the fat useless pretentious judges need to sort their sheet out
just came from the 73kg 2020 championship discovering the press out rule. Bout to explode
We should be seeking to remove as much subjective judging from all sport as is possible. Why in the world do people defend tHe HuMaN eLeMeNt of judges stealing glory from competitors in sport? Whether it’s changing the way Simone Biles is scored, a completely arbitrary strike zone in baseball, or press outs and pointless rules on how you drop the bar in weightlifting, it’s all idiotic and should be purged from sport. Human error should always be minimized
Agree with your points completely - what can we do as a community to campaign for this to change?
Beautiful rant!
Oh good thing you made this video, me and brother were learning olympic lifts and were struggling with the technicalities of the snatch and muscling through everything. So we wondered if a motha just got on stage and basically just lat raised like 400lbs from the ground into a snatch hold and stood up what the hell would the judges even do.
Loved this. You got me all fired up too, lol
So you’re saying since crossfit allows press outs in the jerk, they’re doing something right that weightlifting isn’t? 😂
In all seriousness, great video as always Zack.
"Should we get breakfast?" Hahaha nice touch
This rule seems like a good excuse to rob somebody of a medal.
hurry up and post the comp before i sleep because i know its only going to be up for an hour!!
Commenting so this vid gets more traction, great content Zack, luv you❤️
It's a remnant of the Press era in Weightlifting (1928-1972). The rule was putted in place in order to distinguish the pressing motion lift (Clean and Press) and the catching motion lifts (Snatch and Clean & Jerk). Bending and rebending an elbow with a loaded barbell overhead almost to full lock out is indeed a pressing motion movement. A snatch is snatch not a snatch and press. And a jerk is a jerk. Not a jerk and press. Quick lifts are technical lifts for a reason. Each technical lift has its own style which must be mastered by the weightlifter. In a sense, the IWF is right to keep that rule in place by purism.
Excited for the press out removed and USA continuing to place 3,000th in the world in weightlifting.
There is actually just one rule in weightlifting and thats what you said when you described the lifts. Thats it. They have to be done in one fluid motion. Thats why the pressing out rule exist, to make sure the number of movements is respected. Great rant though, the calls sometimes can be abysmal and thats really saddening.
Is there any link to a video of the Kim Suhyeon lift? The guy explains well what happened but it would be nice to have a visual to go along with it rather than just taking your and his word for it.
The movement must be clean ,,
I was thinking this while watching the 81s. So many lifts over ruled
Good man Zack.
I guess as it's called the "Clean and Jerk" it has to be just that....
It wasn’t too long ago that weightlifters we’re making fun of crossfit for allowing pressouts
Kick out the press out, bring back the clean and press and the world will become a better place.
lmfao the Seb Ostr blip
The first time I heard of your channel was in Ramsey Dewey's channel several months ago. I have nothing to do with Olympic Weighlifting but I enjoyed your content to the point where I was really excited about the competition in Tokyo. After watching a few male and female categories, I got kinda confused and a bit disappointed. For a newcomer to this Olympic discipline like me some decisions were hard to understand and ultimately took some of the fun out of it. Especially when the Jury (by itself?) overruled a 2 split majority to accept the attempt. Kim's failed 140kg attempt was the overall sad highlight for me. I will definitely watch the final 100+ categories and would still recommend it to others. But be prepared to be puzzled by some decisions.
Edit: I just saw Jin Yunseong's 3rd Snatch attempt with 185kg. And that's what I mean. It's so slight that I is really hard to follow.
This sounds like a covert way of robbing dudes of lifts and favoritism
Olympic judges....
L M F A O
The rule might also affect warmup timings and tactical increases by coaches since it sometimes takes the jury 5 minutes to decide about shit
I agree with this. it has always been my experience that a referee's strictness was inversely proportional to his former success as a lifter.I can't imagine(for example ) our past national champions giving red lights like we have seen in this Olympics....
The grit required to press out the bar when your technique fails you, is both impressive and a clear indication that the individual has just hit the peak of their capacity. Makes me want to cheer, to see them push so hard to hit the lift and overcome technical inefficiencies through sheer willpower.
The only time I could see a judge needed is if an individual jerks instead of snatching, but even the most novicely acquainted with the sport, could instantly tell the difference of those movements.
Kim had my heart broken.
The fact that the athlete performing an elite level weight and doing either a WR or PR for themselves while performing a pressout.
Ay you strong, that’s so much harder! I get someone falling on their knee and standing back up is a thumbs up in CrossFit but a pressout? comon that’s way too harsh.
Just bring back the clean and press so we can see some monster presses !!!
Tela rants are best rants.
I agree completely. Let's allow the press out. Then let's allow the lifter to support the barbell in his belt and while we're at it and let the lifter supports himself in one knee if he needs it, or in the floor. Then let's add a stool or a bench for the lifter if he needs to sit. Then I think adding a rack would be a great addition.
Whenever I look at the elderly judges, which seem to have never even lifted a barbell, I find it absurd that we don't use past or current amateurs at the very least.
Where do we send our CVs to the IWF?
great video zack.... you and seb are right.... i hope we will are able to talk about the lifters in 3 years time
Completely agree 100%. I abhor the pressout as a casual fan (and a participant at one point in time). 1. There is no advantage 2. There is tremendous inconsistency in the judging
It absolutely must go. Also the dropping the bar from shoulder height must go.
I watched that final that he was talking about and yeah it was really hard to watch her get red lights after a 2mm elbow bend
I 100% agree with you Zack !!!
I’ll sign the petition!
As a trainee with elbows who physically cannot lockout, I cannot agree enough. Great video!
If you have lockout issues it is fine. That is ok according to rules if you tell them