Caesar feels like a servant that was meant to have another version with a more suitable representation (and much higher rarity) that never happened. Almost feels like Romulus-Quirinus took that spot.
Ruler class has a requirement that servants don't possess wishes for the holy grail, something even some saints don't fulfill His wish to redo his life to give Cleopatra a better marriage, a way for his assassins to stop from ruining rome, etc.
To add to your comment at 24:14 about Fate Rome. It feels like they both don't fully get Rome, but also refuse to ever show it in anything but a positive light. Even when Boudica went and shouted out RQ for being a god that doesn't regret sending Romans to murder her people, the story is told as RQ's interlude and how he is responding to it and Boudica is the one we fight and her anger causes Vercingetorix to be summoned as a ghost.
I lost that fight on purpose since you can continue even if you lose, kind of choice based. Yeah, I never liked Nero's depiction in Fgo, the other romans are either insane or have their character bastardized. Boudica all the way.
At least Nero had a scene in Last Encore which didn't shy away from exploring the darker side of the Roman Emperor. Shame we haven't gotten that explored properly in FGO but they probably don't want to disillusion her fans. FGO writers definitely have a bias that's especially noticeable in early servants. The longer it goes on without being addressed then the more solidified that bias becomes.
about the "Fate doesn't know how to do rome" i agree lol, but i kinda feel like Nero is the one exception depending on the media she's in in fgo she's kind of a mess, but in the first few Extra games i'd say she's pretty decent, i'd say the beast of sodom/beast Nero is pretty good too but i dunno if i'd say she's more of a christian servant or a roman one
@@thomaspunt2646 possible, but i can't really imagine the majority of the other European civilizations like France was any more influential over Japan, but their servants get pretty good characterizations like...come on, just read about the guy's story and it's easy to see why Caeser would be a big deal in history lol
Yeah, even if Nasu were to have a decent understanding of Rome (better than the average, as how Nero was so WELL depicted in OG Extra and CCC), Sakurai almost seems like someone that barely understood the assignment of inheriting every single roman thing to write about. Almost all Roman-related characters that come from her (every new FGO Servant) or are handed to her (Nero and Spartacus), they get their writing or design so mishandled you can only stare in disbelief.
When considering how well the fgo writers tend to handle Japanese or Asian servants (some better than others) they def do a decent job. Sure there are lots of liberties, but the stuff they pull for servants in Europe or the Americas are… interesting to say the least. Not all bad, but improvements can definitely be made.
His Rider self is probably the one that has all the good stuff. Considering how surprised he was about being a Saber and seeing how certain Servants, despite qualifying for multiple Classes, are well suited for a select few among them, this is most likely the case. But yeah, the writers’ ignorance is most likely to blame.
I knew you were going to tear Caesar apart from the way you talked about him for the past few weeks, and you did not disappoint in this video 😹 All jokes aside, early fgo really did kind of fumble the bag with a lot of its characters pre-Camelot But you didn't fumble the bag with this video, Yurie: well done and God Bless💯😇✝️
Sucks what Fate did to him. Feels like most Emperors didn't get anywhere near as much respect as they deserved. Edit: Caesar's design is easily the worst thing about him though.
@@darkhorse744 no I mean when they released Camelot I guess Romulus is A better example. Give us Rider Caesar Rider Jason Archer Heracles or Avenger Alcides Ruler OG timeline Morgan Archer Odysseus Avenger Boudica
Damn. Didn’t think they messed up that badly. At least it’s fun to see him and Cleopatra on screen. Well there was also that one time he was seemingly flirting (but not really I think) with that caster servant whose name I can’t even attempt to spell correctly. She was the one that wrote the 1,001 Arabian Nights. Anyhoodle now I want to see a video on Cleopatra.
Rome has got many notably historical and mythological figures, with numerous emperors ranging from the most profound statesmen to those damned by historians. And somehow no example given really fits... I dread to consider what they would do with Octavian. Edit: I guess Nero Beast could be alright? Given that the Book of Revelation was, from a historical perspective, written as a sort of comfort in times of prosecution mainly started by Nero. But that basically is more a Christian story about how Rome will fall to make way for the Kingdom of God, so Nero is just an antagonist for God to smite down in that context.
Being a bit hopeful with the dev/writers for a second (which is really hard considering FGO jp's entire 2024 being basically a type moon collab fest with the lonely exception of OC2) I could very much see Brutus (and Cassius) in Assassin class form if OC4 is really written with the themes of Divine Comedy in mind, like it's been hinted at. Brutus and Cassius, together with Judas, are considered by Dante Alighieri the worst sinners in Hell, getting forever devoured by Lucifer's mouths, as they are traitors of benefactors and authority. That's probably a good way they could give us a historically accurate Caesar, an "upgraded" version of the original like happened with super Dantes and BB Dubai (if it's gonna be another Nero alt then I have no hope for this franchise anymore)
Now knowing more of what they did to his character, I really hope we get a better version (probably the rider version) that better captures the political and military general
@@nicholase82 i mean...that's just a lostbelt, you described a lostbelt rn lol i think you meant words that weren't awful enough to get pruned but still steered away from PHH, but i think the premise of that would be too similar to Part 2 ... regardless, i'll take it if that means we get a better caeser and a better history involving rome lol
@@Necro-xy5ej Actual Lostbelts are dead-end worlds, but the Lostbelts we see in FGO appear to be artificially simulated histories, basically fiction, not actually real parallel worlds. Regardless, a theoretical FGO Part 3 would probably have more to do with the consequences of the ending of Part 2, whatever that ends up being.
Honestly, I don't feel like the Cleo/Caesar relationship in GO is a good one. Mostly just because Cleo feels like she's made into the overly obsessed partner in always attempting to force Caesar to lose weight in a bad comedy bit. Like, it's the near only thing the writers do when they're both on screen.
Caeser in this game is a pure gag character, anytime he shows up it's for the jokes, and that's honestly so disappointing i hope that if his Rider self shows up one day he can completely replace Saber Caeser, FGO normally keeps both versions of the same servant around for some reason (ex: Orion & Super Orion, even though they are extremely similar in personality...but at least Super Orion can also be used in serious things) but i could live with knowing Saber Caeser doesn't exist in Chaldea anymore lol
Amazing video as always! I think the added graphics, espcially the map that you made, did a great job of showing his infleunce and hoe Type Moon has really messed him up! Ceasar's character is so bad its almost worse than that glass i ate...
i think Caesar, Boudica, Romulus, and several other servants such as blackbeard or Hektor suffer in the lore department from being year one servants and just generally getting neglected as a result. they didnt get as much thought put into their creation at a time when fgo was still something of a cash grab and they constantly suffer for it. nero is her own entire can of worms
I guess the only reason why his skills are so low-ranked is because of gameplay balancing, not making him too OP although it did backfire severely since Incite made him a critical support and Crocea Mors making a very good budget damage dealer that puts many single target NP1 to shame. The artist made a very scary, thin and muscular version of him as April Fool's material, you think it will be his Rider version?
A bit unrelated but I find it very interesting how Caesar in Monster Strike (another gacha game) is literally the complete opposite of Fate's Caesar. While it is still by no means a good representation of the real life Caesar, I find his design and characterization much more interesting. Also, MS Caesar is just so spindly.
I've been having a horrible time getting over my FGO sluggishness, but these videos always make me appreciate the heroes actual lore. Caesar is one my favorite servants. Big frame and all also i swore to god Caesar had a line somewhere saying he choose to be large as a "large" emperor meant the Empire was doing well. I could soo be wrong but its been a hot ass minute.
Oh, regarding Charisma vs Incite. Charisma is both the 'charisma itself' and the capacity to command an army/country (country from B onwards), so it's explicitly separate from the political aspects of what Incite encompasses. So, in essence, Charisma makes so what you say is listened by the people and you are praised for it (regardless of content) and Incite is Political Lying, which doesn't necessarily come with popularity in toe.
Early Fate isn't kind to a servant's backround or their characterization, especially when they're low rank. Gameplay back then is more straightforward, skill effect are simple scale with one's rarity and didn't reflect their feats in real life. Have it been 4 or 5* from the beginning then perhaps it could be better. Still hoping for a Rider class with a slimer image and higher tactic skill.
I can go on a whole tirade explaining how I don't like any of the Roman characters' depictions, maybe besides Spartacus but what I really want to talk about is how weird the grading system is in fate after a while when you get go on long enough E you shouldn't have the skill, but you do D is is that you use the skill C she is basic proficiency with a skill B is I'm talented at this A have reached the Pinnacle of the skill EX depending on who's writing it can mean the absolute zenith or an exception to the rule I can't be the only one that thinks this is way too broad, way too vague if none of these amazing greatest generals of history are worse than a rank in tactics. What does an a rank tactic look like Power levels are nonsense. At least I know what they mean
Like most concepts in Fate, skill rank is a mixture of the objective and the subjective. Servant parameters have a lot of variables and their attributes and skills can change dramatically from what they had in life depending on many factors including something as simple as how they are viewed in the time period and area they are summoned in. Therefore vague categorization is pretty much the only reliable way to measure general ability. If you measure in more specific strokes then you'll never get any useful estimations required for the combat scenarios most Servants are involved in.
@kylepessell1350 I get where you're coming from fate. It has a lot of moving parts, and the power scaling of the characters is borderline nonsensical because a lot of times it comes down to how strong does the author want that character to be Gilgamesh is sometimes barely City level then he turns around and kills the sixth dimensional being like it's nothing but my ultimate issue is I can't give a clear-cut answer the difference between an A rank and a B rank in general every Dragon Ball Z fan understands the power levels are nonsense but I still know what they mean butt for fate an a rating strength could mean anywhere from I could wipe out a city to I could level a continent and that's not even bringing in the abilities
@@CrazyYurie now hear me out, imagine Avenger Caesar is his mentality during the last few seconds as he's dying being stabbed to death by all these people he spared and considered friends/family. in that moment of death he has an epiphany realizing he should have been more ruthless, more Savage and unforgiving towards his enemies. That he should have become the horrible tyrant his critics claimed he was. thus a Caesar who realizes how he should have ruled is born
@@CrazyYurie I see him more as the adoptive son avenging his father, in Octavian wasn't quite as skilled as Caesar was in a number of fields but he did have the talent of picking the right person for the right job. in a way kind of similar to Cao Cao
@@DarktheRelentless Knowing you lack skill in an area, and so finding someone who can do it for you, is something I'd consider a great skill for a leader.
It's been a while since I commented on one of your videos, but I'm already grateful to have commented on this video. You've cooked up some serious work. I feel like Rome's Servants (or related) in FGO fall into three categories - Favoritism or Creator's Pet - Shine in other Fate's Media - They don't give a shit Caesar stands out for the fact that he's treated like a joke to this day. I'm surprised that you didn't mention Caesar being a 3* Servant: when he should be a 5* according to everything you mentioned about PHH Caesar. PS: Honestly, I feel like some elements from FGO's Nero and FGO's Caesar could have been swapped as there are things in FGO's Nero that fit better with FGO's Caesar (and vice versa) PS2: I don't remember how many Servants were sent to FGO's Shadow Realm (F Tier), but Caesar would surely have good companions down there (including Boudica)
A shame but I'll be the one to say it. I like this Caesar. The whole thing feels like he doesn't want to fight anymore, like after so much war and the assassination by his most trusted, he doesn't have the same spirit as before. Things like his Grail Wish, his CE and his interlude shows a Caesar that is looking back to his life where he starts to wonder about a lot of the things he did and could've done. His interlude even has him facing his demon, talking about how despite all his achievement, he's a coward for not facing what's in front of him and even after that interlude, he's still trying to face it but he's also still hiding/running from it through the persona of a shady businessman. I see him as a hidden threat like Blackbeard where as much if a goof he is, underestimate him and it will be your mistake and someone who's reflecting in his life. He has gone through a lot and now as a servant who is now serving a Master and is reunited with Cleopatra, he starts to reflect and wonder if things can be better but he doesn't want to admit it and hides it, even from Cleopatra and his Master which is what his interlude is where he is revealing a hit to Fujimatu but ultimately only a little. That's how i see this version of Caesar, just because of his Interlude, his grail wish and bond CE.
FGO Caesar is a good interpretation of the character, but it shouldn't be the only one, especially in a series where the popularity and fame of your legends make your strengths
@@CrazyYurie I wish they did but that's the whole vibe I got from how they wanted to depict Caesar. A once Great Ruler who is now reflecting about his life.
The comparison between Caesar and Iskandar really highlights how to take liberties in a way that works, vs a way that doesn't. Iskandar's whole anime protagonist running on the power of friendship thing is clearly derived from the charisma he held in leading his army and led to some pretty solid scenes in Fate/Zero. He's not exactly 1:1 with his historical appearance but he has a good design that's recognizably Macedonian and doesn't whitewash him, which is refreshing in how often that happens with depictions of him. Caesar just departs from his well known appearance and characteristics for pretty much no reason and the liberties they take are just for jokes. It's such a waste. Imagine all the interesting character interactions you could do with a more historically accurate Caesar.
I actually think his depiction of a sleazy businessman is fairly accurate for what the saber incarnation represent. Caesar as the politician. Most of Caesar political career was built on Crassus money, and Crassus was absolutely the shadyest businessman in ancient Rome. And the first triumvirate actions were just as unscoupuous. Even before FGO i saw Caesar as a man willing to do all sort of shady business to finance his ambitions, even if he had an inclination toward generosity when he was ahehad. But the saber class do not depict him as his most powerful. To me Caesar mostly open up a question. Should servants always be depicted in their best class? If we got CasCu first, would he feel like a good Cu Chulainn? Nothing is too inaccurate about him, he just lack the things most people associate with Cu because those would appear in other classes(Riastrad when Lasagna?) I appreciate of FGO Caesar that they took many aspects from the man rather than the legend. Many of the things FGO depict are the same things he was mocked for by his friends and soldiers. Sometimed historical figures are glazed so much you forget they were humans with their own shortcomings. Ultimately the biggest flaw is what most people identified. He got too little exposure, and many of Caesar best traits are locked behind a Rider version that they just never released, and may never release. And that the Nerowano ruined Rome, but that is beating a dead horse. Edit: i actually made a sheet for assassin Brutus back when i enjoyed making my own servants. But it wasn't all that interesting. Don't remember if FGO was already around tho.
Reminds me of Time Squad's depiction of Caesar Focused mostly on the idea of the tyrant, similar to how Nobunaga is mostly focused on the idea of the demon king.
I guess in an ideal world, Caesar would be a Saber or Rider. With attacks that have him summon Legionaries into battle (We have those NPCs. C’mon devs, reuse those assets) and his NP being a team buff, probably referencing him Crossing the Rubicon
@@CrazyYurie The closest I can find right now is from the work CEASER "Let me have men about me that are fat" cause he doesn't trust men who have the strength to keep themselves from great indulgemce
Yes and one of my most favorite FGO fans like the most specially in JP servers 😁. Hell I even used some NA players level her up to 100😳😳😳and max all her stunts 😲😲😲?!
Caesar is a victim of early FGO writing, BUT his saber version is pretty well conceived. Keeping in mind that servants are a mixture of historical fact, mythological embellishments, and popular perception, Saber Caesar's character and writing makes a lot of sense. It's Caesar as he idealized his existence immediately prior to the Caesar-Pompey Civil War. His fatness is due to him thinking ideal kings are fat, because Caesar was ambitious, don't you know. His sword, Crocea Mors, is anachronistic because it comes from Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, so it's designed with some Arthurian/Fate Excalibur visual influence on a longsword from the AD 1100s. Etc, etc. He fell off when Cleopatra debuted, because FGO's B-team of event writers just recycle dual character gags forever (Tesla and Edison say hi), but also because the expanded cast of characters allowed for Caesar to be retired as a common event antagonist. FGO is now too late in its life to really care about going back to year 1 servants and updating/upgrading/re-releasing them. Rider class Caesar was probably never on the table, but by the time the devs decided that it was more important to fix their mistake of making Romulus a 3 star servant by updating him to a 5 star, Caesar didn't stand a chance. He's in the same boat as Boudica, who was left out of the Avenger Ordeal Call. There's just no time left in Part 2 to fix a year 1 servant. Maybe if FGO Part 3 actually becomes reality. Maybe. Until then, Saber Caesar is actually a halfway decent caricature of the real person, and servants are all caricatures of real, long-dead people anyway. Just ask Vlad III.
To give an example of how JP writers treat Western servants, if we flip the script, it can seem pretty funny. We basically make Cesar an absolute giga chad, makes sense when considering his importance to the western world (and by extension the rest of the world). Then we have Nobu, from a western perspective, we could sum up their character as a gun obsessed, anti religious (from his county perspective and based on his action) conqueror. It’s def a difference in how they are written and treated based on the writer’s understanding of history and their personal perspective of it
Yeah. I probably would have dropped it after London if Solomon showing up didn't make me interested, cause both Septum and Okeanos were really bad and annoying to read and London was pretty boring till the ending keeping me invested. Things got really good starting with The America Singularity and kept me coming back for more afterward.
Yeah FGO Devs was sucks for doing dirty to Chad Caesar 😤😤😤like what Yurie say's that they feels like they don't know how to deficit Rome characters correctly 😒😒😒. And maybe it's offended their EGO knowning that Western history was most awesome than there historical events(Japanese times)during the early days of Romans😅😅😅
Thing is, you can see glimmers of a good Caesar depiction in there. If nothing else his personality has that combination of self-serving scheming and dubious morality mixed with top-tier charisma that I would associate with the guy. Otherwise yeah, unfortunately the character does not fit the colossal legend he's based on. At least his relationship with Cleopatra is kinda sweet, with the bonus of giving a reason for keeping the otherwise questionable design choice that is his plus-sized figure. Salvaging his character would be an uphill battle, but if Jason, Spartacus and even Blackbeard could get better then I think a Caesar with good writing can also be in the cards someday.
So for me, this representation of Ceasar is... Frustrating. It's as if seeing the man Julius Caesar be pieced together by random fun facts you may find randomly in magazines or videos and be strung together into a perpetual bit of a character that never strikes any good material. For me, possibly the biggest issue is how they gave the guy Divinity but portray him completely incorrectly to why he should have that Divinity in the first place. The reason why Caesar would claim to be a descendant of Venus (Aphrodite) in spite of being in campaigns all the time and a political figure who would be better suited to claiming Mars (Ares) or Jupiter (Zeus) as god of choice is because of the gatherings after a battle. The feasts after winning a battle, the joy of being able to see your fellow soldier and possibly your family one more day, and the sense of comradery soldiers would feel for each other, he wanted to be remembered as part of the reason why they're having that feast. Feasts and gatherings were associated with Venus at this point in time and he wanted to be remembered as a good man first and foremost so he claimed to be a descendant of hers. And it worked. It worked possibly much better than he ever would have anticipated. It's a major reason we know him the way we do as a man struck down horrendously by a corrupt government rather than the vile things he did to get himself in that situation.
It's mentioned multiple times in events that Saber isn't Caesar's best class. He even says in his own interlude that his Saber version is his more business side than his fighting side. Although I'm hopeful his other forms like rider class might appear, for now we'll just stick with whatever this was.
Few things to point out that this Caesar might be base of William shakespere work ? So it make sense on why he was depicted as a joke when william wrote him as a play. The Rider caesar would definently fix him..... although most of japanese otaku prrfered women or gender bending servant than Accuracy of depiction.
I wonder if someone in DW hated Roman History in general, and Caesar in particular, and decided to express that malice in their version of Caesar. Even moreso than other poor interpretations of other figures from the early DW days of FGO, Caesar’s character assassination is so poor it feels like it’s a product of intentional malice. Why else would his NP be something so obscure except that it that makes him look so bad?
It is exactly the NP i would have give him if he was summoned as saber and i am an italian. I do think a lot of it was designed ad if they were planning a second version. But who know if the plan got scrapped or just we didn't get there yet. And yes, they did think very far ahehad. Eome servants that came out recently where named in the day 1 datamine
I dont care about his size because there are more bullshit bodies not built for the stunts theyre pulling off but yeah tbh i think the devs just hate him. I do too, but not enough to depict him awfully like that lmao
he's year 1 servant, made during time where dev don't even know how successful FGO will be. the amount of detail putting into making him probably mediocre at best 😅 they're probably plan to make 5 star version of him at some point but abandoned later.
@@CrazyYurie he has nore rhen enough yet consunes nore growibg its szize while forcing the negative aspects of kapitalism everywhere ... thats prettymuch how US imperialsm was critizized and karikaturized in the past Heck the fact hes all like " i have a book with my history read it but i refuse to actually tell it myself" while said book beibg propaganda eveb helps that . If i didnt k ew this was supposed to be ceasar and i would describe such a charakter peoole would assune thats uncle sam(or putin)
@@CrazyYurie by makeing him fat and hungry they purpisfully turned him into the idea of " big country consuming more countrys and wealth to increase its size" which feels like a purposfully sidekick to how the mejirerstoration was seen by most japanease after the 1000 years of togugawa peace . he is nothing but a greedy and fat guy with a hot wife that he by all accounts of the logic shouldnt deserve arguably in some countrys ( like germany) uncle sam is often presented like that to make fun of USA and their imperialism . he just comes conquers and devours he is nothing but imperialism and not julius ceasar sadly doubled down by " i came i saw i conquored" being his only real quote and him constantly saying" i dont talk about my past jsut read my book" like he doesnt wanna confuse facts and propaganda
Well one thing to consider is that the game is made by people who are not historians. Moreover with the game developers being not western, they probably don't fully understand Roman history and it's significance to western history
I disagree a bit with Caesar’s grade and depiction, although not the best depiction, it should be more than F, more like D+ or C-, like his charisma lol, it shows enough of his actual lore, but no much of the impact he had, Fate going more his obsure lore it actually interest, I didn’t know it until fate. I think the way he was was a side effect of FGO rushed story in the early chapters, outside of a few moments, most servants depicts were shafted and worst for Septem which was just Ave Nero season. Also didn’t see any Caesar design should have been used for a servant Emperor Vitellius.
Still an F due to how important Caesar to History. I'm fine giving Nero a D because Nero in history wasn't anything that important aside the christian persecution. but Caesar? Oh fate Caesar depiction is a slow burn.
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
Caesar feels like a servant that was meant to have another version with a more suitable representation (and much higher rarity) that never happened.
Almost feels like Romulus-Quirinus took that spot.
Now that you mentioned it, Konstantinos' kit could have worked as a 5 star ruler/rider Caesar
If he was a Ruler or Rider class Servant and...well a not so large frame. He would've been as cool as Iskandar.
Ruler class has a requirement that servants don't possess wishes for the holy grail, something even some saints don't fulfill
His wish to redo his life to give Cleopatra a better marriage, a way for his assassins to stop from ruining rome, etc.
Rider fits him way better
To add to your comment at 24:14 about Fate Rome. It feels like they both don't fully get Rome, but also refuse to ever show it in anything but a positive light. Even when Boudica went and shouted out RQ for being a god that doesn't regret sending Romans to murder her people, the story is told as RQ's interlude and how he is responding to it and Boudica is the one we fight and her anger causes Vercingetorix to be summoned as a ghost.
I lost that fight on purpose since you can continue even if you lose, kind of choice based. Yeah, I never liked Nero's depiction in Fgo, the other romans are either insane or have their character bastardized. Boudica all the way.
At least Nero had a scene in Last Encore which didn't shy away from exploring the darker side of the Roman Emperor. Shame we haven't gotten that explored properly in FGO but they probably don't want to disillusion her fans. FGO writers definitely have a bias that's especially noticeable in early servants. The longer it goes on without being addressed then the more solidified that bias becomes.
Caesar becoming a Rider would mean him being weak to Assassins.
That in of itself is actually bloody perfect
That's good. :D
Julius looking like he had one too many trips to Little Caesar's
about the "Fate doesn't know how to do rome" i agree lol, but i kinda feel like Nero is the one exception depending on the media she's in
in fgo she's kind of a mess, but in the first few Extra games i'd say she's pretty decent, i'd say the beast of sodom/beast Nero is pretty good too but i dunno if i'd say she's more of a christian servant or a roman one
I mean, Rome probably wasn't that influential to Japan, so maybe Type Moon doesn't realize how badly they messed up.
@@thomaspunt2646 possible, but i can't really imagine the majority of the other European civilizations like France was any more influential over Japan, but their servants get pretty good characterizations
like...come on, just read about the guy's story and it's easy to see why Caeser would be a big deal in history lol
christian, definitely, given that irl nero... didn't do all that
Ave, true to Caesar.
Degenerates like you belong on a cross.
(I'm kidding, obviously. I love Fallout New Vegas. :3)
Yeah, even if Nasu were to have a decent understanding of Rome (better than the average, as how Nero was so WELL depicted in OG Extra and CCC), Sakurai almost seems like someone that barely understood the assignment of inheriting every single roman thing to write about. Almost all Roman-related characters that come from her (every new FGO Servant) or are handed to her (Nero and Spartacus), they get their writing or design so mishandled you can only stare in disbelief.
When considering how well the fgo writers tend to handle Japanese or Asian servants (some better than others) they def do a decent job.
Sure there are lots of liberties, but the stuff they pull for servants in Europe or the Americas are… interesting to say the least. Not all bad, but improvements can definitely be made.
Perhaps this speaks to their greater familiarity with Japanese and Asian history. FGO is a japanese game with japanase developers after all.
His Rider self is probably the one that has all the good stuff. Considering how surprised he was about being a Saber and seeing how certain Servants, despite qualifying for multiple Classes, are well suited for a select few among them, this is most likely the case.
But yeah, the writers’ ignorance is most likely to blame.
I knew you were going to tear Caesar apart from the way you talked about him for the past few weeks, and you did not disappoint in this video 😹
All jokes aside, early fgo really did kind of fumble the bag with a lot of its characters pre-Camelot
But you didn't fumble the bag with this video, Yurie: well done and God Bless💯😇✝️
Rome Total War track as you list of Caesar's conquests is a great choice. Hoping that our guy Gaius Julius Caesar gets his due, eventually.
It seemed like the best idea. :D
Sucks what Fate did to him.
Feels like most Emperors didn't get anywhere near as much respect as they deserved.
Edit: Caesar's design is easily the worst thing about him though.
I really hope that
He gets A redone version like Lancelot both him and Jason.
@@christiansmith1895 100%, they got done SO dirty, they deserve the upgrade.
Also, did Lancelot get something new?
@@darkhorse744 no I mean when they released Camelot I guess Romulus is A better example.
Give us Rider Caesar
Rider Jason
Archer Heracles or Avenger Alcides
Ruler OG timeline Morgan
Archer Odysseus
Avenger Boudica
@@christiansmith1895 Ah, yeah that'd be awesome.
I still have to dig into the others. We don't really have many Romans, tbh.
Damn. Didn’t think they messed up that badly. At least it’s fun to see him and Cleopatra on screen. Well there was also that one time he was seemingly flirting (but not really I think) with that caster servant whose name I can’t even attempt to spell correctly. She was the one that wrote the 1,001 Arabian Nights. Anyhoodle now I want to see a video on Cleopatra.
Scheherazade
Rome has got many notably historical and mythological figures, with numerous emperors ranging from the most profound statesmen to those damned by historians. And somehow no example given really fits... I dread to consider what they would do with Octavian.
Edit: I guess Nero Beast could be alright? Given that the Book of Revelation was, from a historical perspective, written as a sort of comfort in times of prosecution mainly started by Nero. But that basically is more a Christian story about how Rome will fall to make way for the Kingdom of God, so Nero is just an antagonist for God to smite down in that context.
11:21 COWARD! GIVE ME MY HOUR LONG VIDEO!
x_x
Being a bit hopeful with the dev/writers for a second (which is really hard considering FGO jp's entire 2024 being basically a type moon collab fest with the lonely exception of OC2) I could very much see Brutus (and Cassius) in Assassin class form if OC4 is really written with the themes of Divine Comedy in mind, like it's been hinted at. Brutus and Cassius, together with Judas, are considered by Dante Alighieri the worst sinners in Hell, getting forever devoured by Lucifer's mouths, as they are traitors of benefactors and authority. That's probably a good way they could give us a historically accurate Caesar, an "upgraded" version of the original like happened with super Dantes and BB Dubai (if it's gonna be another Nero alt then I have no hope for this franchise anymore)
Now knowing more of what they did to his character, I really hope we get a better version (probably the rider version) that better captures the political and military general
I've theorized that if we ever get a part 3 of the story we would go to actual parallel worlds. So we could meet A Caesar who was never assassinated.
@@nicholase82 i mean...that's just a lostbelt, you described a lostbelt rn lol
i think you meant words that weren't awful enough to get pruned but still steered away from PHH, but i think the premise of that would be too similar to Part 2
... regardless, i'll take it if that means we get a better caeser and a better history involving rome lol
@@Necro-xy5ej Actual Lostbelts are dead-end worlds, but the Lostbelts we see in FGO appear to be artificially simulated histories, basically fiction, not actually real parallel worlds. Regardless, a theoretical FGO Part 3 would probably have more to do with the consequences of the ending of Part 2, whatever that ends up being.
Hopefully we get an SSR Ruler Augustus Ceasar to make up for this mess.
Honestly, I don't feel like the Cleo/Caesar relationship in GO is a good one. Mostly just because Cleo feels like she's made into the overly obsessed partner in always attempting to force Caesar to lose weight in a bad comedy bit. Like, it's the near only thing the writers do when they're both on screen.
Caeser in this game is a pure gag character, anytime he shows up it's for the jokes, and that's honestly so disappointing
i hope that if his Rider self shows up one day he can completely replace Saber Caeser, FGO normally keeps both versions of the same servant around for some reason (ex: Orion & Super Orion, even though they are extremely similar in personality...but at least Super Orion can also be used in serious things) but i could live with knowing Saber Caeser doesn't exist in Chaldea anymore lol
Amazing video as always! I think the added graphics, espcially the map that you made, did a great job of showing his infleunce and hoe Type Moon has really messed him up!
Ceasar's character is so bad its almost worse than that glass i ate...
i think Caesar, Boudica, Romulus, and several other servants such as blackbeard or Hektor suffer in the lore department from being year one servants and just generally getting neglected as a result. they didnt get as much thought put into their creation at a time when fgo was still something of a cash grab and they constantly suffer for it. nero is her own entire can of worms
I guess the only reason why his skills are so low-ranked is because of gameplay balancing, not making him too OP although it did backfire severely since Incite made him a critical support and Crocea Mors making a very good budget damage dealer that puts many single target NP1 to shame.
The artist made a very scary, thin and muscular version of him as April Fool's material, you think it will be his Rider version?
Early in my fgo life ceasar was my go to servant for crit support
What if Lesengle was just waiting for you to drop this video, and they drop a brand new 5* Caesar who is a Grand servant next week.
Caesar isn't qualify for being a Grand servant. There is still other servant who are better than Caesar like Augustus and Constantine I
@@xdbobxd181 Aurelius is another candidate for top tier Roman Emperor but that would break poor Zenobia's heart if I summoned him.
A bit unrelated but I find it very interesting how Caesar in Monster Strike (another gacha game) is literally the complete opposite of Fate's Caesar. While it is still by no means a good representation of the real life Caesar, I find his design and characterization much more interesting. Also, MS Caesar is just so spindly.
Caser: god dammit im not fat, my spirit origins just has more spirtons!
For those curious there is concept art of a skinny Julius Ceaser on his Type Moon wiki page
I've been having a horrible time getting over my FGO sluggishness, but these videos always make me appreciate the heroes actual lore. Caesar is one my favorite servants. Big frame and all also i swore to god Caesar had a line somewhere saying he choose to be large as a "large" emperor meant the Empire was doing well. I could soo be wrong but its been a hot ass minute.
Oh, regarding Charisma vs Incite. Charisma is both the 'charisma itself' and the capacity to command an army/country (country from B onwards), so it's explicitly separate from the political aspects of what Incite encompasses.
So, in essence, Charisma makes so what you say is listened by the people and you are praised for it (regardless of content) and Incite is Political Lying, which doesn't necessarily come with popularity in toe.
Early Fate isn't kind to a servant's backround or their characterization, especially when they're low rank. Gameplay back then is more straightforward, skill effect are simple scale with one's rarity and didn't reflect their feats in real life. Have it been 4 or 5* from the beginning then perhaps it could be better. Still hoping for a Rider class with a slimer image and higher tactic skill.
I can go on a whole tirade explaining how I don't like any of the Roman characters' depictions, maybe besides Spartacus but what I really want to talk about is how weird the grading system is in fate after a while when you get go on long enough
E you shouldn't have the skill, but you do
D is is that you use the skill
C she is basic proficiency with a skill
B is I'm talented at this
A have reached the Pinnacle of the skill
EX depending on who's writing it can mean the absolute zenith or an exception to the rule
I can't be the only one that thinks this is way too broad, way too vague if none of these amazing greatest generals of history are worse than a rank in tactics. What does an a rank tactic look like
Power levels are nonsense. At least I know what they mean
Like most concepts in Fate, skill rank is a mixture of the objective and the subjective. Servant parameters have a lot of variables and their attributes and skills can change dramatically from what they had in life depending on many factors including something as simple as how they are viewed in the time period and area they are summoned in. Therefore vague categorization is pretty much the only reliable way to measure general ability. If you measure in more specific strokes then you'll never get any useful estimations required for the combat scenarios most Servants are involved in.
@kylepessell1350 I get where you're coming from fate. It has a lot of moving parts, and the power scaling of the characters is borderline nonsensical because a lot of times it comes down to how strong does the author want that character to be Gilgamesh is sometimes barely City level then he turns around and kills the sixth dimensional being like it's nothing but my ultimate issue is I can't give a clear-cut answer the difference between an A rank and a B rank in general every Dragon Ball Z fan understands the power levels are nonsense but I still know what they mean butt for fate an a rating strength could mean anywhere from I could wipe out a city to I could level a continent and that's not even bringing in the abilities
You know his animation update has him summoning a few soldiers to attack with. Maybe he has limited control over an army now.
28 stab wounds!!
It took until Olympus for them to do Rome properly.
I don't know if that's more hilarious or sad
Even then... Romulus barely showed up.
@@CrazyYurie Maybe they wanted to save the best for last? I don't know
The way I stand: Boudica is just plain offensive, Caesar is how did you mess up this bad?
Imagine Caesar as a avenger class servant would pull my money
That sounds like an alter.
@@CrazyYurie now hear me out, imagine Avenger Caesar is his mentality during the last few seconds as he's dying being stabbed to death by all these people he spared and considered friends/family.
in that moment of death he has an epiphany realizing he should have been more ruthless, more Savage and unforgiving towards his enemies. That he should have become the horrible tyrant his critics claimed he was.
thus a Caesar who realizes how he should have ruled is born
@@DarktheRelentless I'd submit that "Avenger Caesar" you describe existed in real life. His name was Octavian.
@@CrazyYurie I see him more as the adoptive son avenging his father, in Octavian wasn't quite as skilled as Caesar was in a number of fields but he did have the talent of picking the right person for the right job.
in a way kind of similar to Cao Cao
@@DarktheRelentless Knowing you lack skill in an area, and so finding someone who can do it for you, is something I'd consider a great skill for a leader.
It's been a while since I commented on one of your videos, but I'm already grateful to have commented on this video. You've cooked up some serious work.
I feel like Rome's Servants (or related) in FGO fall into three categories
- Favoritism or Creator's Pet
- Shine in other Fate's Media
- They don't give a shit
Caesar stands out for the fact that he's treated like a joke to this day. I'm surprised that you didn't mention Caesar being a 3* Servant: when he should be a 5* according to everything you mentioned about PHH Caesar.
PS: Honestly, I feel like some elements from FGO's Nero and FGO's Caesar could have been swapped as there are things in FGO's Nero that fit better with FGO's Caesar (and vice versa)
PS2: I don't remember how many Servants were sent to FGO's Shadow Realm (F Tier), but Caesar would surely have good companions down there (including Boudica)
You mean how many servants I've given F's to? Mephistopheles, Phantom, Dobrynya, Boudica, Lancer Artoria, and now Caesar.
Brutus as an assassin with a full buster deck
A shame but I'll be the one to say it. I like this Caesar. The whole thing feels like he doesn't want to fight anymore, like after so much war and the assassination by his most trusted, he doesn't have the same spirit as before. Things like his Grail Wish, his CE and his interlude shows a Caesar that is looking back to his life where he starts to wonder about a lot of the things he did and could've done. His interlude even has him facing his demon, talking about how despite all his achievement, he's a coward for not facing what's in front of him and even after that interlude, he's still trying to face it but he's also still hiding/running from it through the persona of a shady businessman. I see him as a hidden threat like Blackbeard where as much if a goof he is, underestimate him and it will be your mistake and someone who's reflecting in his life. He has gone through a lot and now as a servant who is now serving a Master and is reunited with Cleopatra, he starts to reflect and wonder if things can be better but he doesn't want to admit it and hides it, even from Cleopatra and his Master which is what his interlude is where he is revealing a hit to Fujimatu but ultimately only a little. That's how i see this version of Caesar, just because of his Interlude, his grail wish and bond CE.
FGO Caesar is a good interpretation of the character, but it shouldn't be the only one, especially in a series where the popularity and fame of your legends make your strengths
They ought to elaborate on that more.
@@CrazyYurie I wish they did but that's the whole vibe I got from how they wanted to depict Caesar. A once Great Ruler who is now reflecting about his life.
The comparison between Caesar and Iskandar really highlights how to take liberties in a way that works, vs a way that doesn't. Iskandar's whole anime protagonist running on the power of friendship thing is clearly derived from the charisma he held in leading his army and led to some pretty solid scenes in Fate/Zero. He's not exactly 1:1 with his historical appearance but he has a good design that's recognizably Macedonian and doesn't whitewash him, which is refreshing in how often that happens with depictions of him.
Caesar just departs from his well known appearance and characteristics for pretty much no reason and the liberties they take are just for jokes. It's such a waste. Imagine all the interesting character interactions you could do with a more historically accurate Caesar.
I actually think his depiction of a sleazy businessman is fairly accurate for what the saber incarnation represent. Caesar as the politician.
Most of Caesar political career was built on Crassus money, and Crassus was absolutely the shadyest businessman in ancient Rome. And the first triumvirate actions were just as unscoupuous. Even before FGO i saw Caesar as a man willing to do all sort of shady business to finance his ambitions, even if he had an inclination toward generosity when he was ahehad. But the saber class do not depict him as his most powerful.
To me Caesar mostly open up a question. Should servants always be depicted in their best class? If we got CasCu first, would he feel like a good Cu Chulainn? Nothing is too inaccurate about him, he just lack the things most people associate with Cu because those would appear in other classes(Riastrad when Lasagna?)
I appreciate of FGO Caesar that they took many aspects from the man rather than the legend. Many of the things FGO depict are the same things he was mocked for by his friends and soldiers. Sometimed historical figures are glazed so much you forget they were humans with their own shortcomings.
Ultimately the biggest flaw is what most people identified. He got too little exposure, and many of Caesar best traits are locked behind a Rider version that they just never released, and may never release. And that the Nerowano ruined Rome, but that is beating a dead horse.
Edit: i actually made a sheet for assassin Brutus back when i enjoyed making my own servants. But it wasn't all that interesting. Don't remember if FGO was already around tho.
Crassus helped Caesar early on, but the real money came from the Gallic wars.
His characterization in fate is so disappointing I’m not even that mad on his design I’m mad they depict him like this
Perfect ending
25:12 okay , that was just hurtful
Reminds me of Time Squad's depiction of Caesar
Focused mostly on the idea of the tyrant, similar to how Nobunaga is mostly focused on the idea of the demon king.
And yet all FGO's Caesar does is complain about being a Saber and try to scam people.
I felt like he was supposed to get another version but they forgot to do it
Having some Scruples in comparison to Columbus is not a very high bar
I guess in an ideal world, Caesar would be a Saber or Rider. With attacks that have him summon Legionaries into battle (We have those NPCs. C’mon devs, reuse those assets) and his NP being a team buff, probably referencing him Crossing the Rubicon
Technically he does summon some legionaries in his extra attack.
Honestly i think because Julius was Mr propaganda.
I think making him a caster could be interesting.
I guess he was a victim of being introduced to soon in the game.
I'm not so sure about that.
I dont really play that game but I did enjoy lots of anime about Fate stuff. Still, listening to your explanations is very fun.
I think I read somewhere that Ceaser's build here is because of a way that Shakespear described and portrayed him in one of his plays
Do you know where that might come from?
@@CrazyYurie The closest I can find right now is from the work CEASER "Let me have men about me that are fat" cause he doesn't trust men who have the strength to keep themselves from great indulgemce
oh Fun the dragon staker is next 😅
Yes and one of my most favorite FGO fans like the most specially in JP servers 😁. Hell I even used some NA players level her up to 100😳😳😳and max all her stunts 😲😲😲?!
Very cool video, love the work and time u invest into this videos
Thanks! :D
Light the bon fire boys, it's roasting time
Caesar is a victim of early FGO writing, BUT his saber version is pretty well conceived. Keeping in mind that servants are a mixture of historical fact, mythological embellishments, and popular perception, Saber Caesar's character and writing makes a lot of sense. It's Caesar as he idealized his existence immediately prior to the Caesar-Pompey Civil War. His fatness is due to him thinking ideal kings are fat, because Caesar was ambitious, don't you know. His sword, Crocea Mors, is anachronistic because it comes from Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, so it's designed with some Arthurian/Fate Excalibur visual influence on a longsword from the AD 1100s. Etc, etc.
He fell off when Cleopatra debuted, because FGO's B-team of event writers just recycle dual character gags forever (Tesla and Edison say hi), but also because the expanded cast of characters allowed for Caesar to be retired as a common event antagonist.
FGO is now too late in its life to really care about going back to year 1 servants and updating/upgrading/re-releasing them. Rider class Caesar was probably never on the table, but by the time the devs decided that it was more important to fix their mistake of making Romulus a 3 star servant by updating him to a 5 star, Caesar didn't stand a chance. He's in the same boat as Boudica, who was left out of the Avenger Ordeal Call. There's just no time left in Part 2 to fix a year 1 servant.
Maybe if FGO Part 3 actually becomes reality. Maybe. Until then, Saber Caesar is actually a halfway decent caricature of the real person, and servants are all caricatures of real, long-dead people anyway. Just ask Vlad III.
To give an example of how JP writers treat Western servants, if we flip the script, it can seem pretty funny. We basically make Cesar an absolute giga chad, makes sense when considering his importance to the western world (and by extension the rest of the world). Then we have Nobu, from a western perspective, we could sum up their character as a gun obsessed, anti religious (from his county perspective and based on his action) conqueror. It’s def a difference in how they are written and treated based on the writer’s understanding of history and their personal perspective of it
Funny, since I'd still take Nobbu seriously.
Early FGO was stuuuuuuuuupid.
Yeah. I probably would have dropped it after London if Solomon showing up didn't make me interested, cause both Septum and Okeanos were really bad and annoying to read and London was pretty boring till the ending keeping me invested. Things got really good starting with The America Singularity and kept me coming back for more afterward.
SHIZAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Yeah FGO Devs was sucks for doing dirty to Chad Caesar 😤😤😤like what Yurie say's that they feels like they don't know how to deficit Rome characters correctly 😒😒😒. And maybe it's offended their EGO knowning that Western history was most awesome than there historical events(Japanese times)during the early days of Romans😅😅😅
I believe to this day that this man was a politician joke
Not impossible
Well at least they did Romulus better.
Thing is, you can see glimmers of a good Caesar depiction in there. If nothing else his personality has that combination of self-serving scheming and dubious morality mixed with top-tier charisma that I would associate with the guy. Otherwise yeah, unfortunately the character does not fit the colossal legend he's based on. At least his relationship with Cleopatra is kinda sweet, with the bonus of giving a reason for keeping the otherwise questionable design choice that is his plus-sized figure.
Salvaging his character would be an uphill battle, but if Jason, Spartacus and even Blackbeard could get better then I think a Caesar with good writing can also be in the cards someday.
Let's get real. Every king servant in FGO should be rulers. Since they are a bunch of RULERS. But, Billy the GOAT will beat them all ofc.
So for me, this representation of Ceasar is... Frustrating. It's as if seeing the man Julius Caesar be pieced together by random fun facts you may find randomly in magazines or videos and be strung together into a perpetual bit of a character that never strikes any good material. For me, possibly the biggest issue is how they gave the guy Divinity but portray him completely incorrectly to why he should have that Divinity in the first place.
The reason why Caesar would claim to be a descendant of Venus (Aphrodite) in spite of being in campaigns all the time and a political figure who would be better suited to claiming Mars (Ares) or Jupiter (Zeus) as god of choice is because of the gatherings after a battle. The feasts after winning a battle, the joy of being able to see your fellow soldier and possibly your family one more day, and the sense of comradery soldiers would feel for each other, he wanted to be remembered as part of the reason why they're having that feast. Feasts and gatherings were associated with Venus at this point in time and he wanted to be remembered as a good man first and foremost so he claimed to be a descendant of hers. And it worked. It worked possibly much better than he ever would have anticipated. It's a major reason we know him the way we do as a man struck down horrendously by a corrupt government rather than the vile things he did to get himself in that situation.
I don't think the developers like julius that much.
Maybe it's a good thing they've never made Servants for US Presidents
It's mentioned multiple times in events that Saber isn't Caesar's best class. He even says in his own interlude that his Saber version is his more business side than his fighting side. Although I'm hopeful his other forms like rider class might appear, for now we'll just stick with whatever this was.
Few things to point out that this Caesar might be base of William shakespere work ? So it make sense on why he was depicted as a joke when william wrote him as a play. The Rider caesar would definently fix him.....
although most of japanese otaku prrfered women or gender bending servant than Accuracy of depiction.
There's nothing to indicate that.
I wonder if someone in DW hated Roman History in general, and Caesar in particular, and decided to express that malice in their version of Caesar. Even moreso than other poor interpretations of other figures from the early DW days of FGO, Caesar’s character assassination is so poor it feels like it’s a product of intentional malice.
Why else would his NP be something so obscure except that it that makes him look so bad?
It is exactly the NP i would have give him if he was summoned as saber and i am an italian.
I do think a lot of it was designed ad if they were planning a second version. But who know if the plan got scrapped or just we didn't get there yet.
And yes, they did think very far ahehad. Eome servants that came out recently where named in the day 1 datamine
@@noukan42
But would you portrayed him exactly as FGO has so far?
@@stevenchoza6391 no, i am just saying it is not the total faikure some people make it out to be.
I dont care about his size because there are more bullshit bodies not built for the stunts theyre pulling off but yeah tbh i think the devs just hate him. I do too, but not enough to depict him awfully like that lmao
he's year 1 servant, made during time where dev don't even know how successful FGO will be.
the amount of detail putting into making him probably mediocre at best 😅
they're probably plan to make 5 star version of him at some point but abandoned later.
ceasar tpo me feels like a karikature of imperialism instead of ceasar himself
How so?
@@CrazyYurie he has nore rhen enough yet consunes nore growibg its szize while forcing the negative aspects of kapitalism everywhere ... thats prettymuch how US imperialsm was critizized and karikaturized in the past
Heck the fact hes all like " i have a book with my history read it but i refuse to actually tell it myself" while said book beibg propaganda eveb helps that . If i didnt k ew this was supposed to be ceasar and i would describe such a charakter peoole would assune thats uncle sam(or putin)
@@CrazyYurie by makeing him fat and hungry they purpisfully turned him into the idea of " big country consuming more countrys and wealth to increase its size" which feels like a purposfully sidekick to how the mejirerstoration was seen by most japanease after the 1000 years of togugawa peace .
he is nothing but a greedy and fat guy with a hot wife that he by all accounts of the logic shouldnt deserve arguably in some countrys ( like germany) uncle sam is often presented like that to make fun of USA and their imperialism . he just comes conquers and devours he is nothing but imperialism and not julius ceasar sadly doubled down by " i came i saw i conquored" being his only real quote and him constantly saying" i dont talk about my past jsut read my book" like he doesnt wanna confuse facts and propaganda
@@wallycastagnir Interesting. That's very interesting. I'd never heard this perspective before. :o
Well one thing to consider is that the game is made by people who are not historians. Moreover with the game developers being not western, they probably don't fully understand Roman history and it's significance to western history
And yet they do other characters quite well. Also you don't need to be a massive history person to know how big of a deal Caesar is.
I do wish he was done better as a character. His whole characterization is a mess. I don't like it at all.
At the end of the day it's still shit😂😂😂
I disagree a bit with Caesar’s grade and depiction, although not the best depiction, it should be more than F, more like D+ or C-, like his charisma lol, it shows enough of his actual lore, but no much of the impact he had, Fate going more his obsure lore it actually interest, I didn’t know it until fate.
I think the way he was was a side effect of FGO rushed story in the early chapters, outside of a few moments, most servants depicts were shafted and worst for Septem which was just Ave Nero season.
Also didn’t see any Caesar design should have been used for a servant Emperor Vitellius.
Still an F due to how important Caesar to History. I'm fine giving Nero a D because Nero in history wasn't anything that important aside the christian persecution. but Caesar? Oh fate Caesar depiction is a slow burn.
I'll have a proper answer to this in the next video.