As a Dutchman I have to say that the debate about authenticity has been polluted by politics from the beginning. The current kingdom was politically involved in nation building and a possible Frisian history did not come out well in that
Klopt! The House of Orange kingship in NL was only, what, 50-60 years old at the time, and had already been locked in battle with democratic forces. Revolution was all around and the newly established royal prerogative had to be defended at all costs. An indigenous history was the last thing the puppet regime wanted!
It’s also important for newcomers to the topic to understand the context within which the material exists. Nearly everyone quickly finds the “answer” to the question of authenticity. Yet questions seem more likely to lead somewhere constructive.
for those who are also utter novices: The Oera Linda Book is a manuscript written in imitated Old Frisian, purporting to cover historical, mythological, and religious themes of remote antiquity, from 2194 BCE to 803 CE. Among academics in Germanic philology, the document is considered to be a hoax or forgery. - wikipedia
Yes, that is the one. The consensus is based almost exclusively on the work of these two men - the more recent of whom (Jensma) references the older (Vinckers). Jensma’s main work is identifying the authors - or more accurately, arguing in favor of a preexisting theory about the authorship. Vinckers examined the grammar of a few pages and compared it mainly to Gothic, Greek and Old High German. It is a fascinating manuscript in all its facets. The hoax doctrine has been the established consensus from the start, but the debate has not been scientific for the most part - with one side refusing to engage and the other being pushed to the fringe. Glad you are interested and I hope you find enough information to form an opinion either way!
Jan Ott and I and others (see e.g., forum.Oeralinda.org) have continued to review and research the source material and revise/refine the English. Of course, the past versions were well done, but this final edition features significant stylistic improvements, some new/improved footnotes, and more nuanced translation of some passages, as well as a new layout that is easier to read and has the source text printed in “Standskrift” (a font based on the original lettering system), rather than Latin capitals - not to mention a new introduction and additional linguistic resource section.
Has no one analysed the spiritual values, the complex philosophical truths contained within or compared the descriptions of matriarchal societies and laws in other ancient manuscripts .? It seems those so called scholars wherent even intetested in the content of the book, they where only concerned that it condradicted what they thought they knew, and if where to be genuine, all their previous understanding of the past would be undermined. The fact that the latest analysis was never published practically proves it was genuine otherwise the results would no doubt be published widely
Those are intriguing questions. Jensma does comment on the spiritual aspects of the manuscript and, beyond viewing them as symbolic of religious modernism and humanism that were then on the ascent, he seems to discount what he calls “believers” as misunderstanding a deliberate mockery of the values professed in the manuscript. There is an entire thread of argument against reactionary and new age interpretations of the material.
@@TheBrucepix It is Abrahamism that is "modern". If I trace my ancestry back through fragments of "Neanderthals" (Jotnar), genes, then we have been in Europe about 5 Million years. I have been in Europe 1250 times longer than the existence of Abrahamism.
@@arthurrobey4945 A problem with the European diaspora is that many don’t understand their heritage, many more don’t even know anything about their own lineage or ancestral mix. The melting pot works as designed.
The video was well done, but nothing in it provided an argument for the authenticity of the OLB. It was like you summarized the arguments against its authenticity. What was your goal? Was it to persuade people to believe the book is a hoax?
My aim was simply to present the most often cited arguments of academia, and point to the resources available to delve deeper into the topic of authenticity or learn more about Codex Oera Linda.
There are many arguments in favor of authenticity, but since the position of hoax-believers is that OL is patently fake and that this would long have been established, it is worth making clear that this assumption is built on quicksand.
Well, the series is intended to introduce then revisit topics. So there is time for that. On the other hand, my positions - other than those relating to the translation- are not really the focus of the channel. This is an open source project.
@@TheBrucepix I understand... you're doing great. Maybe just giving a bit too much weight to mainstream academics (mainly establishment cretins in my opinion). But then again, if I think doing better, I should make video's myself. Will watch it again later today.
@@CyberTribalism Thanks! I like to think that I am not giving anyone weight, but equipping people for the encounters that are inevitable in the OL context.
I will probably do a counterpoint, summarizing the arguments, e.g. of Ottema. This one took me a few weeks to prepare. The other will take equally long and I have an old dog and two jobs, plus I’m disabled, so it’s a matter of finding the time/energy. Not to mention the work on the translation that is more or less on its way to publication.
There is another investegator in de Netherlands, named Eelco de Boer he found also special things here like dutch place names in other countries. He olso said that the greek gods came from the Netherlands. He is olso talking about Zeeland and Walcheren...I dont know if they, Ott and he, already met each other. If you want to know more about his work I can send you a link to start
We must remember that the evidence suggests that before the disaster of Abrahamism, all of Eurasia was Dharmic. (The Law of natural consequences). The true Catholic religion that everyone from the Sioux of the Great Plains to the Japanese was under various iterations of the Great Wheel, such as the swastika. The period before the onset of Abrahamism was orders of magnitude longer than that after. (BC was a lot older than AD), therefore the blending of the Dharmic traditions was far more complete. To this day, our Mongol brothers erect a pole to represent the Great Tree of Life that we Saxons call Irminsul, around which they hold council.
@@arthurrobey4945 Yes , we are taught to ignore the past. Generally, it is argued to be unknowable - except through very arcane fields of knowledge which restrict access to the source material, often in the name of preservation. You bring up several important facts. Thanks for sharing your understanding!
I’d be very grateful for a like and a comment! Thanks for stopping by!!
liked and commented immediately bcuz you suggested it so nicely. 🙂👍
As a Dutchman I have to say that the debate about authenticity has been polluted by politics from the beginning.
The current kingdom was politically involved in nation building and a possible Frisian history did not come out well in that
Klopt! The House of Orange kingship in NL was only, what, 50-60 years old at the time, and had already been locked in battle with democratic forces. Revolution was all around and the newly established royal prerogative had to be defended at all costs. An indigenous history was the last thing the puppet regime wanted!
This approach is a great way to challenge followers of the hoax doctrine to evaluate their position.
It’s also important for newcomers to the topic to understand the context within which the material exists. Nearly everyone quickly finds the “answer” to the question of authenticity. Yet questions seem more likely to lead somewhere constructive.
for those who are also utter novices:
The Oera Linda Book is a manuscript written in imitated Old Frisian, purporting to cover historical, mythological, and religious themes of remote antiquity, from 2194 BCE to 803 CE. Among academics in Germanic philology, the document is considered to be a hoax or forgery.
- wikipedia
Yes, that is the one. The consensus is based almost exclusively on the work of these two men - the more recent of whom (Jensma) references the older (Vinckers). Jensma’s main work is identifying the authors - or more accurately, arguing in favor of a preexisting theory about the authorship. Vinckers examined the grammar of a few pages and compared it mainly to Gothic, Greek and Old High German. It is a fascinating manuscript in all its facets. The hoax doctrine has been the established consensus from the start, but the debate has not been scientific for the most part - with one side refusing to engage and the other being pushed to the fringe. Glad you are interested and I hope you find enough information to form an opinion either way!
Also, feel free to ask anything you like. I may have an answer or a suggestion for where to find one.
I purchased the Ott translation a few yeaers ago, why is there a need for another english translation? Is his work lacking?
Jan Ott and I and others (see e.g., forum.Oeralinda.org) have continued to review and research the source material and revise/refine the English. Of course, the past versions were well done, but this final edition features significant stylistic improvements, some new/improved footnotes, and more nuanced translation of some passages, as well as a new layout that is easier to read and has the source text printed in “Standskrift” (a font based on the original lettering system), rather than Latin capitals - not to mention a new introduction and additional linguistic resource section.
Has no one analysed the spiritual values, the complex philosophical truths contained within or compared the descriptions of matriarchal societies and laws in other ancient manuscripts .?
It seems those so called scholars wherent even intetested in the content of the book, they where only concerned that it condradicted what they thought they knew, and if where to be genuine, all their previous understanding of the past would be undermined.
The fact that the latest analysis was never published practically proves it was genuine otherwise the results would no doubt be published widely
Those are intriguing questions. Jensma does comment on the spiritual aspects of the manuscript and, beyond viewing them as symbolic of religious modernism and humanism that were then on the ascent, he seems to discount what he calls “believers” as misunderstanding a deliberate mockery of the values professed in the manuscript. There is an entire thread of argument against reactionary and new age interpretations of the material.
@@TheBrucepix
It is Abrahamism that is "modern".
If I trace my ancestry back through fragments of "Neanderthals" (Jotnar), genes, then we have been in Europe about 5 Million years. I have been in Europe 1250 times longer than the existence of Abrahamism.
@@arthurrobey4945 A problem with the European diaspora is that many don’t understand their heritage, many more don’t even know anything about their own lineage or ancestral mix. The melting pot works as designed.
The video was well done, but nothing in it provided an argument for the authenticity of the OLB. It was like you summarized the arguments against its authenticity. What was your goal? Was it to persuade people to believe the book is a hoax?
My aim was simply to present the most often cited arguments of academia, and point to the resources available to delve deeper into the topic of authenticity or learn more about Codex Oera Linda.
@@TheBrucepix
Watch with amusement as Mr. Thomas Kuhn cleans the Academic ivory tower of all Hubris.
There are many arguments in favor of authenticity, but since the position of hoax-believers is that OL is patently fake and that this would long have been established, it is worth making clear that this assumption is built on quicksand.
I also would like to see you go deeper in on arguments pro authenticity.
Well, the series is intended to introduce then revisit topics. So there is time for that. On the other hand, my positions - other than those relating to the translation- are not really the focus of the channel. This is an open source project.
@@TheBrucepix I understand... you're doing great. Maybe just giving a bit too much weight to mainstream academics (mainly establishment cretins in my opinion). But then again, if I think doing better, I should make video's myself. Will watch it again later today.
@@CyberTribalism Thanks! I like to think that I am not giving anyone weight, but equipping people for the encounters that are inevitable in the OL context.
I will probably do a counterpoint, summarizing the arguments, e.g. of Ottema. This one took me a few weeks to prepare. The other will take equally long and I have an old dog and two jobs, plus I’m disabled, so it’s a matter of finding the time/energy. Not to mention the work on the translation that is more or less on its way to publication.
There is another investegator in de Netherlands, named Eelco de Boer he found also special things here like dutch place names in other countries. He olso said that the greek gods came from the Netherlands. He is olso talking about Zeeland and Walcheren...I dont know if they, Ott and he, already met each other. If you want to know more about his work I can send you a link to start
Thanks, a link would be great!! According to Jensma and Vinckers, of course, the place names and gods are coincidental, or imagined.
We must remember that the evidence suggests that before the disaster of Abrahamism, all of Eurasia was Dharmic. (The Law of natural consequences).
The true Catholic religion that everyone from the Sioux of the Great Plains to the Japanese was under various iterations of the Great Wheel, such as the swastika.
The period before the onset of Abrahamism was orders of magnitude longer than that after. (BC was a lot older than AD), therefore the blending of the Dharmic traditions was far more complete.
To this day, our Mongol brothers erect a pole to represent the Great Tree of Life that we Saxons call Irminsul, around which they hold council.
@@arthurrobey4945 Yes , we are taught to ignore the past. Generally, it is argued to be unknowable - except through very arcane fields of knowledge which restrict access to the source material, often in the name of preservation. You bring up several important facts. Thanks for sharing your understanding!