A great video and I applaud your effort! The story of the decipherment of Maya hieroglyphs is often overshadowed by that of Egyptian hieroglyphs; though I find the former to be a much more thrilling story. If I may, I would like to offer a point of elaboration and clarification about the emblem glyphs at 17:19 in your video. You correctly showed that the upper glyph block is the Emblem Glyph of Palenque and the lower one of Copan, however, the names you mentioned - Lakamha and Oxwitik (should be Uxwitik in Classic Maya by the way) - are not translations of the Emblem Glyphs, but toponyms of the cities and their surrounding areas. Emblem Glyphs specifically refer to the ruling polity of a city. Emblem Glyphs (EG’s) consist of two parts: a basic part and a variable part. Let’s focus on the EG of Palenque. The two elements on the left side of the glyph block - which actually is a single glyph - is the glyph //K’UH//, the general term for “god”, but in EG’s is actually an underspelling of the word //K’UH-lu// for k’uhul, the adjective “god-like, divine, sacred”. The two circular elements in the upper right section of the glyph block are part of the glyph for //AJAW//, generally meaning “lord, king, noble”. Together these to glyphs form the basic part of k’uhul ajaw, “divine lord”. The remainder of the glyph block is the variable part. In case of Palenque it consists of a squarish main sign //BAAK// for “bone, captive” and the syllable //la// formed by the upside-down howling faces. Together they spell the word //baakal//. Here the -al suffix functions as a locative suffix with the meaning of “place of …”. Taken as a whole, the EG of Palenque spells out k’uhul baakal ajaw, or “divine Baakal lord”. Of course there are some exceptions, such as the emblem glyph of the site of Caracol in Belize, which spells out K’uhul K’antumaak, with k’antumaak a term of as of yet unknown meaning. But in most cases an EG conists of k'uhul [ variable part] ajaw.
Well, if you read...all it’s about decoding, discovering , conquering....all names Europeans. It seems scholars have an inferiority complex. The Mayan people can read Mayan, Aztecs...Chibchas, etc...they still do. Wanna take credit and steal history it’s a joke.
Many years later Knorozov was awarded the "Orden del Águila Azteca" by the Mexican government, which is the maximum honor that a foreigner can receive from mexican authorities
Knorozov has been erected a statue in Mérida, Yucatan in 2018. It depicts him and Asya the cat! About the cat - Knorozov was a big cat lover and always had cats. He would credit his cats in his works and would be gravely upset if editors removed them.
Fun fact: in the Philippines, where 300+ years of Spanish rule was delegated to Mexico, we call our Markets, “Palenque/Palenke” instead of Mercado. One of the many Mayan/Aztec words embedded into Philippine modern vocabulary.
Funny to see the portraits of Thompson and Knorosov on one screen. If you didn‘t know the story you would have guessed wrong about who is the villain! Note : Anyone who uses the force of authority instead of scientific argument is toxic and a millstone on your neck.
Anyone who drapes the force of authority in the clothing of "the science" is toxic, and a millstone round humanity's collective neck. There is no one final authority in science other than TRUTH. We who pursue science must always seek always the truth, for nothing else can help explain the world (and how the world really works) to us.
This is an amazing and inspirational story from an academic standpoint, but it’s completely heartbreaking from a human one. Unlike Ancient Egyptian, the Mayan script (and civilization as a whole) was lost because of a deliberate effort by a single group of people to wipe it out over the course of just a few decades. Even though DeLanda provided the key do deciphering it, he also was one of the men who caused it to be lost. What kind of monster destroys a cultures books? Great video, so glad I discovered this channel.
Of all the 'cradles of Civilization', Meso-America is the youngest but in many ways we know more about the ancient Chinese or Egyptians than the Mayans from 700 yrs ago.
The same deliberate attempt happened in Egypt. The Romans closed all the "pagan" temples. Christians and muslims chiseled out lots of stone writing and pictures, and tried to wipe out the native ancient Egyptian language. It only survived in Coptic churches, just as Latin is only spoken in Christian churches today. Later on, European visitors burned papyri documents as fuel for fires or wrote over top of them, and the local Arabs used it as toilet paper.
John Eric Sidney Thompson almost single-handedly stagnated and held back research about Mayan civilization until his death in 1975. He based much of his work on Spanish mistranslations. Thompson argued that the Mayans had a "priest-peasant" class structure, that their writing was purely esoteric with no historical value, that the glyphs had no phonetic component (which was proven false even before he died), that they practiced "slash and burn" agriculture, he dated their Preclassic period too late, he argued that they used sails for water transportation (even though they used canoes), he erroneously conflated many deities as one moon goddess (and Mayan descendents today now believe that the Moon goddess is the wife of the Sun god), and he argued that the Mayans lived in small agricultural communities and left the religious centers uninhabited. Contemporary research is fighting to correct false claims in conjunction with other disciplines. Many Mesoamerican experts argue that Thompson's views were a product of his English heritage and socio-political orientation which he later projected on to his research.
*“Incidents Of Travel In Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan”* - I love old book titles. They have the most vague, unexciting, and unmemorable sounding names, when so often the content within was some of the most descriptive, exciting, and iconic to this day for it’s groundbreaking material.
It's kinda insane that a lot of our knowledge of this script is only known because of a red army soldiers discoveries in the ruins of Berlin during WW2
I really do not understand the comment you made. Seems you might be saying that the Russians overall might be rather dumb or uneducated. The Russian Library is one of the largest and complete in the world. They also are extremely smart overall and have and did have schools of the utmost kind. Perhaps take a peek at their museums. That will perhaps give you a new perspective. Sincerely, Sentebey
@@467-k1m my comment does not say that at all it’s insane that we only know about the language because a guy looted books during one of the last battles of the Second World War has nothing to do with him being Russian.
I still remember in 1980s as a boy reading old books saying that the Mayan cities were only ceremonial centers, without permanent residents. Even more amazing, I found an old school book with an article on Martian canals.
Yes! When I was 12 years old I went to Chitzen Itsa. The archaeologists themselves - are the tour guides. My tour group was made to sit on the grass near the cenote. Imagine my shock - instead of deep, cutting-edge research and knowledge - they explained nonsense like: "This is not a city. Nobody lived here. They built monuments for ceremony. Gathered for ceremony. Then left." I told the archeologist - "look harder. You'll find the residential districts. But you haven't yet - because you haven't looked!" I smiled, thinking I'd be patted on the head as a bright, young student. Instead there was a vicious frown, and I was scolded like a fool. I tried saying - there's no possible way that this level of monumental building can be achieved without a city. Thousands of people residing here. These buildings are the result of not only regular taxation, but spoils of war, and years of prosperity. A highly stratified and organized government. There were institutions teaching engineering, and astronomy. (I pointed at the astronomical observatory building.) For God's sake they even had giant stadium for soccer matches here - playing Rubber Ball. This city was large! Temples, grand, huge, impressive - are like having a cathedral: like Notre Dame, and huge soccer stadiums for the world cup. This was not only a city: it was extremely cosmopolitan. I'm sorry; there's just no way in hell that a bunch of people went to the jungle every so often - and stacked up stones with this result. About as dumb as saying Paris was built like that... When he start arguing (cruelly) back with me, I grew frustrated. I don't know if I said it out loud...how can people so smart - be so stupid? When they say sites like gobekli tepe were not cities - and hunter-gatherers built it - I just have to laugh. If you go into archaeology, yet, underestimated the intelligence of ancient people - you shouldn't be in the field. We mustn't forget; the vast majority of dumb theories about ancient people - originate in prejudice. For some reason it is really damn difficult for old-gen white guys to imagine Native Americans living a very modern lifestyle in cities. The Mayans did not run around half-naked with painted bodies and feathers in their hair - hunting parrots in the woods. They did not "occasionally come together to form temp cities" they lived in them. Ironically Mel Gibson's Apocalypto shows their lifestyle more accurately. An extremely wealthy elite presiding over masses of peasants and slaves. Shopping in the market, and importing exotic, trendy goods from hundreds of miles away. Buying their children the latest talking bird pet craze - they have to be the first on the block to get it. I asked the question, how can highly educated academics believe nonsense? But I already know the answer. Idealizing the giants in the field - instead of questioning them.
As bad as it is, it's much better than the progress we've made on almost all the other mesoamerican scripts. There's still no progress on Zapotec, isthmian, teotihuacan and mixtec writing.
Thank you. The Aztec may get the popular press coverage but I'm fascinated by the Maya. One of my favourite times of my life was 3 months backpacking to see the remains of their culture.
Brilliant! MANY thanks! Small point: the name of the decipherer of Egyptian is correctly spelled ChAmpollion. Knorozov also worked on the Indus Valley Harappan script and Rapanui Rongorongo. Both still await decipherment.
Thank you! Did not know about Knorosov's other work. I personally don't think those scripts will ever be deciphered without some major additions to the available corpus.
Saw video title, saw channel title, heard the voice isn’t one of those slow drawn out historian voices that puts me to sleep, instantly subscribed! Thanks man love this content
Ok so I just watched the new Black Panther movie, and I was surprised to see they use Maya script on place names and the like. I was like “wait is Maya writing something we know how to recreate accurately?” Then I got recommended this video and I learned that we actually know more about the writing system of the Maya than I previously assumed! Thanks for making me learn something new today :)
A really informative video, thank you. I remember reading back in the early 80s that a few names could be read, but to now know 90% of the script can be deciphered is amazing. It's just sad to think of what was lost - religion has a lot to answer for.
Wen I was a freshman in college in 1986 I was lucky to have Dr. Bill Fash as my archaeology professor. He specialized in the Maya at Copan, and worked with David Stuart. He was in awe of Stuart, who was very young then and was featured in many slides he'd present of his work in Copan. Even then much of the Maya glyphs had been deciphered by Stuart. And I haven't thought about that class (I was a business student who was just interested in archaeology and anthropology) in many years, but the second David Stuart was mentioned in this video a whole bunch of memories came flooding back, funny how that works! Dr. Fash had a replica of an incredibly detailed, incredibly thin, incredibly elaborate ceremonial knife he had found on one of his digs that he would pass around the class... the skill it took to make that without breaking it is unreal.
Videos like this make me feel so insignificant. I love how someone can be so passionate about something to learn all that stuff about anything at all. I can't stay focused long enough to read the directions on how to cook a corndog. Have to open the freezer door at least 3 times. Wait was it 45 seconds or 55? I'm just glad people like you exist. If it was up to people like me we'd never figure out this stuff.
I’m starting from the beginning to listen to all of your thoughtful, educational, wonderful work. I don’t write comments on each one, but I just want you to know how much I appreciate them. Thank you so very much!
Dude I can't tell you how exciting watching the video was, I am a massive nerd, so hearing about how the language was deciphered bit by bit just made me giddy and excited
To decipher logo syllable glyphs or script to read Maya know how? A long tale, but truly mind blowing! It's good for everybody whenever attempted destruction fails.
Great to have your thorough progression of the deciphering process over the decades and references to other ancient languages. Interesting to see that it took so many non-Mayans to work on the effort and to produce the final success. Thanks for your well-illustrated lecture!
This always broke my heart. I’m thankful to those scholars who tried to understand and decipher a lost script. I’ve hated Spain and especially the church for the horrors and Holocaust they brought to the Americas for their greed and hypocrisy.
THANK GOD the Spanish conquered the Maya and ended their practice of human sacrifice. The Maya routinely sacrifices hundreds, and on some days, thousands of men, women and children to their gods. They did this by decapitation, but at other times by cutting the victim's heart out while the person was still alive. The removal of an actively beating heart was considered a great offering to their gods. The Spanish converted the Maya to peaceful Catholics, and it was a GREAT thing this happened.
@@ruthc8407 thank god Mexico gained its independence and shoved the greedy racist bastards back to their country and stopped giving them wealth that they squandered. And Not like burning innocent people as witches isn’t fun and full of meaning in ye olde country, right? Or inbreeding. That’s a cool Spanish thing to do too! Ooh! And hypocrisy like in this instance! 😬
I wished there was an adjacent contemporaneous development of a simplified Mayan script, like you would find in Egyptian hieratic/demotic and Chinese clerky script. You would still have the prestige Artistic script used in calligraphy art and everyday simplified script.
@@AncientAmericas as far i can tell is there was no sociopolitical reason for a simplified script to be developed during thr pre colonial era. The Mayan hieroglyphics script was used to communicate from one Nobility to another, to flex their political influence and such.
I bet in those times writing was an exclusive thing that very few knew and the everyday person didn't need anyway. It's like talking today about differential equations: well few people know how to read them, manage them and actually have the need to do so , you need a few years of training to get to do that, and the everyday person actually doesn't have a use for it. So there's no need to develop an everyday simplified notation for differential equations apart from what there is in place.
@@magtovi it's not that simple as some nebulous "need" and it's wrong to think people from deep antiquity were widely illiterate. Just consider the middle and early late bronze age civilisations of the eastern Mediterranean, literacy was actually quite high. So something else must be in play we are not sure what exactly is at play , well maybe not we there's probably some experts that know why.
I wish I had a better answer to explain such a tragedy but it's worth pointing out that that was a very different time. People didn't discern between the spiritual and secular like we do today. Back then, those were the same thing and spiritual concerns informed action for better or worse. De Landa probably thought he was doing the best thing possible for the Maya and their welfare, even if we find it completely abhorrent and tragic today. Our values and morals have been enormously influenced by the enlightenment which allows a division between spiritual and secular matters. The Spanish had no such benefit.
It could be argued that well-meaning missionaries seeking to "educate" indigenous folk thought they were doing "God's will" by destroying knowledge of their ancient ways, and that the Church is more at fault than Spain was. We know, however, that one hand washed the other in this - the Church and the State both sought advantage in the New World, each for their own reasons, and used each other to accomplish mutually sought outcomes. This relationship existed in almost all Old World cultures which colonized the New World. That's the 30,000 ft. overview, anyway.
braindead religion caused this... they were so narrowminded that what they did had to be the only way to do things... instead of learning and admiring that things can be done in more than one way...
What's cool is that a monument dedicated to Knorozov was erected in Yucatan depicting him and his cat just like in the photograph that we saw in the video. I suppose it's his favorite photo of himself lol.
Yuri was a WWII survivor. I believe the many horrors he had seen and experienced in it (as well the horrors of living in Stalin's Russia) had left a tragic mark on his face and in his eyes. Which sadly, many perceive as a mean face... But Yuri was a gentle soul.
Watching this gave me hope that other undeciphered texts will one day be ciphered and read and studied like the Olmec and the Harappan texts just to name a few.
You're welcome. If I had the time, I would love to study mayan. Every once in a while, I pull out my book on Maya writing and just read from it just out of sheer wonder and always put it down wishing I could just devote a few months to it. I hope you have the chance to cultivate that passion!
@@AncientAmericas The work produced here for free is a treat.. thank you for your contributions.. you will have to catch on! I think many people are growing tired of the Mayan sensationalism of Ancient Aliens.. some of us just want the down to earth.. and here it is!
I felt like I’ve rewatched “Arrival”. Mind blowing and fascinating story. Also Knorozovs shift in approach reminded me of Alan Turings approach to breaking enigma 👌 I just subscribed to your channel. That’s some top notch content right there.
He was a WWII survivor. I believe the many horrors he had seen and experienced in it (as well the horrors of living in Stalin's Russia) had left a tragic mark on his face and in his eyes. Which sadly, many perceive as a mean face... But Yuri was a gentle soul.
Writing doesn‘t always reflect the sounds of spoken words. This is a secondary step of development a writing systems takes or does not take. In contemporary Chinese script there are hardly any hints to the sounds spoken when you read it out loud. If there are hints they point to a written word that does not contain any hints to it‘s pronunciation. So if you want to decipher a script you have to find out which state of development it is in. Does it denote phonemics or semantics and if either how does it.
I mean, you could say the same about Maya. "Classical Maya" (the writing system) more or less seems to model its phonetics after a specific Mayan language, but the Mayan languages are as diverse as the European Romance languages. Writing in the Maya script was a lot like speaking French while using Latin spelling and grammar in your writing. It's a lot easier with a logosyllabic script due to not needing to match exact phonemes, but still.
Thank you for the video, the Maya language is truly fascinating! One thing tho, Knorozov never stepped a foot in Germany during the war, the scripts were sent to the Soviet Union and he started deciphering them afterwards
Excellent video. Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video. This video is a must see for everyone with an interest in linguistics or Pre-Columbian Central America.
Strictly Speaking, you don’t *need* a Biscript (thought it does make things easier). Ventris etc. deciphered Linear B with just the guess that it was Greek and a lot of hard work
The use of "Lidar" sensor technology, only in the last few years has detected a large number of Maya cities covered over by the jungle, yet to be excavated. Its amazing.
One thing that is consistent is that the biggest obstacles to progress and discovery always come from the established ideology. These renowned professors will fight tooth and nail to retain their status rather than admit they have spent a lifetime teaching things that are wrong.
Lol, reminds me of what an old professor of mine told me: basically, science progresses by old scientists dying. Funny enough, that professor was also a priest.
Here's a question that crossed my mind. The Maya language remains a living language, with the old script mostly deciphered, could the old script be revived for use as the script for today? In many ways, that sound ridiculous, but some have attempt to revive (and Hebrew successfully) revive languages for various peoples. Alphabet scripts works better for modern machines, but languages like Japanese continue to be used. Ridiculous that it may be, I wonder if someone wants to see that.
Actually, many Maya today have learned how to write in their native script. There's a revival that's been going on for a few decades now. If you go on TH-cam and search, you can find videos of Maya teaching and learning how to write it.
The problem is that maya languages are not the same, and not all use the same sounds (consonants, vowels). I thought "since some sounds have multiple glyphs, why not loan some glyphs to sounds without a glyph?", but there are a looot of sounds
In this video of the British Museum we talk about the modern use of the Mayan hieroglyphic writing in modern days. th-cam.com/video/WY6Lu22OR_0/w-d-xo.html
Super interesting choice of example of alphabets, that Russian & German film showing poster! Immediately caught my eye due to the pre-1917 Russian letters and spellings. Had no idea "Saturday" was spelled that way. Then I had a chuckle at the way _even the numbers_ representing the same time of day are different in the two languages. Then I spent fifteen minutes on the dates--I figure it was probably 1897 when those two calendar dates last matched before the Russian Revolution. Stopped myself before investigating the location. What fun nerd sniping.
I noticed that the original name of Palenque is Lakamha. Where did the modern name come from, and why do we not call it by it's original name today? Also where can we see the original names of other Maya cities?
Good question. The name Palenque actually comes from the name of the nearby village of the same name. Many sites get named for the closest settlement or landmark. As for why we don't call it that today, I don't have a good answer. I suspect that the academics are hesitant to break with convention.
Thank you for also including the book and lecture. Awesome video although I kinda wish you talked more about what glyphs were what and how they worked in more detail. But cool stuff nonetheless!
This is an excellent summary of the history of Maya decipherment, especially considering that it is all done in just 22 minutes. One important event that I believe is overlooked here was the corpus created when Alfred Maudslay went into the jungles of Yucatán in the 1880's with large-format, glass plate cameras. This was the first time that anybody had created large scale, detailed images of the heiroglyphs as they had been carved on the monuments.
@@AncientAmericas My pleasure. I have spent a lot of time in Yucatán over the past four decades. It's history is important to me. I am sorry to say that I have never made it to Palenque, though I am familiar with parts of Chiapas as well. The story of the decipherment stirs my emotions. It is such a remarkable story, and the players involved are remarkable people.
Your videos are absolutely wonderful! Its obviously just a matter of time before you get discovered. Have you been promoting yourself on reddit/social media etc?
Thanks! Honestly, I'm a terrible self-marketer and self-promoter and not particularly social media savvy. I wouldn't know where to start. For reference, I've never used Instagram or twitter. But I get plenty of satisfaction making these videos. If they take off someday, excellent, if not, oh well.
@@AncientAmericas I'm not terribly savvy either, but would probably start by posting to a few subreddits, here is a handy list: www.reddit.com/r/history/wiki/subreddits Reddit should work well for now because you don't need an already-established following as with twitter and Instagram. Those platforms are better suited for managing and expanding an already established following. Let me know if you end up doing this for this or your next video so I can go and upvote it :D
Awesome. You are like one of those amazing teachers, if we are lucky to have in our lives: knowledge; excitement; adventure; humbleness ; Fun! In short: improving human civilization. Thanks! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙂
Good video, but it has a couple of mistakes regarding Dr. Knorozov, Knorozov Never been an actual Soviet union soldier, He used to work short period of time as an army telephone operator but that’s all and he has never been in Germany at that time. His interest was engaged by going over a couple of books in University what are been collected from Germany by the army.
5:05 - 5:10. I’m paraphrasing here, but you said that De Landa was learning the Mayan language and that by the time he died, he probably knew more than any other European. Well, De Landa must have been a very poor student because if he was a good pupil, he would have been able to determine that Mayan is not a pure syllabary, and this would not have assigned that moot task to the Mayan scribe. In fact, he probably could have taken on the task himself or even determined that from the get go it would have been a fool’s errand. So, I’m confused by the seeming contradictions in this history.
A very good observation, but remember that De Landa did not have a great gasp of writing systems. I think it's fair to assume that he (like most Europeans) was only familiar with European scripts which are always written with alphabets. A modern ethnographer or epigrapher would pick up on that easily because they've been exposed to other types of scripts. We are fortunate to have much more knowledge at our disposal than De Landa ever did. He was there to convert the Maya first and foremost, not to produce a modern enthographic account.
Also one more thing I should mention. The poor scribe that De Landa coerced into making his "alphabet" was not on board with this and did so reluctantly. We can deduce this because there's actually a part of De Landa's account where he ordered the scribe to write him a random sentence. De Landa couldn't read what the scribe wrote but we can read it today and what he wrote was "I don't want to." With that attitude in mind, I doubt he cared very much if De Landa understood the nuance of Maya writing. He probably just wanted to get out of there fast.
This was an absolutely amazing video! Now knowing how complex the process has been in understanding the Mayan language and writing, my mind is swirling with wonders about their vast, beautiful history! Thank you for all your hard work, as well as all the scholars involved.
@@AncientAmericas My pleasure! I just found your channel recently, and have subscribed. I'm very excited to watch more of your videos and learn new things about topics that have always spoke to me.
It’s uncanny how much Yuri Knorozov and his cat seem to outwardly mirror each other so perfectly, like an identical mind and personality simply manifested in two different species.😂
You don't absolutely need all five of those things. Look at the decipherment of Hittite, for example: nobody knew what the language was till it was translated, and there was no biscript.
True, but consider that hittite is a proto-indo-european language and that cuneiform was already readable so people were able to quickly figure out that they were reading a language with other related languages and that makes it much easier. If hittite was a language isolate, we'd be in trouble unless we found an dictionary and grammar like we have for Sumerian.
A great video and I applaud your effort! The story of the decipherment of Maya hieroglyphs is often overshadowed by that of Egyptian hieroglyphs; though I find the former to be a much more thrilling story.
If I may, I would like to offer a point of elaboration and clarification about the emblem glyphs at 17:19 in your video. You correctly showed that the upper glyph block is the Emblem Glyph of Palenque and the lower one of Copan, however, the names you mentioned - Lakamha and Oxwitik (should be Uxwitik in Classic Maya by the way) - are not translations of the Emblem Glyphs, but toponyms of the cities and their surrounding areas. Emblem Glyphs specifically refer to the ruling polity of a city.
Emblem Glyphs (EG’s) consist of two parts: a basic part and a variable part. Let’s focus on the EG of Palenque. The two elements on the left side of the glyph block - which actually is a single glyph - is the glyph //K’UH//, the general term for “god”, but in EG’s is actually an underspelling of the word //K’UH-lu// for k’uhul, the adjective “god-like, divine, sacred”.
The two circular elements in the upper right section of the glyph block are part of the glyph for //AJAW//, generally meaning “lord, king, noble”. Together these to glyphs form the basic part of k’uhul ajaw, “divine lord”.
The remainder of the glyph block is the variable part. In case of Palenque it consists of a squarish main sign //BAAK// for “bone, captive” and the syllable //la// formed by the upside-down howling faces. Together they spell the word //baakal//. Here the -al suffix functions as a locative suffix with the meaning of “place of …”.
Taken as a whole, the EG of Palenque spells out k’uhul baakal ajaw, or “divine Baakal lord”.
Of course there are some exceptions, such as the emblem glyph of the site of Caracol in Belize, which spells out K’uhul K’antumaak, with k’antumaak a term of as of yet unknown meaning. But in most cases an EG conists of k'uhul [ variable part] ajaw.
Thank you for clarifying that. That makes much more sense and you explained it perfectly!
Well, if you read...all it’s about decoding, discovering , conquering....all names Europeans. It seems scholars have an inferiority complex.
The Mayan people can read Mayan, Aztecs...Chibchas, etc...they still do. Wanna take credit and steal history it’s a joke.
It’s amazing how much linguists have learned in such a short time. And all it took was one very smart kid to figure it out. Thanks for the info.
You Are A Cunning Linguist.
That escalated quickly
Many years later Knorozov was awarded the "Orden del Águila Azteca" by the Mexican government, which is the maximum honor that a foreigner can receive from mexican authorities
He earned it.
The real hero 🙌🏽
Knorozov has been erected a statue in Mérida, Yucatan in 2018. It depicts him and Asya the cat!
About the cat - Knorozov was a big cat lover and always had cats. He would credit his cats in his works and would be gravely upset if editors removed them.
@@TenositSergeichthat's adorable oh my god
Fun fact: in the Philippines, where 300+ years of Spanish rule was delegated to Mexico, we call our Markets, “Palenque/Palenke” instead of Mercado. One of the many Mayan/Aztec words embedded into Philippine modern vocabulary.
Palenque comes from palenc which is a Catalan word, it comes from Spain. The original name of palenque is Otulum
Isn't tiangge originally nahautl? My family uses that as well as palenque often.
@@sebastianmarquez3014 Tianguis is nahuatl
@@Chactemal there a Mayan city called palenque
Thats fascinating. I've always been amazed at seeing Filipino names that would 100% fit living in Latin America.
I think Knorozov is making that face because he’s thinking about Thompson as that photo was being taken.
a statue needs to be made of him - with The Cat, too.
yeah, probably
@@STScott-qo4pw already
ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Yuri_Knorosov_monument_in_Mérida,_Yucatán.jpg
Thanks for your comment. You've made a good point. I went online to download that image of Knorozov. A very Stalinesque smile, I must admit.
@@mrbrightsideisdrunk that's amazing, haha
What I want to know is the face of Thompson when he realized he was the sole reason the studies of the topic he loved were set back for decades.
From what I understand, and I could be wrong, he died just after decipherment was finally achieved.
@@AncientAmericas This is true, he went to the grave still believing his interpretation was correct.
Ego delays scientific progress
@@heyfitzpablum or he went to the grave because he finally realized his interpretation was incorrect.
Science advances, one funeral at a time.
As a Yukatekan myself...thanks for this. Really helped me understand the journey and history of the language of my ancestors
Thank you! I'm glad you found this as enlightening as I did!
Funny to see the portraits of Thompson and Knorosov on one screen. If you didn‘t know the story you would have guessed wrong about who is the villain! Note : Anyone who uses the force of authority instead of scientific argument is toxic and a millstone on your neck.
Anyone who drapes the force of authority in the clothing of "the science" is toxic, and a millstone round humanity's collective neck. There is no one final authority in science other than TRUTH. We who pursue science must always seek always the truth, for nothing else can help explain the world (and how the world really works) to us.
A hypothesis is that Thompson knew, but he didn't want the world to know for many reasons.
like fauci
This is an amazing and inspirational story from an academic standpoint, but it’s completely heartbreaking from a human one. Unlike Ancient Egyptian, the Mayan script (and civilization as a whole) was lost because of a deliberate effort by a single group of people to wipe it out over the course of just a few decades. Even though DeLanda provided the key do deciphering it, he also was one of the men who caused it to be lost.
What kind of monster destroys a cultures books?
Great video, so glad I discovered this channel.
You described it very well. Thank you!
Of all the 'cradles of Civilization', Meso-America is the youngest but in many ways we know more about the ancient Chinese or Egyptians than the Mayans from 700 yrs ago.
@@dutchreagan3676 probably helps that chinese and eqyptian cultures weren't harshly suppressed for centuries.
The books were about summoning demons through blood sacrifice. He saved millions of lives by destroying the evil books.
The same deliberate attempt happened in Egypt. The Romans closed all the "pagan" temples. Christians and muslims chiseled out lots of stone writing and pictures, and tried to wipe out the native ancient Egyptian language. It only survived in Coptic churches, just as Latin is only spoken in Christian churches today. Later on, European visitors burned papyri documents as fuel for fires or wrote over top of them, and the local Arabs used it as toilet paper.
John Eric Sidney Thompson almost single-handedly stagnated and held back research about Mayan civilization until his death in 1975. He based much of his work on Spanish mistranslations.
Thompson argued that the Mayans had a "priest-peasant" class structure, that their writing was purely esoteric with no historical value, that the glyphs had no phonetic component (which was proven false even before he died), that they practiced "slash and burn" agriculture, he dated their Preclassic period too late, he argued that they used sails for water transportation (even though they used canoes), he erroneously conflated many deities as one moon goddess (and Mayan descendents today now believe that the Moon goddess is the wife of the Sun god), and he argued that the Mayans lived in small agricultural communities and left the religious centers uninhabited.
Contemporary research is fighting to correct false claims in conjunction with other disciplines.
Many Mesoamerican experts argue that Thompson's views were a product of his English heritage and socio-political orientation which he later projected on to his research.
later in life he actually realized that he held back all the development of mayan language studies. but ye what a selfish man, and he was knighted ffs
@@sweetbunnybungood thing knighting doesn’t mean anything
Didn't he realize that Europeans lived in Rome, Assisi and Lourdes, and Middle Easterners lived in Bethlehem and Jerusalem?
*“Incidents Of Travel In Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan”* - I love old book titles. They have the most vague, unexciting, and unmemorable sounding names, when so often the content within was some of the most descriptive, exciting, and iconic to this day for it’s groundbreaking material.
It's kinda insane that a lot of our knowledge of this script is only known because of a red army soldiers discoveries in the ruins of Berlin during WW2
Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.
The present is nothing but ripples on a pond caused by the small pebbles of history. Either by chance or by intent, the end result is the same
I really do not understand the comment you made. Seems you might be saying that the Russians overall might be rather dumb or uneducated. The Russian Library is one of the largest and complete in the world. They also are extremely smart overall and have and did have schools of the utmost kind. Perhaps take a peek at their museums. That will perhaps give you a new perspective. Sincerely, Sentebey
@@467-k1m my comment does not say that at all it’s insane that we only know about the language because a guy looted books during one of the last battles of the Second World War has nothing to do with him being Russian.
@@467-k1m He's just commenting on the odd circumstances
@Romulus Numa I like your avatar by the way, keep at it struggler
I still remember in 1980s as a boy reading old books saying that the Mayan cities were only ceremonial centers, without permanent residents. Even more amazing, I found an old school book with an article on Martian canals.
That's wild
Yes! When I was 12 years old I went to Chitzen Itsa. The archaeologists themselves - are the tour guides. My tour group was made to sit on the grass near the cenote. Imagine my shock - instead of deep, cutting-edge research and knowledge - they explained nonsense like: "This is not a city. Nobody lived here. They built monuments for ceremony. Gathered for ceremony. Then left."
I told the archeologist - "look harder. You'll find the residential districts. But you haven't yet - because you haven't looked!"
I smiled, thinking I'd be patted on the head as a bright, young student. Instead there was a vicious frown, and I was scolded like a fool.
I tried saying - there's no possible way that this level of monumental building can be achieved without a city. Thousands of people residing here.
These buildings are the result of not only regular taxation, but spoils of war, and years of prosperity. A highly stratified and organized government. There were institutions teaching engineering, and astronomy. (I pointed at the astronomical observatory building.)
For God's sake they even had giant stadium for soccer matches here - playing Rubber Ball. This city was large! Temples, grand, huge, impressive - are like having a cathedral: like Notre Dame, and huge soccer stadiums for the world cup.
This was not only a city: it was extremely cosmopolitan. I'm sorry; there's just no way in hell that a bunch of people went to the jungle every so often - and stacked up stones with this result. About as dumb as saying Paris was built like that...
When he start arguing (cruelly) back with me, I grew frustrated. I don't know if I said it out loud...how can people so smart - be so stupid?
When they say sites like gobekli tepe were not cities - and hunter-gatherers built it - I just have to laugh.
If you go into archaeology, yet, underestimated the intelligence of ancient people - you shouldn't be in the field.
We mustn't forget; the vast majority of dumb theories about ancient people - originate in prejudice. For some reason it is really damn difficult for old-gen white guys to imagine Native Americans living a very modern lifestyle in cities.
The Mayans did not run around half-naked with painted bodies and feathers in their hair - hunting parrots in the woods. They did not "occasionally come together to form temp cities" they lived in them.
Ironically Mel Gibson's Apocalypto shows their lifestyle more accurately.
An extremely wealthy elite presiding over masses of peasants and slaves. Shopping in the market, and importing exotic, trendy goods from hundreds of miles away. Buying their children the latest talking bird pet craze - they have to be the first on the block to get it.
I asked the question, how can highly educated academics believe nonsense? But I already know the answer. Idealizing the giants in the field - instead of questioning them.
I really hope we can fully crack this script one day. Most Mayan Codices were burned by the Spanish. So this is the best we got to know there history.
As bad as it is, it's much better than the progress we've made on almost all the other mesoamerican scripts. There's still no progress on Zapotec, isthmian, teotihuacan and mixtec writing.
Not by ‚the Spanish‘ but by a fanatic catholic.
@@AncientAmericas Sir, didn't Olmec civilization also have a script?
@@heyfitzpablum Indeed they did. Check out my Olmec episode!
@@HarryGuit whats the difference? All those "colonists" were evil
Knorozov gives us a wonderful demonstration of a Russian smile.
I love his cat!!
@@bonefetcherbrimley7740 same
@@bonefetcherbrimley7740
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Thank you. The Aztec may get the popular press coverage but I'm fascinated by the Maya. One of my favourite times of my life was 3 months backpacking to see the remains of their culture.
That must have been an epic journey. Respect
Nobody cares about the Aztecs. Everyone’s obsessed with Mayans, as they predate the Aztecs and left more of a mark
Brilliant! MANY thanks! Small point: the name of the decipherer of Egyptian is correctly spelled ChAmpollion. Knorozov also worked on the Indus Valley Harappan script and Rapanui Rongorongo. Both still await decipherment.
Thank you! Did not know about Knorosov's other work. I personally don't think those scripts will ever be deciphered without some major additions to the available corpus.
David Stuart is now a professor at UT Austin! His contributions to Maya epigraphy are incredible and yet he's still so humble.
I love catching his lectures online when I can. He's a brilliant guy!
Saw video title, saw channel title, heard the voice isn’t one of those slow drawn out historian voices that puts me to sleep, instantly subscribed! Thanks man love this content
Welcome aboard!
15:48 - oh, what a very scientific approach!
Never underestimate a linguist at knowledge about languages.
They are very good at what they do!
Ok so I just watched the new Black Panther movie, and I was surprised to see they use Maya script on place names and the like. I was like “wait is Maya writing something we know how to recreate accurately?”
Then I got recommended this video and I learned that we actually know more about the writing system of the Maya than I previously assumed!
Thanks for making me learn something new today :)
Anytime!
This is simply one of the most fascinating videos I've ever watched on TH-cam.
Thank you!
A really informative video, thank you. I remember reading back in the early 80s that a few names could be read, but to now know 90% of the script can be deciphered is amazing. It's just sad to think of what was lost - religion has a lot to answer for.
Thank you!
Wen I was a freshman in college in 1986 I was lucky to have Dr. Bill Fash as my archaeology professor. He specialized in the Maya at Copan, and worked with David Stuart. He was in awe of Stuart, who was very young then and was featured in many slides he'd present of his work in Copan. Even then much of the Maya glyphs had been deciphered by Stuart. And I haven't thought about that class (I was a business student who was just interested in archaeology and anthropology) in many years, but the second David Stuart was mentioned in this video a whole bunch of memories came flooding back, funny how that works! Dr. Fash had a replica of an incredibly detailed, incredibly thin, incredibly elaborate ceremonial knife he had found on one of his digs that he would pass around the class... the skill it took to make that without breaking it is unreal.
Videos like this make me feel so insignificant. I love how someone can be so passionate about something to learn all that stuff about anything at all. I can't stay focused long enough to read the directions on how to cook a corndog. Have to open the freezer door at least 3 times. Wait was it 45 seconds or 55? I'm just glad people like you exist. If it was up to people like me we'd never figure out this stuff.
I’m starting from the beginning to listen to all of your thoughtful, educational, wonderful work. I don’t write comments on each one, but I just want you to know how much I appreciate them. Thank you so very much!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you're enjoying them!
"eventually everyone could see the writing on the wall." had to pause the video. chef's kiss
Glad someone appreciates my puns.
Kudos for this work, AND for going having a document with the documentation of the sources.
Thank you!
You do such a high quality job on these videos man. Subbed!
Thank you!
Dude I can't tell you how exciting watching the video was, I am a massive nerd, so hearing about how the language was deciphered bit by bit just made me giddy and excited
To decipher logo syllable glyphs or script to read Maya know how? A long tale, but truly mind blowing! It's good for everybody whenever attempted destruction fails.
Great to have your thorough progression of the deciphering process over the decades and references to other ancient languages. Interesting to see that it took so many non-Mayans to work on the effort and to produce the final success. Thanks for your well-illustrated lecture!
Thank you!
This always broke my heart.
I’m thankful to those scholars who tried to understand and decipher a lost script. I’ve hated Spain and especially the church for the horrors and Holocaust they brought to the Americas for their greed and hypocrisy.
If you hate them just for what you've heard, just imagine how we yucatecos with mayan ancestry feel about that lol
Not just the Spanish, but this is generally true of all the European colonialists.
AMEN! someone other than me is saying it too...
THANK GOD the Spanish conquered the Maya and ended their practice of human sacrifice. The Maya routinely sacrifices hundreds, and on some days, thousands of men, women and children to their gods. They did this by decapitation, but at other times by cutting the victim's heart out while the person was still alive. The removal of an actively beating heart was considered a great offering to their gods. The Spanish converted the Maya to peaceful Catholics, and it was a GREAT thing this happened.
@@ruthc8407 thank god Mexico gained its independence and shoved the greedy racist bastards back to their country and stopped giving them wealth that they squandered.
And Not like burning innocent people as witches isn’t fun and full of meaning in ye olde country, right?
Or inbreeding. That’s a cool Spanish thing to do too!
Ooh! And hypocrisy like in this instance! 😬
"The writing was on the wall."
CUTE!
13:18 - Jesus, what a photo. Quit being so cheerful, Knorozov!
I wished there was an adjacent contemporaneous development of a simplified Mayan script, like you would find in Egyptian hieratic/demotic and Chinese clerky script. You would still have the prestige Artistic script used in calligraphy art and everyday simplified script.
You're not alone.
@@AncientAmericas god just imagine what would have looked like.
@@AncientAmericas as far i can tell is there was no sociopolitical reason for a simplified script to be developed during thr pre colonial era. The Mayan hieroglyphics script was used to communicate from one Nobility to another, to flex their political influence and such.
I bet in those times writing was an exclusive thing that very few knew and the everyday person didn't need anyway.
It's like talking today about differential equations: well few people know how to read them, manage them and actually have the need to do so , you need a few years of training to get to do that, and the everyday person actually doesn't have a use for it. So there's no need to develop an everyday simplified notation for differential equations apart from what there is in place.
@@magtovi it's not that simple as some nebulous "need" and it's wrong to think people from deep antiquity were widely illiterate. Just consider the middle and early late bronze age civilisations of the eastern Mediterranean, literacy was actually quite high. So something else must be in play we are not sure what exactly is at play , well maybe not we there's probably some experts that know why.
I never understood how Spain could be so advanced and so primitive at the same time.
I wish I had a better answer to explain such a tragedy but it's worth pointing out that that was a very different time. People didn't discern between the spiritual and secular like we do today. Back then, those were the same thing and spiritual concerns informed action for better or worse. De Landa probably thought he was doing the best thing possible for the Maya and their welfare, even if we find it completely abhorrent and tragic today. Our values and morals have been enormously influenced by the enlightenment which allows a division between spiritual and secular matters. The Spanish had no such benefit.
@@AncientAmericas yea but at no point while burning children at the steak and seeing the mass r*pe if women none of them thought... aye we kinda mean
It could be argued that well-meaning missionaries seeking to "educate" indigenous folk thought they were doing "God's will" by destroying knowledge of their ancient ways, and that the Church is more at fault than Spain was. We know, however, that one hand washed the other in this - the Church and the State both sought advantage in the New World, each for their own reasons, and used each other to accomplish mutually sought outcomes. This relationship existed in almost all Old World cultures which colonized the New World. That's the 30,000 ft. overview, anyway.
braindead religion caused this... they were so narrowminded that what they did had to be the only way to do things... instead of learning and admiring that things can be done in more than one way...
Religion, religion, religion.
This is excellent content, please keep doing these videos, thank you from Perú.
Thank you! More content is coming! You're welcome from Indiana!
I am truly grateful for your work. You have made the complex very clear for me. I have always been interested in ancient America's. Thank you.
Thank you!
What's cool is that a monument dedicated to Knorozov was erected in Yucatan depicting him and his cat just like in the photograph that we saw in the video. I suppose it's his favorite photo of himself lol.
For real? That's amazing!
Now I'm thinking Knorozov just had a sense of humor.
Very, very well done and seriously informative - thank you!
You're welcome!
Good stuff.straight forward ..no crazy theories.
Thank you!
Before you even said it I was typing "Knorozov looking like a true bond villian" lol. What a bad ass picture!
Yuri was a WWII survivor. I believe the many horrors he had seen and experienced in it (as well the horrors of living in Stalin's Russia) had left a tragic mark on his face and in his eyes. Which sadly, many perceive as a mean face... But Yuri was a gentle soul.
You have got yourself a new subscriber !
Fantastic video on the history of the decipherment of Mayan 🙂
Thank you!
"Aspiring Bond villain"
Got it in one. 🤣
Number One...
Wow. You just came up on my feed!! I really liked your video!!! One of the best history pieces I’ve heard!! You’ve won a new subscriber! 😁
Thank you!
According to the wiki, Thompson lived long enough to witness his hamfisted grip on Maya decipherment being shattered.
Long enough to taste comeuppance.
Loving your whole catalog years after TH-cam hid your feed from me. Excellent job. Thank you so much!
Thank you!
💚👍
I’m 5 min in Im already learning a lot of information I didn’t know great video so far
Thank you!
I can watch these videos over and over. Such incredible knowledge!
Thank you!
Now, if we could have a video on the ongoing attempts to decipher the Peruvian _khipu_ system...
I have that on the topic list and I've actually been keeping a close eye on the recent work. It's very exciting!
Thank you for the link to prof Coe's presentation. It was very interesting.
You're welcome! It's a very good lecture.
Watching this gave me hope that other undeciphered texts will one day be ciphered and read and studied like the Olmec and the Harappan texts just to name a few.
This is a WONDERFUL video! Thank you so very much for making it. It made me wonder if I should start studying Mayan! 🎼👍🌺🌴🎶
You're welcome. If I had the time, I would love to study mayan. Every once in a while, I pull out my book on Maya writing and just read from it just out of sheer wonder and always put it down wishing I could just devote a few months to it. I hope you have the chance to cultivate that passion!
@@AncientAmericas What about all the statues of the ( Hamites) who built the pyramids long before the Mayan Indians were around
Amazing.. you deserve more views!
Thanks! Ancient American history is not the most popular history out there but I'm confident the views will come in time.
@@AncientAmericas The work produced here for free is a treat.. thank you for your contributions.. you will have to catch on! I think many people are growing tired of the Mayan sensationalism of Ancient Aliens.. some of us just want the down to earth.. and here it is!
I felt like I’ve rewatched “Arrival”. Mind blowing and fascinating story.
Also Knorozovs shift in approach reminded me of Alan Turings approach to breaking enigma 👌
I just subscribed to your channel. That’s some top notch content right there.
Thank you!
That was a very engaging and well-made video!
Thank you!
Thank you for these videos, they are fascinating and super well done. You rock!
Thank you! I'm glad that you enjoy them.
Yuri Knorozov missed his calling as the evil villain in every movie.
He was a WWII survivor. I believe the many horrors he had seen and experienced in it (as well the horrors of living in Stalin's Russia) had left a tragic mark on his face and in his eyes. Which sadly, many perceive as a mean face... But Yuri was a gentle soul.
Highly informative.
This will definitely go in to my all time rewatch list.
Thank you!
Writing doesn‘t always reflect the sounds of spoken words. This is a secondary step of development a writing systems takes or does not take. In contemporary Chinese script there are hardly any hints to the sounds spoken when you read it out loud. If there are hints they point to a written word that does not contain any hints to it‘s pronunciation. So if you want to decipher a script you have to find out which state of development it is in. Does it denote phonemics or semantics and if either how does it.
I mean, you could say the same about Maya. "Classical Maya" (the writing system) more or less seems to model its phonetics after a specific Mayan language, but the Mayan languages are as diverse as the European Romance languages. Writing in the Maya script was a lot like speaking French while using Latin spelling and grammar in your writing. It's a lot easier with a logosyllabic script due to not needing to match exact phonemes, but still.
That was great! Thoroughly enjoyed it. Swiftly informative. Thank you.
Thank you!
Great video, but you left me hanging! What happened to Thompson on the Schele translation? Did he change his mind?
He actually passed away just after that. I'm not sure if he ever changed his mind but by then he was very old and ill.
Thank you for the video, the Maya language is truly fascinating!
One thing tho, Knorozov never stepped a foot in Germany during the war, the scripts were sent to the Soviet Union and he started deciphering them afterwards
Thank you. Yes, people have since pointed that out in the comments and I stand corrected!
Excellent video. Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video. This video is a must see for everyone with an interest in linguistics or Pre-Columbian Central America.
Thank you!
@@AncientAmericas THANK YOU! A TRULY GREAT VIDEO.
Bro, your channel is great.
Thank you!
Strictly Speaking, you don’t *need* a Biscript (thought it does make things easier). Ventris etc. deciphered Linear B with just the guess that it was Greek and a lot of hard work
Yes, that is a great observation. A biscript is not strictly necessary but it can make or break decipherment.
The use of "Lidar" sensor technology, only in the last few years has detected a large number of Maya cities covered over by the jungle, yet to be excavated. Its amazing.
LIDAR has revolutionized Maya studies. It's incredible technology!
Yup Thompson was right… it was impossible for him to decipher Mayan glyphs…
A very good way to put it.
7:37 -- John Lloyd Stephens (1805 - 1852) was an American lawyer and explorer. Frederick Catherwood (1799 - 1854) was an English architect and artist.
Why did they die so young?
@@chrissibersky4617 -- Stephens died of malaria. Catherwood died when the ship of which he was a passenger collided with another ship at sea and sank.
@@kevinbyrne4538
Oh my Lord!
Thanks. 👍
Amazing book about their adventures - Jungle of Stone
One thing that is consistent is that the biggest obstacles to progress and discovery always come from the established ideology. These renowned professors will fight tooth and nail to retain their status rather than admit they have spent a lifetime teaching things that are wrong.
Very similar ro Evans' attitude regarding the Linear scripts.
Lol, reminds me of what an old professor of mine told me: basically, science progresses by old scientists dying. Funny enough, that professor was also a priest.
@@danadnauseam Right.Evans hoarded the scripts. The decipherent of Linear B was only made when more tablets were found at Pylos and published.
I took a couple courses on the Maya in the late 80's and early 90's but never realized that the script was just recently deciphered.
Here's a question that crossed my mind. The Maya language remains a living language, with the old script mostly deciphered, could the old script be revived for use as the script for today?
In many ways, that sound ridiculous, but some have attempt to revive (and Hebrew successfully) revive languages for various peoples. Alphabet scripts works better for modern machines, but languages like Japanese continue to be used. Ridiculous that it may be, I wonder if someone wants to see that.
Actually, many Maya today have learned how to write in their native script. There's a revival that's been going on for a few decades now. If you go on TH-cam and search, you can find videos of Maya teaching and learning how to write it.
Hebrew was "revived" as a day-to-day language from its continual liturgical and Scholastic use (not to mention Yiddish). Much easier case, surely.
@@AncientAmericas Nativism at its best
The problem is that maya languages are not the same, and not all use the same sounds (consonants, vowels). I thought "since some sounds have multiple glyphs, why not loan some glyphs to sounds without a glyph?", but there are a looot of sounds
In this video of the British Museum we talk about the modern use of the Mayan hieroglyphic writing in modern days. th-cam.com/video/WY6Lu22OR_0/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for your scholarship and love of the Mayas, fr. de Landa.
I've always thought maya script fits together kind of like the Hangul alphabet, and then still uses ideograms
Super interesting choice of example of alphabets, that Russian & German film showing poster! Immediately caught my eye due to the pre-1917 Russian letters and spellings. Had no idea "Saturday" was spelled that way. Then I had a chuckle at the way _even the numbers_ representing the same time of day are different in the two languages. Then I spent fifteen minutes on the dates--I figure it was probably 1897 when those two calendar dates last matched before the Russian Revolution. Stopped myself before investigating the location.
What fun nerd sniping.
I noticed that the original name of Palenque is Lakamha. Where did the modern name come from, and why do we not call it by it's original name today? Also where can we see the original names of other Maya cities?
Good question. The name Palenque actually comes from the name of the nearby village of the same name. Many sites get named for the closest settlement or landmark. As for why we don't call it that today, I don't have a good answer. I suspect that the academics are hesitant to break with convention.
A big thank you for all the effort you put into your videos! I've learned so much from your channel :)
You're very welcome!
Thank you for also including the book and lecture. Awesome video although I kinda wish you talked more about what glyphs were what and how they worked in more detail. But cool stuff nonetheless!
Don't worry. I do want to devote a lecture to how Maya glyphs work in the future.
@@AncientAmericas Cool!
This is an excellent summary of the history of Maya decipherment, especially considering that it is all done in just 22 minutes. One important event that I believe is overlooked here was the corpus created when Alfred Maudslay went into the jungles of Yucatán in the 1880's with large-format, glass plate cameras. This was the first time that anybody had created large scale, detailed images of the heiroglyphs as they had been carved on the monuments.
Thank you!
@@AncientAmericas My pleasure. I have spent a lot of time in Yucatán over the past four decades. It's history is important to me. I am sorry to say that I have never made it to Palenque, though I am familiar with parts of Chiapas as well. The story of the decipherment stirs my emotions. It is such a remarkable story, and the players involved are remarkable people.
Absolutely incredible!
Thank you!
There’s a good Nova documentary as well named after that book Breaking the Mayan Code. Nice work! Thank you!
Oh yeah! That documentary is awesome!
@ I find it occasionally and watch it again. By the way, nice channel! I enjoy it!
Your videos are absolutely wonderful! Its obviously just a matter of time before you get discovered. Have you been promoting yourself on reddit/social media etc?
Thanks! Honestly, I'm a terrible self-marketer and self-promoter and not particularly social media savvy. I wouldn't know where to start. For reference, I've never used Instagram or twitter. But I get plenty of satisfaction making these videos. If they take off someday, excellent, if not, oh well.
@@AncientAmericas I'm not terribly savvy either, but would probably start by posting to a few subreddits, here is a handy list: www.reddit.com/r/history/wiki/subreddits
Reddit should work well for now because you don't need an already-established following as with twitter and Instagram. Those platforms are better suited for managing and expanding an already established following.
Let me know if you end up doing this for this or your next video so I can go and upvote it :D
@@world_moloch just need to get myself a reddit account first...
but seriously, thanks for the suggestion!
This is the channel i needed, gracias🧛🏻♀️
You're welcome!
Awesome. You are like one of those amazing teachers, if we are lucky to have in our lives: knowledge; excitement; adventure; humbleness ; Fun! In short: improving human civilization. Thanks! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙂
Thank you!
IIRC Knorozov always credited his cat as a co-author on his papers
Yes! I once read that when publishers cropped out his cat from his official pictures, he would be furious.
I love that photo of Yuri Knorozov.
It's pretty amazing.
This was in no way a waste of maya time! Great video. Thanks.
I see what ya did there. Thank you!
Good video, but it has a couple of mistakes regarding Dr. Knorozov, Knorozov Never been an actual Soviet union soldier, He used to work short period of time as an army telephone operator but that’s all and he has never been in Germany at that time. His interest was engaged by going over a couple of books in University what are been collected from Germany by the army.
Thank you! There's a lot of lore around knorosov and it looks like I missed some of the details. I appreciate you calling it out.
beatiful video bro... thank you for taking the time to make a video of my culture
Thank you! I've got other Maya videos as well. Be sure to check those out.
5:05 - 5:10. I’m paraphrasing here, but you said that De Landa was learning the Mayan language and that by the time he died, he probably knew more than any other European.
Well, De Landa must have been a very poor student because if he was a good pupil, he would have been able to determine that Mayan is not a pure syllabary, and this would not have assigned that moot task to the Mayan scribe. In fact, he probably could have taken on the task himself or even determined that from the get go it would have been a fool’s errand.
So, I’m confused by the seeming contradictions in this history.
A very good observation, but remember that De Landa did not have a great gasp of writing systems. I think it's fair to assume that he (like most Europeans) was only familiar with European scripts which are always written with alphabets. A modern ethnographer or epigrapher would pick up on that easily because they've been exposed to other types of scripts. We are fortunate to have much more knowledge at our disposal than De Landa ever did. He was there to convert the Maya first and foremost, not to produce a modern enthographic account.
Also one more thing I should mention. The poor scribe that De Landa coerced into making his "alphabet" was not on board with this and did so reluctantly. We can deduce this because there's actually a part of De Landa's account where he ordered the scribe to write him a random sentence. De Landa couldn't read what the scribe wrote but we can read it today and what he wrote was "I don't want to." With that attitude in mind, I doubt he cared very much if De Landa understood the nuance of Maya writing. He probably just wanted to get out of there fast.
19:45 sigh....writing on the wall, huh? really? and that's just the most egregious pun....
Love It!
Who doesn't love a good pun?
I even like bad puns@@AncientAmericas
This is excellent. I always wonder about the mentality of the few individuals who vote down excellent videos like this.
Thank you!!
yeah. exactly what is there about this video to object? weird weird weird people.
edit: this was ANOTHER fascinating video. now i understand a little more about writing, in particular "logo-syllabaries"
@@STScott-qo4pw thank you!
an amazing video. Knorozov was a very based man
Thank you!
Beautiful, thank you for summarizing everything into this video
If somebody in Hollywood doesn’t make a movie out of this story they’re missing the boat.
In due time
Giving the track record of Hollywood movies about real history, I'd rather prefer a "boring" documentary.
This was an absolutely amazing video! Now knowing how complex the process has been in understanding the Mayan language and writing, my mind is swirling with wonders about their vast, beautiful history! Thank you for all your hard work, as well as all the scholars involved.
Thank you!
@@AncientAmericas My pleasure! I just found your channel recently, and have subscribed. I'm very excited to watch more of your videos and learn new things about topics that have always spoke to me.
It’s uncanny how much Yuri Knorozov and his cat seem to outwardly mirror each other so perfectly, like an identical mind and personality simply manifested in two different species.😂
Hey! That was good!
Thank you!
I like how you gave your sources!
Thank you! Give Coe's book a read. It's real good!
You don't absolutely need all five of those things. Look at the decipherment of Hittite, for example: nobody knew what the language was till it was translated, and there was no biscript.
True, but consider that hittite is a proto-indo-european language and that cuneiform was already readable so people were able to quickly figure out that they were reading a language with other related languages and that makes it much easier. If hittite was a language isolate, we'd be in trouble unless we found an dictionary and grammar like we have for Sumerian.