I love this system so far! Let me know your experience below. Signature Solar ($50 off $500 or more discount Code "EVERYDAYDAVE"): signaturesolar.com/shop-all/solar-panels/?ref=SALE EG4 12KPV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-12kpv-hybrid-inverter-48v-12000w-input-8000w-output-120-240v-split-phase-rsd-all-in-one-hybrid-solar-inverter/?ref=SALE EG4 18KPV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/?ref=SALE EG4 Wall Mount Battery: signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-48v-280ah-14-3kwh-indoor-heated-ul1973-ul9540a-10-year-warranty-pre-order/?ref=SALE
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
great to see you are using EG4 equipment. we are off-grid with the 18kpv, 15 kilowatts of bi-facial, 60 kilowatts of lifepo4 batteries and a diesel generator using filtered waste veggie-oil. EG4 is the best.
I use the smaller 6000xp but I have a small off grid house, it powers my water pump really easily which is my largest load. I'm also very impressed with Signature Solar.
Always makes me smile when I hear: I was able to speak to a “live person”. As opposed to what? I use the same saying too but it still makes me smile. Thank you for the update. It is helpful as we are looking to expand too.
Love your videos Dave. I’ve got 2 x 6000XP’s that are running flawlessly. I also used the Ready Rack from APA Solar, based on your first video. Love it!!
Thanks Dave, I am planning on purchasing an EG4 unit. I find the whole "use lead acid battery" approach very disturbing, given the problems I have had with other MPPT units. Please manufacturers: Let me set the battery type to LiPO4, PERIOD!! Then provide the necessary software inputs to balance the system. OR Use some intelligent algorithms in you software to bring everything up to speed. Confidence goes WAY low when the manufacturer requires us to be as well-versed as Everyday Dave is. Not all of us will be exposed to his excellent tutorial.
Knowledgeable, relevant, personable, great communicator.... your subscriber base will grow. I know it ticked up by one right now. And as a former Alaskan, where did you get that great hat??
I always enjoy you videos sir. Just wanted to give folks a heads up about saving a few hundred bucks on a soft start. EG4 says (and has a video on their channel) the 12k can start a 5ton ac unit while already running a few thousand watts worth of load. So maybe people can buy both and hold off on installing it to see if it's necessary. Thankya sir!
@@ProjectsWithDave there is also a refresh button on the app when connected through the internet. Takes about 5-10 seconds to update but you get near instant data. I’ve successfully used this with my 6kXP.
I have the 6000XP. There is no separate mounting bracket so you have to hold the 50 pound unit up againat the wall while you insert the mounting bolts. Requires two strong people.
Hay Dave, does this system provide inputs for wind turbines with all the data, just as with solar? My plan is to have 4-6 wind turbines with a solar array. I am looking at going for both for my small 320-acre ranch here in Arizona. I also would like to ask if this system is scalable? I plan on starting out with 10KW and building up to a 60KW System all grid-tied with the added income of excess power being sold to my local power company which does allow net metering and will buy or credit back to my account the unused power I generate. Thanks for the amazing video.
Great overview and testing! I would only "need" 8kW for an inverter (ac coupled) to operate as backup but one spec not mentioned here - the 12kPV has an 80A max passthrough current. 18kPV has 200A, so I could do full house connection to the main panel. If I do go this route, I will probably also install a transfer switch to bypass the EG inverter, in case something fails and I want grid only power. $9K for the setup + some odds and ends, doing it myself call it $9500. Alternatively I could get a professional install and possibly a Tesla Powerwall + gateway for like $5K more. It's a tough decision because I'm sure if I sold the house it would be much better having that Powerwall...
@ProjectsWithDave Oh, to specify my needs, I already have 2 solar arrays. The backup I install would be ac coupled unless I put it in my detached garage to replace the 5.1k SMA Inverter. I'm in Michigan though and that would be quite the temp swing. Also, for backup, the Inverter needs to be in my basement or use a gateway (like Powerwall) near the meter instead. Complex situation I guess. I'm about 2 years out on pulling the trigger, I still have met metering for 4 more years. I don't mean I would move soon but who knows, so I may want something that holds more value. I would hate paying to undo an install.
If you have 4 more years before you need the battery, I would wait. The technology is constantly changing you will probably be able to get more for your money in 4 years.
@mikeyazel8725 yeah but you would rely on the 18K not failing to make sure you have power. I don't know if I want to wire my house like that. Either way, I'll wait a couple more years on this.
Just to see if it works correctly. This seems like the inverter to get and not have to go through the grid tie permitting process as long as it works. Thanks for the detailed review!
I am in a zero export situation and am also curious about the bulletproofness of their mechanism. Are there codes that govern/approve/disapprove of these devices?
I think that's a valid concern. Victron has a very long track record, giving one complete confidence. I'm running both, we'll see which one lasts longer. : )
For one person lift thinking of a rental engine lift they can lift up to 7 to 8 feet and you have tires on the lift to move it about. Just don’t go beyond the wheels 🛞 for tipping over.
Can you do a video on what you would recommend for a system today? I would like to install a battery backup, ~9KWatt system with an EV charger from the panel as well. Wouldn't mind if you could share possibly using an EV as a "battery backup" in case of emergency. Thanks!!
Thanks Dave. Way deeper in the weeds than I'm capable of but love the challenge of following along! Wrt lithium batteries (LiFePO4) and how to use them: my system, an Enphase with 2 5P batteries, do you think it's better to discharge them each night (barring any forecasted storminess where you'd want a full charge all the time), or keep them fully charged and maybe exercise them once a month by draining them? My system was configured by the installer as "self consumption" and I have no reason to doubt them (and it is what the Enphase software recommends), but I'm concerned about constantly cycling the batteries, and on the rare occasion we lose power, it's not necessarily due to a storm, which the Enphase software monitors the NWS for).
Lithium batteries like to be at about 50% state of charge. They don't like the extremes, fully charged or fully discharged. If you aren't getting a cost advantage from the discharge cycle, I would limit the discharge end of the cycle to 20%, that is the standard max discharge. If you have a grid tie agreement that allows you to sell back to the grid and you are not saving money by discharging the batteries than I would limit it to around 50%. Here is a typical chart for LiFePO4 batteries showing the expected life based on the depth of discharge: drive.google.com/file/d/1bQaRcWfQPhj2UwZLtLzEcAMjO_jci83d/view?usp=sharing Lithium batteries are stored around at 50% to 60% SOC (State Of Charge) because that is where they are electrically balanced limiting dendrite growth. However, you do need to bring them to 100% periodically so the cells can be balanced.
Great video! I have the Sol-Ark 14K and I swear the chassis, internals and various buttons look the same! Oh, I have the outdoor EG4 wall mount 14K battery and it works like a champ!! Question, have you ever looked at Solar-Assistant? I think it is the coolest thing ever. Best part is you get all the stats in real-time, as everything is local. Worth looking at!
Do I need to install it near my breaker? My panels are on the other side of the house. There's a 20A 240V line going to that side of the house. Can I just connect that to the 12K and run? Can I limit the system to
What would happen if it was night, you have all of your loads running, lets 12-14k. I believe the 12kv model has 80 amp pass through so you’d be at 8000 from the battery and 4-6k from the grid. I’m assuming it would trip and reset. I only need the capacity of the 6000xp but reading online it looks like it doesn’t have the grid assist feature, only in the sense that if load exceeds the inventor, it swaps everything over to grid vs just what it needs to make up the difference.
I haven't looked at the 6000XP in detail. I know my Victron inverter has grid assist. It's designed specifically to supply more power than a generator or weak shore power can provide by supplementing with the battery.
You should book up your older inverter that is just grid tied and still running and connect it to your gen input then it'll work all the time even if the grid goes down.
Thanks for the video. This is the exact system I want to install If I have the grid backup, do I need to worry about starting the table saw and other tools?
If the grid is connected, you shouldn't have an issues with anything as long as you don't exceed the max passthrough current. However, I was able to run everything I own even with the 12K off grid. You should be ok as long as you have a soft start for your AC or heat pump.
Hi Dave, is Victron still the primary system? Curious to know how it stacks up against the other systems you’re testing since Victron is considered the gold standard of solar off grid power
I have a 40x40 3 sided pole barn that I would like to have some solar power in to run some lights minimally(to see when parking one of the vehicles in at dark), maybe have a trickle charger set up to keep tractor and rv batteries topped off. What would you recommend? I don't want to spend a fortune and there wouldn't be any power tools or anything to run.
If you are running LED lights it would not take very much. If you have no split phase loads you could do a simple setup with a single phase inverter and one or two server rack batteries. You could do a setup like the one in this video: th-cam.com/video/BzMAW8kW0CU/w-d-xo.html But instead of using the Victron charge controller, use the EG4 3k inverter in this kit: signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-740-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/?ref=SALE That kit has more capacity than you need, so you could scale back the batteries and solar panels to match your loads. If that's too complex, you could also get away with using an all in one system, you can get an idea of the performance and options from these videos: Bluetti: th-cam.com/video/_QMe8DWlr30/w-d-xo.html Anker: th-cam.com/video/5H-w63thZiE/w-d-xo.html Pecron: th-cam.com/video/ZlIbkhPPfGI/w-d-xo.html Ecoflow: th-cam.com/video/NTpSEfAxWnw/w-d-xo.html
The Victron setup has more options, but the EG4 should meet most peoples needs. The settings are not as intuitive as I would like, but once you figure them out its fine.
I would like to see you hook up that SolarEdge inverter to the 12kpv to see the process involved in that. As I only have a non hybrid SolarEdge inverter currently I don’t have batteries, can’t expand panels and if the grid goes down? I go down without power.
You need a permit from the building inspector for the electrical install and a net metering agreement with your utility company to sell back to the grid. Otherwise you would just supply loads in a home backup configuration. You can see the permit process in this video: th-cam.com/video/imiEYDHLG4A/w-d-xo.html You can see hooking up to the grid for back feeding in this video: th-cam.com/video/VkqUvd4c1-U/w-d-xo.html And this video: th-cam.com/video/_xA6qOwnYbM/w-d-xo.html
Off grid operation is 33.3A at 240V or 8,000W constant operation. For short periods it can supply much more. It is rated for 10kW for up to 1min. Grid Passthrough current is 80A or 19,200W.
thanks for the video !!.....i do like the EG4, could you show us how to incorporate a gas generator (little 5K portable) to charge the batteries safely? i havent figured that out on this system....maybe you can? also i didnt see a video about the sungold inverter....i did like the toroidal type transformer type inverters at first, and was always interested in them, as they are a much lower price than a victron !
I want to setup up the 12KPV so that it does not sell power to the grid. Can the 12KPV supply power to the main panel connected to the grid and feed circuits on that panel with the sell back feature disabled?
In your situation, I would put the whole load center on the load side of the inverter and feed power into the input side. You might need the 18KPV to achieve the typical day time use of the whole home. This is the 18KPV, it has more passthrough capacity: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/?ref=SALE
Yes and no. I have tried it with my system. If they are both LiFePO4 and the capacities are similar you can do it with some success. You will find that the SOC for each pack drifts apart over time. If you charge the system to 100% SOC every 3 to 5 days to re synchronize the packs it works ok.
Great video. I've had the 18Kpv since Feb and my only question on your settings is the PV Charge Priority. I have mine set to Disable so that PV will supply loads first then charge batteries (also I'm grid tied). The pop-up explanation next to the setting states that it "Routes the majority of PV productin to charge the batteries" Can you clarify why you chose to charge batteries before supplying loads?
Thanks, I figured it was a more common setting for those who have variable electricity rates, it make sure the battery is fully charged for consumption at peak pricing.
Love this! In your opinion, at what point (price & functionality) would you consider this system over a dual Ecoflow or dual Anker 3800 system like what you have reviewed in the past?
I would only go with an all-in-one system like Ecoflow or Anker if you don't have the capability to install a modular system. With a modular system, you can make upgrades more easily and you have more control over each part of the system.
@@ProjectsWithDave Understood! I appreciate the feedback. We may do an all-in-one for this house and most likely a modular for the home we plan to build next year.
Do you use your SE inverter at the same time with the EG4 inverter to send power to the grid? If so, when the grid goes down, will the SE inverter know to shut down (or will it sense the waveform from the EG4 and try to keep running)? I assume that you only feed the grid from one at a time??
When the grid goes down the EG4 will also stop exporting, it will not create it's own waveform on the grid side. If you want the SE inverter to keep running it has to be connected to the Generator input on the EG4 and configured for AC coupling.
I am in a unique situation because my panels (16) are all Enphase IQ7+ (5.6Kwh) to a single combiner box with the PV disconnect in the main 200 A panel. All videos have panel strings directly connected to the Inverter but mine are connected to the panel. If the Inverter is AC coupled to the panel can it “see” the PV or can I only monitor the PV through the Enphase app? Additionally, I was looking at a Sungold 10K Hybrid ($2100) which is considerably cheaper than the EG4 but who wants problems, still $1500 might be worth a bit of risk. Finally, My house has all natural gas appliances. The only 240v item is a small 3000w AC unit. My utility load is only 15 KW per day so I am confident the 12K + indoor wall mount will work. My bill is currently negative but I can manage things better and avoid the odd outage.
I suggest you get an electrician to look at your actual situation. I'm not an electrician and would not want to have a miscommunication that could lead to a dangerous situation. If I understand the situation correctly, these are my thoughts for reference: If you want to operate the micro inverter system through the 12K, you would connect the Enphase output to the Generator input on the 12K. Then the Line side connection on the 12K would go to the PV disconnect. All the loads you want to run when the power is out would be on the 12K output side.
Dave, i'm looking at getting a Ford Lightning and want to know if we can connect the Pro power to this inverter and make see as battery or generator? let me know if what i'm asking make sense or not.
@@ProjectsWithDave sorry Dave I just don't know too much about this subject. I'm on Time of Use so i want to know if there a way so i can use this 100kw truck as Tesla power wall.
Given how rare power outages are, I'd let the battery drain all the way to 0% during one if needed. Going to 0% a few times over 10 years is not a big deal, especially since it'll charge again as soon as the sun is up.
Just curious,I installed an 18k with Ethos batteries last summer and the only glitch was I can’t start a hair dryer on low as it resets the inverter,if I start on high and turn it down no problem. Are you seeing this on yours?
That is strange. I can't imagine why you would have that issue. Maybe it is detecting an arc fault somehow. If it is repeatable, I would report it to the manufacture.
@ I did and they asked me to totally separate the panel and inverter grounds by actually adding a separate ground rod. My electrician did this after I was gone for the winter but we’ll see in the spring.
I've got a idea bouncing around my head I'd like some constructive criticism on it's a outside the box idea so please give the hole concept some thought. What got me thinking about this is LED light bulb's around the house all waisting energy converting AC to DC and configured in 🤯way's to run low V LED's on 110-240AC. Solar panels are DC and when you start looking around your home it's surprising how many things are actually running on DC under 24v eg TV PC Router USB chargers the heat given off by power supply's and inverters is all wasted energy so dose it not make sense to have a solar powered DC supply around the house
CURIOUS: my EG4-LL ( series 2 ) 48-volt Rack-Mount batteries do have FIRE SUPPRESSION ... has EG4 eliminated fire suppression in the EG4-LL - S ??? COOP ...
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
Dave, just want to point out, your string of 11 panels is likely to exceed 600 VOC, when you factor in your VOC temperature adjustment factor. Not sure where you are in Ohio, but using the generic VOC temperature calculation in the national electric code, if it gets below 4F in the winter, you would exceed 600 volts. Take a look at NEC 690.7 for the table
HOWdy P-w-E-D-D, ... Thanks - observation - Every-DaY Dave = is verging on " bourgeois " DAVE with ALL these high-end TOYS 🙂 COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...
Good point. Hopefully, videos like this will help you understand the equipment capability and limits so you can make an informed choice. The equipment is very heavy so shipping back and forth with all the handling is very expensive.
Not sure why anyone would order this type of equipment and then want to return them, shipping cost for heavy items are excessive. This is not like ordering items from Amazon.
@@Rock_Nemo I ordered the EG4 3000w had it for 2 weeks and wanted to trade it in for the 6000 XP pay the difference but they also wanted me to pay a restocking fee. I just wish they would mention that when you're buying an item from them!
Easy install my a$$, can’t get battery to sync with 18k. EG4 hasn’t returned my request for help in 24 hrs. This is ridiculous!! I’ve watched dozens of videos seeking help, even Will Prowse had this trouble but he has an inside cell number to tech support. 👎
I called the standard tech support line 4 times and had someone answer within 5min. Is it an EG4 battery? I did not have any communication issues. Are you getting an error?
Wall mount battery costs $3300 you might.find cheaper buy 2 I think it comes with cables which saves money, 2 batteries would be about 28 kw which would run most homes
I love this system so far! Let me know your experience below.
Signature Solar ($50 off $500 or more discount Code "EVERYDAYDAVE"): signaturesolar.com/shop-all/solar-panels/?ref=SALE
EG4 12KPV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-12kpv-hybrid-inverter-48v-12000w-input-8000w-output-120-240v-split-phase-rsd-all-in-one-hybrid-solar-inverter/?ref=SALE
EG4 18KPV: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/?ref=SALE
EG4 Wall Mount Battery: signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-48v-280ah-14-3kwh-indoor-heated-ul1973-ul9540a-10-year-warranty-pre-order/?ref=SALE
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
Can you Please see if they will (EG4) will let you get the 21K system they are about to bring out. I want to grab that or the 18K
great to see you are using EG4 equipment. we are off-grid with the 18kpv, 15 kilowatts of bi-facial, 60 kilowatts of lifepo4 batteries and a diesel generator using filtered waste veggie-oil. EG4 is the best.
Thanks for the info. How long have you been running it?
Going to be adding almost the exact same setup as yours except using 370 watt mono panels . What state are you in?
i ordered and assembled it in November 2023
Michigan
@@stevenfrazier8939nice. What type of generator did you end up going with... and would you get the same one?
I use the smaller 6000xp but I have a small off grid house, it powers my water pump really easily which is my largest load. I'm also very impressed with Signature Solar.
Always makes me smile when I hear: I was able to speak to a “live person”. As opposed to what? I use the same saying too but it still makes me smile.
Thank you for the update. It is helpful as we are looking to expand too.
Yes, the language we use has to adapt to the times. "Live person" would seem like a silly statement 20 years ago. : )
Love this video. Very helpful. Ty.
This is another excellent video. You are doing a great job teaching a lot of us. Thanks!
This is another excellent video. You are doing a great job teaching a lot of us.
I appreciate that!
Thanks! Your content is the gold standard along with a few others on YT.
Thank You!
Thank you for producing this video. One one of the best ones out there for 12K Pv installation and setup.
I'm glad you found it helpful.
Thank you for taking the time to put these out and explain. I appreciate it
You're welcome, I'm glad you found it helpful!
Thanks! Super informative video, much appreciated.
Thank You!
Thank You!
Love your videos Dave. I’ve got 2 x 6000XP’s that are running flawlessly. I also used the Ready Rack from APA Solar, based on your first video. Love it!!
Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad my content is helping people.
Thanks Dave, I am planning on purchasing an EG4 unit.
I find the whole "use lead acid battery" approach very disturbing, given the problems I have had with other MPPT units.
Please manufacturers: Let me set the battery type to LiPO4, PERIOD!! Then provide the necessary software inputs to balance the system.
OR
Use some intelligent algorithms in you software to bring everything up to speed.
Confidence goes WAY low when the manufacturer requires us to be as well-versed as Everyday Dave is. Not all of us will be exposed to his excellent tutorial.
Bingo. No excuse for this.
You can hit the refresh button on the App to get a real time update and reading, it's located right next to the green light normal indicator.
I find the refresh button does not give real time information. My Emporia Vue can give up to the second data.
Don’t forget your bushings on those conduits 👍
Yes, good reminder for everyone. Thanks!
In the future, you can record the inverter's screen for better live updates. It updates way more frequently, at least on my 18kPV.
Knowledgeable, relevant, personable, great communicator.... your subscriber base will grow. I know it ticked up by one right now. And as a former Alaskan, where did you get that great hat??
I think it was actually Walmart in Wasilla.
I always enjoy you videos sir. Just wanted to give folks a heads up about saving a few hundred bucks on a soft start. EG4 says (and has a video on their channel) the 12k can start a 5ton ac unit while already running a few thousand watts worth of load. So maybe people can buy both and hold off on installing it to see if it's necessary. Thankya sir!
I would still use a soft start. It dramatically reduces the surge load on the electronics. It also increases the life of the compressor.
Solar assistant easily connects to the wifi dongle. Give u instant data. I would recommend getting a ras Pi and giving it a try.
Someone else mentioned that, I'll have to try it.
@@ProjectsWithDave there is also a refresh button on the app when connected through the internet. Takes about 5-10 seconds to update but you get near instant data. I’ve successfully used this with my 6kXP.
I have the 6000XP. There is no separate mounting bracket so you have to hold the 50 pound unit up againat the wall while you insert the mounting bolts. Requires two strong people.
The bracket is great! That's the way the Victron equipment installs as well.
Nice job, Dave! What a great and informative video!
is that a water-to-water geothermal heat pump? what kind of heat pump do you have?
did you do a under pressure start on air compressor? A compressor still under load is much harder than a no residual air start.
Hay Dave, does this system provide inputs for wind turbines with all the data, just as with solar? My plan is to have 4-6 wind turbines with a solar array. I am looking at going for both for my small 320-acre ranch here in Arizona. I also would like to ask if this system is scalable? I plan on starting out with 10KW and building up to a 60KW System all grid-tied with the added income of excess power being sold to my local power company which does allow net metering and will buy or credit back to my account the unused power I generate. Thanks for the amazing video.
Great overview and testing! I would only "need" 8kW for an inverter (ac coupled) to operate as backup but one spec not mentioned here - the 12kPV has an 80A max passthrough current. 18kPV has 200A, so I could do full house connection to the main panel. If I do go this route, I will probably also install a transfer switch to bypass the EG inverter, in case something fails and I want grid only power. $9K for the setup + some odds and ends, doing it myself call it $9500. Alternatively I could get a professional install and possibly a Tesla Powerwall + gateway for like $5K more. It's a tough decision because I'm sure if I sold the house it would be much better having that Powerwall...
Good point on the transfer capacity. If you plan to move soon, I probably wouldn't go through the trouble to install solar.
@ProjectsWithDave Oh, to specify my needs, I already have 2 solar arrays. The backup I install would be ac coupled unless I put it in my detached garage to replace the 5.1k SMA Inverter. I'm in Michigan though and that would be quite the temp swing. Also, for backup, the Inverter needs to be in my basement or use a gateway (like Powerwall) near the meter instead. Complex situation I guess. I'm about 2 years out on pulling the trigger, I still have met metering for 4 more years. I don't mean I would move soon but who knows, so I may want something that holds more value. I would hate paying to undo an install.
If you have 4 more years before you need the battery, I would wait. The technology is constantly changing you will probably be able to get more for your money in 4 years.
The 18K has a built in transfer switch.
@mikeyazel8725 yeah but you would rely on the 18K not failing to make sure you have power. I don't know if I want to wire my house like that. Either way, I'll wait a couple more years on this.
Thank you for the video!
Can you see individual cell voltage for the battery? Is there a cycle count?
When you say 2kW for your heat pump, is that just the outdoor unit, or does that consumption include the air handler?
If you disable the “Grid Sell Back” feature, does it prevent back feeding the grid all together?
Would it be possible to test the zero export function of the 12k?
Do you just want to know if the feature works, or is there a specific scenario you want to confirm?
Just to see if it works correctly. This seems like the inverter to get and not have to go through the grid tie permitting process as long as it works. Thanks for the detailed review!
I am in a zero export situation and am also curious about the bulletproofness of their mechanism. Are there codes that govern/approve/disapprove of these devices?
I’m really liking the EG4 products. My only concern is longevity. If EG4 made a transformer based inverter, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat.
The Victron multiplus are transformer based right?
I think that's a valid concern. Victron has a very long track record, giving one complete confidence. I'm running both, we'll see which one lasts longer. : )
@@ProjectsWithDave look at Schneider Electric for a bulletproof inverter system
I love these eg4 products 🎉 thanks for sharing 👍
For one person lift thinking of a rental engine lift they can lift up to 7 to 8 feet and you have tires on the lift to move it about. Just don’t go beyond the wheels 🛞 for tipping over.
Can you do a video on what you would recommend for a system today? I would like to install a battery backup, ~9KWatt system with an EV charger from the panel as well. Wouldn't mind if you could share possibly using an EV as a "battery backup" in case of emergency. Thanks!!
Thanks Dave. Way deeper in the weeds than I'm capable of but love the challenge of following along!
Wrt lithium batteries (LiFePO4) and how to use them: my system, an Enphase with 2 5P batteries, do you think it's better to discharge them each night (barring any forecasted storminess where you'd want a full charge all the time), or keep them fully charged and maybe exercise them once a month by draining them?
My system was configured by the installer as "self consumption" and I have no reason to doubt them (and it is what the Enphase software recommends), but I'm concerned about constantly cycling the batteries, and on the rare occasion we lose power, it's not necessarily due to a storm, which the Enphase software monitors the NWS for).
Lithium batteries like to be at about 50% state of charge. They don't like the extremes, fully charged or fully discharged. If you aren't getting a cost advantage from the discharge cycle, I would limit the discharge end of the cycle to 20%, that is the standard max discharge. If you have a grid tie agreement that allows you to sell back to the grid and you are not saving money by discharging the batteries than I would limit it to around 50%. Here is a typical chart for LiFePO4 batteries showing the expected life based on the depth of discharge: drive.google.com/file/d/1bQaRcWfQPhj2UwZLtLzEcAMjO_jci83d/view?usp=sharing
Lithium batteries are stored around at 50% to 60% SOC (State Of Charge) because that is where they are electrically balanced limiting dendrite growth. However, you do need to bring them to 100% periodically so the cells can be balanced.
HI: Does wall mount battery mean you have to wall mount? THis EG4 inverter has auto transfer switch? Thank you for the informative video.
Great video! I have the Sol-Ark 14K and I swear the chassis, internals and various buttons look the same! Oh, I have the outdoor EG4 wall mount 14K battery and it works like a champ!! Question, have you ever looked at Solar-Assistant? I think it is the coolest thing ever. Best part is you get all the stats in real-time, as everything is local. Worth looking at!
Thanks! I haven't tried Solar-Assistant, I'll have to check it out. I have an Emporia Vue that give me real time AC data.
Would love to see u do a firmware update on the battery
Do I need to install it near my breaker? My panels are on the other side of the house. There's a 20A 240V line going to that side of the house. Can I just connect that to the 12K and run? Can I limit the system to
Looks awesome would nice if you could do some AC coupling on the generator port in the future.
I have a whole list of things to try.
can we take a momment in awe at the marvel that was the linksys wrt54g?
What would happen if it was night, you have all of your loads running, lets 12-14k. I believe the 12kv model has 80 amp pass through so you’d be at 8000 from the battery and 4-6k from the grid. I’m assuming it would trip and reset.
I only need the capacity of the 6000xp but reading online it looks like it doesn’t have the grid assist feature, only in the sense that if load exceeds the inventor, it swaps everything over to grid vs just what it needs to make up the difference.
I haven't looked at the 6000XP in detail. I know my Victron inverter has grid assist. It's designed specifically to supply more power than a generator or weak shore power can provide by supplementing with the battery.
I have the same inverter as the one you just replaced. What are you doing with the old one. Was thinking of using it in parallel
You can contact me through my website: projectswithdave.com/about/
You should book up your older inverter that is just grid tied and still running and connect it to your gen input then it'll work all the time even if the grid goes down.
I plan to try that.
@@ProjectsWithDave My friend did this and it works great!
Thanks for the video.
This is the exact system I want to install
If I have the grid backup, do I need to worry about starting the table saw and other tools?
If the grid is connected, you shouldn't have an issues with anything as long as you don't exceed the max passthrough current. However, I was able to run everything I own even with the 12K off grid. You should be ok as long as you have a soft start for your AC or heat pump.
What does the “Fast Zero Export” setting do?
Hi Dave, is Victron still the primary system? Curious to know how it stacks up against the other systems you’re testing since Victron is considered the gold standard of solar off grid power
Dave love your material. Can you do a video on connecting to the grid?
I show the grid connection in detail in this video: th-cam.com/video/VkqUvd4c1-U/w-d-xo.html
I have a 40x40 3 sided pole barn that I would like to have some solar power in to run some lights minimally(to see when parking one of the vehicles in at dark), maybe have a trickle charger set up to keep tractor and rv batteries topped off. What would you recommend? I don't want to spend a fortune and there wouldn't be any power tools or anything to run.
If you are running LED lights it would not take very much. If you have no split phase loads you could do a simple setup with a single phase inverter and one or two server rack batteries. You could do a setup like the one in this video: th-cam.com/video/BzMAW8kW0CU/w-d-xo.html
But instead of using the Victron charge controller, use the EG4 3k inverter in this kit: signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-740-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/?ref=SALE
That kit has more capacity than you need, so you could scale back the batteries and solar panels to match your loads.
If that's too complex, you could also get away with using an all in one system, you can get an idea of the performance and options from these videos:
Bluetti: th-cam.com/video/_QMe8DWlr30/w-d-xo.html
Anker: th-cam.com/video/5H-w63thZiE/w-d-xo.html
Pecron: th-cam.com/video/ZlIbkhPPfGI/w-d-xo.html
Ecoflow: th-cam.com/video/NTpSEfAxWnw/w-d-xo.html
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks Dave. I thought about the all in one but figured the cold temps would hurt them.
How is the menu set up and overall ease of use on the EG4 12K versus the Victron equipment? I love the detail and ease of Victron software and menus!
The Victron setup has more options, but the EG4 should meet most peoples needs. The settings are not as intuitive as I would like, but once you figure them out its fine.
Great job on this one.
Thanks!
I would like to see you hook up that SolarEdge inverter to the 12kpv to see the process involved in that. As I only have a non hybrid SolarEdge inverter currently I don’t have batteries, can’t expand panels and if the grid goes down? I go down without power.
I was planning on trying that sometime. Both the Hoymiles micro inverters and the Solar Edge inverter. It's on my long list of things to do. : )
Great video. I have one question in regards to the ct , don't they have to be on the main panel ac line to monitor the incoming voltage.
The connection shown in the video is the grid connection lines.
How do you have this wired into your home power? Is it going directly from the inverter to your main panel?
It has to go through an AC disconnect then to the main panel.
Great info!!
Did you need a permit to export using that eg4 inverter? Are you using a subpanel? Or is it connected directly to the main breaker panel?
You need a permit from the building inspector for the electrical install and a net metering agreement with your utility company to sell back to the grid. Otherwise you would just supply loads in a home backup configuration. You can see the permit process in this video: th-cam.com/video/imiEYDHLG4A/w-d-xo.html
You can see hooking up to the grid for back feeding in this video: th-cam.com/video/VkqUvd4c1-U/w-d-xo.html
And this video: th-cam.com/video/_xA6qOwnYbM/w-d-xo.html
Question I hope you will answer. The AC amp output of that inverter is 33 to 38 amps. How are you running all that stuff on under 40 ams?
Off grid operation is 33.3A at 240V or 8,000W constant operation. For short periods it can supply much more. It is rated for 10kW for up to 1min. Grid Passthrough current is 80A or 19,200W.
thanks for the video !!.....i do like the EG4, could you show us how to incorporate a gas generator (little 5K portable) to charge the batteries safely? i havent figured that out on this system....maybe you can? also i didnt see a video about the sungold inverter....i did like the toroidal type transformer type inverters at first, and was always interested in them, as they are a much lower price than a victron !
I want to setup up the 12KPV so that it does not sell power to the grid. Can the 12KPV supply power to the main panel connected to the grid and feed circuits on that panel with the sell back feature disabled?
In your situation, I would put the whole load center on the load side of the inverter and feed power into the input side. You might need the 18KPV to achieve the typical day time use of the whole home.
This is the 18KPV, it has more passthrough capacity: signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kpv-hybrid-inverter-eg4-18kpv-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/?ref=SALE
Dave, Can you combine the wall mount battery with a couple of rack mounts?
Yes and no. I have tried it with my system. If they are both LiFePO4 and the capacities are similar you can do it with some success. You will find that the SOC for each pack drifts apart over time. If you charge the system to 100% SOC every 3 to 5 days to re synchronize the packs it works ok.
How long does it take to charge that one battery from zero using the max amount of solar the unit is rated for?
How many watts does this idle at. The inverter with nothing running?
My Emporia energy monitor is showing about 125W on average.
Great video. I've had the 18Kpv since Feb and my only question on your settings is the PV Charge Priority. I have mine set to Disable so that PV will supply loads first then charge batteries (also I'm grid tied). The pop-up explanation next to the setting states that it "Routes the majority of PV productin to charge the batteries"
Can you clarify why you chose to charge batteries before supplying loads?
Thanks, I figured it was a more common setting for those who have variable electricity rates, it make sure the battery is fully charged for consumption at peak pricing.
Love this! In your opinion, at what point (price & functionality) would you consider this system over a dual Ecoflow or dual Anker 3800 system like what you have reviewed in the past?
I would only go with an all-in-one system like Ecoflow or Anker if you don't have the capability to install a modular system. With a modular system, you can make upgrades more easily and you have more control over each part of the system.
@@ProjectsWithDave Understood! I appreciate the feedback. We may do an all-in-one for this house and most likely a modular for the home we plan to build next year.
Do you use your SE inverter at the same time with the EG4 inverter to send power to the grid? If so, when the grid goes down, will the SE inverter know to shut down (or will it sense the waveform from the EG4 and try to keep running)? I assume that you only feed the grid from one at a time??
When the grid goes down the EG4 will also stop exporting, it will not create it's own waveform on the grid side. If you want the SE inverter to keep running it has to be connected to the Generator input on the EG4 and configured for AC coupling.
I am in a unique situation because my panels (16) are all Enphase IQ7+ (5.6Kwh) to a single combiner box with the PV disconnect in the main 200 A panel. All videos have panel strings directly connected to the Inverter but mine are connected to the panel. If the Inverter is AC coupled to the panel can it “see” the PV or can I only monitor the PV through the Enphase app?
Additionally, I was looking at a Sungold 10K Hybrid ($2100) which is considerably cheaper than the EG4 but who wants problems, still $1500 might be worth a bit of risk.
Finally, My house has all natural gas appliances. The only 240v item is a small 3000w AC unit. My utility load is only 15 KW per day so I am confident the 12K + indoor wall mount will work. My bill is currently negative but I can manage things better and avoid the odd outage.
I suggest you get an electrician to look at your actual situation. I'm not an electrician and would not want to have a miscommunication that could lead to a dangerous situation.
If I understand the situation correctly, these are my thoughts for reference: If you want to operate the micro inverter system through the 12K, you would connect the Enphase output to the Generator input on the 12K. Then the Line side connection on the 12K would go to the PV disconnect. All the loads you want to run when the power is out would be on the 12K output side.
can you recharge your battery bank with a generator ?
Dave, i'm looking at getting a Ford Lightning and want to know if we can connect the Pro power to this inverter and make see as battery or generator? let me know if what i'm asking make sense or not.
Are you asking if you can back feed the generator port with your Ford Lightning?
@@ProjectsWithDave sorry Dave I just don't know too much about this subject. I'm on Time of Use so i want to know if there a way so i can use this 100kw truck as Tesla power wall.
Given how rare power outages are, I'd let the battery drain all the way to 0% during one if needed. Going to 0% a few times over 10 years is not a big deal, especially since it'll charge again as soon as the sun is up.
Yes, I think that is a reasonable perspective.
Outdoor wall mount battery costs slightly mote
Must be nice to live in a state where you can freely do this.. metro CA, not so much.
You are very good with ALL of the Setting!!! So Yes,,, I'm Following You and Will P~~~ LOL
Thanks for watching! I'm glad the settings info is helpful!
They seem to have off grid for _
$2500 and grid one for $3500
I think wall mount comes with cables
Just curious,I installed an 18k with Ethos batteries last summer and the only glitch was I can’t start a hair dryer on low as it resets the inverter,if I start on high and turn it down no problem. Are you seeing this on yours?
That is strange. I can't imagine why you would have that issue. Maybe it is detecting an arc fault somehow. If it is repeatable, I would report it to the manufacture.
@ I did and they asked me to totally separate the panel and inverter grounds by actually adding a separate ground rod. My electrician did this after I was gone for the winter but we’ll see in the spring.
Do you still have the Victron or Bluetti systems installed?
Yes
I've got a idea bouncing around my head I'd like some constructive criticism on it's a outside the box idea so please give the hole concept some thought. What got me thinking about this is LED light bulb's around the house all waisting energy converting AC to DC and configured in 🤯way's to run low V LED's on 110-240AC. Solar panels are DC and when you start looking around your home it's surprising how many things are actually running on DC under 24v eg TV PC Router USB chargers the heat given off by power supply's and inverters is all wasted energy so dose it not make sense to have a solar powered DC supply around the house
You are not the first one to propose DC. You are in good company with Thomas Edison: www.energy.gov/articles/war-currents-ac-vs-dc-power
CURIOUS:
my EG4-LL ( series 2 ) 48-volt Rack-Mount batteries do have FIRE SUPPRESSION ... has EG4 eliminated fire suppression in the EG4-LL - S ???
COOP
...
Good question. I didn't take one apart to check, but it isn't in the spec sheet that I could find. Maybe someone who has the battery can answer.
Can you do some reviews on the Vevor wind turbines they look legit I’m going to get the 5 blade 500W turbine sells for only $108 when you sign up to be a member for free usually $131
I haven't tried a wind turbine yet. They don't seem worth the effort and cost. Let me know how it works for you.
Dave, just want to point out, your string of 11 panels is likely to exceed 600 VOC, when you factor in your VOC temperature adjustment factor. Not sure where you are in Ohio, but using the generic VOC temperature calculation in the national electric code, if it gets below 4F in the winter, you would exceed 600 volts.
Take a look at NEC 690.7 for the table
HOWdy P-w-E-D-D, ...
Thanks - observation - Every-DaY Dave = is verging on " bourgeois " DAVE
with ALL these high-end TOYS 🙂
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
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😂TH-cam has given me a way to "justify" trying all kinds of fun solar activities. I just tell myself, "It's for a good cause." 😀
Dude how much power are you using.
Lots... My whole house is electric and I have an electric car.
I run 4 ton hvac with no soft start…
I would add a soft start. That will likely improve the life of the HVAC and the inverter.
Just make sure you want that item because if you decide to return it to Signature Solar they will charge you a restocking fee!!
Good point. Hopefully, videos like this will help you understand the equipment capability and limits so you can make an informed choice. The equipment is very heavy so shipping back and forth with all the handling is very expensive.
Not sure why anyone would order this type of equipment and then want to return them, shipping cost for heavy items are excessive. This is not like ordering items from Amazon.
@@Rock_Nemo I ordered the EG4 3000w had it for 2 weeks and wanted to trade it in for the 6000 XP pay the difference but they also wanted me to pay a restocking fee. I just wish they would mention that when you're buying an item from them!
It's for off grid use
Easy install my a$$, can’t get battery to sync with 18k. EG4 hasn’t returned my request for help in 24 hrs. This is ridiculous!!
I’ve watched dozens of videos seeking help, even Will Prowse had this trouble but he has an inside cell number to tech support. 👎
I called the standard tech support line 4 times and had someone answer within 5min. Is it an EG4 battery? I did not have any communication issues. Are you getting an error?
8kw wouldn't even power my whole home for 3 hours.
Wall mount battery costs $3300 you might.find cheaper buy 2 I think it comes with cables which saves money, 2 batteries would be about 28 kw which would run most homes
@samfish6938 my house uses between 60 and 80 kwh per day, depending on time of year.