Used to love this game, my German army stayed undefeated for years. Still have a huge collection of mid and late war Germans even though I dont play anymore. Battle front mostly with some plastic soldier, tanks, tigers, mk 3s, mk 4s, Panthers, Tigers 1 and II tons of trucks half trucks infantry snipers artillery. Fun game.
Nice looking models, but that's not how the assault rules work at all. If all teams that charge into contact are destroyed or bailed, the assault never happens. There is no need to counterattack, the defenders don't get to attack teams that didn't charge into contact, and no one else has to move. Defensive Fire happens before the assault, and can prevent the assault from happening in ways just like in this video
Thanks for the brilliant content mate. I am still waiting for Mark to pick up a call; and tell whoever on the other side that he doesn’t have money, but has a very particular set of skills…
Thanks for the video. What’s the buy-in for this game? First I’m assuming ver.4. So if I were buying in for May son and I to play, I need units and some sort of reference book? I think I’ve seen starter boxes. Is that the best way to get in?
Hi John, I need a bit of advice, please. Jake has used a laser that 'painted ' the table top to work out a Line of Sight. What kind of laser pointer is it called, please? I bought a laser pointer, but that's all it did....not what I am after! I have tried...and am still trying to ascertain what exactly that sort of laser pointer is called....but no luck yet here in New Zealand. Can you tell me what that type of laser pointer is, please?
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall ahhh, great thanks, ive not expanded my american forces from the starter set yet having focused on germans and british forces so far.
If the assaulting unit doesn't actually get a chance to roll any assault dice, like what happened in US Turn 4, does the enemy side have to counterattack or break off? Two shermans failed their cross checks and the third sherman got destroyed by defensive fire: I would have thought for sure that the assault failed to occur. And it was important because the Germans lost their dug in status when they failed their counterattack roll.
Found this on page 75 of the current rule book: "Each enemy Team within 8"/20 cm of an Assaulting Team (one that is in contact with an enemy Team) is a defending Team and Shoots as if it was their Shooting Step." Which means that the Shermans that failed their cross checks aren't considered Assaulting Teams, so the assault was over when the lone Sherman got toasted.
Hi Bill. Page 75 is referring to Defensive fire. At that point in the game defensive fire is over and we are in the assault phase. The rules in question isP.78 Check to see if the assault is over. (In this case it was not over as the active Sherman was still within 4" of the German Infantry team.) The Americans didn't win the assault, so we go to a German test to counterattack.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall Jon, the question here is which Shermans were considered Assaulting Teams. Take a look at the Charge into Contact rule on page 73. Quote: "An Assaulting Unit moves any of its Tank or Infantry Teams up to 4"/10 cm into Contact with an enemy Team by the shortest route. These Teams are now Assaulting Teams." Later it says: "Teams that cannot Contact an enemy Team cannot Assault." The Shermans that failed their cross checks never became Assaulting Teams, because they never made contact. (as an aside, they also were not valid targets for defensive fire) The rule you reference says: "The Assaulting Unit has won if all Defending Teams that could be Contacted by the Assaulting Teams with a further 4"/10 cm Move have been Destroyed or are Bailed Out." The key phrase here being "Assaulting Teams." After defensive fire, there were no Assaulting Teams left, because the two Shermans that failed their cross checks are not Assaulting Teams, and the Sherman that did pass its cross check was destroyed by the panzerfaust. So technically the conclusion is that the Assaulting Unit falls back, because all of the Assaulting Teams were destroyed by defensive fire, and the Assault is over.
It's sort of a fortuitous mistake, in that in trying to parse the rules to figure out the answer really crystalized my understanding of the Assault Step, particularly what constitutes an Assaulting Team. Also it was gratifying to see that Phil's rules do answer the question, even though you have to dig a little. He probably should add something to LFTF to clarify it, but he'll likely feel that what he has in the rulebook is enough. In any case, it was clearly the Hellcats that won the battle. Mark's stuff just ended up being in all the wrong places in hindsight. If he could have had his Panthers opposite the Shermans, the flak halftracks opposite the Hellcats, and the Jadgpanthers opposite the Super Pershing, things could have gone much better for the Germans.
Hi Bill, I think you're right in the defensive fire step is where the mistake is. Under P76 Forcing the assault back. The key is that 2 or more of them is bailed out/destroyed(Or all of them if less) by defensive fire then the assaulting unit falls back. Since only the Jumbo made contact and is the only assaulting team, since it was bailed out it would move back 2" and the assault would be over. Thanks for the discussion, always helpful!
Beautiful models - nice terrain too! Although you got the assault rules competely wrong. The Germans repulsed all those attacks on their right very easily.
Nice Looking Battle here .. That’s a LOT of Germans in Halftracks … I’m only into turn 1 and I already have a question… the stone bridge… who makes that terrain piece??? I have the rural roads but no cobblestone roads so my battles have been in the countryside… I’ve been considering expanding the terrain… and a couple of bridges and a river may be a little cheaper than a lot more buildings and cobblestone roads to add a town
1:13:27 the are not counterattack because tha assault is over when mark bailed the tank... Why does Mark roll the dice to fight back? he shouldn't have retired
I went back and replayed German Turn 4. I think the Panthers would have had 2 shots at the Hellcats instead of not shooting at all since they seemed too focused looking forward. It would have been long range, concealed, and +1 for failed blitz. A hail Mary for sure, but at least a try instead of not shooting at all? Otherwise, great battle report and just a few better die rolls could have swung the game in the German's favor.
I have a rules question. I am new to FoW. I have not played any games but I have watched many battle reports and never seen this addressed. Page 11 of the rules (under ARMORED TANK TEAM SAVES) states that when a turreted vehicle is hit there is a 50/50 chance the turret will be hit - and the armor value of the turret is the same as the front armor. This is obviously only important when a turreted tank is hit in the flank. I have never seen the rule applied in all the battle reports I have watched. Am I interpreting this rule incorrectly or has the rule been changed?
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall Thank you for the reply. I have a feeling many people forget the rule because it really only effects flank attacks. You appear to have missed it at about 50:00 when you took out the Panthers. Mistakes happen, but as a newbie they can cause someone to question the meaning of the rules. Perhaps the worst example is the official FOW TH-cam channel. They have some demo games which they apparently made quite a few mistakes. I guess the best learning tool is actually playing, not watching. Great channel BTW. I love your variety of content.
@@haroldhardrada7449 Hi, and thanks for the comments. I checked the timestamp and the super Pershing fired at the front of a panther. Neither the turret or hull were turned away. Not sure if this is the moment you referring to
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall It was the Hellcats at about 49:30 (before the Pershing's shot) that hit the flank of the Panthers. But in fairness, I am more concerned with understanding the rules rather than the result of this one game.
@@haroldhardrada7449 got you. Yeah that situation wouldn't trigger the rule. Since the Panthers turrets were all facing the same direction as the hull. Towards the objective. The hellcats all got side shots regardless of turret or hull.
Love the channel, love the batreps, but I have to "boo" you for using a Super Pershing. There was 1, that shot 1 tank in the whole war. There were literally 400 times as many Jadgpanthers, and 50,000 times as many Shermans. If you did nothing but play Flames of War battles for the rest of your life with forces assigned randomly by statistical distribution, you would most likely never see one on the table. I feel the same way about a list I once played against that featured Erwin Rommel personally leading like 5 of the 9 Diana portee guns that ever existed. Might as well play 40k, at least that has chainsaw swords.
It's just a game - please stop with this "historical list" BS. Geez just let people have fun with thier models - it is only a game with plastic models :)
Variety keeps the game fresh...if all we ever played with was Sherman's and 'vanilla' equipment, the game wouldn't be as fun. If my opponent wants to run a super P or any lesser seen vehicle, no problem, let's roll dice and have a laugh.
Mounted assault in V4 absolutely SUCKS compared to V3. Some of V4 is a nice change, but it's far from "better", especially in list construction. Not a fan of the cards at all. Sooo cheesy.
Used to love this game, my German army stayed undefeated for years. Still have a huge collection of mid and late war Germans even though I dont play anymore. Battle front mostly with some plastic soldier, tanks, tigers, mk 3s, mk 4s, Panthers, Tigers 1 and II tons of trucks half trucks infantry snipers artillery. Fun game.
Nice looking models, but that's not how the assault rules work at all. If all teams that charge into contact are destroyed or bailed, the assault never happens. There is no need to counterattack, the defenders don't get to attack teams that didn't charge into contact, and no one else has to move. Defensive Fire happens before the assault, and can prevent the assault from happening in ways just like in this video
Infantry teams who didnt shoot or move get concealment and gone to ground even in the open. (As long as its not a street or something similar)
Thanks for the game folks. It was very tight and and not at all predictable.
Thanks! I think it could have gone either way. Good play by Mark!
Superb video, love the return of the Panthers 😍 you've motivated me to get some (more) painted up 😅
Really enjoyed this, great stuff.
After seeing this to think I'm going to have to buy some half tracks to mechanize all my panzer grenadiers
Thanks for the brilliant content mate.
I am still waiting for Mark to pick up a call; and tell whoever on the other side that he doesn’t have money, but has a very particular set of skills…
Looking good John! Thanks for the latest releases’ BatReps! Always a blast watching these!
Glad you like them!
I just stated and ot looks so fun to play on a full table and terrain, maybe we'll meet one day :D
great show been absent for a while good to see ya😀
Welcome back!
Thanks for the video. What’s the buy-in for this game? First I’m assuming ver.4. So if I were buying in for May son and I to play, I need units and some sort of reference book? I think I’ve seen starter boxes. Is that the best way to get in?
The Starter sets are a great way to go. Depending on what you want there is the late war starter and the Mid War desert and eastern front Starters.
When the M18 Hellcats were shooting at the infantry, didn't you need another +1 to hit for No HE? (I wondered why you didn't use their MGs)
Great Catch! thanks for the comment, you are right.
Hi John, I need a bit of advice, please. Jake has used a laser that 'painted ' the table top to work out a Line of Sight. What kind of laser pointer is it called, please? I bought a laser pointer, but that's all it did....not what I am after! I have tried...and am still trying to ascertain what exactly that sort of laser pointer is called....but no luck yet here in New Zealand. Can you tell me what that type of laser pointer is, please?
We used this one from army painter. Hope it helps www.thearmypainter.com/shop/us/tl5046p
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall VERY helpful, thank you, John! My future opponents should be shaking in their boots right now.
Loving all the battle reports, being a latecomer to fow.....if i can ask....where is the superpershing from? I havent seen it on sale anywhere? thanks
The normal Pershing platoon box gives you the option to build the super Pershing.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall ahhh, great thanks, ive not expanded my american forces from the starter set yet having focused on germans and british forces so far.
If the assaulting unit doesn't actually get a chance to roll any assault dice, like what happened in US Turn 4, does the enemy side have to counterattack or break off? Two shermans failed their cross checks and the third sherman got destroyed by defensive fire: I would have thought for sure that the assault failed to occur. And it was important because the Germans lost their dug in status when they failed their counterattack roll.
Found this on page 75 of the current rule book: "Each enemy Team within 8"/20 cm of an Assaulting Team (one that is in contact with an enemy Team) is a defending Team and Shoots as if it was their Shooting Step." Which means that the Shermans that failed their cross checks aren't considered Assaulting Teams, so the assault was over when the lone Sherman got toasted.
Hi Bill. Page 75 is referring to Defensive fire. At that point in the game defensive fire is over and we are in the assault phase. The rules in question isP.78 Check to see if the assault is over. (In this case it was not over as the active Sherman was still within 4" of the German Infantry team.) The Americans didn't win the assault, so we go to a German test to counterattack.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall Jon, the question here is which Shermans were considered Assaulting Teams.
Take a look at the Charge into Contact rule on page 73. Quote: "An Assaulting Unit moves any of its Tank or Infantry Teams up to 4"/10 cm into Contact with an enemy Team by the shortest route. These Teams are now Assaulting Teams." Later it says: "Teams that cannot Contact an enemy Team cannot Assault." The Shermans that failed their cross checks never became Assaulting Teams, because they never made contact. (as an aside, they also were not valid targets for defensive fire)
The rule you reference says: "The Assaulting Unit has won if all Defending Teams that could be Contacted by the Assaulting Teams with a further 4"/10 cm Move have been Destroyed or are Bailed Out." The key phrase here being "Assaulting Teams." After defensive fire, there were no Assaulting Teams left, because the two Shermans that failed their cross checks are not Assaulting Teams, and the Sherman that did pass its cross check was destroyed by the panzerfaust.
So technically the conclusion is that the Assaulting Unit falls back, because all of the Assaulting Teams were destroyed by defensive fire, and the Assault is over.
It's sort of a fortuitous mistake, in that in trying to parse the rules to figure out the answer really crystalized my understanding of the Assault Step, particularly what constitutes an Assaulting Team. Also it was gratifying to see that Phil's rules do answer the question, even though you have to dig a little. He probably should add something to LFTF to clarify it, but he'll likely feel that what he has in the rulebook is enough.
In any case, it was clearly the Hellcats that won the battle. Mark's stuff just ended up being in all the wrong places in hindsight. If he could have had his Panthers opposite the Shermans, the flak halftracks opposite the Hellcats, and the Jadgpanthers opposite the Super Pershing, things could have gone much better for the Germans.
Hi Bill, I think you're right in the defensive fire step is where the mistake is. Under P76 Forcing the assault back. The key is that 2 or more of them is bailed out/destroyed(Or all of them if less) by defensive fire then the assaulting unit falls back. Since only the Jumbo made contact and is the only assaulting team, since it was bailed out it would move back 2" and the assault would be over. Thanks for the discussion, always helpful!
Beautiful models - nice terrain too! Although you got the assault rules competely wrong. The Germans repulsed all those attacks on their right very easily.
Hmm, will have to look. I’ve not been playing FOW for a long time so still trying to get all my rules back on track.
Oh I see, since I bailed or destroyed all assaulting teams, the assault fails. Don’t need 2 since only 1 tank was assaulting each time.
@@markfrancis8978 yeah the attack failed. Better luck next time!
Nice Looking Battle here .. That’s a LOT of Germans in Halftracks … I’m only into turn 1 and I already have a question… the stone bridge… who makes that terrain piece??? I have the rural roads but no cobblestone roads so my battles have been in the countryside… I’ve been considering expanding the terrain… and a couple of bridges and a river may be a little cheaper than a lot more buildings and cobblestone roads to add a town
Thanks, The bridge is, I believe, long oop. It was made by Safari Limited
Dice Check 😂
what pts limit was this game?
1 6 in 18 thats some bad dice man thats like me and my odds
It seems like you just castled in opposite directions 😃
Yeah, that can be the downside of missions like Encounter.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall I love situations like this when you have to quickly push your enemy before he pushes you. It's quite funny to watch
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall thanks for your videos!
Love the bat reps but deeply dislike the use of Super Pershing.
1:13:27 the are not counterattack because tha assault is over when mark bailed the tank... Why does Mark roll the dice to fight back? he shouldn't have retired
An error, just very rusty with the rules.
I went back and replayed German Turn 4. I think the Panthers would have had 2 shots at the Hellcats instead of not shooting at all since they seemed too focused looking forward. It would have been long range, concealed, and +1 for failed blitz. A hail Mary for sure, but at least a try instead of not shooting at all? Otherwise, great battle report and just a few better die rolls could have swung the game in the German's favor.
I have a rules question.
I am new to FoW. I have not played any games but I have watched many battle reports and never seen this addressed.
Page 11 of the rules (under ARMORED TANK TEAM SAVES) states that when a turreted vehicle is hit there is a 50/50 chance the turret will be hit - and the armor value of the turret is the same as the front armor. This is obviously only important when a turreted tank is hit in the flank. I have never seen the rule applied in all the battle reports I have watched. Am I interpreting this rule incorrectly or has the rule been changed?
That is correct. Usually this doesn't come up too often in our games but it's still a thing. We never ignore it.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall
Thank you for the reply. I have a feeling many people forget the rule because it really only effects flank attacks. You appear to have missed it at about 50:00 when you took out the Panthers. Mistakes happen, but as a newbie they can cause someone to question the meaning of the rules. Perhaps the worst example is the official FOW TH-cam channel. They have some demo games which they apparently made quite a few mistakes. I guess the best learning tool is actually playing, not watching.
Great channel BTW. I love your variety of content.
@@haroldhardrada7449 Hi, and thanks for the comments. I checked the timestamp and the super Pershing fired at the front of a panther. Neither the turret or hull were turned away. Not sure if this is the moment you referring to
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall
It was the Hellcats at about 49:30 (before the Pershing's shot) that hit the flank of the Panthers. But in fairness, I am more concerned with understanding the rules rather than the result of this one game.
@@haroldhardrada7449 got you. Yeah that situation wouldn't trigger the rule. Since the Panthers turrets were all facing the same direction as the hull. Towards the objective. The hellcats all got side shots regardless of turret or hull.
Love the channel, love the batreps, but I have to "boo" you for using a Super Pershing. There was 1, that shot 1 tank in the whole war. There were literally 400 times as many Jadgpanthers, and 50,000 times as many Shermans. If you did nothing but play Flames of War battles for the rest of your life with forces assigned randomly by statistical distribution, you would most likely never see one on the table. I feel the same way about a list I once played against that featured Erwin Rommel personally leading like 5 of the 9 Diana portee guns that ever existed. Might as well play 40k, at least that has chainsaw swords.
It's just a game - please stop with this "historical list" BS. Geez just let people have fun with thier models - it is only a game with plastic models :)
Boy you seem fun. It's a game of toy soldiers. Chill
thanks! regarding the Super Pershing, sometimes you just want to play with the best toys.
Variety keeps the game fresh...if all we ever played with was Sherman's and 'vanilla' equipment, the game wouldn't be as fun. If my opponent wants to run a super P or any lesser seen vehicle, no problem, let's roll dice and have a laugh.
Mounted assault in V4 absolutely SUCKS compared to V3. Some of V4 is a nice change, but it's far from "better", especially in list construction. Not a fan of the cards at all. Sooo cheesy.