"And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham." -- Mt 3:9
Reading 'Israel' as being the actual lost tribes, is what motivated me to read the entire Bible, for the first time in my life. I picked up this idea from watching 'Tomorrow's World' on t.v. and reading their booklets. After that I parted ways with them. It brings new light to the prophets and to a lot of the Old Testament passages, too. Also, Jesus said he was sent for 'the lost sheep of Israel'.
Paul means the Israelites who've rejected Jesus (Romans 11 etc.) - not the lost tribes in particular (who in any case in part returned already after Bablylonian captivity, if you compare 1 Chronicles 9 to 1 Kings 15 and 17)
Thanks gentlemen! Our group has been discussing this for 20+ years. I have been teaching and preaching that one has to understand "Who is Israel" for all these years. Batya Wooten wrote many books with this title. If one joins spiritual knowledge and academic knowledge sometimes we get amazing results 🎉
Great presentation!!! I first understood this in 2000. I look forward to more from Jason. Thank you James for having him on. And thanks for your insights also. You have known these thing also. Blessings!
Perhaps I've missed something, but has not the presumption of _Supercessionists_ always been that the Church is the "Israel" of which Paul writes in those passages? Since Supersessionism is such an old idea, what is so new about accepting that Paul's thinking that Gentiles who are "circumcised of the heart" really are the Israel of which Hosea prophesied?
Sounds like what he said towards the end is that Israel had been so assimilated in the nations through intermarriage that in order to bring Israel in again it would require bringing in all the nations so it would look like people who God once said was not his people would become his people. Maybe I misunderstood as well but that's what I concluded.
In practice, Christians tend to read Israel as meaning Christians when it says something good, and in the very next verse when it says something bad they interpret it as meaning modern Rabbinical Jews. Neither one is ever the original authorial intent.
@exillens Hosea 2 is a pretty solid example. It's very common in the prophetic writings to have a bunch of wrath and fury against the people, followed by this sudden switch into mercy and compassion. It's basically portraying Yahweh's abusive relationship with his people. Hosea, overall, might be the most stark example of that, but sections of Jeremiah and Isaiah both come close.
@@exillens Deuteronomy 28 is also a classic example, but in a slightly different form. It's more in the "vassal contract" style where it pledges that if the contract is upheld, some good things will happen, and if the contract isn't upheld, then every imaginable bad thing will happen and the dominant nation (e.g. the lords) will unleash their armies against the rebellious villages. Much of Deuteronomy is from the 700-600s BCE, late monarchy period, after the Assyrian invasion and just before the Babylonian invasion, so the authors are assuming that both the good and bad things have happened / will continue to happen in cycles, and this will be the rough explanation for those eras of good and bad luck, natural disasters and bounties, wars and peace treaties, and so on. It's in the same "abusive relationship" theme I mentioned earlier, but it's a little more clear in its underlying political and legal nature. Cynically, this is King Josiah's court (or maybe Hezekiah's) telling his people "follow my laws or the rain will stop and our nation will be overcome by the empires around us."
Dr. Tabor, I find this "new idea" of Jason Staples totally unconvincing. He correctly defined Jesus' gospel as announcing the imminent arrival of the restoration of the Israelite Kingdom and a restored Davidic monarchy. But that did not happen, and so Jesus' gospel was transformed into a message about the death and resurrection of the Messiah. Paul claimed that he was chosen to be the apostle to the gentiles. That presented a problem for Paul's ideology. What about the original gospel of Jesus and the restoration of the kingdom of Israel? Paul apparently believed that God would miraculously restore all 12 tribes of Israel in the future, and so "all Israel will be saved". In the interim, Paul believed it was the opportunity for the gentiles to be saved. Paul does not say that the gentiles being saved are the "scattered tribes of Israel" which is what Jason appears to be saying. Paul specifically wrote that the gentiles, "a wild olive shoot", were being grafted into the place where the Israelite "branches" were broken off. Further, Paul wrote that Israel has been blinded until the "full number of gentiles" have come in. Paul does not say that the gentiles are the "scattered tribes of Israel" being restored. Jason also misreads Hosea in the same way that Paul misquoted Hosea. In its context "Those who were not my people" is a reference to the Israelites not to gentiles as Paul believed. So, no. I think Jason's new ideas are not supported by the text. I would be surprised if my objections have not been echoed by other more learned men and women.
Genesis 48: 5“And now, your two sons, Ephrayim and Menashsheh, who were born to you in the land of Mitsrayim before I came to you in Mitsrayim, are 🔸mine (Jacob/Israel) - as Re’uḇĕn and Shim‛on, they are mine. 6“Your offspring whom you shall bring forth after them are yours, and let them be called by the name of their brothers in their inheritance. … 19bAnd yet, his younger brother is greater than he, and his seed is to become the 🔸completeness of the nations.”❣️❣️❣️
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the argument, but it’s pretty common to refer to the Christian Church as “spiritual Israel”, at least in my experience among churches I’ve attended. So I don’t understand why this is a surprising revelation. Not to take anything away from the work done.
The Israel of God Paul always looked forward to is explained in 1 Corinthians 15: "50 Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. What he says afterwards does make for a good read.
At the 17:00 mark when y’all are discussing the insider/outsider use of “Jew” vs “Israelite” I think he’s hovering over the mark. My research has shown that the real trick / confusion is in the recent (1800’s fwd) adoption of the shorthand “Jew” within the context of a brand new language: English. It was always rendered “judeans”. Like Americans. No one is under the presumption that it’s one people group and one code and one god etc. but when you switch up all the “judeans” to “Jew” references in all rockerfeller forward literature… th waters get muddied. Of course outsiders referred to them as judeans. It’s only in the last 200 ish years it’s been conceptually linked with Judaism … but the term (as I’m sure Dr Tabor knows) is from the Yahudi. The region after the namesake of Yahudah or its phonetic ancient Hebraic/Aramaic equivalent… but the “Judeans” is how they always couched it, not the “Jews” and that little truncation in modern prints and publishings is making it tricky when all these other reasons are valid too, all pointing at the same thing: people be misunderstanding what they’re even reading. I take the tone that this is purposeful, but not exclusive to the religious texts, it spans all the industries. Replace “Jew” with “judean” meaning rando Greek that was living in the region that happened to be named after Judah once the tribe known as Israel went splitsville 1000 years earlier and most of Judah has been killed or turned out on some asherah pole somewhere or scattered by the time any of this stuff was written down. The miracle is watching the most high bring it all back into his will and purpose during this season of learning. We appreciate your perspective 👊🏽 and I’m gonna big Joshua Davis to get me a puppy and set up this dinner situation!
Enjoyed this conversation. I'm a little taken aback though as if this is some kind of new insight! But my Bible has always cross-referenced Hosea 1:9-10 with I Peter 2:10 and Romans 9:25-26. Of course these lost tribes called "Israel" were eventually going to be regathered under the Lordship of the Christ. Surely that's what's going on in Jerimiah's New Covenant too. Reuniting the divorced part of Israel with Judah. I've heard people discuss this Hosea passage over the years -- Steve Gregg in his Romans lectures raised the possibility that these Gentile Christian converts might actually contain a remnant of Hosea's lost ethnic Israelites of seven centuries prior to Christ. But I think he prefers a more spiritual approach to the passage. At any rate, I can appreciate a pretty literal approach -- how over such a long period of time and intermarrying, they would be practically indistinguishable from garden-variety Gentiles. God is in control - he reunites Israel and brings in the Gentiles at the same time. Paul had a problem in that Isaiah said "All Israel will be saved", but looking around that wasn't what he was seeing. For the most part, they were not being saved. That's the backstory for Roman's 9-11. The explanation given is that God will always have a REMNANT, the true "tree" of Israel, with his believing people grafted in or cut off as required. It's about faith, not DNA. Thus Paul concludes "...and so [in this manner] all Israel will be saved". That's not an eschatological statement. That's how it was happening in Paul's day. Dr. Tabor used to be employed by Ambassador College way back when. Wonder if he read those weird British-Israelite booklets :-) (Maybe that's why academic types generally seem to avoid the subject of the lost 10 tribes). But glad you guys talked about this today. You guys bolstered my confirmation bias.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
@@AsterixDaBriton I like the grafted in analogy, but it implies the Old Covenant remains in force. Gentiles are not grafted into the Old Covenant but into Christ. Christ is the true vine.
Great video and interview! Will have to get Dr. Staples’ books. I have to say out of the NT, for me, obsession for what Jesus said is followed by my #2 obsession for Paul’s writings/travels. Paul wrote a lot of the NT so it’s easy to be interested in his writings. I love that Dr. Staples is tackling the justice stuff at the Paul Conference.
This isn’t that hard to understand despite decades of many Christians missing/ or ignoring it. Jason Staples’ work is absolutely amazing! He totally gets it!! Others like Batya Wootten and Ephraim and Rimona Frank have been at this for a long time as well. Genesis 48, all 14 chapters of Hosea, the new covenant in Jeremiah, the two sticks of Ezekiel and many other prophets of God speak of this. It’s almost too easy yet many don’t see it, ignore it, or reject it.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
I have signed up for the New Insights conference, but won't catch it live as I'm on the other side of the world and will be asleep. Regarding Jason's theme, there's nothing new about the idea that salvation, according to Paul, means aligning to godly values and consenting to being transformed into a doer of justice, and that when Paul speaks of "salvation by faith" he is using "faith" in a kind of synecdochal sense, in that he is using one step of a process as a label to represent the entire process. This is how I understood Paul when I was Christian (Protestant), and a great many other Christians have understood Paul the same way. Anyone who denies this is either lying to you or hasn't been exposed to much diversity of Christian thought. However, I'm sure that Jason will add a few twists. Most Christians who hold to this interpretation would say that the bulk of this transformation takes place in the next life, not in this life. Does Jason agree? We will see.
Isaiah 9.14-15, describes Israel (summer) as the four constellation of Leo, Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio or roughly July, August, September, and October. Leo is the royal/noble one and this constellation has Jupiter ruled by the Sun. Thus making Jupiter as a sun god being the King of Israel.
The truth is, he wasn't... nor has he ever been. Please conier this: Dr. Tabor has spoken of the charges laid by the Ebionites that the priests had changed the Torah to create and secure for themselves a position of power.. where before it was the prophet and eventually the king. He said that we know this to be the additions identified as the Priestly Source sections of the Torah. And if you analyze those additions, they do indeed establish the very existence and authority of the Temple priesthood, as well as the 603 laws and observances of the "Law of Moses" beyond the Decalogue... much of which has to do with Priestly operation and observance in the Temple. If you look at the instances of confusion in the Torah, you will find that it regularly involves the later and anonymous additions of the Priestly Source. Remove the additions, and God's Word suddenly becomes crystal clear including to which mountain Moses led the Israelites. Upon closer inspection, every addition from the Priestly Source can be linked to establishing some aspect of Priestly function and/or authority... look closely at the "Covenant" made with Abram, which involves a name change and circumcision of males. This second account is an anonymous addition made to the anchient text by the authors of the Priestly Source. This means that this Covenant, inserted under the authority of not only Moses.but Yahweh himself, was a fabrication added to serve the purposes of the authors of the Priestly Source, some 1000 years later, in the first and second centuries BCE. No wonder the Ebionites pulled away from associating mainstream Judaism. However, there is more... where is there another place where there is great confusion? Perhaps it can be predicted,if we keep in mind the depredations of the Priestly Soure, if something doesn't quickly come to mind. Where do we find occasions, like the Torah, where there are manifestations of Yahweh's authority? The Book of the Written Prophets records the very words of the servant prophets of Yahweh spoken in his name. Is there confusion there? You bet... serious confusion. Check out the addition made to the words of Amos, the first of the written Prophets to minister to the House of Jacob. His words are very clear till the 5 verses clealy added at the end of his work...words which completely negate the message of the first nine chapters of the book. Which is the truth? The next prophet to minister in time was Hosea... there, the confusion wrecked by the additions begins I'm the first several verses where the judgement of the House of Jacob is completely reversed in the next sentences. So which is true? The answer to that question is important in the extreme, as billions have placed their lives on the additions being the authentic words of Yahweh found as additions placed under the authority of words spoken in his name by trusted Prophets. If the authors of the Priestly Source made anonymous retroactve additions to the Torah, is it possible that they did not stop there? If Yahweh completely abandoned the House of Jacob and refused to speak to or look after them again for breaking the Sinai Covenant, as is found inthe words of all six pre-exilic prophets; Amos, Hosea, Micah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, and Jeremiah, then the priesthood would have an immense problem... what good is a Temple, priesthood and Law without the sanction of the God they represented? If fraudulent additions could be made to the Torah by these Priestly authors, why not the words of the Written Prophets. As before, remove the words obviously added to the authentic words Yahweh spoke through his servants, and all confusion as to what Yahweh said and has done since... simply vanishes. Our problem in the past is that we have trusted that the whole Word of God is actually his and that has made us vulnerable to those in the past generations, like the authors of the Priestly Source, who would manipulate God's Word to meet theirown needs. Thank God for the ability of modern critical biblical scholarship to illuminate these kinds of additions! It only remains for us to, "make like the Ebiontes!" and distance ourselves from the these of these additions. What do you percieve and think?
"All Israel shall be saved" is in reference to "the Israel of God" which is the elect regardless of race. So it refers to elect Gentiles and elect Israelites who all together form "the Israel of God".
Peter addressed his letter to the 12 tribes. The churches Paul wrote to and visited were Israelites. Europe is Israel. Rome and Britton are pre-Torah Judah and exilic Israel. UK is the united kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
Receiving "spirit" might be either the Holy Spirit or the adversary spirit, might it? Choose your grail filler wisely, lest your Ark be leaky as a sieve, and have no direction but toward the beast abyss
Been recently curious as to Joseph and his Gentile wife leading to the two half tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim. As Israel camped around the tabernacle the tribe of Judah and Ephraim would camp opposite each other.
Isaiah 49.6 “I am HaShem, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations. . ." He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth." וַיֹּאמֶר נָקֵל מִהְיוֹתְךָ לִי עֶבֶד לְהָקִים אֶת־שִׁבְטֵי יַעֲקֹב וּנְצוּרֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לְהָשִׁיב וּנְתַתִּיךָ לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם לִהְיוֹת יְשׁוּעָתִי עַד־קְצֵה הָאָרֶץ׃
Do you think it possible an Ur-Revelation (Rev 21:12) retained the original idea in Hosea that the original twelve scattered tribes will be reconstituted, involving only an ethnic tribal relationship? And that this was the view mainly held by the Jerusalem church of James? And this explains the diverging of the Way between Paul and James? This reminds me of the way Paul may have broadened 4Macc 17:21-22 to make the martyrdom of Jesus a ransom for the sin of all nations. But James, and the Jerusalem church, and an Ur-Revelation may have mainly held to the original view of 4Macc 17:21-22 that Jesus' martyrdom was a ransom for the sin of the Jewish nation only. And this too represented a parting of the Way between James and Paul? Of course James and the Jerusalem church would have continued to believe in conversions to Judaism -- again diverging from Paul in this respect. Paul was interested in conversions to his Gospel.
Thank you Dr. Tabor for make me aware of Jason Stables. However it would have been very helpful (in my opinion) for the flow of Jason's speech if you had not interrupted it many times with your often not necessary remarks. I found that quite distracting and even disturbing. For the rest, may God bless you all.
Honestly, it is a red flag to me to tell me to be careful how I comment so as to not offend believers, when I really believe that the "Lo Ami" midrash Paul uses is indeed contradictory and you can't really whitewash the supercessionism. This contradiction is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. "Shut up, Moonpearl" is what I heard.
It makes sense. But, you also forget that a gentile converted to Judaism was considered a Jew. In Acts 21:25 we see the council tell Paul the Gentiles need to be circumcized, follow 4 key areas of Torah [covers about 2/3 of the applicable 613 Commandments] as is evidenced in Acts 15:20 despite the white washing. To add to the fun, Talmud captured debate between Hillel and Gamaliel asking when is a convert considered to be saved/converted. Hillel holds that one must be circumcised & baptized [mikveh immersion] where as Gamaliel holds that if first immersed then circumsision doesn't matter and that they should shave their head as an outward expression of it. Given that Christianity, as we know it, didn't start till after 300AD, and Christ focused almost exclusively on Jews baptism for conversation would have been the norm. - I'll share the paper when I get a chance.
Reading the OT, and judging the number of false charges against Jesus multiplying over time - they are worse than when God called them His enemies way back when. So who thinks Paul was right? Not me.
Acts 2 records the inauguration of the reNEWed Covenant (Jer. 31:31-33) having been ratified by the blood of the Messiah with the Ruach HaKodesh writing it's TERMS (i.e. Torah) on the "fleshly tablet's" of the Talmadim's/Disciples' hearts.
Jeremiah 31 is a Covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, not with Gentiles. It will also happen in the future, when everyone knows God. Today we have billions of atheists and agnostics.
Bless you guys, but I had to laugh when you said that this is new, 😂 orthodoxy ie Ethiopian, Greek, Russian, etc… has held, what is inaccurately described as replacement theology from their beginning.
@@leepretorius4869 The Apostle Paul certainly did not think Israel and Jew were identical. The Apostle Paul may have used Jew and Israel interchangeably in some passages. I suspect sometimes he uses Israel in the context of the covenants, but he uses Jew in the context of unbelief or in conflict between Jewish and Gentile Christians. This is just an impression and not the result of a study. The Apostle Paul would have been knowledgeable about what each word referred to, but he either addresses his audience as Israel for some purposes, and then he addresses the same audience as Jews for other purposes. The Apostle Paul would have known that the term "Jew" was first used during the destruction of the first Temple (2 Kings 25) and during the Babylonian exile. If he wanted to refer to the people of the Mosaic/Sinaic Coventent he probably thought of them as Israel. It might help to think of Abraham's descendants as the Hebrews; Jacobs dependents as Israel, Israel after the destruction of the first temple as Jews, and the Christians made up of both Gentile and Jew again as Israel. The Apostle Paul recorded that "all Israel will be saved" rather than "all Jews will be saved." A distinction must be made by Bible students between when the name "Israel" is associated with a race or nation rather than used to refer to spiritual Israel who are the faithful from both the Gentiles and Jews.
Jesus pointed to the old law covenant being no more and fleshly Israel as a nation losing God's favor. Matt. 21:33-44, Matt 23:33-39, Luke 20:9-19. Paul, who said he received direct revelation from the Christ pointed to the Israel of God being made up of spirit-anointed natural descendants of Israel and spirit-anointed people of the nations. They will be anointed by the Father. 2 Cor. 1:21, 22: "But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment." (NAB) These individuals will have nothing to do with false teachings like the trinity or modalism. As neither Christ nor the apostles taught such things.
Need to distinguish between Written Torah and Oral Torah. (I think that's what Sha'ul/Paul is referring to when he talks about "rightly dividing the word of truth")
Thanks for this. Three categories, maybe four should be considered. Jews originally descended from Judah occupying the kingdom of Judah area, together with some other Israelites; Levites were a separate group as only Levites could become priests in the Temple. The juxtaposition between the two explains some of conflicts in the NT. Then after the Hasmonean reconquest many of the other tribes in the diaspora returned and settled in tribal areas in the north. Jesus visited the cities that were previously capitals of some of these. They were communications centers with the tribes abroad. Both Josephus and Philo insist that the descendants of Israel constituted the greatest population on earth, inhabiting 'every country and island.' A large diaspora of Israel that had been transported by Assyria now became a powerful governmental force in Parthia (Junianus Justinius's history) Acts 2:9ff. The descendants of Israel consisted of two groups; circumcised and uncircumcised. Was Paul's mission as a Benjamite to the uncircumcised Israelites primarily as well to uncircumcised gentiles? For those who wished to enter the Temple Court of Israel, only the pure genealogical Israelites who were circumcised could enter, Luke 24:53.
Israel was destroyed as a nation. The Hebrew Matthew has Jesus saying the kingdom was torn from Israel, they would be destroyed (40 days of Jonah - 40 years to destruction of Temple) and the kingdom given to those who would give the fruits due to Elohim by His people. (keeping Covenant with Him) Isaiah 42 says Israel will be burned and they would not even know why. How does this not fit Psalm 2? Paul was a liar, he could not be a true prophet of God.
It's all about Israel. Not random joe blow pagans. The "not my people" were the Israelites who were cast out into the nations. It's the same concept. The scattering and regathering promise.
Not agreeing with the apostle Paul does not mean he made things up. He was very much a Pharisee of the school of Gamaliel and influenced by the first century Jewish culture. If one desires to contradict the New Testament writings by the apostle Paul, one must attack divine inspiration of the texts in the Bible written by him. In other words, are there passages in the New Testament attributed to the apostle Paul that are not divinely inspired?
Sorry I am struggling to see how this is at all revolutionary. The concept of “Israel” has always been a political construct. Sure Israel was originally a family, the sons of Jacob who was renamed Israel. But, by the time of the exodus Israel was a people, made up of a mixed multitude. It was this mixed multitude that was the covenant party to the treaty with YHWH at Sinai. That political body split in two, Israel the northern kingdom and Judah the southern kingdom. The southern kingdom was divorced and swallowed up by the nations. She ceased to exist as a nation, a kingdom, a political entity. Judah was separated and exiled but maintained some kind of existence as an exiled nation. She was preserved in her dead state for 70 years of exile. And then she was restored to the land under the medo-Persians and was reconstituted as a political nation state with her governor, government, temple and priesthood, in the seven “sevens” of Dan. 9:25. This political entity was the survivor of the extremely long period of the 62 “sevens”, under the medo-Persians and then the Greeks until Israel resisted and expelled Antiochus 4 and became independent for nearly 100 years. Then under Roman overlords for another more than 100 years. This is still the 62 “sevens” until The Rebellion of 66 CE. But this political entity Israel was the Old Creation, not the New Creation, not the Kingdom of God. And in the 70th “seven” she would be taken over by a rebel government and the rebel government would set up another Abomination of Desolation and stop the regular sacrifices in the Second Temple for “half seven” before that Old Creation, that restored Second Temple Israel would be completely shattered in the war to the end. Desolations are decreed, not averted like the last time under Antiochus 4. At that point Israel would be recreated as a New Political Entity, in which the “everlasting righteousness” of Dan. 9:24 would be attained. At that time would Second Temple Israel be destroyed as the Fourth Beast, by the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds, per Dan. 7 to destroy the new “little horn” that isn’t Antiochus 4. At that time the old Israel is shattered as the feet of iron and clay of Dan. 2. The new political entity that inherits the kingdom of God is the invisible kingdom, made without hands, per Dan. 2. At that time the wise and evangelists would awake from the dust of the old Israel and this time they would shine like the stars and have the eternal life of the everlasting kingdom. At that time would another group arise from the old Israel as the little horn of the Fourth Beast, as “the people of the prince who is to come” and destroy old Israel and the temple. These would awake to shame and everlasting contempt, Dan. 12, when “the power of the holy people has been completely shattered”. Thus the Israel concept has always been a political entity, and as Paul taught that old entity would not inherit the kingdom of God, the flesh and blood Israel of the old body. Rather, the old body would be sown into the ground and die, and from her corpse would rise a new body, which was not the old body. The new body is the transformed body. The dead ones of the old body would rise not in the old body of Israel, but in the new Israel, the spiritual body, the same body in which the living were already raised in. Both the living and the dead would need to be “changed” to be subsumed into the one resurrection body. Paul’s teaching in Rom. 9-11 are about the true nature of “Israel” which was always a political entity. The entity would change as the kingdom changed from the old to the new. The old Israel was the clay, made up of vessels made for dishonour and vessels made for honour. The vessels made for dishonour would be the vessels of wrath, which God was bearing with much patience, before they would be smashed as the feet or iron and clay in 66-70CE. The vessels of honour were filled with the spirit and would be gathered into the new house of the new marriage for the wedding day. That new house is the New Israel, the true Israel, into which the dead of Old Israel would also be gathered along with the gentiles so that God would be “all in all”
Paul doesn’t innovate or redefine Israel. Paul insisted he taught nothing other than was Moses and the prophets said would happen. If you can’t find what Paul is saying from the Old Testament you’ve probably not read him correctly. Israel has never ever been a genetic or blood entity or defined by blood, she has always been a political construct, a political creation of her maker YHWH, composed of a mixed multitude.
This is just an odd thought. Israel is not about genealogy or DNA. G-d has placed "Israelites" in every kindred, tongue, and people. For these, an "apokalupto" occurs, uncovering things already known. These Israelites might be eunuchs, not castrated males assigned to some harem, but not married to the right king or God. These Israelites have unique talents and are placed into the cultures and peoples of China, Saudi Arabia, or the mountains of Peru. We want to limit deity when all of us are made in His image.
You seemed to be saying that Gentiles who come to faith in the Messiah make up 'Israel' along with Jewish believers in the Messiah. Well yes, because Gentiles are being grafted into the Vine. However, Paul seems to contrast 'Israel' with Gentiles, hence the question in the title of this video. Paul contrasted the hardening of 'Israel' during the time of the Gentiles, ie the last 2000 years. So Gentiles cannot be included in that sense of 'Israel' if the two are being contrasted. I dont think you actually dealt with this? But perhaps your book does. And Paul does teach very clearly that people, Jew, Israeli or Gentile, are saved by grace through faith (in Jesus). He also clearly said that Jesus died for him. There was a purpose in His death which affected Paul's standing with God. That is profound. So you cant simply dismiss such foundational teachings of Paul like that. But what he does say is that faith will always show in obedience. That is why our 'works' will be judged because good works are the outworking of faith. So per James, without works your faith is dead/meaningless. Paul would heartily agree. God have mercy on us all!
There is a time coming when "The Nations" or gentile Christians will become Israelites. . The Tribe of Ephraim. . If the Apostles sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes then who will sit on a throne judging Ephraim? . Jesus Christ partially answers this question when he quotes the Messianic Psalm 2 about someone other than himself: . Revelation 2:26-27 And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS 27 and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, the same as I have received from my Father . . There will be a king of the Nations! The Tribe of Ephraim! Gentile Christians! . Read Psalm 2. . .
Psalm 2 isn't messianic in the way you think, it only looks that way because Christian translators play with the capitalization. There is no difference between lord and Lord in Hebrew. Psalm 2 is about Solomon. Check out the context of 1 Chronicles 22:7-10. Also 2 Samuel 7:14 depicts the same scene, and God says, "I will be his father, and he will be my son, when he does wrong I will discipline him." Even fundamentalists don't claim that's talking about Jesus doing something wrong in God's eyes.
@@sparrowthesissy2186 ---- Psalm 2 is about the king of The Nations (Gentiles not Jews). . Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your own possession. . .
@@isaiah30v8 This Davidic psalm, about the son of David, uses hyperbole like in many places related to those two. David's kingdom is repeatedly promised by God to last forever, and it didn't last 500 years. There are a lot of excuses made for that, but like a lot of that Davidic stuff, people tried to pretend it could still be true somehow some day. The Psalms all around it, and the stories I cited of God talking about Solomon as his son, make the original context pretty clear, though. Don't get tricked by the capitalization in it, honestly. Look at David's song in 2 Sam. I think it is. It's so exaggerated it sounds like the end of the world, but what he's talking about there is just some early Iron Age battle. That was how they wrote poetry back then.
Not 100% sure I followed the idea. Kinda sounds like a nation dealing with population collapse addressing the problem through mass immigration. Guess I need to read the book. But wouldn’t Paul, if he thought this was the fulfillment of that previously promised “new covenant”, wouldn’t he then also believe that these new members of Israel as the restored tribes fall fully under the authority of the Torah? How does he disconnect these two?
Israel = Gentiles (romans) , gentile = nobles = warriors* Jacob = Priests ( judahites = jews ) * whole Israel will be saved through a remnant (claudians = chosen = saints)
You are right. but OT story is just blueprint for us to understand Gods plan of salvation.. What man dont understand or dont want to accept that God is not dealing locally . God operate globally. So when all went in the wrong direction,when man was ONE,and started to build city for themself,make name for themself,and by themself to go to God,God came down and scattered man over the whole earth,and confuse language.. Than pulled one man out /Abraham,and started to rebuild .. So the whole world is IL ...But those who will be Jews are priests..Those who seek God,seek wisdom of God,not man,knowledge of God,not man...Sons of God,priests in order of Melchizedek that will be reviled,and they will bring all to God.. Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. Rom 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Bondage of corruption .. I can tell you one.. People that think there are prophecies to be fulfilled,not see all finished and at hand.. Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? Bondage is: Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
You are right. but OT story is just blueprint for us to understand Gods plan of salvation.. What man dont understand or dont want to accept that God is not dealing locally . God operate globally. So when all went in the wrong direction,when man was ONE,and started to build city for themself,make name for themself,and by themself to go to God,God came down and scattered man over the whole earth,and confuse language.. Than pulled one man out /Abraham,and started to rebuild .. So the whole world is IL ...But those who will be Jews are priests..Those who seek God,seek wisdom of God,not man,knowledge of God,not man...Sons of God,priests in order of Melchizedek that will be reviled,and they will bring all to God.. Rom 8 :19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. Rom 8 :21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Bondage of corruption .. I can tell you one.. People that think there are prophecies to be fulfilled,not see all finished and at hand.. Gal 4 :3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. Gal 4 :9........ how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? Bondage is: Gal 4 :10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
House of Israel and House of Judah have not yet been recombined. Israel is headed up by Ephraim. Judah contains only Judah, Benjamin, and their portion of Levi.
The words "Hebrew," "Israel," and "Jew" each have different nuances and historical references. No covenant promises were made to the Jews. Even though Abraham was a Hebrew and not an Israelite, the promise made to Abraham was carried forward in Jacob whom the Lord named Israel. Only the children of Jacob/Israel were heirs of the covenant. The covenant did not include every child of the Hebrew Abraham or of the Hebrew Issac. A wonderful and inspiring 119 page book written in 1922 by Philip Mauro follows the linage of the covenant people. The Wonders of Bible Chronology.
It certainly seems that if Paul is claiming that Jer 16 is about "transubstantiation" of gentiles into Israelites, it seems a that the LORD over-promised and under-delivered: [Jer 16:10-19 KJV] [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what [is] our iniquity? or what [is] our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; [12] And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me: [13] Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, [neither] ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour. [14] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [15] But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. [16] Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. [17] For mine eyes [are] upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. [18] And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable things. [19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
Justice ideally is full restoration. Full restoration in many instances is impossible - as in murder. Practical justice is vengeance and punishment which is not a just outcome for the victim. Believers should think of justice in making restitution, when possible, as benefiting the present and future, and in protecting the victim and society. Injustices may be stopped. Injustices may be avoided. Restoring justice always means fixing something that will always show the marks of being repaired.
@@glenbsmith1863 So then, justice is not practical for the followers? I can see how to practice it on myself in the repentance ritual. Most can barely confess sins. Sit in judgment on yourself only.
@@goneprivate2714 Maybe we should define justice, legal justice, and divine justice. My comment was about legal justice. What do you mean by practical justice?
@@glenbsmith1863 Thanks for the clarification. Since this is bible talk, I was wondering how we could implement this justice concept into a doing the Word project as James recommends. Doing justice in our self, not just preaching to folks.
Im quite surprised that this is new within scholarship. This is the view of pretty much the entire gentile messianic torah observant community. Yeshua spoke of two flocks and the other (not the yehudi flock to whome he was speaking at the time) must come two. I even think the two witnesses in revelation are the two olive trees/two kingdoms. The work of gathering in which was started by Messiah Yeshua has been ongoing. Amazing times in which we live is that ephraim is awakening to his identity. As stated in Romans 11 the uncultivated olive branch is grafted into the houshold of Israel. Replacement theology has obscured this fact and funnily enough is warned against in Romans 11 too.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
@@glenbsmith1863 I dont believe supercessionism (or replacement theology) is what is being communicated here in this discussion. Its more the re formation of the whole house of Israel by the regathering of the dispersed ones into the body which already constitutes the faithfull remnant of the house of Judah (which is inclusive of Bejamin and Levi). The novel idea which Paul talks about in Romans 11 is the fulfillment of prophecy of the regathering of the lost tribes is being fulfilled by the gentiles (outwardly) who are being grafted in to the household of Israel. The question is however whether Yeshua when he sent his disciples out, and instructing them to not to go the way of the Gentiles or Samaritans but to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This seems to suggest they knew where they were. Is this the same group?.... If not it must be the great commision at the end of Mathew which is in congruence with the intention to gather in the gentiles of which Paul was focused?!
@@pgson8929 I agree with your post. But doesn't the Apostle Paul use Jew, Israel, faithful remnant, household of Israel, house of Israel, house of Judah somewhat indiscriminately? Isn't "the regathering of the lost tribes" being fulfilled by the gentiles (outwardly) who are being grafted into the household of Israel to make up those of the new covenant who are neither Jew or Gentile? About Supercessionism? The Apostle Paul affirms there are faithful Israelites already in the household of Israel like himself and others. The term "Replacement theology" includes the idea that Christian gentiles replaced Israel. While Gentiles are grafted into the vine, they are not replacing Israelities. The vine is Yeshua rather than Israel. The idea of Supercessionism is that the Body of Christ includes all the redeemed from Israel and the Gentiles. Another term for the Body of Christ is the Church or "those called from the world." About the "ten lost tribes." There were people from the ten northern tribes who immigrated into Judah beginning when Israel split by following King Jeroboam, and others immigrated over time into the south to worship at the temple. The idea that "Ten Tribes" were "lost" is a mistaken notion. Maybe most of the people of the ten northern tribes were carried into exile, but not all. The tribe of Simeon occupied land south of Judah and there were people of the tribe of Dan that remained in the land they first occupied between Benjiam and the Philistines other than in Transjordan. Also, there are "Jews" alive today whose surnames are that of the ten northern tribes. I know Jews whose surnames are Ruben, Dan, Asher, and Zebulum. Also, there is the 13th tribe, Levi and the name Choen used by some who are descendants from the Levi Aaron. In the New Testament and in history, the Samaritans included descendants of the ten northern tribes. Just as vernacular language today exaggerates (hyperbole), so did the ancients, especially the Hebrews recording the biblical texts. Such terms as “all” and “forever and ever” are hyperbole. Therefore, Bible students should not assume "all" the blood descendants of the ten northern tribes have ever been "lost" or were deported by the Assyrians.
For those who choose no child mind will enter into the gates of the Heavenly mind 369 Heavenly Time Cosmos there is no war in the new age Consciousness power 3 sets all prisoners captives free from all the chains that bind us
Welcome to reality! We are called heretics by all, but הקדוש ברוך הוא calls us beloved! The Torah is immutable! And Yeshua is our promised King of Righteousness, to the glory of the singular (not triune) G-d!
God calls you heretics, because God says to keep his law but you reject it. There is also no Yeshua in the Greek Nt and God says he will judge everyone by his deeds. So the human sacrifice is useless and even forbidden
I'm curious, what are your thoughts about Jesus as they relate to David? Do you think the old prophecies are mostly about the restoration of the monarchy, or do you go by the more gentile Christian interpretation that the Davidic part isn't really literal or doesn't really matter because the Kingdom is a more abstract thing, not a specific government in Jerusalem the mashiach/christou was supposed to form?
Paul did not say..."All Israel will be saved." Romans Chapter 11: In its New Covenant context... There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the New Covenant Church in this passage. Plan A is found in verses 23 and 24. In Romans 1:16 Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews. This time period can be found in Matt. 10:5-7, and Acts 10:36-38, and Gal. 1:14-18. Many try to claim God never gave the Jews a chance to accept Christ, so there must be some Plan B of salvation before or during the Second Coming of Christ. Romans 1:16 proves they are wrong, since Paul said the Gospel went "first" to the Jews. Many ignore the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", and as "men of Israel", and as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. The Gentiles were not grafted in until several years later. This passage proves Paul was right about the Gospel being taken "first" to the Jews. Were all of the Israelites "partially" hardened in Romans 11, or were part hardened and another part were not hardened? The answer is found in the "remnant" of Romans 11:5. Paul reveals two different groups of Israelites in Romans 9:6-8. There is an Israel of the promise, and an Israel of the flesh. This is part of the context of Romans 11. Paul speaks about the "remnant" of Israel in Romans 9:27. This is also part of the context of Romans 11. Paul starts Romans 11 with two different groups of Israelites. In verse one Paul reveals he is still an Israelite, even after his conversion. Then Paul refers to two different groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah. There were the Baal worshippers, and there was the faithful "remnant". In verse five Paul says there is also a faithful "remnant" of Israelites during his time. This must be the Israelites who have accepted Christ, as on the Day of Pentecost. Paul uses the two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles grafted together into the same tree. The unbelieving Israelites have been broken off but can be grafted back in through faith in Christ in verses 23-24. Verse 26 is the problem for many modern Christians. What does the verse actually say, and how is it changed by many in the modern Church. I have heard two of our nations famous preachers say the following. "And then all Israel will be saved..." I have heard another say the following. "And all Israel will be saved..." What does God's Word, recorded by the Apostle Paul actually say? Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: The English word "so" is translated from the Greek word "houto", which is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing. Some have changed the word from "so" to "then", in order to change the meaning of the verse. How will all of the "remnant" of Israel from Romans 9:27 be saved? The answer is found in the verses that precede verse 26 and are found below. Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? Paul quoted from the OT in referring to the Deliverer coming out of Sion to pay for sin. Did this happen at Calvary, or will Jesus die again for His people in the future? Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Verse 28 can only be understood by looking at how Paul started the passage. He started with two different groups of Israelites and he ends the passage in the same way. There are two different groups of "they" in verse 28. One group of "they" reject Christ and are the enemies of God, and another group of "they" are the election which accept Christ through hearing the Gospel and faith. Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Based on Luke 21:24b-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the Second Coming of Christ. This agrees with what Paul said in Romans 1:16 about the Gospel going “first” to the Jews.
Chaos - God calls Abram - Abraham - Issac-Jacob (Israel) - 12 sons/12 tribes (children of Israel) - Judah - Jesus Christ (Messiah) the seed of promise. If you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed. Gods master plan
In the Jewish view there are 3 groups of men - Gentiles (nations), Noahides (lawful gentiles), and Jews (Torah). In Paul's view there is now a new 4th group - followers of Jesus (Kingdom) which is populated by the previous 3 groups. This 4th group is the Kingdom of Jesus (i.e. the Name) and is much better than the 3 previous groups because each citizen of that kingdom is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Opinions seemed to be tainted by the viewpoint that Judaism sits on top of the heap, but in reality, the laws that governed Adam/Noah are the superset and the Judaic/Torah laws are just a subset of those previous laws. All (souls) were in Adam, and all souls that believe in the Name are therefore redeemed, the rest of the souls that haven't believed are recycled via reincarnation. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Matthew 12:21 “And in His name the Gentiles will hope.”
@@glenbsmith1863 Look up Efraim Palvanov, he explains a lot in his reincarnation series. Job 33:29-30 "“Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit, that he may be lighted with the light of life."
@@glenbsmith1863 Job33 : 29, 30 - “Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit, that he may be lighted with the light of life."
@@ezekielsaltar4728 Thank you. There are always more to comprehend for Bible students. Seems Bible students could read this as if Elihu believed in some form of reincarnation or repeated incarnations. These verses are in Elihu’s rebuke of Job. Elihu is making the point that God acts and speaks in many different ways.
Four Interpretations. (1) These verses are in the Bible, so they are divinely inspired TRUTH. (2) Elihu was divinely inspired and spoke the TRUTH. (3) These verses just expressed the beliefs held by Elihu. Therefore, not all that was recorded as the beliefs of Elihu should be considered by Bible students as being divinely inspired. (4) Elihu did not mean this about an individual man happening again and again, but he described what God did for each man. Therefore, it was the act of God that was again and again, but each time with a different man.
Very interesting, thanks so much. I speak 5 languages, have studied ancient religious/philosophical texts for 32 years and always understood that each scholar think and translate according to their "laziness". This is the disease in academia. Most copy each other, how can this be a surprise for so many centuries. When studying Asian religions it's OBVIOUS where the source of most ideas and words came from. Like Spinoza (obviously a Buddhist influence) scholars still can't admit their ideas originate from Asia (in Avestan, Pali, Sanskrit or Prakit and ancient Chinese languages). In Mandarin they still use the story of Paradise for the symbol of Fu, a garden, a man and a woman with God. We could save a lot of time if you would study Asian languages. Start with Abraham - Brahma married to Sarah - Sarasvitta, Satan - Satana, etc, etc... It's all from the same origin.
Is = Isfet = Isis = Lilith, Ra = Son = Lucifer, El is godhood, which can only come through anointment of El Elyon, God the most high and his favorite brain child, Karma aka the Holy Spirit. It's not any particular species, tribes, or people that originated on the chosen planet, but the shortest statement you could make of the Christ promise without carrying too much baggage away from Egypt, following Moses to a new land - leaving the corrupters of narcissistic Akhnaten behind. The name would have been healthier if they called themselves KaRaMEl, perhaps?
It's funny how many dogmatic fools don't know squat about El Elyon and the Divine Council, despite it being the most important information in the much-mistranslated Torah.
🔥 Paul meant the opposite of what Jesus taught (as he often does). " *ALL* Israel" ??? Jesus says: Matt.7 [13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. [14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. _"For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.' "_ (Romans 10:13) vs _“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."_ (Matthew 7:21)
@@kevan7978 Read it for yourself. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.“” (2 Corinthians 5:10) Vs "“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24) ****************** *On the sum of the commandments* Paul says: Rom.13 [9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus says: Matt.22 [37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38] This is the great and first commandment. [39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [40] On these *TWO COMMANDMENTS* depend all the law and the prophets. ****************** *On whom God has mercy* Paul says: Rom.9 [15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." [16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy. [18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills. Jesus says: Matt.5 [7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. ****************** *On forgiveness of trespasses* Paul says: Eph.1 [7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace Rom.4 [25] who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification. Jesus says: Matt.6 [14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; [15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. ****************** *On what is honorable among men* Paul says: 2Cor.8 [21] for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men. Rom.12 [17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men. Rom.14 [18] he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 1Cor.10 [33] just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. Jesus says: Luke.16 [15] But he said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. Luke.6 [26] Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets. ****************** *On the commandments and eternal life* Paul says: Rom.7 [9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died; [10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me. Jesus says: Matt.19 [17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments. ****************** *On your father* Paul says: 1Cor.4 [15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Phlm.1 [10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment. Jesus says: Matt.23 [9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. ****************** *On the destiny of the creation (heavens and earth)* Paul says: Rom.8 [21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. Jesus says: Matt.24 [35] Heaven and earth will pass away, ****************** *On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets* Paul says: Rom.10 [4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified. Jesus says: Matt.5 [17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. [18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. ****************** *On the number and identity of teachers* Paul says: 1Cor.12 [28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers, Eph.4 [11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 1Tim.2 [7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 2Tim.1 [11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, Jesus says: Matt.23 [8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. ****************** *On the number to be saved* Paul says: Rom.11 [25] Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, [26] and so ALL Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob. Jesus says: Matt.7 [13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. [14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW. ****************** *On remuneration for preaching the gospel* Paul says: 1Tim.5 [17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; [18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages. 1Cor.9 [11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits? [12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more? Jesus says: Matt.10 [7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' [8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay. ******************
@@willempasterkamp862 Paul: _“For he (God) will repay according to each one’s deeds; to those who by patiently DOING GOOD seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life”_ (Romans 2:6) _so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in EVERY GOOD WORK, growing in the knowledge of God,_ (Colossians 1:10) _Let us not become weary IN DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up._ (Galatians 6:9) I can find verses where Paul says no one is doing good and that only goes to prove that Paul contradicts himself. Are you trying to say that you are too lazy to read the nonsense that Paul wrote or that you are too busy watching TV and eating Doritos?
@@leom6343 Sweetie, _every single religion_ that exists today, and every religion that once existed and vanished subsequently, was once at the stage of "being not even 80 years old"
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I can explain it, but the wise. And prudent probably won't understand. We're surrounded by a cloud of witnesses and you've entertained angels unaware. Rip, when capole was caught up to the third heaven, he saw things and heard things that he couldn't share. I've seen the same things and people don't believe in when I tell them. Hebrews 11:39,40. How is it that they without us should not be made perfect. How is it Jeremiah said God would recompense the sins of those of that days' fathers, into the bellies of their children, and punish them all together? Because you were your fathers. You were in the desert with Moses. The sporot of the beast, natural man go.back to the. Earth and the sport of man fo back to God who gave it. Solomon said there is no remembering those things before you and you won't know whom you'll be in the future. It helps to k own the Biblical cosmology is true too. Prove all things and hold to that which is good. Freemason s at NASA worship Licifer/Satan. How.much truth you really think they have revealed to.you? Paul said we are to know no man after the flesh but after the spirit. Not even Jesus. How do you do that? Elijah when he appears again in thensame.way, born of woman, turns the hearts of the children to the fathers and fathers to the children. What's that? Just what Jesus did when asked if Elijah was supposed to come first before him. He did come, but he didn't know who hwnwas and they cut off his head. Did the Samaritan woman really have 5 husband's in that lifetime amd another man she wasn't married too? Jesus was slapped from behind while being brutalized, " prophecy who hit you" they said. He knew ew people by the spirit just like I do.
@@michaelsmith9453 Jews are not just descendants of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Simeon, Dan, and Levi. Many people from the other ten tribes migrated to Judah after the kingdom was divided.
@@KravMagoo The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
@@willempasterkamp862 I'd suggest to disregard Paul's writings, but as it is in contemporary society, most would rather disregard reasonable requests from their own spouse, parents and grandparents than disregard the desires of a family dog which they purchased but never did need.
@@EmilyTodicescu so it wasn’t Jesus? The man who rebelled against the entire religion? The man who took a whip in his hand and single-handedly removed all the money changers from the temple? Jesus was a badass and he wouldn’t need to be crucified if he came back, he would kill himself when he saw what the Christian’s have did to his name. Jesus said the kingdom of god is Here Now, inside of you. Why are you waiting for it to come when it’s right in front of you?! Look into the nicene creed, read anything about Constantine, he exiled his own wife and children, Constantine created your Christianity to save Rome.
Thank you Dr. Tabor for your candor and openness. You are certainly appreciated! 😊
In my faith this was taught long before I was born. I'm glad you're also discovering it and your voice is reaching more people.
Love Jason Staples. Every single video and podcast featuring him is well worth watching and listening to. And get his writings!
Love Tabor content
Prof. Jason Staples is amazing! I will be looking him up across the net
"And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham." -- Mt 3:9
bien jouee
It's strange you don't add, but not all Israel are of Israel. Nor do you put two thirds of them shall be wiped out.
@user-qe1tv1bu2f Israel is a blood line. If someone is of the lineage of Israel, they are Israel.
@@chrishouseofdawid right, that's why dna testing is illegal in Israel I guess.
Reading 'Israel' as being the actual lost tribes, is what motivated me to read the entire Bible, for the first time in my life. I picked up this idea from watching 'Tomorrow's World' on t.v. and reading their booklets. After that I parted ways with them. It brings new light to the prophets and to a lot of the Old Testament passages, too. Also, Jesus said he was sent for 'the lost sheep of Israel'.
Paul means the Israelites who've rejected Jesus (Romans 11 etc.) - not the lost tribes in particular (who in any case in part returned already after Bablylonian captivity, if you compare 1 Chronicles 9 to 1 Kings 15 and 17)
Thanks gentlemen! Our group has been discussing this for 20+ years. I have been teaching and preaching that one has to understand "Who is Israel" for all these years. Batya Wooten wrote many books with this title. If one joins spiritual knowledge and academic knowledge sometimes we get amazing results 🎉
Great presentation!!! I first understood this in 2000. I look forward to more from Jason. Thank you James for having him on. And thanks for your insights also. You have known these thing also. Blessings!
Perhaps I've missed something, but has not the presumption of _Supercessionists_ always been that the Church is the "Israel" of which Paul writes in those passages? Since Supersessionism is such an old idea, what is so new about accepting that Paul's thinking that Gentiles who are "circumcised of the heart" really are the Israel of which Hosea prophesied?
Sounds like what he said towards the end is that Israel had been so assimilated in the nations through intermarriage that in order to bring Israel in again it would require bringing in all the nations so it would look like people who God once said was not his people would become his people. Maybe I misunderstood as well but that's what I concluded.
In practice, Christians tend to read Israel as meaning Christians when it says something good, and in the very next verse when it says something bad they interpret it as meaning modern Rabbinical Jews. Neither one is ever the original authorial intent.
@@sparrowthesissy2186Can you give an example of a chapter that says something good then bad about Israelites?
@exillens Hosea 2 is a pretty solid example. It's very common in the prophetic writings to have a bunch of wrath and fury against the people, followed by this sudden switch into mercy and compassion. It's basically portraying Yahweh's abusive relationship with his people. Hosea, overall, might be the most stark example of that, but sections of Jeremiah and Isaiah both come close.
@@exillens Deuteronomy 28 is also a classic example, but in a slightly different form. It's more in the "vassal contract" style where it pledges that if the contract is upheld, some good things will happen, and if the contract isn't upheld, then every imaginable bad thing will happen and the dominant nation (e.g. the lords) will unleash their armies against the rebellious villages.
Much of Deuteronomy is from the 700-600s BCE, late monarchy period, after the Assyrian invasion and just before the Babylonian invasion, so the authors are assuming that both the good and bad things have happened / will continue to happen in cycles, and this will be the rough explanation for those eras of good and bad luck, natural disasters and bounties, wars and peace treaties, and so on. It's in the same "abusive relationship" theme I mentioned earlier, but it's a little more clear in its underlying political and legal nature. Cynically, this is King Josiah's court (or maybe Hezekiah's) telling his people "follow my laws or the rain will stop and our nation will be overcome by the empires around us."
Dr. Tabor, I find this "new idea" of Jason Staples totally unconvincing. He correctly defined Jesus' gospel as announcing the imminent arrival of the restoration of the Israelite Kingdom and a restored Davidic monarchy. But that did not happen, and so Jesus' gospel was transformed into a message about the death and resurrection of the Messiah. Paul claimed that he was chosen to be the apostle to the gentiles. That presented a problem for Paul's ideology. What about the original gospel of Jesus and the restoration of the kingdom of Israel?
Paul apparently believed that God would miraculously restore all 12 tribes of Israel in the future, and so "all Israel will be saved". In the interim, Paul believed it was the opportunity for the gentiles to be saved. Paul does not say that the gentiles being saved are the "scattered tribes of Israel" which is what Jason appears to be saying. Paul specifically wrote that the gentiles, "a wild olive shoot", were being grafted into the place where the Israelite "branches" were broken off. Further, Paul wrote that Israel has been blinded until the "full number of gentiles" have come in. Paul does not say that the gentiles are the "scattered tribes of Israel" being restored.
Jason also misreads Hosea in the same way that Paul misquoted Hosea. In its context "Those who were not my people" is a reference to the Israelites not to gentiles as Paul believed. So, no. I think Jason's new ideas are not supported by the text. I would be surprised if my objections have not been echoed by other more learned men and women.
James 1:1 "to the lost children of the house of Israel, who have been scattered abroad, greetings"
This is the best. Can't get enough of Staples research.
Genesis 48:
5“And now, your two sons, Ephrayim and Menashsheh, who were born to you in the land of Mitsrayim before I came to you in Mitsrayim, are 🔸mine (Jacob/Israel) - as Re’uḇĕn and Shim‛on, they are mine.
6“Your offspring whom you shall bring forth after them are yours, and let them be called by the name of their brothers in their inheritance.
…
19bAnd yet, his younger brother is greater than he, and his seed is to become the 🔸completeness of the nations.”❣️❣️❣️
This is a fascinating discussion.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the argument, but it’s pretty common to refer to the Christian Church as “spiritual Israel”, at least in my experience among churches I’ve attended.
So I don’t understand why this is a surprising revelation. Not to take anything away from the work done.
More to the point :The Bible For Normal People podcast "the Afterlife"
The main point is that Jew and Israel are not identical and this has huge repercussions for exegesis and the texts under dispute.
Great conversation from two of our favorite scholars 😃
The Israel of God Paul always looked forward to is explained in 1 Corinthians 15: "50 Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
What he says afterwards does make for a good read.
At the 17:00 mark when y’all are discussing the insider/outsider use of “Jew” vs “Israelite” I think he’s hovering over the mark. My research has shown that the real trick / confusion is in the recent (1800’s fwd) adoption of the shorthand “Jew” within the context of a brand new language: English.
It was always rendered “judeans”. Like Americans. No one is under the presumption that it’s one people group and one code and one god etc. but when you switch up all the “judeans” to “Jew” references in all rockerfeller forward literature… th waters get muddied.
Of course outsiders referred to them as judeans. It’s only in the last 200 ish years it’s been conceptually linked with Judaism … but the term (as I’m sure Dr Tabor knows) is from the Yahudi. The region after the namesake of Yahudah or its phonetic ancient Hebraic/Aramaic equivalent… but the “Judeans” is how they always couched it, not the “Jews” and that little truncation in modern prints and publishings is making it tricky when all these other reasons are valid too, all pointing at the same thing: people be misunderstanding what they’re even reading. I take the tone that this is purposeful, but not exclusive to the religious texts, it spans all the industries.
Replace “Jew” with “judean” meaning rando Greek that was living in the region that happened to be named after Judah once the tribe known as Israel went splitsville 1000 years earlier and most of Judah has been killed or turned out on some asherah pole somewhere or scattered by the time any of this stuff was written down. The miracle is watching the most high bring it all back into his will and purpose during this season of learning.
We appreciate your perspective 👊🏽 and I’m gonna big Joshua Davis to get me a puppy and set up this dinner situation!
Enjoyed this conversation. I'm a little taken aback though as if this is some kind of new insight! But my Bible has always cross-referenced Hosea 1:9-10 with I Peter 2:10 and Romans 9:25-26. Of course these lost tribes called "Israel" were eventually going to be regathered under the Lordship of the Christ. Surely that's what's going on in Jerimiah's New Covenant too. Reuniting the divorced part of Israel with Judah. I've heard people discuss this Hosea passage over the years -- Steve Gregg in his Romans lectures raised the possibility that these Gentile Christian converts might actually contain a remnant of Hosea's lost ethnic Israelites of seven centuries prior to Christ. But I think he prefers a more spiritual approach to the passage. At any rate, I can appreciate a pretty literal approach -- how over such a long period of time and intermarrying, they would be practically indistinguishable from garden-variety Gentiles. God is in control - he reunites Israel and brings in the Gentiles at the same time.
Paul had a problem in that Isaiah said "All Israel will be saved", but looking around that wasn't what he was seeing. For the most part, they were not being saved. That's the backstory for Roman's 9-11. The explanation given is that God will always have a REMNANT, the true "tree" of Israel, with his believing people grafted in or cut off as required. It's about faith, not DNA. Thus Paul concludes "...and so [in this manner] all Israel will be saved". That's not an eschatological statement. That's how it was happening in Paul's day.
Dr. Tabor used to be employed by Ambassador College way back when. Wonder if he read those weird British-Israelite booklets :-) (Maybe that's why academic types generally seem to avoid the subject of the lost 10 tribes). But glad you guys talked about this today. You guys bolstered my confirmation bias.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
Yeah it’s inappropriately called replacement theology, and should be called grafted in theology, bless 💚😎❤️
@@AsterixDaBriton I like the grafted in analogy, but it implies the Old Covenant remains in force. Gentiles are not grafted into the Old Covenant but into Christ. Christ is the true vine.
Great video and interview! Will have to get Dr. Staples’ books. I have to say out of the NT, for me, obsession for what Jesus said is followed by my #2 obsession for Paul’s writings/travels. Paul wrote a lot of the NT so it’s easy to be interested in his writings. I love that Dr. Staples is tackling the justice stuff at the Paul Conference.
I love all your contents and teachings! Thanks a lot, James! Many blessings! Also to you Jason...so amazing!
Jim Staley - “Identity Crisis” - changed our understanding forever.
This isn’t that hard to understand despite decades of many Christians missing/ or ignoring it. Jason Staples’ work is absolutely amazing! He totally gets it!! Others like
Batya Wootten and Ephraim and Rimona Frank have been at this for a long time as well. Genesis 48, all 14 chapters of Hosea, the new covenant in Jeremiah, the two sticks of Ezekiel and many other prophets of God speak of this. It’s almost too easy yet many don’t see it, ignore it, or reject it.
Excellent, fantastic theory. Thank you👍
Nice haircut, Dr Tabor!🧙♂
Excited to give this a watch.
Belated comment, but great discussion. Any comment on the Max R. King, book, “Irrevocable” on Romans 9-11?
This comment section is terrifying. The human race is screwed.
Paul was hyper verbalizing while in a hyper mystical emotional state.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
Great dialogue.
Blah blah blah, info starts at 8:30, guest finally speaks at 11:54.
John 14:26, 14:6, 3:3-5, then repent of your sins,
Good thing the Gentiles are grafted in, filling in some spots !
Shalom
I have signed up for the New Insights conference, but won't catch it live as I'm on the other side of the world and will be asleep. Regarding Jason's theme, there's nothing new about the idea that salvation, according to Paul, means aligning to godly values and consenting to being transformed into a doer of justice, and that when Paul speaks of "salvation by faith" he is using "faith" in a kind of synecdochal sense, in that he is using one step of a process as a label to represent the entire process. This is how I understood Paul when I was Christian (Protestant), and a great many other Christians have understood Paul the same way. Anyone who denies this is either lying to you or hasn't been exposed to much diversity of Christian thought. However, I'm sure that Jason will add a few twists. Most Christians who hold to this interpretation would say that the bulk of this transformation takes place in the next life, not in this life. Does Jason agree? We will see.
Isaiah 9.14-15, describes Israel (summer) as the four constellation of Leo, Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio or roughly July, August, September, and October. Leo is the royal/noble one and this constellation has Jupiter ruled by the Sun. Thus making Jupiter as a sun god being the King of Israel.
One would hope that God wouldn't have been so frikkin' ambiguous. 🤣
The truth is, he wasn't... nor has he ever been. Please conier this: Dr. Tabor has spoken of the charges laid by the Ebionites that the priests had changed the Torah to create and secure for themselves a position of power.. where before it was the prophet and eventually the king. He said that we know this to be the additions identified as the Priestly Source sections of the Torah. And if you analyze those additions, they do indeed establish the very existence and authority of the Temple priesthood, as well as the 603 laws and observances of the "Law of Moses" beyond the Decalogue... much of which has to do with Priestly operation and observance in the Temple. If you look at the instances of confusion in the Torah, you will find that it regularly involves the later and anonymous additions of the Priestly Source. Remove the additions, and God's Word suddenly becomes crystal clear including to which mountain Moses led the Israelites. Upon closer inspection, every addition from the Priestly Source can be linked to establishing some aspect of Priestly function and/or authority... look closely at the "Covenant" made with Abram, which involves a name change and circumcision of males. This second account is an anonymous addition made to the anchient text by the authors of the Priestly Source. This means that this Covenant, inserted under the authority of not only Moses.but Yahweh himself, was a fabrication added to serve the purposes of the authors of the Priestly Source, some 1000 years later, in the first and second centuries BCE. No wonder the Ebionites pulled away from associating mainstream Judaism.
However, there is more... where is there another place where there is great confusion? Perhaps it can be predicted,if we keep in mind the depredations of the Priestly Soure, if something doesn't quickly come to mind.
Where do we find occasions, like the Torah, where there are manifestations of Yahweh's authority? The Book of the Written Prophets records the very words of the servant prophets of Yahweh spoken in his name. Is there confusion there? You bet... serious confusion. Check out the addition made to the words of Amos, the first of the written Prophets to minister to the House of Jacob. His words are very clear till the 5 verses clealy added at the end of his work...words which completely negate the message of the first nine chapters of the book. Which is the truth? The next prophet to minister in time was Hosea... there, the confusion wrecked by the additions begins I'm the first several verses where the judgement of the House of Jacob is completely reversed in the next sentences. So which is true? The answer to that question is important in the extreme, as billions have placed their lives on the additions being the authentic words of Yahweh found as additions placed under the authority of words spoken in his name by trusted Prophets.
If the authors of the Priestly Source made anonymous retroactve additions to the Torah, is it possible that they did not stop there? If Yahweh completely abandoned the House of Jacob and refused to speak to or look after them again for breaking the Sinai Covenant, as is found inthe words of all six pre-exilic prophets; Amos, Hosea, Micah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, and Jeremiah, then the priesthood would have an immense problem... what good is a Temple, priesthood and Law without the sanction of the God they represented? If fraudulent additions could be made to the Torah by these Priestly authors, why not the words of the Written Prophets. As before, remove the words obviously added to the authentic words Yahweh spoke through his servants, and all confusion as to what Yahweh said and has done since... simply vanishes.
Our problem in the past is that we have trusted that the whole Word of God is actually his and that has made us vulnerable to those in the past generations, like the authors of the Priestly Source, who would manipulate God's Word to meet theirown needs. Thank God for the ability of modern critical biblical scholarship to illuminate these kinds of additions! It only remains for us to, "make like the Ebiontes!" and distance ourselves from the these of these additions. What do you percieve and think?
"All Israel shall be saved" is in reference to "the Israel of God" which is the elect regardless of race. So it refers to elect Gentiles and elect Israelites who all together form "the Israel of God".
Peter addressed his letter to the 12 tribes. The churches Paul wrote to and visited were Israelites. Europe is Israel. Rome and Britton are pre-Torah Judah and exilic Israel. UK is the united kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
Receiving "spirit" might be either the Holy Spirit or the adversary spirit, might it? Choose your grail filler wisely, lest your Ark be leaky as a sieve, and have no direction but toward the beast abyss
The lost sheep of the House Israel are the 722 exilic tribes. "Lost" there is related to "divorced," i.e. fully loosed (lit. destroyed).
OK SOLD!
The two sentences that are on in Matthew and Mark are shown written on in Luke at the Last Supper event
Been recently curious as to Joseph and his Gentile wife leading to the two half tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim. As Israel camped around the tabernacle the tribe of Judah and Ephraim would camp opposite each other.
Isaiah 49.6
“I am HaShem, I have called You in righteousness,
I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,
And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the nations. . ."
He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations
So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth."
וַיֹּאמֶר נָקֵל מִהְיוֹתְךָ לִי עֶבֶד לְהָקִים אֶת־שִׁבְטֵי יַעֲקֹב וּנְצוּרֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לְהָשִׁיב וּנְתַתִּיךָ לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם לִהְיוֹת יְשׁוּעָתִי עַד־קְצֵה הָאָרֶץ׃
Do you think it possible an Ur-Revelation (Rev 21:12) retained the original idea in Hosea that the original twelve scattered tribes will be reconstituted, involving only an ethnic tribal relationship? And that this was the view mainly held by the Jerusalem church of James? And this explains the diverging of the Way between Paul and James? This reminds me of the way Paul may have broadened 4Macc 17:21-22 to make the martyrdom of Jesus a ransom for the sin of all nations. But James, and the Jerusalem church, and an Ur-Revelation may have mainly held to the original view of 4Macc 17:21-22 that Jesus' martyrdom was a ransom for the sin of the Jewish nation only. And this too represented a parting of the Way between James and Paul? Of course James and the Jerusalem church would have continued to believe in conversions to Judaism -- again diverging from Paul in this respect. Paul was interested in conversions to his Gospel.
Paul = the Just
wow!!
Thank you Dr. Tabor for make me aware of Jason Stables. However it would have been very helpful (in my opinion) for the flow of Jason's speech if you had not interrupted it many times with your often not necessary remarks. I found that quite distracting and even disturbing. For the rest, may God bless you all.
Honestly, it is a red flag to me to tell me to be careful how I comment so as to not offend believers, when I really believe that the "Lo Ami" midrash Paul uses is indeed contradictory and you can't really whitewash the supercessionism. This contradiction is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. "Shut up, Moonpearl" is what I heard.
It makes sense. But, you also forget that a gentile converted to Judaism was considered a Jew. In Acts 21:25 we see the council tell Paul the Gentiles need to be circumcized, follow 4 key areas of Torah [covers about 2/3 of the applicable 613 Commandments] as is evidenced in Acts 15:20 despite the white washing. To add to the fun, Talmud captured debate between Hillel and Gamaliel asking when is a convert considered to be saved/converted. Hillel holds that one must be circumcised & baptized [mikveh immersion] where as Gamaliel holds that if first immersed then circumsision doesn't matter and that they should shave their head as an outward expression of it. Given that Christianity, as we know it, didn't start till after 300AD, and Christ focused almost exclusively on Jews baptism for conversation would have been the norm. - I'll share the paper when I get a chance.
Reading the OT, and judging the number of false charges against Jesus multiplying over time - they are worse than when God called them His enemies way back when. So who thinks Paul was right? Not me.
Acts 2 records the inauguration of the reNEWed Covenant (Jer. 31:31-33) having been ratified by the blood of the Messiah with the Ruach HaKodesh writing it's TERMS (i.e. Torah) on the "fleshly tablet's" of the Talmadim's/Disciples' hearts.
Jeremiah 31 is a Covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, not with Gentiles. It will also happen in the future, when everyone knows God. Today we have billions of atheists and agnostics.
Bless you guys, but I had to laugh when you said that this is new, 😂 orthodoxy ie Ethiopian, Greek, Russian, etc… has held, what is inaccurately described as replacement theology from their beginning.
Supersessionism was the position of ALL the Church until a couple of guys about 1830 made up dispensationalism.
But nobody has shown that Israel and Jew are not 100% identical, until now.
@@leepretorius4869 The Apostle Paul certainly did not think Israel and Jew were identical. The Apostle Paul may have used Jew and Israel interchangeably in some passages. I suspect sometimes he uses Israel in the context of the covenants, but he uses Jew in the context of unbelief or in conflict between Jewish and Gentile Christians. This is just an impression and not the result of a study.
The Apostle Paul would have been knowledgeable about what each word referred to, but he either addresses his audience as Israel for some purposes, and then he addresses the same audience as Jews for other purposes. The Apostle Paul would have known that the term "Jew" was first used during the destruction of the first Temple (2 Kings 25) and during the Babylonian exile. If he wanted to refer to the people of the Mosaic/Sinaic Coventent he probably thought of them as Israel.
It might help to think of Abraham's descendants as the Hebrews; Jacobs dependents as Israel, Israel after the destruction of the first temple as Jews, and the Christians made up of both Gentile and Jew again as Israel. The Apostle Paul recorded that "all Israel will be saved" rather than "all Jews will be saved." A distinction must be made by Bible students between when the name "Israel" is associated with a race or nation rather than used to refer to spiritual Israel who are the faithful from both the Gentiles and Jews.
Jesus pointed to the old law covenant being no more and fleshly Israel as a nation losing God's favor. Matt. 21:33-44, Matt 23:33-39, Luke 20:9-19.
Paul, who said he received direct revelation from the Christ pointed to the Israel of God being made up of spirit-anointed natural descendants of Israel and spirit-anointed people of the nations.
They will be anointed by the Father.
2 Cor. 1:21, 22:
"But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment." (NAB)
These individuals will have nothing to do with false teachings like the trinity or modalism. As neither Christ nor the apostles taught such things.
Need to distinguish between Written Torah and Oral Torah.
(I think that's what Sha'ul/Paul is referring to when he talks about "rightly dividing the word of truth")
Paul himself believed in the oral torah. Just like Jesus and the true apostles, the only apostles, which are only 12.
@@leom6343 8 elkanites + zebedee and sons + 1 axis mundi
The final part of John also is the opposite of what is written on in Mark
Thanks for this. Three categories, maybe four should be considered. Jews originally descended from Judah occupying the kingdom of Judah area, together with some other Israelites; Levites were a separate group as only Levites could become priests in the Temple. The juxtaposition between the two explains some of conflicts in the NT.
Then after the Hasmonean reconquest many of the other tribes in the diaspora returned and settled in tribal areas in the north. Jesus visited the cities that were previously capitals of some of these. They were communications centers with the tribes abroad.
Both Josephus and Philo insist that the descendants of Israel constituted the greatest population on earth, inhabiting 'every country and island.' A large diaspora of Israel that had been transported by Assyria now became a powerful governmental force in Parthia (Junianus Justinius's history) Acts 2:9ff.
The descendants of Israel consisted of two groups; circumcised and uncircumcised. Was Paul's mission as a Benjamite to the uncircumcised Israelites primarily as well to uncircumcised gentiles? For those who wished to enter the Temple Court of Israel, only the pure genealogical Israelites who were circumcised could enter, Luke 24:53.
Israel was destroyed as a nation. The Hebrew Matthew has Jesus saying the kingdom was torn from Israel, they would be destroyed (40 days of Jonah - 40 years to destruction of Temple) and the kingdom given to those who would give the fruits due to Elohim by His people. (keeping Covenant with Him) Isaiah 42 says Israel will be burned and they would not even know why. How does this not fit Psalm 2? Paul was a liar, he could not be a true prophet of God.
Good discussion. I personally like Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The only OT reference for Jesus rising on “the third day” comes from Hosea 6.
That’s not an accident in light of this thesis.
There is also Jonah.
@@glenbsmith1863 - that’s true; thanks for the reminder
It's all about Israel. Not random joe blow pagans. The "not my people" were the Israelites who were cast out into the nations. It's the same concept. The scattering and regathering promise.
Paul loved making up things.
Not agreeing with the apostle Paul does not mean he made things up. He was very much a Pharisee of the school of Gamaliel and influenced by the first century Jewish culture. If one desires to contradict the New Testament writings by the apostle Paul, one must attack divine inspiration of the texts in the Bible written by him. In other words, are there passages in the New Testament attributed to the apostle Paul that are not divinely inspired?
@@glenbsmith1863 it doubted he was a Pharisee. He was a total Heretic. James didn’t appreciate or endorse his teachings. He was a charlatan.
Daniel 9 also is about another thing besides what is written on in the New Testament too
Sorry I am struggling to see how this is at all revolutionary. The concept of “Israel” has always been a political construct. Sure Israel was originally a family, the sons of Jacob who was renamed Israel. But, by the time of the exodus Israel was a people, made up of a mixed multitude. It was this mixed multitude that was the covenant party to the treaty with YHWH at Sinai. That political body split in two, Israel the northern kingdom and Judah the southern kingdom. The southern kingdom was divorced and swallowed up by the nations. She ceased to exist as a nation, a kingdom, a political entity. Judah was separated and exiled but maintained some kind of existence as an exiled nation. She was preserved in her dead state for 70 years of exile. And then she was restored to the land under the medo-Persians and was reconstituted as a political nation state with her governor, government, temple and priesthood, in the seven “sevens” of Dan. 9:25. This political entity was the survivor of the extremely long period of the 62 “sevens”, under the medo-Persians and then the Greeks until Israel resisted and expelled Antiochus 4 and became independent for nearly 100 years. Then under Roman overlords for another more than 100 years. This is still the 62 “sevens” until The Rebellion of 66 CE. But this political entity Israel was the Old Creation, not the New Creation, not the Kingdom of God. And in the 70th “seven” she would be taken over by a rebel government and the rebel government would set up another Abomination of Desolation and stop the regular sacrifices in the Second Temple for “half seven” before that Old Creation, that restored Second Temple Israel would be completely shattered in the war to the end. Desolations are decreed, not averted like the last time under Antiochus 4. At that point Israel would be recreated as a New Political Entity, in which the “everlasting righteousness” of Dan. 9:24 would be attained. At that time would Second Temple Israel be destroyed as the Fourth Beast, by the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds, per Dan. 7 to destroy the new “little horn” that isn’t Antiochus 4. At that time the old Israel is shattered as the feet of iron and clay of Dan. 2. The new political entity that inherits the kingdom of God is the invisible kingdom, made without hands, per Dan. 2. At that time the wise and evangelists would awake from the dust of the old Israel and this time they would shine like the stars and have the eternal life of the everlasting kingdom. At that time would another group arise from the old Israel as the little horn of the Fourth Beast, as “the people of the prince who is to come” and destroy old Israel and the temple. These would awake to shame and everlasting contempt, Dan. 12, when “the power of the holy people has been completely shattered”.
Thus the Israel concept has always been a political entity, and as Paul taught that old entity would not inherit the kingdom of God, the flesh and blood Israel of the old body. Rather, the old body would be sown into the ground and die, and from her corpse would rise a new body, which was not the old body. The new body is the transformed body. The dead ones of the old body would rise not in the old body of Israel, but in the new Israel, the spiritual body, the same body in which the living were already raised in. Both the living and the dead would need to be “changed” to be subsumed into the one resurrection body.
Paul’s teaching in Rom. 9-11 are about the true nature of “Israel” which was always a political entity. The entity would change as the kingdom changed from the old to the new. The old Israel was the clay, made up of vessels made for dishonour and vessels made for honour. The vessels made for dishonour would be the vessels of wrath, which God was bearing with much patience, before they would be smashed as the feet or iron and clay in 66-70CE. The vessels of honour were filled with the spirit and would be gathered into the new house of the new marriage for the wedding day. That new house is the New Israel, the true Israel, into which the dead of Old Israel would also be gathered along with the gentiles so that God would be “all in all”
Paul doesn’t innovate or redefine Israel. Paul insisted he taught nothing other than was Moses and the prophets said would happen. If you can’t find what Paul is saying from the Old Testament you’ve probably not read him correctly. Israel has never ever been a genetic or blood entity or defined by blood, she has always been a political construct, a political creation of her maker YHWH, composed of a mixed multitude.
Paul is preaching a Perennial Christianity, a more universal style faith imo.
This is just an odd thought. Israel is not about genealogy or DNA. G-d has placed "Israelites" in every kindred, tongue, and people. For these, an "apokalupto" occurs, uncovering things already known. These Israelites might be eunuchs, not castrated males assigned to some harem, but not married to the right king or God. These Israelites have unique talents and are placed into the cultures and peoples of China, Saudi Arabia, or the mountains of Peru. We want to limit deity when all of us are made in His image.
Where does this tradition come from? Is it Talmudic?
You seemed to be saying that Gentiles who come to faith in the Messiah make up 'Israel' along with Jewish believers in the Messiah. Well yes, because Gentiles are being grafted into the Vine. However, Paul seems to contrast 'Israel' with Gentiles, hence the question in the title of this video. Paul contrasted the hardening of 'Israel' during the time of the Gentiles, ie the last 2000 years. So Gentiles cannot be included in that sense of 'Israel' if the two are being contrasted. I dont think you actually dealt with this? But perhaps your book does.
And Paul does teach very clearly that people, Jew, Israeli or Gentile, are saved by grace through faith (in Jesus). He also clearly said that Jesus died for him. There was a purpose in His death which affected Paul's standing with God. That is profound. So you cant simply dismiss such foundational teachings of Paul like that. But what he does say is that faith will always show in obedience. That is why our 'works' will be judged because good works are the outworking of faith. So per James, without works your faith is dead/meaningless. Paul would heartily agree. God have mercy on us all!
There is a time coming when "The Nations" or gentile Christians will become Israelites.
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The Tribe of Ephraim.
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If the Apostles sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes then who will sit on a throne judging Ephraim?
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Jesus Christ partially answers this question when he quotes the Messianic Psalm 2 about someone other than himself:
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Revelation 2:26-27
And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS 27 and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, the same as I have received from my Father
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There will be a king of the Nations! The Tribe of Ephraim! Gentile Christians!
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Read Psalm 2.
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Psalm 2 isn't messianic in the way you think, it only looks that way because Christian translators play with the capitalization. There is no difference between lord and Lord in Hebrew. Psalm 2 is about Solomon. Check out the context of 1 Chronicles 22:7-10. Also 2 Samuel 7:14 depicts the same scene, and God says, "I will be his father, and he will be my son, when he does wrong I will discipline him." Even fundamentalists don't claim that's talking about Jesus doing something wrong in God's eyes.
@@sparrowthesissy2186 ----
Psalm 2 is about the king of The Nations (Gentiles not Jews).
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Psalm 2:8
Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your own possession.
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@@isaiah30v8 This Davidic psalm, about the son of David, uses hyperbole like in many places related to those two. David's kingdom is repeatedly promised by God to last forever, and it didn't last 500 years. There are a lot of excuses made for that, but like a lot of that Davidic stuff, people tried to pretend it could still be true somehow some day. The Psalms all around it, and the stories I cited of God talking about Solomon as his son, make the original context pretty clear, though. Don't get tricked by the capitalization in it, honestly. Look at David's song in 2 Sam. I think it is. It's so exaggerated it sounds like the end of the world, but what he's talking about there is just some early Iron Age battle. That was how they wrote poetry back then.
Not 100% sure I followed the idea. Kinda sounds like a nation dealing with population collapse addressing the problem through mass immigration. Guess I need to read the book. But wouldn’t Paul, if he thought this was the fulfillment of that previously promised “new covenant”, wouldn’t he then also believe that these new members of Israel as the restored tribes fall fully under the authority of the Torah? How does he disconnect these two?
Read the Book of Hebrews. The covenant made with Israel is defunct.
Israel = Gentiles (romans) , gentile = nobles = warriors*
Jacob = Priests ( judahites = jews )
* whole Israel will be saved through a remnant (claudians = chosen = saints)
You are right. but OT story is just blueprint for us to understand Gods plan of salvation..
What man dont understand or dont want to accept that God is not dealing locally . God operate globally. So when all went in the wrong direction,when man was ONE,and started to build city for themself,make name for themself,and by themself to go to God,God came down and scattered man over the whole earth,and confuse language..
Than pulled one man out /Abraham,and started to rebuild .. So the whole world is IL ...But those who will be Jews are priests..Those who seek God,seek wisdom of God,not man,knowledge of God,not man...Sons of God,priests in order of Melchizedek that will be reviled,and they will bring all to God..
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Bondage of corruption .. I can tell you one.. People that think there are prophecies to be fulfilled,not see all finished and at hand..
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
Bondage is:
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
You are right. but OT story is just blueprint for us to understand Gods plan of salvation..
What man dont understand or dont want to accept that God is not dealing locally . God operate globally. So when all went in the wrong direction,when man was ONE,and started to build city for themself,make name for themself,and by themself to go to God,God came down and scattered man over the whole earth,and confuse language..
Than pulled one man out /Abraham,and started to rebuild .. So the whole world is IL ...But those who will be Jews are priests..Those who seek God,seek wisdom of God,not man,knowledge of God,not man...Sons of God,priests in order of Melchizedek that will be reviled,and they will bring all to God..
Rom 8 :19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8 :21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Bondage of corruption .. I can tell you one.. People that think there are prophecies to be fulfilled,not see all finished and at hand..
Gal 4 :3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
Gal 4 :9........ how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
Bondage is:
Gal 4 :10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
House of Israel and House of Judah have not yet been recombined. Israel is headed up by Ephraim. Judah contains only Judah, Benjamin, and their portion of Levi.
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Why don’t use the term Hebrews?
The words "Hebrew," "Israel," and "Jew" each have different nuances and historical references. No covenant promises were made to the Jews. Even though Abraham was a Hebrew and not an Israelite, the promise made to Abraham was carried forward in Jacob whom the Lord named Israel. Only the children of Jacob/Israel were heirs of the covenant. The covenant did not include every child of the Hebrew Abraham or of the Hebrew Issac.
A wonderful and inspiring 119 page book written in 1922 by Philip Mauro follows the linage of the covenant people. The Wonders of Bible Chronology.
It certainly seems that if Paul is claiming that Jer 16 is about "transubstantiation" of gentiles into Israelites, it seems a that the LORD over-promised and under-delivered:
[Jer 16:10-19 KJV] [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what [is] our iniquity? or what [is] our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; [12] And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me: [13] Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, [neither] ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour. [14] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [15] But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. [16] Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. [17] For mine eyes [are] upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. [18] And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable things. [19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit.
What does doing justice look like in practical applications?
Who cares? Pharisees are not about doing.
Justice ideally is full restoration. Full restoration in many instances is impossible - as in murder. Practical justice is vengeance and punishment which is not a just outcome for the victim. Believers should think of justice in making restitution, when possible, as benefiting the present and future, and in protecting the victim and society. Injustices may be stopped. Injustices may be avoided. Restoring justice always means fixing something that will always show the marks of being repaired.
@@glenbsmith1863 So then, justice is not practical for the followers?
I can see how to practice it on myself in the repentance ritual. Most can barely confess sins. Sit in judgment on yourself only.
@@goneprivate2714 Maybe we should define justice, legal justice, and divine justice. My comment was about legal justice. What do you mean by practical justice?
@@glenbsmith1863 Thanks for the clarification. Since this is bible talk, I was wondering how we could implement this justice concept into a doing the Word project as James recommends. Doing justice in our self, not just preaching to folks.
Im quite surprised that this is new within scholarship. This is the view of pretty much the entire gentile messianic torah observant community. Yeshua spoke of two flocks and the other (not the yehudi flock to whome he was speaking at the time) must come two. I even think the two witnesses in revelation are the two olive trees/two kingdoms. The work of gathering in which was started by Messiah Yeshua has been ongoing. Amazing times in which we live is that ephraim is awakening to his identity. As stated in Romans 11 the uncultivated olive branch is grafted into the houshold of Israel. Replacement theology has obscured this fact and funnily enough is warned against in Romans 11 too.
The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
@@glenbsmith1863 I dont believe supercessionism (or replacement theology) is what is being communicated here in this discussion. Its more the re formation of the whole house of Israel by the regathering of the dispersed ones into the body which already constitutes the faithfull remnant of the house of Judah (which is inclusive of Bejamin and Levi). The novel idea which Paul talks about in Romans 11 is the fulfillment of prophecy of the regathering of the lost tribes is being fulfilled by the gentiles (outwardly) who are being grafted in to the household of Israel. The question is however whether Yeshua when he sent his disciples out, and instructing them to not to go the way of the Gentiles or Samaritans but to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This seems to suggest they knew where they were. Is this the same group?.... If not it must be the great commision at the end of Mathew which is in congruence with the intention to gather in the gentiles of which Paul was focused?!
@@pgson8929 I agree with your post. But doesn't the Apostle Paul use Jew, Israel, faithful remnant, household of Israel, house of Israel, house of Judah somewhat indiscriminately? Isn't "the regathering of the lost tribes" being fulfilled by the gentiles (outwardly) who are being grafted into the household of Israel to make up those of the new covenant who are neither Jew or Gentile?
About Supercessionism? The Apostle Paul affirms there are faithful Israelites already in the household of Israel like himself and others. The term "Replacement theology" includes the idea that Christian gentiles replaced Israel. While Gentiles are grafted into the vine, they are not replacing Israelities. The vine is Yeshua rather than Israel. The idea of Supercessionism is that the Body of Christ includes all the redeemed from Israel and the Gentiles. Another term for the Body of Christ is the Church or "those called from the world."
About the "ten lost tribes." There were people from the ten northern tribes who immigrated into Judah beginning when Israel split by following King Jeroboam, and others immigrated over time into the south to worship at the temple. The idea that "Ten Tribes" were "lost" is a mistaken notion. Maybe most of the people of the ten northern tribes were carried into exile, but not all. The tribe of Simeon occupied land south of Judah and there were people of the tribe of Dan that remained in the land they first occupied between Benjiam and the Philistines other than in Transjordan. Also, there are "Jews" alive today whose surnames are that of the ten northern tribes. I know Jews whose surnames are Ruben, Dan, Asher, and Zebulum. Also, there is the 13th tribe, Levi and the name Choen used by some who are descendants from the Levi Aaron. In the New Testament and in history, the Samaritans included descendants of the ten northern tribes.
Just as vernacular language today exaggerates (hyperbole), so did the ancients, especially the Hebrews recording the biblical texts. Such terms as “all” and “forever and ever” are hyperbole. Therefore, Bible students should not assume "all" the blood descendants of the ten northern tribes have ever been "lost" or were deported by the Assyrians.
The people who say the or Jews(Yahudym) are not descendants of Yasharal(Israel).
Who are such people? DNA testers? If Jews are not descendants of Israel, why have they been persecuted for 2500 years?
See TH-camr Jason DeCosta who describes this position as Israel Only (IO).
For those who choose no child mind will enter into the gates of the Heavenly mind 369 Heavenly Time Cosmos there is no war in the new age Consciousness power 3 sets all prisoners captives free from all the chains that bind us
Read "Romans Proves Paul Lied".
Romans wasn't written by Paul but by Tertius
Welcome to reality! We are called heretics by all, but הקדוש ברוך הוא calls us beloved! The Torah is immutable! And Yeshua is our promised King of Righteousness, to the glory of the singular (not triune) G-d!
God calls you heretics, because God says to keep his law but you reject it. There is also no Yeshua in the Greek Nt and God says he will judge everyone by his deeds. So the human sacrifice is useless and even forbidden
I'm curious, what are your thoughts about Jesus as they relate to David? Do you think the old prophecies are mostly about the restoration of the monarchy, or do you go by the more gentile Christian interpretation that the Davidic part isn't really literal or doesn't really matter because the Kingdom is a more abstract thing, not a specific government in Jerusalem the mashiach/christou was supposed to form?
What a great time to talk about "Israel", and spew out ineptitudes with perfect confidence!
Well in that case you really should refrain from doing it sweetie
What lol
Paul did not say..."All Israel will be saved."
Romans Chapter 11: In its New Covenant context... There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the New Covenant Church in this passage. Plan A is found in verses 23 and 24.
In Romans 1:16 Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews. This time period can be found in Matt. 10:5-7, and Acts 10:36-38, and Gal. 1:14-18. Many try to claim God never gave the Jews a chance to accept Christ, so there must be some Plan B of salvation before or during the Second Coming of Christ. Romans 1:16 proves they are wrong, since Paul said the Gospel went "first" to the Jews. Many ignore the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", and as "men of Israel", and as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. The Gentiles were not grafted in until several years later. This passage proves Paul was right about the Gospel being taken "first" to the Jews.
Were all of the Israelites "partially" hardened in Romans 11, or were part hardened and another part were not hardened? The answer is found in the "remnant" of Romans 11:5.
Paul reveals two different groups of Israelites in Romans 9:6-8. There is an Israel of the promise, and an Israel of the flesh. This is part of the context of Romans 11.
Paul speaks about the "remnant" of Israel in Romans 9:27. This is also part of the context of Romans 11.
Paul starts Romans 11 with two different groups of Israelites. In verse one Paul reveals he is still an Israelite, even after his conversion. Then Paul refers to two different groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah. There were the Baal worshippers, and there was the faithful "remnant". In verse five Paul says there is also a faithful "remnant" of Israelites during his time. This must be the Israelites who have accepted Christ, as on the Day of Pentecost.
Paul uses the two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles grafted together into the same tree. The unbelieving Israelites have been broken off but can be grafted back in through faith in Christ in verses 23-24.
Verse 26 is the problem for many modern Christians. What does the verse actually say, and how is it changed by many in the modern Church.
I have heard two of our nations famous preachers say the following.
"And then all Israel will be saved..."
I have heard another say the following.
"And all Israel will be saved..."
What does God's Word, recorded by the Apostle Paul actually say?
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The English word "so" is translated from the Greek word "houto", which is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing. Some have changed the word from "so" to "then", in order to change the meaning of the verse.
How will all of the "remnant" of Israel from Romans 9:27 be saved? The answer is found in the verses that precede verse 26 and are found below.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Paul quoted from the OT in referring to the Deliverer coming out of Sion to pay for sin. Did this happen at Calvary, or will Jesus die again for His people in the future?
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Verse 28 can only be understood by looking at how Paul started the passage. He started with two different groups of Israelites and he ends the passage in the same way. There are two different groups of "they" in verse 28. One group of "they" reject Christ and are the enemies of God, and another group of "they" are the election which accept Christ through hearing the Gospel and faith.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Based on Luke 21:24b-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the Second Coming of Christ. This agrees with what Paul said in Romans 1:16 about the Gospel going “first” to the Jews.
"Based on Luke 21:24b-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the Second Coming of Christ."
Also on the ‘last day” John 6:39, 40, 44, 54.
Tertius wrote Romans letter
DUET.30:7
DUET.30:7
DUET.30:7
THE
KARAITE
The
Anti-paul
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ISAIAH 60:16
EXODUS
4:22
EXODUS
19:5
BOTTON LINE...
GENESIS
18:19
PSALMS
89:14,15
97:2
ECCLESIASTES
12:7
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ISAIAH
42:6 & 49:6
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ISAIAH 49:16,26
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GENESIS
12:3
(DUET.30:7)
Chaos - God calls Abram - Abraham - Issac-Jacob (Israel) - 12 sons/12 tribes (children of Israel) - Judah - Jesus Christ (Messiah) the seed of promise. If you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed. Gods master plan
Stated clearly. However, many don't read the Bible.
Garcia Sarah Lopez Larry Lopez Christopher
I really wanted to hear more from Mr. Staples, but James Tabor, as always, controlled the floor.
In the Jewish view there are 3 groups of men - Gentiles (nations), Noahides (lawful gentiles), and Jews (Torah). In Paul's view there is now a new 4th group - followers of Jesus (Kingdom) which is populated by the previous 3 groups. This 4th group is the Kingdom of Jesus (i.e. the Name) and is much better than the 3 previous groups because each citizen of that kingdom is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Opinions seemed to be tainted by the viewpoint that Judaism sits on top of the heap, but in reality, the laws that governed Adam/Noah are the superset and the Judaic/Torah laws are just a subset of those previous laws. All (souls) were in Adam, and all souls that believe in the Name are therefore redeemed, the rest of the souls that haven't believed are recycled via reincarnation.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Matthew 12:21
“And in His name the Gentiles will hope.”
reincarnation? Please provide reference.
@@glenbsmith1863 Look up Efraim Palvanov, he explains a lot in his reincarnation series. Job 33:29-30 "“Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit, that he may be lighted with the light of life."
@@glenbsmith1863 Job33 : 29, 30 - “Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit, that he may be lighted with the light of life."
@@ezekielsaltar4728 Thank you. There are always more to comprehend for Bible students. Seems Bible students could read this as if Elihu believed in some form of reincarnation or repeated incarnations.
These verses are in Elihu’s rebuke of Job.
Elihu is making the point that God acts and speaks in many different ways.
Four Interpretations.
(1) These verses are in the Bible, so they are divinely inspired TRUTH.
(2) Elihu was divinely inspired and spoke the TRUTH.
(3) These verses just expressed the beliefs held by Elihu. Therefore, not all that was recorded as the beliefs of Elihu should be considered by Bible students as being divinely inspired.
(4) Elihu did not mean this about an individual man happening again and again, but he described what God did for each man. Therefore, it was the act of God that was again and again, but each time with a different man.
@@glenbsmith1863 Look up Rabbi Efraim Palvanov's reincarnation series, it is very informative.
Very interesting, thanks so much. I speak 5 languages, have studied ancient religious/philosophical texts for 32 years and always understood that each scholar think and translate according to their "laziness". This is the disease in academia. Most copy each other, how can this be a surprise for so many centuries.
When studying Asian religions it's OBVIOUS where the source of most ideas and words came from. Like Spinoza (obviously a Buddhist influence) scholars still can't admit their ideas originate from Asia (in Avestan, Pali, Sanskrit or Prakit and ancient Chinese languages). In Mandarin they still use the story of Paradise for the symbol of Fu, a garden, a man and a woman with God.
We could save a lot of time if you would study Asian languages. Start with Abraham - Brahma married to Sarah - Sarasvitta, Satan - Satana, etc, etc... It's all from the same origin.
Modern English Bible translators are very guilty.
Is = Isfet = Isis = Lilith, Ra = Son = Lucifer, El is godhood, which can only come through anointment of El Elyon, God the most high and his favorite brain child, Karma aka the Holy Spirit. It's not any particular species, tribes, or people that originated on the chosen planet, but the shortest statement you could make of the Christ promise without carrying too much baggage away from Egypt, following Moses to a new land - leaving the corrupters of narcissistic Akhnaten behind. The name would have been healthier if they called themselves KaRaMEl, perhaps?
🙄🙄🙄
@@michaelsmith9453... Fairy tales got them.
Take a pill
@@michaelsmith9453 Do your research, dope. Everything I wrote can be backed up with solid facts, not selfish dogma
It's funny how many dogmatic fools don't know squat about El Elyon and the Divine Council, despite it being the most important information in the much-mistranslated Torah.
🔥 Paul meant the opposite of what Jesus taught (as he often does).
" *ALL* Israel" ???
Jesus says:
Matt.7
[13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
_"For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.' "_ (Romans 10:13)
vs
_“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."_ (Matthew 7:21)
not really! listen to this video again!
@@kevan7978 Read it for yourself.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.“” (2 Corinthians 5:10)
Vs
"“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24)
******************
*On the sum of the commandments*
Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these *TWO COMMANDMENTS* depend all the law and the prophets.
******************
*On whom God has mercy*
Paul says:
Rom.9
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
Jesus says:
Matt.5
[7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
******************
*On forgiveness of trespasses*
Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
******************
*On what is honorable among men*
Paul says:
2Cor.8
[21] for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.
Rom.12
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.
Rom.14
[18] he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
1Cor.10
[33] just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.
Jesus says:
Luke.16
[15] But he said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
Luke.6
[26] Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
******************
*On the commandments and eternal life*
Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.
Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.
******************
*On your father*
Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.
Jesus says:
Matt.23
[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
******************
*On the destiny of the creation (heavens and earth)*
Paul says:
Rom.8
[21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Jesus says:
Matt.24
[35] Heaven and earth will pass away,
******************
*On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets*
Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
******************
*On the number and identity of teachers*
Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,
Jesus says:
Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.
******************
*On the number to be saved*
Paul says:
Rom.11
[25] Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in,
[26] and so ALL Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.
Jesus says:
Matt.7
[13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW.
******************
*On remuneration for preaching the gospel*
Paul says:
1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?
Jesus says:
Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.
******************
there is no-one DO-ing good (Paul) but keep trying.
@@willempasterkamp862 Paul:
_“For he (God) will repay according to each one’s deeds; to those who by patiently DOING GOOD seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life”_ (Romans 2:6)
_so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in EVERY GOOD WORK, growing in the knowledge of God,_ (Colossians 1:10)
_Let us not become weary IN DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up._ (Galatians 6:9)
I can find verses where Paul says no one is doing good and that only goes to prove that Paul contradicts himself. Are you trying to say that you are too lazy to read the nonsense that Paul wrote or that you are too busy watching TV and eating Doritos?
Both condemned Israel.
Welcome to the Messianic Movement!😊
This is the thinking of many in the Messianic Jewish Community and has been for some time!
Where is he?
A made up religion that's not even 80 years old😂
@@leom6343 Sweetie, _every single religion_ that exists today, and every religion that once existed and vanished subsequently, was once at the stage of "being not even 80 years old"
@@notanemoprog well that's not the religion of Jesus or the apostles but a young christian missionary movement
Gods of light and our infiniteONE INFINITECreator has no name, is the One abOve all, no word can describe, no image can compare, forever and eternally the desire of all ages HOUR One infinite Creator, we are all carbon copies of, heartbeat of heartbeat individually unique through our lightIAM OF IAMO
three above our heArt
three below
seven sums OUR Immaculate Conception from first light
and all Ancient of Days we call gods, have many names
Veiled as Wandering angels inTIME3
for the love of Mankind through all third dimensional childHood, Valley of the shadow shadow shadow of death playing field Time
Enky>3
AkHenAten
SoloMON
Religion. Hehe. Hehehe.
I can explain it, but the wise. And prudent probably won't understand. We're surrounded by a cloud of witnesses and you've entertained angels unaware. Rip, when capole was caught up to the third heaven, he saw things and heard things that he couldn't share. I've seen the same things and people don't believe in when I tell them. Hebrews 11:39,40. How is it that they without us should not be made perfect. How is it Jeremiah said God would recompense the sins of those of that days' fathers, into the bellies of their children, and punish them all together? Because you were your fathers. You were in the desert with Moses. The sporot of the beast, natural man go.back to the. Earth and the sport of man fo back to God who gave it. Solomon said there is no remembering those things before you and you won't know whom you'll be in the future. It helps to k own the Biblical cosmology is true too. Prove all things and hold to that which is good. Freemason s at NASA worship Licifer/Satan. How.much truth you really think they have revealed to.you? Paul said we are to know no man after the flesh but after the spirit. Not even Jesus. How do you do that? Elijah when he appears again in thensame.way, born of woman, turns the hearts of the children to the fathers and fathers to the children. What's that? Just what Jesus did when asked if Elijah was supposed to come first before him. He did come, but he didn't know who hwnwas and they cut off his head. Did the Samaritan woman really have 5 husband's in that lifetime amd another man she wasn't married too? Jesus was slapped from behind while being brutalized, " prophecy who hit you" they said. He knew ew people by the spirit just like I do.
Doubtless great learning, but surprisingly ineloquent for a professor.
You should listen more carefully, perhaps several times, while taking notes.
Ineloquent and uninformed to think his idea is novel.
@@glenbsmith1863 Narrator: "His idea was, in fact, novel."
@@notanemoprog Ok. Novel for you, but not for the past 2000 years for the Church.
@@glenbsmith1863 [citation needed]
A Gentile is ANYONE who is outside of the Covenantal relationship with YHWH.
Hosea's "Lo Ami" to the Northern Ten Tribes effectively places them into the camp of the Gentiles.
@@michaelsmith9453 Jews are not just descendants of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Simeon, Dan, and Levi. Many people from the other ten tribes migrated to Judah after the kingdom was divided.
This is an old, stale topic...Herbert W. Armstrong taught this entire topic nearly 100 years ago. Literally nothing new here.
Not a single word that came out of his mouth is something that hasn't been a common topic of discussion amongst my friends.
@@KravMagoo The comment by Dan Edwards is correct. This has been the view of the Church - Supercessionism. What surprised me is that Dr. Bart Ehrman id portrayed as thinking Supercessionism is a novel idea.
The Scripture actually doesn't need Paul's opinions which actually are quite fallible..
we can't erase them, can we ?
@@willempasterkamp862 I'd suggest to disregard Paul's writings, but as it is in contemporary society, most would rather disregard reasonable requests from their own spouse, parents and grandparents than disregard the desires of a family dog which they purchased but never did need.
All true believers in Jesus Christ will be saved if they are true people of faith.
Where did Jesus say that?
@@Bhagwan.HarambeThrough the mouth of the prophet Joel.
You believe fairy tales
@@EmilyTodicescu so it wasn’t Jesus? The man who rebelled against the entire religion? The man who took a whip in his hand and single-handedly removed all the money changers from the temple? Jesus was a badass and he wouldn’t need to be crucified if he came back, he would kill himself when he saw what the Christian’s have did to his name. Jesus said the kingdom of god is Here Now, inside of you. Why are you waiting for it to come when it’s right in front of you?! Look into the nicene creed, read anything about Constantine, he exiled his own wife and children, Constantine created your Christianity to save Rome.
Jesus didn't believe In salvation by faith, he taught to keep the law of Moses. Sorry, you don't even keep the first commandment and follow Paul.
Jesus Christ is the new temple. The Catholic Church is the new Jerusalem and the laity is the new Israel.
Dr.Ammon Hillman explains , old greek .