*Do NOT accuse players of cheating without real proof.* Watching this video does *NOT* qualify you to accuse anyone of cheating. *Do NOT harass or send negative messages to Cotton or anyone else regarding this incident.* Thanks to homie and Whisky for their translation work.
geeezus guys. thanks for the hardwork translating that 33 page to shed light in this. im not a long time subscriber but cheaters for a masterpiece we all love is unacceptable. i hope that person learn from using cheats, learns their repercussions of their bad decision and stay off from it in the future.
@@moresothanyou Yep. He's been banned from an achievement leaderboard community (I don't recall which one) for cheating. His Jamestown videos were definitely cheated. I've heard of others, but haven't confirmed them.
any platform community for the matter. Some of their tricks even require to be precise to the point of escaping death because of one pixel on a hitbox.
"We are not entitled to success every time." Me playing a bunch of roguelike games: Failure? I was born in it. Molded by it. I didn't see success until the RNG gods took mercy upon me.
Noita and Spelunky changes you. you could have the best gear in the entire game but it won't save you from instantly dying to literally anything, or in Noita, literally anything.
@@gmonkman He's right, but that doesn't change the fact that the logic of taking the time necessary to learn the ins and outs of a game only to cheat to not have to spend as much time playing it is severely flawed.
You can still make it pass as truth if the run is convincing enough, since we cant really see at first glance the exact hitbox of everything, so being hit because of a extremely small error might still pass as truth since you cant tell wether he hitted the hitbox or not
I don't know why TH-cam decided I needed to see this as someone who has never played hollow knight. I feel like someone who has wandered into the wrong classroom by accident but found the subject of the lecture interesting enough to stay anyway
I never thought that in Hollow Knight community someone would cheat. You know, because we're bunch of masochists who repeat words "No cost too great" or "No voice to cry suffering"
I’m pretty sure 80% of everyone that have gotten the “embrace the void” achievement have done it through the exploitable invincibility glitch on both pc and console.
Off topic, but I (bilingual but only involved in western gaming community) find the nicknames Chinese players give to HK bosses really interesting lol they call Pure Vessel "senpai" and call Broken Vessel "cousin" Lmao
@@madflam3192 Hornet is "big sister" (technically "little big sister" but Chinese people like to add the term "little" in front of things to seem endearing, so it really means big sister)
14:40 "The reality is that we are not entitled to success every time. That isn't how the world works and that isn't how games work either. Failure is a necessary part of the process of improving." Very well said.
ok but shouldn't you investigate methyl for using wayward compass on p5 ... all jokes aside, thank you so much for the shout-out! Super glad to see the support for the Chinese HK community. For anyone interested, I've put a URL to my + Whisky's translation of Methyl's document and Cotton's responses below. Happy to answer any questions in the replies.
This is a perfect case of the narcissist prayer. "That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that’s not a big deal. And if it is, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, you deserved it."
“This famous hit less player has actually been using invincibility this whole time” Me who knows nothing about hollowknight and has never even looked it up: ”damn…that’s crazy” 2024 edit: Hey there! Just wanted to say that after making this comment I actually tried playing a bit of Hollow Knight. Unfortunately it’s not really my kinda thing. Can definitely see the appeal tho!
@@spaghettboy2173 it’s a charm that is useless in combat (but very useful elsewhere) that everybody keeps equipped as a joke. What it does is that it shows where the player is on the map
All these big name cheaters always end up raging and showing their true selves, when evidence becomes overwhelming against them. Like an ace attorney character having a breakdown.
I think the saddest and most disappointing part is not just the cheating but then getting caught with proof and becoming defensive and rude towards others. If he had just owned up immediately I think people would‘ve been able to overlook the „it was for practice and I forgot“ excuse better.
There’s actually an error in the translation part about his apologies. When the translation says it isn’t a big deal because the majority doesn’t mind, he was actually talking about the majority doesn’t care how it happened, the reason behind the invincibility. Not the majority not minding about the cheat. Just pointing that out cause I learn both language.
谢谢你的意见! I did consider this while translating. In this case, Cotton is being deliberately vague about the sentence's subject in a moment when the incident of cheating and his methods are tied very closely together. Rather than losing the dismissive, ambiguous, and carefree tone with a paraphrase, I decided to translate this ambiguity directly in a phrase-by-phrase fashion- the "it" in English may similarly be read both ways. Thank you again for your feedback :) I will be more careful in the future.
@@homie5087 That apology was so vague in general I didn’t even get what he was talking about, he probably had it in his mind to avoid even inputting a subject into his sentences. 说了也等于没说一样，像某个郑某个爽的英译中回应 (doge)
-One of the first people to get an impressive achievement -Turned out he's a cheater -Responded with anger once called out -Declines it at first, admitted later this reminds me of something...
There's something poetic about one of the creatures that hit him literally being named "fluke". Great video, idk why but cheaters are such an interesting topic.
@@fordconnors4326 What are you talking about? It aged great once Dream admitted to it. Ironically, Dream is still worse than Cotton. He took 7 months instead of 1 to admit, and he still maintains that it was all an accident. Cotton deserved to be reprimanded, but he deserves more forgiveness than Dream.
@@thermophile1695 the Chinese have a huge emphasis on honor, respect and integrity in their culture (for the most part), so of course he would come clean and admit his faults. Otherwise the CCP would arrest him
he's clearly very talented to even be able to convincingly fake a hitless pantheon 5 run, or beat any radiance; its a shame he had to resort to cheating, attacking his own community when they asked him about it and destroying his credibility. fireborn's right, tho: typically when that frustration of getting stuck or hitting your limit comes, the best thing to do is not touch it for a while and focus on other things you enjoy. but when your entire social media presence, social circle and likely your source of income is based around doing something you feel like you just cant achieve, and maybe you feel like you need to be the best at this game since you've devoted years of your life to it, or keep escalating your content's difficulty to keep fan engaged, it's very tempting to just download a single file that makes all your problems go away.
@@earnem4175 think it's still talent; i only did pantheon 5 succesfully 2 times even though I was able to beat radiance and pure vessel hitless in the area where you train. The p5 just stresses me out so much, so while it's terrible that this guy cheated, no doubt has he good skill at hollow knight.
@@moonlord9294 I know i watched that video, i just meant that the person who cheated didnt want a fast time, they wanted a perfect run but couldnt get it so they resorted to cheating to get the perfect run faster
I love hollow knight, the atmosphere, the lore, the artstyle and world - everything is simply marvelous. I simply can not play it myself tho because holding the button to jump down to go higher messes my brain up in ways that i simply can not comprehend. Massive respect to anyone finishing this game, speedrunning it and doing challenges - you will always have my gratitude for letting me enjoy a game i'll never be able to play myself! This is also the reason that drama like this and someone faking their way into the hall of fame of hollow knight players hits much harder and is incredibly disappointing. Cheating is okay if it's for fun, it absolutely isn't okay when it's within a competetive setting.
I would suggest continuing to try and play it! The jumping messed with my brain when I first started too, but after a while I stopped noticing it, and now I have 350 hours, 112%, and have beaten all but four bosses hitless.
i know i am late but u should definitely shouldnt give up on this gem of a game just cuz of that. iam pretty sure you are not the only one with the issue probably everyone had it, i also had this same weirdly specific issue but trust me it is nothing seroius and not that handicapping and something u definitely can get used to eventually
@@btchiaintkidding7837 Thank you for your kind and encouraging words, it's reassuring to know that it's not something weirdly specific with myself. Considering this i will definitely give it another try at some point :)
Frankly this is something that would only take a minute or of gameplay to get used to or are u mouse+kb? platformers are just hard without a controller
If this helps, …four five years ago I quit the game just before beating hornet precisely because of my issues with that, but for some reason I picked it up earlier this year and it stopped being annoying, much to my surprise… I think I can appreciate the design more as it gives the player more control over the precise movements. Don’t know if bearing the notion would make adapting to the jump more intuitive :o
I'm 100% sure if I ever cared about modding and speed running I'd forget to turn off mods and not even realise it. Such as a mod that only ups a drop rate. A very small upgrade to a game I probably wouldnt even notice if I was doing multi-day playthroughs as I'm sure any normal MC speed runners do.
@@LamisonJamison more people are mad at the response of utter indignation from both Dream and Cotten, and inability to listen to the reports without getting upset and considering all alternatives
ima just leave this reply here just in case someone doesnt get the difference between both sentences: "most speedrunners dont cheat to get faster times", indicating that they dont cheat to get a faster time than anyone else. "they cheat to get times. faster." indicates that they cheat to get a bunch of more times very fast. if i made a mistake, please point it out. id love to fix the mistake.
@@hyutea I don't know if this is what you meant or not but I believe that the last part (they cheat to get times, faster) meant that the speedrunners cheat so that they don't have to waste time repeatedly trying to do something they know they can do due to bad RNG.
@@peregrinus524 It's also a matter of thinking that you are already able to do it, even with no RNG. It applies to every speedrun games but Hollow Knight P5 makes a great exemple, when you are attempting/training for Hitless P5, you can already reliably kill every boss hitless, you just never did all of them in one go. Therefore you know that theoratically you can do it, so it becomes even more frustrating every time you try and fail due to a careless mistake or because you lost your focus.
@@vraolet I can kinda get why he and Dream cheated though with that. Knowing that you can do something , but then you try and fail over and over again is frustrating.
this isn't fair to fire, honestly. clearly it's not dominance that fire is asserting, but is urging everyone to respect their fellow community members and the game itself. if it were just dominance, i would hate this video.
I can add to the pile if you'd like. I don't like Hollow Knight, or any game that requires you to buy a wedding ring in order to have fun (anymore). In the past when I had all the time in the world, sure, but now it's very annoying to find a game that you love the soundtrack/art/gameplay of, but you realize that it's "hard" 3 hours in and can't refund. It's hard to find time to sit down and play even the most casual of games, let alone dedicate time to playing a metroidvania with such a high skill floor. But that's basically a non complaint, tbh.
@@-ShiraZen- um are you talking about the price ? Because i'm pretty it's very cheap compared to what it's really worth.and if not could you explain me what you're talking about ?
@@Error0101 I have a job and I love playing hard games, but it's pretty clear that working for your entertainment isn't exactly universal for all kinds of players and that's ok. For some people, the thought of spending hours trying to give your game value until it eventually becomes enjoyable is unacceptable. Likewise I can't stand easy or relaxing games like Stardew Valley or Minecraft, but I wouldn't want to nuke every single game like that simply, because taste exists and everyone has it. More varied games is always better for everyone.
not only that he insulted the game and the community saying "shitty game and shitty people". then was like "sorry guys it was a just a joke that i got from my fav streamer" like tf man? what kind of streamer said "my fans are shitty people" is a joke.
Actually the fact that you people constantly seem to have cheaters existing under your very noses for months or years at a time shows that it's actually a great idea to try to sneak one by you rubes...It'll probably work! Even if some get caught those are inevitably the tip of the iceberg. Can't wait to see which person you all swore was legitimate will get outed as a cheater next! 🍿
"hmmm based on our looking the game seems to have been slowed down by 0.00000000001% speed and brought back 100% alright we have complete evidence this is cheated it is now off the leaderboards"
@@del3740 Is “Touhou” the shortened version of “Touhou: Luna Nights?” Because I just got the game during the recent lunar new year sale and even though I haven’t played it yet I would be happy to hear about an active speed run community for it.
Yep, there's also an invincibility glitch. I forget how you do it exactly but I know it's related to water in some way, meaning you can do it in the godhome
I'd rather openly admit that I quitted the Path of Pain on the last segment, than cheating and claiming that I did it legitamatly. Wheres the point in a challenge, when it is done without effort ? This doesnt make me mad, just disappointed that we reached a point where online reputation is more valued than the experiences we have.
Cheaters usually act that way. DREAM fucking hired lawyers to defend him when he tried to prove he didn't cheat. Ultimately, most of the community now knows he did. Cheaters ALWAYS 100% mess up when called out.
@@THEGRUMPTRUCK I think you mean his Astrophysicist with no sort of credibility and getting dunk by an actual statistic mathethician. It is obvious Dream is just covering his ass since his stans would believe him jn everything
@@KayoFazBlooper yes lmao even at the end the guy he hired said dream most likely cheated at the end. Because the best possible odds for him and I mean the best best of odds with all bias towards dream is still in the 6 figures. No one would be mad if he said yeah guys I cheated I'm sorry I just got frustrated but cheaters never come clean
"the sh*tty game has a lot of bugs" yeah it has bugs have you even seen ghost lmao literal beetle so many bugs *ok the sarcasm was bad but yall get it*
This is something I love about the speedrunning community. Other communities hear somebody cheated and they tried to cover it up, whereas with speedrunning they all don their detective caps and write 732 page papers about why somebody did or didn't cheat, and honestly I'm here for that lmao
Cheating in most games Eh, the anti cheat MIGHT get you Meanwhile cheating in a speedrun will get a group of 'lawyers' on your ass as your every action is brought into question.
Especially Hollow Knight, since it is a generally calm community and isn't full of eleven year olds. It has funny dragon enby cutting three thousand grass and the chaotic multiplayer mods
Not sure if you're still stuck on it, but I like to use Sharp Shadow + Dashmaster to dash through him whenever he tries shooting you As long as he's not up against a wall, you'll both avoid the attack and deal 1.5x your nail damage to him, and get a chance to deal even more damage with nail strikes or spells
12:22 i had this happen two times in path of pain and screwed up. I was so mad thinking my switch just laged. Thank you I didnt know something like this can happen. And also thank you for this nice and interesting video.
Finally someone explains what cheaters actually cheat for. Doesn't make cheaters out to be these unsalvagable fakes that have never achieved anything prior or done anything special prior. Just explains the mindset and how things work.
@@destheoren It's a text-book excuse. Neither of them came up with it first. People have been claiming "accidentally" doing using something that led to them getting an extremely unfair advantage over everyone else in competitions for as long as competitions have existed for.
There is a stereotype out there that Chinese players are known to cheat, especially in competitive games. Some bring up things like lifestyle where "if you aren't trying to win by any means necessary, you aren't trying at all" that supposedly is pervasive out there. I feel like this video is an argument against that in a way. While cheating is present, the Chinese Hollow Knight community came forward and handled a cheating incident not unlike any other high profile western speedrunning community. It looks respectful and honorable to the game, while giving opportunities for the accused the gracefully admit error. It is unfortunate for how some of Cotton's reactions were not so good, but hopefully they can win back some trust in the future. The language and culture may be a world away, but we're all still gamers in the end.
You said exactly why people go by the stereotype. Not because we fail to see them as fellow human beings, but rather precisely because we know, as fellow human beings, how much influence peer pressure and tradition can exert on an individual. And while it is sad that things go this way around the word, the cold truth is that no one os obligued to accept this kind of behavior, much less to enjoy or respect it. So yeah, not thrusting someone no matter what because of their origins is xenophobic and irrational, but refusing to pay respects to unknown places of origin (specially ones with a bad history) is only logical. Blame the cheaters for that, not the outsiders. The only solution is to weed out the cheaters instead of demanding respect. And for that, I congratulate BlackMoon and The CN HK community.
As a Chinese, I'd say cheating in games isn't popular nor appreciated. Though cheaters are just a small ratio, the massive amount of players (due to the large population) results in "Chinese cheater" being everywhere. NOBODY likes cheaters!
Dude went through the 5 stages of grief : He denied the thing in chat first and tried to immediatly claim his innocence using the debug excuse. Then he started to become real angry because the top players still didn’t believe him. He tried to bargain his way out by using other legit runs in comparison and by apologizing for his previous insults. Radio silence, he removes his video for "reasons" and starts to defend himself less and less, this can be likened to the depression step. Finally, he accepts his fate by first admitting tampering the flukemarm clip and then by publishing his apology letter.
@@isaiahdahler8933 mind you, its not every human that go through like that. there are people who when caught cheating, just went along and said "ok, i was cheating. if you need more proof, here it is." its incredible that humans are predictable and unpredictable at the same time. some people il go through the 5 stages of grief, and some il simply fuck with you and skip all stages because yes.
@@clairelili873 if I got caught I'd say fuck it and admit to it, no need to let it drag out for ages just to be taken down anyways. I can't lie for shit anyways so I wouldn't even make it past the 1st phase lol
and they seem like a jack of all trades player, i mean I've seen them play almost any game and they show perfect gamesense and gameplay, they are the biggest god gamer
It may be a coincidence but I know that in the game called trackmania TAS stands for "tool assisted speedrun" Edit: thinking about this, that person may really using tas. Normally the people do that kind of runs do it to show or reach the theoretical perfect performance.
I very much appreciate how you handled this video. I've seen many a video covering a topic like this with a tiny disclaimer at the end that you shouldn't harass the accused individual, but it is important also to recognize the effects media can have on an entire portion of the world's perception on a single community based off of a single person's missteps, and addressing that there are many folks out there who have legitimate runs in the Chinese HK community. I just wanted to pop on and say I appreciate your care to the impact this video does and can have, where it's rare to see so much thought put into these kinds of things. Keep up the good work
I’m a gamer from China and I can sorta confirm that “shitty” phrase can be borderline be referring to that streamer at around 10:50 mark. But with that context it’s so hard to not think that he’s insulting the game and the whole community.
The game is bad and the community is delusional and completely oblivious to its faults. They’re blinded by its art and music and just ignore the ridiculous design choices
"No matter how others perceive it, what matters is that you know how hard you pushed yourself to achieve your success. No amount of external recognition can replace that." Seriously awesome life advice from my boy Fire.
@@calumbarry1829 yeah, that was the issue. I went fully blind into my first playthrough, spells included, and i ended up almost never using that one. Still regret the amount of time i coulda saved if i knew how good it was. I pretty much hid under the bottom left platform and smacked it in between spawns
Damn he apologized and admitted his faults and stated his regrets, letting all his fans know what he did. Instead of hiring an anonymous astrophysicist from fiverr to legitimize his “work.”
@@Arkansym Does Dream pay you to try to trick people into believing falsehoods about statistical improbabilities, or are you just that much of an obsessed white knight fanboy? Getting struck by lightning 3 times during your lifetime is 50 million times more likely to happen than getting the odds Dream had during his speedruns, it's practically impossible.
@@Arkansym There is plenty to prove him wrong. No proof is ever 100.00% undeniably correct, 99.99% (or in Dream's case 99.99999999%) is enough. Even with Dream's own numbers, he is more likely to be struck by lightning than anyone in the entire world is to ever achieve the luck he got in those speedruns (not to mention how lucky he would have to be to have that person be him and not someone else). That's called proof. As for the garbled garbage of paragraphs about math not being developed enough etc, please take your psuedo-intellectual nonsense elsewhere. You're not being deep, or clever. There is hard evidence but it requires an understanding of how math works, which you seem to lack. I am sorry for my slanderous comment though, I will retract it and apologize. I see now that you are not trying to be deceptive or fool anyone in any way, but rather that you somehow genuinely believe in your own psuedo-scientific garbage.
@@Arkansym You can infer very strongly that Dream cheated. Even though it's nearly impossible to prove he altered the chances RNG provides, it's more than reasonable to assume the six stream lucky streak was impossible and therefore manipulated. He got higher drop rates for items that were at a fixed rate, then got more lucky rates on items that can barely be farmed reliably over time. That's the proof. It has nothing to do with weather phenomenon, the lottery, or anything of that sort when reaching for a conclusion that isn't supported by clear circumstantial evidence.
Excellently done video. Very thorough analysis. I personally am perfectly satisfied with beating p5 without dying. But I can understand how cheating in a "hitless run" would be very frustrating to see for people who work hard to do it honestly. It's important these people are exposed to keep gaming alive for all of us.
I can never understand how someone can be proud of themselves after successfully cheating on something very difficult anyway. There is an amazing feeling from doing something difficult (especially on hk for me lol) that means the reason I push myself isn’t to impress others, it’s to simply become a better player, legitimately. Insert shameless channel plug here
It reminds me of how I felt after I finally beat Nightmare King Grimm. I had beenputting in about 10-15 attempts at it on and off for about 6 months. I would go at it for a few days, lose hop, give up for a while, and then come back ina few weeks and try again. Rinse and repeat. It was extremely disheartening at some points because I would get to phase 2 of the fight and then immediately die, and then be stuck on phase 1 for weeks. One day last month, I sat down and said to myself "you don't get to play any other games until that vampire-ass motherfucker is dead." So I started grinding out attempts. To make it more fun, I decided everytime I died I would take a sip of my drink and see how fast I could get drunk (the answer is FAST.) It was a brutal process. I would do several attempts and not even make it past phase one, and then after dozens of attempts I was able to make it to phase 2 with some consistency. I had started to get ared on his moves; kniowing which ones would give me an opportunity to heal, which ones would best fto use Shriek of Fireball on, which ones would be good for getting a lot of slashes in, and knowing there were some moves where attacking was forbidden and that I had to use my dash at the exact right moments. I only ever made it to phase 3 twice. The first time I was so excited I immediately got distracted and died lol. The 2nd time well, that, as they say, is history. I remember waves of ecstacy and joy and relief washed over my body at the realization that I didn't need to fight this guy ever again and, subsequently, that I would never have to equip Grimmchild ever again. And then I remembered P5.
@@ShugoAWay I have to say, why would he cheat though, it's said that he was practicing on stream and just so happen to get a record. (also please don't flame me.)
That's because Dream is a popular youtuber with a rabid fanbase that is willing to forgive and defend him even if he committed murder and claimed it was an "accident"
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 Or most of his fanbase just don't give a shit and just like him for his videos/dsmp. Cheating in a speedrun, denying it for 7 months, and then giving a half-assed apology is scummy, but it's hardly a big enough deal to warrant trying to cancel him or refusing to support him/watch his videos
@@pey5571 when looking deeper into it, dreams story makes more sense than if dream had intentionaly cheeted. ether dream is the WORST CHEETER EVER or he did not intentionaly cheet. the mods asked him for his mod forlder. any sane cheeter would provide a fake mod folder. the mods even said he could just list the mods that where in his folder but he decided to tell people that he deleated his folder and forgot what was in it. also dream's brand is not built arround speedruns. at this point he is speedruning becuase he wants to, not becuase he is getting massive attention from it. though how dream acted at some points was immature. i wonder if dream's brain has matured yet
Except he didn't get away with it? He was banned from the leaderboards and a lot of people hate him for it, how in any way is that getting away with it??
13:55 this is summed up by a brilliant quote from the youtube videogame journalist Karl Jobst- cheaters often _don't_ cheat to get a "faster time", they cheat to get a time _faster_. It's a fascinaing phenomenon, the most skilled players are also the ones most susceptible to cheating, because they believe their hard work is deserving of the reward they are looking for
*Do NOT accuse players of cheating without real proof.* Watching this video does *NOT* qualify you to accuse anyone of cheating.
*Do NOT harass or send negative messages to Cotton or anyone else regarding this incident.*
Thanks to homie and Whisky for their translation work.
Did horheristo cheat? I didn't know this.
can you do impossible mode ? (of Hollow Knight)
geeezus guys. thanks for the hardwork translating that 33 page to shed light in this. im not a long time subscriber but cheaters for a masterpiece we all love is unacceptable. i hope that person learn from using cheats, learns their repercussions of their bad decision and stay off from it in the future.
@@moresothanyou Yep. He's been banned from an achievement leaderboard community (I don't recall which one) for cheating. His Jamestown videos were definitely cheated. I've heard of others, but haven't confirmed them.
@@fireb0rn nvm i found your video on him
As someone who has seen Celeste speed-runs and modded levels, never underestimate that community... they know hitboxes better then I know my family.
They could probably pick out a hitbox being a pixel out of place at a single glance.
any platform community for the matter. Some of their tricks even require to be precise to the point of escaping death because of one pixel on a hitbox.
Things like this is why I think "Maker" style games should be more common
Let the monsters fight, if you will
@@Lh0000 iirc there is a skip in Hollow Knight White palace that is literally one pixel.. so yes you are most definitely correct
And grammar
"Now all of china knows youre a cheater!"
You cultured fellow
LOL
Mulan reference? xD
LMAO
-15 social credit points
"We are not entitled to success every time."
Me playing a bunch of roguelike games: Failure? I was born in it. Molded by it. I didn't see success until the RNG gods took mercy upon me.
Truer words have never been spoken. We have been rng'd to hell and back
Funny
did laugh
Ha ha hawwh
Exactly. I love roguelike games. From TOME to Isaac.
Noita and Spelunky changes you. you could have the best gear in the entire game but it won't save you from instantly dying to literally anything, or in Noita, literally anything.
I feel bad for the bosses. They put in so much work and weren’t even able to damage him. Cheating is not a victimless crime.
the “victims” are just lines of code.
I hope they get reimbursed for all the time they wasted fighting this cheater.
@@maxenc no they are real people because I said so
True
😂
That’s unfortunate man, can’t have shit in Hallownest
like silksong!
Yup
@@_pear6026 was about to say that
@@danielwan2410 are you saying that Silksong is shit? If not, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
theres a lot of shit in the sewers which in the city which is in hallownest
It's kinda funny because if you don't get caught using invincibility in a hitless run, you probably didn't need invincibility in the first place.
As Karl Jobst says, they cheat to reduce time invested.
@@gmonkman He's right, but that doesn't change the fact that the logic of taking the time necessary to learn the ins and outs of a game only to cheat to not have to spend as much time playing it is severely flawed.
Really activating invincibility makes you play worse because you subconsciously know that there is no backlash to not playing at your peak.
You can still make it pass as truth if the run is convincing enough, since we cant really see at first glance the exact hitbox of everything, so being hit because of a extremely small error might still pass as truth since you cant tell wether he hitted the hitbox or not
@@bruh1704 Yeah, but playing convincingly enough to make it look like you're not getting hit takes nearly as much work as just not getting hit.
"Babe, wake up, there's drama in the Chinese Hollow knight speedrunning community"
Lmao, ain’t that the truth. i dont even play HK
Same here lol
@@LE_Arasaka I just came to watch about some random dude cheating on a random game
@@Blurro isn't that all of us watching the stuff about dream?
@@StormNimbus101 eh I watched a lot of his vids before and played a good bit of minecraft so
As one of the best "all-hit" runners, these cheaters are a disgrace.
I'm no. 1 global record "catch all projectiles any%"
@@Nova-tl4yc Godlike.
Don't wanna boast, but I AM number 1 get hit by every single primal aspid in game any% runner.
Impressive y'all. I might as well flex about my 1st place in get hit by every vengefly including the ones that are not even in the game%.
As one of the best longrunners, i agree
I don't know why TH-cam decided I needed to see this as someone who has never played hollow knight. I feel like someone who has wandered into the wrong classroom by accident but found the subject of the lecture interesting enough to stay anyway
You should play it. It’s a great (if sometimes frustrating) game.
@@Sircreepington9th oh, I definitely plan to at some point.
Bruh, the art alone is worth the 20 dollar price tag.
I highly recommend you not to do this often. I have watched more than 7k hours this way
Same.
Cotton should’ve hired an astrophysicist to prove his innocence
lol wut?
@@longlostwraith5106 See the dream cheating scandal
Haha facts
Yes, an nameless astrophysicist with a PhD who graduated from Harvard and that in fact, the data were off by 7.49 trillion therefore he did not cheat.
@@jadenawesomeguy2187 "admitted"
I never thought that in Hollow Knight community someone would cheat. You know, because we're bunch of masochists who repeat words "No cost too great" or "No voice to cry suffering"
Ye
Ikr? I was like “Christ but we love torturing ourselves what”
Were kinkyer then the white lady we love the pain
I’m pretty sure 80% of everyone that have gotten the “embrace the void” achievement have done it through the exploitable invincibility glitch on both pc and console.
@@BreadEarthSociety Im not even sure how to do that, still unwilling to do so anyways
Off topic, but I (bilingual but only involved in western gaming community) find the nicknames Chinese players give to HK bosses really interesting lol they call Pure Vessel "senpai" and call Broken Vessel "cousin" Lmao
are there other nickname like that ?
@@madflam3192 Hornet is "big sister" (technically "little big sister" but Chinese people like to add the term "little" in front of things to seem endearing, so it really means big sister)
Actually thats kind of wholesome and funny
Omg i love that
That's actually so cute! and it kinda makes sense haha
Imagine cheating and then the whole community create a mod just to find out if you cheated or not
What an honour
i guess he was pretty popular
That's generally forensics.
imagine cheating and then the whole internet starts debunking you with math oh wait
Big Brain
3:15 I love how someone used long nail instead of mark of pride specifically to use wayward compass
Lol
Wayward compass is op
that man is a legend
No cost too great
Wayward compass is op, made the game more easy for me.
I can understand why he had to use invincibility for Flukemarm. The alluring goddess of motherhood is just too distracting.
Because he can’t FLUKE it
Lmaaaaoo
*Slurp*
Flukemarm gonna make me act up
So many holes, so little time
As Karl Jobst said:
"Good players don't cheat to get a good time, they cheat to get a good time *faster* ."
Is it just me or does this intro sound like it’s read from a karl jobst script?
@@PhantomEye11 bro i am not the only one???
Cheating is like practice mode. You can't get a good time by cheating, but you can sur eas damn practice with it.
@@dexnacorn7807 he says a lot of karl Jobs like things. It's clear fire watches his videos.
@@lotus_flower2000 damn fire has taste
14:40 "The reality is that we are not entitled to success every time. That isn't how the world works and that isn't how games work either.
Failure is a necessary part of the process of improving."
Very well said.
Hi Relyea
So my 80 deaths to watcher knight and 60 deaths to Hornet 2 weren't in vain... Feels good...
Did you just heart your own quote?
Lmao
Yep
Cotton: *the cheats were used for something else and got left on*
Dream: *write that down WRITE THAT DOWN*
HoW dARe yOu SAy dREaM cHeaTeD!!!
(Sarcasm if you couldn’t tell)
Lol
@@Amara87387 yeah they be like:
DwEem IbS WhO I StAn FoUr
A Chinese player cheating? You don't say? Better keep a microscope on them.
Yea that’s weird but I makes more sense for dream since most of what he does revolves around modding the game a lot
ok but shouldn't you investigate methyl for using wayward compass on p5
... all jokes aside, thank you so much for the shout-out! Super glad to see the support for the Chinese HK community. For anyone interested, I've put a URL to my + Whisky's translation of Methyl's document and Cotton's responses below. Happy to answer any questions in the replies.
bitly dot ws slash show slash bNEf
Obviously wayward compass is the best charm in the game
a meme?
Patheon of God gamer, nice
i think it was for fun
This is a perfect case of the narcissist prayer.
"That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it."
“This famous hit less player has actually been using invincibility this whole time”
Me who knows nothing about hollowknight and has never even looked it up: ”damn…that’s crazy”
2024 edit: Hey there! Just wanted to say that after making this comment I actually tried playing a bit of Hollow Knight. Unfortunately it’s not really my kinda thing. Can definitely see the appeal tho!
its a great game, only issue is markoth
@@ARCHIVED9610 "only issue is markoth"
lol
Played a little Hollow Knight, but same!
Definitely wasnt looking for Hollow Knight cheating scandals tonight
youtube magic
Get ready to be spammed with comments about how you should play it. I'll go first, play Hollow Knight it's a lovely game
Just noticed that one P5 hitless player on the list that had wayward compass equipped lmaoooo. The meme shall never die
What a legend lmaooo
Holy shit I checked and you’re right😂 that’s awesome
Please do forgive me for my heresy. But what is wayward compass
@@spaghettboy2173 it’s a charm that is useless in combat (but very useful elsewhere) that everybody keeps equipped as a joke. What it does is that it shows where the player is on the map
@@dustoo. Yeah that sounds kinda useful but only if you’re new
That "forgot to turn off cheats" thing sounds oddly familiar as of late...
Well true
@@lilkirbyhasadream5846 lilkirby has a what?
@@h2o848 Dream
Not trying to defend anyone there, but just gonna say that Dream made that story way after all that drama with Cotton
@@grubygrzib6308 never said cotton did it after dream, I'm just pointing out the similarity in what they said and that I find it funny
3:14 3rd place had Wayward Compass equipped. What a chad.
Fr
That's one of the people in this video!
Hell yeah
Can we count this as cheating?
All these big name cheaters always end up raging and showing their true selves, when evidence becomes overwhelming against them. Like an ace attorney character having a breakdown.
For real, I cringed when I read what was basically "Welp, they dont even like me, thats why"... Geez.
Or, like a shithead revealing that they are even more of a shithead than other people think.
Ace attorney was a warning
@@smpmuzpid Like Kira Yoshikage
"just like the simulation"
As a wise man once said
"speedrunners don't cheat to get a faster time, they cheat to get that time faster"
*absolute legend
Definitely Karl the Absolute Legend Jobst.
Huh
You just said the same thing twice
@@bladehunter1097 i didn't -_-
shout out to the guy who beat the pantheon with the wayward compass
What a chad gamer
He was just afraid of getting lost.
He mustn't be that good at the game if he needs wayward compass to win smh
@Nickolas Quickenton please, the person wouldnt be able to even complete true ending without wayward compass in their build
Of course he did. Wayward compass is basically a win button. Wayward compass op.
I think the saddest and most disappointing part is not just the cheating but then getting caught with proof and becoming defensive and rude towards others. If he had just owned up immediately I think people would‘ve been able to overlook the „it was for practice and I forgot“ excuse better.
The guy's ego couldn't take it.
Hey he did do it hitless. So no lies there.
You're not wrong
Thanks Monokuma
r/technicallythetruth
technically true lul
@@PilloTheStar redditor
There’s actually an error in the translation part about his apologies. When the translation says it isn’t a big deal because the majority doesn’t mind, he was actually talking about the majority doesn’t care how it happened, the reason behind the invincibility. Not the majority not minding about the cheat.
Just pointing that out cause I learn both language.
谢谢你的意见! I did consider this while translating. In this case, Cotton is being deliberately vague about the sentence's subject in a moment when the incident of cheating and his methods are tied very closely together. Rather than losing the dismissive, ambiguous, and carefree tone with a paraphrase, I decided to translate this ambiguity directly in a phrase-by-phrase fashion- the "it" in English may similarly be read both ways. Thank you again for your feedback :) I will be more careful in the future.
@@homie5087 That apology was so vague in general I didn’t even get what he was talking about, he probably had it in his mind to avoid even inputting a subject into his sentences. 说了也等于没说一样，像某个郑某个爽的英译中回应 (doge)
@@homie5087 so in other words he downplayed it even then? Wow
-One of the first people to get an impressive achievement
-Turned out he's a cheater
-Responded with anger once called out
-Declines it at first, admitted later
this reminds me of something...
Doesn't sound familiar. It must have been a *dream*
Ahhh yes the Billy Mitchell defense
Let's talk about that pfp
@@ng42. uhhh watermbelob
Watermbelob Bagel
so he was...cotton the act
i'll see myself out
nah that was a good one lol
honestly 10/10 joke and these commenters not liking it are haters
Honestly not a bad joke lol
Oh no. Oh why. Why. This joke.
I'm glad you cottoned on to that pun, too
Fun fact: 90% of the dislikes are not because of the video exposing Cotton. It's because of people hearing Dream Cheated in this video.
Why am i not surprised
the fact that I'm not surprised.
Wit dream cheated?
@@jims4658 Yes, this has been proven multiple times over by many different people
Funny thing but dream stands would be watching dream content
There's something poetic about one of the creatures that hit him literally being named "fluke". Great video, idk why but cheaters are such an interesting topic.
Lmao
He also got hit by a ball of compacted poop
It's seeing them get caught that's interesting. It's like reading Sherlock Holmes.
And also being hit by a dungball.
They are interesting
"other respectable speedrunners such as dream" this aged like fine milk
Dream's ability to be taken seriously just went adios
pretty sure that was sarcastic but it sure aged bad
@@fordconnors4326
What are you talking about? It aged great once Dream admitted to it.
Ironically, Dream is still worse than Cotton. He took 7 months instead of 1 to admit, and he still maintains that it was all an accident. Cotton deserved to be reprimanded, but he deserves more forgiveness than Dream.
@@thermophile1695 the Chinese have a huge emphasis on honor, respect and integrity in their culture (for the most part), so of course he would come clean and admit his faults. Otherwise the CCP would arrest him
@@perrybb2
Right, I forgot China was China.
he's clearly very talented to even be able to convincingly fake a hitless pantheon 5 run, or beat any radiance; its a shame he had to resort to cheating, attacking his own community when they asked him about it and destroying his credibility.
fireborn's right, tho: typically when that frustration of getting stuck or hitting your limit comes, the best thing to do is not touch it for a while and focus on other things you enjoy. but when your entire social media presence, social circle and likely your source of income is based around doing something you feel like you just cant achieve, and maybe you feel like you need to be the best at this game since you've devoted years of your life to it, or keep escalating your content's difficulty to keep fan engaged, it's very tempting to just download a single file that makes all your problems go away.
I'm not sure being called talented, when you aren't. Is quite the opposite
@@earnem4175 think it's still talent; i only did pantheon 5 succesfully 2 times even though I was able to beat radiance and pure vessel hitless in the area where you train. The p5 just stresses me out so much, so while it's terrible that this guy cheated, no doubt has he good skill at hollow knight.
@@couch_philosoph3325 Skill as in above average, cause you can see in the clips, he gets hit a lot. But with his cheats, he appears skilled
@@earnem4175 i mean the flukemarm one wsd embarassing, I'll give you that xD
From Manhunt to cheating scandal. This is all starting to sound familiar XD
lol
Hahah. Busted!
@@fireb0rn cool video but the title lowkey makes me wanna throw up
@@stopsign1663 rude
@@genesisanima manipulation of item drops
"Runners don't cheat to get a faster time. They cheat to get a time faster."
-Karl Jobst
Just change the word time to ”run”
@@Hithere-uz6wd Essentially the same thing
@@Hithere-uz6wd karl was talking about speedruns
@@moonlord9294 I know i watched that video, i just meant that the person who cheated didnt want a fast time, they wanted a perfect run but couldnt get it so they resorted to cheating to get the perfect run faster
The fact he went through all stages of grief
Double u
Oh my glad he did
l
I love hollow knight, the atmosphere, the lore, the artstyle and world - everything is simply marvelous. I simply can not play it myself tho because holding the button to jump down to go higher messes my brain up in ways that i simply can not comprehend. Massive respect to anyone finishing this game, speedrunning it and doing challenges - you will always have my gratitude for letting me enjoy a game i'll never be able to play myself!
This is also the reason that drama like this and someone faking their way into the hall of fame of hollow knight players hits much harder and is incredibly disappointing. Cheating is okay if it's for fun, it absolutely isn't okay when it's within a competetive setting.
I would suggest continuing to try and play it! The jumping messed with my brain when I first started too, but after a while I stopped noticing it, and now I have 350 hours, 112%, and have beaten all but four bosses hitless.
i know i am late but u should definitely shouldnt give up on this gem of a game just cuz of that.
iam pretty sure you are not the only one with the issue probably everyone had it, i also had this same weirdly specific issue but trust me it is nothing seroius and not that handicapping and something u definitely can get used to eventually
@@btchiaintkidding7837 Thank you for your kind and encouraging words, it's reassuring to know that it's not something weirdly specific with myself. Considering this i will definitely give it another try at some point :)
Frankly this is something that would only take a minute or of gameplay to get used to or are u mouse+kb?
platformers are just hard without a controller
If this helps, …four five years ago I quit the game just before beating hornet precisely because of my issues with that, but for some reason I picked it up earlier this year and it stopped being annoying, much to my surprise… I think I can appreciate the design more as it gives the player more control over the precise movements. Don’t know if bearing the notion would make adapting to the jump more intuitive :o
Wow, sure are a lot of speedrunners forgetting to turn off cheats before their big runs.
Who would have guessed right?
It's crazy right. Must be something in the water.
@@bashfulbreloom9294 it's like the teufort lead water but for speedrunners
I'm 100% sure if I ever cared about modding and speed running I'd forget to turn off mods and not even realise it. Such as a mod that only ups a drop rate. A very small upgrade to a game I probably wouldnt even notice if I was doing multi-day playthroughs as I'm sure any normal MC speed runners do.
@@LamisonJamison more people are mad at the response of utter indignation from both Dream and Cotten, and inability to listen to the reports without getting upset and considering all alternatives
“Most speedrunners who cheat don’t cheat to get faster times. They cheat to get times, faster.”
-Karl Jobst
(In relation to 14:00)
ima just leave this reply here just in case someone doesnt get the difference between both sentences:
"most speedrunners dont cheat to get faster times", indicating that they dont cheat to get a faster time than anyone else.
"they cheat to get times. faster." indicates that they cheat to get a bunch of more times very fast.
if i made a mistake, please point it out. id love to fix the mistake.
@@hyutea I don't know if this is what you meant or not but I believe that the last part (they cheat to get times, faster) meant that the speedrunners cheat so that they don't have to waste time repeatedly trying to do something they know they can do due to bad RNG.
@@peregrinus524 oh ok
@@peregrinus524 It's also a matter of thinking that you are already able to do it, even with no RNG.
It applies to every speedrun games but Hollow Knight P5 makes a great exemple, when you are attempting/training for Hitless P5, you can already reliably kill every boss hitless, you just never did all of them in one go.
Therefore you know that theoratically you can do it, so it becomes even more frustrating every time you try and fail due to a careless mistake or because you lost your focus.
@@vraolet I can kinda get why he and Dream cheated though with that. Knowing that you can do something , but then you try and fail over and over again is frustrating.
Guess you could say he got Cotton 4K
Why was this actually funny...
This is the best thing I have heard today
EYYYYYY
I don't like you
this was terrible but i loved it
6:22 I think the funniest part about this is after the flukemarm cut, the fluke is still in his hitbox
God gamer Fire exposing fake god gamer to assert dominance
What a chad move
There can be no gods but him
Only one god gamer can stand up
this isn't fair to fire, honestly. clearly it's not dominance that fire is asserting, but is urging everyone to respect their fellow community members and the game itself. if it were just dominance, i would hate this video.
Imagine if fire was one day exposed holy fucl that would be the worst
"Shitty game shitty people" is the only time I've ever heard someone say anything bad about Hollow Knight
I can add to the pile if you'd like. I don't like Hollow Knight, or any game that requires you to buy a wedding ring in order to have fun (anymore). In the past when I had all the time in the world, sure, but now it's very annoying to find a game that you love the soundtrack/art/gameplay of, but you realize that it's "hard" 3 hours in and can't refund. It's hard to find time to sit down and play even the most casual of games, let alone dedicate time to playing a metroidvania with such a high skill floor.
But that's basically a non complaint, tbh.
@@-ShiraZen- um are you talking about the price ? Because i'm pretty it's very cheap compared to what it's really worth.and if not could you explain me what you're talking about ?
@@neptardus6970
He's talking about the time you need to invest in it to get good enough to have fun. Not reasonable for people with jobs and families.
@@Error0101 I have a job and I love playing hard games, but it's pretty clear that working for your entertainment isn't exactly universal for all kinds of players and that's ok. For some people, the thought of spending hours trying to give your game value until it eventually becomes enjoyable is unacceptable. Likewise I can't stand easy or relaxing games like Stardew Valley or Minecraft, but I wouldn't want to nuke every single game like that simply, because taste exists and everyone has it. More varied games is always better for everyone.
@@-ShiraZen- I'd say that's perfectly reasonable. Not every game is for everyone, and that's fine.
I feel like he isn't actually sorry he cheated, he's sorry he got caught
I'm pretty sure that's with all cheaters tho.
not only that he insulted the game and the community saying "shitty game and shitty people". then was like "sorry guys it was a just a joke that i got from my fav streamer" like tf man? what kind of streamer said "my fans are shitty people" is a joke.
Asian motto
If he was sorry, he wouldn't have cheated in the first place.
Some people feel bad after realising how much they hurt others by lying, but in this case he clearly didn't.
If there's one thing I've learned in the past couple of years, it's that you NEVER try to slip something past the speedrun/challenge community.
Actually the fact that you people constantly seem to have cheaters existing under your very noses for months or years at a time shows that it's actually a great idea to try to sneak one by you rubes...It'll probably work! Even if some get caught those are inevitably the tip of the iceberg. Can't wait to see which person you all swore was legitimate will get outed as a cheater next! 🍿
Their autism is too powerful
"hmmm based on our looking the game seems to have been slowed down by 0.00000000001% speed and brought back 100% alright we have complete evidence this is cheated it is now off the leaderboards"
geez, creating an entire hitbox scanning mod just to solve a speedrunning case? the chinese HK community are madlads.
It could help for other stuff too
i swear the HK community is becoming more like the touhou community with bad apple with all the mad lad shit their doing
@@del3740 Is “Touhou” the shortened version of “Touhou: Luna Nights?” Because I just got the game during the recent lunar new year sale and even though I haven’t played it yet I would be happy to hear about an active speed run community for it.
@@cjs4247 i'm not sure if there is a speedrun community but their community love to make the bad apple music video onto literally everything.
@@cjs4247 "Touhou: Luna Nights" is actually one of many fangames of the original ongoing Touhou series. So yea, the Touhou fans are crazy amazing lol
“This famous hitless player had actually been using invincibility”
Me who always keeps dying or getting hit: Wait that exists?
Yep, there's also an invincibility glitch. I forget how you do it exactly but I know it's related to water in some way, meaning you can do it in the godhome
I guessed that would be a thing in the first day of playing just because of how many times I got whacked
Get gud
@@astra3766 He was using debug mod tho
considering how many people complain about pantheon 5 and that the achievement has a 2.7% completion rate reeks of bullshit
That number 5 player seems like a criminal
I completely agree.
Indeed
I'd rather openly admit that I quitted the Path of Pain on the last segment, than cheating and claiming that I did it legitamatly.
Wheres the point in a challenge, when it is done without effort ?
This doesnt make me mad, just disappointed that we reached a point where online reputation is more valued than the experiences we have.
Yup
I don’t get it
Very good sentence:
"Failure is a necessary part of the process of improving"
N O T E D
"The first and only player to complete any radiance"
Seems like a job for Cranky
*DON'T GIVE HIM IDEAS*
TeraChrome is a player working on it and has come pretty close!
:()
@@fireb0rn :0
cranky will then claim that he's not that good at Hollow Knight
...okay I'll admit having a bongo cat synched to your button presses is pretty good.
true true
fair enough
true.. true..
Sam?
As a certain someone would say: "The bongo cat gives you no tactical advantage whatsoever, but that was some fancy gameplay, you're pretty good"
Damn it Clara, always putting cheats on other's computers
🤣🤣
She gets around fast
It looks like he wasn't upset about cheating, he was upset about getting caught
Cheaters usually act that way. DREAM fucking hired lawyers to defend him when he tried to prove he didn't cheat. Ultimately, most of the community now knows he did. Cheaters ALWAYS 100% mess up when called out.
@@THEGRUMPTRUCK did dream actually did it?
Omg that's something a 5 year would do
@@THEGRUMPTRUCK
I think you mean his Astrophysicist with no sort of credibility and getting dunk by an actual statistic mathethician.
It is obvious Dream is just covering his ass since his stans would believe him jn everything
You say that like anyone would act differently
@@KayoFazBlooper yes lmao even at the end the guy he hired said dream most likely cheated at the end. Because the best possible odds for him and I mean the best best of odds with all bias towards dream is still in the 6 figures. No one would be mad if he said yeah guys I cheated I'm sorry I just got frustrated but cheaters never come clean
3:18 It’s funny how most people used mark of pride, quickslash, shaman stone and strength but one guy uses *wayward compass*
And he got the third spot on top of that, what a chad😂
Ofcourse he uses it! It's literally the best charm.
It’s a she and she’s crazy good!!!
Love how Wayward Compass is bolded too
“It was just a prank bro, no foul” is a universal language I see
Person A: Shoots and kills someone.
Person B: "You murdered him!"
Person A: "It was an accident, I forgot I was holding a gun!"
Calling it “hitless” while using invincibility is *TECHNICALLY* right
Prosafiagaming liked that
Can't argue with that golden tier argument lmao
To be fair if you dont get caught while using invincibility you probably dont need it
Its not hitless then, its damageless
@@geckoanims Getting hit involves taking damage... They didn't took damage which means they didn't got hit- r i g h t? ._.
They had "a talk" with cotton
my mind went straight to "they executed him didn't they"
CHEATING IN HOLLOW KNIGHT=
MINUS 100000 SOCIAL CREDITS!
@@PartnershipsForYou
(DETECTED HOLLOW KNIGHT CHEATING)
PUNISHMENT REQUIRED: EXECUTION
it makes it even more cursed that cotton is chinese
@@smeggiamagarwine r/yourjokebutworse
"the sh*tty game has a lot of bugs"
yeah it has bugs have you even seen ghost lmao literal beetle so many bugs
*ok the sarcasm was bad but yall get it*
I mean you ARE. A. LITERAL. VOID. BUG. How is it so hard for that man to understand the game’s about BUGS. (Had to do it man)
it's not a sh*tty game
but yeah a lot bugs like A LOT OF LOT A BUGS even Literal Demon Bug
@@deanxile *dung defender intensifies*
The game is really punishing
I fucking dropped it because my save file got corrupted and the dodge mechanic makes me want to not play the game again
@@higaiwokeru Dodge mechanic?
I don't think he felt bad about cheating I think he felt bad about getting caught.
Bit at the end was genuinely an uplift. Great vid!
thanks megan!!
Bro, that isn’t cheating. He used dreams tactic of gaining 5 years of luck by liking a morgz mum video
He liked the video in 10 seconds, true, fireb0rn is a normie that didn't smash the subscribe button 🙄
@@Mateeazz ok
no no no no you are all wrong he just used way word compass
He went o every vid and did it he now has 999999999%more luck for 9999999years
@@Mateeazz
He's behind the hype
This is something I love about the speedrunning community. Other communities hear somebody cheated and they tried to cover it up, whereas with speedrunning they all don their detective caps and write 732 page papers about why somebody did or didn't cheat, and honestly I'm here for that lmao
Straight up typing up peer reviewed, Oxford level citing articles about a bug game lmao, respect
Cheating in most games
Eh, the anti cheat MIGHT get you
Meanwhile cheating in a speedrun will get a group of 'lawyers' on your ass as your every action is brought into question.
Especially Hollow Knight, since it is a generally calm community and isn't full of eleven year olds. It has funny dragon enby cutting three thousand grass and the chaotic multiplayer mods
Laughs in Herculesbenchpress
@@hallway_revenant7919 isn't FULL OF. still think i know some teens who play HK.
I like how everyone's fighting over who made the fastest P5 hitless run while I'm here suffering with Radiant Enraged Guardian
Not sure if you're still stuck on it, but I like to use Sharp Shadow + Dashmaster to dash through him whenever he tries shooting you
As long as he's not up against a wall, you'll both avoid the attack and deal 1.5x your nail damage to him, and get a chance to deal even more damage with nail strikes or spells
@@darkmonger6244 okay
It must really hurt knowing almost everyone would have forgiven you and still cared about you if you had just been honest.
Yeah that's what your parents are supposed to teach you...
sadly, most people who are blinded by fame tend to be in denial when they do something wrong
Hmm, I wonder who this reminds me of...
@@supbruh7793 yeah it's a tough situation to be in, sadly :/
it's because they themself know of how big of an a**hole they are and they think everyone else knows that too
It's ok guys SnowLeaf just has a really good gaming setup
Dont forgot the chair, that's the key for hitless patheon 5
And a balanced diet
Sleeping 9 hours every night also helps
They also practice 40 hours a day
@@trickytreyperfected1482 They don't have enough time idiot
They only do 39 and a half
3:16
Bruh it wasn't fair, that guy had wayward compass. No wonder he got one of the highest spots.
well, thats everyone else’s loss
Im surprised they haven't banned fragile greed, Its to powerful in the pantheon of Gods!
@@ianfrankegordon4182 ... Sleeping on heavy blow?
@@minibandut8288 and gathering swarm
12:22 i had this happen two times in path of pain and screwed up. I was so mad thinking my switch just laged. Thank you I didnt know something like this can happen. And also thank you for this nice and interesting video.
Finally someone explains what cheaters actually cheat for. Doesn't make cheaters out to be these unsalvagable fakes that have never achieved anything prior or done anything special prior. Just explains the mindset and how things work.
He just copied what Karl Jobst said about cheaters
@@Aeviu bapanada
@@Aeviu banapada
Bapanada
@@ng42. Akala entono
Funny how he used the exact same excuse as dream. Lmfao
History sure does repeat itself, huh?
actually, cotton "accidentally" used cheats before dream
@@Name-qk5qr maybe that's where dream gets the idea lol
@@destheoren maybe
@@destheoren It's a text-book excuse. Neither of them came up with it first. People have been claiming "accidentally" doing using something that led to them getting an extremely unfair advantage over everyone else in competitions for as long as competitions have existed for.
I love the way he says the Chinese community is disappointed. You can be angry and I’ll get over it, but disappointed and I won’t forget
Fluke: spawns into him
Cotton: KING CRIMSON
There is a stereotype out there that Chinese players are known to cheat, especially in competitive games. Some bring up things like lifestyle where "if you aren't trying to win by any means necessary, you aren't trying at all" that supposedly is pervasive out there.
I feel like this video is an argument against that in a way. While cheating is present, the Chinese Hollow Knight community came forward and handled a cheating incident not unlike any other high profile western speedrunning community. It looks respectful and honorable to the game, while giving opportunities for the accused the gracefully admit error. It is unfortunate for how some of Cotton's reactions were not so good, but hopefully they can win back some trust in the future.
The language and culture may be a world away, but we're all still gamers in the end.
welcome to csgo
@@not.necros1s285 Oh oh god damn! I quite that game due to hackers man! Fuck! You just brought up some heavily repressed emotions just now.
You said exactly why people go by the stereotype. Not because we fail to see them as fellow human beings, but rather precisely because we know, as fellow human beings, how much influence peer pressure and tradition can exert on an individual.
And while it is sad that things go this way around the word, the cold truth is that no one os obligued to accept this kind of behavior, much less to enjoy or respect it.
So yeah, not thrusting someone no matter what because of their origins is xenophobic and irrational, but refusing to pay respects to unknown places of origin (specially ones with a bad history) is only logical. Blame the cheaters for that, not the outsiders. The only solution is to weed out the cheaters instead of demanding respect. And for that, I congratulate BlackMoon and The CN HK community.
Not gonna lie chief, never seen that stereotype (not saying it doesn't exist but damn i never knew)
As a Chinese, I'd say cheating in games isn't popular nor appreciated. Though cheaters are just a small ratio, the massive amount of players (due to the large population) results in "Chinese cheater" being everywhere. NOBODY likes cheaters!
Dude went through the 5 stages of grief :
He denied the thing in chat first and tried to immediatly claim his innocence using the debug excuse.
Then he started to become real angry because the top players still didn’t believe him.
He tried to bargain his way out by using other legit runs in comparison and by apologizing for his previous insults.
Radio silence, he removes his video for "reasons" and starts to defend himself less and less, this can be likened to the depression step.
Finally, he accepts his fate by first admitting tampering the flukemarm clip and then by publishing his apology letter.
may he become wiser
These 5 stages mind blow me every time, regardless of context. It's really shows how predictable humans are.
@@isaiahdahler8933 mind you, its not every human that go through like that.
there are people who when caught cheating, just went along and said "ok, i was cheating. if you need more proof, here it is."
its incredible that humans are predictable and unpredictable at the same time. some people il go through the 5 stages of grief, and some il simply fuck with you and skip all stages because yes.
@@clairelili873 if I got caught I'd say fuck it and admit to it, no need to let it drag out for ages just to be taken down anyways. I can't lie for shit anyways so I wouldn't even make it past the 1st phase lol
Wow he smart, better men up then dig deeper of a hole.
Honestly, the Chinese community is insanely talented. Like have you heard of their top player "TAS"? That guy is nuts.
Lmao
He’s like a machine
and they seem like a jack of all trades player, i mean I've seen them play almost any game and they show perfect gamesense and gameplay, they are the biggest god gamer
I haven't seen his videos personally but I heard he does perfect frame inputs!
It may be a coincidence but I know that in the game called trackmania TAS stands for "tool assisted speedrun"
Edit: thinking about this, that person may really using tas. Normally the people do that kind of runs do it to show or reach the theoretical perfect performance.
I very much appreciate how you handled this video. I've seen many a video covering a topic like this with a tiny disclaimer at the end that you shouldn't harass the accused individual, but it is important also to recognize the effects media can have on an entire portion of the world's perception on a single community based off of a single person's missteps, and addressing that there are many folks out there who have legitimate runs in the Chinese HK community.
I just wanted to pop on and say I appreciate your care to the impact this video does and can have, where it's rare to see so much thought put into these kinds of things. Keep up the good work
he just used Wayward Compass, don’t get mad
Lmao
@BLVGaming / Y1000 that or it messed up boss tags for enemy tags that or he cheated and swaped the tags
@BLVGaming / Y1000 oh thanks for clearing it
I’m a gamer from China and I can sorta confirm that “shitty” phrase can be borderline be referring to that streamer at around 10:50 mark. But with that context it’s so hard to not think that he’s insulting the game and the whole community.
Thanks for the verification if that wasn't the case though I'm not fussed I had fun with the game.
The game is bad and the community is delusional and completely oblivious to its faults. They’re blinded by its art and music and just ignore the ridiculous design choices
@@zzodysseuszz idk, games pretty cool
@@johnhoss2247 yeah but it’s filled with issues that aren’t small and the fans just refuse to acknowledge it has any issues
@@zzodysseuszz such as
Cotton's apology was basically just him saying he was sorry he got caught.
Or a “I’m sorry you feel that way”
That's with most cheater apologies
"No matter how others perceive it, what matters is that you know how hard you pushed yourself to achieve your success. No amount of external recognition can replace that."
Seriously awesome life advice from my boy Fire.
Ohhh, this gonna be good
Orion cosa ci fai qui? 😂
Ok
MA AHAHAHAHAHAHAH, tra l'altro devi sapere che il tizio che l'ha spottato è italiano
Perché ti trovi qui?
La community di HK italiana è piccola ma è sempre bello vederla 🇮🇹
I'm sorry, bro took damage in FLUKEMARM!?
Hot take, on my first playthrough of it that was one of the hardest bosses for me. Something about the swervy pathing fucked me up bad.
@@SethB420 the swervy patching of what? The little flying mouths? I mean all you gotta do is this get them in the up spell too and you're chillin
@@calumbarry1829 yeah, that was the issue. I went fully blind into my first playthrough, spells included, and i ended up almost never using that one. Still regret the amount of time i coulda saved if i knew how good it was.
I pretty much hid under the bottom left platform and smacked it in between spawns
Yeah, it's embarassing. This dude did hitless absolute radiance, but FLUKEMARM is one of the reason why he had to use to this mod lol.
Well, I just couldn’t defeat it the first time I tried, so I left and returned when I was better
Dream: I did not know i was cheating
Cotton: I did not know i was cheating
@@Jmathington Cotton: Well I didn't actually left it on by accident
Dream: I defo left it on by accident y'all just want clout
@@juanin200 "by accident"
hires an 'astrophysicist' before checking his mod folder 💀
@@poisonedmaple6874ngl i trust dream lol. He didnt do it intentionally
3:15 wayward compass being the only thing bolded gets a good chuckle out of me
Damn he apologized and admitted his faults and stated his regrets, letting all his fans know what he did. Instead of hiring an anonymous astrophysicist from fiverr to legitimize his “work.”
@@Arkansym are u ok
@@Arkansym Does Dream pay you to try to trick people into believing falsehoods about statistical improbabilities, or are you just that much of an obsessed white knight fanboy?
Getting struck by lightning 3 times during your lifetime is 50 million times more likely to happen than getting the odds Dream had during his speedruns, it's practically impossible.
@@Arkansym There is plenty to prove him wrong. No proof is ever 100.00% undeniably correct, 99.99% (or in Dream's case 99.99999999%) is enough. Even with Dream's own numbers, he is more likely to be struck by lightning than anyone in the entire world is to ever achieve the luck he got in those speedruns (not to mention how lucky he would have to be to have that person be him and not someone else). That's called proof.
As for the garbled garbage of paragraphs about math not being developed enough etc, please take your psuedo-intellectual nonsense elsewhere. You're not being deep, or clever. There is hard evidence but it requires an understanding of how math works, which you seem to lack.
I am sorry for my slanderous comment though, I will retract it and apologize. I see now that you are not trying to be deceptive or fool anyone in any way, but rather that you somehow genuinely believe in your own psuedo-scientific garbage.
@@Arkansym You can infer very strongly that Dream cheated. Even though it's nearly impossible to prove he altered the chances RNG provides, it's more than reasonable to assume the six stream lucky streak was impossible and therefore manipulated.
He got higher drop rates for items that were at a fixed rate, then got more lucky rates on items that can barely be farmed reliably over time. That's the proof. It has nothing to do with weather phenomenon, the lottery, or anything of that sort when reaching for a conclusion that isn't supported by clear circumstantial evidence.
@@Arkansym dream stan lmao, shut up
About how many times did this dude "forget" to turn his cheats off lol
probably every fucking time he plays the game
How many times did he have to test something with invicibilty?
Pov: You`re trying to find crying Dream stans
Listen man don't call me out like that
@@iamtheplague5879 o_o
Nooooo👀
Shut!!
@@szeetunio3216 come on dude don't summon me like that or else I'll send you death threats
/s
Excellently done video. Very thorough analysis.
I personally am perfectly satisfied with beating p5 without dying. But I can understand how cheating in a "hitless run" would be very frustrating to see for people who work hard to do it honestly.
It's important these people are exposed to keep gaming alive for all of us.
He wasn’t cheating in the Flukmarm fight, he just used 「King Crimson」
was it a fun google search to get「those」
「no」
「Cool」
I love this comment so much that I had David Productions’ sound and image effects play in my head when I read it.
iS tHaT A jOjO rEfReNcE
lizz with that nickname LOL
lmao
"Damn that shit be crazy lol" - George Washington, professional hollowknight speedrunner, 1755.
Don't quote him on this. It has come out that George used Wayward Compass's invincible powers to speedrun P5 without putting it on his list of charms.
"You coward George you had wayward compass" Abraham Lincoln vampire slayer
I can never understand how someone can be proud of themselves after successfully cheating on something very difficult anyway. There is an amazing feeling from doing something difficult (especially on hk for me lol) that means the reason I push myself isn’t to impress others, it’s to simply become a better player, legitimately. Insert shameless channel plug here
It reminds me of how I felt after I finally beat Nightmare King Grimm. I had beenputting in about 10-15 attempts at it on and off for about 6 months. I would go at it for a few days, lose hop, give up for a while, and then come back ina few weeks and try again. Rinse and repeat. It was extremely disheartening at some points because I would get to phase 2 of the fight and then immediately die, and then be stuck on phase 1 for weeks.
One day last month, I sat down and said to myself "you don't get to play any other games until that vampire-ass motherfucker is dead." So I started grinding out attempts. To make it more fun, I decided everytime I died I would take a sip of my drink and see how fast I could get drunk (the answer is FAST.) It was a brutal process. I would do several attempts and not even make it past phase one, and then after dozens of attempts I was able to make it to phase 2 with some consistency. I had started to get ared on his moves; kniowing which ones would give me an opportunity to heal, which ones would best fto use Shriek of Fireball on, which ones would be good for getting a lot of slashes in, and knowing there were some moves where attacking was forbidden and that I had to use my dash at the exact right moments.
I only ever made it to phase 3 twice. The first time I was so excited I immediately got distracted and died lol. The 2nd time well, that, as they say, is history. I remember waves of ecstacy and joy and relief washed over my body at the realization that I didn't need to fight this guy ever again and, subsequently, that I would never have to equip Grimmchild ever again.
And then I remembered P5.
Does cotton also wear a mask with a smile for hours at a time?
He needs help he’s failing all his classes, might need glasses and some normal pills
@@r35ct12 because that is indeed what the point of the mask is
@@kreatona4219 and all they can ask is
why are you so sad kid
@@terrizoop3739
Sadly and undeniably, you can see hes trying
Omori..
i know a physicist from harvard so if anyone needs him i can hook you up
y
you also got a mathmatition from harvard to calculate the movement from every sprite?
lmfao
@@danielwan2410 cuz it's what dream used to hide his cheating
@@ShugoAWay I have to say, why would he cheat though, it's said that he was practicing on stream and just so happen to get a record. (also please don't flame me.)
the funniest thing about “forgetting” about cheats is that dream did the same thing and basically got away with it.
That's because Dream is a popular youtuber with a rabid fanbase that is willing to forgive and defend him even if he committed murder and claimed it was an "accident"
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 Or most of his fanbase just don't give a shit and just like him for his videos/dsmp. Cheating in a speedrun, denying it for 7 months, and then giving a half-assed apology is scummy, but it's hardly a big enough deal to warrant trying to cancel him or refusing to support him/watch his videos
I'm not sure how he got away with it. He was banned from the leaderboards and still is afaik
@@pey5571 when looking deeper into it, dreams story makes more sense than if dream had intentionaly cheeted. ether dream is the WORST CHEETER EVER or he did not intentionaly cheet. the mods asked him for his mod forlder. any sane cheeter would provide a fake mod folder. the mods even said he could just list the mods that where in his folder but he decided to tell people that he deleated his folder and forgot what was in it. also dream's brand is not built arround speedruns. at this point he is speedruning becuase he wants to, not becuase he is getting massive attention from it. though how dream acted at some points was immature. i wonder if dream's brain has matured yet
Except he didn't get away with it? He was banned from the leaderboards and a lot of people hate him for it, how in any way is that getting away with it??
13:55 this is summed up by a brilliant quote from the youtube videogame journalist Karl Jobst- cheaters often _don't_ cheat to get a "faster time", they cheat to get a time _faster_.
It's a fascinaing phenomenon, the most skilled players are also the ones most susceptible to cheating, because they believe their hard work is deserving of the reward they are looking for