DC's "Guardians of the Status Quo" basically. They're telling you to just accept how shit things are and don't for the life of you try to change anything.
@@marumae There is a thing that people telling stories sometimes do, which is to take a reasonable message ("dwelling on the past can be bad for you") and then undermine it massively with the core premises of the story they actually tell. For example, X-Men fail as a metaphor for various groups that would like to have civil rights, because if there were a minority that actually had plasma cannons for nipples, it would be pretty reasonable to be scared of them, on account of the plasma cannons.
I find it fascinating that this film and Across the Spiderverse come to the opposite conclusions on how superheroes should react to time travel and canon events. I'm with Miles on this one.
It’s just… literally conservatism vs progressive attitudes to politics. Do we shut up and take our horrible past because that’s how it’s gotta be or do we attempt to change it for the better. Is the attempt to make things better potentially fruitful or necessarily the cause of even more suffering than the status quo already brings
We don't know for shure how Miles' story is going to end, tho...I mean, it looks like that's the take the creators are supporting, but we don't know for shure yet.
The cartoon was better as Flash going back in time made everything worse; since the Amazons and Atlantians were now at war, and millions were about to die. You can't say "change the past" when the new future is much worse for everyone, including Flash.
Reason DCAU is better than DCEU. They met an alternate timeline Batman and were going to go back and change things Superman: "You understand if we go back, you, this version of you might never exist" Batman: "Nothing would make me happier" Because Batman hates being Batman. His whole origin and motivation is wanting to stop anyone else from going through what he did. He should be the MOST sympathetic to wanting to stop the tragic backstory.
I feel like the proper message this movie should be going for is something like “you have to accept what has happened and move on, if you dwell in the past and keep hoping you can change it, you’ll never get anywhere” but it sounds like they horribly miscalculated that idea and the fact that Spiderverse exists and just had the message of “fuck you why should I have to suffer just because that’s what you think is ‘supposed’ to happen” is really funny
I’d still say that Miguel was right. But that’s what makes Spider-Verse interesting. It’s the trolly problem on a cosmic scale. Miguel, Jessica, Gwen and Peter (all of them) were correct morally but you understand Miles emotionally.
@The Duke of Chutney I'm not sure Miguel was right. Earth 47 never got its Spider-Man. Hard to imagine a bigger violation of canon than that, yet Earth 47 is still there. This Canon theory seems to be flawed in a "correlation is not causation" kind of way. It's a big world(s) with a lot happening at once at any given moment. But the thing that all Spider-People have in common besides webbing is that they have their heads at least partially up their own butts when it comes to their personal dramas. So what they notice going on when a dimensional anomaly happens is how much or little what goes on resembles their own lives.
@@thedukeofchutney468hard to say Miguel was right. There’s theories now that he’s more sinister than we think. Plus I think Spider-Punk was made to represent the message of the film
So basically, the message of this film is a Jordan Peterson video. "Don't get involved in politics, don't try to change the world, don't vote. Go home and stay in your room."
The only person I feel bad for is Sasha Calle. She's clearly got some talent and if this would be a star-making role if it wasn't buried under the weight of studio expectations, studio desperation, the controversy of this film's star being an actual criminal, the fact that nobody actually wanted this movie, and the fact that it's just not good.
@@johnathonhaney8291 I feel bad for both of them. Sure Batgirl could have made her a star, but having a side role in a subpar movie that's the last gasp in a universe that's about to fail isn't going to be much better. It's marginally better in that people will actually see her, but she's still only getting 20 minutes of screen time when it was probably pitched as her being a new reoccurring star in a bigger universe the same was Batgirl was.
This movie is the kind that genuinely bothers me a lot- really solid, maybe even great, in most spots, but with one or two big, unignorable issues that drag the whole thing down and make it so you can’t wholeheartedly recommend it.
@@thedukeofchutney468 One is the fan service, especially in the third act. It's so egregious and out of place that it actively ruins the movie's climax. The other is the CGI, which is absolutely the worst VFX I've ever seen in a movie relative to its budget, profile, and year of release. It's downright inexcusable that the movie was released with the CG in the state it's in.
I always felt the whole "DON'T CHANGE THE PAST FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT!" moral of this film/Flashpoint to be a bit hypocritical considering the only reason Barry Allen exists now is because Geoff Johns changed the past for his own benefit
It's why I've no faith in Gunn's reboot. Zaslav has made enough dumb/ugly moves that show him to be a tone deaf micromanager who will kneecap Gunn within three projects.
"Trying to go back and redoing things will just make everything worse" says the movie from a genre that reboots their franchises every decade based on comics where the reboots are increasing in frequency to the point where I expect they'll start overwriting each other soon and we'll end up with Crisis of Infinite Crises.
This really underlines what I don't like about time travel stories in general, as the underlying subtext of many of them amounts to 'don't try to change things, respect the status quo!' Which is the most tired, conservative talking point I can imagine.
Back to the Future isn’t really about time travel. It’s about what it would be like to go to school with your parents, that just needed time travel in order for it to happen. Marty never intended to make his life better when he went back in time and changed things. Once he changed things he was working with Doc to put things back the way they were, and for the most part he did that. The slightly better life he has when he returns to 1985 is just a side effect of HOW things happened.
Marty's intentions are what make the future better, though. He encourages his dad to get some self esteem, embrace the art he wants to make, and look out for the people he cares about. And by doing that, his dad changes from a cowardly self-hating butt of the joke to a loving, confident, generous person who draws other people to him. If Marty had just focused purely on getting the same events to happen, nothing would have improved.
Did you know that they made two (IMO superior) sequels that aren't about that at all? And did you forget that Marty did actively try to change the future by giving Doc a note about his death. Which works out splendidly.
@@SBJ_Tubemarty's intentions are totally to change the future in any of the sequels. In the second movie, it's to keep his kids out of jail as the mcguffin. when he decides to use the time machine for personal gain, doc scolds him and biff beats him to the punch and Not only that, but Marty learns not to put much stock in what others say. The whole rest of that movie is trying to set that mistake right and when three rolls around it's about saving doc from biff's ancestor and then again by avoiding a crash that would ruin his life. That is what the entire trilogy is about the future being in your hands. You have the power to change it. I feel it wouldn't be as resonate if it came down on the "no suffer, the future will always suck"
@@darkmyro I think a lot of people forget about the true message in the final movie. Doc, the guy who was always talking about not altering the timeline due to dire consequences, basically says just because you can travel to THE future, doesn't mean it's YOUR future. That no matter what, YOUR future hasn't been written yet. That's a profoundly powerful message to send. Especially since it basically says all the "rules" the movies had established up to that point were wrong and based on false assumptions.
So, the problem with this Flashpoint adaptation is the entire message of Flashpoint. Which is something I’ve been saying about Flashpoint since that story came out.
It reminds me of all the older tradesmen at work who keep saying I don't know what 'REAL CONSTRUCTION' is because I wear safety gear and has yet to lose a finger. Like if they went back in time and didn't hurt themselves they would lose all their skills. Like their skills didn't come from decades of experience and actually all come from that time they hurt themselves. Those guys would love the message of this movie.
Yeah, FLashpoint needs to never come up again, and for that matter we should get rid of FLash Rebirth as well because making Barry yet another superhero with a tragic childhood just sucks.
Thanks for acknowledging how reasonable it is to boycott this movie. I won’t be seeing it, but everyone acts like doing so is almost offensive to anyone else who participated in this movie. Also you’re the second reviewer to say it’s just okay. I feel like some people were so happy the DCEU produced a decent movie that is was being hyped as one of the best super hero movies ever.
I think if you boycott it then that makes sense, but I also think if you want to see it then that’s chill too. Personally I’m fine with seeing it as I know hundreds of people worked on this thing and I wouldn’t want to let one man ruin it. But I also completely understand not feeling comfortable watching it. I think everyone needs to calm down and just let people come their own conclusions.
Saying THE FLASH has a nihilistic "don't change things" message is giving it too much credit. The message as I understood it was: "Don't change the past too much, or else aliens will invade and kill everyone. Just change it enough that your dad has a good alibi for your mom's murder."
Between this, Nolan Batman, Man of Steel, Picard season 3, It becomes extremely apparent that if you don't consider the moral implications of your script, they can very easily imply wildly f***** up things that you may have not intended. Like, It's true that no story needs a moral but wild. How often disregarding the moral of your story ends up providing a broken one anyway .
The DCEU has now become s thought experiment in what could have been if Uncle Ben had been an absolute asshole and imparted exactly the opposite moral onto the universe's seminal hero...
What has there ever been truly to love about it? Used to, I didn't mind but now...well, another piece of evidence on why Warner Bros burned itself to the ground.
Wow, Bob! First of all, THANK YOU for being one of the people who does NOT think that nihilism is the hottest new thing that just everybody should be into right now! I could go on about how I think a lot of people are getting the wrong idea about nihilism these days but I'll spare you. That having been said, I think you may have misfired with this one because while I was beginning to think that this was actually going to turn out to be a fun watch despite its lead actor, you've managed to convince me - despite your negative overall appraisal - that something fascinating is going on here and now I just have to see this movie so I can figure it out for myself! How many other people will feel the same way? I guess we'll find out this weekend! Regardless, THANKS for being you! I wouldn't have it any other way!
I can't remember which video it was, but you definitely made a "How I would do a Justice League movie" video a long time ago, and one of your ideas was to have a scene with CGI Christopher Reeves in it.
"Cheers to the death of the Snyderverse" makes me curious to see it, but I think boycotting and making a loud stink over Miller being kept on is the better play in the long term.
@@lapislazuli5035 I'd argue it started meh, turned into a train wreck, then ended meh. This first and last film of the DCEU are far from the worst. Nahhh the worst titles go to bvs, wonderwoman 2, suicide squat lol.
In the end, this film sounds like it bookends rather nicely with Man of Steel. Both are far from bad per se but they blow so much of the subtext that people come away from it repulsed on the moral level. And the filmmakers are completely unaware of how bad they're blowing it.
its funny, for years i always hated the "should i let them die" scene in MoS. and it genuinely soured the character for me. as from that point on, we can see that he lost that feeling. didnt help that he then let his father die soon after in the most idiotic way possible. now, after across the spiderverse, i can finally understand why that scene rubbed me so wrong. in across, when miles is confronted with both(the question of should he let people die for the greater good and if he should do something to save his father), not only does it happen BEFORE it, but we can see miles coming with his own answer. as opposed to just eat it up and accept it as fate. if anything, he goes on to push back, and in doing so, he not only realize what it means to be a hero, but also manages to sway others who did fall for the trappings of what a hero is "supposed to be".
I have every intention of skipping The Flash, however, a situation has presented itself where I can watch it as a double feature, at one of the oldest drive-ins in the country with Across the Spiderverse. Which my kids have been dying to see, and more than likely my kids would probably like this movie because they’re so far removed from anything Ezra miller related they don’t know what’s going on. So begrudgingly I may wind up having to watch this.
Showcasing a character finding out a power they already knew since the last movie they were in is just so fucking DCEU I laughed out loud when you pointed it out. This the the perfect DC juice right there.
He actually never found it out in the Theatrical Cut, which this movie reminded me of more than anything else. Definitely has a closer tone than anything Snyder did.
What's there to review? It's another Pixar movie, it's another "Racism Bad" movie using fictional cultures. If you like Pixar, you're going to see it anyway; if you don't like Pixar, you aren't. And there's no point making a review for it because there's not enough discourse around the film to generated the internet traffic that would warrant Bob dedicating time editing a video to give his two cents on it.
I did find it kind of odd that the thing that made Dark Flash a villain is basically the thing that makes Miles Morales in Across the Spider-verse the hero. Or maybe more accurately what made Miguel O'Hara the villain in Spider-verse is played as heroic in The Flash.
I feel like that’s a fundamental misread of both movies. ATSV is about self-actualization in the face of predetermined narratives. The Flash is about accepting your past traumas and learning how to move past your grief to experience what life has to offer. ATSV is the vastly superior movie, but The Flash is a very different story.
True. I was talking about the movie with my wife and I referenced Star Trek V where Kirk doesn't want Sybok to take his pain away because it defines him and has made him the man he is. Though what made one character a villain in one movie made the other the hero in the other, the reasoning behind it makes sense. In Flash trauma and loss may be painful but help you grow and in Spider-verse what makes Miles the hero is not giving in to fate but pressing on even when told it is inevitable.
Regardless of anything, i will not watch this movie, because i just do not care. However, a supergirl movie sounds legit interesting, and since this actress sounds like she did a good job, i'd be more than happy to watch a movie about her instead, if they ever make it. Hi Bob 👋
I mean, I thought the film was a bit of mess as well, but saying that it's some sort of conservative rebuttal to other progressive films out there seems a hell of a stretch to me. Considering how the film ends, it's not saying that trying to change the past is bad, just that you need to consider there might be unintended consequences to a change; the same time travel warning that movies like 'The Butterfly Effect' or 'About Time' pointed out years ago. On top of that, what does bringing up 'Loki' and 'Across the Spider-Verse''s similar recent takes prove? Surely you wouldn't want all media about time travel to be the same thing each time? I don't even buy the idea that some things are impossible to fix in a timeline, but I can accept the idea that getting a specific outcome at a specific moment in time (which is what Barry is trying to do by the end) and not accepting any compromises might be. Imagine a scenario where someone travels back to 1939 to try and stop World War II from happening, and he can't go back any further without messing with the circumstances that led to his own birth. Preventing World War II isn't impossible for a time traveller, but it would seem like it if you started changing things as late as 1939...
The Flash? I thought it was called Batman Returns Again. That's certainly what the posters I've seen for it make it look like. I will be seeing this tonight. As such, I'll be closing the video after I post this comment as I try not to listen to reviews beforehand. I do really appreciate the preamble at the start, as that is what I want to address. For me, Ezra/Flash is the least interesting thing in the movie. I'm actually much more interested in Keaton and Kara. I'm really going because I like movies, and comic movies in particular. As such, I'm kind of the go-to for my circle of friends to decide if a movie is worth seeing, let alone spend money on.
I didn't hate it, but I also don't feel the need to see it again. It's pretty much the definition of meh. I also thought Flash was the least interesting character. Please more Sasha Calle in that role, though.
I've reached the "DC just wants to do Batman movies" conclusion years ago but for some reason, it hasn't occurred to DC yet. But with multiple Batman movies, villain movies and enough animated tie ins to make Sony sweat, they are acting like it.
Just found out about the scene where The Flash puts a CGI baby in a microwave... and there are people out there saying this is better than Across the Spiderverse or Guardians 3? Tell me this is a joke.
You know it's funny because when it comes to time travel I like having the static past that cannot change for a variety of reasons, but it's amazing how story framing is everything. Because when I think static past I think "I can't change this but I can choose what I do from here." so to have a movie that's "You can't change anything deal with it." just seems like such a downer and an easy misstep to avoid. I almost have a little curiosity to rent this when it comes out.
a better story would use the fact its a static event that must remain untouched, or one that will auto correct itself to remain true to tell a compeling story.
"You can't change anything deal with it" is not good, but that's not this movie either. This movie is "supervillains can change your past and kill your mom whenever they want, and if you try to stop them you'll only make it worse". Flashpoint is the quintessential 'superheroes are useless' story.
The Flash didn't go back in time in the original DCEU Justice League movie. And the Snyder Cut isn't canon to the DCEU. So no, he didn't forget about going back in time because he never went back in time.
I have no problem with people boycotting this movie. I want to see Michael Keaton as Batman again - and I feel that's worth a movie ticket. But I'm glad there are people boycotting because Ezra Miller does not deserve to be the Flash. Have you seen how Ezra Miller runs as the Flash? it's as if they don't know how to run. Oh yeah and the criminal stuff that's pretty awful.
I feel the CW has done everything interesting that there was to do with the Flash so this movie would have had an up-hill struggle to be worth seeing even if it didn't have a scummy star and mess of a production.
@@johnathonhaney8291 Worse than 84? Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Worse than 84 _in that specific aspect? _*_That_* would be a monumental accomplishment in failure.
@@johnathonhaney8291 "Taking a superhero created by a radical-for-their-time feminist for the distinct purpose of teaching kids to get woke about women's rights (kinda), and having her possibly sexually assaulting someone in an era where sexual assault is considered by most feminists to be the worst, most unspeakable act of evil a human being could possibly commit" is a tough act to follow in the business of "catastrophically offensive fuckup that's *fundamentally antithetical* to the character/series you're working with"
I wanted to like this movie but have to say, it's mediocre at best. Ezra Miller was unbearable and there's 2 of them! Batman and Supergirl are great but it's not enough to save this movie.
A movie that, on it's own, is average in quality, but has so many weird stuff both in it and surrounding it that it's ultimately going to overshadow the movie itself. Was it really worth it to get to this point? ...Well, so long as we can just move past everything from the past decade and finally move on to *hopefully* something better...
Spoilers I’m glad I’d forgotten half the rumours I’d heard about it because when they were doing the multiverse bats and supes montage I got to have that dawning moment of “when was Superman on another planet? Are they doing an animated universe nod? Wait, giant spider? OMG, they didn’t! They did! PS2 Nick Cage lives!”
* glances outside my bubble to the raging dumpster fire of the last few years * Yeah no, trauma didn't make it stronger, it just burned me out and gave me new neuroses. I'll take the MCU's corporate branded optimism, thanks.
Not for nothing, but I just saw The Flash and I swear there's an early scene where they say a brief time-traveling event by Barry was 'like (whatever the city was called in Justice League),' and it's referenced by both of them. So I think they do acknowledge it? Maybe it was something else.
Every since the comics bought Barry Allen back in the 2000’s, he has mostly been used as a plot point/macguffin to kick off their never ending series of crossovers and reboots. This seems more of the same.
"Just another _Black Adam."_ Ooh. Ouch. Interesting that the point of Flashpoint is that you can't change fate without only ever always making things worse, while the point of Spider-Verse is the hero's refusal to accept fate usually works out pretty well for them.
Except it wasn't even fate in Flashpoint. It was a time-travelling supervillain. The message of Flashpoint is that trying to stop supervillains will only make things worse.
The post credit scene read like a remnant of a time when the movie was supposed to be a softer reboot of DCEU continuity, probably meant to suggest that some but not all the DCEU movies have been erased from canon. But if they are recasting literally everyone, that makes the post credits scene and the entire movie essentially pointless
@@TheJadedJames Oh. I thought it was a joke about Clooney showing up. I mean, we kinda guessed that the film was pointless already. We're just waiting for the second "Aquaman" film and "Blue Beetle", and we are going a different direction after 2024. Anyway, thank you for the explanation!
I don’t understand how the F Flash going back in time changes Ben Affleck and Gotham to the burtonverse. I am not nostalgic for some geezer playing Batman when we could’ve gotten Flashpoint Batman. I am just glad the POS Snyderverse is finally over, good riddance
I think it is very funny the first people who signed on to direct the flash were... lord & miller, i feel like they still used some of their draft lol.
I’m seeing it on Friday but the fact that it’s this much of a thematic hodgepodge means it’s at least gonna be interesting to see it play out. From what you’re saying, it feels like they wanted the emotional thru-line of the Flashpoint arc in the comics about obsessing over past trauma to the point where you’re willing to let everything and everybody around you go to hell because of it being a bad thing but it sounds like they completely fumbled the execution (not saying the original arc was perfect by any means but at least on that front it was coherent. And it at least offered an avenue to explore some fun alternate universe concepts through that like Thomas Wayne Batman, public hero Captain Cold, evil Aquaman/Wonder Woman, Abin Sur living etc.)
He's already been paid, brother, and he's already likely being courted to keep playing Flash again. I don't like him as a person, if the allegations are true, but you paying for a cinema pass instead of a ticket isn't gonna take a single cent from him.
Saw the preview before Guardians 3 and Michael Keaton + lady Superman almost tempted me to check it out. Thanks for the reality check. I gathered that the comic Flashpoint came to a similar conclusion, but yeah, it's really fucking dour and defeatist when compared to Spiderverse, Back to the Future, the MCU, Frequency, Happy Death Day 1+2, even Rick+Morty, and so many other stories dealing with timelines/multiverse shenanigans (maybe not The Butterfly Effect). And the whole "shut up, Zoomers, trauma builds character!" subtext feels even grosser right now. There will be scene compilations somewhere down the line, I'm not giving this money.
It's from the final scene of There Will Be Blood. The guy sitting in the bowling alley, looking at the wreck he made of his life, declares "I'm finished." Such is Mr. Chipman's attitude towards DCEU.
If this movie didn't have that criminal groomer in it, and Pixar's Elemental wasn't coming out on the same day, I would have TOTALLY seen this in theaters!
Wow. What an incredibly unpleasant movie with a revolting premise that looks sparkly and whose movie posters made me think it was a Batman film. Bob, thank you for watching this so I know it's out there and can stay far away.
I could honestly see this as a blueprint to make your own movies in defiance to edgelord bleakness. Also; I could very well see that Supergirl actress as Power Girl or an action star in her own right.
boobs not big enough. joking aside, i would have no problem if she were to carry the mantle of "super" for a couple of movies, she does have the charisma, to be fair, i do feel like Cavil is very charismatic, it just sucks that he got stuck with the worst possible adaptation, done by the most edgelord superman haters who wanted him to be batman instead.
It’s was very VERY clear the bad guy was (spoiler). I could tell because I’ve seen a movie before. They could afford to be a little more unpredictable in a movie like this.
Read my mind on that last scene! Wich was clearly a big "F### you" to the Snyderverse and all those uber nerds who take this sh## way too seriously! There's no way that wasn't James Gunn's idea! I like the guy more and more! But yeah! Still pretty generic. The movie, I mean.
The most awkward thinga bout the moviee is that Ezras performance is the best thing about it. All the fan service stuff is so forced and unearned that it just falls flat. Even worse is that this film seemed to need to happen as it was meant to reset the timeline for the new DCU ...and it doesnt, leaving the whole thing more of a mess then it was before the film.
I've always found that the principle failing of the Flashpoint storyline and its myriad adaptations is how it has no grasp on the basic premise of cause-and-effect. There's never any logic behind what changes and why, so it all feels entirely arbitrary. That's not how you write compelling speculative fiction.
It fails as speculative fiction but as a comic story at least it kinda worked for me - it was a decent story with some emotionally resonant moments, it remixes stuff that readers will get a kick out of, and it achieved what it set out to do.
I feel the Justice League: The Nail gets the principle slightly better (“oh in a world with no Superman being a big symbol of truth and hope more pressure is put on Wonder Woman to be that” etc) but even that takes a turn for the wacky with the ending
Seriously! How dies Barrys mom not being murdered lead to the Kents not finding Clark and his being imprisoned in a bunker? -something that, based on their typical ages, happened BEFORE Barrys mom was murdered
Sasha Calle was the best thing about this movie, bring her back as often as she wants. I hope Michael Keaton got a big fat paycheck. Did Ezra Miller just watch a marathon of Pauly Shore movies to play younger even MORE annoying Barry?
It is kinda funny for "don't go back and rewrite things, it'll just suck" to be the moral of a story that was rewritten 20 times and then sucked.
DC's "Guardians of the Status Quo" basically.
They're telling you to just accept how shit things are and don't for the life of you try to change anything.
We need a GIF of Kenneth Branagh from Much Ado About Nothing saying "There's a double meaning in that."
@@marumae There is a thing that people telling stories sometimes do, which is to take a reasonable message ("dwelling on the past can be bad for you") and then undermine it massively with the core premises of the story they actually tell.
For example, X-Men fail as a metaphor for various groups that would like to have civil rights, because if there were a minority that actually had plasma cannons for nipples, it would be pretty reasonable to be scared of them, on account of the plasma cannons.
And apparently they're using this movie to wipe the slate clean.
Well, there you go.
I find it fascinating that this film and Across the Spiderverse come to the opposite conclusions on how superheroes should react to time travel and canon events. I'm with Miles on this one.
It’s just… literally conservatism vs progressive attitudes to politics. Do we shut up and take our horrible past because that’s how it’s gotta be or do we attempt to change it for the better. Is the attempt to make things better potentially fruitful or necessarily the cause of even more suffering than the status quo already brings
Indeed: "Nah, I'm gonna do my own thing" rules. Miles is a fantastic character.
We don't know for shure how Miles' story is going to end, tho...I mean, it looks like that's the take the creators are supporting, but we don't know for shure yet.
The cartoon was better as Flash going back in time made everything worse; since the Amazons and Atlantians were now at war, and millions were about to die. You can't say "change the past" when the new future is much worse for everyone, including Flash.
That was my exact thought too hearing this review 👍
Reason DCAU is better than DCEU. They met an alternate timeline Batman and were going to go back and change things
Superman: "You understand if we go back, you, this version of you might never exist"
Batman: "Nothing would make me happier"
Because Batman hates being Batman. His whole origin and motivation is wanting to stop anyone else from going through what he did. He should be the MOST sympathetic to wanting to stop the tragic backstory.
That was a great episode.
I feel like the proper message this movie should be going for is something like “you have to accept what has happened and move on, if you dwell in the past and keep hoping you can change it, you’ll never get anywhere” but it sounds like they horribly miscalculated that idea and the fact that Spiderverse exists and just had the message of “fuck you why should I have to suffer just because that’s what you think is ‘supposed’ to happen” is really funny
So like Lightyear ?
I’d still say that Miguel was right. But that’s what makes Spider-Verse interesting. It’s the trolly problem on a cosmic scale. Miguel, Jessica, Gwen and Peter (all of them) were correct morally but you understand Miles emotionally.
@The Duke of Chutney I'm not sure Miguel was right. Earth 47 never got its Spider-Man. Hard to imagine a bigger violation of canon than that, yet Earth 47 is still there. This Canon theory seems to be flawed in a "correlation is not causation" kind of way. It's a big world(s) with a lot happening at once at any given moment.
But the thing that all Spider-People have in common besides webbing is that they have their heads at least partially up their own butts when it comes to their personal dramas. So what they notice going on when a dimensional anomaly happens is how much or little what goes on resembles their own lives.
@@thedukeofchutney468hard to say Miguel was right. There’s theories now that he’s more sinister than we think. Plus I think Spider-Punk was made to represent the message of the film
So… Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3?
So… it’s what if Batman were Miguel O’Hara from Across the Spiderverse, but he’s right?
Gwah?
So basically, the message of this film is a Jordan Peterson video.
"Don't get involved in politics, don't try to change the world, don't vote. Go home and stay in your room."
No, that's Joe Biden send his BLM troops to flyover country to scare people into not reelecting Trump.
That... isn't the message. Barry Allen carries on as a superhero, risking his life to help others.
"A fitting epitaph for the DCEU that will be Barry'd under the rest of it." ❤
The only person I feel bad for is Sasha Calle.
She's clearly got some talent and if this would be a star-making role if it wasn't buried under the weight of studio expectations, studio desperation, the controversy of this film's star being an actual criminal, the fact that nobody actually wanted this movie, and the fact that it's just not good.
At least she got to appear. I feel worse for Leslie Grace, whose Batgirl was totally wiped from existence.
Honestly, her role is minor and she was lucky to even get it because nothing about her says Supergirl
She is literally the only reason I want to see this film.
@@BaithNa What a stupid comment. She punches a rocket but yeah, that's not super lolz
@@johnathonhaney8291 I feel bad for both of them. Sure Batgirl could have made her a star, but having a side role in a subpar movie that's the last gasp in a universe that's about to fail isn't going to be much better. It's marginally better in that people will actually see her, but she's still only getting 20 minutes of screen time when it was probably pitched as her being a new reoccurring star in a bigger universe the same was Batgirl was.
This movie is the kind that genuinely bothers me a lot- really solid, maybe even great, in most spots, but with one or two big, unignorable issues that drag the whole thing down and make it so you can’t wholeheartedly recommend it.
May I ask what those two flavoring issues were? I don’t care about spoilers.
@@thedukeofchutney468 Is one of them Ezra Miller and the other one how because of Ezra Miller we are not likely to have a Keaton Batman again?
@@thedukeofchutney468 One is the fan service, especially in the third act. It's so egregious and out of place that it actively ruins the movie's climax.
The other is the CGI, which is absolutely the worst VFX I've ever seen in a movie relative to its budget, profile, and year of release. It's downright inexcusable that the movie was released with the CG in the state it's in.
@@dudere lol i was thinking this until he plot twisted lol i love internet forums.
I always felt the whole "DON'T CHANGE THE PAST FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT!" moral of this film/Flashpoint to be a bit hypocritical considering the only reason Barry Allen exists now is because Geoff Johns changed the past for his own benefit
Also, it was not "Don't change the past for your benefit".
It was "don't try to stop somebody else from changeing the past by killing your mom."
Seems to be a running theme with Geoff “never met a retcon I didn’t like” Johns.
Oh, "this movie is the best one" PR stunt the WB did while burning Batgirl and releasing Velma was bs?
No way. /Sarcasm
It's why I've no faith in Gunn's reboot. Zaslav has made enough dumb/ugly moves that show him to be a tone deaf micromanager who will kneecap Gunn within three projects.
For all of the delays, actor controversies and constant script and director changes, the fact that it's not a dumpster fire is kind of remarkable.
"Trying to go back and redoing things will just make everything worse" says the movie from a genre that reboots their franchises every decade based on comics where the reboots are increasing in frequency to the point where I expect they'll start overwriting each other soon and we'll end up with Crisis of Infinite Crises.
This really underlines what I don't like about time travel stories in general, as the underlying subtext of many of them amounts to 'don't try to change things, respect the status quo!' Which is the most tired, conservative talking point I can imagine.
"The best Batman ever-" Oh, Wil Arnett's in this movie? Awesome!
Sorry, but 'The Best Batman Ever' died last year. (Kevin Conroy)
@@Launchpad05 Glad I met him a couple times. Hearing(and getting on tape) "I am vengeance, I am the night, I AM BATMAN!" live was awesome.
@@Launchpad05 My brother met him months before he pasted. He gave him autographs for both of us and was a really nice guy apparently.
Back to the Future isn’t really about time travel. It’s about what it would be like to go to school with your parents, that just needed time travel in order for it to happen.
Marty never intended to make his life better when he went back in time and changed things. Once he changed things he was working with Doc to put things back the way they were, and for the most part he did that. The slightly better life he has when he returns to 1985 is just a side effect of HOW things happened.
Marty's intentions are what make the future better, though. He encourages his dad to get some self esteem, embrace the art he wants to make, and look out for the people he cares about. And by doing that, his dad changes from a cowardly self-hating butt of the joke to a loving, confident, generous person who draws other people to him. If Marty had just focused purely on getting the same events to happen, nothing would have improved.
Did you know that they made two (IMO superior) sequels that aren't about that at all?
And did you forget that Marty did actively try to change the future by giving Doc a note about his death. Which works out splendidly.
@@SBJ_Tubemarty's intentions are totally to change the future in any of the sequels. In the second movie, it's to keep his kids out of jail as the mcguffin. when he decides to use the time machine for personal gain, doc scolds him and biff beats him to the punch and Not only that, but Marty learns not to put much stock in what others say. The whole rest of that movie is trying to set that mistake right and when three rolls around it's about saving doc from biff's ancestor and then again by avoiding a crash that would ruin his life. That is what the entire trilogy is about the future being in your hands. You have the power to change it. I feel it wouldn't be as resonate if it came down on the "no suffer, the future will always suck"
@@darkmyro I think a lot of people forget about the true message in the final movie. Doc, the guy who was always talking about not altering the timeline due to dire consequences, basically says just because you can travel to THE future, doesn't mean it's YOUR future. That no matter what, YOUR future hasn't been written yet.
That's a profoundly powerful message to send. Especially since it basically says all the "rules" the movies had established up to that point were wrong and based on false assumptions.
@@Carabas72 those are the sequels though.
So, the problem with this Flashpoint adaptation is the entire message of Flashpoint. Which is something I’ve been saying about Flashpoint since that story came out.
Gimme back Barry's happy childhood
It reminds me of all the older tradesmen at work who keep saying I don't know what 'REAL CONSTRUCTION' is because I wear safety gear and has yet to lose a finger. Like if they went back in time and didn't hurt themselves they would lose all their skills. Like their skills didn't come from decades of experience and actually all come from that time they hurt themselves.
Those guys would love the message of this movie.
@@GooongShut up Zoomer, you don’t need all those fingers
@@Gooong I love geoff Johns as a writer, but making this Barry's new Backstory is one of the worst things he added to DC
Yeah, FLashpoint needs to never come up again, and for that matter we should get rid of FLash Rebirth as well because making Barry yet another superhero with a tragic childhood just sucks.
Thanks for acknowledging how reasonable it is to boycott this movie. I won’t be seeing it, but everyone acts like doing so is almost offensive to anyone else who participated in this movie.
Also you’re the second reviewer to say it’s just okay. I feel like some people were so happy the DCEU produced a decent movie that is was being hyped as one of the best super hero movies ever.
DCEU fans are super defensive, haha.
If people are offended you're on the right track
I think if you boycott it then that makes sense, but I also think if you want to see it then that’s chill too. Personally I’m fine with seeing it as I know hundreds of people worked on this thing and I wouldn’t want to let one man ruin it. But I also completely understand not feeling comfortable watching it. I think everyone needs to calm down and just let people come their own conclusions.
Midnight’s Edge slammed it fwiw, although that probably doesn’t mean much.
It’s top 5 DCEU movies for me, but that’s not saying much. They have 2 or 3 movies that are in my bottom 10 of movies period.
The more DC/Warner tries movies of their own flavor the more they prove the 90's animated universe is superior.
Peak DC
looking forward to that Static Shock movie.
Saying THE FLASH has a nihilistic "don't change things" message is giving it too much credit. The message as I understood it was: "Don't change the past too much, or else aliens will invade and kill everyone. Just change it enough that your dad has a good alibi for your mom's murder."
It's werid that blue bettle has less than half the budget but has way better special effects.
Between this, Nolan Batman, Man of Steel, Picard season 3, It becomes extremely apparent that if you don't consider the moral implications of your script, they can very easily imply wildly f***** up things that you may have not intended. Like, It's true that no story needs a moral but wild. How often disregarding the moral of your story ends up providing a broken one anyway .
The moral is fine. Bob is wrong.
those films were damn good you crazy
@@Ren_Davis0531 exactly, Bob has a tendency to massively overanalyze these sorts of things.
Add Wonder Woman 1984 to that list
Solid review as always, although I’ll be pedantic and say you meant No Way Home each time you said Far from Home
I was wondering about that. Glad it's not just me.
I did that twice in my Tier Ranking video for MCU Phase 4. Far too easy a trap to fall into.
The DCEU has now become s thought experiment in what could have been if Uncle Ben had been an absolute asshole and imparted exactly the opposite moral onto the universe's seminal hero...
Dear God I hate the tragic backstory they retconned for Barry Allen. I hope one day they change it back.
What has there ever been truly to love about it? Used to, I didn't mind but now...well, another piece of evidence on why Warner Bros burned itself to the ground.
Im just proud if Bob for coming up with idea of Keaton Batman meeting flashbefore this movie did.
What is the stinger? Is that from There Will Be Blood?
Correct.
Wow, Bob! First of all, THANK YOU for being one of the people who does NOT think that nihilism is the hottest new thing that just everybody should be into right now! I could go on about how I think a lot of people are getting the wrong idea about nihilism these days but I'll spare you. That having been said, I think you may have misfired with this one because while I was beginning to think that this was actually going to turn out to be a fun watch despite its lead actor, you've managed to convince me - despite your negative overall appraisal - that something fascinating is going on here and now I just have to see this movie so I can figure it out for myself! How many other people will feel the same way? I guess we'll find out this weekend! Regardless, THANKS for being you! I wouldn't have it any other way!
I really like Kurzgesagt's video on "Optimistic Nihilism". You might find it a breath of fresh air too. :)
Sounds like your writing style and the movie's match perfectly. Enjoy!
the film isn't about nihilism, Bob is dead fucking wrong there as usual.
I can't remember which video it was, but you definitely made a "How I would do a Justice League movie" video a long time ago, and one of your ideas was to have a scene with CGI Christopher Reeves in it.
"Cheers to the death of the Snyderverse" makes me curious to see it, but I think boycotting and making a loud stink over Miller being kept on is the better play in the long term.
Wait a few weeks and then sail the high seas (this is legally a joke)
That part will probably be on TH-cam relatively soon.
So in the end, the Snyderverse ends exactly how it started... one big "Meh".
Or a hilarious trainwreck
@@lapislazuli5035 I'd argue it started meh, turned into a train wreck, then ended meh. This first and last film of the DCEU are far from the worst. Nahhh the worst titles go to bvs, wonderwoman 2, suicide squat lol.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 look at the bright side, at least aquaman and THE suicide squad were fun.
@@marcosdheleno The full title is "James Gunn's The Suicide Squad"
In the end, this film sounds like it bookends rather nicely with Man of Steel. Both are far from bad per se but they blow so much of the subtext that people come away from it repulsed on the moral level. And the filmmakers are completely unaware of how bad they're blowing it.
its funny, for years i always hated the "should i let them die" scene in MoS. and it genuinely soured the character for me. as from that point on, we can see that he lost that feeling. didnt help that he then let his father die soon after in the most idiotic way possible.
now, after across the spiderverse, i can finally understand why that scene rubbed me so wrong.
in across, when miles is confronted with both(the question of should he let people die for the greater good and if he should do something to save his father), not only does it happen BEFORE it, but we can see miles coming with his own answer. as opposed to just eat it up and accept it as fate.
if anything, he goes on to push back, and in doing so, he not only realize what it means to be a hero, but also manages to sway others who did fall for the trappings of what a hero is "supposed to be".
@@marcosdhelenoFurther proof on how wrongheaded DCEU always was.
This review was far nicer than what I expected.
I have every intention of skipping The Flash, however, a situation has presented itself where I can watch it as a double feature, at one of the oldest drive-ins in the country with Across the Spiderverse. Which my kids have been dying to see, and more than likely my kids would probably like this movie because they’re so far removed from anything Ezra miller related they don’t know what’s going on. So begrudgingly I may wind up having to watch this.
Think of it this way: at least you'll get the better version of the story in the bargain.
Plus you're supporting what is likely a family owned drive in. Win win.
@@pdxdonut yeah, that’s my justification for doing it. It’s also like the only drive-in theater for at least several counties.
Let's hope that they show ATSV before Flash.
Absolutely go, but please tell me Spiderverse is playing second because watching this thing right after would just be depressing.
That last stinger image deserved it's own "MESSAGE!" clip.
I didn't get the reference. Can you explain it for me?
@@jordansweet8054 th-cam.com/video/RjEIXoWk9N4/w-d-xo.html
Best LIVE-ACTION Batman.
"Man, am I glad this shit is over"
Famous last words, boss.
Gosh why I love this channel someone who sees through the shit of the Snyderverse
What a fitting epilogue to marthabox.
At least it's finally out now.
Just realized one could draw parallels between this film and Duke Nukem Forever.
Showcasing a character finding out a power they already knew since the last movie they were in is just so fucking DCEU I laughed out loud when you pointed it out. This the the perfect DC juice right there.
He actually never found it out in the Theatrical Cut, which this movie reminded me of more than anything else. Definitely has a closer tone than anything Snyder did.
Will you review Elemental ?
What's there to review? It's another Pixar movie, it's another "Racism Bad" movie using fictional cultures. If you like Pixar, you're going to see it anyway; if you don't like Pixar, you aren't. And there's no point making a review for it because there's not enough discourse around the film to generated the internet traffic that would warrant Bob dedicating time editing a video to give his two cents on it.
What's with the bowling alley in the credits?
It's from the end of the movie There Will Be Blood. Daniel Day-Lewis, looking at the wreckage he's made of his life, declares "I'm finished."
What is the picture at 10:56 from? I don't recognize it
I did find it kind of odd that the thing that made Dark Flash a villain is basically the thing that makes Miles Morales in Across the Spider-verse the hero. Or maybe more accurately what made Miguel O'Hara the villain in Spider-verse is played as heroic in The Flash.
I feel like that’s a fundamental misread of both movies. ATSV is about self-actualization in the face of predetermined narratives. The Flash is about accepting your past traumas and learning how to move past your grief to experience what life has to offer. ATSV is the vastly superior movie, but The Flash is a very different story.
True. I was talking about the movie with my wife and I referenced Star Trek V where Kirk doesn't want Sybok to take his pain away because it defines him and has made him the man he is. Though what made one character a villain in one movie made the other the hero in the other, the reasoning behind it makes sense. In Flash trauma and loss may be painful but help you grow and in Spider-verse what makes Miles the hero is not giving in to fate but pressing on even when told it is inevitable.
Regardless of anything, i will not watch this movie, because i just do not care. However, a supergirl movie sounds legit interesting, and since this actress sounds like she did a good job, i'd be more than happy to watch a movie about her instead, if they ever make it. Hi Bob 👋
Saying Ezra Miller is pulling off an "International Crime Spree" makes him sound like Carmen San-Diego and I don't like that.
I mean, I thought the film was a bit of mess as well, but saying that it's some sort of conservative rebuttal to other progressive films out there seems a hell of a stretch to me. Considering how the film ends, it's not saying that trying to change the past is bad, just that you need to consider there might be unintended consequences to a change; the same time travel warning that movies like 'The Butterfly Effect' or 'About Time' pointed out years ago. On top of that, what does bringing up 'Loki' and 'Across the Spider-Verse''s similar recent takes prove? Surely you wouldn't want all media about time travel to be the same thing each time?
I don't even buy the idea that some things are impossible to fix in a timeline, but I can accept the idea that getting a specific outcome at a specific moment in time (which is what Barry is trying to do by the end) and not accepting any compromises might be. Imagine a scenario where someone travels back to 1939 to try and stop World War II from happening, and he can't go back any further without messing with the circumstances that led to his own birth. Preventing World War II isn't impossible for a time traveller, but it would seem like it if you started changing things as late as 1939...
Definitely not seeing this one but looking forward to a big picture episode breaking down the spoiler stuff if that's in the works
Okay, Bob, I am confused, at 6:20-6:43 are you describing or talking about Flash or Ezra Miller?
The Flash?
I thought it was called Batman Returns Again. That's certainly what the posters I've seen for it make it look like.
I will be seeing this tonight. As such, I'll be closing the video after I post this comment as I try not to listen to reviews beforehand. I do really appreciate the preamble at the start, as that is what I want to address.
For me, Ezra/Flash is the least interesting thing in the movie. I'm actually much more interested in Keaton and Kara. I'm really going because I like movies, and comic movies in particular. As such, I'm kind of the go-to for my circle of friends to decide if a movie is worth seeing, let alone spend money on.
I didn't hate it, but I also don't feel the need to see it again. It's pretty much the definition of meh. I also thought Flash was the least interesting character.
Please more Sasha Calle in that role, though.
I've reached the "DC just wants to do Batman movies" conclusion years ago but for some reason, it hasn't occurred to DC yet.
But with multiple Batman movies, villain movies and enough animated tie ins to make Sony sweat, they are acting like it.
What was that bowling alley shot in the video credits from?
The ending of "There Will Be Blood", where Daniel Plainview says the last lines of the movie. "I'm finished."
Just found out about the scene where The Flash puts a CGI baby in a microwave... and there are people out there saying this is better than Across the Spiderverse or Guardians 3? Tell me this is a joke.
KEKW
Great, thoughtful analysis, Bob!
People can boycott what they want, it's their time and money. There is no point debating it.
You know it's funny because when it comes to time travel I like having the static past that cannot change for a variety of reasons, but it's amazing how story framing is everything. Because when I think static past I think "I can't change this but I can choose what I do from here." so to have a movie that's "You can't change anything deal with it." just seems like such a downer and an easy misstep to avoid. I almost have a little curiosity to rent this when it comes out.
a better story would use the fact its a static event that must remain untouched, or one that will auto correct itself to remain true to tell a compeling story.
@@marcosdhelenoThe Remedy Entertainment game Quantum Break is just such a story as you describe.
"You can't change anything deal with it" is not good, but that's not this movie either.
This movie is "supervillains can change your past and kill your mom whenever they want, and if you try to stop them you'll only make it worse".
Flashpoint is the quintessential 'superheroes are useless' story.
The Flash didn't go back in time in the original DCEU Justice League movie. And the Snyder Cut isn't canon to the DCEU. So no, he didn't forget about going back in time because he never went back in time.
I have no problem with people boycotting this movie.
I want to see Michael Keaton as Batman again - and I feel that's worth a movie ticket.
But I'm glad there are people boycotting because Ezra Miller does not deserve to be the Flash.
Have you seen how Ezra Miller runs as the Flash? it's as if they don't know how to run. Oh yeah and the criminal stuff that's pretty awful.
Hoping for a spoiler-fueled Big Picture. I miss the old days.
Me too.
I feel the CW has done everything interesting that there was to do with the Flash so this movie would have had an up-hill struggle to be worth seeing even if it didn't have a scummy star and mess of a production.
And so, the DCEU ends has it began: Not with bang, nor a whimper, but a resounded 'Meh.'
Nah. Still two movies to go: Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle. And they both look... I want to cautiously say decent to good.
@@Carabas72 Didn't James Gunn say he wanted to move Blue Beetle to his new universe?
@@Undrave
I literally have no idea. Maybe?
I suppose there's nothing stopping him.
“I can’t remember the last time a movie was this less self-aware.”
I know WW84 was forgetful, but it also wasn’t that long ago.
Ever accounted for the likely possibility that this one is worse than WW84?
@@johnathonhaney8291 Worse than 84? Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Worse than 84 _in that specific aspect? _*_That_* would be a monumental accomplishment in failure.
@@Veolynn13Given who we're talking about? Is that last part THAT impossible?
@@johnathonhaney8291 "Taking a superhero created by a radical-for-their-time feminist for the distinct purpose of teaching kids to get woke about women's rights (kinda), and having her possibly sexually assaulting someone in an era where sexual assault is considered by most feminists to be the worst, most unspeakable act of evil a human being could possibly commit" is a tough act to follow in the business of "catastrophically offensive fuckup that's *fundamentally antithetical* to the character/series you're working with"
Damn 5/10 . Screw it.
Viva la gunnverse ( even sound cooler, no offense Snyder)
The Gunnverse? I can go with that one! KAPOW!!!!! FINGER GUNS!!
I wanted to like this movie but have to say, it's mediocre at best. Ezra Miller was unbearable and there's 2 of them! Batman and Supergirl are great but it's not enough to save this movie.
I wanna hear more about that ending, tho.
The ending is basically, 'F**k you basement dwellers! George Clooney was the perfect Batman, and be brought him back to troll you into oblivion!'
@@Launchpad05 Hahahahaha!
A movie that, on it's own, is average in quality, but has so many weird stuff both in it and surrounding it that it's ultimately going to overshadow the movie itself. Was it really worth it to get to this point?
...Well, so long as we can just move past everything from the past decade and finally move on to *hopefully* something better...
Nothing Warner Bros. makes must be purchased from Warner Bros. to enjoy.
. Didnt know your liked Far from Home that much but Ill take it :) . No baksies :)
Spoilers
I’m glad I’d forgotten half the rumours I’d heard about it because when they were doing the multiverse bats and supes montage I got to have that dawning moment of “when was Superman on another planet? Are they doing an animated universe nod? Wait, giant spider? OMG, they didn’t! They did! PS2 Nick Cage lives!”
So... It's the Duke Nukem Forever of superhero movies.
* glances outside my bubble to the raging dumpster fire of the last few years * Yeah no, trauma didn't make it stronger, it just burned me out and gave me new neuroses. I'll take the MCU's corporate branded optimism, thanks.
AND it burned down the studio that made it in the process. Way too much BDSM for me.
When i saw this review my Immediate thought was this sounds like the exact opposite of Across the Spider Verse ❗️
Not for nothing, but I just saw The Flash and I swear there's an early scene where they say a brief time-traveling event by Barry was 'like (whatever the city was called in Justice League),' and it's referenced by both of them. So I think they do acknowledge it? Maybe it was something else.
Great video, great review. Hopefully this can mark the end of the ill conceived DCEU and DC can begin anew.
Every since the comics bought Barry Allen back in the 2000’s, he has mostly been used as a plot point/macguffin to kick off their never ending series of crossovers and reboots. This seems more of the same.
"Just another _Black Adam."_ Ooh. Ouch.
Interesting that the point of Flashpoint is that you can't change fate without only ever always making things worse, while the point of Spider-Verse is the hero's refusal to accept fate usually works out pretty well for them.
Except it wasn't even fate in Flashpoint. It was a time-travelling supervillain.
The message of Flashpoint is that trying to stop supervillains will only make things worse.
2:40-3:00 (ish) Is the "non CGI punchline" they chose to end with _that certain cameo_ I'm thinking of? Because that was indeed really fun!
The post credit scene read like a remnant of a time when the movie was supposed to be a softer reboot of DCEU continuity, probably meant to suggest that some but not all the DCEU movies have been erased from canon. But if they are recasting literally everyone, that makes the post credits scene and the entire movie essentially pointless
@@TheJadedJames Oh. I thought it was a joke about Clooney showing up.
I mean, we kinda guessed that the film was pointless already. We're just waiting for the second "Aquaman" film and "Blue Beetle", and we are going a different direction after 2024.
Anyway, thank you for the explanation!
I don’t understand how the F Flash going back in time changes Ben Affleck and Gotham to the burtonverse. I am not nostalgic for some geezer playing Batman when we could’ve gotten Flashpoint Batman. I am just glad the POS Snyderverse is finally over, good riddance
If you actually watched the movie, it answers that question exactly.
So it's the movie equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever?
Man. That plot description....right off the heels of spiderverse dropping too.
Get the feeling that Spiderverse is going to do to this movie what Civil War did to BvS?
@@johnathonhaney8291 We can only hope.
I think it is very funny the first people who signed on to direct the flash were... lord & miller, i feel like they still used some of their draft lol.
How bad were all the DCEU villains that the only memorable one they've used now 3 times is Zod.
I’m seeing it on Friday but the fact that it’s this much of a thematic hodgepodge means it’s at least gonna be interesting to see it play out. From what you’re saying, it feels like they wanted the emotional thru-line of the Flashpoint arc in the comics about obsessing over past trauma to the point where you’re willing to let everything and everybody around you go to hell because of it being a bad thing but it sounds like they completely fumbled the execution (not saying the original arc was perfect by any means but at least on that front it was coherent. And it at least offered an avenue to explore some fun alternate universe concepts through that like Thomas Wayne Batman, public hero Captain Cold, evil Aquaman/Wonder Woman, Abin Sur living etc.)
He's already been paid, brother, and he's already likely being courted to keep playing Flash again. I don't like him as a person, if the allegations are true, but you paying for a cinema pass instead of a ticket isn't gonna take a single cent from him.
@@theuglywolf2536 point taken.
Saw the preview before Guardians 3 and Michael Keaton + lady Superman almost tempted me to check it out. Thanks for the reality check.
I gathered that the comic Flashpoint came to a similar conclusion, but yeah, it's really fucking dour and defeatist when compared to Spiderverse, Back to the Future, the MCU, Frequency, Happy Death Day 1+2, even Rick+Morty, and so many other stories dealing with timelines/multiverse shenanigans (maybe not The Butterfly Effect). And the whole "shut up, Zoomers, trauma builds character!" subtext feels even grosser right now.
There will be scene compilations somewhere down the line, I'm not giving this money.
Fair enough. I reccomend Predestination if you want another cool time travel movie but avoid all spoilers.
I’m confused, does anyone understand Bob’s post credit stinger?
It's from the final scene of There Will Be Blood. The guy sitting in the bowling alley, looking at the wreck he made of his life, declares "I'm finished." Such is Mr. Chipman's attitude towards DCEU.
I think you said Far from Home when you meant No Way Home. (Sorry if this is pedantic)
3:10 The ending was the best part. #BacktotheFuture was the theme of the film, as the co-eds kept telling Barry.
10:20 Was that "buried"... or "Barry'd"? (Obligatory Flashpoint pun.)
If this movie didn't have that criminal groomer in it, and Pixar's Elemental wasn't coming out on the same day, I would have TOTALLY seen this in theaters!
You can skip Elemental as well.
@@mabusestestament I CAN, but I WON'T!
@@googamp32
But you can like, buy multiple pizzas from the ticket money
@@mabusestestament Nah! I can have pizza anytime. Pixar movies are worth the money!
Wow. What an incredibly unpleasant movie with a revolting premise that looks sparkly and whose movie posters made me think it was a Batman film. Bob, thank you for watching this so I know it's out there and can stay far away.
Honestly, the climax for me was just an endless repition of moments the TV show did better.
So it's Duke Nukem Forever, then?
I could honestly see this as a blueprint to make your own movies in defiance to edgelord bleakness.
Also; I could very well see that Supergirl actress as Power Girl or an action star in her own right.
boobs not big enough.
joking aside, i would have no problem if she were to carry the mantle of "super" for a couple of movies, she does have the charisma, to be fair, i do feel like Cavil is very charismatic, it just sucks that he got stuck with the worst possible adaptation, done by the most edgelord superman haters who wanted him to be batman instead.
It’s was very VERY clear the bad guy was (spoiler). I could tell because I’ve seen a movie before. They could afford to be a little more unpredictable in a movie like this.
Read my mind on that last scene! Wich was clearly a big "F### you" to the Snyderverse and all those uber nerds who take this sh## way too seriously! There's no way that wasn't James Gunn's idea! I like the guy more and more!
But yeah! Still pretty generic. The movie, I mean.
Was the mosaic a recent request by movie companies?
I think it's more like "show any footage at all and we copyright-strike you" than a specific request.
The most awkward thinga bout the moviee is that Ezras performance is the best thing about it. All the fan service stuff is so forced and unearned that it just falls flat. Even worse is that this film seemed to need to happen as it was meant to reset the timeline for the new DCU ...and it doesnt, leaving the whole thing more of a mess then it was before the film.
what talking about ? LETS GET NUTS!
"it was meant to reset the timeline for the new DCU... and it doesn't"
*XD*
I've always found that the principle failing of the Flashpoint storyline and its myriad adaptations is how it has no grasp on the basic premise of cause-and-effect. There's never any logic behind what changes and why, so it all feels entirely arbitrary. That's not how you write compelling speculative fiction.
It fails as speculative fiction but as a comic story at least it kinda worked for me - it was a decent story with some emotionally resonant moments, it remixes stuff that readers will get a kick out of, and it achieved what it set out to do.
I feel the Justice League: The Nail gets the principle slightly better (“oh in a world with no Superman being a big symbol of truth and hope more pressure is put on Wonder Woman to be that” etc) but even that takes a turn for the wacky with the ending
The world of Flashpoint was an interesting Elseworlds setting but didn't remotely make sense as a consequence of Barry changing his own past.
Seriously! How dies Barrys mom not being murdered lead to the Kents not finding Clark and his being imprisoned in a bunker?
-something that, based on their typical ages, happened BEFORE Barrys mom was murdered
Sasha Calle was the best thing about this movie, bring her back as often as she wants.
I hope Michael Keaton got a big fat paycheck.
Did Ezra Miller just watch a marathon of Pauly Shore movies to play younger even MORE annoying Barry?