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Yes, in some motorsport series they've been doing this for years, referring to the "throttle" as the torque demand pedal. It's also something I've raised a number of times with the "drag" racing chaps, and chapesses, - and apparently being ignored - because they usually do the coarse boost and/or timing control when they have a torque excess causing wheel slip or a "wheelie" - and this does reduce the peak, where that's the problem, but it also reduces the torque where not only is it not a problem, but could actually benefit from an increase. With modern electronic controls it should be easy to produce a very flat torque "curve", and raise or lower it as required for the track conditions and the gear the vehicle's in. As an aside, I don't ever recall one of the "TH-camr" mentioning anything about monitoring the tyre tread temperatures immediately before a run, which seems daft because the duration and rpm of the "burnout" can vary significantly, as can the "cool down" between the tyre warming and the actual launch. Similarly, it should be advantageous to closely monitor the tyre pressures, which will be similarly affected. When it's corrolated to track temperatures, and track prep', it should make for more consistent runs using the full grip potential.
Aside from OE traction control, the other cruicial reason OE use such complex torque modelling is the transmission control. When a 50nm descrepancy is the difference between a 8hp shifting aggressively or slipping, the tq modeling is more imporant than ever before to a modern car shifting nicely at low to mid load.
Does M Tune initially generate the torque limit maximum curve using engine map data such as engine size, ve, rpm, map, ignition, calculated mass airflow etc? You can then validate and alter this with dyno measurements? The approach makes sense and is a layer of joined up modelling above boost by gear and conventional aftermarket traction control, this should be easier to manipulate as a joined up grouping after initial setup investment.
Andre, is it safe to say that Subarus from 2008 and up have a torque based ecu? I am not a professional tuner, just your normal car guy who is into these kind of things. I have managed to play around a little bit with RomRaider and EcuFlash. The throttle tables are called "Requested Torque" and those tables are subdivided by the SI drive modes - Intelligent, Sport, Sport# modes. From my understanding of those tables it is within those tables the peak boost is controlled (ie. in Intelligent mode the boost is lower because the peak value in the Requested Torque table is lower). Coincidentally, in the stock calibration the peak value is 350, which is also the peak torque of the car in Newton Metres.
Yup, sure have. No one said this was new as of today, sorry for any confusion on that 🤘- Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/why-dont-we-max-out-torque-tables/ www.hpacademy.com/blog/what-goes-into-modern-ecu-development/ www.hpacademy.com/blog/torque-delivery-decoded-pro-tuners-open-secrets/
@@coreyw427 so was Emtron. But the difference is you could use that control on any other car with Motec being locked with firmware to specific models. Even the new firmware is more Money alone than an Emtron ecu. So what I’m saying is Emtron has this available for all versus motec. I’m sure higher end Mclaren, cos worth or Bosch had this but those are not ecus for us mere mortals
🏎 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/uyy
🦵Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/3wd
Yes, in some motorsport series they've been doing this for years, referring to the "throttle" as the torque demand pedal.
It's also something I've raised a number of times with the "drag" racing chaps, and chapesses, - and apparently being ignored - because they usually do the coarse boost and/or timing control when they have a torque excess causing wheel slip or a "wheelie" - and this does reduce the peak, where that's the problem, but it also reduces the torque where not only is it not a problem, but could actually benefit from an increase.
With modern electronic controls it should be easy to produce a very flat torque "curve", and raise or lower it as required for the track conditions and the gear the vehicle's in.
As an aside, I don't ever recall one of the "TH-camr" mentioning anything about monitoring the tyre tread temperatures immediately before a run, which seems daft because the duration and rpm of the "burnout" can vary significantly, as can the "cool down" between the tyre warming and the actual launch. Similarly, it should be advantageous to closely monitor the tyre pressures, which will be similarly affected.
When it's corrolated to track temperatures, and track prep', it should make for more consistent runs using the full grip potential.
ANDRE you ARE HPA! Thanks for all that you do.
Hope Haltech is working on this too
I paid this guy for a vip so many years ago, i forgot and to this day i milk his classes. But honestly i am mostly watching on TH-cam.
Aside from OE traction control, the other cruicial reason OE use such complex torque modelling is the transmission control. When a 50nm descrepancy is the difference between a 8hp shifting aggressively or slipping, the tq modeling is more imporant than ever before to a modern car shifting nicely at low to mid load.
Does M Tune initially generate the torque limit maximum curve using engine map data such as engine size, ve, rpm, map, ignition, calculated mass airflow etc?
You can then validate and alter this with dyno measurements?
The approach makes sense and is a layer of joined up modelling above boost by gear and conventional aftermarket traction control, this should be easier to manipulate as a joined up grouping after initial setup investment.
Andre, is it safe to say that Subarus from 2008 and up have a torque based ecu?
I am not a professional tuner, just your normal car guy who is into these kind of things. I have managed to play around a little bit with RomRaider and EcuFlash. The throttle tables are called "Requested Torque" and those tables are subdivided by the SI drive modes - Intelligent, Sport, Sport# modes. From my understanding of those tables it is within those tables the peak boost is controlled (ie. in Intelligent mode the boost is lower because the peak value in the Requested Torque table is lower). Coincidentally, in the stock calibration the peak value is 350, which is also the peak torque of the car in Newton Metres.
This is how Emtron has been doing it for a while now.
Yup, sure have. No one said this was new as of today, sorry for any confusion on that 🤘- Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/why-dont-we-max-out-torque-tables/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/what-goes-into-modern-ecu-development/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/torque-delivery-decoded-pro-tuners-open-secrets/
Yup, I need to get on a Hub dyno to set mine up. The accuracy is off. It shows I am making more TQ than is available.
@@spooler7828this usually calculates engine power not wheel but there are fudge factors you can use
Actually, Motec has had this in packages for years now and well before Emtron. Was first in Nissan GTR R-35 package.
@@coreyw427 so was Emtron. But the difference is you could use that control on any other car with Motec being locked with firmware to specific models. Even the new firmware is more
Money alone than an Emtron ecu.
So what I’m saying is Emtron has this available for all versus motec. I’m sure higher end Mclaren, cos worth or Bosch had this but those are not ecus for us mere mortals
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