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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2022
- The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/mspaints07221
Blessed are the hobby channels who never found themselves on the Warhammer and Games Workshop treadmill. While i don't mind being on it, let's talk about why some of your other favourite channels and creators might.
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MS Paints is dedicated to teaching quick, easy and disability friendly ways of making, painting and playing tabletop games. We gear every video to being useful, first and foremost, to hobbyists who have a harder time getting the results they want from their models and games.
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The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/mspaints07221
Thanks!!
The GW kicked my dog segments had me chuckling heartily
That was VERY good.
Hell yes
Same...same. :D
How could Mr James workshop do this
I'd like to see more of the "Adventures of Mr. Chumpchange"! :D
The algorithm often gets blamed for things that are actually the result of viewer habits. The algorithm is reactive.
And then TH-cam channels react to that. Self fulfilling prophecy.
It’s the same as “clickbait” as a whole.
There was a fun time before the horrible 2020s where I was able to be on top doing stuff for D&D only. Loved it. But the platform is now GW or bust. I’ve just given up. I just do what I do. It is what it is. I don’t like Warhammer very much 🤷🏻♂️
Was thinkin’ about your good self when I was writing this. And very grateful you’re still suggested to me daily!
Honestly I think you didn't have to worry about this as much because you were orginally a "Dnd" crafter (a lot like wylock) and both your craft and audience you established could easily branch into terrain for "wargames" which could include Warhammer. Also I have always admired your system of getting ideas, where you use your sponsor's minis to make terrain, naturally blending both together in a way that doesn't seem janky
Fully Agree. If you click enough on do not recommend youtube will stop showing the stuff. but people are lazy and think TH-cam should just know what you like and dont like.
It lives and breathes, it learns.
Clever girl.
I enjoy your projects a great deal BMC. The truth is most of the scenery and terrain bits you do are usable in D&D, Warhammer, and the whole gamut of tabletop games. Do you have to tag something #warhammer to get views? Unfortunately, yes. But you don't have to present Warhammer as the be all - end all rules set.
I completely agree with you here. Apart from the 'my cat destroys my Warhammer' video. Unforgiveable. My favourite point 'a 40k table it the same as a star wars table' EXACTLY. It's the same for 90 percent of this hobby.
Yeah it's also not GW as much as 2 GW games. Middle earth people are kind of viewed as the prince Andrew of the GW royal family.
"If you want to make a living selling things you've made, you need to sell things that sell." - you basically summed up every modern era start-up guide in one statement. Bravo, sir. 👏
Aren't most startups nowadays not making things?
im one of the freaks that prefers the non warhammer content. i used to play D&D but now just paint minis to relax and take up even more shelf space. so do what makes you happy. im more interested in techniques and practical knowledge in hopes my painted minis dont look like i panted them with a potato while having a seizure.
I feel the same. Although I graduated from the potato and moved to carrot. A world of difference.
You’ve absolutely nailed this video man. Absolutely love it.
It’s why I do so little on Middle Earth - I would LOVE to do more but the videos just don’t get that much traction.
Mhmmmmm! Do it between sponsors and enjoy it while you can honey!
As someone who's only just about dipped their toes in the hobby, I think it comes down in great part to how expensive the hobby itself is. People seem to stick with the first franchise they buy into (probably mainly GW stuff, since they've eaten the entire market) and are not super interested in investing into something else. Will I watch something about SW Legion or Victrix or Bolt Action? Sure thing, if it seems interesting. But I'll largely stick to the plastic toy range I've sunk $300+ into.
I’ve just stopped investing in any gaming product that I know I won’t 100% be playing with any regularity. That includes GW product too- I haven’t bought a 40k rulebook in at least three years, and I have a stack of Necromunda books on my shelf that aren’t doing me anything.
I have 3 AoS armies of 3000 points. Deathwatch well over 3000 points.
And i would still rather play Malifaux or Infinity. I do actaully
Non-GW stuff can be much cheaper. A Turnip28 army can be 25-50€.
Depending on how we define 'the hobby', I'm not at all convinced GW *HAS* eaten the entire market.
Are we defining the hobby as miniatures & terrain? Then GW is at best on par with WizKids & Reaper, because sure as hell nobody is buying packs of space marines to use in their D&D game. If anything, I suspect WizKids is the actual dominant force here, because of the official tie-in they have with WOTC.
Are we defining the hobby more specifically as miniature wargaming? Well in that case maybe yeah GW is king... although the miniatures game is by this point the LEAST profitable part of the 40k brand... with a high initial cost (in both time & $$$) to get started... vs. video games & books.
And even then, when I walk into my friendly local games store... I see a wall of kings of war, & a wall of 40k, & several other walls with the afore mentioned Reaper & WizKids, plus a few other sundry brands. Of the lot, the LEAST affordable is 40K. I'm not convinced that the clueless kid (or the even more clueless parent of said kid) is going to pick the goofy looking dudes with shoulder pads that costs half again as much. Of course, that may vary based on choice of friendly local game store & what they choose to stock.
Of course, if we're defining the hobby as just 40K/Games Workshop... AKA the reality GW's marketing wishes we lived in... then yes I suppose GW has eaten the market :D.
There are so many other sytems to use those same models and have more fun with
The paint stripping video is a great example of why this current landscape is a shame. I spent quite awhile a few weeks ago searching for exactly that type of content (either videos or web pages) - what product could I find here in Western Australia that could help me remove multiple layers of decades old enamel paint from some classic Hero Quest minis.
It was bloody hard and I wish your video had come up. Luckily I there was one product tested by GooberTown Hobbies that is actually available here.
naphtha lighter fluid alcohol ever clear 50% mix soak 42 hours. no damage
I’m Visually Impaired, almost blind. I can’t play Tabletop Skirmish/War Games anymore.
I subscribed to you, as it’s inspiring to get the perspective of another person with a disability in the hobby.
Watching/listening to this content reminds me of enjoying the hobby as a teenager. I still paint…kind of, too.
I’m not burned out on Warhammer yet, as I usually indulge an hour a week. That’s enough. When I am burned out, I’ll get interested in other games.
To be honest, I’ll watch any content put out by TH-camrs I like, but Warhammer is usually a safe bet, as it’s familiar.
As someone big into Tabletop Roleplaying Games: I feel the same way about Dungeons & Dragons, as these TH-camrs feel about Warhammer. They’re the Kleenex and Hoover of the hobbies, and it can’t be changed.
I'm sorry to hear about your vision. I suffer from keratoconus myself and I had three cornea transplants in my left eye alone (two were in the same year) so I can definitely relate to some of what you're going through.
@@outpost206 two transplants in a year sounds stressful. I don’t envy that!
In all actuality I could give a shit less if you’re doing GW content I watched 1 video of yours and got hooked on your talent and personality. If anything I watch your content.. even if it’s GW. I play Blood Bowl but other than the fun of painting GW minis I don’t care. I’m gonna try doing what you do and hope to someday get to meet you. You’re awesome, funny and talented. Id watch you modge podge a dog turd..(obviously after GW killed the dog) keep up the good work and do collaborations with Luke if you can he’s cool as fuck as well
The problem that many of us face is that... Well... Videos outside of the "standard" topics of a channel get a slow drip feed of viewers and while that does not sound so bad per se... That in turn leads to less push from YT and that in turn leads to even less eyes on the content that in turn leads to less of a push... Thus the slow death begins.
Let’s go blood bowl!!
Totally agree with above ^^ keep up the awesome content
@@TawessBitsbox its not like hes a big youtuber. 25k isnt alot of people fair play if he was up in them mill but when his channel is this low he needs to keep onto making the same things
@@budman8926 That was my point, that we smaller channels are so dependent on the YT ai content distribution system (aka the algorithm) that any deviation from what it expect us to push can be fatal. I pretty much only does Battletech stuff, so the few times i have broken away from that the videos can have up to 90% less traffic. Even if it is GW stuff. So GW stuff is not a auto success but there is ofc way bigger of a community to tap in to compared to Battletech, confrontation or Warmachine/Hordes. So the growth potential is much greater and that does create a monopoly situation that does not in any way help other wargaming communities.
The TRUTH ;-) is that content creators absolutely have the ability to make new things trend- the tricky part is getting us to agree on what the next big thing should be. :-) I see your vote for Resident Evil 3 the board game, and I cast my own vote for Relicblade! Luke loves him some Kings of War, and Miniac is all about A Song of Ice and Fire. The day we all get excited for the same system will be a very fun day. Great video!
Thanks Brent! Maybe we should all agree to just, out of nowhere go REALLY hard on origami for a week.
This is very much a thing. If we would all agree on never again intentionally mentioning any game or brand of paint again.. things would look different. It would be like we where doing crafting videos or something :)
Kudos to that!
Middle aged gamers like me who had a break during their first working years and now have both the money and the time to get back to the hobby are always going to default first on what they already knew in the 2000s.
BUT! It is you guys the ones who inspire us to try new things, and using things that we are familiar with to do so is one of the most effective ways to do so. Currently I'm very interested on playing Frostgrave only because Black Magic Craft explained how it was like a fusion between Mordheim and DnD systems and I only have a 3D printer with its corresponding patreon suscriptions because of all of you guys.
@@MSPaints I would watch the shit out of those origami videos.
I had an existential crisis when I realised how much of my creative core was wrapped up in a company I don't like the practices of. I was knee deep in the Warhammer world all through my Nurgle Diaries series but as I started to really push the boundaries on what constitutes as "Warhammer" I realised i just liked making weird stuff. It felt disingenuous to keep going after my love for the game faded... so I stopped. My goal was to pivot my channel to a more general crafting audience like Nerdforge, Studson, Bill Making Stuff, Tested ect but that transition has been very costly and slow and I still can't escape being in the recommended feeds of primarily Warhammer channels. I call all fantasy roleplaying "D&D" and when people asked what I do and I say miniatures they say "like warhammer?", so I'm conflicted. I want people to find me via Warhammer because I wanna be the reason why someone looks at their miniatures differently and teaches them to kitbash and make their own arratives but I don't want to contribute to GW machine either if I don't have to.
I've been trying to escape for a while. If we can collectively familiarise people with the same term for weird miniature garbage that we can all use in our titles that could unite us all that would be wicked.
I love what your channel has become my man. Nurgle diaries felt like a great transition into it, tonally. We should have a something different month between us. One video in a set month that is something different. With a set hashtag. That’d be niiiiiice.
I watch very little TH-cam. When I do, crafting videos are up top. The difference between “miniature videos” and “crafting videos” is staggering. Very product specific, technique centered (mini vids) vs. idea realization / journey / creation (crafting). It’s fascinating how fast I got indoctrinated into the one and not the other.
This really hits home for me as a creative. I haven’t started making TH-cam videos yet but I have a similar issue with Twitter and IG. People will tell creatives “do what makes you happy, I’ll love your content regardless” or “you don’t have to make perfect beautiful jaw dropping art, just post what makes you happy”, I know the people who say this (and actually mean it because we know people will lie to make themselves look good, no shame, just is how it is) mean well but that’s not how these social media platforms work. If you’re a small creator (or even a medium creator) you have no choice but to chain your content to that does well until you’re big enough where your content doesn’t matter anymore but until you reach that point the 10% of people who would be willing to watch non-popular content are not enough to boost a post or video to a wider audience via the algorithm. What the algorithm wants is content that does well because then the platform profits from that content and in return for that profit your content gets seen by a wider audience. It sucks but unfortunately that’s just how it is and it’s not going away, as much as most of us wish it would
I absolutely love your sense of humor and I admire your ability to clearly explain how you personally and professionally feel about this topic.
Please keep putting in the work.
Cheers.
Heya Dave. I'm one of Andy's gang. First off, let's start with a thank you for supporting the boss and understanding. Much love 🥰.
As a hobbiest and Painter, I don't really do any gaming. I paint what I like, aesthetically, so I like to explore different mini lines. It'd be lovely to see more variety in my you tube feed as GW isn't my go to, not because I hate GW, I don't, just that not many of their minis are of interest to me. If they were, it'd be dead easy. But I do love The Cool stuff, not the popular stuff. Thank you for this video and you get a follow from me. *please don't bash me, I'm not taking a pop a GW personalities, or the company, I just have a different approach* 🥰
"learn something actually universal"
This is the funny thing about why im even watching any of these channels. I don't play these games. Any of them.
I customize gijoes. I figure, i can use the same techniques you guys use on your 28mm stuff I can apply it to my hobby. My hobby has overall improved.
Im actually pretty turned off by games workshop centered content. One channel was really good about having great painting and basing techniques. Then they stopped making videos for a long time. Now they're back and it's all gw all the time. And i haven't seen a worthwhile helpful video i can learn anything from in months and have debated unsubscribing for a while. Fortunately that's just one. Their panel lining video is the tits and they only mentioned the best way to do it like as a side note.
I freaking hate the gothic buildings. I hate the same pattern ruined building (sloping up both sides, each floor getting smaller and smaller to the top). Boring.
Anyway. That's just me and im a drop in the bucket.
Your video where you show your dry brushing box is why i stuck around. Fucking genius idea. I just need to make one.
Yes! I also don’t play any GW games at all. In fact, I don’t game at all. Two of my family members play Dungeons and Dragons and I started crafting terrain as a seated hobby after developing a heart condition that forced me to pause all my other hobbies. From there I agreed to try painting their DnD minis.
I want to watch content that has general mini & terrain painting techniques, isn’t too wanky or elitist, and is hopefully engaging to listen to.
I'm so exhausted and burned out with the whiney GW kicked my dog crowd.
Yeah I still watch Discourse though cuz I'm a simp and I'm a sucker for her silly accent.
Still I get thier frustration but I say nut up and focus on cool alternatives. Table top time has. Wylock was the guy who got me into OPR and I have never looked back at gw
Good to see a reflective video on this topic. It worries me that channels that primarily focus on being mad at GW do better than people embracing positive hobby content for literally any other game. Speaking only of my own gaming microcosm, the local gaming scene is much more diverse than TH-cam seems to be. Not sure how this could be improved except by people clicking on things they enjoy instead of going for the dopamine hit of drama, and being a bit more adventurous.
Dude.
The sincerity and humor in your videos is beyond compare.
Your outlook is spot on.
Looking forward to seeing your success continue.
Also..... when is a Gorkamorka campaign making an appearance on your channel?
When I can! Haha
Great video to open the dialogue. I'm considering starting my own channel and have wondered a lot about this when noting my ideas down, seems like everything I come up with would have to be spun slightly to get the views rather than just being lain out plainly.
Hopefully as you and other great creators out there put out more non-GW stuff out in-between sponsors people will start to pick up on that and maybe habits will change. Maybe... Seems there are more than enough great products and systems out there for everyone to have their fill.
Also just wanted to say that I've only recently found your channel, I've gone back and watched all your videos and I love what you're doing for the hobby! Mad love and keep up the good work!
I so totally agree with your last statement. I also got diagnosed with MS five years ago (and yes, I am pretty old for such a revelation with being 44) and since then went from being an ArtDirector to rolling around in my wheelchair and try to spend my newly won freetime as a pensioner as a mediocre artist… when life hits you, miniature companies are not that important anymore. Thanks for your great, awesome content and I will watch whether it is about GW or Mantic (great company… visited them in Nottingham three years ago) or any other great miniature wargame. Cheers!
You rock. I adore your Chanel. Just when I expect secret paint receipts, you blow my mind with meta info about all this stuff. Keep on keeping on, you mover and shaker.
Just found this channel and I gotta say I love the aesthetic. Also the way you explained these topics really made sense for me and I’m glad you are in a content place right now.
Great take on an otherwise super whiny topic.
Contentcreators should try talking to the hobby stores who didn't want to stock Games Workshop and Magic the Gathering during the 90s and 00s.
Oh wait. They don't exist anymore.
I'm here because the videos you make are just hilarious regardless of the content. However the Warhammer ones interest me more slightly ( more so with other channels) because I own a part of that product and use TH-cam to expand my painting, building and playing ability. The time I have doesn't really allow me to put down Games workshop and pick up another game where I have to start from the beginning once more. Either way keep up the amazing content!
Just finished watching your episode on The Painting Phase and totally loved it. Jumped over here and this was my first vid of yours. Very impressed and you gave me a good giggle or two. Fair play to you! Love the channel and will be following!
I love this vid man. Super lolz! Your cutaways are incredible 🙌🏻
This video is the 'fun, drunk, uncle' version of what I wish Tabletop Minions was like lol. All joking aside, I could watch Dave discuss toilet bowl repair in this format and still be entertained af.
Except tabletop minions doesn't blame the company when it's not their fault
I’m a fan of the creators themselves, I enjoy watching whatever you or Luke put out. Hell, just read the newspaper on camera and I will hit the like button lol.
Great honest editorial piece! Keep up the good work! Really enjoy your content. The search for health and safety frog continues.
Just found your channel today. Really impressed with the editing and creativity, that's distinctly lacking in so many warhammer talking head videos, and even creative 'painter-maker' type channels. Great use of B roll, cuts, skits, etc.
Really nice stuff. A lot of much larger channels could learn an awful lot from yours.
Sometimes they take stuff recreate it almost exactly and word for word. That’s always fun for me to watch, hahaha
@@MSPaints I doubt they can match the quality of the editing and camera work though. Honestly, first channel in such a long time where I've really thought, much as you yourself state, that this person is a creative first, hobbyist second.
@@Karhedron thank you! Thanks possibly the best compliment I’ve ever gotten haha. Damn bud. Big love!
@@MSPaints having, like I suspect many, to find a new life direction since covid squashed my previous trajectory, I've been considering getting into content creation of some form myself.
Not sure what subject area, but to see someone putting the time, effort and creativity into the true filmmaking side of what many would just make simple talk-to-camera videos is really inspiring.
Going that extra mile, and clearly a reason you have your much-deserved supporters on Patreon :)
One thing that I think would help viewers is to stop relying on the Home page. It blows my mind that so many people don't use the Subscriptions page.
I subscribe to content creators I like and a.) I don't really want to see stuff I'm not subscribed to because of some algorithm and b.) I discover new creators by the creators I already watch and trust.
Not saying that fixes everything, but it makes sure that you actually SEE the content you subscribe to instead of hoping it shows up. And it means something a subscribed content creator creates that would normally get lost to the algorithm well, isn't.
The most important thing is to both find people you like watching and such. Oh and use stuff like the like button and such to get more content you would like.
I use the subscription page. It does not display all channels you are subscribed to. I have 500+ channel subs over the past 10 years. At one point I was interested in woodworking, I have 20-30 channels that are active there but they no longer appear in my subscriptions. They have not appeared for a long time. Occasionally I dig through subbed channels and puappear in my subscriptions. They have not appeared for a long time. Occasionally I dig through subbed channels and watch some, they still publish weekly or monthly. Yet they are never there. Likewise for most of the subtopics I am interested in. YT is garbage.
@@joel6376 I mean, I've had people say similar but I've never had that happen? And at least in my circle of friends, they've never had that happen either?
So I'm not say it doesn't happen, but that really seems to be a rare occasion; enough that I wonder if there's another cause that hasn't been identified?
@@aaronbrown4275 imo it is youtube trying to get you to watch more things (more time on platform). Maybe it only happens when you have a lot and they curate the subscription page to what you are currently watching more. When I say "they no longer appear" - they do, a single video very occasionally. That is what prompted me to check out their channels.
@@aaronbrown4275 usually they get down prioritised if you haven't watched a channel for a long time. I just did a cleanse so the ones I don't care much about don't create a lot of clutter for me
Myself and my group of lads have all pretty much fallen off the GW bandwagon due to over saturation and we just don't have time to keep up with all the rules as we're auld lads. I do feel like the warhammer content is waning for me, and I happily dip into any content now for miniatures, especially from great creators such as yourself. But no way in fuck would I 6 years ago when I got back into the hobby. GW are still seeing growth and I hope it starts spilling more into other mini companies. I actually bought my first Battletech boxset this year and I can't wait to get it painted up.
Haha. Love the luke quote stayed for your open and honest view of TH-cam and the way things work. I watch all sorts of videos about all sorts. Keep doing what your doing.
Great video and as ever you crack me up with your humour. Your channel is a breath of fresh air and find your viewpoints align with my own very frequently. I think that your honesty is what sets you apart from other similar channels, plus you have some great camera work/editing. Nice one fella, keep doing what you do.
I must admit I feel like people are sometimes thinking "GW is killing what I do" and not realising that "it's only thanks to GW's popularity that I can do what I do for a living"....
I'm not sure a lot of creators "get" that when you make the switch from "this is what I do in my spare time" to "this pays my bills" they have just *given up* their hobby, and now have a job....
Given the degree to which Warhammer, GW, 40K top what people look for, of course that's what gets views. The only solutions to that are play the game, or don't depend on views to pay your bills.
The transition from doing content for fun, to making some beer money on the side, to depending on views for mortgage payments is slippery. I wish there were more people advocating to pump the breaks before going all in, I think creators would be happier and viewers would enjoy more variety.
I have been a Warhammer 40k player since Rogue Trader, I've spent my focus on Horus Heresy for the last five or six years. I do play other games such as Bolt Action, Burrows and Badgers and Star Wars X-Wing. I'm becoming more and more uncomfortable with Games Workshop's business model and prices. My partner, Jane, and I watch your videos because they are consistently high quality. No nonsense content is what we look for with good creativity and delivery. Keep doing what you are doing. You're an inspiration to us both. Thank you.
All your videos are absolutely brilliant and you just make them so enjoyable to view. I do love warhammer 40k but i also love watching videos on other gaming systems, one in particular is magrathea builder of worlds and he does Burrows and Badgers builds which are so great. I would love more videos of other game systems/ minis to be put on youtube it just opens up new avenues to explore. Keep up the fantastic work Dave.
I can tell you put in a lot of effort into your videos. They look great, your monologues are funny (at least to me), and your tips are helpful. I'm looking forward to your next video and many more to come!!
I know the pull in my circles is that a large amount of players at my club either play a lot in GW stores or in official tournaments. Therefore they feel driven to stay exclusively inside the GW Licenced bubble whilst still trying to find something online that's different to stand out compared to others in these circles.
GW steal about 50 to a 100 quid a month off me, just right out of my pocket, the thriving bastards.
love your videos
I just joined after someone posted the Terminator DOA video
I love your satirical take on it
thank you
In my opinion make whatever you feel you have the passion to make that day I just love miniature wargaming and minis in general and your sense of humor is right on spot with mine so I really enjoy watching your content keep it up man (also i would love to see a video series on that AVP line it looks so cool)
Personally, I am in the hobby for assembling and painting. Don't have anybody where I live to play ANY war games with. So I am interested in hearing about different games/minis. I personally follow content creaters, not the products so much. Love what you do dude, throw in some Star Wars Legion and Malifaux ect and I will 100% watch. Hell, any new ones would be cool. Always looking for more. Cheers from Canada!!!
GW for me is all about nostalgia- I still remember having to beg my parents to get me the 2nd edition 40K box set for my 14th birthday. Fast forward 25 years - TH-cam videos are great for showing me new painting & modelling techniques, but I simply don’t have the bandwidth or time for none GW content. Lack of nostalgia means it just doesn’t appeal. However GW are in danger of over saturating themselves - The biggest content creators out there have been pushing identical content recently. I mean why would I want to watch 10 different videos about “new” contrast paints?
I watch your videos for you, the effort you put into the videos, and the chill nature in which they are presented. The general nerd culture you have in your background is the exact stuff I grew up with and have an interest in seeing. I did find the channel though geek gaming scenics where you guys went to a hobby shop and spent small amounts of money to make a Warhammer team. So essentially Warhammer brought me here and your content kept a fan. Health and safety frog cracked me up when I first heard the characters name btw.
So I found your page through a friend, we hobby together, mainly gw. I grew up loving warhammer and 40k, and i still do. So I do tend to click more videos that are focused on gw. However, most of my favourite youtubers dont actually make gw content, or if they do its not soley gw. Like that wierd guy Bill Making stuff, and his cool cat. Love the hobby tips, love the videos, and the dad jokes, and the things I enjoy from that can be applied to my hobby. So i get that the nature of the hobby scene is forcing gw onto youtubers more than they want. But i tend to stick around on chanels that hook me with interesting skills and perspectives. Like this chanel, bill making stuff, studson, nerdforge, 52 minatures ect.
I think this is one of the most thought through and reasoned response to the whole 'i hate GW because of this...' arguments I've seen up to now. thanks for sharing your views. I think sometimes people can get lost in hating something and forget to enjoy their hobby. It shouldn't be GW is terrible or this smaller company is the best but GW has killed it. Enjoy all your hobbies. The thought process is different if it's your day to day job of course, but I'm just sad that this seems to be a trend going around.
GW has the largest market share. They are THE name in miniature wargaming. I hope it changes. Lack of competition is bad in any marketplace and GW's recent piss takes with price hikes and swingy real rebalances mid-edition are proof of that. I want to make content for other systems. I paint shit on Instagram and only have about 1800 followers, but I can confirm that non-GW content does not get the same eyes. I end up adding #warhammer40k to most of my stuff, even if I won't use it for 40k.
I found your video very informative and an interesting take on the industry. Only the community will be able solve this issue in the long run. And it's a great community. Thanks again.
I can’t say how many terrain or mini videos I’ve watched. I can say this was my second of your channel and you spoke to me. Despite have an uncountable number of these videos under my belt you talked about how few people actually make boards and I took that as a challenge. Got my first killteam board under way, thanks for the inadvertent challenge. I agree with your thesis regarding warhammer, TH-cam, and the wider viewing habits. Cheers!
I’ve also run into this recently. Having been making niche boutique miniature game content, to very few views or interaction. I do one Horus Heresy video and it does numbers well beyond my usual views! I just did it to do it, as I’m starting an army build and wanted to share. I’m not even a professional TH-camr! I make videos as part of my extended hobbying. Shooting videos more akin to AvE. Phone camera on a mount pointed at my workbench. I’m a nobody. I enjoy just making stuff to make stuff! But I make one Warhammer video and BOOM! It’s… confusing.
Literally in any other section of TH-cam, creators experience the same thing. Burn out, mental health, all based around viewership and content. I understand how that can happen but it's still a choice being made by the creator to make this content. It's sort of odd how ten years ago everyone was like "wow, that's amazing, you're so lucky to have made it as a creator", and now it's assumed that anyone can "create content". There are so many smaller channels now and thats amazing, they get a lot of love but I feel like I'm being blamed for watching content around GW. And I feel like GW is being blamed for just being the most mainstream company in the hobby. I love this channel and I love Dana Howl and several others and I watch loads of videos that have nothing specifically to do with GW's WH like there are on this channel, painting videos and terrain etc. It's just yet again more negative content drama targeted at GW, I don't particularly care for GW, I like the sculpts but they don't produce everything I'm interested in, they provide a substantial gap and it's a very small and expensive hobby. And shill or not I've never been really interested in the idea of using people or a brand or such as a stepping stool, the same way loads of channels do, which centre 'themselves' around GW and complain about it.
Just stumbled onto your channel and damn you made me laugh. As to your point I think if people are actively looking for guides on painting a particular model even as generic as a skeleton they want to see the model they are painting as a more painting by numbers guide. Added to tons of content out there after a while of specific searches the algorithm kicks in and I would guess starts pre-filtering search results people see.
You are right it’s a strange area of the internet.
First time watching your Channel and it was very enjoyable. I think creators are experiencing what artists have experienced for thousands of years. Do I make what I want and hope it sells or do I make what I know will sell.
I think some creators are upset that they have "sold out" and don't know how to break the cycle.
Isn't it the case that modern GW have become the "Hoover" or "Dyson" of the "toy soldier" market, they have a clear advantage of being the first to amalgamate the many Fantasy / Sci-fi IP's I and others of my age loved in the late 70s and 80s to create their own unique and indepth "universe". GW's lore makes The Lord of the Rings look like a simple read over a wet weekend. And anyone that creates a great game in that market space cannot help be be compared and seem to be "ripping off" GW, especially 40k.GW have complete market saturation and a product that ties into the "addictive gaming gene" so it appears to keep evolving. But as you said it will eventually outpace itself, presumably just after the board of directors has sold all their shares. George Lucas essentially did the same with Star Wars, it had made millions over the years with no movies and then Marvel appeared, Star Wars IP was no longer No1 and so he sold it. Something will overtake GW eventually. As for You Tube, well that how statistics work, the most popular comes to the front, if it wasn't GW it would be someone else until the fashion for games fades. In the You Tube game, just like in any monetary / business venture, when you have to put bread on the table decisions have to be made. Its just like 80s musicians playing Nostalgia Festivals, its an artistic halt, but pays the wages.
The fact that Star Wars legion, a game set in the universe of arguably one of the most iconic and popular settings ever made isnt getting the views of of Warhammer 40k tells me the issue isn't just down to Games Workshop having too much of the market. I think the game and setting of 40k is unique, very unique and sets itself apart from a lot of other settings. I'm really into my painting as well as the lore and story of 40k, whereas I couldn't care less about Star Wars (well, go back before Disney shat all over it and then maybe). TH-cam as a platform pigeon holes you into an audience who specifically wants to watch what you make, so when you deviate from that the people who came for what you were doing originally might skip that video, but when you go back to it then the people who like 40k will watch. It comes down to the fact that you need to build up an audience for the content you want to make, you cant just translate our whole audience onto something they probably have very little interest in. Its rough I know but until people just accept that 40k is a niche hobby to begin with, then take a part of that fanbase who is into painting, and then fractionalise it again into the people who like 40k, painting 40k AND like Star Wars then the viewership is surely going to dip dramatically. You have a core fanbase that will always come back and watch your videos, so make the content you want to and your enjoyment will shine through for those people, and in time the audience for that content will find you. I found you when you did the collab with Benji and the other guys and it was great. Keep doing what your doing, take the non GW videos on the chin and keep doing what you love because it wont become popular and a sought after thing unless you keep on doing it. All the best
Another issue I see with games like Star Wars is that the number of overall factions are very limited while GW seems to provide such a wide range that there's an army for everyone, and eventually long term players collect more armies that resonate with them.
With Star Wars you have what, 6 choices max? 2-3 of which are just "Storm Trooper but different"?
I have been in the Wargaming hobby for nearly 50 years, I have worked in the Wargames industry for 20 years,
What still makes me chuckle is that when you mention to a person that knows nothing about the hobby, they always say "oh you play warhammer".
I usually end it there as trying to explain to a person that I play mostly historical is a complete waste of time.
Wargaming is wargaming.
Wargaming is not warhammer.
Warhammer is a part of wargaming, not visa versa.
Great vid btw
I just subscribed to your channel because I've never seen it in my feed before as a suggested channel. That aside, I'd LOVE to see your prodos video
I'm an opr guy. Learned it from wylock and have never looked back.
When it is unironically easier to buy of anime waifu tau prints on etsy than a legitimate tau fire warriors, it was time to walk away.
Also just keep making terrain you want and put "warhammer" in the title.
Cheers to OPR!
This is the WAY bitches!
Yo i personally watch u for your character your honesty your editing ur choice of music i don't care what you post i watched earlier but didn't comment cos i was going through shit but i came back to say this, honestly do whatever man, ur cool ur editor has it down the sound of deus ex original sound track in the past vid hammered the nail in for me, keep doin what ur doing man who gives a f#*k screw GW
This is an interesting video topic, as I really like your channel because you talk about other things than warhammer as its hard to find unless you know what to look for
I appreciate your honesty and the superb video quality of your videos. Apparently you had some feedback issues with the audio on this one, but good luck with that in the future. I’ll always take the time to watch and like whenever possible so please keep it coming!
There's thousands of independent comics creators, filmmakers, and writers who would have love to have a miniatures company approach them with an idea for merchandising. There's loads of miniature companies who are forever compared to GW, and desperately need identities of their own. Why the two haven't linked up in the digital age is beyond me
Tactfully put. Subbed!
Edit: Sadly I seem to be the outlier but I really enjoy non-Games Worshop builds and paints. I think you got it right though. So many people I know only click Games Workshop videos because they have been convinced by echo chambers and employees at hobby stores that if it's not Games Workshop then it's not as high quality.
Fantastic video, as it always is with your content.
As a mini painter and wargamer who doesn't play anything GW, I find I have to get through the necessary GW tie-ins to get to the actual content the TH-camr is trying to make. I honestly think it is just part of playing the YT game.
I'll gladly watch a 'here's a GW themed board' etc to learn new skills and techniques over what I call a 'weekly video for my channel' where the creator clearly has no content but needs to put out a video, such as a 'here's my pile of shame' vid.
Have you seen the channel Ghost Town Living? The creator has some huge unexpected success and their channel almost crumpled trying to maintain the same hit rate and work the algorithms.
Keep up the exceptional work, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos!
Awesome. The interview bits were funny.
You're hilarious mate and have articulated what I already knew... Look at squidmar and midwinter, I can't even watch their videos anymore. The thing that bothers me the most is the competitive min max side of the game, channels like AoW ruining the game play of warhammer, taking the fun out and focusing only on winning
Genuinely and wholly involuntarily laughed so loud at Luke's cameo that I had to pause the video to collect myself!
As far as the question why Warhammer... I've honestly never figured it out. I fell out with GW when I was a kid and getting suckered in my the 4th edition WHFB and their “first hit is free” sales model (or at least reasonable price per miniature). I hated the ruleset and the minis were ok but lacked the character of say Irregular Miniatures where I could literally buy an individual orc for 10p.
Now I'm over it and think GW do have the nicest minis on the market so can kinda justify the price point. if I like them, think I'm gonna get some play and enjoyment out of them and can afford them... I buy them. But I'm also looking at building an entirely 3d printed AoS army coz there's just way too many cool as fuck STL's out there and I'm lucky enough to have a FLGS that allows that so 🤷
in conclusion... Fuck knows, but the problem isn't just the algorithm... It's the viewers. Although rewarding more and more stupid, shorter and shorter useless shit like tiktok videos is a little infuriating to someone who prefers longer form stuff that I can half watch but mainly listen to while I hobby or do house work.
The Paint Bravely video was the one that made me a fan and a Patreon of yours, but that probably makes you the exception rather than the rule amongst the hobby/wargaming channels I follow. I appreciate you embracing the challenge of fitting in useful information with a GW spin to appease the algorithm.
Love the channel and would love to see you tackle the AVP set and paint that beautiful dropship.
I mostly do this hobby as my creative outlet.
So I'll watch Luke's stuff for basing tips and such, I'll watch Dana howl's painting stuff for great advice on colour theory, and that stuff doesn't need to be on GW.
But Games workshop stuff is far more versatile and useful for creativity when kitbashing etc, and I don't 3d print so I'm limited to plastic I can buy etc. So when I click stuff it'll usually be painting or creating stuff within warhammer.
Other systems don't tend to interest me as I don't care for rules, I rarely play, and the minis are either franchise tie ins (Like, oh look, it's a stormtrooper etc, never seen one of them before) or are more historical based and more focussed around rules/have worse models.
So I think I tend to just gravitate to GW stuff as that's my niche - I'll watch Duncan Rhodes' painting tutorials on whatever, as I can use the techniques on warhammer, but if you make a "I made a star wars board" I won't watch it, as I don't play it and probably won't. For all I know you made it to follow specific mechanics or rules. I won't be interested as it's just star wars etc. But "I made a beautiful desert gaming board" might make me click, because it might have tips I can use when *I* make desert stuff. Or "I speedpainted a Kings of War army in a day" or w/e, that might have speedpainting tips I can use. But a focus on a system I don't play with models that are harder to kitbash or worse won't get my attention.
Okay so as you asked I am giving my two cents.
One, this is a technical one. Your audio pings for me at several points. For Minutes. There's a buzz that once you hear you can't unhear.
When I clicked on this video, it hadn't been live long enough to watch the whole thing and there was 37 downvotes and 12 upvotes. Feedback on whether the people this was pushed to just kneejerk likes or dislikes something depending on whether GW is involved is pretty telling with that.
Edit, now it's 183 and 3. Which is wild. Could be the DV changed or that it was so new they couldn't track.
Caveat. I personally don't play GW anymore.
I'm a OPR guy because quite frankly, I got burned by having my armies trashed by version changes. ("We always need an excuse for another 2k army"
Havn't watched the vid yet but wooo Wrath of Kings! Such great minis and a really cool setting. If you're ever in Japan i'll gladly give you a game with my Hadross!
I love your videos, we watch regular from Spain....... I suffer from hand tremors and that's what drew me to the channel. Your videos are funny as hell take care and hope to see more soon
Love your humour fella 👌 can see where you're coming from...but myself for one got fed up with gw along time ago ...
I feel for you on this. The TH-cam community is quite saturated with Warhammer 40k stuff and other game systems seem to suffer.
Honestly I just watch channels for ideas on colors, terrain, and kit bashing. Doesn't matter what game it is. Keep up what you are doing!
I’m also seeing more “spectacle” style videos. Videos from Squidmar building and destroying a super expensive Tau Manta, is an example. For a while, there was a backlash against GW for their actions against fan films. That would have been a good time to get people interested in more systems like Battletech.
Great vid Dave. I think so much of it comes down to GW stuff being most of our ways into all of this. So the advantage that anything with a GW symbol in the thumbnail has, at the very least, is nostalgia. Nostalgia sells, as GW knows very well, looking at its recent and upcoming model releases.
There's way more to it than this, obvs, but it's a good chunk of it.
Great take on the topic.
I find that I'm more likely to watch a video if it has nothing to do with GW, as I stopped playing their games and using their products over 20 years ago. If I see someone looking at Inquisitor, or painting minis from that then there's my big exception, as they are still great to look at!
I'd love to see some of the people I watch getting great views for painting things like Moonstone, Frostgrave, Hero Quest, Board game minis, X-Wing repaints. Whilst the painting/modelling principles are the same whatever they are working on, painting should be a great chance for people to highlight the minis that they enjoy painting/they have been excited by.
Here's my personal take: IF one ventures into the world of, say Warhammer40k, there is so much to explore, so much to find, so much to read, so much to hear and discuss and learn that abandoning all that and going in on another thing is a big step. This is just me but I like the stories, the lore and all that so much that I'll stick with Warhammer for the foreseeable future.
For some other company to get to me with their stuff would be extremely difficult.
TLDR; I'm into Warhammer so I'm into Warhammer. Getting into that market is (to put it mildly) tough.
Wargaming isn't fun.
Now that you're reading this, I've been playing 40k for only about seven years (is that still an only?) and have had one or two friends try to get me into other wargames. I consistently find that the background settings of these games are either horrifically boring or are rooted in actual events where human suffering occurred. I love 40k because it is an incredibly rich setting that is absolutely not rooted in reality. It's ruleset is also somewhat complex and has granularity, but doesn't have 100 different colored chits that all mean different things.
There is more beyond this, but I don't want to write a book here. A tl;dr would be, I don't watch nonGW hobby content because I just don't give a fuck about it. Cool terrain video? I might check it out. That's why I'm here, actually, well that and your very relatable personality.
I'm watching your videos because you do great work, all the prep, production and quality are a treat to take in. A variety of topics is what I'm after .. continue with those, and all's good. I've hardly bought anything from GW in years (although the dust raiders from the Necromunda are tempting, but that would be for the minis that interest me).
Great video! I love how you address it as an issue of two sides (content creators and the gaming companies). There is very much a yin and yang of content creation. You nail that in this video! It is tempting to try to get views to grow. Sometimes even sacrificing work on a project you want to work on over views. To get views and grow you have to hustle and do what sells. But, then if your videos get shutdown and you can't profit off of what sells where does that leave it for creators? It's made me make the decision to not pursue content creation as a career as a hobbyist. My intent with content creation was to show people that the hobby doesn't have to be as challenging as it seems. Also, to share tips and tricks that I learned along the way. I appreciate everyone that views my content. Hopefully, was able to teach them something about the hobby along the way.
I agree: It isn't so much "GW is doing such and such a thing". GW has incredible market share. They aren't forcing people to not watch non-GW content.
I'm a non-GW gamer. I've been out of GW since the mid-00s because I felt their price raises and community interactions were toxic. The more things change, as they say. I actively look for non-GW content on youtube and ignore GW specific topics, except for anti-GW stuff. I can watch GW bashing all day, it keeps me sane when people are happily buying Black Templar boxes and paying for Warhammer+ and I wonder: am I just crazy?
The fact is, for things to change a company has to come on the scene and really hit every possible market without stumbling once. The hobby isn't the kind of place where you can totter your way to dominance like GW did, they didn't have GW to compete with.
Still, non-GW videos are worthwhile. They make the difference when someone watches your video and says: "Kings of Wars sounds kinda good actually" and looks for it on youtube. If there are a bunch of good lore, hobby and batrep videos made recently that person is more likely to continue looking into the game. If not there's a good chance they'll say: "Oh, looks like a dead game, nevermind"
It is not a youtubers job to change the industry. Make all the GW videos you want. However, if you do want to promote whatever game you're into I think it is better to clickbait using warhammer. There are lots of wargamers, the trick is to get them to notice something other than GW.
I've found over the years, that there have been a pretty dramatic shift in the player base's attitude towards the Hobby, Where years ago more folks would be willing to try other game systems, Now a days its far more difficult to do so. Part of it might just be people getting older, and wanting to stick to what they know, while for others, its now the costs involved. GW has, over the years steadily increased the cost of their game system, to the point where if someone is an active 40k player with a limited budget, they just wouldn't be able to afford another game system to go alongside Warhammer. With Warhammer events being the largest draws of gaming in my area, its lead to anyone who does start another game system, or attempts to get people interested into something that isn't 40k being required to more or less pick up multiple factions so that others can borrow the game to get going.
Along with this I've seen a rise in those who are against proxies in Warhammer games, At least vocally online as In person people tend to still stick to the rule of Cool. I've seen more folks singing the praise of GW's designs and bad mouthing other studios and companies products online. As someone who actively designs minis as proxies (and is working on creating a game system) its rather dishearten to have such a toxic and hostile reaction to posts. Especially more so when it comes to videos like this, where There are so many cool companies out there making really awesome minis that people just don't get to see, or are shunned for trying to pick up and play.
I don't know what the solution in the long run will be, I do hope that in the future that more studios get the attention they deserve for the work they put into it, I just don't know what will be required for that to come to pass.
It's partly because GW don't have so many absolutely dire models anymore but I think it's the result of GWs marketing and plastic kits being catered towards making newer hobbyists think GW= hobby.
I've seen literal grown men in their thirties whine that metal models are too hard to make. Yet twenty years ago 12 year olds just learnt to pin. Its all just ways for GW to create a captive audience.
Deviating from GW means going out of a comfort zone and people just don't want to do it. There are a lot of advantages to building a 40k army ir two because GW events are everywhere and there are a great variation in models, but instead of buying yet another, people really should consider getting into a side game. Even if it's less to play and more about painting something completely different.
@@morerobotwarscontent1476 Basically GW is the Apple of Table Top Hobbies, their ideal customer base buys GW models, GW Paints, GW Tools, GW Books, GW merchandise, GW Games, its much like how cults create a climate that isolates inductees from alternative perspectives or even friends.
well done, well said! And pull that trigger on those videos, id love to see more things from more content creators!
Very thoughtful, really interesting to view it like that. Thanks.
I spend most of my hobby time painting minis, I play very rarely. My major interest is the miniatures produced. Despite trying other systems minis I've yet to find anything as nice to paint or as well sculpted as GW that isn't made of pewter or on some inconveniently small scale. As far as producing toy soldiers go they are the best and way out in front, if the technology for producing plastic minis to a similar quality becomes more affordable for smaller companies maybe GW would lose business from hobbyists with painting focus because like many I find there pricing and practices a bit distasteful.
From another angle, they've also created a really solid, interesting and internally coherent set of lore in 40k too. This elevates the miniatures, from my perspective.
Tip for all Warhammer hobbyists: next time you have dispensable income, dont buy GW, get something else. Perry, Mantic, Warlord, Gripping Beast, NorthStar, Wargames Atlantic, whatever. You'll probably enjoy it just as much, maybe even more, and expand your hobby horizons.
This was incredibly insightful and I will be kind of taking this as advice. I've been thinking about making some stuff on the internet about the hobby.
I found your channel on this video because of the mentioned blackjack legacy video but I subscribed because of the skits.
The Warhammer part of the hobby is bigger than the rest of the mini wargaming hobby combined, sadly. Mini Wargaming is a relatively inaccessible hobby and requires a lot of time & effort: it's a lifestyle hobby. So people find it hard to get involved with other systems and games.
But more than that, it's part of people associating consumer brands with their identities. And GW have tapped into that very well - after all, we're in the Warhammer Hobby, not the Miniature Wargaming Hobby.
Nice perspective, great points!
Thank you!
Good video that brings up a good point about YT and the algorithm as it relates to views. The little bit of content I have produced myself so far was mainly to answer questions that I constantly see crop up in FB hobby groups ( mini pinning ) that I made just to link for folks when they ask those questions. I haven't played Warhammer since the mid to late 90s and tend to seek out hobby videos outside of that immediate sphere ( I do still play some Blood Bowl and still use some Citadel Paints).
I must be a strange one because the content I want to see is the content of people doing things differently from the way I do them so that I may learn new skills and adapt to newer techniques in the hobby space. Unfortunately this is not the case for most hobby viewers here on YT. I am not going to knock the viewers and their tastes but it is a shame as some of your very best videos are the ones that are educational! Keep fighting the good fight, cheers and all the best from us over here at The Tabletop Supershow!
Excellent, introspective and honest video. Your calm manner discussing this makes it easy to follow and agree with you.
It's as if many creators need the drama to help fuel their channels. We (as viewers) know exactly why thumbnails and titles are "clickbaity" but many creators fail to acknowledge that fact. The rage that fills their videos comes across as false because they need GW to help keep their content relevant. When 99% of their titles are negative towards GW it comes across as disingenuous when it's GW's products that help creators become successful in the first place.
There are a few creators that manage to find the correct balance. It all comes down to honesty.
Some creators need to realise that no GW = no chance to create a financially stable channel. Don't bite the hand that feeds.
Great video
Preach! Thank you for an equally calm and interesting comment!
I guess I'm fortunate that the kit bashes I do on my channel are something that I really enjoy making. I don't feel like I have to shoehorn GW into something else I'd rather be doing in order to get into that "GW = Views" pipeline. If anything, it's pushed be to go further and bigger with them than I probably would have done otherwise. Saying that though, I do enjoy painting historical miniatures and when I do a video on them the difference in views is VASTLY reduced. I would love to see some hard stats on what percentage of Wargamers/Miniature Painters collect Warhammer vs other ranges and see if this matches up with the video views we often see.
Glad i stumbled ontp your work (through 40k vids) and diorama stuff. I treat TH-cam as my main learning and entertaining media outlet. I also tend to watch stuff pertainimg to personal hobbies. 40k and GW franchises are quite popular. The algorythm favors the clickbaity titles and thumbnails.
Elegant but plainly spoken. Great video.
Thanks for your insight Dave. As a non-creator, I love learning how we can help creators, when choosing what to click.