Dressage Disaster: Sebastion Has A Meltdown On Lindsay Kellock In The Grand Prix Dressage Freestyle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Team Canada loves to make the dressage disaster reel here at Dressage Hub. Once again we see a Canadian Olympic Dressage Team member in the spotlight, for all the wrong reasons.
Lindsay Kellock who is trained by Ashley Holzer (see the Valentine series) had the ride that nightmares are made of last night in the CDI 5* Grand Prix Dressage Freestyle in Wellington, Florida.
Ashley Holzer videos: • Ashley Holzer
Sebastion is out of Sandro Hit and they are known to be challenging horses when you get to the Grand Prix level of dressage and tonight Lindsay Kellock shared with the world exactly why when the grand prix dressage horse had a complete meltdown in the dressage freestyle.
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Spur means move, spur means move over, slur means stop moving over, spur means collect, spur means extend, spur means slow down, spur means speed up, spur means stop, spur means go, spur means relax, spur means lift, spur means stop breathing…. There was so much bouncing, squeezing, hauling, spurring and constant harassment by this rider on this poor horse who was honestly just trying everything in his power to comply but could find no answer. There was not a single moment of beauty or flow in this demonstration. I’d like to remove that riders saddle, spurs and curb and change the reins to butcher strings to see if she knew how to ride.
I agree. I was absolutely cringing for the poor horse all the way through. Eventually he'd had enough. Horses just don't throw their heads up in the air (which is very painful for them with double bridles on) unless they absolutely can't take anymore. To give her a little bit of credit, she stopped, BUT she needs to go back to some basic coaching to stop her ridiculous and far too strong overuse of spurring, at the very least.
You’re being nice. I was actually hoping he would either do a quick, sharp dodge to the right, or a nice buck and unseat his rider!
THIS.
I don't understand? I am not a professional rider. IS THIS ALLOWED IN THESE COMPETITIONS!?? ARENT THERE JUDGES TO STOP THIS ABUSE? Orrrrrr is this NOT CONSIDERED ABUSE to them?!!!
👏👏Well said❤🐎🐎🇮🇪
The thing that blew my mind was how high the score still was with all that spurring going on. 70s for everything??? What happened to dressage being about imperceptible aids and harmony ?!
I can’t understand that either! I learned great riding means you can’t see any clues as they are so subtle. What’s subtle here? 😳
How about the fact that she made him go through his paces even though he clearly didn't want to. Great control of a sketchy horse.
for that, you'll have to seek out the Haute Ecole riders or followers of Classical Dressage. they seem to be the only ones who know that... sad really, i used to be so enchanted by dressage on TV when I was a kid but ever since learning about Classical Dressage it's like all competition is ruined for me... no magic what so ever
Must be nice judges.. This horse has a fairly high head carriage too, my Arab does the same and I constantly get "hollow back" comments when he isnt.
Political shitty judges!
As soon as he knew he was done his mood lightened. I see a lot of miserable horses these days. Dressage has become so competitive that the horses are stressed out trying to keep up with the goals of the rider. Can't blame them.
I don't think they finished the test. By the time she realized the horse is not gonna cooperate she just gave up and walked away. The part about competitiveness is true though, we should always respect their moods.
@@emiragastounioti8064 I just feel like I saw relief as soon as he realized he was leaving. I don't think he knew if the test was over or not. I think he just wanted out of there.
Horses donot have a motive to wanna do this its all unnatural and humans needs not horses needs to much demands stress noise and pressure
Exactly right!!! Horse owners do not take the time required to CARE for their horse; or any animal in our care.
I had an EPM horse. He was a thoroughbred and was a bit of a hothead. He started to get to a point where I had to urge him forward instead of always having to apply the brakes. He seemed to not have as much stamina. I had my vet look at him and she didn't see the problem. Then I had a dressage lesson. My instructor kept asking me to move him forward and I was starting to get frustrated because it wasn't happening. She finally got on him. She rode him for a minute and said something was wrong with him. (This was when EPM was just starting to have medication to fight it off.) My vet decided to treat him without getting the spinal tap and he started improving.
The care of our horses should be the top priority. They are in our care and they depend on us to care for them. They speak to us all the time if only we would listen. In my experience, every training issue came back to a physical issue or rider error. EVERY SINGLE TIME. I would help the owners of our horses along with the vets, Farriers, dentists, and even acupuncturists. There is NO excuse for not taking care of our animals. It's either laziness, lack of empathy or not wanting to spend the money; money used for showing instead of Healthcare. It's sad but very true.
He doesn't have a meltdown, he has had enough. This is why modern dressage is getting revolting to watch. He has every right to have enough, I can't imagine how he is ridden out if pubic view if that how's he's ridden in it. Poor dude.
Dressage is supposed to be subtle aids and subtle movements. Poor pony consistently broke out of his outline and his mouth was open a lot to get away from her heavy pressure. You’re not actually supposed to kick with spurs, they’re an aid to help refine an instruction that may have been unclear. She’s telling him too many different things has he’s trying to follow her instructions but he’s getting confused and pissed off. None of this is the horse’s fault, it’s entirely the rider
👍 yup! They’re such sweet, social animals, they want to please & love to work when they get good feedback. A good rider is a quiet & gentle rider 🥺😌
I remember watching dressage with no spurs and different use of bits. It was more a dance with almost no movement to be seen from the riders. The necks are held so much differently, the bits seem to be excessive, and the use of spurs now it's painful to watch and that's probably why I stopped.
I agree, she isn't ready to compete at this level, it should look like the rider is just sitting there, like Charlotte Dujardin, extremely subtle movements with the heels and hands. You can clearly see this woman kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. Especially with spurs, the spurs as stated is an extension of the leg aid. So it should be even more subtle, I little push or nudge required, not kicking.
@@estellechua2644 It's fascinating, isn't it? They're BRED to be sensitive and then tortured as if they can't feel a thing.
I just felt like I watched animal abuse
I think I'd have had a melt down too with all that stabbing with the spurs on his sides. Absolutely no need for that action if you're a competent dressage rider!!!!
The spurs doesn't always hurt only if it's a kind of spur that hurts so maby the horse had pain of somthing els than that a horse doesn't do like that (or worse) whit out a reason
Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab. Poor horse. I am becoming seriously disillusioned with equine sports. Just cruelty in plain sight.
That’s horrible.. I think the walk is a perfect example what’s going wrong here. She keeps on pulling, while putting her spurs into his flanks. She seems to be sawing too..
I don’t think the horse is in any pain other than the pain that’s rider induced. He’s not lame either. He just has a not very nice lady on his back. Or just poorly trained, let’s not write her off completely.
No, I’d write her off completely until she changed trainers or barns or something. I’d order therapy, too. Her behaviour is maybe fear-caused frustration and anxiety. This can manifest in anger when nobody’s looking and this likely has a source outside the equestrian world. Her poor horse is the recipient of these feelings.
Trained by Ashley Holzer ...
I'm quite green at dressage and horse riding, but from what I can see the rider needs more training. It's totally OK, we're not born on a horse back. She just needs to become way softer and gentler. This test might be too demanding for both of them like this.
@@Amira79 ...not actually totally ok for the horse though is it ???????? Treated like effing robots ,one of the most sensitive and trusting creatures on the planet .Someone should take spurs to the idiot on its back
@@frostyperma4789 You're absolutely right. Competitive sports are not very healthy at such high levels, not for human, especially not for animals. Horse riding should in any case remain at a level which is fun and enjoyable for those noble equines, and never pressed to the limits....
At first I thought, what is wrong with that horse's legs? Then I saw the rider's feet constantly moving as she was spurring the horse. Normally on a good dressage test, the riders feet are perfectly still and signals to the horse are imperceptible. The problem isn't the horse. It's the rider.
I have begun to view dressage in a negative light. I have never used spurs while riding. I think it is wrong to constantly spur a horse.
Spurs are not a problem if used correctly. We have horses that are better with spurs than with a crop and vice versa. The point is to know when to use your aids and not to overdo it.
It is. But if you watch correct riders. The spur is an AID not a cattle prod. All the time we spend training is when we teach the horse to move off our leg. It should NOT be a constant jab. If your horse isn't responding it's the rider or the horse has a physical problem of some sort. A horse should move off our leg. Also, a light tap with a rider's foot or squeeze with the lower leg is possible even without having to spur the horse constantly. The spur in concert with the rein is what creates the correct carriage and movement. Charlotte Dujardin and Carl Hester are good people to watch and there are others too.
The ultimate is to be so in tune with our horse that we can achieve movement with our breath. Spurs should only be used by extremely skillful and sensitive riders in a nuanced way.
@Sarah Wagland Absolutely well put!!
It's all wrong it should be all about connection not domination imop
The music was ghastly! Maybe he wouldn't be having a meltdown if her spurs weren't digging into his sides. It makes one wonder if this goes on at home on a regular basis. Trouble at home is greatly magnified in the show ring! I feel badly for the horse!!!
Glad to see a horse saying NO for once! I get that most people are SO up in their head with "i need to just win this too. Just a few minutes and we are through! He will manage". But you can truely see if a horse likes working for the rider or not. And he just said stop. So good for him!
(sadly he probably will get the punish when he is back home....)
This is a good horse, that was trained with the typical Modern Dressage Rollkur tools.
And that's the result.
Ban Modern Dressage!
That is not the way a horse is to walk. Let me put a saddle on a person , see if they can do all that fancy stuff with no mistake.
@Katharina Paul... These horses are royalty & treated as such. None of them are "punished". And horses who do not want to do this kind of work... certainly show that in training way before this level. First thing I think she would be thinking is where she lost his attention & why. And if you are ever involved with any rider or trainer who uses "punishment" on a horse ... WALK AWAY fast as you can. Punishment NEVER makes a successful horse.
He looked stressed and uncomfortable as hell from the get-go. Poor horse.
Disgusting sadistic demonic... such a low vibe. Eyeaching and heartbreaking. Pure cruelty. Shame on you dirty fei for allowing this tortures.
Leg aids are given with your LEG, not by raising your heel... I'm a lower level Eventer and if I used my spurs like that even just at home my trainer (British Horse Society trained) would take them away from me. If my legs/feet/ankles bounced around that much when I rode I would be embarrassed.
Disappointed he didn't buck her off. She obviously just sits there. Dressage seems so disjointed and rider and horse unconnected at heart.
Watch Charlotte Dujardin with Valegro. He's retired now but they were a perfect team.
@@Kat-mu8wq I just searched them. Oh my, what a team!! 😍
@@torpearce558 he won World championship twice. He was also originally bought for a mere 4k because his breeders didn't think he had any dressage potential. With the right rider and right training, any horse can achieve greatness. - he also jumps, but not professionally.
I’ve seen beginners use less leg than she is. Between the bouncing in the saddle, loud hands, legs flopping and the spurring, this poor horse doesn’t know what the right answer is. I’m honestly surprised he didn’t blow up within the first minute. I can’t believe the judges were scoring her so high for such a poor demonstration of skills. Where’s the subtlety that dressage is known for? There was nothing subtle in anything she did.
Why didn't somebody stop this? Judges? When it becomes abuse, do we not care for the horse? This little girl needs pony club. No spurs, no dbl, and a trainer that knows better. BRUTALLY painful to see. Sad.
She needs six months of lunge lessons, in Germany.
Very sad to watch this.Not only was she banging his sides every stride, but raising her heels to really dig the spurs in. Ouch! Maybe she's not aware horses are so sensitive, they can feel a fly land on their skin, but you've no business riding a horse if you are so ignorant. I do hope she can change her attitude.
Horses also can kick each other with full force if they want to. I have seen horses play by biting and bringing each other to their knees. They are not all gentle and soft creatures (still, less spurs would be desirable).
@@blauespony1013 by this logic though, then we should be OK physically assaulting humans who play rough sports. There’s a massive difference to the brain between forced and unforced/voluntary actions that cause tissue damage. Every rider knows the experience of coming home to find a bruise but not recalling how/when they got it. Yet if we were punched by our employer, we’d feel the immediate pain (and fear).
Neurochemistry changes the sensations of pain we are likely to experience based on the context. Forced into sport and spurred has absolutely no relationship to horse play or their own social dynamics.
@@KathySierraVideo Being beaten by another horse or being spurred is the similarity. And that is the same situation, because horses don't expect the one or the other. And depending on the amount of force, spurring is much softer than a kick from another horse.
@@blauespony1013 the kick from another horse in a natural environment( which no doubt this poor horse and the majority of sports horses never experience)is hardly comparable either physically or more important psychologically to what this poor creature is enduring relentlessly here !!!
@@frostyperma4789 Because foals do not grow up with mares, and move on after weaning to live with other foals/yearlings etc. They get born and live alone all their lives. And they don't have neighboring horses kicking and biting when there is food.
Sorry, but you can't be serious, you are just trying to defend a point that is just stupid. Foals get kicked a lot by grown horses when they grow up. It is called education. They get punished if they misbehave. Just search on youtube for "Mare kicks foal" etc.
And if you want to try how hard spurs are: Use them on yourself to get an idea from what point on spurs actually hurt (I did that with all riding gear, crops, whips, bits etc., because I wanted to have an idea how much pressure is okay). If somebody pokes a finger into your ribs, you won't die or feel pain. Only surprise.
th-cam.com/video/oJGvvry0yXk/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/jH5JkYQGMfs/w-d-xo.html (graphic, deadly kick from one horse against another - absolutely comparable to spuring)
th-cam.com/video/ggsVsAnelko/w-d-xo.html
Horses are all about a relationship of kindness harmony and ktrust for me - that was stomach churning to watch 😑
Typical of a rich parents that bought their kid a ready made horse so she can get ribbons... Its not possible she made that horse, not the way she's riding it. The horse is like "I get spurred if I do and spurred if I don't so whats the point...?"
She was still stabbing at him when he was already moving forward to exit the arena!
That poor horse. He was uncomfortable and got only more so throughout that ride, and his unhappiness was just so plain! I know this isn't entirely applicable but Elisa Wallace can ride her mustangs tackless and still get decent low level dressage moves from them with no misery or force. There's got to be a way to ride high level stuff without this kind of response from our horses!
This horse has a physical problem. My guess is an issue with his mouth or back.
this isn't decent low level dressage, this is grand prix. although i must agree, she isn't very skilled.
Maybe the leg's on the back and the right side more and the horse looks a little bit dizzy.
@@auminoris5036 I know it's grand prix, hence my comment about it not necessarily being applicable. But, if a person can get decent low level dressage out of formerly feral horses who have only been in training for a few months, why is it that so many high level horses are suffering so badly with presumably the most skillful of trainers and the best quality gear? I mean, I know some of the answers- money and desire to win is a huge problem in every sport, and the some of the highest level people are doing things like Rolkur, etc. Anyway... It's just sad.
@@mandywezel786 Thank you. He looked "off" to me but I'm not good at figuring out where a horse is sore and depend on more educated and experienced people to guide me here.
She was using too much spur kicking with every step
That wasn't the end of the test, right? She excused herself so his meltdown wouldn't get worse is what I see. Good for her!
Good for her? Are you kidding? I wish the horse had of dumped the rider off. It would have ben what she deserved.
Yes she withdrew because she obviously felt he wasn’t going to get more relaxed, so she listened after trying to get him through it. I honestly don’t think she did a bad job handling this at all
@@highnlow2989 she caused all the distress, yet you don't think she did a bad job? 🤔
@@resurgem oh you don’t know how much pressure a horse can be through besides the rider do you..? Yes, her use of spurs and what looks like sawing at some points are not something that calms most horses. However, I’m not gonna sit here and say that I know everything in the world because I don’t, especially about a horse I’ve never seen outside of an arena. And from personal experiences during competitions, when you’re horse is tense you do ur best at the moment to either give a little push and hope it passes, or you withdraw. She did both of that.
It’s easy to sit in a comment section on TH-cam and be a self-proclaimed expert, but the truth is that both you and me have never ridden this horse and wouldn’t know how to handle it either. Just cause she didn’t immediately withdraw doesn’t mean she “only cares about the money and success and medals”, cause I promise you, the well being of the horse is (almost) A L W A Y S put first. Besides, you don’t become a millionaire of horses in dressage unless you sell them.
So yes, I do think she did the best she could at that moment, and I’m glad she realized the horse wasn’t having a good day so she withdrew to not stress it any further.
@@highnlow2989 agreed
Guess he had enough of those f*ing spurs!!
That’s what you get nowadays. The rider is not improving herself but instead buys a horse who is trained well to get the competition results. The basics of good riding where not present. Im sorry for the horse
It's amazing to me how abuse can be disguised with posh posh, foo foo and prestige.
Riding in any way is a partnership - horse and rider enjoying the moment together.
Besides, to be very honest I miss the silence of dressage in the past. I truly believe that all that 'noise' drives the horse crazy.😞
Hi look at my comment up above, hub added music and I made same kind of comment.
No what drives the horse crazy is the constant jabbing in its sides with metal fucking spurs..can't wait til equine sports are banned
Spurs, kick, kick, kick. That saliva on the horse's mouth isn't rabies. It's a pain reaction to the bit.
Foam is subtle, that was drool. What's with the head tossing,, there's something wrong with the contact.
Literally as soon as she dropped the reins he relaxed !
Well it is not too much LDR. please go somewhere else and learn riding.
I've seen that more these days, haviing to keep bumping the horse with your legs just to keep them moving! I mean, what the heck is that? That's how I got my horse, she was so tense and over bridled and upset from the constant leg bombardment that she started throwing people because she was hurting.
He didn't have a meltdown, he was actually very polite. It just took her a while to hear him.
That hors is stiff very tense and uncomfortable not a happy guy
It’s painful to watch these so called upper level “pro” dressage rides. These poor horses are pushed too hard too soon, and forced , instead of enhancing the beauty of the horse and the sport. How can an extended trot or canter cover no ground? They all seem to move with stilted cramped gaits, and they all look miserable. I will say though, that I have gotten some very nice horses that were “thrown away” once they got their poor brains scrambled by these “pros”. Months of being asked to just be a horse; no pressure, no whips ,no anger, just hacking out or even helping haul wood to the house. Then they learn that dressage and jumping can be fun, and they will lay their heart out there for their person.
Anyone else see pain? He's in pain that's why he has a melt down. He's hurting. A lot too. Maybe mouth/tooth related? I'd start there due to his reaction when pressure applied to bit/mouth. Just a guess from his reactions.
Excellent observation.
She's riding with a double rein, likely a bit that is meant to apply a great deal of pressure and torque on the horse's mouth. Add to that her constant jabbing and digging in of the spurs. Horse is going to be frustrated and in pain. He reached his threshold and told her no more. She's a horrid rider.
Foaming at mouth and shaking his head, too. I hope this horse gets a different job with someone more attentive to him.... 💔
@@mamoros56 Well said.
She went to the Olympics? Only bribery and corruption could have got her a spot on any Olympic team. That rider does not even belong in the top level of competition. No way could she qualify on her own merit for a spot on the Olympic team. Maybe time these guys cleaned up their sport as this is obviously ludicrous.
I would have a meltdown to with the music she is using.
Awful.
You can tell he was in pain. That's why he started throwing his head.
I honestly don't understand why the FEI Insists on the double bridle.
Its not her music...its dressagehub who always put dramatic musics...
Nothing silent about those spurs
These show people will push horses until they crack physically and mentally. Its a disgrace.
This is abuse. When a horse behaves this way, s/he's trying to tell you something. When competing is more important than your horse's enjoyment and wellbing, you need a reality check!
Dont think I saw any relief from those spurs during whole thing. Frustration building and horse shutting down. Lots of European countries have some amazing young riders up and coming. Unfortunately Canada cannot add to this list with current talent.
Oh no, the poor horse😓😓😓😰.
What is the purpose of Modern Dressage Tennessee Walking?
I haven't been able to find any yet. Apart from raking in money with unnatural movements that are rolled and stabbed from slaves.
What else to discuss? Seriously now, is that a good or bad horse, too many spurs, too much tugging?
What shoud that?
Any horse! Is a good horse.
In every Grand Prix competition, 95% severe animal cruelty can now be seen.
Images like this are everyday
Constricted horses that can no longer take a natural, normal step, hysterically falling into stereotypical behavior and starting to kick, rolled in front, stabbed in the back, up in the back, down in the front.
One sees no more.
This whole sport is a dump.
No horse becomes healthier through dressage, on the contrary, they are all sick wrecks, early retirees, and mentally destroyed on top of that.
This sport must be banned.
Curbs, spurs, flashing straps, ties here, ties there, all that filth belongs in the trash and the little zombie riders themselves should be honored with their instruments of torture.
I just puke at all the stars.
What is reference to Tennessee walking? Dont get it
@@C-Rocks Tennessee Walking Horses, or Saddlebred Horses.
This trainings methods are extremely cruel. I call Dressage Tennessee Walking,, because their methods are cruel too.
@@saarlooswolfhund6237 okay I understand the reference now thank you. It seems TWH are not the only cruel ones. I get it
dressage can be extremely beneficial to any discipline in done in the proper manner and with fitting equipment. there definitely is abuse in dressage but also every discipline.
th-cam.com/video/FMo-w69I0WA/w-d-xo.html
19year old Satchmo, Grand Prix horse ... and now tell me he is not healthy and fit ... Dressage is very beneficial for horses, because the weight of the rider should be carried on the long muscles on the back instead of on the skeleton. That is what dressage and the way horses carry themselves during dressage training is aimed at. Also the dressage training shifts the weight of horse and rider from the front to the hindquarters which can carry more weight.
Usually a horse has a weight distribution of I think 60-40%. If you add the weight of a rider, the front has to carry more weight (seeing that riders are positioned behind a horses neck). So through dressage you want the horse to carry more weight on the hindquarters and thereby stay healthy.
Trouble is: Training methods that focus only on the horse's head and not on the hind legs and their ability to carry more weight are not doing justice to the aim of dressage.
Well this was painful to watch. Literally felt pain imagining someone stabbing me in the sides.
Petition that a neck rope should be the only tack allowed in competition :)
I have come to loathe dressage - the 'aesthetic plastic surgery' of horse riding - over controlled, over demanding, over - let the horses be big rather than constrained and restrained - teach them these moves if they have an aptitude and enjoyment of challenging athleticism but in the context of a big full life - not geared to winning at all costs and a narrow haute dressage focus (based on commercial decisions). These poor horses.
Well said
@@frostyperma4789
I feel the horses heart was not in it from the beginning. Prob over schooling. These are animals whose happiness needs to be considered too. This was a very unhappy horses. I have said before, time to ride in a snaffle at this level with no spurs and then let’s see whose horse is happy and well trained etc. I ride my 18 hh 6 year old snaffle no spurs and he is very receptive and not a hot horses. He has learned and is still learning to be forward on requests etc but Malik g good progress. I learned with another horse I have that was never forward that spurs will not get the job done. Working with the horse and little taps with the whip are more effective even if the tap is just on your boot. The noise is often enough to let them know you need a bit more.just my opinion anyway having trained a lot of young horses.
This horse has had enough of the bulls**t that is "dressage". Good!!! Dressage is hard on a horse. Geeze.
Floating neck, difficulties to engage, the hind legs that "dance" so much... excess use of roll kur ? That causes severe neck and back pains...
+ the bad riding
Trotz hoher Dressur-Klasse, es ist immer noch ein Tier.
Bei der Trab-Verstärkung, der Sporen-Einsatz, da könnte ich weinen...
Disgusting. What a witch! She's oblivious about the pain that poor horse is in. Dressage riders remind me more and more of Tennessee walking horse show people.
Oh that was as unpleasant to watch. A very resistant horse, clearly not enjoying it. Frankly, I would retire
That sinister bombastic music intro didn't help! Poor horse just a zombie!
When you consistently do the same thing over and over, the horse gets bored. I showed for years western pleasure. When we were not showing, we did judged trail rides, obstacle courses and just a nice trail ride with walk trot lope. Outside the show ring we still found ways to keep our horses exercised, but kept it fun. You do the same old same old your horse will get sour. Friends did nothing but show, no other riding except in a ring working to Excell at the western pleasure requirements or barrel racing. The only time my horse acted up was if there was an obstacle he did not do well, but had to complete for the class. Horses are meant to be horses. Many of these riders only ride the horse at a competition. Somebody else trains. You don't learn your horse or learn to be a team.
The main issue here was the spurs
Tight noseband with doble bridle don't mix. Maybe we need to search who was the first person who recomended this torture! At least have someone to blame it.! 🧛♂️
may i ask if you are so against nosebands with double bridles then why in a few of your videos you are using one yourself?
@@vyvianalstrom5618 I use the double bridle, yes, and If I use the noseband tight? No I dont, and one thing you will be suprised to know that I have used the same double bridle for the past 25 years. With young horses and old horses. a horse that has a close mouth doesnt have a way to shock absorb the hand of the rider, and one or two horse will complain about it. besides all being flexed at the middle of the neck insytead of being flexed at the pole. Hope this eas usefull. Good: th-cam.com/video/TlBB1GZtj24/w-d-xo.html
@@vyvianalstrom5618 LOL
@@trevinize in the video the horse is gapping its mouth which is a sign of pain and being uncomfortable. definitly not a way to obsorb shock
@@vyvianalstrom5618 Pain? Need to watch again! 😂
Too much spurring. Poor horse.
I would not want to dance to this kind of eerie and scary music either!
I keep seeing comments about the foaming mouth being a sign of distress. First, let me state that I don't disagree. But, that sign is DESIRED in these competitions - so much so that unscrupulous riders will use Marshmallow Fluff to fake its appearance! The dressage "experts" insist that it indicates a relaxed, "softly-chewing" mouth. More scientifically-minded experts suggest that by strapping the horse's mouth shut and overflexing his throatlatch, we prevent him from swallowing. Makes perfect sense to me.
I used to love dressage. Now all I see are miserable horses ridden by riders digging with spurs throughout the entire ride, mouths bleeding from rough hands and a total lack of consideration for the horse. Obviously, these horses are overtrained and find no joy in the performance. Shame on these riders. If this is what it takes to win, I will no longer be watching.
What part of he wasnt into it was this person not getting?? We cant even imagine
.. I think it's sad to see something so beautiful and talented being forced to do something it doesnt want to .
Ein verkrampftes ängstliches Pferd
Die Reiterin sollte sich noch von einem guten Reiter schulen lassen
Wäre vielleicht besser wenn sie sich ein anderes Hoppy sucht.Golfen vielleicht?
I don't enjoy watching dressage anymore....once those horses start switching their tails and the spurs start to dig, I'm Out.
The owner has retired the horse. He looked miserable in every photograph.
Honestly I cannot watch this entire test - it utterly sickens me!!! If this is where competitive dressage wishes to be - then I say ban the sport (and I'm a classical dressage rider of over 40yrs!!) The constant toes down and spurring on the horse's side, jabbing away at the reins, behind the vertical, constricted movement, thrusting seat and a horse in very obvious distress from the constantly swishing tail, gaping mouth and pained facial expressions......this entire test should have called for an elimination or at the very least incredibly poor marks, like 2's and 3's!!!!! I want no part of competitive dressage if this is what is scoring highly in the show ring......this is literally only a few nuances away from the soring and abuse seen with the Tennessee Walker's!!!!! Like c'mon people - bring back classical dressage in all it's beauty - the subtle dance between horse and rider where the aids are barely perceptible to the human eye!!!! Please!!!!!!🙏💖🐴💖
I don't see any issues with spurs, they make great tools to refine aids and are ususally used to make them respond faster to the cue before you put on a spur, or make you need to use heavy leg less. This though is a case of a VERY overactive rider overusing all of her aids, especially legs and feet AND having spurs. There wasn't a moment where the legs were resting, or quiet enough where you wouldn't notice it, just spur, spur, spur, spur. Makes for a very distasteful ride.
I don't know if it's intentional on her part or her just not knowing better, so I'm not gonna fully bash her (seen plenty of naturally preventative/overactive or just plain anxious/scared riders who get stuck in work mode and completely forget to soften, stop pulling, stop kicking and relax unless sternly reminded by a good trainer again, again and again. Especially when nervous. By her doing a grand prix like that I would guarantee she doesnt have that kind of trainer though.) Whatever is the case, that horse is absolutely suffering because of the sítuation.
I will commend her for ending the performance early when they both completely gave out though.
Why did she keep kicking the horse- and with spurs on??? Poor horse...it's despicable!
Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab. You should not see cues in dressage. At all. But that's all I'm seeing. It's disgusting. Let's see how well they do w/o them.
Right from the start, the horse isn't straight. He is disturbed by something because of the wringing of his tail and moving his head around. He's not engaged from the bit, through the back into the hind end. She doesn't look like a horrible rider. My guess is this horse has a medical issue possibly the mouth or back. Once in a while, a few nice moments were suggesting this is a good horse. But kudos to her!! She quit! She didn't keep going. She gets an a+ for that!!
Maybe the horse just had a bad day. That happens. Maybe the rider had a bad day or maybe they did not connect. I once failed a test because of a kid eating ice-cream (and my horse losing its nerve over said kid).
@Blaues Pony So? Not To say your experience wasn't exactly as you describe it. But if you can't spot signs of a horse's POTENTIAL problem, I am sorry for you and your horse. THAT IS how you avoid potential issues AND it provides better welfare for your horse.
@@janets6474 Well, I go with the professionals then: Diagnostics without seeing the patient is unprofessional. Look it up.
I feel sorry for your horse, if that is how you treat it. Not every bad day is a vet problem. Not every spook is sign of pain. A horse can be tense without having medical issues. Especially tournament horses who are vet checked regularly.
Diagnosing issues on a tiny screen without even touching the area and seeing how a horse reacts, but calling the horse in pain without even having seen more than a 5 minute clip ... it is utterly ridiculous.
@Blaues Pony I'm talking about so-called "bad behavior". I'm not talking about the occasional spook.
We had a very spooky horse at our barn; Very nasty spooker. She would spin and dump her rider. Turns out, Dressage work created a good amount of pain. To my point; this horse saw the ring and it equaled pain. It was the owner along with myself who pursued the vet and acupuncturist. That's how it's done. I don't do a vet's job. But it's the people around the horse who have a responsibility to call the vet and more times than not, it's written off as bad behavior. Her owner decided to try her at jumping which surprisingly was not a problem. Problem solved. No more spooking.
This horse is under extreme duress. Instead of writing it off as "bad behavior" (which is only presumed because we don't know what they chose to do), assess the situation; between rider, owner and trainer decide a course of action. In a case like this, I believe it's prudent to have a vet check it out. It's not like these people don't have the money. The horse's well-being should ALWAYS COME FIRST.
@Blaues Pony The idea behind this platform is an open discussion on what we see, good, bad or ugly. Dressage Hub has an excellent forum whose viewers have a good time in dialog about these rides. It isn't an online tutorial on horsemanship 191. However, we ALL can learn something involving the horse world.
Again I say IT'S FAR TO OFTEN that spooks are written off as behavioral. When there are other potential problems. Horses speak in one language - behavioral. And it is always honest. It's our duty as a horseman to listen to the whole language without throwing the animal under the proverbial bus because we are too cheap and belligerent to listen carefully, honestly, and compassionately.
That has got to be the messiest display I have ever seen. I thought dressage was meant to be a dance between horse and rider, where cues are meant to be almost invisible! In surprised he didn't play up more, poor horse must have been so confused and so annoyed by the constant spurring! I can't ride dressage for anything, as much as I'd love to, but I think even I corks have done better than this. Poor horse is all I can say.
I am not at all surprised by the horse eventually reacting to bad training and riding.
It was all too tight, behind the leg, and without any harmony at all.
As for the scores, when all judges see is tight necks, mechanical jerky steps and constant use of the spur, they are not always brave enough to criticize, or simply don't recognise correct training as they don't get to see it enough.
If they do dare to, often they themselves are criticized by the dressage establishment.
I know from experience, as when at a judge's training day I had the temerity to question the master judges opinion on a guinea pig rider who was riding in a very similar way.
I was told in no uncertain terms that criticizing a rider like that might damage the riders teaching career.
Never mind that they were going on to train other riders in the same fashion.
One of the reasons I gave up judging.
if my horse was drooling and frothing at the mouth, I would stop and remove him from the ring. something is not right, but these riders only think about themselves and the bragging rights of winning. disgusting
Good Lord! How much pounding in the belly with a metal spur can a kind horse take. and at the same time his mouth is clamped shut so there is no hope. That's not a partnership. I'm tired of watching modern Dressage.
Do they really need to use spurs?
if it can be done without spurs, without a bit, why not do it? plenty of people have been demonstrating that all the movements can be done with just a neck rope. I think there is pain from bits, pain from spurs, and horses have an instinct to not show pain, every so often they just lose it. . . tail swishing too
I don't blame the horse, the rider clearly does not know how to ride with spurs correctly. If she cannot even master working with spurs, she should not be competing with them, nor should she be at a grand prix level.
Another rider with stiff straight arms that do not soften. And yes, she should lose the spurs. Take away the spurs, Lengthen the reins, spend a few weeks on go, stop, right , left from the seat and this could be a nice enough pair. Super horse.
I'm sorry for this pair...tension kills the harmony, it's a tense environment. So much potential. I wish them luck
If she has gotten to that level, and she's riding that badly, then there is no potential. Not in her, that's for sure. Horses always have potential.
stop riding !
The horse is in pain and looks lame rider should withdraw and music is horrible
She did withdraw
Yes horse showing throughout tension, not relaxed. It was hard to watch. It’s putting me off aiming for the upper levels. I feel sorry for the horses and yet there are some riders having flawless performances with their horses working well for them and appearing happy. I always wonder if these horses get plenty of turnout in pastures to run around and relax and be a horse or are they treated like ornaments with little to no turnout? I feel we have to consider these horses are animals, like to be in a herd and should be kept as naturally as possible. I have a lovely horse I am training but I constantly watch for signs I’m over doing something and try to vary his routine with some trail rides or take him to different facilities for a change of scenery. Of course he’s out 20 hours out of 24 for small herd just coming in for supplements etc.
This was a good example of a physically distressed horse and the rider recognizes it and excuses herself. He probably has an issue with his mouth or back is my guess. The mark of a good horseman is care and concern for the well-being of their animal - first!
@@janets6474 Diagnoses are for vets (that have actually seen and touched the horse), not for youtube keyboard warriors.
It differs. Even sport horses do get more turnouts these days, because riders recognized that it is beneficial for them. You can't put a stallion in a herd with mares though.
And btw. herds can mean stress, too. My mare is a lead mare and we had to take her out of a herd, because she was occupying herself more with running after and scolding all of "her" horses than with eating and she lost a lot of weight. We have her in a box with enclosing paddock though.
@Blaues Pony Speak for yourself. I have been in the horse care field for decades. I am excellent at spotting "potential problems". As for vets, they are not perfect. If a horse owner. Or horse care professional spots a problem, the more information you have the better. I had a vet who could not diagnose an EPM case. I knew he had it. So I started looking through documentation I had collected Ted on the subject. I found a picture of a horse who HAD been diagnosed with EPM. The only symptom sign was his left hindquarter was slab-sided indicating he had muscle atrophy. The vet concurred a d said he would treat the horse for EPM. A vet worth any value WILL work with horse owners and professionals. A vet comes out on A farm call. An owner/caregiver sees them every day. I watched the Urine and fecal output on every horse so I could thwart potential problems. I also knew the horses in my care personalities, Eating habits, demeanor, among things. I knew when something was wrong with animals in my care and that's why I had a very successful business. So watch out what you say and especially when you don't know what you are talking about.
@Blaues Pony Again, this is something that can be dealt with by a person who knows what they are doing in regards to caring for more than one horse. At our farm, we never put more than 4 horses together in one pasture and that was a large pasture. We never put 3 horses together either. It inevitably meant 2 horses would pick on the third. We only had one horse that had to be turned out alone. He had been so traumatized by where he had been turned out (as evidenced by the horrific starting on his body). He didn't go after his posture mate though. He just did everything and anything to get out. We also had 6' gaps between fence lines to keep horses from getting too frisky with their neighbors. Even in our barn, we were careful of how horses got along with their neighbors. We never put a horse next to his pasture buddy either. We took great care in every part of the well-being of our horses' minds, bodies, and spirits. The result; very happy and virtually stress-free environment. We had a good reputation in our community for the care we gave our horses. People were amazed at how quiet the horses were at our barn. It produced confidence for our riders and trainers in their horses.
Unfortunately, horse are living, breathing, sentient beings who, like humans, have good days and bad days. This poor horse was obviously trying hard to please but became so discomforted, he just could not perform anymore that day! 'So sad because we know the horse got a terrible whipping when they returned to his barn!
you'd think the saliva streaming out of the horses mouth would indicate to SOMEONE (rider/judge/spectators/attending vet) that the animal is in pain, that the double reins and brutal bit designed to force rolkur (which is supposed to be against the rules) are just as damaging and to horse just as miserable as we already understand it to be... but apparently not. this is disgusting. shes kicking him constantly to keep him from stopping or backing in response to the pain in his mouth.
I don't know what is going on in the Dressage world these days but it seems like many of the riders don't truly know how to ride. This is partly the fault of the judges for allowing this terrible riding to continue.
I am of the old school of riding in shows. Back in the day a judge liked seeing little to no bounce, quiet hands and heels down and quiet. This just my humble opinion if you need spurs, and tying the horses tongue down to communicate with your horse, you might want to take some more lessons.
Interesting you say that as I think that a few of the riders that ride with the same coach have been trying tongues but don't have good enough pics to prove it.
@@DressageHub I do not mean to be negative. It is just back in 70’s and early 80’s I was taught hands and heels down, give cues without it being obvious. Give cues no one can see to the untrained eye. As a child all my instructors said the best way to learn is bareback to have a “Nice Seat.” They also said if you need a whip or spur to make a horse behave get back to ground training, all you should need is you hands, legs, and a connection with your horse. I am not a Grand Prix but, I have been riding since 1968, trained my first horse in 1975. I am just expressing my opinion. I have trained and rode English Pleasure, and Hunt Seat, and trail, Western Pleasure, Trail, Gymkhana, Barrel Racing, and Cutting. I never had to use spurs or tie down the tongue. JS.
What was with the constant drumming of the legs and spurs on this poor horse? I have never seen anything like that. Cues are supposed to be subtle--or at least I thought so. This horse was plainly confused by the rider--as am I. I have to give the horse bonus points for patience. I would have bucked her off. I would like to know the rider's side of the story!
Sebastian the horse says "stop kicking me woman and what's with this dreadful music"????
This was so hard to watch and I don’t even know anything about horsemanship 😮
Right at 1:50, you watch her dig her heels upward into his ribcage and push those spurs into him. The pain he must be in!
Rider, get off of his head and mouth and ride from back to front instead of pulling him backwards. This is all on you. His poll should be the highest point, not the third vertabrae. No wonder the horse finally said enough. Modern dressage is so bad for horses, go back to classical.
Poor buddy. I've never done dressage and don't know much about it but I've never seen dressage ridden like that. Horrible.
I would like to see dressage done in rope halters and no spurs. Seemed this rider constantly nagged her horse.
From the first few seconds you see distress… he’s foams so much.. poor SEBASTIAN ….. IT SHOWED HOW LAZY this rider is…. DRESSAGE IS BEAUTIFUL… NOTHING IN THIS WAS BEAUTIFUL.. IT WAS ALL ABUSIVE.. SHAME ON THE JUDGES..
I know nothing about the sport of dressage, other than tuning in to admire the horses. All I could focus on in this performance was the rider kicking the poor horse's sides and the horse foaming at the mouth eventually. The horse was a saint. Why wouldn't this be called out? Is this common in the sport of dressage? No fine? No disqualification?
Why is the rider all over this horse with her spurs.? What ever happened to just leg pressure and rein control.
He is definitely not happy!
She should be ashamed of that behaviour. Disgusting abuse of power. The poor horse tried and tried to give only to be jabbed in its side constantly.
There is one bit, he is walking, and she actually lifts her feet to jab him higher in the belly to move him into a canter. Who the hell does that?
If you don‘t show the whole Video - than just skip it 🙄
The horse is clearly well trained and knows what to do, but the rider doesn't.
That headfling is a sign that the horse is asking for space to move, great that the rider understood when to give up.
The only time the spurs weren't constantly on, was in the gallop.
The rider needs to learn how to ride this horse, they have been trained differently, and it's always us humans with our capacity for understanding, that has to adjust to the horse, and not the other way around..
(in the horses mind, the lack of pressure during gallop, means it's doing something right, which is what makes it go eagerly forward)
I hate dressage. But I love riding.
The rules need an overhaul. If you are spurring your horse that much, you should be disqualified. WTF?