Homosexuality Is Not Moral And Here's Why
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Homosexuality is not moral. Nor is it immoral. It has absolutely nothing to do with morality, and it's foolish to pretend that it is in an effort to disguise bigotry.
@CosmicSkeptic
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Homophobes when they realise he doesn’t support them: We’ve been tricked, backstabbed, and quite possibly bamboozled.
Lol
hence the 4k dislikes
"They had us in the first half, not gonna lie"
@Rizekrispy we as in multiple homophobes talking among each other
someone has watch RVB sarge forever
This takes clickbait to a whole new level
E.D.W 🤔
how?
It does but for a good cause for once, so its quite moral i think :D
@@cubex2160 its not click bait
Its not clickbait cause he explains it so technically its not
Came for a piece of satire, stayed for moral philosophy.
High quality comment
@@braydenkochut5998I second this
@@kat0na_cat I third this
SPoggaflag!!! fs
@@braydenkochut5998 I fucked this, I mean fourth this?
"As soon as you start trying to make a link between homosexuality and morality, you've already lost the debate." This quote was needed more than ever! ❤
It's a weak argument.
Weak because morality is not actually about legalism so the logic of legality does not suffice.
It's about mechanics.
Something is either mechanically viable or it is not. If it is then it is moral. If it is not then it is immoral.
Humans assess what works for them as individuals, families societies, nations and the world then codify that wisdom into laws, rules and morals. But something is not moral because of a code, but rather what precipitated that code.
The foundational question is not if homosexuality is moral according to the group code, but if it is actually mechanically viable/beneficial, neutral or detrimental.
If it is detrimental then it is immoral. But actually, even some immoral things can be absorbed by individuals and society. Not everything has to be condemned.
I started going into the comments during the video. The second I started reading this comment, he started saying it.
and cucks are spamming like button because cant think for themselved
By the same logic: the slightly different phrase “ as soon as you start trying to make a link between pedophilia and morality, you’ve already lost the debate”
So pedophiles are suddenly okay now 🤷♂️ according to the same principle
@@ButterBabyyy amoral doesn't mean "okay" its just something that ppl can't control. But they can control whether they act upon it or not , according to the consequences or effects they might have to others, for example,there are lots of pedos in the world that have never do anything to kids, and psychopaths among us that have never killed, and gays that never came out.
I'm still gay for you Alex
PfEMP1 shit, relatable
oh wait, i’m gay for everyone...
never mind then
lol
FlanelFil That's impossible. No matter what, you cannot be gay for everyone. There will always be someone with a different gender than you.
Jason Skywalker you can. it’s called bisexuality.
One of the definition of gay is happy so yes you can be gay for everyone and not be wrong
Homophobia on the other hand IS immoral because it's a conscious choice that hurts people.
is it a conscious choice? You could argue acting on your homophobia by discriminating against gay people is immoral because you chose to act on it, but I always thought someone just was homophobic by upbringing or other factors beyond their control etc
@@bobthellama6988 good point. I've been thinking about how religion and choice mix together, essentially I don't think you can really CHOOSE what religion you believe in. Sure you can try to pursue evidence for a certain religion in an attempt to believe, but you can't fake true belief. I can't just today decide to be actively a Christian again because I don't believe, and no matter how hard I try, I can't change that. I wonder if being homophobic is like being religious in that sense. I don't know why anyone would choose to actively try to be homophobic, but I wonder if you really can. You can try to keep an open mind and research, but if at the end of the day all the evidence you find leads you to the conclusion that homophobia is justified, then I don't think you can just choose on a dime to stop being homophobic. If that makes any sense. You can be convinced you're wrong, but that's not much of a choice.
Honestly that probably made 0 sense, but I'm gonna go with it.
Lol a homophobe is triggered and ignored everything said in this video
@@sillscrimmager2533 What this man commented doesn't conflate with what was said in the video. Both things are true.
Homophobia isn't a conscious choice. It's a set of beliefs and attitudes- an ignorant and unfortunate sort
I read the title of this video and thought, "Oh, geez! Here we go again." But, after watching it I was very happy I did so. Your points are cogent and your reasoning is outstanding. Really well done, Alex. I am now inspired to view more of your programming.
My (bisexual) mom would have loved your video. One thing she hated more than homophobia was being “approved” as a non-straight. And so do I.
Bisexual mom LMFAO
@@abdoonyt9049: You don’t know what bisexual means?
@@SimonFalkentorp i know what it means, it just sounds hilarious
@@abdoonyt9049Can’t lie it got a chuckle out of me too
@@abdoonyt9049 Literally what is so funny about that?
The title is a good way to attract homophobic people who expect their argument/beliefs to be supported, just to educate them using rational thinking and logic.
Well, I'm already well-educated and I don't need to get an agree from a topic I already know it's true.
That’s why you came isn’t it?
*their
The only “moral” use of clickbait
I love rational thinking and logic
This is, potentially, the greatest clickbait of all time. Nothing but sheer applause from me
This guy sets himself up as the authority of logic and truth... quite hubris especially coming from a 22 year old... actually younger when this video was made.
@@marshalljobe1102 He never said he was the authority of logic and truth, but he uses logic and truth to set up his arguments which is much more than I could say for some of the religious assholes in this world who claim sexuality needs to have an assigned morality
@@davidkonevky7372 I don't know... if God exists, he design the way things should be and He defines morality. From a non-believer's perspective, they don't consider morality defined by absolutes and all morality is relative. You could call them assholes just as much for those things they deem immoral, it's all based on your perspective on who's being an asshole to whom. However, those that believe they don't have the right to define morality and that only God does, are not assholes, the blame would have to be placed on God, and I'd not go there.
@@marshalljobe1102 for that god would have to exist, and we don't know that, we shouldn't skip steps. But for the sake of the argument, let's say he exists: why did he give us the unchosen burden of living and then judge us when we do it our own way, he either is an incompetent god who doesn't know to design a paradise, or an evil god who just chose to make us suffer.
@@davidkonevky7372 Assuming you can comprehend the extent of what God is or his uncomprehendable existance.
He makes a fantastic point. There’s no reason why every human behaviour ought to be evaluated in moral terms, and there’s no reason why human psychology (in this case, the psychological attraction to people of the same sex) must also be evaluated in the same terms.
Why not?
@@algarridmwatch the video
watch the video@@algarridm
I appreciate your opinion and certainly agree. As gay man myself, my sexual orientation has been beyond my control.I didn't wake up one day and decide that this I was going to be gay. I don't understand why I'm gay but I do know that I did not consciensely to make the decision. Let's just agree to say that most people are heterosexual but some are gay through no actual fault of their own. I have never felt immoral because I'm gay. My sexual orientation has never effected anybody else in a negative way.
I'm in mental pain because of you! *sarcasm*
Nothing we do can be for certainity claimed to be absolutely consious, I'd even argue that for most people most of what they do in life is not completely consious, and it can be simply proved by asking any person questions about any of his deeds (and the related circumstances around it) which are claimed to be conscious by said person, like "why did you put it exactly here and not there? are you even sure you put it here and not there?" and the more specifics you dig out of this deed the more likely you will make the person just admit that he wasn't entirely aware of everything he did while doing the deed that is under question..
The definitive division of the mind and its activity into strict 2 categories of unconscious versus conscious is unscientific and there isn't any evidence to back it up, as far as the science of the mind goes - our mind is super complex and consist of many levels and divisions, some can be claimed to be more conscious and some are less, but the idea of an absolutely consious mind is more in the realm of Buddhism (and even there only few people in this entire franchise claimed to reach such level), and so is the idea of an absolutely UNconscious decision, even things you do in sleep are not completely unconscious, for example when you realise that you are dreaming it can be said that whatever you do in the sleep or in the dream (and sometime you can make real moves OUT of a sleeping state, especially if you're lunatic) is more conscious than sleeping while NOT realizing that this is a dream, but can it be said that it is AS CONSIOUS as something you do when you're not in sleep, that you should take the same responsiblity as if you did it awake? I doubt anyone would want to claim that, and then there is also the question which state of sleep? As sleep itself is divided into several phases, more or less consious, and moreover even the awaken state of a person is divided into various phases throughout the day, in which we are also more or less awake/consious. There is even a thing called day dreaming, how you should deal with that? "Honey I just undressed that woman in my mind, but that was day dreaming don't worry, I am not morally responsible for that more than I am during night dreaming"... Yeah sure, good luck having such "morally responsible" relationship with your wife, I am sure it will create a wonderful and "well being" of a relationship!
Bottom line - when you claim your subjective mind to fall under ABSOLUTE categories such as consious/unconscious, when it clearly SHOULDN'T, while on the other hand taking morality in a relativistic way and saying that there isn't anything absolute about it - this is the definition of being an immoral moron.
Now when it comes to homosexually or any sexuality - you can't claim that it is completely unrelated to our consious decisions!! On basis of what?? There are numerous studies that people are capable of consiously influence their sexuality! Following such logic any pedophile can say - "sorry that's not up to me, this is the sexuality of my body that I have no control over whatsoever!" Do you really want to follow that route??
Or same with incest - "Yeah I'm gonna jerk off at my sister what's the problem with that? it's my sexuality, I didn't decide that, that's at least what my father teached me..." good luck raising your kids with such understanding of sexuality. Just don't be surprised if one day you caught them having sex with each other.
Also you are a moron if you think only about your own "well being". The most "well" state of a productive and prosperous society is when each person realizing his personal duty to multiply and make kids so that the society grows. Sexuality can be consiously influenced, at least according to my own experience, I am heterosexual and never ever experienced attraction to same sex even for a slight, but one time I decided to experiment with it and see if I can squeeze out of myself some arousal towards a guy, and to my surprise I could! It was very hard though, but on the next experiment I noticed it went a little easier, so I dropped the experiment out of fear of perverting and ruining my sexuality.
@@DavidTheKing100is this supposed to be sarcastic? I couldn't tell.
What if the bottom’s sore the next day?
@@supayambaek The whole thing? no. only what comes after quoting an "immoral moron".
If you fall under this category or not depends on what you would answer to your partner if let's say you day-dream about another person in a sexual way and she/he notices and asks you "what are you thinking about?".
You basically have 3 options - you can lie to her/him - this would be immoral, especially when it comes to personal relationships with your significant other. (An argument can be made for morality of a lie when it comes to "lying to nazis about some jews that you hide in your closet " or something of this sort, but that's obviously not the case here).
Or you can admit, but either you admit while being sorry (acknowledging that it is wrong on your side), or you can admit but justify it with the mind set from this video which brings arguments like "babe, this is day dreaming just some thoughts that pop up from my subconsciousness over which I have no responsibility (according to this video), for example I also was dreaming about f**king my ex last night when you was sleeping by my side, even came in my pants from that as you may have noticed, but don't worry babe it's all subconscious sexuality which I have no control over..", now commenting this without sarcasm - such a position of an immoral moron would lead to a failed relationship, and you SHOULD feel guilty about that. OR you may find another immoral moron like you who would be ok with f**king anyone around and won't demand any sexual dedication (what you'd call "open relationship") - but this is a case of 2 completely immoral morons who may some day even by a "mistake" get an innocent child involved inbetween such a f**ed up relationship, and in no way that "mistake" (a torn up condom) would justify what the child would have to experience growing up in a house of undedicated parents, or in orphan house, or experience getting cut into pieces (in case these morons would go for abortion). I may remind you that this video arguing a "well being for yourself or another one", a baby in a womb of a woman is another one, but what even the point of trying to argue that to a bunch of nihilists who have no distinct point that makes "me" as a subject another one in relation to him/her, as we are all bunch of meat with neural structures that came out of the same monkey pussy, with no absolute defining point between that monkey and our current form..
He has a point. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with morality. Any person can be moral or immoral depending on the way they conduct themselves around others. Simple as that.
What about the case of pedofilia or necrofilia or zoofilia?
+don lll
Those are not sexual orientations... and they are immoral because they are actions that cause harm to the innocent.
But is the attraction immoral? E.g. a pedophile that never act on their attraction.
Volrath1988
The attraction is still wrong and unhealthy. It should still be dealt with even if they don’t act on it.
+Meccarox I wouldn't say the attraction itself is immoral, but it does need to be dealt with and treated if possible, since sexual attraction is an extremely strong drive that most people cannot simply refuse to act upon.
Great question for every hetero person: "When did you consciously decide to be straight?"
@Ares Same, it's basically a question that destroys the idea that it's a choice
That’s a question that stems from a misunderstanding of Christianity’s position on homosexuality. Contrary to what Alex might have you believe, Christianity never says, ‘you ought to be heterosexual’, it says, ‘you ought to refrain from homosexual activity’. A homosexual desire is not a choice, but a homosexual act is a choice.
@@henry2231 Okay, but many people say it is a choice, so it's a nice counter argument to that claim
@@henry2231 To which the reply is, 'If God is infallible, why did he make homosexual people that he then orders to never have sex???'
Christianity is no different that Islam or any other screwed up 'morality' tale that is completely immoral on it's face!
Every hetero person?
I see most conversations going like this:
You: (your question)
Hetero: huh? It just was
You: So why do you assume being gay is a choice?
Hetero: huh? Me? How did we get on this?
The problem is that those condemn homosexuality have a completely different opinion regarding the two criteria of morality as applied to this question. They believe (or have been told to believe) that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice". And they believe that the presence of this phenomenon has a negative effect on society, perhaps similarly to extra-marital sex in general or gambling or drug use. It seems clear to me that while they have used scriptural references to assert this, it is really just a desire to maintain conformity in the society. (Mind you I'm not saying conformity is always bad, but, as Alex points out, if a person has no choice over the characteristic or behavior in question, it is wrong to condemn them for it.)
In the end, it's not humans who were the ones to condemn it, it never has, in the end it's God condemning it.
@@YoshiCh1ef-je6me How do you know God condemns it? How do you know there even exists a god?
@@urbangorilla33 For starters, Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Then we have the whole Sodom and Gomorrah story where they are associated with sexual immorality, which in the Genesis story, the men of Sodom want to sleep with the angels that come to Lot's door.
Since you are asking if there even exists a God, I'm kind of assuming you're an atheist, so I'm just saying, if you're a Christian, then yes, God sees it as a sin.
Not trying to spread hate, i'm just laying out what the Bible says. If you don't agree with me, that's fine
Didnt the story of sodom end with lots daughters getting him drunk and trying to get pregnant in a threesome?
Why did he make people gay then? Maybe he has gay tendencies himself?
Having noticed the luring title and being, by now, familiar with your thought processes I watched the video and found exactly what I'd hoped to. Thanks.
Sorry if I scared you (I didn't lie though, so it's not clickbait). Also sorry about some focus issues in this video. I wish the best of luck to all of those planning to get married after the rest of the Western world welcomes Australia into the Twenty-First Century.
CosmicSkeptic
But isn't a misleading tile still clickbait? Clickbait isn't the same as lies, it is usually a misleading truth.
func IsClickbait(bool: isNotALie) {
if isNotALie {
return true
} else {
return false
}
}
I agree with you Alex, but someone I know makes the claim that Homosexual acts (not being homosexual per se, ex: deciding to have sex) is immoral for various reasons. How should I show him that Homosexual acts are not inmoral?
The well-being aspect is not relevant at all. The issue at hand is their is no cause of action. Secondly, marriage or contracts is not a privilege but a right that exists a priori as generally recognized by law in common law countries.
Diego Linares ... ask that person if he or she would forgo consentual and loving sex with the person they found attractive. Ask on what grounds would you expect any sane individual to do so.
For anyone still confused:
NOT MORAL = Not subject to moral judgement; outside of the sphere of actions that could be deemed either 'moral' or 'immoral'
IMMORAL = Something deemed bad/harmful/'wrong' according to one's moral code or intuition
^ Alex is (obviously) not saying that homosexuality is immoral
"of course being black isn't moral" -Alex O'Connor 2017
I am amazed that part hasn't been clipped and used out of context by people are don't agree with Alex haha
Shane Sawyer
I am amazed people still compare being gay to being black.. unlike the latter we are not debating whether or not people are born black or if people choose to be black.
@@senoradivine9082 But no one chooses to be gay either so its fair to make the comparison.
Hey, Mr. Captain obvious!
Senora Divine Rachel Dolezal says hello ;-p
Just because something's being debated, doesn't make it debatable.
And if debate is the only criteria for comparison, do we need to start comparing homosexuality to flat earth?
Perfectly clear and well-explained. Alex is a voice of reason and progress in a media world awash with propaganda, stupidity and falsehood.
Fuck yeah, honestly I feel that social politics are emotionally heated and honestly distracts people from meaningful ethical issues
As soon as I read the title I understood what you meant. 👌🏼
I’m a *homosexual™️* and I approve this message
so do I
"trademark"
I'm fucking dead
I am gay aswell 🥰🥰😊🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
@@NienNienNien happy pride month!!
I GOT THE MAAGIIIIC IN MEEEEEEE
You could be one hell of a lawyer
@fynes leigh it? Fucking clown
@@SurrealExposure12 lmaooo get em Vamsi! 😂
@@SurrealExposure12 period go TF off💅😂
@fynes leigh that's rich coming from someone that can't even identify a person's gender
@fynes leigh I apologise for the content of my reply having nothing to do with your original message, but...
It is unnecessary to have such large spacing.
If you're trying to make a point, insulting someone's intelligence won't convince. If you are held up about grammar, perhaps split up your sentences. For clarity, after never mind there could be a full stop or punctuation like a colon to point to a new statement.
Love your explanation of pretty much anything 👏 keep up the great work Sir 👍
At first I thought Alex was too young, but his age wasn't his choice and he has one brilliant mind. Excellent! Thank you!
I almost didn’t watch this video because of the title, then I had to remind myself that it’s good to listen to people you disagree with. The thing is, you tricked me and I actually agree with you on all of your points. Damn you!
He is an atheist, so he is much much less likely to be a moron.
@@lmccahill45 Not really
@@AnnoyingAllie3 I think the point is, that he is an agnostic atheist. So he knows how to doubt, which is a nice indication for thinking clearly.
@@fridolindumpfelhober1841 I love your name..
And that makes a lot of sense, but some atheist doubt the wrong things..
@@AnnoyingAllie3 What things are wrong to doubt?
How can you not care if someone is gay? I care a lot!
Because I want to know if they would like me...
That's the only reason I want to know if a cute dude is gay
this is somehow one of the most adorable things ive seen today
Maximellow except people can like you (or each other) without getting sexual about it... :-B
fynes leigh bro what do you mean?
That’s subjective. So of course you care! Go get em, tiger!
I used to be a homophobic, till I educated myself.
Why did you change your opinion?
@@t-7255 really? It's literally in my comment
@@sgsupreme17 In what did you educated youreself? Because as far as I know, the opinion about homosexuality depends on the ideology and not only in scientic research, which will lead only to the subjective point of view of each individual.
@@t-7255 Correct, I educated myself in everything related to the human mind.
@@t-7255 Background comes from a strong fundamentalist cult, on top of cultural grooming. That should explain why the bias was created. Another point to take into consideration, some homos lack proper education, thus misbehaving. I judge people according to their actions.
I recently held a presentation on another topic, using the same criteria and table as you did in this video. Later I got the slight critique that this moral system is purely teleological, without considering or invalidating Deontology. Any ideas about that?
"Morality doesn't even come into it"
Yeah, but other men do.
I- this made me laugh way too hard
Buttsex hurt when I did it and felt weird but for some reason I wanted it again ;)
Neon Lights and women
AYYYYY
Don't you mean 'cum into it' 😄
I read the title and I was like "wot" then I realized it's cosmic skeptic so there's much more to it, lol.
honeslty same
Vayne Solidor or 34 people don't like clickbait
This guy is great at writing click-baity video titles.
Gia S.
Eh, I honestly don't understand the point of the video. Most people arguing against homosexuality aren't arguing why he is arguing. They aren't saying the attraction is wrong per se, but acting on it is. They're arguing same sex acts are immoral and not the orientation.
wschippr S I mean, most of them don't believe it's an orientation at all, they believe it's a choice
Kudos on the catchy title. You reeled me in. Cogently argued. Well done, sir.
This is great, thanks!
"Sexuality has nothing to do with morality" - fixed it for you.
Well done. But the original is a valid click bait ;)
@Marta Daniela Brandão How so?
Exactly!! LOVE IS LOVE!! FUCK the nazis!!
@Marta Daniela Brandão Fuck off, lovephobe. We don't want your hate here.
@Marta Daniela Brandão Interesting notion. Do you think it is the person's desires, or their resultant actions, that are immoral in the case of such paraphilia? I'm not convinced that thoughts alone can be immoral.
Clickbait used right!!!
@@granitxhaka6148 I know you're having a bad day. But venting it out on strangers in TH-cam won't help. Therapy is a better option. :)
@@granitxhaka6148 Projecting much?
@@granitxhaka6148 What does this mean I need to know
@@granitxhaka6148Unlike you, spewing shit out of that dirty mouth.
@@granitxhaka6148 a much better place to shit would be on your head
Even after the disclaimer I fell for your clickbait, and I agree 100%
ive been subbed and when i saw the title i had a mini heart attack im so happy this isnt what i thought it was
To all the snowflakes out there, (on both sides) what he saying is this: being gay has got nothing to do with being moral or immoral. Same thing goes to straight, bi and lesbian people. It’s nature. (Nor is it a choice) Yours truly, a bisexual atheist man.
:)
Cua 😉
DashingNative think Allah needs to relax and eat a bacon sandwich 😅😁😜
Lesbian was just a word coined to refer to gay women. You made it sound like they’re two different things.
JustNonSense does it matter anyway?
Homophobes: “Wait a minute, I’ve been had!”
tell it to people in japan (who has demographic crisis) .. whether homosexuality brings well being for their existence as a nation ....hehehehehe
Politics is cringe go read some Aristotle.
God damn it your really going to make me defend homophobic people! The problem is that although you don't choose you taste in music you do choose what music you actively listen too in other word you conscious choice is not being homosexual but partaking in homosexual acts/relationships. Furthermore even though homosexuality of an individual does not effect me in anyway it does effect the well being the two or more people that are involved in the homosexual act. An act doesn't have to effect ones own we being to be immoral for example Rape is definitely immoral but someone getting raped in another country thousands of miles away does not effect me so it shouldn't matter that homosexuality does not effect me specifically. I'm only saying this because I believe there is a flaw in you logic not because I care who people are sexually attracted too.
@@morrobarry so what do these homosexual people do ? NOT partake in sexual activities or enter a relationship ? that makes zero sense bro .
@@number5582 the action is conscious and it is partaking in homosexual acts...I'm not suggesting that it's wrong or something I'm just saying that it is a conscious act. Although i see the distinction between a sexual preference that is not a conscious decision and then having a gay marriage is a choice for example
Good idea, and equally good discussion about it. I've copied it for for the talking points.
Thanks for posting! (Wow, I really love this up and coming generation!.)
You got me in the first half second ngl
To others, coming out as lgbt might sound like a sudden choice, but really it's more of a realisation that u either can't hide it anymore or are certain u aren't straight, probably both.
For me, if I hid it another day I'd be dead at 13.
The closet is not owned by the gay person, it's the homophobe's jail. They own the closet, for they make it dangerous to be outside of it. It's a herding device preceding the closet.
To westerners it just because it popular nothings else. Don’t underestimate the ability of a westerners to want to be The Center of attention. When this phase past they I’ll come up with something else
@@nathanolson3135 What you're really saying is that I and my country are quite religious and this gay thing is icky. I don't like it.
Whereas, science is done all over the world, based in only the factual and the endeavour to realise it in an accurate theory. Science is not regional, but what it achieves in all things can only be done in a society where religion is shoved into the ground enough. When people's belief fades and knowledge becomes known and not believed.
Science knows enough that homosexuality is normal. A normal outcome for those who are and that's from birth. Statistical analysis shows this as does genetic studies thus far. The fact that these things have been shown to be set, is not a 'Western' thing, just that in the west, religion and belief have much less of an influence that blinds all of whom are into belief or in a combination of crazed dictatorship, over logic and investigation.
There still are plenty of people here in these postings who are homophobic and from the west.
@@Mcfreddo you’re delusional in thinking The LGBTQ movement in the west has anything to do with science. If anything science is the one thing they run away from as far as possible. Also don’t confuse what comes Naturally to Normality, what “Normal “ is a subjective term , Society decide what normal, history proves that . Any practice have to stand against the test of benefiting the wider society or not in order to be considered part of Normalcy . read your own history this isn’t the first time normalisations of homosexuality in the west has been in full swing , but it always seem with every cultural reset in west it ended up being banned, why is that ? Are you going to say due to ignorance, or lack of knowledge ? or maybe the Bads outweighs the goods. Just look where the conversations were not even that long ago to now , where’s the science in that ? Sure , maybe it comes natural to want same sex love , well so is killing and many other things that we the Society have deem abnormal / detrimental .
They had us in the first half, I'm not gonna lie.
HAHA. Wait, why is nobody laughing? It's a fucking reddit meme!
@@wpprodpyc9266 stfu
@Chris Whitty they can be used for anyone
indeed by almighty lord who raised heavens and spread earth he is brave lad preaching fpr athiesm and talking non sense is all ok till he trash our apostle muhammed indeed i have all glad tidings to you
your blood is spilled
@Chris Whitty dont criticize if you cant take someone criticising you back
Great Video! keep up the good work
Thank you Alex, very well presented and explained
I've seen once two women in a Bus, one was sitting on other's lap, clearly homosexual, and they were just shining with happiness from being together, a true love, it was just pleasant to watch them.
So I would say more; it is Immoral and childish to judge people by their sexual orientation.
Would you be as comfortable if it was two men instead?
@@TriggeredJelly yes, if they weren't doing nothing inappropriate for a public place which they didn't then what's the problem? Tell me what would you find more disturbing two men displaying true love, doing nothing inappropriate or a straight couple hating each other, being together only because of marriage and kids?
@@proximo1033 Ok. I wasn't trying to generalize here - just asking about your gut reaction to the bus situation with the people's sex reversed.
Me personally, I'd feel uneasy if it were two men. Because I wouldn't want to be in a relationship like theirs, and so would feel uncomfortable empathizing with either of them.
@@TriggeredJelly No one is asking for either your permission or your blessing. We're asking you to shut up.
@@MrKit9 It was a civil discussion until you came here. Shut up yourself, honey.
Another note - it is immoral to outlaw marriage equality etc, since it’s a conscious action that affects the wellbeing of lots of people.
ooo tea
🔥🔥🔥
Actions such as denying someone a job would damage their well-being but we would not consider it immoral. Not all actions that affect well being are immoral, but denying people a right that other people have is evil just because a book told you too.
@@DomainAspect Yep, I'm a neutral in this whole situation. Although in my faith it is forbidden to have S-intercouse with the same gender (basically the same way as we see pre-marital S-intercourse), I still support the rights of those who have different beliefs.
Basically, i see gay marriage like the consumption of pork. In Islam we can't eat pork but that doesn't mean I support the outlaw of Pork consumption.
@@DomainAspect Also, your name is hilarious
The best clickbait ever, as a bisexual I love this video, thank you ❤
and you love him too
@@Knytz LOL
Great video! Is there a theoretical name complex chart you drew on paper? Would love to read more about it
Left-handedness is a good analogy.
Nobody really knows why some minority of people naturally prefer to use their left hand for complex motor movements, just as nobody really knows why some minority of people prefer sexual relations with their own gender.
To judge homosexuality as a moral issue is as absurd as judging left-handedness as a moral issue. Neither are moral issues.
Paul Gross And the church has judged both.
Yeah, its weird the number of people from my parent's generation (over 60s) who say that they remember being told that left-handedness was the sign of the devil, or something like that.
But I've never seen any official documentation on that, just anecdotes.
destroying religion one issue at a time.
The word "sinister" comes from latin "left handed" ("sin" being "left"). Additionally, here's a fun one, "sincere" comes from "sin cere" - "without wax," as late roman stone masons would put their name and "sin cere" to pledge they did not fill out mistakes in their sculpture with wax which, on hot days, would melt.
My grandmother is naturally left-handed and in school she was always forced to write with her right hand. They even hit her hand with a wooden stick if she dared to use the left hand!
The reasoning behind this was exactly what you said: using your left hand for things like writing is a sign that the devil or some demon is trying to get hold of you. So those teachers probably really believed that they were saving her from the devil's influence by forcing her to write with her right hand.
I'm left-handed too and when I broke my left arm, I had to write with my right hand for a few weeks and it was horrible. It just felt so unnatural!
I know this is just some more anecdotal evidence, but to me personally, it's real evidence, because I know my own grandmother would never lie about something like this.
She's turning 90 next year, so this happened between 1935 and 1945, in South Africa.
I came expecting an anti gay rant, but was pleasantly surprised. You made some excellent points.
SpaceCat Scribbles Points that make no sense.
@@kingnevermore25 statements
I was like " this has to be clickbait. No way TH-cam would allow this pop up in MY recommendations. "
yea, like 90% of what goes on on youtube. everything is turning rainbow colored and politically correct gay loving...lol
Thank you for this clarification. Good title! Definitely caught my attention.
This is so well put together, very well worded.
Clever title. It gets homophobes to click to validate themselves, and gets normal people to click either to dislike, leave a negative comment, or watch in order to listen to "your anti-gay viewpoint." However, both the groups will immediately notice that you actually aren't a homophobe. Nice job, Alex.
Zoomspilo clever
Zoomspilo I actually knew exactly what he was going to say and didn't even think he could be saying it was immoral. I don't know why; maybe because of how it was worded. Why would someone say "not moral" instead of "immoral"? But yeah, I knew it without thinking about it
Swagalis Goodra Disgusting?
Disgusting, as in revolting, vile, sickening, distasteful, nasty, gross,etc.
Simple google search will give you the definition and synonyms.
jacob smith That not what I meant. I mean what is "disgusting" about gays?
I usually just ask if penguin are immoral. Usually I'm told no or given a weird look. Then I tell them that there have been homosexual penguins. They take in the orphaned and abandoned children most times. Which saves them from having to fend on their own. Quite often the person gets mad or stops talking to me.
This is genius. Can I steal that?
omg cute gay penguins yaaaaassssss
Penguins are obviously cuter than you are if you think they are gay looking. I don't mean your physical looks but inside, you are hideous. Change it before it's too late.
OK I'm not gonna argue with you because I could care less if someone is LGBT, it's their character that matters. But you're using what's known as the nature fallacy. Just because you see it in nature, you cannot use it as a form of evidence for your argument. For example, I can't justify cannibalism just because guinea pigs eat their own offspring lmao.
Well, is it considered a nature fallacy if it contributes to the survival and well-being of the species as a whole? Even if it is indeed a nature fallacy ( I prefer the term, deviant), again, if it means something good for the species, why not?
Brilliant lad, philosopher and great speaker. Succinctly presenting his fundamental thesis in a masterful delivery!!
ive been watching this guys stuff and i went "WOAHHH ALEX" seeing this on my recommendation.. thankfully it wasnt what i thought it was :3
Well, there you have it. You can't judge someone for being LGBT+ because it doesn't fall into the moral sphere.
Please tell me you're joking
Edit: Sorry, I misread it. I thought they said, "You cannot judge someone who is LGBT" when it said "You can't judge someone for being LGBT". I am sorry for this mistake. Maybe I need better glasses
Also, who the fuck liked my original comment?!
@@nkyfong why would they be joking? They're right...
@@nkyfong Unless you're a religous lunatic it has nothing to do with morality.
@@nkyfong I don't see how physical/romantic attraction to a specific sex has anything to do with morality unless you follow bizarre religious beliefs.
@@demon_hawkeye5269 Well you can very easily judge someone just because you want to. Nothing to do with whether it is a moral question or not. I don't like when people pronounce "TH" as "T" unless they are Jamaican. That's not a moral dilemma.
Not saying you should hate people because of who they like though (with some exception)
I'm Skipping this video not because I think your argument is wrong rather that it's so obviously right that I cannot sit through almost 10 minutes of what should be basic common sense.
Hear hear ol bean.
i can't tell if ur saying that based on the title or the actual video xd
How is homosexuality not a choice? Atheists are a joke th-cam.com/video/lf8DsVNcYoA/w-d-xo.html
@@japexican007 are you joking?
@@Floki-D. is that a serious question?
An excellent and much appreciated discourse.
Really eloquent video. Love the clarity with which you develop ideas.
Question: Why do we hold people accountable for manslaughter, then? Clearly there is some notion in society that, if the effect on wellbeing is great enough, the ‘consciousness’ behind the decision is irrelevant, no?
Manslaughter is conscious but not intentional. Kinda like smoking and cancer. You can consciously smoke, but not intend to get cancer. So for reckless driving, you are consciously driving recklessly, but you probably aren't intending to hurt anyone. Manslaughter charges are generally not pressed against people when a death wasn't their fault, or was an unforeseeable consequence. They are charged when their actions were clearly dangerous, but were not intended to cause harm.
It has exhausted me to constantly defend my right to exist. It feels it has consumed all my energy. No gay person I known ever have chosen it. Still straight people that know nothing on the subject are adamant stating "it is a choice". How arrogant. People are being bullied, shunned, imprisoned and executed for being gay. How would that be a choice?
In my view, neither of the absolute statements "it's a choice" or "it's not a choice" are true, but rather it depends on the specific case and the individual(s) involved.
Even if it were a choice, so what? Anyone should be free to choose and live their life as they see fit.
Even if homosexuality was a choice, that isn’t an excuse to condemn it. I chose to watch this video. Is that an excuse to condemn me for watching the video? No. Just because something is chosen doesn’t make it wrong. That logic is just... illogical lol.
@Norbert Kas and it is such a wierd comparison. Sex, love, companionship between consenting adults is their matter and does not affect anyone else. Murder sort of does affect a non consenting adult in a very big way.
@@jacobscrackers98 no it is not a choice.
Some people thought this was pro-gay, some anti-gay.
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking this shit was a meme.
Amazing video and very well explained.
Just came to check and it is exactly as expected
Is that a cardboard TH-cam play button behind you? Haha love it
I know this is a year old comment, but I think it's wood.
@@EiferBrennan i know this is a month old comment, but i think it's birch hardwood.
I think its wood.
@@andysingh2730 *cork
@@andysingh2730 I know this comment is a month old, but I think it's cork
#context
#AnaLisGAY
David Whitfield yep
#howshallowcanadiscussionget
#hscadg
#sd
Great argument. Good stuff
I really liked this video. I think it puts things so simply and logically that in order to disagree with the answer, someone would have to first recognize that their homophobia is fundamentally illogical. It doesn't mean that they can't be homophobic anymore, of course they can, just that it would shift the argument away from one of a 'logical' morality (which, I think logical morality is an oxymoron anyways). The only thing I don't necessarily agree with is the argument of what deems something moral or amoral. I think that while it works perfectly well in this context it's definitely still an oversimplification of morality, but I haven't seen the morality video you referenced, so maybe you cover this more there. I just think that the way we think of choices and unconscious vs conscious seems very solid when it really is anything but. I think the simplification ignores the subconscious, where someone can consciously make a decision, but it would be hard to morally judge them for it because of the environment they have been raised in. Obviously though, people could argue day and night and never find an answer to what drives people to be or act a certain way, so going too in-depth with it just becomes pointless eventually. Anyways just wanted to add that to the conversation of what defines morality. All in all a really great video that clearly and concisely points out the flaws in the argument of queerness being immoral.
I came back to watch some of Alex's old videos and I was wondering how many of the dislikes are from homophobes who watched it assuming he was going to be homophobic and were disappointed, and how many are from people who didn't watch it and disliked it because they thought is was homophobic.
I am an ex christian,yes its true most religious people are homophobes
Ha ha “schrodinger’s homophobia” moment
Explain what is a homophobe?
@@marshalljobe1102 someone who blatantly holds antagonistic feelings towards gay people. Always irrational, never justified
@@makotoyuki345 what if someone believes it is a perversion... that it's sick even to think about a man putting his into another man's ? Is that 'antagonistic'? Are there things you think are perverse? that you don't like?, that you think are wrong or twisted?
e.g. How do you feel about pedophiles? are they twisted and sick minded to you?
This has managed to be one of the few videos made on this topic that has aged well. Well spoken and hopefully more people will be capable of thinking this rationally in the future
I think it is a good video, however it misses an important point. While your sexual desire is outside of conscious control, sexual activity is not. I'm not saying two men having sex is immoral, but it does fall within the moral sphere, as it is a conscious decision affecting well-being. Homosexuality as a sexual orientation is in the amoral sphere; homosexuality as an action is in the moral sphere. You can make a comparison to pedophilia. Attraction to minors is not a conscious decision. Acting on that attraction definitely is and deserves to be punished severely, as I'm sure we all agree. Same with homosexuality, except for the punishment part of course. All I'm saying is that the argument presented in the video is lacking, as the action itself is conscious.
@@timangar9771 it's conscious but doesn't negatively affect the individuals involved - so it isn't immoral in any way?
@@hargeauxthat isn't what the person said. They said it's in the moral sphere as it's a conscious decision and affects wellbeing. Only in this case it's actually good for the wellbeing, which would make it moral I think.
Beautifully explained! QED.
I'd 100% get baited by the title if I hadn't known your channel already
saw the title: was reluctant to watch the video
watched the video: fully agree
@fynes leigh what?
@fynes leigh heterosexuals are immoral.
fynes leigh Not like straights are not perverts. Most cases of child sexual abuse is straight people,straight people sexual abuse animals too a lot. Straight males. Lots of perversions come from straights you bitch
@fynes leigh "anti-natural perversions" yet here they exist in a world your God created. Failure by God as a creator? Or maybe just love is love? I'll let you decide 😊
Vamsi G well said👏👏
People who believe it is immoral DO believe it is a choice. The best response to them is "why would anyone choose that?". If being homosexual leads to lower (institutional) social status, an inability to procreate and causes stress on a daily basis... why would you *choose* this? The answer is you wouldn't. Simply as you didn't *choose* to be born to a poor family or be born with 10 fingers and 10 toes. Sexual orientation is not black/white, but rather a scale/gradient and we all find ourselves along this scale. For all intents and purposes, it was a blind throw of a dart and we live with where it lands...for better or worse.
PerfectPencil exactly.
They do appear to have a major cognitive problem with seeing anyone else's form of preferable choice.
Ari Onassis-Sugen, you're oversimplifying the complexity of existence. None of the things you've listed as even partially equivalent and it is debatable "why" a person would do any of them. If you take the time to analyze why a person would do each, then you can decide if they are doing so of sound mind or if by some kind of mental illness. I suspect though you haven't thought through any of this and are just passing through with a silly thought never to return. With that in mind I just want others to realize that life is not simple. You cannot give simple prescriptions for complex problems.
Well considering you haven't at the very least mastered the usage of a period, I would say the complexities of life have definitely flown over your head.
Now.....you're........just...................trolling...
People desperately need educating on this criteria in this day and age especially because discourse has become overly convoluted.
God i am so glad I found this channel. Your approach to rationality and moral philosophy mirrors my own.
"If it's a choice, try to be gay for a week." Who said that? Oh wait, it was you, brilliant!
Well that's exactly what Bruce Jenner did
@@kunntakentay Now she's straight!
@ADAMK Anderson you aren't supposed to pretend. You're supposed to be. Consciously choose to be gay for a while, not act gay.
@ADAMK Anderson try to fall in love with a guy
@ADAMK Anderson There is a difference between telling everyone you are gay when you are not and consciously choosing to become gay. During the time you pretended to be "gay", did you genuinely develop a crush on another man? Or simply started finding men attractive in a sense that you were attracted to the idea of being in a relationship with man? Most likely not because you are straight so you are only attracted to women.
I clicked on this video ready fight someone but instead it's given me a good argument for why Bucky can't be held accountable for the Winter Soldier stuff
I feel like the only one who ever actually held him accountable was Tony, and that was purely because he couldn't get past his own mental anguish to see the simple truth.
Imagine if people who disagree with you treated you the same way you treat them? Always ready to fight someone? Can't we just stop fighting?
Gert Bruwer, yes; give peace a chance. By the way, that was so smart, I hope you don’t mind that I’m going to use it.
@@rageoftyrael Oh. Who would have thought that seeing a video of somebody, who is standing next to you, murdering your parents while at the same time your friend knew about it and didnt tell you would make somebody flip out. Yes, everyone would behave rationally.
Actually this saying goes back long before the cosmic skeptic was even a gleam in his fathers eye. In fact I was telling people this 30 years ago and I have no idea where I got it.
How do you respond if someone suggest that sure, perhaps it is not moral/immoral to be homosexually oriented, but that it is moral/immoral to act in a homosexual regard, as that is a conscious choice?
At that point, ask why they think that. What's immoral about engaging in homosexual acts? And why? At what point does it become immoral? Why? Then you can counter these arguments as you please.
Also, how does that fall in the moral sphere? Does it affect other people? In what way?
@@patrickgabrielson690
I mean, is it not clear that homosexual acts are actions that affect people? and that's without mentioning all the diseases MSM are particularly liable to spread due to the nature of their behaviour and the acts they engage in.
you had me in the first half
You scared my little gay heart so much-
Vayne Solidor
Could you please calm down?
That Cup Of Dirt he's playing around
you are a funny girl, will you marry me?
Same
Berserker Nobody cares about your opinion.
You will be glad to hear that Australia did vote yes for gay marriage.
Lol nice
They voted yes for sin
kunntakentay what a sadly petty religion..
@@deadby15 what religion?
kunntakentay we voted Yes to Love, God is Love, so your lot say, so we voted for God. We did that in the face of the Christian churches who were determined to sow hatred and dissension. So which side do you think was doing God’s will?
Thank you for the advice I don't feel so bad about who I am now and what my sexuality is now.
Catholic catechism teaches that "Sin" requires grevious matter, sufficient reflection and full consent of the will. Pretty fair explanation of that fourth cell.
ION, my sifu would sometimes answer with "wrong question," indicating than there was an unwarranted assumption in play.
That is a high quality table
I'm gay and when I saw the title I thought: Ugh here it is again... But I clicked because I didn't mind listening to what this guy had to say, and it quickly took a turn I never would've expected. This literally gave me renewed faith. Thank you. Subscribing to you now. Also, I love your delivery and your accent! And you have a face that I think is a cross between Dane DeHaan and Freddie Highmore, so that's really interesting!
Theme Fresh
Renewed faith in my sexuality. I feel more secure.
okay me too and now i can’t unsee the face comparison you’ve given fhhfbdbn
Just going to warn you that if you're religious in any way you're really not going to like the rest of his content lol. Just as a heads up.
Natasha Jayne I doubt any gay person is religious at all ...
Thank you for actually watching the video once you clicked on it.
This is helpful. Morality is knowing the difference between right and wrong; or, you might say, expressing an opinion about what is right and wrong. Ethics is the strategy you employ to decide what is right and wrong.
Just for clarification with regards to your criterium of consciousness: Do you consider neglectful behavior conscious? (This question has nothing to do with homosexuality, it's just a question about your conceptual framework.)
We've just now elected the first openly gay governor here in Colorado which precipitated an interesting discussion with someone I know who is Russian regarding the "morality" of being openly gay. It seems that the Russian mentality of homosexuality is pretty much back in the 1950s if she is at all representative. After many rounds of trying to get her to explain why being gay was wrong, she ended up by arguing that being gay was OK but that being a gay governor was not. She was unable to tell me how a governor's sexuality would adversely effect their performance in office, and after going round and round in circles, she ended the discussion. My point here is that so much anti-gay prejudice is irrational at its core, so attempting to use logic to displace it aims at a target that doesn't really exist. Still, that's no reason not to try.
@Eternal Justice I'm not really clear on the point you're trying to make, if any. Perhaps you could elaborate.
@Eternal Justice Thanks for the response. I'm assuming of course that you mean "cease to exist," as "seize to exist" makes little sense. Thanks also for demonstrating the moral vapidness of religion, which is, indeed, a mental poison worth opposing.
Where's Christopher Hitchens when you need him? He would've Hitchslapped the homophobes so hard, they'd need wipe themselves off the floor.
@Melvin Carter There is no evidence for the existence of hell.
@Melvin Carter Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. There is no valid evidence for the existence of hell, so it is unlikely that Hell exists.
Well that title definitely caught my attention
I'm gay, and I'd still watch your entire video before judging. I don't think that ignoring someone's view is right even if the person's view might discourage me.
In regard to your first statement about consciousness and well-being: if you consciously intend to improve the well-being of another, but inadvertently end up achieving the opposite, is that still an immoral action? Or is it to be judged not according to consequence but rather intent?
If it affects the well-being, then it should be judged.
For a second I thought you got hacked or something by the title xD
If he got hacked, I'd be disappointed in the hacker to see a title like this. I'd rather see something like "I've Officially Accepted Jesus Christ as my Personal Lord and Saviour".
I am a gay volcano
I shall say that you the gay volcano are immoral for “erupting” ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@jayjones5234 you beat me to it!
Well maybe I'll be tracer
@@Raquel-ic9tx. Don't. Please.
@@wonderingaround945 n o
This is a very well thought out video. I like it.
My trick question in such a discussion is "when did you decide to like the opposite sex?".
When i decided two arms were better than one.
@@keithdon3313 and when was that in terms of time
@@nicholaslumbuyekasasa3718 explain
@@nicholaslumbuyekasasa3718 amazing trick question lol.
That question is very easy to answer. Probably when I understood the concept of sexuality and I realized that being gay would subject me to a lot of prejudice.
"Don't judge people by the color of their skin or by the shape of their ears"
Talkin' as if elves were real :D
but they are
They're NOT??????
Danny some people have free lobe ears while others have attached.
As someone with big pointy ears, I can tell you that the discrimination is real.
Danny does he not look like a Vulcan to you!?
Awesome discussion 😊
I fully and wholeheartedly agree with everything - but the taste in music. While it is correct that technically it cannot be chosen, one can, of course, subject oneself consciously to various types of music and thus develop a liking. Much if this is, after all, an acquired taste.
I just spent the last hour binge watching your videos and when I saw the title of this one I was so shocked. Turned out to be one of my favourite videos of yours 😂
Satana With A Fiddle Same though.
Haha same. 😂
Satan With A Fiddle We cannot act in this manner endorsing satan and getting our morals switched will be the end of us all we have to worship the LORD Jesus Christ in every way that we can.
Jesusistheonlyway To salvation People can worship god and be gay at the same time. Why would god punish someone for something they can’t control? That’s just evil and god’s not evil