Top 10 Winter Camping Questions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2024
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My quick review of the Durston X-mid 1 Person Solid tent • Quick Review - Durston...
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#wintercamping #backpacking #hiking #ultralightbackpacking
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Great video.
Regarding VBL socks, for the last 15 years I've been using 2-3mm neoprene booties with a lite liner sock in my xc BC ski boots or winter hiking boots. I ski almost every day, in all conditions, including -40°, and I always have warm feet and dry boots. At the end of the day, I pull the booties off, turn them inside out, and put on dry socks before my camp booties. Magic for me. Note: you have to size up with your ski or hiking boots to make this work; they cannot be tight. Eg: my regular ski boot size is 45, so I went up to a 46. And my neoprene socks are XL (or size 12), though my regular shoes size is 10.5.
Also, regarding wool, in my 40 years in the backcountry (bc skiing, alpine and ice climbing), I refuse to wear wool baselayers if I know I'm going to be sweating. Wool is hydrophilic, not hydrophobic. It absorbs water, it does not wick it; that's just marketing bullshit. Plus it takes forever to dry. Wool is a great midlayer or outer layer, but I refuse to use it as a baselayer.
Just my two cents.
Awesome channel, amigo! 😎
Interesting! Can't beat firsthand experience. What kind of neoprene socks?
@@KaneDoesOutdoors
They are typically used by paddlers or snorkelers. MEC sells a version. I also have some by Fathom and by Atlan. They are glued and sewn, so they are totally waterproof and tough. Unlike plastic bags, they stay in place; plus they add a bit more warmth to your boots. I love winter, so discovering this system was like finding the Holy Grail. Banzai!
The things I dislike the most about backpacking are the bugs and not being able to pack out perishable foods. Both of those problems go away when its super cold but its so hard finding winter gear on a budget and keeping the weight as low as I can. I gave up and just started saving for the expensive stuff jsut so I can have peace of mind when i finally start taking winter trips. I love your channel dude! Found you when you backpacked that insane trip with Justin and Marty. You are an absolute beast my man. I cant wait to deep dive into your channel!
Hopefully there’s some useful videos for you!
The "why don't you just..." questions to be a bad way to ask a question to be less than useful and sometimes almost rude. It's a way of phrasing that often provides no information and is used when one does not have first hand experience. Keep up the work and happy trails!
It try not to take it too personally, more as if we were having a conversation and it's a question. When I'm out with other people we all use different systems, based on our experience and preferences. I offer my point of view but it's in no way dogma. Lots of ways to skin a cat as they say!
Agreed!
I’ve tried explaining not making fires to my buddies, they just can’t get past the mental block. They think it’s a must. I can’t convince them.
Don't get me wrong, I love a fire. Late fall or early spring are ideal. If I'm doing a lower mileage trip and have more time in camp they are a great way to pass time. But when I'm doing really big days it's actually easier just to skip them.
Thanks for sharing your techniques! Ever try Mesh / Fishnet base layers? Big in Scandinavia, but not so much in N America. Its a bit counter-intuitive but warm and very good with moisture management. Brynje of Norway makes some nice ones...
I've heard a lot about them but haven't had the chance to test any out!
I use hilleberg unna or floorless pyramid tarp for my skiing trips here in Finland. Unna definitely feel a lot warmer of these two. Especially when you have been active and your body generates a lot of heat and then you go to the tent, it feels so much warmer than floorless pyramid, it's not even fair comparison. Of course the difference is not THAT big during the the night when you sleep in your bag, but it's still remarkable. Many times i even choose a bit lighter sleeping bag (marmot lithium instead of marmot paiju neg 5) if i go with unna. Condensation has never been a big issue with unna.
Of course there's a many advantages with floorless pyramid and sometimes it's tough decision which shelter to choose.
100% agree. I bought a BD Highlite 2P a few years ago since I thought it would be perfect but way too small for me, even alone on the diagonal. Every shelter type has trade offs.
I live in the same area as Kane and have travelled and camped in these mountains for over 40 years. Amazed at the bad advice offered here, so here is some better advice of my own.
National parks were fun years ago, but have become an administrative nightmare and just plain nasty. You'll feel much freer by going into adjacent non-park areas, although I agree that making a fire for real warmth in winter is quite an enterprise.
Every review of single wall or mesh tents, even in the summer, comments on their severe problem with condensation and the Durston tent is no exception. Even worse, the latter requires a large flat area for pitching and produces 2 large vestibules useless to a minimalist hiker in bear country.
A tent with a solid inner allows moisture to condense, perhaps freeze on the inside of the fly and then flutter on the outside of the inner tent and NOT on your sleeping bag. You will also retain much more heat in the tent, especially if there is any wind to carry it away. That's why winter clothes are not made of mesh. The single pole of a pyramid will sink deeply into the snow, necessitating much excavation, whereas a self-supporting pole structure can float on the top, or can even be repositioned in case of extreme snowfalls. Snow sliding down a pyramid will press against the occupant and if you have a trekking pole tent, how will you ski for even a short distance? If a wind comes up, drifting snow will cover everything inside the tent, potentially a dangerous situation.
Canadian and many other North American mountains are cold at night even in the summer and I have never regretted having a solid inner tent high up. Besides, there is a thrill in having a high alpine camp instead of always having to run down to the forest. (Of course, the Canadian park bureaucrats don't understand this.) The challenge is to find or make a tent that is sufficiently light, as expedition tents are certainly overkill. For instance, I have made a sloping tunnel tent with a solid inner weighing only 3 lbs, which is way more comfortable than all the trekking pole creations I have tried.
"Amazed at the bad advice offered here, so here is some of my own." Do we really need more bad advice?
Plus one point for grammar and minus one for spelling. @@gxsrolling
Cannot beat advice from real experience, thanks
Yup, found it useful. Thanks Kane.
Excellent info and explanations.
I'm heading up swift current creek in mt robson this long weekend and will be trying out the ebivy as a vapur barrier idea as well as the nemo extreme pad, temps will only get to -15c so wont be extreme testing. thanks for your shared real world experience!
Awesome, really appreciate the experience you share.
Glad you found it useful!
Thanks for a lot of good useful information.
Keep up the great videos, just over a year into backpacking. Only gone in winter/sub freezing so far bit loving the solo challenge
Thanks for the feedback!
I stopped making fires too. It's just so much work gathering and processing firewood in the winter - work that I don't want to do after a day of hiking/skiing. Plus you've got to bring fire processing tools which add a lot of weight.
100%
Thanks for these answers and explanations. I also don't make fires for lots of reasons, including that I don't want to breathe smoke or have the smell permeate my gear. I'm learning a lot from you about how to lighten up my winter pack, and since I already have the lighter-weight gear for the other 3 seasons, there's no expense involved. Just need more experience, and the lighter I go, the longer I can go.
Glad it’s useful information - embers are pretty hard on lightweight gear as well.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors Might solve all the ventilation problems at once.
🤣
3:09 I’d say ideal circumstances for a pulk would be a snowed over road, or very mild topography without a lot of trees to move around. It is hard to maneuver around a forest with any sort of density of trees with a pulk. It’s very hard to negotiate fallen trees with a pull as well.
I have used a pulk on a two-night trip following a snow-covered road. I ended up bringing way more stuff than I would otherwise have carried and at the end of the day, I wished I’d just have carried what I actually needed in a backpack, rather than a sled.
100% pulks are tools with a time and place. Long and flat is the ideal. All the polar treks use them for good reason.
I've had great success over the last 2 seasons with warmlite VB socks, I prefer them next to skin, used breadbags for a long time. thanks for bringing your experience in the day and age of backcountry misinformation, especially when it comes to winter. like you said the more time you are out there the more difficult it becomes to keep that vapor out of the bag, I did invest in an over quilt this year but winter never showed up this year where I live but for 2 weeks
I think it's time for me to test a pair... plastic bags keep on failing: sliding down my footwear and ripping.
Thanks for putting this up man! I’ve been looking at the vapour barrier idea and just can’t bring myself to give it a shot just yet…
Just do it, there’s no downside so far as I can tell. The only problem is when you are expecting to have dry boots and the vb shifts or rips.
Appreciate the advice from your perspective and experience instead of just hawking products like some other channels. Agree with you regarding the stability of a pulk for very hilly and mountainous terrain. I winter camp largely in the foothills and try to avoid large changes in elevation when travelling. I do find installing small fins on the bottom of the pulk greatly aids when moving off camber and keeping weight down in the pulk aids when going downhill.
What did you use for the fins?
@@KaneDoesOutdoors If you search for REI DIY: Make Your Own Pulk Sled or Skipulk Making a DIY Pulk Sled Brake and Fins you'll find instructions and materials.
I will wear my (dry) outer shell wear to bed as a vapour barrier as I also get moisture on top of my zpacks quilt (inside a DCF tent) due to temps either side of the membrane not being conducive to transpiration it works well! Also a plus is the treated down zpacks use. Pro tip - I DWR spray the quilt to help condensation run off to the sides.
Great videos btw, I am coming from Australia to hike the GDT (with a couple of locals) this summer so it's nice to see the exact areas!
I like your 'no bullshit' opinions and matter of factness. Keep it up! 😁
Yes I've tried the shell system as a VP also. Rab makes a sil VB liner that weighs ~5oz. Hard to be that weight!
Is that a full thru hike of the GDT? a buddy of mine has everything lined up for his thru this summer. You're gonna be blown away!
@@KaneDoesOutdoors yep full hike! Yeah I can't wait, did the whole PCT in 2022 & loved the scenery, GDT by all accounts is even prettier! 😊👍
nice vid. 🙂
The Provincial Park I camp in the most Fires are NOT permitted at any time, so it makes for an easy decision for me.
Some places it's just not an option. Doesn't really bother me if I can't have a fire. One less thing to think about.
''That's the fun of winter camping, you're always problem solving'' I always say winter camping is an art and that's what so fun about it. Good call on digging for the tent... it will make it a bit cooler if we are lower then the ground though... I wonder how much though what do you think?
It wouldn’t be that much colder if you’re only a foot or so lower… At least I hope.
A few times I’ve taken my skis off and mashed up the snow with my boots before packing it down. That way you break any crust layers and get the air out of the snow. Works really well but exhausting.
I only found your channel a few months ago, but I have to admit i have learned more from your videos in that short time, than in years watching all the other "big" backpacking youtuberes!
You mentioned vapor barriers (as did Justin in his recent video about your trip) and I understand that it protects the insulating layers from condensation and sweat, but it just boggles my mind to have a non breathable layer so close to my skin. It feels counter intuitive, I imagine my feet would be drenched with sweat in a plastic bag and my baselayers would be soaking in a liner. Can you go into the practical details on when and how to use them? (Maybe in a future video...)
I take the plastic bags off my feet in camp and switch to warm dry socks to let my feet fry off. As for the VP liner to sleep in, you're not generating that much moisture in bed. I've been waking up completely dry with no issues while wearing my active clothes to sleep in. Definitely something I'm going to follow up on when I have it dialled in.
Another great & informative video Kane, thanks. I’d add to the “cook in your tent” comment that if one is using their shelter both in winter & summer, then you wouldn’t want the smell of food in a tent that you would be using in the other 3 seasons when the bears are definitely awake & active.
Question / clarification: are you using the MSR e-bivy / vapour barrier inside or outside your sleeping bag? Thx
You’re right I didn’t explain that very well. I’m using the e-bivy inside my bag as a liner. Definitely not the intended use!
@@KaneDoesOutdoors thanks! and, whatever works!
Those of us who don’t live in Canada or the upper Midwest will have to travel a long ways to camp in such cold conditions.
Bunch of people in northern Europe as well!
.. google mt washington NH. it gets to -40 f pretty often there. also adirondocks NY is where to go for east coast extreme winter camping
double wall vs single wall tent doesnt matter untill a certain point.
that point being 2+ people in a tent and below -20c. 3 people even batter, weight splits reach its optimum, esp with tunnel tent. Single person doesnt make much of a difference when it's warm, like -10c, single or double walled tent, and just cant' make a difference when it's cold, When you are three, it's like, -30c gets to -20c inside Nammatj, and that's very significant
I dont find going solo into dead winter a healthy experience overall, regardless. I've seen so much going wrong that was challenging for 2... And in general, one person melts snow, another builds wall, third tramples a platform, then they setup the tent, and supper already ready, is much more enjoyable experience than doing it alone in the dark. My 2000m midget mountains sum up to couple of 40km ridges, and like 20-30 people die every year, including very experienced folks, usually first couple of idiots opening season in mid october to the early -10c frostbite, while being in shorts. Solo i've had to turn back so many times, because i wasnt' sure, and it's better safe than sorry when snow whomps or traverse is polished ice for some reason. No one going to dig up or belay me solo.
Thanks Kane. What do you do about food storage? Ever have any issues with animals - not necessarily bears but even mice and other critters?
I haven't had any issues in the winter - I just sleep with my food next to me. I'm never in the same place for more than one night so it seems ok. Shoulder season and summer is an ursack, storage lockers, or metal hang systems provided if it's a designated site.
Hi!
Regarding the tent, I support your point of view and I also often use a single layer pyramid, but it is not suitable for all conditions.
As far as I can see from your videos, you always spend the night in the forest area in very mild conditions, so this is an extremely comfortable scenario.
However, if we spend the night higher in the mountains, we will encounter a number of issues:
1. No digging with snow will work, because it is either very hard or, on the contrary, soft. And it will be completely blown away by the wind during the night. Even if you dig a hole and put a tent in it, a large amount of snow will be swept there. So an inner layer is essential if you don't want to wake up completely covered in snow.
2. Light polyester type fabrics are not suitable for such conditions. For example, one night was enough for me that the BD pyramid with 30D polyester was simply destroyed by the wind. It stood up, but in many places the fabric was torn, stretched, etc
3. The geometry of the pyramid is not suitable for spending the night in strong winds. Because it has very large sides that do not have any contact points. Because of this, the pyramid makes an unusually loud noise and will not let you sleep even with earplugs. Lower frame tents that have many arcs and many points of fabric contact with them are much better.
So pyramids are a good winter option, but only for very soft and comfortable conditions with low wind (below 20 mph, perfectly below 10 mph).
I’ve spent many nights up high on glaciers with my pyramid tent and can tell you that you are wrong. Site selection, site preparation and staking a pyramid properly is essential. Seems you are not doing it right.
I'm generally above 2000m (6500ft) elevation where I camp - site selection is key.
Kane, I’m in your area and have a 3 person winter camp system the I designed and built for high Rockies summits from the road. You should check it out.@@KaneDoesOutdoors
@@darrenjakal Where can I see this?
@@darrenjakal Hmm, then please explain how to do it correctly.
Example:
1. How to avoid wind drifts of snow inside the tent when there are only two types of it around you - icy, which can be broken into the uterus only with an ice axe, crampons or a strong shovel, and very soft, which blows away even with a breath. What should I do in this situation?
2. How to avoid the extremely loud noise of the pyramid in the wind, when it is tightly stretched with all possible guy lines?
ATI bindings on your skis?
Well done Kane
Dynafit tech AT!
What do you do in case of a wild/unexpected negative temperature swing? Winter camping seems amazing, but in cases where my sleep system isn't fully dialed in yet, or in the event of "it turned unexpectedly clear in the evening and it's going to be 15 degrees colder than I planned", how do you plan for that? Emergency mylar bivy?
I always give myself a pretty big margin. Normal low here is -20C in January so I expect -30C often and ready for -35C. If the forecast is for -30C I’m ready for -40C. -35C is tough, but manageable. I look at the normal temperatures, ranges and plan from there. I don’t normally go if the predictions are for below-30C. It’s not fun. One cold night on a long trip is ok but I’m pretty objective oriented and travelling when it’s that cold in the mountains is tough.
First trips should be overnights anyways and spotwx has great long term forecasts.
I’m wondering what your thoughts are on a solid not mesh double wall tent with a UCO candle lantern? I’ve used a few times in weather around zero C but not much colder. I realize it adds weight and adds gear.
I'm sure it would help with some of the moisture, maybe take the edge off the cold a bit too. But if you're out for several days it would take several candles to run them all night.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors firstly thank you for the reply. I agree 100% with that. I was thinking of using something like a smaller two person solid walled tent and perhaps burning the “candelabra” which has three candles. I don’t think all three would have to be burned at the same time but the option is there. I realize there’s a practical limit to this as there’s a practical limit on how many candles one wants to carry but as I’m getting near 70 I’m finding I really appreciate anything that helps mitigate moisture and perhaps adds a few degrees
What are your thoughts on GoreTex socks for a vapor barrier on your feet? There are a few different brands out there, I know they don't fit the greatest which might be the deciding factor.
I’ve thought about them and my guess is they would work. Most WPB materials really aren’t that breathable and would keep a ton of moisture out of your boots. The question to me is durability - there has to be a reason why the “sock” section of goretex fishing waders are made of neoprene.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors My concern is with the vapor barrier trapping moisture in to the socks and making you feet cold because they are wet. I guess if you are moving you are generating enough heat in your feet? Hopefully.
I don’t know man. My black diamond Eldorado doesn’t require shoveling snow. Oh and it’s so quiet in high wind conditions which is a luxury in the alpine.
Like I said, it’s a personal preference. Pros and cons to all shelter types
hi, do you use the bivvy inside? or outside of your bag?
Inside as a liner.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors cheers, I've been looking for something like this because while not as cold, the UK is damp, and I regularly wake up with a wet bag.
Do you use your new Xmid2P instead of pyramid for winter ? BR
Ya, every single advantage of a standard pyramid plus 2X doors, more available headspace, when you open the doors less snow falls inside.
+ steeper walls, easier to reach the zippers from inside.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors Thanks. The 2P version isn't it overkill ? I have Locus Khufu with a solid full inner and think about moving to a new winter tent in order to stand better the snowfall. I love the dimensions on the inner (230x130cm) that allows to store all the gear in winter.
Sometimes I forget that people live in communist countries that doesn’t allow firearms or fires.
Real men dont need firearms to compensate for being weak . And fires can be made almost anywhere in Canada but more restricted in specific areas for reasons only reasonable persons can understand .
@@bonpecheur4565 ok well since a firearm has saved my life out there from a mountain lion I will continue to be an Alive not real man. Hahahahaha.
I've been to several areas in the US that fires are not permitted - eg ADK High Peaks. Curious if you're allowed fires in Yosemite backcountry, or Rocky Mountain NP, or Yellowstone which are highly regulated due to the volume of visitors. As an example, my estimate is that around 5000 people backpack Rockwall Trail here in Kootenay NP annually (it might be closer to 10K). That's a lot of people, with varying skill levels and awareness who are all camping at 4-5 areas along the trail. Those sites would be destroyed in about 3 weeks if you were allowed to cut trees and make fires. That's one example but we have several destination backpacking trails here that see visitors from around the world. In the high use areas it's just better to reduce impact as much as possible. There's as MASSIVE amount of land that is pure public use without these restrictions.
As for FAs, I'm a legal owner.
@@KaneDoesOutdoors same for me who hunts for grouse a couple of times each year , but not bringing a gun for hiking or camping .
@@bonpecheur4565 I've done a LOT of grouse hunting! My dog passed away two years ago and I preferred going out with him...