Forced Induction (Part 11): How to Properly Build a Bottom End for Forced Induction
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Tech Tuesday: Forced Induction Part 11 How to properly build a bottom end for Forced Induction with Jim Grey from Venom Racing Engines.
0:53 A little about my history...
2:20 I ran 10.5's
2:30 If it's max effort I like it
3:00 Is there a huge difference between budget vs high end build?
3:28 With mild builds (10psi or less)...
3:35 The weakest link is usually...
4:10 More than this HP range... forged internals are going to be needed
4:20 Street/ Strip less than 10 lbs of boost will this work?
5:00 What is the most critical part when wanting more than 10lbs of boost?
5:38 Clearances are critical on high HP setup
6:00 Exclusive club DOTC?
6:25 What are the basics you start with?
6:37 1st thing is the guy's budget
7:00 2nd consideration: What type of fuel are you going to run?
7:23 Pump gas vs race gas where does that lead you?
7:58 Is there a sweet spot with LS platforms?
8:30 another variable is the actual tuner
8:45 No problem running this compression
9:08 Most guys think forced induction is in the 9:1 range
9:28 It's all tied into the tuner
9:45 We do twin turbo setups now that are 13:1
9:59 Have you experimented with coatings? Piston Tops....
10:30 it depends on the cylinder bore finish
10:44 I've seen Teflon coatings on pistons be gone after 5000 miles
10:52 Is there a different grade of component where you see more failure?
11:40 this kind does not have as much silicone content so you have to allow for...
12:09 that is definitely a failure point
12:42 Is there a preferred material for rings?
13:30 starts to flake off...
13:45 Look at what type of steel rings you are running...
14:30 Internet buyers beware
14:45 Let's address clearances vs NA engines
15:28 You need more ring gap for this...
16:20 Shake the catalytic converter and watch the rings all out...
16:40 Spraying 400-500 on 5.3
17:00 What you want if you are building good nitrous motor...
17:26 Bearing clearances...my favorite topic
17:45 The rule of thumb on bearing clearances for performance engines is...
18:15 you have to allow for it...
18:30 LS1 LS2 or LS3 they require...
19:15 The connection Rod: I-bean vs H-beam?
20:00 H beams best bang for the buck
20:30 for this kind of build I will used a billet I-beam
20:45 Z06 with titanium route?
21:15 Is it true that most of the balanced cranks aren't really balanced?
22:10 1000's of lbs of unwanted forced against...
22:39 Is there anything else that is SUPER critical?
23:06 Ringland issue
23:30 for N/A engine...
24:50 If you are the average shop owner or enthusiast watching, What do I need to know in order to buy the right pistons?
For more High-Performance Tuning Knowledge #HPTK
Check out our website: thetuningschool...
Be sure to follow us on
Facebook: / thetuningschool
Instagram: / thetuningschool
It’s not often I watch these types of videos and learn too much, but I learned a lot on this video! He really knows his shit! TY. 🙌
Thank you for watching! Your comment is greatly appreciated!
For a constant load, the bending stress on a piece of solid metal is proportional to 1/thickness^3, so increasing the thickness pays a large dividend. The material and heat treat also affect the strength of a piece. Here are some numbers:
Grade 5 bolt Grade 8 bolt 1018 steel. 4140 steel 4340 steel high speed steel nodular iron
Ultimate strength, psi 125,000 150,000 65,000 125,000 185,000 375,000 60,000
elastic limit, psi 100,000 125,000 35,000 100,000 150,000 ?? 40,000
endurance limit, psi 50,000 62,000 15,000 50,000 75,000 ?? 20,000
The strength of 4140 and 4340 depend on the heat treat. There are other alloys that are stronger than grade 8 bolts, but to the best of my knowledge, nothing is stronger than high speed steel. All steels have about the same Young's modulus of 29,000,000 psi. The Young's modulus for iron is close to the YM for steel. The shear strength of steel is about half of the ultimate strength.
If you really want to know whether a piece is strong enough, you should do a Finite Element Analysis to calculate the stress levels.
You an improve the life of a part that is under a cyclical load (like a connecting rod) if you polish the surface to remove all the nicks and scratches. The improvement is as much as a factor of 9 reduction in the stress at a notch or scratch. For a connecting rod, always polish it in the direction of the length of the rod. I recommend polishing a crankshaft, also. Also make sure there are no sharp fillets in anything as the sharp radius creates a stress riser. Now you know why high performance crankshafts have large fillet radii where the ends of the crankpins and main journals.
If you use grade 8 bolts and threaded holes in 1018 steel, you should reduce the torque of the bolt below its rated torque or you my pull the threads out of the 1018 steel.
Show less
REPLY
as usual information overload thumbs up!!! :)
Super informative. I just learned a lot. Thank you.
cool to see st.louis guys on here.
Best stuff on the 'net
Thanks man appreciate it
I enjoyed the video, thank you - not often that I take notes but I did this time. I am a fact checker and I love numbers and data. One thing that went over my head was "over the crank club". I have been building NA stock motors for over 20 years and I am just now learning about high performance and racing engines. I am guessing "over the crank" is a term suggesting the engine grenades and you drive over the crank? I guess I am getting old. Now I know how my parents felt when I threw some slang term or saying at them... ha ha ha...
yes, thats 100% the meaning of that phrase
Very good questions and excellent BS free replies.
Just found your site* and now bookmarked.
*Amazing just how many good ones just don't seem to be popular and yet so many BS ones do... At least one engine builder who posts his videos is a big talker but does full power runs on dead cold customers street engines, even on what seem to be just built engines - I expect you know who I mean ;-)
My NA engine is going to get a 150 to 200 shot of nos soon. As it stands now the ring gap is .020 ..what should I gap my rings to so I can be safe with a 200 shot? FYI my rings are standard 5/64- cast top and bottom rings
thanks for the channle I like it.
WOW!
I have a fitech power adder max 4 controller Gemini twin perimeter plate nitrous set up its five speed with 4:10s would a higher compression 302 work good or would I be better lower compression spraying more and should I change gearing ?
On the street. I dont agree with the thought of running higher SCR with boost. Lower compression allows more boost and timing.
I think the idea of a higher SCR with boost is to make the engine start better. If the IVC is relatively late, there's just not enough cranking pressure to change the temperature profile and ignite the fuel, so the engine ends up kind of cold blooded.
These guys build VERY fast and stout motors my zl1 makes 900rwhp with there motor
With higher compression, you don't need to run as much boost and timing. Personally, I wouldn't run a lot of compression on a supercharged motor on the street because you will just shock the tires. I would on a turbo car any day.
I know my engine makes more power with lower compression higher boost more timing. Quite a bit more. This isnt theoretical. Forged turbocharged 383 gen 1 with gen 3 ecm h/c/i. I make tad over 1300hp and a little under 1500 ft lbs. Allot has changed since this build.
www.theturboforums.com/threads/a-machinist-a-turbo-and-his-l31-gmc.381269
@@RussManK3 huron speed just came out with a modded version of the old aps twin kit for 4th gen camaros and i really want it but i got a big inch high compression huge cam stroker ls and really dont want to swap the cam and pistons ... street car with a/c and texas heat lol might have to take out a shit load of timing and just keep the compression
can i buid my engine ready for boost and use N/A untill I can boost it later. just to have it ready??
hugo ortega yes
Let me say something about aluminum. There is still an argument about whether or not aluminum has an endurance limit. The endurance limit of a material is the stress level that the material can stand under an oscillating load without ever breaking. Some of the aluminum alloys are better than pure aluminum, but I have never seen any data on endurance limits for aluminum. This is why aluminum connecting rods don't last forever. Don't ask me why aluminum pistons seem to last forever when connecting rods don't.
I bet the heating of the piston has something to do with it. Pistons don't really operate under a lot of mechanical stress. If you have 3,000 PSI of cylinder pressure on a 4.065" bore, you're looking at 38,000 pounds of force that hast to be mechanically transferred, because pressure itself is non-existent in the scheme of things. How much surface area is available over the wrist pin structure if your 2618 pistons have a tensile strength of 63 KSI? Maybe 3 square inches? That's 12,600 PSI. The piston itself may be constantly partially annealing and aging. Plus, that's only at wide open throttle. 10 million cycles at wide-open-throttle is 86 hours at 5500 RPM. That's more than 20 nascar events. That's over three 24h of LeMans. If you run WOT for 30 seconds at a time, you can do it every day for 10 years. Even on top of that, when the heat goes up during a cycle and you let go of the gas, does crankcase oil cool the piston? An aluminum rod sees stress, no-doubt. But the piston lives and interesting life.
www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6617
AZOM does declare that 2618 has an endurance strength of 18,000 PSI.
I agree with the heating aspect. Aluminum weakens with heat and age, steel gets stronger. This is why old iron blocks get better with age and monobloc aluminum brake calipers in race conditions bend. Good race calipers join aluminum side calipers with steel rods.
What about offset rods
not the jim gray i was looking for lol
Could a high compression low boost engine do good on the track/dyno?
you need to define those. what is high compression to you? what is low boost to you?
whats it like running over a crank shaft ? lol
probly similar to a front u-joint breaking doing 80mi\hr
Take your brand new forged connecting rods to a Harley engine builder and have him straighten them before you install them.
Huh?
I run 200 psi of boost on my daily.
Grab America by the Flaps
Your daily driver bicycle with an air can?
It seems you only have knowledge for one application...gm engines
He used GM motors as an example.
LS is by far the most common, so it makes sense. It would be odd if he was using some obscure engine as an example.
Learned nothing this guys answers sucked and he beat around every question
just another poorly staged "interview", with "interviewer" that's knows nothing, asking scripted questions, and answers anyone could quote from prolly 100 different sources.
Yet you can't get enough. Thank you for the view and your support and for watching the video :)