After flying 3+ combat tours as an enlisted aircrew member in 'Nam this is how I look at flying. Board airplane: ALIVE. Disembark airplane after touchdown: ALIVE. WINNER!
Thank you. By the way, in flight meals? Don't complain, mine were C Rations. Got shot out of the sky on a C47 over the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos on 98th combat mission. BEST pilot in the world made a great crash landing and was rescued, so any type of flying for me is pure LUXURY!
Hi Hal, I actually fly this airplane with this airline and into GEG now and again. The A & P explanation is complete conjecture. A nice way to say it's false. I don't know if you have a good memory of your time in GA, but I imagine you had a few hard landings there. Our goal, not that it exists in our operations manual, is to make smooth landings. It's just a personal goal and shared by most pilots-depending on circumstance. For instance, icy runway and short runways can change that goal. So, as humans, not everything is or can be perfect 100% of the time. As such, all pilots tap the runway harder than we intend every now and again. That doesn't mean we require further training in making smooth landings. It means we put our tail between our legs and strive for improvement the next time. Also, our company tracks hard landings (Yes, there is an actual definition.) and follows up with the pilot group-terribly sorry they did not follow up with you. Hope this explanation helps a little. I'm sorry you had to be on board during one of the few times things didn't go as planned during the nanosecond the wheels touched the runway. As pilots, we know this is how we are judged. How did the rest of the flight go?
@@billkeenan1085 The flight was fine. The landing was a surprise as I was filming and got tossed around! Be sure to check out my other take off and landing vids on my channel!!! When I was flying I had my share of learning experiences. But as I got more professional, the work got more and more easy. Thanks for your nice comments!
I work at GEG. This is a typical approach into Runway 21 from the northeast, coming over downtown Spokane, and into the normal winds for the airport. Obviously a morning arrival, based on the shadow and the flight attendant's arrival time announcement. Rewatching the touchdown a few times, my guess is that an ex-Navy officer was PIC, as they have a tendency to land "right now" compared to USAF pilots, who tend more to "float" the plane onto the runway.
We are always judged by the last 3 feet of a flight. The crew could have made great decisions which made the flight safe but people always judge us by the last 3 feet
That wasn't really hard. I was a flight engineer on an Air Force C-130 that broke the entire right wing off on landing. It was a might bit of a firm touch down
I flew for 37 years, 25 of those with a major airline. Was it a smooth landing? No. Was it a SAFE landing? YES. Was it a hard landing? No, not in my opinion. It was very firm, I'll give you that. Also notice the aircraft landed right on the one thousand foot markers, perfect. BTW, that A+P doesn't know what he's talking about, at least when it comes to planes of this size..
I agree with 9deebee. I too flew for 39 years in transport category aircraft (B727, 737, 757, 777 and A320 family). This may have been a firm landing. However, looking at the wings banking back and forth leads me to believe there were gusty winds at the time. Even though the crew probably had an airspeed additive to counter the gusts, I believe the wind died down right at the start of the flare. Firm landing. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. One other item, this appears to be an E175 regional jet. There may have been a relatively low time pilot making this landing. How else does he or she gain experience? And that A&P sounds like he has never worked on transport category aircraft. None of what he says is close to being true. These aircraft are designed to cruise where the temps are -60F or colder.
Ive flown to this airport many times, mostly on ATR-72's, the runway is a dead north/south runway that sits on an elevated knoll which makes it very exposed to crosswinds. The last time i flew into there, the crosswinds were so strong that just before touchdown the planes left wing was just inches off the runway until the pilot corrected the plane and literally slammed the plane on the runway! Yes it was very scary but in the end i got to shake the pilots hands and commend them for their awesome skills.
Your Shadow did not get larger (technically it became smaller - the further the object is from the light source the smaller the shadow). It appears bigger to you because you were closer to it - as any object seems bigger the closer you get to it. I am an old pilot (42 years as a pilot) and not every landing is what you want (every one is different - different weather - temp, wind, traffic, etc, but a safe landing is what you want and shoot for on every landing.
True, but the light source is 93 million miles away. By the time the light rays reach Earth they're as good as parallel. Whether you're at 30,000 feet or 30 feet, your shadow won't be a measurably different size.
@johnopalko5223 no, as you get closer to where the shadow is reflecting off of, your shadow WILL get larger. One of my great memories is landing at dawn (757 at BOS and 777 at LHR on Rwy 27L). As you get closer to the ground you will see your shadow in front of you, and it will get larger until you touch down. And your shadow will be visible ahead of you. You can't miss it!
At least no risk of an overrun. No flare at all, just a power on landing. Boom. Reverse thrust. You here. Prolly a ex-navy guy that forgot he was flying a bus.
The "smooth landings drag the wheels" sounds like pure baloney to me. It would seem to me that the wheels begin rotating at the speed of the aircraft within milliseconds of touching the ground in either case. There is a small time frame at initial contact where the rotation hasn't reached the ground speed and that does produce some skid... but one would think that the tire wear during that skid period would be proportional to the weight on them - i.e. the greater the weight the higher the friction. I would think that would mean that settling down more slowly would produce less friction during that time frame as less weight would be on them during their spin up.
That was my original feeling too. All of my personal experiences are in Cessna single engine craft, as a pilot in command. So I found the explanation a surprise! Thank you for watching and your comments.
@@rhymereason3449 (former airliner landing gear dynamics engineer) Nothing the mechanic said made any sense to me. Not the freezing; not the tire rotation stuff. In general, it's braking loads during a maximum energy RTO which design the tire, along with takeoff at MTOW under adverse conditions. Tire spin-up loads have never even been mentioned during any interactions I've had with a tire vendor, or with NASA when discussing Shuttle tire problems. Touchdown (vertical) loads aren't a big deal either, since most of an airliner's weight continues to be carried by the wing until after spoiler deployment.
@@marcmcreynolds2827Exactly! In aircraft with steel brakes that I have flown (727, 737, 757) we used to delay braking until down to 80 knots. That saved tires and even more, the brakes. In the A320 family I flew with carbon brake disc's, they encouraged us to start light braking immediately. This heated up the brakes which in turn lead to LONGER brake life. Counterintuitive, but that is what the engineers and designers told us and the company. So, that became company policy at my airline.
As a former pilot (like me), you know that not all landings are "butter." If I was a Delta manager, I doubt that one bad landing would cause me to drastically alter pilot training.
Ignore the comments, it was a hard landing (in the view of a passenger), yes, and it may have been uncomfortable. And I’m sure you understand that it was safe regardless.
@@daveblevins3322 Funny how different people view the same things and come to diverse conclusions. Zero flying skills? My instructors would find that comment laughable!
@@jeffreysantos8728 It means nothing in and of itself. However, the landing WAS hard enough to make passengers gasp, hence a reason for the video! Flying is flying, regardless of size of the plane. One is only as good as one's last landing!
@@halscharn3325You have no idea what you are talking about. A true hard landing would require a crew logbook entry and a very specific maintenance inspection to clear the write up. This appeared to be a normal, albeit firm landing. But definitely NOT a hard landing. The vertical speed at touchdown was probably less than 100fpm. A hard landing is defined as a vertical speed much greater than seen. As defined by the manufacturer.
@@jeremyimes6734 That's one of the best "excuses" for sloppy piloting I have heard!! Sorry, it won't "fly!" The startled gasps of passengers gives it away. I suggest you view my other landing videos and compare!
You can tell by the shadow that was a " no flare " landing. The auto land system didn't take over and flare out the decent. Pilot must have forgot to set it ??
Yeah commercial airline pilots are trained not to land hard. It’s not NAM and it’s not some moth balled aircraft carrier that you tools play simulator on… the landing pilot will get some training….
My personal opinion is they are trying to meet "hiring diversity" and in the process are compromising quality. Boeing is in lots of trouble over quality control. This is what happens when people try to make everybody the same, instead of recognizing that some people actually ARE better at certain things than others! Thanks for writing!
Or perhaps it’s that the airlines are they hiring whoever they can because passenger demand is high and there was a bottleneck in experienced pilots coming through the pipeline. And Boeing isn’t in trouble because of diversity, it’s in trouble because it lost focus of its core mission and focused on profits and dividends. You guys really should read more than Fox and Epoch Times.
@@halscharn3325 What do you know about Boeing...have you worked there or are you just pushing an agenda. As for flying skills you should know that piloting a large aircraft is very different than piloting small GA aircraft.
![🇫🇷 Paris CDG - Montréal YUL 🇨🇦 Air France Boeing 787 [FULL FLIGHT REPORT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tgu8gC0FBkI/mqdefault.jpg)
I grew up in Spokane (the Northwest part of town). Seeing 5 Mile, Shadle Park, and other landmarks I haven't seen in a while was fun.
A distinct transition from airborne to planted. No bounce. That was a good landing.
After flying 3+ combat tours as an enlisted aircrew member in 'Nam this is how I look at flying. Board airplane: ALIVE. Disembark airplane after touchdown: ALIVE. WINNER!
Thank you. By the way, in flight meals? Don't complain, mine were C Rations. Got shot out of the sky on a C47 over the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos on 98th combat mission. BEST pilot in the world made a great crash landing and was rescued, so any type of flying for me is pure LUXURY!
Hi Hal,
I actually fly this airplane with this airline and into GEG now and again. The A & P explanation is complete conjecture. A nice way to say it's false. I don't know if you have a good memory of your time in GA, but I imagine you had a few hard landings there. Our goal, not that it exists in our operations manual, is to make smooth landings. It's just a personal goal and shared by most pilots-depending on circumstance. For instance, icy runway and short runways can change that goal. So, as humans, not everything is or can be perfect 100% of the time. As such, all pilots tap the runway harder than we intend every now and again. That doesn't mean we require further training in making smooth landings. It means we put our tail between our legs and strive for improvement the next time. Also, our company tracks hard landings (Yes, there is an actual definition.) and follows up with the pilot group-terribly sorry they did not follow up with you. Hope this explanation helps a little. I'm sorry you had to be on board during one of the few times things didn't go as planned during the nanosecond the wheels touched the runway. As pilots, we know this is how we are judged. How did the rest of the flight go?
You are too kind.
I am amazed at what pilots do. Thank you for all the safe flights!
@@billkeenan1085 The flight was fine. The landing was a surprise as I was filming and got tossed around! Be sure to check out my other take off and landing vids on my channel!!! When I was flying I had my share of learning experiences. But as I got more professional, the work got more and more easy. Thanks for your nice comments!
I work at GEG. This is a typical approach into Runway 21 from the northeast, coming over downtown Spokane, and into the normal winds for the airport. Obviously a morning arrival, based on the shadow and the flight attendant's arrival time announcement. Rewatching the touchdown a few times, my guess is that an ex-Navy officer was PIC, as they have a tendency to land "right now" compared to USAF pilots, who tend more to "float" the plane onto the runway.
@@RustySax1949 Thank you for posting! You are likely correct! Happy landings to you!
Force of habit. Totally agree!
O U C H ......😮😮😮😮
Ex-Navy pilot catching the #3 wire.
We are always judged by the last 3 feet of a flight. The crew could have made great decisions which made the flight safe but people always judge us by the last 3 feet
It was a hard landing for sure, but as it has been said many times, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
It's always good just to touch down.
right - aggressive but solid. It's the bouncy cross wind landings that give me the heebeegeebees...
A good landing is when everyone walks away, a great landing is when the plane can be used again.
Spokane a nice place to be from!
That wasn't really hard. I was a flight engineer on an Air Force C-130 that broke the entire right wing off on landing. It was a might bit of a firm touch down
I flew for 37 years, 25 of those with a major airline. Was it a smooth landing? No. Was it a SAFE landing? YES. Was it a hard landing? No, not in my opinion. It was very firm, I'll give you that. Also notice the aircraft landed right on the one thousand foot markers, perfect. BTW, that A+P doesn't know what he's talking about, at least when it comes to planes of this size..
Exactly. Read this if anyone is confused about this video. 👍
@@9deebee I would suggest viewing my other video .... "Landing at J F K New York" and compare. It was so smooth it was almost imperceptible.
I agree with 9deebee. I too flew for 39 years in transport category aircraft (B727, 737, 757, 777 and A320 family). This may have been a firm landing. However, looking at the wings banking back and forth leads me to believe there were gusty winds at the time. Even though the crew probably had an airspeed additive to counter the gusts, I believe the wind died down right at the start of the flare. Firm landing. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
One other item, this appears to be an E175 regional jet. There may have been a relatively low time pilot making this landing. How else does he or she gain experience?
And that A&P sounds like he has never worked on transport category aircraft. None of what he says is close to being true. These aircraft are designed to cruise where the temps are -60F or colder.
A firm landing, but perfectly acceptable. Nice video!
Ouch. That hurt to watch that. 😮😮 Use to live in Spokane. 👍.
Winters 👎 . Overall 95 out of 100.
Ive flown to this airport many times, mostly on ATR-72's, the runway is a dead north/south runway that sits on an elevated knoll which makes it very exposed to crosswinds.
The last time i flew into there, the crosswinds were so strong that just before touchdown the planes left wing was just inches off the runway until the pilot corrected the plane and literally slammed the plane on the runway! Yes it was very scary but in the end i got to shake the pilots hands and commend them for their awesome skills.
Thank You Hal, I saw you came in on runway 21.
Your Shadow did not get larger (technically it became smaller - the further the object is from the light source the smaller the shadow). It appears bigger to you because you were closer to it - as any object seems bigger the closer you get to it. I am an old pilot (42 years as a pilot) and not every landing is what you want (every one is different - different weather - temp, wind, traffic, etc, but a safe landing is what you want and shoot for on every landing.
True, but the light source is 93 million miles away. By the time the light rays reach Earth they're as good as parallel. Whether you're at 30,000 feet or 30 feet, your shadow won't be a measurably different size.
@johnopalko5223 no, as you get closer to where the shadow is reflecting off of, your shadow WILL get larger. One of my great memories is landing at dawn (757 at BOS and 777 at LHR on Rwy 27L). As you get closer to the ground you will see your shadow in front of you, and it will get larger until you touch down. And your shadow will be visible ahead of you. You can't miss it!
It's simple. Navy pilot. Every F-4C transferred from the Navy to USAF to become the RF-4C had cracked bezels on the instruments.
Probably was a Aircraft Carrier!
Looked good to me. Try landing on CVN 78, Now that’s a hard landing.
Did you walk away from it? If you did, then don't be sniveling.
Never seen the shadow effect ,pretty cool reminded me of typical RC plane landing lol
At least no risk of an overrun. No flare at all, just a power on landing. Boom. Reverse thrust. You here. Prolly a ex-navy guy that forgot he was flying a bus.
The "smooth landings drag the wheels" sounds like pure baloney to me. It would seem to me that the wheels begin rotating at the speed of the aircraft within milliseconds of touching the ground in either case. There is a small time frame at initial contact where the rotation hasn't reached the ground speed and that does produce some skid... but one would think that the tire wear during that skid period would be proportional to the weight on them - i.e. the greater the weight the higher the friction. I would think that would mean that settling down more slowly would produce less friction during that time frame as less weight would be on them during their spin up.
That was my original feeling too. All of my personal experiences are in Cessna single engine craft, as a pilot in command. So I found the explanation a surprise! Thank you for watching and your comments.
@@halscharn3325 It would be interesting to see some actual experimental data because if true it's certainly not very intuitive to my mind.
Landing air craft is nothing than a control cras, of walk away from it then it's a good landing
@@rhymereason3449 (former airliner landing gear dynamics engineer) Nothing the mechanic said made any sense to me. Not the freezing; not the tire rotation stuff. In general, it's braking loads during a maximum energy RTO which design the tire, along with takeoff at MTOW under adverse conditions. Tire spin-up loads have never even been mentioned during any interactions I've had with a tire vendor, or with NASA when discussing Shuttle tire problems. Touchdown (vertical) loads aren't a big deal either, since most of an airliner's weight continues to be carried by the wing until after spoiler deployment.
@@marcmcreynolds2827Exactly! In aircraft with steel brakes that I have flown (727, 737, 757) we used to delay braking until down to 80 knots. That saved tires and even more, the brakes.
In the A320 family I flew with carbon brake disc's, they encouraged us to start light braking immediately. This heated up the brakes which in turn lead to LONGER brake life. Counterintuitive, but that is what the engineers and designers told us and the company. So, that became company policy at my airline.
A dollar to a donut - this guy was a Naval Aviator.
yeah, that was a firm landing, we see alot of those at GEG.
As a former pilot (like me), you know that not all landings are "butter." If I was a Delta manager, I doubt that one bad landing would cause me to drastically alter pilot training.
It wasn't a "bad" landing. On centerline, in the touchdown zone, aircraft undamaged. Checks all the boxes!
Ignore the comments, it was a hard landing (in the view of a passenger), yes, and it may have been uncomfortable. And I’m sure you understand that it was safe regardless.
Shiny side up - what are you complaining about.
yes it was a bit hard but overall not real bad.
another safe landing
Ouch! What type of plane was it?
Looks like a 737, can't be sure of the variant but I'd guess a -900.
@@najaB76 I do not remember the variant, but likely the 737.
From the shadow, it was an Embraer ERJ.
@@STOPsignforRT The nose looks more Boeing-like to me. But it's not a hill I would die on.
E175 flown on the UA side, mostly likely a SW PLANE.
Firm? sure. Hard? I don't think so!
nothing special. The 737 can and has to do this in crosswind conditions to be planted firmly on the ground.
Firm landing yes, hard I don't think so!
By any chance are you related to Bill Stromberg, the film producer?
LOL...."hard landing"....LOL.
Looked pretty good to me 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸 It's always somebody with zero flying skills commenting about pilot skills. Just sayin' 🦜🦜
@@daveblevins3322 Funny how different people view the same things and come to diverse conclusions. Zero flying skills? My instructors would find that comment laughable!
Main thing...they made it. Safely! ❤
Look carefully. The plane is flying backwards.
Thanks, I'm sure the critique of a FORMER g/a pilot on landing a part 121 airplane by a crew with 1000's of hours more than you, means alot.
@@jeffreysantos8728 It means nothing in and of itself. However, the landing WAS hard enough to make passengers gasp, hence a reason for the video! Flying is flying, regardless of size of the plane. One is only as good as one's last landing!
@@jeffreysantos8728 I suggest you have a look at our video "Landing at J F K" and see what a smooth landing looks like!
I’ve had harder and worse landings than that.
That is unfortunate. Repeated enough times, it is not good for the aircraft! Happy landings!
@@halscharn3325You have no idea what you are talking about. A true hard landing would require a crew logbook entry and a very specific maintenance inspection to clear the write up. This appeared to be a normal, albeit firm landing. But definitely NOT a hard landing. The vertical speed at touchdown was probably less than 100fpm. A hard landing is defined as a vertical speed much greater than seen. As defined by the manufacturer.
Wasn’t the pilots fault. Not the copilots fault. It was the asphalt.
Hahahaha! Landing seemed fine
Nothing unusual about that landing.
Forgot to flare.
From the windsock visible at 7:04 it looks they're landing into the wind. Could just be that it dropped a bit just before touchdown.
that wasn't hard!
@@LobodArcis I would recommend viewing my other video "Landing at J F K New York" and make a comparison!
@@halscharn3325 been in the air since I was 5, gliders at 14. Hard landing is when the tires or landing gear needs attention.
Perfect landing!
Pyuck! That was one of my better landings...
Weak arms and a weak grip on your part does not mean a hard landing.
@@jeremyimes6734 That's one of the best "excuses" for sloppy piloting I have heard!! Sorry, it won't "fly!" The startled gasps of passengers gives it away. I suggest you view my other landing videos and compare!
You can tell by the shadow that was a " no flare " landing. The auto land system didn't take over and flare out the decent. Pilot must have forgot to set it ??
Wrong
Autoland system didn’t take over? What….?
Good video but spoiled a bit by all that giant red lettering!
Yeah commercial airline pilots are trained not to land hard. It’s not NAM and it’s not some moth balled aircraft carrier that you tools play simulator on… the landing pilot will get some training….
Are the airlines hiring the best pilots or compromising quality to meet hiring diversity
My personal opinion is they are trying to meet "hiring diversity" and in the process are compromising quality. Boeing is in lots of trouble over quality control. This is what happens when people try to make everybody the same, instead of recognizing that some people actually ARE better at certain things than others! Thanks for writing!
Or perhaps it’s that the airlines are they hiring whoever they can because passenger demand is high and there was a bottleneck in experienced pilots coming through the pipeline. And Boeing isn’t in trouble because of diversity, it’s in trouble because it lost focus of its core mission and focused on profits and dividends. You guys really should read more than Fox and Epoch Times.
@@halscharn3325 Maybe it would be a better idea to gather some data and then form an opinion. Just my opinion.
@@tedthomas3727 I have wondered the same thing! Sometimes landings are smooth, many times not. And the weather was ok!
@@halscharn3325 What do you know about Boeing...have you worked there or are you just pushing an agenda. As for flying skills you should know that piloting a large aircraft is very different than piloting small GA aircraft.
Navy pilot...
Please reinstalled the fillings back in your teeth.
DEI landing. Was never very good at it but we need the check mark ✔️ in the box.
Stop the BS. You have no idea who was flying. This happened to me even with over 25,000 hours of flying.
Scary video.