I will say that Quad Slowdown has become more prevalent solely due to gen regression perk nerfs . Before you’d see 1 or maybe 2 slowdown perks and the rest were maybe tracking or chase perks but since this update dropped I’ve seen gens pop extremely fast even with killers running gen regression. Unless your a high mobility killer or a killer wish semi decent map pressure, you kinda rely on a ton of gen regression to give you a bit more leniency when it comes to time management, and I think that argument comes into play more than ever now solely based on how many killers I see running quad slowdown even on top tier killers such as blight or nurse. I personally feel BHVR needs to stop balancing solely on pick rates and maybe look deeper into why a certain perk or group of perks is being picked so much and if they can find the root of the problem, tweak it to where it’s not a problem for either side. Now I know it’s a bit of a stretch given how braindead the BHVR balance team can be but still, it is common sense yet they drop the ball each time it comes to balancing. For every step forward, they take 2 steps back in one way or another. 🤦♂️
I feel as if just having new game modes or different ways to reach an end goal would help in some ways to keep things fresh. But there's always gonna be some meta somewhere in each of these, and having different ways to reach an end as a survivor (not just gens) would affect slow down perks and would also need tweaking. But would still be cool to see, but a lot of work to put into.
I miss chaos shuffle. I love running meme or thematic (locker, pallet, flashlight, etc) builds and mostly avoid meta perks. You'll never get away from meta while people can select their perks themselves. Loved chaos shuffle cause DBD is better when it's not so serious. Just hard to run fun builds when it leaves you exposed to all the really unfun aspects of the game.
It really was the best. I haven't had that much fun in DBD for years. Definitely since before SBMM. I personally run just about only memes as survivor (more than half involve No Mither for some reason). As killer I try to do themed builds but where I used to be able to do that all day, now every game is stressfull enough that I quit after a few.
Every time I bring fun builds on either side, I end up not having fun whether it's gens flying or getting tunneled out because I'm the only survivor without an exhaustion perk, ds, and off the record.
I still run the fun builds, but instead of playing all day like I used to Ill get a few games then stop. I dont mind losing, but as stated in the video I want to play the game. When that doesn't happen because the gens all get done in under 5 minutes I just don't feel like playing. The balance was worse, but at least there was variety in the old days.
Honestly if they could slow it down I’d be fine with it. Cause I don’t really care what the killer meta is I’ll bring what will give me a decent balance of fun and strong (ie slowdown and chase) but if could idk, not lose 3 gens in the time it takes to complete 1 and 1/3 normally without 1-2 slowdown perks that’d be really nice and would ease off the pressure of needing to bring slowdown, and nerf it on the killer end as well to make it fair. Nerfing slowdown on both ends will not fix the inherent gen regression/progression meta, but I think it would make it more bearable, at least on the killer end.
Honestly agree with this discussion a lot more than I thought I would. Gen rushing and quad slowdown are just, bad, in my opinion. It's boring, makes people feel helpless, and just doesn't feel fun. Ffs, I play Sadako, a C-D tier Killer. One chase can lead to 2, 3, SOMETIMES 4 gens being popped from Survivors going nuts with their gen perks while I stick with 1 - 2 slowdown perks I like on a build. There really is a point about the loss not mattering. I don't care all that much about losing anymore, cuz if I'm gonna lose, mother of mercy, I'm gonna lose, but there's a massive difference between losing from getting outskilled, and feeling completely helpless because a loop lasted 45 seconds and 3 gens somehow got done in that time
With the new chapter it is possible for 2 survivors to pop a Gen in 18 seconds and 45 seconds in solo. It is simply not enough time for low mobility killers to traverse most maps. This leads to frustration, stress, less fun, less good chases and 4 minute matches
Hot Take: The game’s main issue with gens are the fact that survivors are most efficient when fully spread apart. Ideally the meta should focus on two survivors working on a single gen to limit the punishment for killers who take a little too long on a gen. Along with that, I think most Gen regression perks will inherently become too strong because in order to be effective against a full squad they should be able to stall 4 gens at once, therefore each regression perk needs to become SUPER strong. If Gen regression perks were weaker and survivors stick together the game would be better for less powerful killers because the potential loss is decreased whilst not doing much to benefit the already strong killers.
There are currently in this current build of dead by daylight there are three builds that can complete a generator and under 30 seconds. Not a single build. Three. Why is it that Survivor can do this theoretically it should be impossible. As if we go on the description of the perks, almost every single perk is an additive buff to repair rates or skill checks. However, the actual code shows that this is not true. In fact, there is evidence to show that all generator perks stack, multiplicatively, or even exponentially Take hyper focus for example. Hyper focus applies a 1.3 repair multiplier charge for every token. Now if it was additive it would apply a maximum of 180% to each skill check which on gens would be 16 charges in a single check. However it may be that it's stacking exponentially. So instead of it just applying 30% additively it takes the total and adds 30% of that to the value so 1 goes to 1.3 which goes to 1.69 then 2.197 then 2.856 then 3.7 then 4.82 so it changes from 180% extra to 482% extra Gin repair perks follow a similar logic. We’re multiplicative of each other stack in a wonky way that exponentially boost the repair time. Oddly enough killers can abuse this themselves however it is much more difficult for them to do so. They would either need to use pentimento and thana or pentimento and dying light. In fact, a similar stacking was the entire reason why THANA was Nerf into the ground. As killers using the at the time new pentimento perk and Thana at the same time we’re causing more slow down than what would be the sum of the two perks at once. Instead of just fixing that they decided to completely gut the perk. Survivors had recently lost their previous builds that allow them to go below 20 seconds by stacking multiple progression perks alongside the exploit with potential energy to basically allow their tool kits to be infinite. And we probably had about a week before Bartig inspiration was added in and oh my God , that perk stacks very crazy with hyperfocus and the hidden extra one percent in stakeout. This means that any single cell check can get 500% boost or 1/18 of the generator done in a single skill check. Now spread this out amongst three or four survivors and it’s easy to see why a generator can just disappear in a single chase. If we fixed gin, progression and regression to how it is listed in the actual descriptions, then it would be literally impossible to finish a general in less than 50 seconds.
@@springtrapnibba yeah I try not to say something I cannot do myself. I've tried but I couldn't get that fast yet but I'm not surprised. How on earth is a killer supposed to handle that?
@@springtrapnibba oh no I’m aware of it spiders has become a generator equivalent of healing circle and old bop and hyper focus and bardic stack extremely wonky as both calculate the boost off each other’s percentages. But there are versions where you don’t need a bnp that still get done sub 30 seconds solo
I believe that maybe 10 percent of killers want to run 4 slowdowns and tunnel every game they do it because thats the only way with certain killers to win. Like my Trapper, who I understand is bad, but if I run corrupt and set up, I will be down 2 gens with a 3rd at 90 percent. If I don't run that and decide to hook than setup it takes a good minute to find,chase, and hook the 1st survivor, and you still lose 2 gens without being set up. Obviously, maps are a factor, but at the core, 4 survivors are op, and once it's down to 3, if you have 2 gens left that aren't ready to pop, killers basically win. The game is what it is, and it's too bad. Very well said and explained video
Personally my two meta perks I bring every single time is grim embrace and oppression. Oppression allows for gens that have hit the regression event limit to still regress as other gens effected by it don't count as regression events. So it bypasses the 8 limit it spreads a nIce amount of pressure and saves me time not having to kick gens. And sometimes it will give me info if a survivor misses the hard skill check if there on a gen that it procks. These two perks I find sufficient enough as slowdown if you have good game and macro knowledge and a headset (sorry kaiser) and I still have two perks slots available to fill with whatever I like maybe a nowhere to hide or no way out
Back in my day old Ruin on its own was enough gen slowdown Then once it got nerfed the meta because corrupt + pop You could run BBQ, Enduring, Spirit fury, brutal, STBFL, thrilling tremors, discordance, infectious, nurses etc. Ever since Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer meta slowdown has felt so boring for both sides Things like Pain res, call of brine, eruption, overcharge, grim embrace, deadlock They just stack and stack and stack Makes me think old ruin wouldn’t be good in today’s meta There’s no solution to the problem either because as they nerf slowdown that makes people have to stack more since using less of them is not effective at all even if stacking them is weaker than stacking them prior
I think theres a bit of a discussion to be had about what we expect from games in DBD at all. No one enjoys losing when they feel like what they do doesn't matter, and the killer blocking and regressing your progress so often can get extremely boring for the survivor. But it's also really boring dealing with that chase you struggled in just to watch gens fly. And something I think doesn't help is the "skill issue" attitude a lot of players have about this. I've a LOT of hours on dbd, both as killer and survivor, though I'm better at killer, and one core thing I notice about the game that people don't talk about is just how much mental energy it takes to do well in a game. When I play killer, I am literally one person keeping my watchful eye over four other psople and running all over the map to pressure them while being worried about a billion microfactors that could disadvantage me. In every chase, I'm using more than 1% of my brain CONSTANTLY with every single direction turn I make, and as a killer you're pretty much always chasing for modt of the game. As a survivor, I feel it's a lot lighter a load, even if the cost of that is that losing is more annoying since it's also on the teammates. I can sit on a gen for a full minute and just think about nothing other than what's going on in the HUD and whether or not the terror radius is showing (unless it's a stealth killer but whatever) along with my escape route. That downtime is something that gets overlooked a lot I think, but what really bugs me is how that mental strain is treated. I AM playing a game, aren't I? Isn't the goal supposed to be fun? Why should I have to hyperfocus on minute details or suffer from less than ideal teamwork to enjoy a match? Why do I, as a killer in this case, always need to give my all every single time to have an entertaining game? I'm not saying we should do absolutely nothing but meme in the horror asymm game (I am the FIRST one to show you that my snoot is NOT an exit gate ticket), but dbd's hyper competitive meta does get draining. And I know there's the whole "just stop playing" thing, but dbd genuinely does make me happy and I play it all the time, that feeling of so much extra effort being exerted is typically gone before the next queue for the most part. But I still think the community could benefit from loosening up on the gens/hooks attitude just a bit. TLDR; I think unfun strategies like this one are kinda symptomatic of a larger problem with how uber-competitive dbd's community can be. We don't need every game to be this super long tug of war where everyone is constantly teying their hardest and exhausting their brain cells to get the win, maybe the devs or just sheer communal yapping can encourage a dbd that's less stressful and thus demanding of these builds and more relaxed. Games do need their casuals after all.
A combination of several things. majority of killer perks suck, the popularity of Distortion makes aura perks not worth running, gen speeds fly most games without slow down and it makes games not as stressful.
"what the killer can do lies somewhere between jack and shit" " you choices end up being somewhere between fuck and all" god i dont know how you come up with these but they are my favorite
The only time I bring slowdown is when I learn the killer, because my global MMR is so high that when I'm experimenting with new killers I'm getting destroyed. Then I progressively remove every Slowdown. My Clown, my Slinger and my Trickster for example don't have any slowdown, regardless of that I somohow 4k at 5 gens with my Clown yesterday without slugging nor camping nor tunneling, just constant pressure leading them to not have any time to work on gen. And even when I do take slowdown, I prefer blocking then regression because Survivors can do other things during this time and it's less boring. (Grim Embrace being my favourite one even before it's buff)
@@gibbybtw280 That's not true unless they disconnect, but this doesn't happen that often (once every 3 games and generally when they are dead on hook so it doesn't change anything...)
Plus it also depends on how strong the killer is, you can play an A Tier killer like Hillbilly or Wesker and run 1 slowdown cuz their chase so good that they do not run quad slow down, But if you're a D Tier killer like Trapper you consistently need at least 3 slow downs and one of them includes corrupt intervention, because trapper is a Basic killer but his power takes too long to set up plus it is all up to the survivors mistakes and not paying attention, where with Wesker and Billy it's only up to your mistakes
The problem with the quad slowdown build is alot of people become very reliant on it , similar to how alot of newer players can be reliant on NOED. It becomes the only thing players ever know and the thought of using something else is inconceivable. Its understandable why people use it, as you said that powerless feeling as killer absolutley sucks, but 4 slowdowns only really feels necessary on really weak killers like Pig, Trapper ect. When its on a Blight or Nurse it's like "really?! really buddy!? 1 or 2 slowdowns sure but do you REALLY need 3?!"
The big issue is gen speeds being to fast and to easily augmented with very little in the base killer kit to allow for mitigation without running multiple perks. Especially with the additional nerfs to regression it makes taking more regression perks necessary to get the same effect and well here we are. I have broken it down in detail many times might do it here again. Suffice it to say if a chase takes 40 seconds ie 20 seconds per hit and then another 10 getting them to the hook maybe 10 to find the next chase. That's 60 seconds per hook. Assuming no great skill checks no perks and no other bonuses gens take 90 seconds. They need to repair 5 gens and you need to hook 6 times to "draw" 9 to "win". Meaning 450 seconds for survivors and 360 to draw for killer and 540 to win. Note survivors have the ability to do 4 gens at a time even if you have someone hooked someone in a chase and someone unhooking you are still behind on time to win. So you need to make up the 90 second difference. A single flashlight or pallet save, power struggle, decisive, deadhard ect adds 20+ seconds to the timer. Finally they can and should have at least 2 people on gens basically 95% of the time. Meaning that they can half the time it takes to complete those gens. Making 450 into 225. Add to that a few great skill checks or a single toolbox and you can easily cut off 45+ seconds. The first 20ish seconds to find your first chase plus the fact that they can hide and have all their resources means the first chase is typically one of the hardest. Oh ya pallets also reset the chase so you can call each pallet 20ish seconds as well. Ofc certain killers can skip over or ignore a lot of this but there is a reason they are S-tier after all. Anyway that's why gens fly so fast and people resort to things to skip over sections of time. Camping hook can save you 60-90 seconds depending on the survivor plus it pulls 1 or 2 off gen. Since if the person saving doesn't want to trade they need help ect ect also why people slug and tunnel someone on the ground needs to be picked up and isn't doing gens. So you can get the "important" chase going sooner. Once you have 1 person out there is normally no more than 1 on gens most of the time since you will be hooking then someone needs to save rinse repeat. So the time crunch is mostly removed.
"It's not a matter of losing, it's a matter of not getting to play the fucking game" ^^^ this. this right here explains why being new (like me) at DBD feels so awful with how the MMR is so shit. SO often I would be matched against survivors (or even worse, killers) who just were basically gods to me because of how new I was. I can't improve or get better if I'm literally not even allowed to play. This especially hurt when playing survivor since getting constantly tunneled and first-person-killed doesn't leave me a lot of time to practice, get better, and avoid that happening, and at that point it's not about losing, it's that 90% of my matches were just me spectating the rest of the match happening while feeling like shit for being dead weight to my team. It. is not. about. losing.
Love the sweet irony that a basement Bubba allowed us to rush 3 gens at the same time then he slaughter the other 3 people. Could have been a 3x escape but he played them for the real fools. Guess he got value out of the Insidious perk.
Personally, on every killer, I like to run two slowdown perks in my first two builds. That's enough to hold down both weak and strong survivors(most of the time). The rest of the perks are usually focused on information, chase, or stealth/one-shot abilities. My third build is a meme one, or I go full hex lol.
I'm old. I remember behavior nerfing original Ruin. That being said old ruin was devastating for new players while mildly annoying to good players. The issue is now what it was back then, behavior seeing an "issue" with slowdown perks but not not the underlying cause of gen speed. Killers are reactionary, will run what they need to to manage the current game state. If you want killers to stop running slowdown there needs to be some incentive.
I see a lot of people saying it’s untenable to run anything but 3-4 slowdown, and others saying they just “accept losing” when they don’t have it. Am I insane? Maybe it’s because I feel like a 2-3 k that’s close is more fun, but I definitely don’t think I’d say I feel like I’m always losing when I don’t run oppressive slowdown. I definitely lose more, but I still win games just fine and I like when it feels that like, close. Maybe I enjoy the rush of that and others don’t though. Just trying to understand.
In my honest opinion, I do believe the entire reason that quad slow down in so popular is partly because some killer players don't know how to manage their time efficiently. As you progress and get better at the game your game sense improves and you are able to effectively predict/guess what the survivors are doing and where they likely are as opposed to when you first start out or are not as mindful of certain aspects of gameplay. Slow down certainly is not a crutch, but it does give more breathing room with the extra bits of time it provides when adjusting misplays and poor time management.
If a perk or perk combo mitigates or lessens the potential of an un-fun scenario, it will be ran all the time. This goes for both regression and aura reading for as long as survivors don't bring Bardic Inspiration + Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Distortion, then you're basically doing a perkless build on all but a few killers. The problem isn't that these perks exist, the problem is there are too many of them on both sides and they are ran all the time together for this very reason. I'd just tie the regression value to a killer's maximum movement speed (Nurse having ~0.333%, Trapper having 100% and so on).
Well, I moderately agree with you. I still can’t wrap my head around how any killer other than nurse can really deal with those builds that can bring down a generator in 27 seconds. Well, in some cases, I do think it is time management. That is the issue. There is also cases where the killer has no means of facing against such rigorous standards. What is a trapper or a hag to do? I say there needs to be some fixes to generator progression and some reversion of general regression nerfs so that we can have some breathing room so we can make tactical decisions or even be able to bring in perks that build up overtime like lullaby or devotion
Wacky time management is definitely a factor. As a terrible DBD player, I know that sometimes I get totally sidetracked on either side because I don't prioritize the right thing.
@@pocketdust2450 very very true. It's that right balance that I think is what's gotta be found I'm sure. I don't know that balance, that's for sure 😂😭 but I'm sure it exists for good players!!!
Last night my last game was about to be a quad slowdown blight with his best add-ons. I took my 50 secs. Then my next game I got hard tunneled by a huntress. This is the state of dbd.
I usually only run 1 slowdown max now (sometimes none at all). I can still get a 4k or 3k but I don't care if I get a 1k either. I had fun either way, and I know the survivors probably did too. Having fun is more important than winning and sweating.
It's a problem that can't be fixed solely with nerfs or buffs exclusively on the problematic perks, too. Beating the perks with nerf after nerf isn't going to make them undesirable, only difficult and frustrating to use. Slowdown perks by themselves aren't the issue, rather it's the survivor experience being dull and single-minded that's promoting the style of gameplay every killer is trying to counter against to at least experience some form of oppressive control. Until the survivor side gets an overhaul to their gameplay loop, this Meta will likely keep existing until the end of the games' lifespan, no matter the nerfs applied to the perks.
As you said, the killer wins by extending the length of the match, but they also win by killing survivors faster. A few perk categories help killers with this second win condition, but I want to focus on two: Chase Perks and Expose Perks. As DBD currently stands, Killer chase perks are mostly quite boring and weak. That's probably ok, considering each killer has a unique power which should be the enjoyable part of the gameplay. But if you consider the strongest Chase Perks, they are weak, situational, boring or a combination of the three. Brutal Strength and Fire Up are terribly potent. Rapid Brutality and STBFL can be alright on some killers. Blood Favor and Crowd Control are solid, but they are Hex Perks, so they are unreliable. And honestly, this is probably fine because a Chase perk that is overpowered even on a single killer is not comducive for game balance, but this is why chase perks are not meta. Expose Perks are difficult to capitalize on, and justifiably so. Cutting the chase time in half, reliably would be horrible for game balance. Exposed Perks often end up benefiting the killer by acting as preventative measures for certain survivor actions, rather than by actually downing the survivor in a single hit. Friends Till The End discourages the obsession to get the unhook, Hubris discourages the player from stunning killers (on unsafe tiles) Make Your Choice discourages healing after unhook and safe hook rescues. These are the reasons why gen regression/slowdown are meta. Other perk types are weak, as they should be.
Pre Watching of video take: Quad Slowdown is popular because a LOT of people can't have fun if they didn't win. This happens in every pvp game, the match means nothing. The only thing that matters is winning, thats when the fun hits. Meanwhile im tposing in a corner with insidious hoping to scare someone, make this 'horror' game scary again. After watch take: my take is mostly the same. but i do agree that it often feels like killers dont even get to play at all if you dont bring 2 slowdown
I mean I lost a hell of a lot more in the old days as Killer. The big change is it felt like a game even brining themed builds that were not good. I still got to play the match. Nowadays there are more wins, but they are stressful and the losses feel like there wasnt even a game. Much less trying to learn a new killer.
I just want the game to not be over in 5 minutes The fun of the game is chasing survivors not just having 2 or 3 chases and then youre watching everyone t-bag you at the exit gate
It may be boring but with gen regression nerfs quad slowdown for some players is needed. Why should I be forced to play a killer I don't really like because I want to win? Nah sharp hand Joe (freddy) is one of my favorite killers and I refuse to play nurse or huntress if I want to win. The problem is that nerfing regression perks isn't a good solution for balance, nor does buffing toolboxes and gen progression perks. The core issue itself is the perk system and the gen system. Most perks are doo-doo cheeks and the gen system itself is a flawed system that needsto be reworked or changed so it's more fun for both sides. People using quad slowdown would most mostly play with different builds if the other perk types were better or even decent. Hex totems being a good example, They're mostly powerful perks but the survivors can cleanse them...That there is an issue. Just let killers pick the spawn location for a totem by interacting with adull totem, this would include hexes that activate at the beginning of a match. Hexes like two can play, face the darkness, or plaything will work as normal. Hex undying would function the same way it always has, as a price for it keeping your hex active you don't get to choose where the resurrected totem respawns at. Just letting killers choose which dull totem to apply the hex to would make them a viable perk class to use. As for generators? Make each gen require different parts from around the map and have them install the parts. Idk how this would be balanced but's it's better than hitting space every 10 seconds.
You are incorrect. The best meta move for survivors is to continue getting these killer perks nerfed. Hopefully, behaviour will just remove them entirely so that this whole debate settles, and people realize the survivor game this has always meant to be.
@@thedutywarlord264 Killers getting kills should be a sign of bad survivors, anything outside of that is just not healthy for the game. A good squad of survivors should never lose to any killer period. If a killer is winning, something needs to be fixed.
Quad slowdown is so prevalent because killers can't control gens basekit, so gens fly without any gen perks. Sure you can kick them, but no one has never kept gens under control with kicks alone
I don’t get why survivor mains are the only ones allowed to complain. They left MFT untouched for a year and at the same time nerfed the alien after a week or two when nurse and blight were better killers. The survivors who love skill so much (it doesn’t take a lot of skill to play survivor let’s be honest) didn’t want to adapt and learn to counter a killer, they just complained and got what they wanted. Slug, tunnel, run 4 slow down all you want killer mains, the survivors will use every good gen rush and busted exhaustion perk.
I run legion which most can agree he's pretty weak, and i run two gen slowdown as well as two perks that cause exhaustion becuz we all know survivors have at least one exhaustion perk and gens go flying
This is where being on the very casual (and thus, very low MMR) side is ok. I engage with DBD content more than actually playing by virtue of my job and life. I don't get to play as often as I would love to. So my theoretical knowledge of how to use weird perks that newer/infrequent/casual players dont encounter often thanks to my DBD content hyperfixation lets me avoid the boring world of 4 slow down as killer. I like playing twins and I've chatted in endgames where people have told me they've literally only ever come up against another twins player a handful of times lol. So my opinion is moot. This comment is more for the algorithm and in support of casual, console scrubs 😢
Im def the type of person who'll make dumb gimmicky builds on low tier killers. Maybe I just don't run into good survivors enough to run into issues idk. If so I hope it stays that way, dumb gimmicky builds ftw
Something strange i do on dbd is do a gen on a corner of the map, then i go to the opposite corner then i try to do a gen in the middle of the map. Usually helps somewhat break a 3 gen and i just have to rely in my SoloQ teammates or just change my plan a bit
I will say that Quad Slowdown has become more prevalent solely due to gen regression perk nerfs . Before you’d see 1 or maybe 2 slowdown perks and the rest were maybe tracking or chase perks but since this update dropped I’ve seen gens pop extremely fast even with killers running gen regression. Unless your a high mobility killer or a killer wish semi decent map pressure, you kinda rely on a ton of gen regression to give you a bit more leniency when it comes to time management, and I think that argument comes into play more than ever now solely based on how many killers I see running quad slowdown even on top tier killers such as blight or nurse. I personally feel BHVR needs to stop balancing solely on pick rates and maybe look deeper into why a certain perk or group of perks is being picked so much and if they can find the root of the problem, tweak it to where it’s not a problem for either side. Now I know it’s a bit of a stretch given how braindead the BHVR balance team can be but still, it is common sense yet they drop the ball each time it comes to balancing. For every step forward, they take 2 steps back in one way or another. 🤦♂️
Moral of the story, if you want to win, the game won’t be fun, if you want to have fun then you get bored of losing over and over, welcome to DBD
@@ThedreadrogueYT yeh it's crazy this is the first game i've played where people hate you for trying to win
@@ThedreadrogueYTppl will even trash on you for losing even if you get a kill or two
I run 3 slowdown on my trickster because i have to. Sure its boring but at least it isn’t stressful
and the other perk is always bamboozle. lmaooo the trickster life.
I usually run 1 or 2 at max. Im a sadist.
But Knight tho? He can go full slowdown
I feel that, Ruin, Pop, Deadlock with All Ears or something for Aura reveal. 😅
My Trickster build : Blood Favor / Crowd Control / Undying / Retribution
Who even knows what Retribution does ?
I feel as if just having new game modes or different ways to reach an end goal would help in some ways to keep things fresh.
But there's always gonna be some meta somewhere in each of these, and having different ways to reach an end as a survivor (not just gens) would affect slow down perks and would also need tweaking.
But would still be cool to see, but a lot of work to put into.
I miss chaos shuffle. I love running meme or thematic (locker, pallet, flashlight, etc) builds and mostly avoid meta perks. You'll never get away from meta while people can select their perks themselves.
Loved chaos shuffle cause DBD is better when it's not so serious.
Just hard to run fun builds when it leaves you exposed to all the really unfun aspects of the game.
It really was the best. I haven't had that much fun in DBD for years. Definitely since before SBMM. I personally run just about only memes as survivor (more than half involve No Mither for some reason). As killer I try to do themed builds but where I used to be able to do that all day, now every game is stressfull enough that I quit after a few.
Every time I bring fun builds on either side, I end up not having fun whether it's gens flying or getting tunneled out because I'm the only survivor without an exhaustion perk, ds, and off the record.
I still run the fun builds, but instead of playing all day like I used to Ill get a few games then stop. I dont mind losing, but as stated in the video I want to play the game. When that doesn't happen because the gens all get done in under 5 minutes I just don't feel like playing. The balance was worse, but at least there was variety in the old days.
Honestly if they could slow it down I’d be fine with it. Cause I don’t really care what the killer meta is I’ll bring what will give me a decent balance of fun and strong (ie slowdown and chase) but if could idk, not lose 3 gens in the time it takes to complete 1 and 1/3 normally without 1-2 slowdown perks that’d be really nice and would ease off the pressure of needing to bring slowdown, and nerf it on the killer end as well to make it fair. Nerfing slowdown on both ends will not fix the inherent gen regression/progression meta, but I think it would make it more bearable, at least on the killer end.
Honestly agree with this discussion a lot more than I thought I would.
Gen rushing and quad slowdown are just, bad, in my opinion. It's boring, makes people feel helpless, and just doesn't feel fun. Ffs, I play Sadako, a C-D tier Killer. One chase can lead to 2, 3, SOMETIMES 4 gens being popped from Survivors going nuts with their gen perks while I stick with 1 - 2 slowdown perks I like on a build.
There really is a point about the loss not mattering. I don't care all that much about losing anymore, cuz if I'm gonna lose, mother of mercy, I'm gonna lose, but there's a massive difference between losing from getting outskilled, and feeling completely helpless because a loop lasted 45 seconds and 3 gens somehow got done in that time
“Why is quad slowdown so popular?” “Meta- *3 gens pop*”
With the new chapter it is possible for 2 survivors to pop a Gen in 18 seconds and 45 seconds in solo. It is simply not enough time for low mobility killers to traverse most maps. This leads to frustration, stress, less fun, less good chases and 4 minute matches
I run Info/Plaything. As long as I keep survivors occupied, find them quickly, and down quickly (
Hot Take: The game’s main issue with gens are the fact that survivors are most efficient when fully spread apart. Ideally the meta should focus on two survivors working on a single gen to limit the punishment for killers who take a little too long on a gen.
Along with that, I think most Gen regression perks will inherently become too strong because in order to be effective against a full squad they should be able to stall 4 gens at once, therefore each regression perk needs to become SUPER strong.
If Gen regression perks were weaker and survivors stick together the game would be better for less powerful killers because the potential loss is decreased whilst not doing much to benefit the already strong killers.
There are currently in this current build of dead by daylight there are three builds that can complete a generator and under 30 seconds. Not a single build. Three. Why is it that Survivor can do this theoretically it should be impossible. As if we go on the description of the perks, almost every single perk is an additive buff to repair rates or skill checks. However, the actual code shows that this is not true. In fact, there is evidence to show that all generator perks stack, multiplicatively, or even exponentially
Take hyper focus for example. Hyper focus applies a 1.3 repair multiplier charge for every token. Now if it was additive it would apply a maximum of 180% to each skill check which on gens would be 16 charges in a single check. However it may be that it's stacking exponentially. So instead of it just applying 30% additively it takes the total and adds 30% of that to the value so 1 goes to 1.3 which goes to 1.69 then 2.197 then 2.856 then 3.7 then 4.82 so it changes from 180% extra to 482% extra
Gin repair perks follow a similar logic. We’re multiplicative of each other stack in a wonky way that exponentially boost the repair time.
Oddly enough killers can abuse this themselves however it is much more difficult for them to do so. They would either need to use pentimento and thana or pentimento and dying light. In fact, a similar stacking was the entire reason why THANA was Nerf into the ground. As killers using the at the time new pentimento perk and Thana at the same time we’re causing more slow down than what would be the sum of the two perks at once. Instead of just fixing that they decided to completely gut the perk.
Survivors had recently lost their previous builds that allow them to go below 20 seconds by stacking multiple progression perks alongside the exploit with potential energy to basically allow their tool kits to be infinite. And we probably had about a week before Bartig inspiration was added in and oh my God , that perk stacks very crazy with hyperfocus and the hidden extra one percent in stakeout. This means that any single cell check can get 500% boost or 1/18 of the generator done in a single skill check. Now spread this out amongst three or four survivors and it’s easy to see why a generator can just disappear in a single chase. If we fixed gin, progression and regression to how it is listed in the actual descriptions, then it would be literally impossible to finish a general in less than 50 seconds.
@@springtrapnibba yeah I try not to say something I cannot do myself. I've tried but I couldn't get that fast yet but I'm not surprised.
How on earth is a killer supposed to handle that?
@@springtrapnibba oh no I’m aware of it spiders has become a generator equivalent of healing circle and old bop and hyper focus and bardic stack extremely wonky as both calculate the boost off each other’s percentages. But there are versions where you don’t need a bnp that still get done sub 30 seconds solo
I believe that maybe 10 percent of killers want to run 4 slowdowns and tunnel every game they do it because thats the only way with certain killers to win. Like my Trapper, who I understand is bad, but if I run corrupt and set up, I will be down 2 gens with a 3rd at 90 percent. If I don't run that and decide to hook than setup it takes a good minute to find,chase, and hook the 1st survivor, and you still lose 2 gens without being set up. Obviously, maps are a factor, but at the core, 4 survivors are op, and once it's down to 3, if you have 2 gens left that aren't ready to pop, killers basically win. The game is what it is, and it's too bad. Very well said and explained video
Personally my two meta perks I bring every single time is grim embrace and oppression. Oppression allows for gens that have hit the regression event limit to still regress as other gens effected by it don't count as regression events. So it bypasses the 8 limit it spreads a nIce amount of pressure and saves me time not having to kick gens. And sometimes it will give me info if a survivor misses the hard skill check if there on a gen that it procks. These two perks I find sufficient enough as slowdown if you have good game and macro knowledge and a headset (sorry kaiser) and I still have two perks slots available to fill with whatever I like maybe a nowhere to hide or no way out
Back in my day old Ruin on its own was enough gen slowdown
Then once it got nerfed the meta because corrupt + pop
You could run BBQ, Enduring, Spirit fury, brutal, STBFL, thrilling tremors, discordance, infectious, nurses etc.
Ever since Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer meta slowdown has felt so boring for both sides
Things like Pain res, call of brine, eruption, overcharge, grim embrace, deadlock
They just stack and stack and stack
Makes me think old ruin wouldn’t be good in today’s meta
There’s no solution to the problem either because as they nerf slowdown that makes people have to stack more since using less of them is not effective at all even if stacking them is weaker than stacking them prior
I think theres a bit of a discussion to be had about what we expect from games in DBD at all. No one enjoys losing when they feel like what they do doesn't matter, and the killer blocking and regressing your progress so often can get extremely boring for the survivor. But it's also really boring dealing with that chase you struggled in just to watch gens fly. And something I think doesn't help is the "skill issue" attitude a lot of players have about this. I've a LOT of hours on dbd, both as killer and survivor, though I'm better at killer, and one core thing I notice about the game that people don't talk about is just how much mental energy it takes to do well in a game. When I play killer, I am literally one person keeping my watchful eye over four other psople and running all over the map to pressure them while being worried about a billion microfactors that could disadvantage me. In every chase, I'm using more than 1% of my brain CONSTANTLY with every single direction turn I make, and as a killer you're pretty much always chasing for modt of the game. As a survivor, I feel it's a lot lighter a load, even if the cost of that is that losing is more annoying since it's also on the teammates. I can sit on a gen for a full minute and just think about nothing other than what's going on in the HUD and whether or not the terror radius is showing (unless it's a stealth killer but whatever) along with my escape route. That downtime is something that gets overlooked a lot I think, but what really bugs me is how that mental strain is treated. I AM playing a game, aren't I? Isn't the goal supposed to be fun? Why should I have to hyperfocus on minute details or suffer from less than ideal teamwork to enjoy a match? Why do I, as a killer in this case, always need to give my all every single time to have an entertaining game? I'm not saying we should do absolutely nothing but meme in the horror asymm game (I am the FIRST one to show you that my snoot is NOT an exit gate ticket), but dbd's hyper competitive meta does get draining. And I know there's the whole "just stop playing" thing, but dbd genuinely does make me happy and I play it all the time, that feeling of so much extra effort being exerted is typically gone before the next queue for the most part. But I still think the community could benefit from loosening up on the gens/hooks attitude just a bit.
TLDR; I think unfun strategies like this one are kinda symptomatic of a larger problem with how uber-competitive dbd's community can be. We don't need every game to be this super long tug of war where everyone is constantly teying their hardest and exhausting their brain cells to get the win, maybe the devs or just sheer communal yapping can encourage a dbd that's less stressful and thus demanding of these builds and more relaxed. Games do need their casuals after all.
A combination of several things. majority of killer perks suck, the popularity of Distortion makes aura perks not worth running, gen speeds fly most games without slow down and it makes games not as stressful.
"what the killer can do lies somewhere between jack and shit" " you choices end up being somewhere between fuck and all" god i dont know how you come up with these but they are my favorite
The only time I bring slowdown is when I learn the killer, because my global MMR is so high that when I'm experimenting with new killers I'm getting destroyed. Then I progressively remove every Slowdown. My Clown, my Slinger and my Trickster for example don't have any slowdown, regardless of that I somohow 4k at 5 gens with my Clown yesterday without slugging nor camping nor tunneling, just constant pressure leading them to not have any time to work on gen. And even when I do take slowdown, I prefer blocking then regression because Survivors can do other things during this time and it's less boring. (Grim Embrace being my favourite one even before it's buff)
tbf most survivors are actual bots, thats why solo q is so bad and thats why you can win most games with no slowdowns
@@gibbybtw280 That's not true unless they disconnect, but this doesn't happen that often (once every 3 games and generally when they are dead on hook so it doesn't change anything...)
5:53 I’m dying Kaiser, thank you for helping me smile today.
why 4 gen slowdown? idk why WoO, DH, lithe or sprint burst, DS, and and adrenaline?
Plus it also depends on how strong the killer is, you can play an A Tier killer like Hillbilly or Wesker and run 1 slowdown cuz their chase so good that they do not run quad slow down,
But if you're a D Tier killer like Trapper you consistently need at least 3 slow downs and one of them includes corrupt intervention, because trapper is a Basic killer but his power takes too long to set up plus it is all up to the survivors mistakes and not paying attention, where with Wesker and Billy it's only up to your mistakes
The problem with the quad slowdown build is alot of people become very reliant on it , similar to how alot of newer players can be reliant on NOED. It becomes the only thing players ever know and the thought of using something else is inconceivable. Its understandable why people use it, as you said that powerless feeling as killer absolutley sucks, but 4 slowdowns only really feels necessary on really weak killers like Pig, Trapper ect. When its on a Blight or Nurse it's like "really?! really buddy!? 1 or 2 slowdowns sure but do you REALLY need 3?!"
The big issue is gen speeds being to fast and to easily augmented with very little in the base killer kit to allow for mitigation without running multiple perks. Especially with the additional nerfs to regression it makes taking more regression perks necessary to get the same effect and well here we are. I have broken it down in detail many times might do it here again. Suffice it to say if a chase takes 40 seconds ie 20 seconds per hit and then another 10 getting them to the hook maybe 10 to find the next chase. That's 60 seconds per hook. Assuming no great skill checks no perks and no other bonuses gens take 90 seconds. They need to repair 5 gens and you need to hook 6 times to "draw" 9 to "win". Meaning 450 seconds for survivors and 360 to draw for killer and 540 to win. Note survivors have the ability to do 4 gens at a time even if you have someone hooked someone in a chase and someone unhooking you are still behind on time to win. So you need to make up the 90 second difference. A single flashlight or pallet save, power struggle, decisive, deadhard ect adds 20+ seconds to the timer. Finally they can and should have at least 2 people on gens basically 95% of the time. Meaning that they can half the time it takes to complete those gens. Making 450 into 225. Add to that a few great skill checks or a single toolbox and you can easily cut off 45+ seconds. The first 20ish seconds to find your first chase plus the fact that they can hide and have all their resources means the first chase is typically one of the hardest. Oh ya pallets also reset the chase so you can call each pallet 20ish seconds as well. Ofc certain killers can skip over or ignore a lot of this but there is a reason they are S-tier after all. Anyway that's why gens fly so fast and people resort to things to skip over sections of time. Camping hook can save you 60-90 seconds depending on the survivor plus it pulls 1 or 2 off gen. Since if the person saving doesn't want to trade they need help ect ect also why people slug and tunnel someone on the ground needs to be picked up and isn't doing gens. So you can get the "important" chase going sooner. Once you have 1 person out there is normally no more than 1 on gens most of the time since you will be hooking then someone needs to save rinse repeat. So the time crunch is mostly removed.
"It's not a matter of losing, it's a matter of not getting to play the fucking game"
^^^ this. this right here explains why being new (like me) at DBD feels so awful with how the MMR is so shit. SO often I would be matched against survivors (or even worse, killers) who just were basically gods to me because of how new I was. I can't improve or get better if I'm literally not even allowed to play. This especially hurt when playing survivor since getting constantly tunneled and first-person-killed doesn't leave me a lot of time to practice, get better, and avoid that happening, and at that point it's not about losing, it's that 90% of my matches were just me spectating the rest of the match happening while feeling like shit for being dead weight to my team. It. is not. about. losing.
Love the sweet irony that a basement Bubba allowed us to rush 3 gens at the same time then he slaughter the other 3 people. Could have been a 3x escape but he played them for the real fools.
Guess he got value out of the Insidious perk.
Personally, on every killer, I like to run two slowdown perks in my first two builds. That's enough to hold down both weak and strong survivors(most of the time). The rest of the perks are usually focused on information, chase, or stealth/one-shot abilities. My third build is a meme one, or I go full hex lol.
I'm old. I remember behavior nerfing original Ruin. That being said old ruin was devastating for new players while mildly annoying to good players. The issue is now what it was back then, behavior seeing an "issue" with slowdown perks but not not the underlying cause of gen speed. Killers are reactionary, will run what they need to to manage the current game state. If you want killers to stop running slowdown there needs to be some incentive.
spell check. quad not qaud. much love kaiser.
i usually run 2 slow's, Bitter Murmur and some form of chase perk
I see a lot of people saying it’s untenable to run anything but 3-4 slowdown, and others saying they just “accept losing” when they don’t have it.
Am I insane? Maybe it’s because I feel like a 2-3 k that’s close is more fun, but I definitely don’t think I’d say I feel like I’m always losing when I don’t run oppressive slowdown. I definitely lose more, but I still win games just fine and I like when it feels that like, close. Maybe I enjoy the rush of that and others don’t though. Just trying to understand.
In my honest opinion, I do believe the entire reason that quad slow down in so popular is partly because some killer players don't know how to manage their time efficiently. As you progress and get better at the game your game sense improves and you are able to effectively predict/guess what the survivors are doing and where they likely are as opposed to when you first start out or are not as mindful of certain aspects of gameplay. Slow down certainly is not a crutch, but it does give more breathing room with the extra bits of time it provides when adjusting misplays and poor time management.
If a perk or perk combo mitigates or lessens the potential of an un-fun scenario, it will be ran all the time.
This goes for both regression and aura reading for as long as survivors don't bring Bardic Inspiration + Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Distortion, then you're basically doing a perkless build on all but a few killers.
The problem isn't that these perks exist, the problem is there are too many of them on both sides and they are ran all the time together for this very reason.
I'd just tie the regression value to a killer's maximum movement speed (Nurse having ~0.333%, Trapper having 100% and so on).
Well, I moderately agree with you. I still can’t wrap my head around how any killer other than nurse can really deal with those builds that can bring down a generator in 27 seconds.
Well, in some cases, I do think it is time management. That is the issue. There is also cases where the killer has no means of facing against such rigorous standards. What is a trapper or a hag to do? I say there needs to be some fixes to generator progression and some reversion of general regression nerfs so that we can have some breathing room so we can make tactical decisions or even be able to bring in perks that build up overtime like lullaby or devotion
Wacky time management is definitely a factor. As a terrible DBD player, I know that sometimes I get totally sidetracked on either side because I don't prioritize the right thing.
@@TheAbigailDee If everyone prioritized the objective we'd have a horrible time.
@@pocketdust2450 very very true. It's that right balance that I think is what's gotta be found I'm sure. I don't know that balance, that's for sure 😂😭 but I'm sure it exists for good players!!!
Last night my last game was about to be a quad slowdown blight with his best add-ons. I took my 50 secs. Then my next game I got hard tunneled by a huntress. This is the state of dbd.
I usually only run 1 slowdown max now (sometimes none at all). I can still get a 4k or 3k but I don't care if I get a 1k either. I had fun either way, and I know the survivors probably did too. Having fun is more important than winning and sweating.
It's a problem that can't be fixed solely with nerfs or buffs exclusively on the problematic perks, too.
Beating the perks with nerf after nerf isn't going to make them undesirable, only difficult and frustrating to use. Slowdown perks by themselves aren't the issue, rather it's the survivor experience being dull and single-minded that's promoting the style of gameplay every killer is trying to counter against to at least experience some form of oppressive control.
Until the survivor side gets an overhaul to their gameplay loop, this Meta will likely keep existing until the end of the games' lifespan, no matter the nerfs applied to the perks.
As you said, the killer wins by extending the length of the match, but they also win by killing survivors faster. A few perk categories help killers with this second win condition, but I want to focus on two: Chase Perks and Expose Perks.
As DBD currently stands, Killer chase perks are mostly quite boring and weak. That's probably ok, considering each killer has a unique power which should be the enjoyable part of the gameplay.
But if you consider the strongest Chase Perks, they are weak, situational, boring or a combination of the three. Brutal Strength and Fire Up are terribly potent. Rapid Brutality and STBFL can be alright on some killers. Blood Favor and Crowd Control are solid, but they are Hex Perks, so they are unreliable. And honestly, this is probably fine because a Chase perk that is overpowered even on a single killer is not comducive for game balance, but this is why chase perks are not meta.
Expose Perks are difficult to capitalize on, and justifiably so. Cutting the chase time in half, reliably would be horrible for game balance. Exposed Perks often end up benefiting the killer by acting as preventative measures for certain survivor actions, rather than by actually downing the survivor in a single hit. Friends Till The End discourages the obsession to get the unhook, Hubris discourages the player from stunning killers (on unsafe tiles) Make Your Choice discourages healing after unhook and safe hook rescues.
These are the reasons why gen regression/slowdown are meta. Other perk types are weak, as they should be.
Pre Watching of video take: Quad Slowdown is popular because a LOT of people can't have fun if they didn't win. This happens in every pvp game, the match means nothing. The only thing that matters is winning, thats when the fun hits.
Meanwhile im tposing in a corner with insidious hoping to scare someone, make this 'horror' game scary again.
After watch take: my take is mostly the same. but i do agree that it often feels like killers dont even get to play at all if you dont bring 2 slowdown
I mean I lost a hell of a lot more in the old days as Killer. The big change is it felt like a game even brining themed builds that were not good. I still got to play the match. Nowadays there are more wins, but they are stressful and the losses feel like there wasnt even a game. Much less trying to learn a new killer.
YES! That feeling of helplessness is what I hate!
I just want the game to not be over in 5 minutes
The fun of the game is chasing survivors not just having 2 or 3 chases and then youre watching everyone t-bag you at the exit gate
late quad fish
It may be boring but with gen regression nerfs quad slowdown for some players is needed. Why should I be forced to play a killer I don't really like because I want to win? Nah sharp hand Joe (freddy) is one of my favorite killers and I refuse to play nurse or huntress if I want to win. The problem is that nerfing regression perks isn't a good solution for balance, nor does buffing toolboxes and gen progression perks. The core issue itself is the perk system and the gen system. Most perks are doo-doo cheeks and the gen system itself is a flawed system that needsto be reworked or changed so it's more fun for both sides. People using quad slowdown would most mostly play with different builds if the other perk types were better or even decent. Hex totems being a good example, They're mostly powerful perks but the survivors can cleanse them...That there is an issue. Just let killers pick the spawn location for a totem by interacting with adull totem, this would include hexes that activate at the beginning of a match. Hexes like two can play, face the darkness, or plaything will work as normal. Hex undying would function the same way it always has, as a price for it keeping your hex active you don't get to choose where the resurrected totem respawns at. Just letting killers choose which dull totem to apply the hex to would make them a viable perk class to use. As for generators? Make each gen require different parts from around the map and have them install the parts. Idk how this would be balanced but's it's better than hitting space every 10 seconds.
You are incorrect. The best meta move for survivors is to continue getting these killer perks nerfed. Hopefully, behaviour will just remove them entirely so that this whole debate settles, and people realize the survivor game this has always meant to be.
I hope it's sarcasm because wtf
@@thedutywarlord264 Killers getting kills should be a sign of bad survivors, anything outside of that is just not healthy for the game. A good squad of survivors should never lose to any killer period. If a killer is winning, something needs to be fixed.
@@CrowbornChaos bait used to be believable.
@@thedutywarlord264 lol i just like people freaking out over it. It is the dumbest take i could think of lol
Quad slowdown is so prevalent because killers can't control gens basekit, so gens fly without any gen perks. Sure you can kick them, but no one has never kept gens under control with kicks alone
I don’t get why survivor mains are the only ones allowed to complain. They left MFT untouched for a year and at the same time nerfed the alien after a week or two when nurse and blight were better killers. The survivors who love skill so much (it doesn’t take a lot of skill to play survivor let’s be honest) didn’t want to adapt and learn to counter a killer, they just complained and got what they wanted. Slug, tunnel, run 4 slow down all you want killer mains, the survivors will use every good gen rush and busted exhaustion perk.
New meta pain res pop weave attunement and franklins
I run legion which most can agree he's pretty weak, and i run two gen slowdown as well as two perks that cause exhaustion becuz we all know survivors have at least one exhaustion perk and gens go flying
This is where being on the very casual (and thus, very low MMR) side is ok. I engage with DBD content more than actually playing by virtue of my job and life. I don't get to play as often as I would love to. So my theoretical knowledge of how to use weird perks that newer/infrequent/casual players dont encounter often thanks to my DBD content hyperfixation lets me avoid the boring world of 4 slow down as killer. I like playing twins and I've chatted in endgames where people have told me they've literally only ever come up against another twins player a handful of times lol. So my opinion is moot. This comment is more for the algorithm and in support of casual, console scrubs 😢
Quad slowdown plus slugging gotta get that dub by any means
You can thank BHVR for making it impossible for anyone except high tier killers to keep gen defense.
Quad slowdown isn’t even worth it anymore with all the changes. It’s all about pressure/end game punishment now.
Im def the type of person who'll make dumb gimmicky builds on low tier killers. Maybe I just don't run into good survivors enough to run into issues idk. If so I hope it stays that way, dumb gimmicky builds ftw
I wish i could run something other than quad slowdown but its near impossible
i can run just pain res on my main im fine lmaoo
@@gibbybtw280 my problem is I play slinger, he's slow with no map presence so I can't go back and forth
@@youraveragefloridaboy519 i didnt actually think about slow killers without slowdown since i play wesker,demo and huntress
Something strange i do on dbd is do a gen on a corner of the map, then i go to the opposite corner then i try to do a gen in the middle of the map. Usually helps somewhat break a 3 gen and i just have to rely in my SoloQ teammates or just change my plan a bit
4 slowdowns is overkill imo.
it really is and then people start crutching on it