Just purchased a Blizzard 060 for the A1200. Been several years since I last owned one and whilst the TF is an incredible product, running a nice Phase5 board feels more nostalgic.
Nice Video “Q”! 👍🏻 A4000 vs A1200, Lettttttttttssss! Get readyyyy! Toooooo Rumbbble!…..Fight! 👊🏻👍🏻😉 Always prefer the Classic accelerators. But hey to keep these beasties alive, we need new blood. I’m so surprised there aren’t any A3K or A4K new accelerators out yet… I know there are some on the way… But hey.. 🤔
First of all, nice video! As much as i love all Amiga, i must say, paying 4x the price of an Amiga1200 for an Amiga3000/4000 is absolutley jack s...! totally waste of money, all TF cards are amazing, those highprices for blizzard cards are waste of money, soon with TF4060 the cyberstorm mkii prices will also be rediculas. only reason to pay 2000euro for an Amiga 4000 is cuz its cool looking, nothing else. Sad but true! -Retrocengo
I got my Phase5 a long while ago. Back when cheap. The 4000 was a very nice price as well. I always try to hunt down and be patient for best deals and avoid the high prices. Thanks for watching too!
@@HoldandModify i had the 500 back then, re soldered the board to 1mb chip Mem, added 8mb of Ram and had a 20mb HD in a Golem, changed out the Agnus and was running WB2.1, that thing did it all
DirOpus was something I properly fell in love with, the PC version was never as good (imo) unfortunately. On Linux I almost always have Krusader if possible that gets fairly close. Never really got too invested in other similar ones like TotalCommander.
Huh, I was surprised it rendered on screen. I was expecting you to have to pull the screen down like I used to on Imagine3D to get faster rendering! lol
@@HoldandModify Oh yes. Dragging the screen down gave you a HUGE speed boost. The computer only needed to draw about 2 or 3 lines of the screen iirc so could focus more resources on rendering. My A500+ with (gasp) 2megs very much needed it lol
@@HoldandModify Dunno if it would have much of an impact on something as comparatively powerful as a 68060, but it definitely did on my A500+ lowly 68000 lol I'd be interested to see the results if you do.
except its not, Yes the 4000 was OK if we look at stock computers since it had 68LC40, but all the rest was underperforming when compared to ATARI, MAC or intel PC competition. And not, Light Wave is not a raytracer, the POV is. LW is a renderer with pathfindig post processing shadow and reflections effects, but that is not raytracing. Is LW good? Yes it had very nice workflow and was easy to learn, were there better visualization programs on market? Yes, LW has not the best final quality and is not very accurate dimension wise, so it is a nice toy, maybe even good for artists, but not the best for anything technical. I know HaM will disagree as a long decades LW user, but it is what it is....
Easy answer? Madness. Longer answer? Some folks collect and spend money on retro cars. Nerds like me and others? Retro computers. I’ve got modern Pi and FPGA cards for my Amigas, but keeping it classic and original is still its own level of fun and nostalgia.
Yeah, pixel aspect ratio on the Amiga was always an issue if you weren't outputting to video but on displays expecting square pixels you'd have to use a "Productivity" resolution, which will be more inline with PC and Mac displays, and feature square pixels, while the Amiga's native screens almost always have a slightly tallish, rectangular pixel assumption. Including 320x200 which is 1.6:1 squeezed to 4:3. Commodore never had a satisfactory solution for this for Workbench and consequently I was always disappointed by lack of proportional looking windows, regardless of font selection or all the desktop add-ons and dress-ups that people loaded on there. I wonder what a modern digital display would make of one of the AGA "35ns pixel" screens, which could look amazing, but a bit unwieldy outside character generator software and sadly seemed really underutilized for video output in favor of all the interest in RTG solutions and then fixed framebuffer devices like the PAR, Toaster, Flyer, etc.
@@HoldandModify Well, truthfully that was mostly for some of your comment readers who might have been lucky enough to never have to deal with such weird engineering as non-square pixels. I remember once I thought I was going to lose my lunch during a delivery because I wasn't sure if I was going to have enough time to re-render something that was supposed to be round and it came out not quite round, lol.
5.0 is fully optimized for 040. So it is leaving some potential performance in the table but the 040 code tweaks really do see a healthy boost with the 060. The 060 itself is a fairly robust backwards compatible instruction set.
had a 4000, worked for Apple centers a this time . got a RMA for quadra950 40 mhz , swapped the processor of the Quadra with my Amiga ... was underpaid ....
You need a pair of PVMs I think Amigas and Atari STs and even C64s and Apple IIs look best on a 15KHz monitor. Like a 1084... I don't like the way these OS's look on modern flat displays. To be honest I'm just madly in love with scanlines and to that end I refuse to play retro game consoles on anything but a 15KHz monitor with scanline and I love the way it makes Amigas and similar systems look. Just my opinion!
Use the BenQ BL702A VGA 16 inch LED monitor. On my AMIGA 1200 with Indivision AGA MK3 and a fast TF1260 with a Rev6 CPU on it. Use it only for 68060 Demos wifh 50MHz. Wich is great to watch on it and razor sharp with PAL 15.6KHz. You must tweak with the Indivision AGA MK3 but it’s nice to use. It’s not so great than on a very old Commodore RGB monitor. RGB is always the best second VGA. Now i have not so lucky with the Vampire V4 SA on a 24 inch BenQ HDMI monitor. Not so great fan of AROS and last new Core. Hope that come be better than the crap which i use now kn it. Abd i still be happy with the old Blizzard 1230 IV that’s still the best card for the AMIGA 1200 and for WHDLoad Games and Demos. For the rest i have a okay ACA1221 and ACA1233n-55 on my AMIGA 500. The best thing i use the last 6 years is the ACA500Plus V1 and the V2. Would like to have a AMIGA 1000 but that’s very rare here in the Netherlands. Hope that i soon have the Raspberry Pi 400 Kit for PiMiga 2.0 or a PiStorm for fast RTG FPS Games. The Vampire V4 us for that to slow and for WHDLoad to fast. Do now only ScummVM Games on it. You have a great AMIGA collection.
Is the A4000 using a double-ntsc mode to drive the vga monitor? Does that affect performance at all? Are you using any 68060 patcher, like cyberpatcher or oxypatcher?
No patcher. Not needed for the Mk.II as far as I know, but admittedly I don’t know a lot. The monitor is a modern panel that can handle 15khz. I have an old video where I cover it.
@@HoldandModify You don't need to run Cyberpatcher or Oxypatcher, but using them will give your 060 a boost. Nice to have 15khz monitor. If you were using a double-ntsc screenmode (or dblpal), would that slow the machine down any? I thought it would, but my brief google searches proved fruitless.
@@jjdigitalvideosolutionsllc5343 this modern panel only supports OCS Amiga screens. Can’t use dbl or super72 modes. Heck even Multiscan throws it. Weird. Those modes do use up more chipset bandwidth, yes. However my PicassoIV is on its way back to me. So that’ll solve that. :)
I know you would no longer do it normally for safety reasons (gotta preserve your Amiga herd), but it would be REALLY cool to see a mixed systems render farm up and running on Amigas, crunching a short scene together. After watching the scene, you can break down which box contributed the most scenes, etc. Maybe throw a thermal camera up in the corner. Current monitoring to calculate power per frame on each machine. Wait.. that sounds a little over produced for you ;)
That sounds pretty cool! You’re hired as my Producer. Now make it happen! :) Time, knowledge, and money, are lacking to make that possible. I could do a scaled version maybe. Having the machines render assigned frames then see how long it took. As for thermals? No cheap way really that I know of.
I'd be curious how that benchmark would do on a Rasberry Pi running Amiga emulation. Back in the day I was a huge Amiga fan so it boggles my mind that a little single board computer like that can emulate the Amiga faster than any real amiga.
@@HoldandModify I would like to sell the whole lot because I haven't used them for a long time, but I would like to sell them only to some passionate expert who knows how to use them well without damaging them. I have no idea how much they are worth today, so I would prefer to auction them on ebay
there will soon be a new update for the firmware of the TF1260 that bumps speed on cached stuff even more.. :)
That’s great to hear!
Ship that re amiga 3000 so we can test it against that!!!
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration 👍
That sort of benchmark is amazing, please do another with a higher resolution and anti aliasing on, I would love that.
Thank you very much!
Noted! Thanks!
Just purchased a Blizzard 060 for the A1200. Been several years since I last owned one and whilst the TF is an incredible product, running a nice Phase5 board feels more nostalgic.
True. That old HEAVY Phase5 board has the full FEELS. Heh.
I was pretty shocked at that result, in a good way. Is there anything regarding temps or cooling playing a factor in that sort of benchmarking?
Not really. I run that TF1260 for long periods and other than getting only warm, notice no fall off in speed.
Nice video! Is it a Cyberstorm MK1, 2, or 3 in the A4000? That may make a difference as well. The MK3 had faster memory than the MK2 for example.
MkII! Oops!
Doesn't the indivision board allow for pixel timing, so you could correct the resolution to screen size.
Yes. I need to dive deeper into it.
Nice Video “Q”! 👍🏻 A4000 vs A1200, Lettttttttttssss! Get readyyyy! Toooooo Rumbbble!…..Fight! 👊🏻👍🏻😉 Always prefer the Classic accelerators. But hey to keep these beasties alive, we need new blood. I’m so surprised there aren’t any A3K or A4K new accelerators out yet… I know there are some on the way… But hey.. 🤔
I keep hearing murmurs that 3k and 4k type cards are coming. MURMURS!! :)
First of all, nice video!
As much as i love all Amiga, i must say, paying 4x the price of an Amiga1200 for an Amiga3000/4000 is absolutley jack s...! totally waste of money, all TF cards are amazing, those highprices for blizzard cards are waste of money, soon with TF4060 the cyberstorm mkii prices will also be rediculas. only reason to pay 2000euro for an Amiga 4000 is cuz its cool looking, nothing else. Sad but true!
-Retrocengo
I got my Phase5 a long while ago. Back when cheap. The 4000 was a very nice price as well. I always try to hunt down and be patient for best deals and avoid the high prices. Thanks for watching too!
@@HoldandModify In that case, it makes perfect sense. I hope you are having a good time enjoy em.
New here, you just got a new subscriber
@@RETROCENGO thank you! I have a lot of videos. My old ones can be hard to watch from bad quality but I do it for fun!
@@HoldandModify That’s the best way to do it, just have fun with it. This one was enjoyable, thanks
The 4000 needs a Cybergraphics or Picasso and then it's worth everything....
That viewsonic looks cool, what model is that (I’m in the market for a new secondary monitor)
Yup, I made a video about it a couple years ago. Viewsonic VX2476-smhd th-cam.com/video/Yx354YKXazw/w-d-xo.html
@@HoldandModify wow ty, added to watch later.
Nice new intro, me liking it.
Back in the day I had a Blizzard 060 in my tower A1200, but get this, with 96mb of RAM! I never thought I'd ever need more RAM, ever.
I used to think 32mb was massive. :)
DirOpus ?? men i loved that Program way back then, it was the best
Still use it! (on Amiga, love it)
@@HoldandModify i had the 500 back then, re soldered the board to 1mb chip Mem, added 8mb of Ram and had a 20mb HD in a Golem, changed out the Agnus and was running WB2.1, that thing did it all
Great upgrades and makes it even better!
@@HoldandModify it sure did, good memories, Pinball Fantasies, Pinball Illusions, Elite, Civilization, Formula ONe Grand Prix etc etc
DirOpus was something I properly fell in love with, the PC version was never as good (imo) unfortunately. On Linux I almost always have Krusader if possible that gets fairly close. Never really got too invested in other similar ones like TotalCommander.
Quite the horse race there
Wild Stallions! :)
@@HoldandModify Which one are you, Bill or Ted?
@@daishi5571 I’m more a Rufus. ;)
I think those Dell monitors are 5:4 ratio, rather than 4:3.
I always get that wrong!
Huh, I was surprised it rendered on screen.
I was expecting you to have to pull the screen down like I used to on Imagine3D to get faster rendering! lol
Lol! That’s funny. Didn’t know that was a thing.
@@HoldandModify Oh yes. Dragging the screen down gave you a HUGE speed boost. The computer only needed to draw about 2 or 3 lines of the screen iirc so could focus more resources on rendering.
My A500+ with (gasp) 2megs very much needed it lol
@@Delboy001647363 that’s a good one! I’ll try it with Lightwave too!
@@HoldandModify Dunno if it would have much of an impact on something as comparatively powerful as a 68060, but it definitely did on my A500+ lowly 68000 lol
I'd be interested to see the results if you do.
The Amiga is amazing at raytracing!
It is.
except its not, Yes the 4000 was OK if we look at stock computers since it had 68LC40, but all the rest was underperforming when compared to ATARI, MAC or intel PC competition.
And not, Light Wave is not a raytracer, the POV is. LW is a renderer with pathfindig post processing shadow and reflections effects, but that is not raytracing. Is LW good? Yes it had very nice workflow and was easy to learn, were there better visualization programs on market? Yes, LW has not the best final quality and is not very accurate dimension wise, so it is a nice toy, maybe even good for artists, but not the best for anything technical. I know HaM will disagree as a long decades LW user, but it is what it is....
the 1200 is just super sleek, its a boss.
Absolutely!
whats the point of all these accelerators, when a $50 rpi can crush them like they were nothing?
Easy answer? Madness. Longer answer? Some folks collect and spend money on retro cars. Nerds like me and others? Retro computers. I’ve got modern Pi and FPGA cards for my Amigas, but keeping it classic and original is still its own level of fun and nostalgia.
Amiga RULEZZZZZ !
No need to appologize for filming off screen. Its efficient and your camera is plenty clear.
Thank you! The power of the smart phone cam! :)
Yeah, pixel aspect ratio on the Amiga was always an issue if you weren't outputting to video but on displays expecting square pixels you'd have to use a "Productivity" resolution, which will be more inline with PC and Mac displays, and feature square pixels, while the Amiga's native screens almost always have a slightly tallish, rectangular pixel assumption. Including 320x200 which is 1.6:1 squeezed to 4:3. Commodore never had a satisfactory solution for this for Workbench and consequently I was always disappointed by lack of proportional looking windows, regardless of font selection or all the desktop add-ons and dress-ups that people loaded on there.
I wonder what a modern digital display would make of one of the AGA "35ns pixel" screens, which could look amazing, but a bit unwieldy outside character generator software and sadly seemed really underutilized for video output in favor of all the interest in RTG solutions and then fixed framebuffer devices like the PAR, Toaster, Flyer, etc.
Thank you for clearing that up. I really didn't have a clear understanding of it all. The way you described it makes some sense finally.
@@HoldandModify Well, truthfully that was mostly for some of your comment readers who might have been lucky enough to never have to deal with such weird engineering as non-square pixels.
I remember once I thought I was going to lose my lunch during a delivery because I wasn't sure if I was going to have enough time to re-render something that was supposed to be round and it came out not quite round, lol.
Is Lightwave optimized for the 68060?
5.0 is fully optimized for 040. So it is leaving some potential performance in the table but the 040 code tweaks really do see a healthy boost with the 060. The 060 itself is a fairly robust backwards compatible instruction set.
had a 4000, worked for Apple centers a this time . got a RMA for quadra950 40 mhz , swapped the processor of the Quadra with my Amiga ...
was underpaid ....
!! You rockstar!
You need a pair of PVMs I think Amigas and Atari STs and even C64s and Apple IIs look best on a 15KHz monitor. Like a 1084... I don't like the way these OS's look on modern flat displays. To be honest I'm just madly in love with scanlines and to that end I refuse to play retro game consoles on anything but a 15KHz monitor with scanline and I love the way it makes Amigas and similar systems look. Just my opinion!
Just so hard to find CRTs today. Esp where I'm at. Even then they always have issues and way too pricey to ship around fixing.
Use the BenQ BL702A VGA 16 inch LED monitor. On my AMIGA 1200 with Indivision AGA MK3 and a fast TF1260 with a Rev6 CPU on it. Use it only for 68060 Demos wifh 50MHz. Wich is great to watch on it and razor sharp with PAL 15.6KHz. You must tweak with the Indivision AGA MK3 but it’s nice to use. It’s not so great than on a very old Commodore RGB monitor. RGB is always the best second VGA. Now i have not so lucky with the Vampire V4 SA on a 24 inch BenQ HDMI monitor. Not so great fan of AROS and last new Core. Hope that come be better than the crap which i use now kn it. Abd i still be happy with the old Blizzard 1230 IV that’s still the best card for the AMIGA 1200 and for WHDLoad Games and Demos. For the rest i have a okay ACA1221 and ACA1233n-55 on my AMIGA 500. The best thing i use the last 6 years is the ACA500Plus V1 and the V2. Would like to have a AMIGA 1000 but that’s very rare here in the Netherlands. Hope that i soon have the Raspberry Pi 400 Kit for PiMiga 2.0 or a PiStorm for fast RTG FPS Games. The Vampire V4 us for that to slow and for WHDLoad to fast. Do now only ScummVM Games on it.
You have a great AMIGA collection.
Thanks! And thank you for all the info!
Is the A4000 using a double-ntsc mode to drive the vga monitor? Does that affect performance at all?
Are you using any 68060 patcher, like cyberpatcher or oxypatcher?
No patcher. Not needed for the Mk.II as far as I know, but admittedly I don’t know a lot. The monitor is a modern panel that can handle 15khz. I have an old video where I cover it.
@@HoldandModify You don't need to run Cyberpatcher or Oxypatcher, but using them will give your 060 a boost.
Nice to have 15khz monitor.
If you were using a double-ntsc screenmode (or dblpal), would that slow the machine down any? I thought it would, but my brief google searches proved fruitless.
@@jjdigitalvideosolutionsllc5343 this modern panel only supports OCS Amiga screens. Can’t use dbl or super72 modes. Heck even Multiscan throws it. Weird. Those modes do use up more chipset bandwidth, yes. However my PicassoIV is on its way back to me. So that’ll solve that. :)
I know you would no longer do it normally for safety reasons (gotta preserve your Amiga herd), but it would be REALLY cool to see a mixed systems render farm up and running on Amigas, crunching a short scene together. After watching the scene, you can break down which box contributed the most scenes, etc. Maybe throw a thermal camera up in the corner. Current monitoring to calculate power per frame on each machine.
Wait.. that sounds a little over produced for you ;)
That sounds pretty cool! You’re hired as my Producer. Now make it happen! :)
Time, knowledge, and money, are lacking to make that possible. I could do a scaled version maybe. Having the machines render assigned frames then see how long it took. As for thermals? No cheap way really that I know of.
I want a stock 68000 with enough RAM to render comparison! ;-) Make that an xmas special lol it'll take that long (or seem to)
Lol! Noooooooo!!! :)
ehhhm. If you want it to look correct, you should maybe use an interlaced crt screen
Heh well of course! But those are hard to find and tough to maintain. There are scaling options I’m playing with though. Getting closer.
Nice video!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the kind words.
I'd be curious how that benchmark would do on a Rasberry Pi running Amiga emulation.
Back in the day I was a huge Amiga fan so it boggles my mind that a little single board computer like that can emulate the Amiga faster than any real amiga.
If you search my videos I have some covering Pi400, WinUAE and Apollo products. You can skim through them to the juicy bits. I don’t mind. :)
The text rendering looks like crap on the 4000. Indivision is nice for sure.
Yeah in my more recent videos for MkIII I matched it to a better monitor and better settings for its profiles and it looks super awesome!
I have a Blizzard 1260 + 128MB ram if anyone is interested in selling it on ebay along with the 1200 + Genlok G-look :)
Nice! Wait you are selling or looking for some one to sell?
@@HoldandModify I would like to sell the whole lot because I haven't used them for a long time, but I would like to sell them only to some passionate expert who knows how to use them well without damaging them. I have no idea how much they are worth today, so I would prefer to auction them on ebay
Oh okay. Understand. Well, I wish you success and hopefully they find a happy home!