Catastrophic Engine Failure Cause Revealed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2023
- About 18 months ago, I shared my catastrophic Engine experience, which included two videos about the emergency and the experience that followed over the next several hours.
Engine Failure
• Cirrus Engine Failure ...
What Happens Next?
• What Happens After An ...
The questions have continued to flow in asking what caused the engine to fail. That question is answered here.
Sharing only the facts, leaving opinions and finger pointing to others, my goal is to educate any of you interested in the cause and lessons learned.
I appreciate your comments and thank you for being part of the Passion For Flying family.
Blue Skies and Tailwinds!
Any engine out/dead stick landing without damaging the airframe is a tremendous win! Congrats on that! I'm truly sorry for your financial loss of the engine but you handled it well. Safe flying going forward.
that is just a regular day for glider pilots, all landings are "engine out" landings. It is mind boggling how pilots go directly to flying powered planes before learning to fly unpowered planes like gliders.
@@newnewmee44 Agreed, glider pilots do it every time they fly, but there are a couple very important differences, one is glide ratio. A bad glider still has about double the glide distance of a clean powered plane. Another is expectation. A glider pilot is fully aware that he doesn't have power and is planning his approach accordingly. Powered aircraft rarely experience an engine out and when they do the entire flying sequence from that moment on changes drastically. A good pilot occasionally scans for possible landing sites in case of that scenario, a great pilot executes a zero damage landing when his powered aircraft suddenly becomes a dirty, brick laiden glider.
@@newnewmee44 also, remember that gliders have right of way over powered airplanes. You guys don't have to extend the downwind leg because of other traffic in the pattern. Just like we clear the area when the skydive lawn darts are dropped, we do the same for gliders.
I'd love some glider experience, but I doubt it would help me land the piper warrior off field by differently. The glide ratios, gross weights, cg, are all so different from airplane to glider. Plus you guys rarely land off field because you plan the wind and pressure differently than we do. And your wingspan would probably hurt field selection somewhat in more wooded areas. We can't ride a thermal up unpowered to make it back to the airport as well.
@@newnewmee44 Maybe you should work on changing the regulations and make it mandatory to get your glider certificate first?
@@buckeye2246 there are already too many regulations in place.
In 55 years of working on engines including aircraft and indusrial marine, I have never seen or heard of a spun bearing being "caused" by bearing shift. Unless there is a major mechanical defect in the bearing tabs or the bearing support notches they fit into, it is almost impossible for the bearing to shift without substantial force or heat usually caused by lubrication failure prior to the bearing shift. If the oil passage to that bearing was tested and proven clear it would strongly suggest that there was a defect in the bearing or the bearing bore in the case. I would be very concerned if Continental suggests that a bearing in my engine could simply shift out of position at random to be the cause of such a catastrophic failure. Most of my flying is E/W across the Cascade mountains, often at night, and there is usually no off airport landing available.
As a builder of my own race motors I had the same thought, what, the bearing shifted! Something was wrong with the part or installation at Continental.
Read more NTSB reports. The conclusions they make or fail to make are frequently absurd. They have a tough job, and they are overwhelmed, but poor failure analysis is killing pilots. My TSIO-550 went down because of a fatigue failure of the camshaft gear. The NTSB/FAA have reviewed dozens of these failures. This failure has killed at least 8 people. They have never found the root cause! Not because they can't; I'm certain they could've with mine; they just didn't look beyond a very deep analysis of the failed part itself. Not any of the other mating parts that, due to a defect, could've generated a cyclical load on the gear. GA engine failure analysis needs an overhaul.
Agreed
TSIO-550 crank failure in flight, busted at a cheek (not related to the bearings). No sudden stoppage preceded this. 800smoh Texas Oct2020 $120K, down 3 years looking for & getting replacement engine. No airframe damage in highway landing.
If the proper torque is not applied to the through bolts at the bearing holder the bearing can indeed shift. The tabs hold it in position during assembly only. The compression of the bearing halves applied by the bolts through the crankcase hold the bearing in place. Improper torque during a cylinder removal is known to result in this failure.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Marc. Sorry you had to go through that, but grateful you’re willing to offer some guidance to the rest of us as a result.
Thanks for being part of the family. Appreciate your comment.
The locating tab on a bearing is only for locating it at installation, the crush is what holds it in place. From these pics it hard to tell why it lost it's crush but the lack of burn color on the bearing eliminates the lack of oil. So it boils down to case align bore too lose from either bad machining or incorrect torque or a crank with runout could also oil hammer the bearing enough to eat up the crush. My educated "guess" is component pre-assembly inspection fail or assembly fail. If it came out of my shop I'd be grateful that it didn't kill you & accept responsibility.
I noticed he didn't share the through bolt torque values he mentioned being documented.
Ive been building high performance auto engines for 30 years. I think your view is spot on. Sad the reason didn’t get revealed here. Im always looking to educate myself. Unfortunately in many of the failures we see the rpm is 7 to 10000 rpm. Sometimes hard to analyze due to massive destruction at that rpm. However majority of the failures we see are due to detonation or lack of maintenance. Doesn’t look like that was the case here..
Exactly!
@nz...8054 - great explanation throughout & excellent last line! This is a great example of transparency that upholds aviation’s great safety record compared with that of human health services...
Yes, there human error somewhere there, assuming the engine design is not a contributor eg insufficient bearing support crank case material. Modern automotive engines typically are much more robust in design than those of, say, 50 years ago.
What I didn’t hear in your thorough debriefing is what caused the bearing to shift in its mount. Was it improper torque? Was it a materiel failure at Continental? Assembly error? Maintenance error during scheduled maintenance? The failure cause is important because it can’t be corrected if unknown.
With total transparency, I admit to holding back on my opinion of what caused the bearing to shift. I am not in a position to make the ultimate call. Based on the report and conversations, I have come to a conclusion. In the spirit of being fair to all parties (mentioned or unmentioned), I am purposely keeping my opinion to myself and deferring to smarter people than me to draw conclusions.
@@pfflying6275 that’s ridiculous. You have a report of findings. What were they? Nobody’s asking you to give your opinion I wanna know what the experts opinion was
Improper torque during cylinder replacement. The bolts that hold the cylinder pass through the #2 bearing race and compress the bearing halves to prevent movement. Don’t torque them properly and the bearing shifts.
What did the insurance do? Did they just pay the claim or did they persue others? It is not your call, it is the insurance company’s. Shouldn’t the insurance company pick up all the cost for finding the cause of the failure?
Yea exactly, we just want the findings of the the report not this goofy pilots meandering LaLa land nonsense. He sounds like his mind is in Disneyland.@@dennisnbrown
It appears the main bearing cap displays fretting damage. This would suggest a problem with bolt torque.
Good job finding a field. I had a loss of engine power incident with a student recently and we remedied it before it was a real emergency so I know the stress you were under. Excellent emergency management.
What a great video. When you mention "cylinders being worked on" it brought to mind a problem that can arise when cylinders are removed and the related main bearing through studs are unloaded. Bearing clamping is lost and if someone disturbs the prop at all, it can shift. Proper practice is to install nuts/washers on the thru studs and torque them to restore bearing clamp. Another thing that comes to mind is when a bearing is breaking down like that, one of the really obvious symptoms is large amounts oil dumped out the breather as the amount of atomized oil spraying out around the bearing becomes a gusher. If the airplane has an oil separator, this can be masked of course. I was once forced down by a cylinder stud failure of a Cont O-470 in a C-180 on floats, on a remote lake in N Ontario, in 1990. It hadn't quite fully let go, but was about to by the time I landed. I was out of radio range of anybody with a VHF unless they were overhead or within 20 or 30 miles or so. I didn't want to set off the ELT. Then I noticed a contrail overhead, and made a PAN call on 121.5. Airliner responded, contacted my base for me on Unicom, and I was rescued with my two fisherman passengers that afternoon.
Great post. Very informative. Thank you.
True...for main bearings. However, this specific case was a rod bearing that failed and has nothing to do with the case torque.
Roger. My impression was the rod bearing failed because the main one had shifted and blocked the passage to the rod journal.@@Berkut13
I overhaul these engines for a living and ive recently had one come in where the counterweight on the crank seperated and hit the right side of the case, the crank then spun around and pushed what remained of the counterweight through the engine and out the side of the aircraft. strange considering that the 520 and 560 continental engines are usually very relible. happy youre okay too marc :)
Hey Aristopher, if you had to guess. What’s the rough cost to overhaul a Cessna 150 or 172 on average? Any help would be amazing, I’m in the process of purchasing a 150 or a 172 in the Midwest and want to make sure I have my ducks in a row. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 😃
@@Traps_Trades we charge upwards of $50,000 AUD sometimes less, sometimes more. All depends what parts are U/S and machining work etc
@@ARISTOPHER__ thank you!!
Wow. Once I learned about how engines are "trying" to blow themselves apart 😜, it amazes me, how well the system works. I bet you have a lot of great stories.
@@Traps_Trades 172 expect about 40k USD
If you encounter a maintenance problem, always go back to the last thing you fixed. In this case, the cylinder. Mike Busch has written several good articles on the subject. When cylinders are removed, and torque is lost on the though bolts, the bearings can shift if proper procedures are not followed. Well done handling the emergency.
Love the Mike Busch videos. I learned a lot from him.
i had seen a case where a mechanic had removed all the cylinders and another man in the shop was spinning the prop while the bolts were out they were replacing cylinders after that was caught they had to tear complete engine apart ando complete overhaul
Well done. Master Class in how to share your experiences in a professional manner.
Hey I remember this! Thank you so much for the update. Great job on all fronts!
Thank you for your well thought out posting. As you say, we can all learn from each other’s experiences and yours is an outstanding example of how that can be enhanced by removal the emotion and reducing the examination to the known facts. Very educational I thought. Glad you are here to share this all with us. Have fun, fly safe.
Thank you.
Great information, impartially delivered. Well done, Sir, and congratulations again on a well executed emergency landing. Glad you're back in the skies again!
Thanks for your comment and nice words.
Been waiting for this follow-up. Thank you. Your first video of the landing was practically a textbook example of doing everything right. It's natural to question things after incidents, but your experience made my confidence go up. If only because I could remind myself that emergencies can be dealt with, and we _usually_ have the final vote on outcome, hardware be damned. Like that one voice said, you "flew the plane to the ground."
Glad to see you up and about, and appreciate you not pointing fingers. Humans are human. We mess up. This time it only cost money. Sounds callous, but I'm learning it to be true. Thanks again.
Thanks for the comment. Really glad your confidence is up. I'm on a path to be more vocal about confidence being the means to a lot of positive ends. And confidence comes from proficiency, knowledge, and experience. It's a never ending journey with valuable rewards along the way. Blue Skies!
All around excellent video! I'm so glad you made a follow up. Was always wondering what happened next! Thank you so much
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting.
I disagree that your aircraft engine is "trying to tear itself apart . . . " Fuel air mixture burning in the cylinders are not explosions - they are a controlled burn which results in expanding gases. While watching a piston engine run may give the appearance for "huge" forces, reciprocating parts are balanced and designed to exceed the forces placed upon them. It is a flawed baseline of analysis that the engine is at the edge of coming apart at any point of normal operation. Air cooled gasoline engines are exceptionally reliable. The shifting of a connecting rod bearing (or crankshaft bearing) is not the root cause. The root cause is what caused the bearing to shift. It doesn't sound as though anyone ever told you, or you don't feed comfortable discussing it. Torque values of the associated main or rod caps would definitely be of relevance. Anyone who watched this video looking for what they could do to prevent this failure were left with little to no useful information.
Thanks for the comment. The statement about the engine trying to come apart was from my conversation with the Continental technician. I am sure he was speaking tongue in cheek and trying to talk at my level. Your point is valid.
As for the cause of the shifted bearing, I struggled with the decision not to "go there". I am not an expert and the analysis I received was only facts, not opinions. To your point, in the end, I was not comfortable discussing it.
The debrief is where we all become better aviators. Thanks for the detailed report.
As the saying goes, I violently agree. Knowledge is power. Thanks for the comment.
That’s why I prefer Lycoming engines, built a bit tougher. Been an A&P for 35+ years and would have to say that I’ve seen far more failed Continentals. I didn’t hear any mention of the thrust washer on this Continental. Sounds to me a lot like a walking crankshaft to me. Rebuilt engine or as delivered from the factory? Someone didn’t get the thrust washer tolerances correct. I don’t think I have ever seen a “spun bearing” in an aircraft engine, plenty of oil starved bearings, occluded oil feel holes, failed thrust washers, lack of lubrication, etc etc. Glad you got down safely.
And…..Lycoming isn’t owned by the Chinese
Great video, many thanks!
Some great lessons learned here. Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome. What lesson did you find most valuable?
How your recurrent training kicked in. Not all hours are created equal. I have been doing a lot of xcross country IFR flying recently and have not been hand flying enough.
Awesome. That was my main point with the first video. Regardless of what kind of plane we fly, if we stay proficient, by studying, training, and practice will give your brain what it needs to mitigate risk and maximize the odds in our favor. Love it.
Your point regarding engine internal pressures is well-taken. Small point: Engines are NOT subject to "EXPLOSIONS" within the cylinders under normal operation... the air/fuel mixture burns. Detonation (pinging) is audible, undesirable, & an example of when an internal combustion engine (not internal explosion engine) is performing outside of its design parameters.
I'm getting a lot out of this video. Thanks.
You are correct of course. I was just trying to create a visual that matched the message. Sounded good when I said it last night. ;-)
I'm a 110hr pilot and I too had an engine faliure, luckily no injuries or damage to aircraft or property. Mine was continental engine too.
JC! WHAT A PUCKER MOMENT THAT MUST HAVE BEEN! You are still in one piece. You are in the bonus round. It’s all good man.
If you go back to the original video, you'll see for what ever reason, I did not have a pucker moment. Surprised the heck out of me. The brain took over and took my emotion out of it. The brain can be amazing. Thanks for commenting.
@@pfflying6275 No pucker moment? You are one up on every Navy pilot that has made a carrier landing! Congrats!
Of course I am not one up on any professional pilot and especially not on any military pilot. I had an oh shit moment (ie "this can't be happening right now"), but I define a pucker moment as one of fear. That didn't happen. My brain that thinks, anticipates, compares and contrasts, and makes decisions, was nowhere to be found. It was all about execution. I have a data point of one, so maybe it was because there was a field right there. I have no idea why, but there was no fear and only a focus on flying.
I always find it interesting how these very expensive archaic engines that run at relatively low rpm at a constant rate usually around 3000rpm or less blow up at only 2000 or less hours.
Knowing the care given to these engines are first rate during their maintenance schedules ,the best oil and filters and inspection of the cylinders etc ,even the fuel 100LL
is better than pump gas at more than 50k dollars an engine I would expect much higher reliability, such a shame .
I think that you answer your own question- the engines used in planes like this are in fact archaic designs. The problem faced by plane owners these days is that general aviation is too small and thus no one can afford to design, build and certify engines that use 21st century technology. It’s probably a big reason why you see snowmobile engines adapted for aviation use these days.
Good ! analysis and learning ,make you a better Pilot.
Hi Marc, thank you for all the work that goes into creating this content. Is the conclusion that it can happen to all of us, that it is just bad luck despite all the checks and maintenance that is done on aircraft engines?
I'd like to say there is more to it than that, but your conclusion is pretty spot on. I am hopeful that my increased education on the engine side will keep me more attuned to what's going on. For example, I mentioned the recent AD for my new engine. Sitting down with the shop manager to discuss how the cylinder's would be inspected gave me confidence that things were being done by the book. If a discrepancy had come out of that conversation, it potentially would have saved my bacon, so to speak. I started watching Mike Bush videos on engine maintenance, and I talked with Continental about the concept of torque plates and how many cylinders could be removed at one time sort of thing. Similar to flying the plane, knowledge is very empowering, so I recommend pilots expand that concept to the maintenance side... even just oil changes, etc. Lots for us to learn, but makes us better and safer pilots. Thanks for your comment.
same thing happened too me, I forgot to declare a mayday but fortunately was at 0 feet AGL on a grass lawn and the mower and me sustained no damage. (except for that big hole with the piston hanging out).
Now that made me laugh.
The part that baffels me, with any item that is insured. Why would insurance go up when you have a non-pilot error incident. That is exactly WHY you have insurance, to cover incident expenses. To increase after an accident is simply unethical!
If anything, your costs should go down. Your chances of having two catastrophic engine failures must be lower than your chances of having one. 😏
Don't get me started. ;-) Insurance is deserving of its own topic down the line.
@@pfflying6275 sorry for starting you 🥴
@@edgarwideman737 There’s a Rolling Stones joke in here somewhere.
@@edgarwideman737 🤣
I'm confused Continental makes the engine, Company X fixes them. The user operates the plane attached to them and insures all of it "just in case." Then "something" happens engine failure is the cause. Owner's insurance has to pay out. Owner pays higher premiums. Is there no liability to the manufacturer or maintenance company or does the insurance company fight it out with them through subrogation?
We are all left to guess. I’m assuming Continental took no responsibility and blamed it on the shop that did the cylinder work that’s all I can determine based on what do you details were given
As with most things in life, the answer is "It depends". So many factors go into the equation and so many answers come out. Maybe a topic for another video or podcast (probably been discussed before as well).
Very "pleasant" video but not many answers... I'm glad you are alright and can fly again. If there is a lawsuit involved I can understand your hesitancy to place blame. However if an incorrect bearing was fitted or improper or inadequate tightening of the related hardware allowed the bearing to shift, it's pretty important that the information is released because other owner operators may be at risk.
As said in other responses, I could state what t I think caused the bearing to shift, but there have been multiple mechanics respond with their opinions based on their training and expertise as professionals in this space. Seems smart of me to defer to them. Without being specific, I also want be respectful of the potential impact to others if I started to point fingers. Thanks for understanding.
Was more than one cylinder removed 61 hours prior to the incident?
Yes.
@@pfflying6275 Back when I was young, it was common to remove multiple cylinders at the same time without the tooling necessary to keep the through bolts in tension. Older and hopefully wiser, I keep the manuals open and avoid removing cylinders unless absolutely necessary. I applaud your discretion regarding the blame game and congratulate you on your forced landing and successful return to flying.
Thank you@@darrylday30 .We learn new things every day.
There is a hint from your statement that the cylinders were worked on. For certain, if both ends of the thru bolts are not torqued during cylinder install, there is a likelihood of undertorque on the respective thru bolt. This will result in bearing shift and loss of oil pressure, followed by castastrophic engine failure. Not torquing both sides of the engine, that is the nut(s) on each end of the respective tru bolt if a recipe for this type failure.
Much respect! for a balance for life. A great role model of light year's ahead of anger and self control. And true values. You Sir are a true Pilot.. God bless!
Very kind comments. Thank you.
THANK YOU
I am an A&P IA and have a 182 with Cont 0470 which I changed all 6 cylinders on it about 50 hrs ago. I did not use torque plates but thought I would be out of the woods after 10 hrs of break in. Sounds like you have educated yourself well on this problem and how it happens. Even as a mech, it is a bit confusing when torquing all of the through bolts and cylinder head nuts. I'm curious if your cylinder change was done with the engine on wing or in a stand? I do think it is easier to allow the race to move if the engine is in situ. Mike Bush's video on it had me worried and now with yours happening after this many hours I am still worried.
I do not believe it was on a stand. I watched the same video. Very informative.
I can’t believe it’s been a year since you posted the last video. Wow. Thanks for the update. I commended you then and I commend you now for the exceptional emergency landing.
Would you consider an interview with Dan Gryder? That would be great. We need to highlight examples like yourself.
This engine out pull and immediately pull the chute and destroy the airplane nonsense is getting out of control.
I don’t like cirrus planes and most their pilots for this reason.
I see it as a plane that people think they can buy their way out of training type
Of thing.
As long as you have options to land, land. If you don’t or the plane has structural damage then you have a back up plan.
Excellent job on executing a near perfect dead stick off field landing and double points for doing it in a cirrus.
I’m going to keep my comments to myself on the failure itself. Just glad it all turned out how it did and that you shared your experience with the community.
I talk to anyone. ;-) Dan is generally focused on recent incidents, so not sure he is interested in talking to me.
Your comments about Cirrus pilots "buying their way out of training" is a little broad.
My experience with so many pilots, is they share our commitment to safety and proficiency. I am part of a 100 member flying club and the interest in becoming better pilots is off the charts. Many of them own Cirrus' and I have relationships with a lot of Cirrus pilots outside the club. Almost without exception, they are committed to training and their skill level shows it. Of course the same could be said for my Bonanza, Archer, TBM, etc etc etc. pilots. I also think Cirrus does a great job with so much of their training. In the end, I applaud all pilots that take pride in being proficient. Interestingly, Cirrus does agree with you on one point. In the POH, they state that if a hard surface option exists, the pilot should take that over the chute, because the chute has risks. In so many other scenarios, the statistics support the use of the chute as the safer option. There are scenarios in which the Chute would be a less safe option, so its up to the pilot to think through their pull/no pull strategy on the ground, so we''re better prepared while in the air. Anyway, love the discussion. Thanks for bringing it up.
@@pfflying6275 thanks for the reply. I suppose I’m a bit biased and your point is definitely valid in that there are many cirrus pilots that do take pride in training.
For me I feel maybe there’s just been a handful of incidents that support what I said so it left a bad taste in my mouth.
It also seems that so many support pulling the chute over an off field landing. So many say oh once that engine goes out it’s the insurance
Companies plane.
Now I’ll be the first one to recognize, I’m saying that in the comfort of my home, not in the air with an engine failure and a chute.
I also feel that part of my opinion may stem from the fear of seeing that trend continue.
Of course I hade seen a few cases where the pilot opted for the chute and had plenty of options to land.
I think the chutes are great and of course I’d choose to have one if I could over not having it. I just fear that more people will trend away from training because of it. Which I know has happened.
But I guess it’s closed minded to say most cirrus pilots seek a chute to supplement training.
I’ll work on my perspective.
The most recent cirrus fatal in Tom’s River nj hit close to home. That’s the airport I use to visit my mother. She lives minutes from there.
I wish I had more info on it other than a messed up go around.
My guess was he was vfr. It was night and I personally wouldn’t fly in there night vfr. It’s a non lighted runway and a very dark area.
Not much for good options for an off field. There’s senior communities, busy highways and pine trees. He almost flew over my mothers house on one of his patterns.
No chance with chute that close to the ground.
But of course I had to have my speculation and I may be right with that one. 3 failed attempts to land. Knowing that airport and area well I suspect it was inexperience.
I personally would never fly in that airport vfr at night. It’s just too dark in that area.
But I first chalked it up to another cirrus pilot who thought they could go buy a new state of the art plane and get their private in a few weeks and have fast mode of transportation.
Sure that may be the case in some cases but as you support, it’s not the whole picture.
Just that those few cases do leave such a bad taste in my mouth. But your right. At the end of the day I’m being closed minded. Like saying all middle eastern people are terrorist. I know that’s not even close to true.
I appreciate you.
Love the comment. Thoughtful and articulate. The pilot community is special. Community is made up of two root words, COMMON UNITY. That which binds us together. We all love and are addicted to aviation. The community is a nice break from the divisiveness of the world around politics, religion, gender, race, financial, etc. Our different opinions around LOP vs ROP, North Up vs Track Up, High Wing vs. Low Wing, or Chute vs. No Chute (etc.) are generally OPEN and RESPECTFUL discussions among people that care about doing the right thing in the spirit of safety. I understand where you are coming from and know you are not alone.
On a bit of a tangent, one of the things I learned from the engine out, is that it's really easy to give a perspective from behind a keyboard. After my experience, you will never hear me say, "What was that pilot thinking" when in an emergency situation. My decision making self, disappeared when the engine failed. I went to total execution mode. I never would have guessed that. So when people said to me, "if that was me, I would've done X or Y". My thought is Maybe or Maybe Not. Hopefully they'll never have to find out. Sorry for the rambling and stream of consciousness.
@@pfflying6275 100%. Aviation community is second to none. The most amazing people found in aviation. Not rambling. It’s just chatting among the community which is a good thing.
Definitely I am the first to know and say. One never can fully be sure of how one will act or respond in any given situation until they are in it.
Especially when it comes to armchair piloting.
We would like to think we would be able to do what we think or say in a given situation but no one can say for sure and it’s definitely easy to say anything while safely on the ground, in a calm mind with time to think and bo emergency present.
I have mixed emotions obviously with the ballistic chutes but overall I am all for an added layer of safety. Just don’t think it’s to be abused or to replace anything but to add to the safety layers.
Even for all the ga planes flying without a chute. Too many pilots become complacent.
I think there’s training and lessons that should be learned in every flight regardless of the mission.
Flight de briefs with others or self, self awareness and just always striving to learn and improve our skills and knowledge.
But too many get that cert and don’t continue training and bettering themselves.
I saw a video if this guy in a cirrus scud running departing I think Chicago.
Blew my mind. He claimed in his title it was the scariest flight he’s ever had. Seemed like an easy ifr departure. But why people don’t go for an instrument rating especially with a plane like that just blows my mind.
If everyone had to be instrument rated beyond the 3 hour min requirement for private we would save a lot more lives I think. If being current in instruments was part of regular currency for private I think more would be saved. BUT that is the pilots choice. Which I’m not one for regulation and control at all. It’s just that they are gambling with a hefty price tag, their life.
"a minor discrepancy that caused a bearing to shift"
You must be kidding.
People tell me I tend to understate things. ;-)
So what made the bearing shift covering the oil outlet?
I have drag raced for many years and during that time have spun my share of rod bearings. Usually, at least from my experience, when the bearing clearance becomes too large the connecting rod can no longer "keep ahold" of the bearing and it starts rotating on the journal and the rod fails. Were the rod bolts properly torqued? Did the bolts stretch?
This has to be pretty rare for a rod bearing to leave its groove and shift out of the bore like that. Spun rod bearings are a dime a dozen, but this is something else.
I’m going to posture it was a bad bearing or a poorly installed one.
You get the award for the first comment. It will be interesting to see the comments as they come in. I love the dialogue from all pilots. We all have something to share, which helps us all build knowledge. Thanks for commenting.
I think he said #2 main bearing shifted which blocked oil to the #2 rod bearing.
@@darrylday30But the question is, why did that happen to begin with?
Exactly. The video doesn't actually explain the root cause of the failure, only what mode it took. My question is why did the bearing shift? It is not normal or expected without having a root cause. @@OneAlphaMike
That's rare to have a main bearing shift. Did it rotate or move laterally?
one thing you didn't elaborate on was your decision not to hit the silk. I am pretty sure I would have done exactly the same thing you did. Most all of my 1200 hours have been just above sea level in the area much like the terrain you described. N/W Louisiana is ripe with cotton and corn fields. I have run the possibility of having an engine out and how I would handle it. You did a superb job, sir. Hope you're not flamed too badly for Not pulling the chute.
Blue sky & Cheers from Louisiana.
I'm going to be lazy and cut and paste my last response to the same question from yesterday. I do appreciate you taking the time to comment and ask the question.
I have answered this question over 1,000 times, so I did a poor job of telling the full story. Happy to clear it up here. First, why didn't I pull. As soon as the emergency occurred, I felt like my part of the brain that executes, rather than thinks, took over. All the things I did mirror'd what my instructor and I practiced 5 months earlier. The closest I came to making a decision was ignoring the rest of the 3-2-1 checklist and ignoring the urge to find the closest airport. In both those cases, my brain told me to move on. It was an amazing experience and taught me how wonderful our brain can be if we give it all the right data. By the way, I had trouble making analytical decisions for the next several hours. The adrenaline must've had something to do with that. I will never question a pilot's decision making in an emergency anymore. It's too easy to say what you'd do when behind a keyboard. Bottom line, the chute never was considered when my brain took over. I brief the chute on takeoff's and would use it at night, over bad terrain or populated areas, so I am OK with the chute, but need to train my brain better for enroute emergencies. Also, there are times when I would not use it. On the lake shore in Chicago. If Lake Michigan is too cold too survive and the chute would take me over the lake to my certain death, I would rather put it on a beach due a few extra percentage points on my side. The chute is not a 100% answer. If you read the Cirrus POH, it warns you the chute can kill you and should be considered if a better option does not exist. Mostly a hard surface is the preferred option. Let me know if you have any more questions.
@@pfflying6275 Thanks for the reply. Cut and paste away. Pretty sure that question may have come up. lol
This seems to me to be a very common occurrence to this day. I can't understand why? Maybe some people that work on aircraft engines can enlighten us. It is my understanding that replacing or simply removing cylinders from engine necessitates removing certain through-bolts from the case halves. This results in the possibility of the crank bearings to "float" out of their appropriate and required location. Further, there is no way to asses whether this actually occurred during any particular engine's cylinder maintenance/replacement. It's been a while since I've had to research this scenario for myself, but my question is if my assessment is accurate, why is there no better/safer method for performing this type of engine service!? Why do pilots have to play Russian roulette just to be able to get their aircraft back in the air??
Safeguards do exist for those of us that maintain these engines, a good rule of thumb is to NOT rotate the crank when the hardware is loosened for the through studs. I cringe when I see an engine with multiple cylinders removed (without using base plates), that's exactly how you spin a main bearing. Also, the nuts on the opposite side of the studs where the cylinder was replaced must be torque checked following a cylinder replacement. After all hardware is properly torqued, a torque stripe should be applied to each nut and looked at each time the cowl comes off. Make sure your maintainer knows this before allowing them to remove a cylinder.
+1 on this. Not installing base plates on a cylinder removal can cause the case halves to ‘relax’ and allow the bearing to move. When I heard it was only 61 hours since cylinder replacement this immediately sprung to my mind.@@Hooknspktr
@@HooknspktrThank you.
This sounds like a very plausible explanation.
In other words….”your engine just blew up” NICE JOB saving your plane in an off field landing!👍👍
Perfect comment. That’s all we know
Appreciate your video and congratulate you on surviving an off-field landing. How long did it take you to find the field you ultimately landed in?
Thankfully I wasn't over Cleveland yet. I'm guessing about 10 seconds. I had less than 2 minutes from engine failure to being stopped on the ground. It was about a minute and a half from the start of my Mayday call. I don't recall any compare/contrast decisions. I looked forward and to my right and saw the field, with some concerning trees I would pass around on my base leg. Needed to do the 180 as there was a strong tailwind in my current easterly direction.
@@pfflying6275Amazing how fast it happens! In both engine outs I had it was 90 to 120 seconds I was on the ground. My Instructor drove into my head to always have a landing spot picked out so when it happens you don't waste time looking for a spot, you can just focus on getting there. I often will fly around large areas of trees or houses to ensure I can always make it to a field. The glide was nothing like a simulated engine out with engine at idle. The prop drag, lack of prop wash over the tail all had a significant impact in how she handled.
Our training and practice get the muscle memory going, but certainly each incident is unique. Sorry you had to go through it twice, but glad you're here to talk about it.
I’ve been weighing taking flying lessons versus ATF Bomb defusing. Giving the ATF a call today.
🤣
First, I wanted to say great job on how you handled the circumstances. But my question is you’re equipped with a ballistic shoot what made you decide to land rather than activate the parachute? No judgment at all in fact I would have done exactly what you did. Glad you are safe to fly again.
I didn’t see your first video but I found a similar question and saw your answer. Again good job!!
In all my years of experience as a Engine tech Main bearings just do not move in the main bearing bore like the pics show without a reason. The locking tab grove in the case was incorrectly made or the bearing was defective.(ie bearing locking tangs made on the edge of the bearing).2 more possibiltys are crankshaft trueness(was the crank straight) or main bearing saddle alignment. All these issues point to the engine manufacturer. And finally main bearing oil clearence the bearing was to tight on the journal of the crank. I believe this one was on the engine maker Oh by the way great landing
Because there was a top overhaul 61 hours prior, some have drawn different conclusions. Still, the main purpose of the original video was to provide some optimism and confidence to pilots that trained and practiced for emergencies. The cause of the bearing shift has fallen into three "camps". Improper torque/stretch of the through bolt, improper process of removing all cylinders and/or lack of torque plates, or manufacturing defect. I defer to the experts, like yourself, to come to their own conclusions. I listen and learn from all of you guys.
I have 80 hrs in a sr20 at any point did you think about pulling caps or did you know the area well and those big open fields knew you were going to do an off airport? Just curious on your thoughts
Pull the chute. 2600 cirrus hours here.
I did not think about anything. And therefore made no conscious decisions. Because of some excellent training, my brain took over. The concerning point is I need to be able to add some critical thinking when the poop hits the fan. I should consider CAPS. In the back of my mind, I believe I would've pulled the chute if I were over a populated urban city, or at night, or lost control, but not sure. Back for more training.
NASA Engineer here,.... We use 'Breakaway Torque' also, but it means almost nothing, unless there was a very large change in value. And if the torque is near something that is at fault, again it means nothing.
disassembly torque values are subjective and inconclusive. Connecting rod end cap fasteners require a thread locker, many variables contribute to the adhesive strength and longevity. The heat and pressure of a oil starvation situation affects connecting rod lubrication and heat for the rods that are down stream and they are simultaneously being scoured by microscopic metal contaminants which causes heat which enlarges parts and affects torque values. Understanding the connecting rod manufacturing process also helps shed light on connecting rod cap vulnerabilities, what happened here was a 'spun bearing' high operating loads, excessive heat and lubrication failure of any kind causes bearings to spin. I'm leaning more towards lubrication failure, probably a viscosity issue from heat which could be from low quality oil, incorrect oil or low oil level.... Anyway, nice parking job, glad you're alive
Interesting comment. Thank you.
Regarding the oil, we use Phillips X/C 20/50, keep it fresh and I departed with over 6 quarts (8 quart max). The oil had about 26 hours on it.
@@pfflying6275 Only three things will cause a bearing to 'spin' and three things only, high operating loads, excessive heat and lubrication failure. Does your aircraft engine come equipped with data logging? I would like to see engine temp, oil temp, oil pressure and RPMs the moments before failure...
Usually when you look at a motor failure, you find red painted cylinder bases, skipped bearing changes on a casual top overhaul, badly maintained accessories or fluids, or a pilot who warms up an engine like the Samsonite gorilla. I guess the gods of air mechanics didn't smile on you that day.
Thank you for this video. I’d love to get more details if possible.
Can you please be a bit more specific.
@@pfflying6275 I think you know what everyone wants to hear.
Bearings should never move around in a connecting rod or a crank bearing. This either shows an improper torquing of rod bolts that loosened allowing bearing to shift thus cutting off oil supply and a chain reaction of engine failure resulted. All the more reason to know who is working on your engine and how serious it is they do things correctly especially with engines today of very tight specifications.
Back in the late 70's I spun a rod bearing on a Yamaha XS750 triple. I was at high (max) RPM when the bearing road over its other half. I found out the engine design had poor oil flow to that bearing and was not the only one to have such a failure. I had to replace the crankshaft because it got bent. I would guess the spun bearing was in a high friction state that caused it to spin but that is just a guess. The migration of the main #2 bearing must had to spin to shift lateral to the rear and eat away at the exposed shells? Elongation of the shell tang pocket on the cases is odd. As the bearing shells move to the rear the tang cavity slot on the cases had somewhere the case material had a place to flow to while it spun. The bearing tang must had be flatten so as not to protrude much after going around many times if not in one revolution. The main spinning cutting off the flow to the rod bearing. I know the main case bolts need to be new when building an engine. The Cadmium is a lubricant to achieve proper torque values.
I'm glad you're here to tell the story. When I got interested in flying way back when, I had no idea of the importance of metal and temperatures (and pressure).
After a lot of buildup and anticipation what caused the bearing to shift? Granted you did not want to point fingers but I would assume that the report would have confirmed if the factory torque settings were followed.
Actually Continental refused to point a finger. They did show the torque numbers. As others have posted here, it could be the torque or stretch of the bolt. Or could be a procedural issue if no torque plates were used or more than once cylinder was removed at a time. Or maybe it was a part that was defective. Lots of places to go. I defer to the smart people that responded.
I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions, it's always been Lycoming for me, however, this does not stop me from flying AC fitted with TCM engines. If i owned my own AC again, it would definitely be one fitted with a Lycoming. I believe fact has it that the failure rate for TCM is 1.15 per 1000 as opposed to 0.91 per 1000 for Lycoming. Cirrus AC should offer either the TCM or Lycoming for the SR22 units, they would probably sell a lot more! Happy Flying.
Regarding your comment about the Cirrus, the latest SR-20 engine (2017?), flipped from the 6 cylinder TCM engine to the 4 cylinder Lycoming. When they introduced it, they said it was due to the lower weight and lower cost associated with a 4 cylinder engine.
Learn something new every day.@@pfflying6275
You said recent cylinder work was done? I bet that explains it. Torque relieved through bolts leaving the bearing loose. Mike Busch has done many videos on this.
I love Mike's videos. Very educational.
How many cylinders were removed during this work? Were torque plates used in place of removed cylinders? Did anyone move the prop after multiple cylinders had been removed?
@@johnhoward2000yt All 6 cylinders. No torque plates.
great landing.
Be nice to know how old the engine is, how many hours has it logged, and when was the last annual
The engine was older, but great oil analysis and inspections. Recent top overhaul.
never seen a bearing do that, only way that could happen is it did not have the notch in the shell to locate in the seat. its held in place by the other half so could not spin. i think i would want to go back to the last person who had this apart.
The general aviation engine manufacturers need to produce engines that will operate 3,000 hours consistently. I see and read about engines that are using designs that were outdated 20 years ago. My four cylinder engine in my work van has 400,000 miles on it, over 500 hours of idle time, and gets 100,000 miles added on it every year. Not one issue since I bought the van in 2019. I've been to 47 states, driven through the Rockies several times (6,000+ ft msl), driven in 115 degrees in the southwest and -15 in the Midwest dozens of times. This is the standard that Continental and Lycoming need to build to for every single engine that they make.
I'd be the first in line to buy it. What I understand to be the problem is the metals used in aircraft engines (need to be light for weight reasons), combined with the fact they are air cooled (water cooled also adds weight, results in an engine that must be managed correctly, keeping cylinder head temps in a relatively narrow range and to keep Internal Cylinder pressures low (and we don't have a gauge for ICP). You get my vote to figure it out. I am not an expert, so confess to be repeating what others have told me.
I would like to hear details about the aircraft removal from the field. Who ya gonna call?
I've never worked on aircraft engines but of all the automotive engines our shop rebuilt - regardless of lack of maintenance, racing or just general abuse we never saw a bearing "shift". Seems the failure was described but the cause was not identified. That should be scary as it means it can happen again.
As has come out of the responses from various perspectives, it probably comes down to one or more of the following three causes. Improper torque/stretching of the through bolt after the top overhaul, improper process by removing more than one cylinder without torque plates, or a defective part of the engine.
Clearly a engine rebuild problem. Are they going to compensate you for your loss or is that between the insurance company and the engine remanufacturer?
So, at the end of the day, you did not communicate what the determined cars for the bearing moving was. Was it the shop that did your cylinder work? Was it improperly torqued so that pre-load on the main journal wasn’t correct? Was it a continental issue on original assembly? These are questions that we want to know
I think this sums it up. The owner is not comfortable allocating blame in a TH-cam video. But reading between the lines, it seems like a mechanic error to me.
@@banjo2019 He doesn’t have to say the name of the shop but I would really like to know if it was a factory issue or an independent mechanic issue and what the issue was. I’m not sure I would make the video knowing that people want to know that.
@@banjo2019 litigation in progress I suspect
@@dennisnbrown I guess the big picture question for us as pilots is whether or not some step we can take could have given an earlier warning of this trouble. The whole thing is a bit daunting. Random errors whether they are a mechanic error or just bad luck are a part of aviation. I get that. But we don’t have to accept every dice roll as being totally out of our control.
I used to overhaul Lyc donks so I’ve seen a failed bearing in an IGSO540 Lycoming same as this, so not uncommon.
As a pilot and mechanic I find this video did not answer why the bearing shifted... it was said that there was cylinder work which had been done on the aircraft previously....I would guess that is the reason the bearings had shifted perhaps because of improperly torqued through bolts or poor technique when removing cylinders but it would have been nice to have some more information.
As stated previously, the facts were presented, except for the torque values, as they probably created more questions than answered questions. Trying to summarize what has been written by experts and novices alike, the probable cause of the bearing shifting fell into one of three camps. Improper torque/stretch of the through bolt, improper process related to the lack of torque plates or the following of Continental procedures which limits the number of cylinders removed at ang given time, or finally, a part that became defective. What are your thoughts?
So, a very important component- a bearing- “shifted to the rear”. Very scary if you ask me. Did your research reveal if this is common with your engine? Other similar airplane engines?
Limited research, but got the sense that it is relatively rare. I defer to the engine mechanics that care to comment on that.
Can you please explain why you didn't pull the chute? Was it strictly a financial decision or was there more to it? Cirrus highly recommends the parachute is to be deployed in these type of situations, your decision making process would be valuable information....Thanks
I have answered this question so many times, I normally cut and paste the answer. It's an extremely important question that deserves an answer. What I learned and what I want all pilots to understand is that when confronted with an emergency, my brain (and I assume others will have the same experience), did not go through any kind of decision process. I am normally a compare/contrast decision maker. In this case, my brain tossed aside that very comfortable space I normally operate in and instead, put me into an execution mode. I hypothesize the brain recalled my engine out training from about 5 months earlier. Each step clearly came to me and my execution was relatively spot on. I found it difficult to make decisions for the next few hours too. It was so darn interesting (and comforting) to see the power of the brain to help us. The chute would've been an excellent choice, so I need to consider why my execution brain didn't go right to the chute. I know there are situations where the chute will have a worse outcome, but over farm fields, this was a pretty safe choice.to deploy the chute. Landing into the strong wind and a slightly soft field were key factors in the successful outcome. My point to all of us, is to study, train, and practice these things, because when the poop hits the fan, your decision making brain may not be there, but your execution brain will perform awesomely for you. We as pilots just need to make sure we can execute what we learned. Thanks for asking the question. Wishing you blue skies and safe skies.
@@pfflying6275 Thanks for taking the time to answer, very much appreciated! Same to you and hopefully you never have to face that type situation again!
I've watched this video in parts several times, but I seem to have missed the CAUSE of the failure. Why did the bearing slip forward? Was it the "torque issue", which is a shop created failure?
At the risk of over commenting on this video, everyone is wondering the same thing. Why the creator and take the time to put together such a nice video and literally not tell us anything other than it blew up and he landed it
@@dennisnbrown ...I watched this video 4 times (parts) just to see if the question was answered and I missed it. Based on some of the comments below, it seems many people think they got an answer. Thought I was losing my mind. LOL!!
But yes, good video except the main useful points were left out. What SPECIFICALLY caused this failure AND how is it PREVENTED in the future?
The cause was the bearing shifting over the oil feed. But of course your question is why the bearing shifted. Without adding my opinion, the two possible reasons I've seen in the comments are either an engine part defect, or maintenance error after removing and reinstalling cylinders.
@@pfflying6275 ....was the exact determination not made by either Continental or the other inspector you used? I appreciate your video, but it almost seems like you are intentionally withholding the most important information. We aren't asking you to name the shop that possibly made a mistake. We are asking for the likely cause and hopefully someone that can stop such a mistake in the future will learn from this video, saving a life.
Thanks @@johntyrone307. I am somewhat limited in what I can say for a couple of reasons. To address your question above, Continental was very careful not to place blame, but stick to the facts. The other shop agreed with the conclusion and as I understand it, did not point fingers either. Continental included breakaway torque values, which I've learned can be misinterpreted. Because of that, I left those off, as it would create more questions than answers. As you read the other comments here, which align with those I have talked with, there are two camps. Many believe it was due to an improper torque by the maintenance shop. Some have pointed the finger at a defective part. Still others have asked if the shop used torque plates and how many cylinders were removed at a given time. All relevant data points. In the end, my opinion is one of many and decided to not make myself the self-proclaimed expert.
Savvy Aviation has touched on the dangers of cylinder work. My understanding of his break down is that the through bolts on the crank that attaches to opposite cylinders must treated with care and a torque plate must be used before spinning the crank. Apparently the bearings can spin or shift easily when the engine is partially disassembled. Sounds like another milk toast version of not holding the mechanic/shop responsible.
So what did you mean by saying the cylinders were worked on 60 hrs before the failure? Where cylinders removed and replaced 60 hrs before the accident?
Yes.
@pfflying6275 well that's very well where the issue most likely happened. When the cylinders were removed if the mechanic did not reinstall the thru bolt nuts and torque them down while the cylinders were off the crankcase there is a high high chance the bearing moved at that point. They wouldn't of know it at the time and then reinstalled the new cylinders. About 50 hours later the bearing would have started to show itself as a problem or sooner
@@Airplanefish Exactly. As another commenter said, Mike Busch talks about this exact scenario. Imagine he was over the middle of Lake Michigan. 😳
It's hard for me to accept the "natural causes" explanation on this. I work in the automotive performance aftermarket industry, and see plenty of engine failures relating to oiling and bearing issues. That's a pretty weird way for a bearing to fail, I'm not following what forces would allow a properly installed bearing to move laterally like that. There really should be no lateral load to cause the bearing to move like that and drive it into the side of the crank where it can begin to eat itself and shift so far as to block the oil feed. The breakaway torque on that #2 main cap would have been interesting to include and compare to the others.
Regardless, looks like a pretty best case scenario of an engine out at low altitude. Good quick thinking, stick and rudder work, and a fair bit of luck/angels! Glad you're ok.
Thanks. I agree with your comments, especially with the angel thing. Just 30 minutes prior, I did the what if I lost an engine exercise. My daughter-in-law said it was my mom watching out for me.
Did you notice any CHT problems before the engine stopped?
No, and I watch temps and pressures all the time. If I remember correctly, CHT's were around 346.
A general comment. It’s amazing, given the technology of the majority of aviation engines powering GA aircraft, as old as most of the technology and designs are, running up to 75% continuous power, are running reliably without catastrophic failure. There are some that tout the superior technology found in automobile engines but fail to realize that they operate typically at significantly lower continuous power and RPM, although Rotax utilizes automobile technology and run their 912 100 HP engines at continuous 5100 - 5400 RPM.
Were there metal shavings in the last oil change prior?
Not visible metals, but analysis did show an increase. I was told they were consistent with break in metals however. I was told by a mechanic that the time between the shifted bearing and the failure was probably very quick and the oil change from 26 hours earlier was probably not going to show an issue.
Would it have cost less if you replaced the engine with a new engine instead of having your engine worked on, failed, and all the other incurred cost?
Yes. As mentioned elsewhere, there is a story behind the decision to work on the cylinders. Not enough space to discuss here, but we had good data to support the decision that was made and should've been a good financial move. Once the engine failed, the question was moot.
Bearing “ shift “ …? Never heard that term before - That’s a new one ! Odd
It was new to me as well.
Would an oil analysis have picked up a gradual increase in the similar metals found in bearing material?
I was told the issue would not have been so gradual, so at 26 hours before, probably not. Still I defer to others to weigh in on your question.
Thank you for the follow up answer.
I've never heard of bearing "creep" before, frightening to think a bearing cap can "walk" its way out of journal like that.
@@pfflying6275
So why did the baring move? What was the cause off this failure?
Thanks to an active group, we have a lot of smart people giving opinions. I've got mine, but out of respect for others that are connected with this incident, I am going to leave mine on the sideline. It appears to be one of two explanations.
Interesting
Just trying to make sure if there's something to look out for so this doesn't happen to us
Of the three opinions, two are things you can watch out for. Follow the manuracturer's process for a multi-cylinder overhaul. That usually means no more than one cylinder off at a time. And if you do, then probably use torque plates. Each manufacturer may have a different process. The other opinion expressed by the comments was an incorrect torque/stretch of the through bolt. I watched a Mike Bush video on how the bolts need to be torqued. If there is a problem with the engine, not sure how an owner can know that in advance. Hope this helps.
@pfflying6275 thank you. Your dedication to making these videos is definitely much appreciated.
Doing my night rating in 1970, I was told these engines were designed only to quit in daylight. After a great aviation career I can say I never had an engine failure. Day or night.
I missed that one in training. ;-)
@@pfflying6275 just young and gullibleI guess. Started flying at 16 and of course indistructable.
Another Continental 6 cylinder coming a part. I've always seen this problem as a oil starvation problem.
That was the fastest ending emergency I’ve ever heard. Mayday I’ve landed. 😂. Did you not pull the chute because of your altitude?
I was trying to keep the video to 10 minutes or less. The full audio was a minute and a half. I was a bit concerned it would sound crappy, but decided brevity was the most important thing.
As for the chute decision, go back to the first video (there was a link provided). My brain just kicked in and replayed my training. I need to remind myself the chute is a valid option. I don't recall making any decisions during that time period. Total execution mode. It worked in this case. The chute would've worked as well.
Glad you decided to use you piloting skill and execute an emergency landing. Saved the aircraft. I applaud you for that decision
. . . but I didn't learn anything!!!
As a non pilot but general gearhead it just seems odd to me why aircraft continue to use these prehistoric engine designs. At least they seem very low tech. Why has the industry not transitioned to more modern engine designs?
Nice to have plenty of places to land
Very lucky indeed. Another 10 minutes or so and I would be over Cleveland.
Maybe I missed something here - WHY did the bearing move to the rear?
There are three opinions from the viewers. Defective part, wrong torque/stretch after top overhaul, or wrong process if shop didn't use torque plates and removed more than one cylinder at a time.
same type of plane crashed 4 days ago in australia ???
Looked similar to a Kia GDI engine experience.
Very happy that you made it to the ground without cashing in your chips and destroying your plane. The motors are the weakest link in a Cirrus. Old engine technology in a modern plane. I think it's a "Chinese" thing...
i saw you flying down the coast of fort Lauderdale 3 days ago lol
Wish that were true. Not that Chicago isn't a great place, but love the Florida coast.
LOL. In watching the B-Roll PFD/MFD footage, I wondered how you had the world's only NXi G3.....smh.
I have always said that pilots hear and see the world differently. I totally missed the NXI when I grabbed that footage. That was from a G6 I fly when mine is not available. GREAT CATCH!. You made me smile.
@@pfflying6275 Well, you're totally right! Funny enough, while listening to you narrate (nice work, by the way), I found myself doing an instrument scan. And like most pilots, we love to glance over and look at power settings, TAS, winds, and CHTs. My mind was thinking G3 with Perspective, but eyes were seeing Perspective +. Great video! We all benefit from these!!!
Thanks for the follow up video
It’s high time with the amount of money someone would spend on an airplane like that that they would install engines that were more reliable, tighter, tolerance, and possibly even water cooled. I know these things can be a weight issue, but this day and age with the electronics and having a magneto back up, you could have a much more cost efficient engine and one that is cheaper to repair. Add to that being able to run Mogas. The FAA needs to approve engines other than Continental or Lycoming.
When I think of Lycoming IO-360's or O-360's, they seem to be pretty bullet proof (my sense and not sure if that is backed up by real data). So many low horsepower engines seem to stand the test of time. Not as confident that is true with the big bore engines. We as pilots try to manage temps, pressures, and power to mitigate issues, but sometimes things go south. Your point is reasonable, but it hasn't happened. Is it cost to develop and certify a new engine that is the inhibitor, or something else? Would be interested in hearing from mechanics that know this space to comment on that.
@@pfflying6275 I’m looking at it from the standpoint of say, an automobile engine. They have stood the test of time and they are made a lot cheaper and they last pretty good if they are taken care of. They use synthetic oils that are thinner, their tolerances are a lot tighter and a lot of their computer controlled systems today keep them at peak efficiency if maintenance is kept up. They could make one design for an aircraft, and it may have to be water cooled and solid State magnetos. They have used water cooled back in World War I and it would just seem a lot more economical for the manufacture, as well as the owner when it comes time to rebuild, replace or upgrade these type of engines. if you think about the Subaru or the Volkswagen engine with the opposing four removable jugs, they didn’t last too long. They were air cooled, and they just could not stand the test of time. Just saying. One other thing, diamond does make a diesel engine version for their airplanes.
Did Cirrus make good on any of this?
Tom, Nothing for Cirrus to make good on. They weren't even involved in the discussion. 11 year old plane. Insurance covered what was appropriate.
I'm surprised that insurance would cover an incident caused by a mechanical failure.
I'm comparing it to auto insurance, so maybe its completely different for aircraft.
It is different. The standard thinking is the insurance will cover everything that happens after the engine failure. I prefer to keep the specific financials private at this time. Thanks for your comment.
When Kia came out with the 100,000-mile warranty I thought it was a good thing but later on in life I understood that damn car needed that
Why did they take the airplane apart?
Because there was a 2.5 hour drive to the repair facility and the airplane is too wide to travel on any road, including the highway. You notice they also had to tilt the fuselage because the horizontal stab is also too wide. Crazy.
Wow, that's too bad. I always hate to see an airplane dismantled.@@pfflying6275
⚠️What I take from this engines can fail at any time no matter how well maintained they are.
Many Power pilots seem to be unprepared for when that noisy fan stops (you were obviously well prepared so well done !)
I fly power planes & gliders.
So generally
It doesn't phase me if an engine stops. I practice engine off approaches every month and field selection exercises.
There are so many fatalities after engine failure and it is absolutely unnecessary and waste of life.
Power pilots shouldn't be startled when that noisy fan upfront stops.
It is going to happen to you sooner or later so be prepared. I urge you to get more engine failure training or go on a gliding course.
We glider pilots have to get the circuit right 1st time every time, there is no going round !
Cpt Sully (glider pilot) was a fine example of how to glide a jet plane onto the Hudson River
I keep promising myself to get some glider training. I know it would be good for me. Kind of like getting my tailwheel endorsement to remind me what those pedals are for. You've motivated me to take that step..
6:14 The numbers, Mason…what do they mean?
So no mention of the actual cost or insuramce payout.
As the saying goes, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. Costs vary from insurance company to insurance company and the numbers can change over time. Maintenance costs vary from shop to shop. And of course the details for each occurrence are relatively unique. And as it involves third parties, it is not my place to share info that might be considered confidential. Reasonable request on your part, and appreciate your question.
@pfflying6275 Spun bearings have been causing catastrophic engine failures forever. One wonders why this hasn't been solved. I rode behind a Lyc. 0 540 for some time in a Commanche. I flew 30 years in GA and an airline and never had an engine failure from Cubs to Lockheed L1011 widebody. I get the impression the Co. 550s are not reliable enough.
@@pfflying6275 this event happened to you. I’m going to guess that there are lawsuits involved currently and you’ve been told not to say anything
I wish you would have had your camera on for the emergency landing.
I was running a bit late that day, so the camera was on the back seat. Normally, it would have been recording.