My automotive teacher got his start in the 1960s, and talked about the changes in the industry over the years. He said that if you chose someone to do auto repair, you did not want a guy who read the manual, because that means he hasn't done very much for very long. Then he said in the 1970s, you didn't want anyone who does not read the manual first, they are sure to get it wrong. Only a fool thinks they have it all memorized. He was very serious about doing things by the book. The only non-OEM parts he regularly bought were oils, oil filters, and batteries.
That's the weird part. Why do people care that commenters are dumb? When someone makes some claim that they can do "x", go to their page. When they have zero deleted videos, ignore that person forever. Some claim they have skills without video proof? Nope. You are ON TH-cam. There is zero reason you cannot whip up a video if you are an expert at some thing. The end. Hope that helps everyone.
Seeing the difference between those two remnants is a great illustration of just how randomly the core shifts in casting . Great explanation of the why and how of ls sleeve removal , just goes to show , sometimes boring is interesting.
I'm 62, when I was a kid my dad made me help him work on large industrial machinery repairs. One place had a bad bearing. This was a 4 inch shaft, the bearing was huge, and frozen. They broke the bearing off the shaft leaving the inner race with no way to grip it, the entire plant was down and all their work was being trucked daily to another plant, this went on for days. I had gotten my license a few months prior and so I snuck out one night with a Dremel tool, dry ice and a mallet. I went in and I used the dremel to grind lines on the race like a hand grenade. Then packed it with dry ice and went to 7-11. An hour later I came back and WACKED that race with a mallet. It shattered and fell to the floor. The next day my dad showed up, I was already there, he came in with a new type of puller and I said, Oh, I got it off there :) He was mad lol.
Very pertinent and well explained video Daniel!. Core shift is a problem we see more prevalent in a number of different manufacturers blocks. A lot of aluminium blocks that have plasma coated bores that are worn or damaged needing sleeves uncovers just how bad the coreshift actually is.
Great Video as always… Folks don’t really understand what core shift is. In my case: I was considering buying a 4.1 Buick V6 Stage 2 block, but it didn’t have a sonic test sheet included, so I had an engine shop in Charlotte Michigan do a sonic test before I bought it to make sure it had enough meat on the thrust side to handle the 1300 HP twin turbo build I had planned.
I've squeeze cast bedplates, robot sticks inserts in die closes aluminum is shot with 35000 psi metal pressure, those come out easy, but the ribbed sleeve cast into aluminum block no way Hose...It's Cormbread always 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Very interesting. I had no idea GM cast the liners in place. Sure hope they have some good QC, or the bores could really end up a mess from casting shift. Wonder how many the end up scrapping. Thanks for the good video!
Great video. I don't know if you're familiar with Nick's Garage, anyway last Friday Night Nick and his crew posted video about a factory 440 Mopar RB engine tare down, And one of the rist pins backed out and ware a groove in the cylinder. They had to beat the piston out and I immediately noticed a crack at the top of the cylinder wall. I asked Nick if it could be sleeved, he said yes. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
Easily pressed out sleeves are something you find in heavy diesels. It is probably because the manufacturer knows such engines will be rebuilt. The LS engine is not then only place you'll find aluminum cast over sleeves. Toyota did this since about the 2010s and they called them spiny sleeves. Toyota sells +.25mm pistons, but finished new short blocks sell for so little from Toyota, many choose that instead. A 4 cylinder short block can be ordered and delivered quickly. You send your head to the local machinist and it is probably back at the same time as the OEM Toyota short block. With so many busy machine shops, many have complained about how long they wait for the crank to be polished, matched bearings to be ordered, and cylinders to be bored+honed. Many of the latest iron sleeve aluminum blocks have as little iron as they can get away with. The OEM won't sell more than a +.25mm piston, and often you won't find aftermarket pistons bigger than +.5mm.
An interesting visual for folks would be showing how offset the average 4.065 bore ls3 sleeve is in the aluminum block. They are all over the place on sleeve thickness
I don't know if you've done any Harley Davidson cylinders but they are rough cast outside before being cast in place. On an 883 Sportster, there is almost 3/4" of cast iron to bore out, just doing an 883 to 1200 needs 0.496" bore increase. I'm guessing the grooving is to increase surface area as well as locking in place? I'm one of the people who asked about pulling sleeves although I did mention about cast in place being the reason for boring.
I put a cam & cam bearings in my wore out 6.0 (can't afford to do it right) so couldn't take block to shop for prep, I did put new rod bolts in, cleaned all the crap off pistons. It had around 55b oil pressure cold then about 50 before, Which is kind of surprising for over 250,000 miles I would think. But when started it to see if it will run pre-tune. It's 35 then 30. I wondering if I jacked the oil pump O-ring, or is it because I got Is rid of all the carbon build up? The cam bearings all lined up perfectly. Besides I should have hone it and got new rings, what do you think?
I know this is going to sound super weird, but have you ever considered doing audio books? Like being the voice IN audio books? I can think of at least a dozen American authors works that you would be perfect for, military based books especially, I think you got just the right amount of American grit in your tone to pull off some great story telling. Just a thought (as strange as I know it sounds).
Regarding pressed sleeves, I often heat across bearing races with torches or by laying a bead of weld to contract them to loosen them in the bore. Why does this seem to not be used to aid in pressing sleeves out. What about freezing the sleeves.
Are all aluminum 6.0 LS blocks the same regardless of the engine code? For instance I have a hard to find L77 in my Chevrolet Caprice PPV. Are my sleeves similar to what you've shown?
When you say, "Core Shift", you mean the aluminum block expands/contracts enough to cause this irregular wear? I'd have never thought they'd use any material that would allow that kinda of expansion but then again, I'm not an engineer where money is the bottom line. Back in the older iron motors, did they have much shift or just less? peace
why don't they screw em in? Hi-Po I mean. I block doesn't look too difficult to thread up nor do the barrels . . . actually I am not sure why they don't just use aluminum cylinders then use like a Nikisil coating or something? I know I have beat the tar out of every single Aluminum sleeved racebike or streetbike I've owned it just said "thank you sir may I have another" or "that's all you got? no jokes, they're taking 1000CC and getting 1000 streetable HP out of them with boost . . 1hp per CC not CI . . that's just ruthless, and they run the pistons right onto the aluminum sleeves conventionally cooled, as the pistons rings break in the electroplated cylinder walls coated with nikisil transform to a very slick and durable surface.. which means you now have the heat conductivity of aluminum which is superior to steel, and the slickness of ceramic coating .. givin the added heat dissipation and smoothness of the walls with increased durability its a superior setup it would seem? not only that but givin the differences of heat dissipation or expansion and contraction between steel and aluminum it allows for superior tolerances to be used with far m ore accuracy, or dependability if you will.. just wondering why they don't, must be a reason, you can run hi compression, boost whatever with nikisil I am wondering of maybe its not suitable with nitro methane? always wondered that, nikisil is used heavily if not exclusively in motorcycle racing and street bikes and break in is simple a few 4-5 strong heat cycles done deal, maybe that's it, they do need to be broken in as part of the nikisil process, the coatings on the piston rings react with the nikisil coating to create a bond, I give my bikes, oh 100 miles of hard heat cycling for street, an hour for race.. and I know the factory gives an initial break in as well for those who forget... you are a good teacher and your subject matter is always interesting! TY . . .
great video as usual . i would love to see a commenter actually pull out a liner without ruining the block.
Yup
The commenter, was probably like me. Very little knowledge of the LS engine. That's, why I watch Powell Machine. Ford guy, here.
My automotive teacher got his start in the 1960s, and talked about the changes in the industry over the years.
He said that if you chose someone to do auto repair, you did not want a guy who read the manual, because that means he hasn't done very much for very long.
Then he said in the 1970s, you didn't want anyone who does not read the manual first, they are sure to get it wrong. Only a fool thinks they have it all memorized.
He was very serious about doing things by the book. The only non-OEM parts he regularly bought were oils, oil filters, and batteries.
That's the weird part. Why do people care that commenters are dumb? When someone makes some claim that they can do "x", go to their page. When they have zero deleted videos, ignore that person forever. Some claim they have skills without video proof? Nope. You are ON TH-cam. There is zero reason you cannot whip up a video if you are an expert at some thing. The end. Hope that helps everyone.
@@eriklarson9137 Metalshaper rebuilds Jeeps. He gets critics from the comments section. He just tells them to show their videos of restored Jeeps.
Seeing the difference between those two remnants is a great illustration of just how randomly the core shifts in casting . Great explanation of the why and how of ls sleeve removal , just goes to show , sometimes boring is interesting.
Ty, we appreciate you!
Appreciate you sending out your experience. It means a lot.
Absolutely
I'm 62, when I was a kid my dad made me help him work on large industrial machinery repairs. One place had a bad bearing. This was a 4 inch shaft, the bearing was huge, and frozen. They broke the bearing off the shaft leaving the inner race with no way to grip it, the entire plant was down and all their work was being trucked daily to another plant, this went on for days.
I had gotten my license a few months prior and so I snuck out one night with a Dremel tool, dry ice and a mallet. I went in and I used the dremel to grind lines on the race like a hand grenade. Then packed it with dry ice and went to 7-11. An hour later I came back and WACKED that race with a mallet. It shattered and fell to the floor.
The next day my dad showed up, I was already there, he came in with a new type of puller and I said, Oh, I got it off there :)
He was mad lol.
Good hob!
Very pertinent and well explained video Daniel!.
Core shift is a problem we see more prevalent in a number of different manufacturers blocks.
A lot of aluminium blocks that have plasma coated bores that are worn or damaged needing sleeves uncovers just how bad the coreshift actually is.
Absolutely
I think this is a reason that when Porsche guys need a rebuild, they put a new plating on the cylinders, instead of Darton sleeves.
Great Video as always…
Folks don’t really understand what core shift is.
In my case:
I was considering buying a 4.1 Buick V6 Stage 2 block, but it didn’t have a sonic test sheet included, so I had an engine shop in Charlotte Michigan do a sonic test before I bought it to make sure it had enough meat on the thrust side to handle the 1300 HP twin turbo build I had planned.
Yep, that is definitely a must do test
Nice little tech tidbit. I did not know they cast the block around the sleeves.
Tyvm!
Pleasure to watch and free education so perfect kind of video. I am not a car guy but am interested in engineering type stuff
Ty!
Great explanation! Very clear.
Glad it was helpful!
LS7 block is the only GEN4 with pressed in sleeves
Awesome information. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I've squeeze cast bedplates, robot sticks inserts in die closes aluminum is shot with 35000 psi metal pressure, those come out easy, but the ribbed sleeve cast into aluminum block no way Hose...It's Cormbread always 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Lol
When the time comes, i would love to have you guys sleeve a 5.3 block for me. thanks for all the great content.
You got it!
are 5.7 blocks getting difficult to find?
@hornet340 yeah, but there all gen 3, you want a gen4
are gen4 harder to source?
Great explanation thank you Daniel
My pleasure!
Sometimes you could say “today was exciting”
other times you could say “today was just boring”
Lol
Always learning something! Thank you!
A video about the aluminum block ls cam bearings moving around some as the block takes a set with heat cycles might be good stuff
Very interesting. I had no idea GM cast the liners in place. Sure hope they have some good QC, or the bores could really end up a mess from casting shift. Wonder how many the end up scrapping. Thanks for the good video!
Great video. I don't know if you're familiar with Nick's Garage, anyway last Friday Night Nick and his crew posted video about a factory 440 Mopar RB engine tare down, And one of the rist pins backed out and ware a groove in the cylinder. They had to beat the piston out and I immediately noticed a crack at the top of the cylinder wall. I asked Nick if it could be sleeved, he said yes. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
Yeah, that happened often
Interesting and informational, as always.
Glad you think so!
I had no idea about this. Very interesting.
Glad it helped
Easily pressed out sleeves are something you find in heavy diesels. It is probably because the manufacturer knows such engines will be rebuilt.
The LS engine is not then only place you'll find aluminum cast over sleeves. Toyota did this since about the 2010s and they called them spiny sleeves. Toyota sells +.25mm pistons, but finished new short blocks sell for so little from Toyota, many choose that instead. A 4 cylinder short block can be ordered and delivered quickly. You send your head to the local machinist and it is probably back at the same time as the OEM Toyota short block. With so many busy machine shops, many have complained about how long they wait for the crank to be polished, matched bearings to be ordered, and cylinders to be bored+honed.
Many of the latest iron sleeve aluminum blocks have as little iron as they can get away with. The OEM won't sell more than a +.25mm piston, and often you won't find aftermarket pistons bigger than +.5mm.
Thank you for sharing great video
Thanks for visiting
Some of the eccentric is the centering fingers on the boring bar if it's an older machine like a kwikway or similar
Definitely not
@powellmachineinc3179 musta just been the particular machines I was using, for the Aluminum CanAm 496" engines I was doing in the 70s
Or it coulda been those Stage V Keith Black blocks I was doing about the same time....
This a great info. Would know which style of sleeve conducts the heat into the aluminium of the block beter - "cast in" or "pressed in" type?
Great information
Glad it was helpful!
An interesting visual for folks would be showing how offset the average 4.065 bore ls3 sleeve is in the aluminum block. They are all over the place on sleeve thickness
Great explanation! saludos from mexico
Thanks for watching!
I don't know if you've done any Harley Davidson cylinders but they are rough cast outside before being cast in place.
On an 883 Sportster, there is almost 3/4" of cast iron to bore out, just doing an 883 to 1200 needs 0.496" bore increase.
I'm guessing the grooving is to increase surface area as well as locking in place?
I'm one of the people who asked about pulling sleeves although I did mention about cast in place being the reason for boring.
Yeah, have done a lot of harley stuff
interesting. Thanks
You bet!
I put a cam & cam bearings in my wore out 6.0 (can't afford to do it right) so couldn't take block to shop for prep, I did put new rod bolts in, cleaned all the crap off pistons. It had around 55b oil pressure cold then about 50 before, Which is kind of surprising for over 250,000 miles I would think. But when started it to see if it will run pre-tune. It's 35 then 30. I wondering if I jacked the oil pump O-ring, or is it because I got Is rid of all the carbon build up? The cam bearings all lined up perfectly. Besides I should have hone it and got new rings, what do you think?
Bearing clearance is excessive
If you can't afford to do it correctly the first time, how will you be able to afford it the 2nd time?
Thanls
Yes,the Gen 3 Chevrolet LS1 V8 bore liners are cast into place.!
Have you ever had a block with so much core shift that when it finally cleaned up it was too big for a sleeve?
Impossible as the factory sleeve isn't thick enough for that to happen
I know this is going to sound super weird, but have you ever considered doing audio books? Like being the voice IN audio books? I can think of at least a dozen American authors works that you would be perfect for, military based books especially, I think you got just the right amount of American grit in your tone to pull off some great story telling. Just a thought (as strange as I know it sounds).
I wouldn't know where to start?
Also, do you know how thick the aluminium is between the sleeve and the water jacket?
Awesome video, not boring at all. Lol😀
Glad you enjoyed it
I want to put a crate engine in my 57 Chevy. I want to make 350 to 400 horse power. Which motor should I buy? Thanks!
A gen 4 5.3 and a cam, headers will do that with ease
@@powellmachineinc Thank you!
Regarding pressed sleeves, I often heat across bearing races with torches or by laying a bead of weld to contract them to loosen them in the bore. Why does this seem to not be used to aid in pressing sleeves out. What about freezing the sleeves.
So interesting
Ty
So, just for clarification for me, any LS block can be desleeved and taken to "LS7" 4.125" sleeves?
Yep
Is it costly to sleeve a stock block verses a aftermarket one?
@@KS-dg5zh yep, it's probably double to do a stock block
Would you say it's pretty safe to bore an aluminum 5.3 out to 3.898/5.7L? Were they a bit more sloppy with the 5.3's vs the 5.7?
Yes,
Are all aluminum 6.0 LS blocks the same regardless of the engine code? For instance I have a hard to find L77 in my Chevrolet Caprice PPV. Are my sleeves similar to what you've shown?
I think if you gave a phone call or email to cylinder liner companies, they could tell you if they are the same or different.
I would like to know what the total cost of the sleeve job?
All block work ready to assemble with studs and sleeves is 3500-4000
Do you use any loctite when installing sleeves? Or just the press fit
Just a light press, the cylinder head has it trapped, there's no where to go
When you say, "Core Shift", you mean the aluminum block expands/contracts enough to cause this irregular wear? I'd have
never thought they'd use any material that would allow that kinda of expansion but then again, I'm not an engineer where
money is the bottom line. Back in the older iron motors, did they have much shift or just less? peace
Ah yes, the YT certified group, the highest ranked self-proclaimed experts of all time. 😂
💯
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 TRUMP
Your welcome
yep try to pull that sleeve out would end in tears ,
Definitely
Were you in the Army? If not, I met your twin in Germany in 1998-2001.
Unfortunately no, they wouldn't take me
@@powellmachineinc Well, your twin, like you, is a good man. Poured from the same mold.
So if your machine shop says "We just knock them out with an air chisel" RUN in the opposite direction.
Pretty much
👍👍😎🇺🇲
Ty
why don't they screw em in? Hi-Po I mean. I block doesn't look too difficult to thread up nor do the barrels . . . actually I am not sure why they don't just use aluminum cylinders then use like a Nikisil coating or something? I know I have beat the tar out of every single Aluminum sleeved racebike or streetbike I've owned it just said "thank you sir may I have another" or "that's all you got? no jokes, they're taking 1000CC and getting 1000 streetable HP out of them with boost . . 1hp per CC not CI . .
that's just ruthless, and they run the pistons right onto the aluminum sleeves conventionally cooled, as the pistons rings break in the electroplated cylinder walls coated with nikisil transform to a very slick and durable surface.. which means you now have the heat conductivity of aluminum which is superior to steel, and the slickness of ceramic coating .. givin the added heat dissipation and smoothness of the walls with increased durability its a superior setup it would seem? not only that but givin the differences of heat dissipation or expansion and contraction between steel and aluminum it allows for superior tolerances to be used with far m ore accuracy, or dependability if you will..
just wondering why they don't, must be a reason, you can run hi compression, boost whatever with nikisil I am wondering of maybe its not suitable with nitro methane? always wondered that, nikisil is used heavily if not exclusively in motorcycle racing and street bikes and break in is simple a few 4-5 strong heat cycles done deal, maybe that's it, they do need to be broken in as part of the nikisil process, the coatings on the piston rings react with the nikisil coating to create a bond, I give my bikes, oh 100 miles of hard heat cycling for street, an hour for race.. and I know the factory gives an initial break in as well for those who forget...
you are a good teacher and your subject matter is always interesting! TY . . .
I cant think of a good reason not to bore them out, this isn't a diesel truck engine.
Sounds like a boring job, no way you're gonna weld-shrink that one out of there, what a horrible idea, big boys have been using wet liners forever.
Yep
🙄 P r o m o s m
The commenters must of never done the job themselves,otherwise they would of known they were ribbed for extra pleasure😂ThankQ.TkEZ>UK
💯
You will be making videos forever if you keep answering the trolls 🧌. Keep moving forward, that's how you get somewhere.
It's about correcting false information posted! Be alot easier if people didn't know 100% about something to not comment.
Exactly!!!!