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I'm glad that they didn't go with the fire while moving weapon. The pressure of the constant dodging, moving and stoping to attack of the game is what keeps me on the edge of my seat on every run.
It's good to see yeah, as is said afterwards - that's how collaboration should be, messy or otherwise it's what probably gets the team to the best decision in the end.
That's the benefit of a close-knit team. Hard for someone to get a swell head and command everyone to do it their way when every person and their opinion is essential.
I'm glad they don't seem to get caught up in the weeds. The "democratic approach" to problem solving isn't always efficient -- sometimes someone in charge just needs to set the direction and go with it. But in the long run, considering the input from the team is generally the best option for turning out a well-developed product.
I always feel that's the way to go with a collab process. It's like with my band that I'm the frontman of. We'll say critical things about a song we're making and our diagreements, but we've made it a point to never just be like, "this thing sucks". You gotta be civil about it and actually articulate what you don't like and why that is, then how to improve it. Flat out arguing with no basis for it can just be toxic and that I feel, has no place in a creative environment. Also, sometimes you gotta be big enough to admit your idea for a part not might not be as strong someone else's, then confidently say "you know what? You're right! That's a great idea. Let's put that in there!". That's not weakness, that's strength and you're combining your strength together to make something better. It's all part of the fun.
@@Theyungcity23 Yes, individual artists do it all the time, because it's their main job - to make art and to sell it. Supergiant's main job is to make games. Also, it's not so easy to make an artbook. First, they will need to make a research to find all the pictures they created during their 10+ years of development. Then they will need to choose the most interesting ones, then write commentary, then edit commentary, then make a layout of a book - and making a layout of an artbook is quite a task, they will need to hire a professional to do it right - then they will have to make additional art to make the design of a book. Then they will have to look for a printing house and work with all the typographical stuff I don't even know about. I think that it will take two or three months of work for at least two people, who I suspect will be Jen Zee (an artist who was with the studio from the beginning) and Greg Kasavin (a writer who also as I think puts together all the content as opposed to mechanics). They are key figures in the development. Making a book will halt Hades development for months - if that's not a picture of limited resources, I don't know what is.
@@Toporshik and Jen Zee their artist is an artist whose main job is to sell and create art. Kim Jung Gi is an artist. His team does all of that for him. They just take his sketches and they put them in the book. Japanese hentai artists buy printers and they sell their art for a few bucks here and there. It's not a giant bureaucratic process. It's the artist and the publisher.
@@Theyungcity23 Дмитрий Иваненко covered a lot of good points already. Jen Zee is an artist who's job is to create art for the games themselves. Say she is able to commit fulltime to creating an artbook, there would still need to be a writer, editor, graphic designer, making deals with publishing companies, finding interested publishing companies to begin with, figuring out the logistics of what paper to use and shipping and retailing the books.... and all of these of course take time, effort and money that Supergiant could be using to creating more games. Sure, there is always the option of just compiling some sketches and art in inDesign and then releasing it as an e-book with some quotes here and there, and that way shipping is a non-issue (though this takes time and effort allocated away from the game too). But if we're looking at physical, industry-quality artbooks that features good insight and commentary into the making of these games, it's going to take time and money and a dedicated team. Like you said, Kim Jung Gi has a team, and if it takes a team to create an artbook for one person, it's going to take a (probably larger) team to create an artbook for a game studio. And yeah, individual artists can print their own art, but again this isn't a viable option if we're expecting more than a zine of Supergiant art. So I get where you're coming from, but this isn't as simple as just the artist and the publisher, which in of itself is a process.
Anyone else rewatching the doc after buying Hades 2 in early access? Absolutely loving the game and glad to be part of the early access period this time so I can provide feedback. Even as early access though it's way more polished than some final V1 from major studios like EA, CD Projekt Red, etc. This game came out day 1 in a really good state that feels good to play.
The conversation around the floating for the gun is SO real. I feel like I've had that exact meeting at work 100 times. It always feels like you are getting nowhere and frustrating each other but, in reality, they are for the best and you're glad you had a bit of an argument to arrive at a better conclusion. Really enjoying this series. Fantastic work! I did find it odd, how we spent a lot of time on update #2 and jumped right to the end of update #3. Was this because not much for filmed for the process of updated #3, or because of how hectic update #2 was or was it less interesting from the standpoint of having just watched the update #2 stuff? Curious. Sad to watch someone like Camilo leaving, it's always tough when you had such a tight studio but if a person feels like they have to move on then it's for the best.. Wish him the best! Anyway, I'm off to play more Hades, because I've not put as much time into it as I want. Can't wait for more on the series and the game.
Every gamer should watch this documentary to understand why no, fixing game features is not as simple as flipping a switch, and no, saying "this gun is shit" is not interesting or helping. Either wait for fixes or explain the problems in detail.
Actually saying "this gun is shit" is helping. The developers just need to know what players don't like. It's their job to figure out a solution, they are the experts. Of course, usually, when someone says something like "this gun is shit", they haven't thought about it much, but for a developer all they need to know is what players dislike, find boring or is just not as interesting as other mechanics in the game.
Yeah, Crowbar is correct. When you're creating content for people who aren't capable of critical analysis, you have to accept such poor feedback because that's the metric you've set up for yourself. The game industry is a weird land of codependent abusive relationships.
@David Lad Actually supergiant themselves say the exact opposite of what you just said. In their discord. They have a "feedback" channel, where they specifically say "we will figure out the solution".
@David Lad well, your anecdotal evidence vs. mine. Everyones different, blablabla. I personally think simply knowing what people dislike is more than enough, I don't want them to explain why, they don't know the craft, the artform, whatever they say might be completely false and the true reason why they dislike something might be something completely different. The only certain truth is, that they dislike what they are talking about.
Nice! It gives me hope for the future of my favorite hobby that fellow fans of these guys are making their own games. There's so much thought and love in everything they make. I wish you the same dedication!
So my best friend just gifted me this game because I'm out of work with a broken finger and I have to say this is slowly becoming my favorite indie game of all time. It's so good and the art and story so far is amazing.
Yeah, they are really shooting themselves in the foot with this exclusivity nonsense. My backlog is full of games I haven't gotten around to and installing yet another store is something I will do if the game seems worth it. But even games that I am very much looking forward to, like Metro Exodus, I feel like I can just wait a year or two and play them when they are released on Steam or GoG. It's not so much minding buying things from Epic, it's having things in more places. Also, as far as I understand Epic has an always online requirement and that is never acceptable for any single-player title.
This is an amazing resource for anyone doing game dev or aspiring to do so. I like that the team was using Twitch as a real-time feedback channel, getting incredibly rich data by just observing people using their product. Darren Korb is a beast for doing all the audio and voice over. Greg keeping the lore and game world consistent is part of why Supergiant games feel so well designed.
Holy crap I'm so blown away by this. So many huge studios would never show this kind of content. The process at work! It's amazing. I love watching them make all their decisions and really working to figure this stuff out. Fighting the blank page. GOD so good! Thank you guys for making this.
This is seriously some of the best insight I've seen into what that development process looks like. The section with the gun is prime stuff. I know Jeremy is there often, but it seems like the Supergiant folks are also really comfortable keeping y'all in the loop, which is really nice. I feel like sometimes with these embedded things, the subjects have to learn how to be on camera and talk about stuff, but they're already pros.
I bought the game but haven't played it. I love the developers, I admire the artist Jen Zee, and I really want to see a Switch release (hence supporting the game now for that hopefully down the road).
I’d love to see more of what goes on in the recording studio (music, voiceovers)! Logan Cunningham is the main voice of all their games so far and I’d love to see some of his insight.
The floating thing is interesting because it shows the chasm between a developer who is looking for microscopic details versus a general gamer who can more easily zoom out and see the bigger picture. I have to admit, in all my time playing the game I’ve never considered Zag to be floating and just put down the momentary hover to the power of his attack.
Just got into this game after years of holding back. Thank god I did. And this Doc made me love it even more. I really love this game and these people. They did great as always.
Me too! Apex Legends would've had SO much hate from gamers for being just another band wagon BR game, but they never gave it the chance. Just, hey we made a new game, go play it right now, it's free. It was a stroke of marketing genius, honestly.
Thank you for showing work being done (and thanks for supergiant for being open to you too). Labor has been slowly erased from entertaiment. It's a form of alienation in some senses. Due to the pressure of having to be fun, work is relegated to, at most, a montage sequence. Or a transition filler. In the Friends tv series, people don't work on camera. Meanwhile, work dominates more and more of our waking hours and companies become more and more black boxes, with corporate secrets and IPs to maintain. To see a small part of the work process of figuring out how to put a gun in the game is very interesting and sets the piece apart from mainstream. I just wanted to point out how uncommon that is right now, we don't realize it's happening.
Is it strange that I actually want to do video game development after watching this? I know it’s not always fun and this release schedule their on it stressful - but this is so satisfying to just watch. I can imagine it is even more when you’re in the midst of it
Fascinating stuff as always. Supergiant is far and away one of the best developers going, but I just don't do early access. It's great to be able to see the game evolve in (near) real-time without having to burn myself out on a work in-progress. Keep up the great work!
Double thumbs up for this documentary and how professional everything is! And even though everything is so professional the whole thing seems so relaxed and fun! Keep it up Noclip and Supergiant! Boom Curls updating.
Since Double Fine Adventure ended, I feel like a gap in ongoing video game documentary series had yet to be filled but I absolutely feel like, after this great episode, this series is going to pick up the ball and run with it. Great work to you and your team, Danny as always and looking forward to seeing more!
I’m still pretty bad with Exagryph, but I think stand-in-place-and-fire was the right move, the run and gun seemed so strong as to be overpowered. I think the stand-in-place gives it a good sense of power, and a creative restriction to have to work around. Years later and I’m lovin these documentaries
Game development seems so fun but at the same time very stressful. I really want a job like this but I can't code at all, my mind just doesn't work like that. Making sound effects and voice overs is so appealing to me, I just have no idea how to get started with that.
Now, I don't work in audio but I am a game dev, and if you're interested in a random strangers tip, it would be to not bother with getting a game dev education and instead just make stuff for people in modding communities and build a portfolio. Portfolio and experience > education.
It greatly depends on the education though. Some schools helps you build and improve your portfolio while providing professional network, and, in France at least, Network matters a lot @@toboldlysplitinfinitives6518
it will be challenging to get into this career, but look at middleware programs like Wwise, it will help you understand how game foley is different to regular foley design in film and tv.
If the "Gun" itself is not already designed, they should just make it the Winged Staff of Hermes. Have it be the flying object, and the character just holds onto it as it flies around. Few animations, diegetic excuse for flight, problem solved!
This is neat, but a bit hard to make diagetic in Hades. Thus far all the weapons and items have been relics from the Titan War kept in the underworld vaults. It seems unlikely that Hermes would entrust his staff to some young god stuck in the underworld. The shoes of Perseus might be a better bet. Perseus is dead, after all.
its super interesting seeing that the floating shoot weapon somewhat made a return in hades 2 with the torches, very cool to see the early concepts of it!
Same, I bought this game on the Switch sale (bc tbh it's not really a genre that appeals to me - for some reason I thought it would be more like Binding of Isaac), but I think anyone would enjoy this game
At first I was hesitant to watch this episode because I saw it was 42 min long but when it ended it felt like it was 30 min long. Really nice pacing, can't wait for more episodes.
I really enjoyed the two episodes so far. It really brought back the curtain on what it was like behind the scenes. Fascinating stuff. From the big companies, a lot of times all you see from them are robotic, scripted interactions with their customers. This humanized their company for me, and I'm honestly even more likely to purchase their games because of it.
Kinda surprised that between update 1 & update 2, there wasn't more to say than "We learned some lessons and we think we did better the second time around." But that's definitely preferable to some kind of contrived story narrative that didn't exist.
I'm so engaged with this material. I love seeing the effort and human element behind the development of this game - one that I was worried I'd get frustrated with but the characters keep me coming back for more, AND I love the fighting system. (And how awesome were the devs for including God Mode for less amazing players like me? That basically sold me on it: knowing there was a space for me to play)
As a developer, this documentary series specifically is amazing. It gives those who may not have the luxury of seeing their favorite projects come to life, and what goes on behind the closed doors in 'real time'. As developers we are usually so passionate about our projects that it is tough not being able to explain why we couldn't make feature X, Y, and Z or had to sacrifice A or B nice-to-have. Trust us when we say we really do wish we could do it all for those who believe in us enough to buy our games and enjoy them.
This is the perfect reminder to dip back into Hades and see what changed since week 1. I also just finished Age of Decadence and Shadow of Chernobyl, so this will fill my game time that's not preoccupied with starting up a town in New Leaf in preparation for the next AC. :3
It's interesting hearing how they discussed the intro of the gun in Hades. It's by far my least fave weapon, not bc I think it's bad, but just bc on Switch the reload by pressing R-stick is extremely annoying & having any sort of reload in this game really disrupts the flow for me. Thematically... well, it's a gun in a tale about the Greek gods, so there's that. Lol
You're totally right about the reload being awkward on switch! If you go to Control settings in the main menu, you can swap the reload with codex so that reload is left bumper and codex is push right stick. This makes the gun MUCH more fun- especially the Hestia aspect where you reload after the first shot hehe Hope this helps
@@okamiseven Yeah I was gonna say, I customize controls for each weapon in this game. Personally I think the gun is great precisely because it is so different from the other weapons. You have to approach thr combat way differently. Lots of fun to be had though, especially with the aspects.
I agree, but on the other hand the gun kind of forces me to use the special move to be effective and so many other weapons I just ignore special entirely.
With the floating and firing, i think that i could be really awesome. I imagine that since Zagreus is a cool guy he does a kind of 'Max Payne'-esk leaning back and firing thing, where he is not really flying and more perpetually falling with style.
Love Hades, even if ti isn't finished, can't wait for it to be finished, and I love the devs for actually keeping in touch with the community. Don't burn out yo!
I love this kind of insight into a game's development. It's not common at all to see this, and It's great to be able to. Seeing the kinds of problems developers run into.
I remember back in the days watching Greg on gamespot reviewing Kameo: elements of power (before the whole Kane and Lynch bad review controversy lol). Thank so much for these documentaries guys they are a wonderful and honest look into the game developing scene that has brought back a lot of nostalgic feelings. But most importantly has helped me appreciate how much passion and dedication really goes into videogames. Keep up the good work 👍
Kind of funny that they had this big talk about floating Zag as a good way to move while firing the gun but in the final game you can't move while firing the gun.
Ah, nice! Been waiting for this. 3:30 "people have been playing for a really long time." Looks at some who had thousands of darkness and hundreds of keys and ambrosia flasks. But yeah, it looks like the Chaos update,which was originally planned t be the 8th update, was pushed forward mainly to give players the option of additional difficulty and variable play with the inclusion of the Pact of Punishment which has several difficulty gauges such as increasing amount of enemies, increasing enemy health, reducing healing, money, and boons, and etc. and Chaos who would only reward players with a boon after undertaking a penalty for several encounters. 8:15 In the context of family, Chaos is treated as the long-forgotten grandfather who plays too many tricks and is generally more trouble than he's worth. He notes how the Olympians and the Underworld denizens have forgotten his existence 11:50 The build he's referring to here is Hunter's Dash Triple Shot Bow. Hunter's Dash was an Artemis boon that made all your attacks a crit 1-2 secs(depending on rank) after you dashed. Triple Shot was a Daedelus Hammer upgrade that let you fire three shots, arced like an acute angle. If the player was close enough to the enemy, they could launch all three arrows into a single enemy. With these two abilities, players could dash into an enemy and unleash the charged(bow attacks can be charged and timed to increase damage with dashing decreasing the charge time) critical attack. This deleted foes. And that was just the beginning. With a mirror upgrade that increased dash attack damage up to 100%, a straight attack boon from another God like Athena, another Artemis boon which increased critical damage by 75% and the Skull Earrings Keepsake which is basically the Red Eye Tearstone Ring, the game was trivalized. Encounters cleared in seconds and bosses in not even 30. It provoked a rework of the armor system(attacks could no longer overkill meaning if you dealt 200 damage to a enemy with 50 armor and 100 health, the damage would cut off at the 50, and you would need another hit to kill the enemy), Artemis boons(Hunter's Dash was changed to be the Dash attack damage boost from the Mirror), the critical system(crit chance was lowered across the board but crit damage became tripled as a result), and Triple Shot( the spread was increased to prevent players from shooting all three arrows into a single foe. The angle was changed from acute to obtuse and in the next update to a cross making it pretty useless now) 12:24 Not the first time the shield could hurt you. Earlier build had a bug where Ares boon with the shield could also damage and potentially kill you. Ah, they mentioned it. 13:20 They weren't immune to stun. There was a glitch with the geology where the enemy would collide with the ash pile and not trigger a wall slam or stun. 24:05 Interesting, so that was the prototype for the Adamant Rail. They ended up scrapping the floating, but I guess the additional animations of firing, reloading, and shooting special took more time than they thought since it wasn't actually released till the next update after the Chaos update. 35:00 "Hey mom." Hahaha, that's both sweet and incredibly teasable. 38:17 Ah, so they are covering both updates.
watching this after playing Hades 2 and understanding how the run and shoot weapon materialized in the end as the Torches. They managed to make the character float without it looking awkward! Now the awkward part is how she runs with the torches 😆
If you missed episode #01 you can watch it here: th-cam.com/video/JzyE9hi912c/w-d-xo.html
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В прошлой части были русские субтитры. Стоит ли ждать их в этой части?
So you're telling me, the brilliant composer for all supergiant games also voices BOTH Zagreus and Skelly??? Save some talent for the rest of us!
Mouth House I know right??? I wasn’t expecting Zag’s voice to come from his mouth
And the singing voice for Orpheus
Nice on boyo
and he had the best speedrun in the office I hear haha
Darren Korb
gotta admit im a lil sad you cant run and shoot at the same time but i am INFINITELY more glad that you're not floating while u shoot LOL
yeah, it felt silly, like Isaac level animation
@@kakker69 Headshot xD
hahah yeah- good job to the lady who shut it down. Just because something is easier to do- doesn't mean it's the best thing to do ^_^
yeahh i was like pffft sorry amir but honey no...
@@watchmejumpstart69 Persoally i think it would look sick once properly animated and Zag is actually using the Rail
I'm glad that they didn't go with the fire while moving weapon. The pressure of the constant dodging, moving and stoping to attack of the game is what keeps me on the edge of my seat on every run.
27:00 I love theat the developers feel comfortable enough to disagree and have civilized talks instead of someone just saying 'this is the way it is'
It's good to see yeah, as is said afterwards - that's how collaboration should be, messy or otherwise it's what probably gets the team to the best decision in the end.
That's the benefit of a close-knit team. Hard for someone to get a swell head and command everyone to do it their way when every person and their opinion is essential.
I'm glad they don't seem to get caught up in the weeds. The "democratic approach" to problem solving isn't always efficient -- sometimes someone in charge just needs to set the direction and go with it. But in the long run, considering the input from the team is generally the best option for turning out a well-developed product.
There's no way they could have been this successful in past games without that ability. It's an often unobserved x factor in group art projects.
I always feel that's the way to go with a collab process. It's like with my band that I'm the frontman of. We'll say critical things about a song we're making and our diagreements, but we've made it a point to never just be like, "this thing sucks". You gotta be civil about it and actually articulate what you don't like and why that is, then how to improve it. Flat out arguing with no basis for it can just be toxic and that I feel, has no place in a creative environment. Also, sometimes you gotta be big enough to admit your idea for a part not might not be as strong someone else's, then confidently say "you know what? You're right! That's a great idea. Let's put that in there!". That's not weakness, that's strength and you're combining your strength together to make something better. It's all part of the fun.
I wish these guys could release an art book. Their style is amazing and I’d love to see the process of how they got there.
They said on Discord that they were thinking about it, but they have limited resources and they want to focus on actual development.
@@Toporshik limited resources? It's a book. Individual artists release books of their work all the time.
@@Theyungcity23 Yes, individual artists do it all the time, because it's their main job - to make art and to sell it.
Supergiant's main job is to make games.
Also, it's not so easy to make an artbook. First, they will need to make a research to find all the pictures they created during their 10+ years of development. Then they will need to choose the most interesting ones, then write commentary, then edit commentary, then make a layout of a book - and making a layout of an artbook is quite a task, they will need to hire a professional to do it right - then they will have to make additional art to make the design of a book. Then they will have to look for a printing house and work with all the typographical stuff I don't even know about.
I think that it will take two or three months of work for at least two people, who I suspect will be Jen Zee (an artist who was with the studio from the beginning) and Greg Kasavin (a writer who also as I think puts together all the content as opposed to mechanics). They are key figures in the development. Making a book will halt Hades development for months - if that's not a picture of limited resources, I don't know what is.
@@Toporshik and Jen Zee their artist is an artist whose main job is to sell and create art.
Kim Jung Gi is an artist. His team does all of that for him. They just take his sketches and they put them in the book.
Japanese hentai artists buy printers and they sell their art for a few bucks here and there.
It's not a giant bureaucratic process. It's the artist and the publisher.
@@Theyungcity23 Дмитрий Иваненко covered a lot of good points already. Jen Zee is an artist who's job is to create art for the games themselves. Say she is able to commit fulltime to creating an artbook, there would still need to be a writer, editor, graphic designer, making deals with publishing companies, finding interested publishing companies to begin with, figuring out the logistics of what paper to use and shipping and retailing the books.... and all of these of course take time, effort and money that Supergiant could be using to creating more games.
Sure, there is always the option of just compiling some sketches and art in inDesign and then releasing it as an e-book with some quotes here and there, and that way shipping is a non-issue (though this takes time and effort allocated away from the game too). But if we're looking at physical, industry-quality artbooks that features good insight and commentary into the making of these games, it's going to take time and money and a dedicated team. Like you said, Kim Jung Gi has a team, and if it takes a team to create an artbook for one person, it's going to take a (probably larger) team to create an artbook for a game studio. And yeah, individual artists can print their own art, but again this isn't a viable option if we're expecting more than a zine of Supergiant art.
So I get where you're coming from, but this isn't as simple as just the artist and the publisher, which in of itself is a process.
Anyone else rewatching the doc after buying Hades 2 in early access? Absolutely loving the game and glad to be part of the early access period this time so I can provide feedback. Even as early access though it's way more polished than some final V1 from major studios like EA, CD Projekt Red, etc. This game came out day 1 in a really good state that feels good to play.
Yep
yupp me too 😆 the game is incredible so far
me too! I admire SGG so much, it's a joy to play any of their games. Hades 2 is amazing so far, it feels so polished already!
Yeah
Legit shook that audio director voices Zagreus and Skelly. On top of doing all audio work, Damn talk about multi talented
I love the arguments on if zag should float when shooting the gun
The “he already floats” argument is so real to any business meeting lmao.
I entirely get where both were coming from too.
What a tight gameplay loop - I've killed that bloody hydra over 50 times so far but I've hardly lost interest.
This is honestly fascinating, for an aspiring game dev like me.
Absolutly agreed!
Bought this game like 4 days ago and now I’m all the way down the rabbit hole. I rly appreciate this documentary
The conversation around the floating for the gun is SO real. I feel like I've had that exact meeting at work 100 times. It always feels like you are getting nowhere and frustrating each other but, in reality, they are for the best and you're glad you had a bit of an argument to arrive at a better conclusion. Really enjoying this series. Fantastic work! I did find it odd, how we spent a lot of time on update #2 and jumped right to the end of update #3. Was this because not much for filmed for the process of updated #3, or because of how hectic update #2 was or was it less interesting from the standpoint of having just watched the update #2 stuff? Curious. Sad to watch someone like Camilo leaving, it's always tough when you had such a tight studio but if a person feels like they have to move on then it's for the best.. Wish him the best! Anyway, I'm off to play more Hades, because I've not put as much time into it as I want. Can't wait for more on the series and the game.
Love that your profile picture is The Will
@@StudioInkblot Who is the will?
Every gamer should watch this documentary to understand why no, fixing game features is not as simple as flipping a switch, and no, saying "this gun is shit" is not interesting or helping. Either wait for fixes or explain the problems in detail.
Actually saying "this gun is shit" is helping. The developers just need to know what players don't like. It's their job to figure out a solution, they are the experts. Of course, usually, when someone says something like "this gun is shit", they haven't thought about it much, but for a developer all they need to know is what players dislike, find boring or is just not as interesting as other mechanics in the game.
Yeah, Crowbar is correct. When you're creating content for people who aren't capable of critical analysis, you have to accept such poor feedback because that's the metric you've set up for yourself. The game industry is a weird land of codependent abusive relationships.
@David Lad Actually supergiant themselves say the exact opposite of what you just said. In their discord. They have a "feedback" channel, where they specifically say "we will figure out the solution".
@David Lad well, your anecdotal evidence vs. mine. Everyones different, blablabla.
I personally think simply knowing what people dislike is more than enough, I don't want them to explain why, they don't know the craft, the artform, whatever they say might be completely false and the true reason why they dislike something might be something completely different. The only certain truth is, that they dislike what they are talking about.
Do it right there first time and you don't need to change anything. That's what they used to do before broadband was ubiquitous.
Supergiant Games is the reason I started building my own games. It's so wonderful to get a view of their company. I love them all so much!
Nice! It gives me hope for the future of my favorite hobby that fellow fans of these guys are making their own games. There's so much thought and love in everything they make. I wish you the same dedication!
They really are so inspiring! Working in a small, dedicated, friendly studio like this sounds like a dream 🙃
Back at it again with some of the best docs on TH-cam
Thanks again for the peek into Hades. Been playing a lot of in in between Eps 1 & 2 of this series and really am loving it!
So my best friend just gifted me this game because I'm out of work with a broken finger and I have to say this is slowly becoming my favorite indie game of all time. It's so good and the art and story so far is amazing.
Man, I can't wait to actually play it when it's all finished
It's a real treat to play! The polish is so impressive, especially after seeing how Supergiant are adjusting to Early Access.
Can't wait to play it when it comes to steam
@@xx123manxx I agree epic just doesnt seem to run smooth enough yet at least for me
Yeah, they are really shooting themselves in the foot with this exclusivity nonsense. My backlog is full of games I haven't gotten around to and installing yet another store is something I will do if the game seems worth it. But even games that I am very much looking forward to, like Metro Exodus, I feel like I can just wait a year or two and play them when they are released on Steam or GoG.
It's not so much minding buying things from Epic, it's having things in more places. Also, as far as I understand Epic has an always online requirement and that is never acceptable for any single-player title.
*when is actually in steam
Jen's voice is so beautiful. I could hear her talk all day. Wish she had a podcast
Her singing in the one video in this series is beautiful too.
you know, you're going to have to wear that same jumper forever now.
Yeah like if he doesn't wear that exact same jumper people should be goin "who's THIS guy?!"
It's so nice to watch this video after beat the game.
Same here, though I wish I had known about Hades earlier. But then again I am blessed to play this game after a lot of patches and improvements.
Yes! I've been playing every week, loving this month's Good Times update!
This is an amazing resource for anyone doing game dev or aspiring to do so. I like that the team was using Twitch as a real-time feedback channel, getting incredibly rich data by just observing people using their product. Darren Korb is a beast for doing all the audio and voice over. Greg keeping the lore and game world consistent is part of why Supergiant games feel so well designed.
Holy crap I'm so blown away by this. So many huge studios would never show this kind of content. The process at work! It's amazing. I love watching them make all their decisions and really working to figure this stuff out. Fighting the blank page. GOD so good! Thank you guys for making this.
This is seriously some of the best insight I've seen into what that development process looks like. The section with the gun is prime stuff. I know Jeremy is there often, but it seems like the Supergiant folks are also really comfortable keeping y'all in the loop, which is really nice. I feel like sometimes with these embedded things, the subjects have to learn how to be on camera and talk about stuff, but they're already pros.
I must admit, for a second there I read the title as: "Hades - development hell"
Same
That's the joke, I think
I feel like the rail would have been super OP if you could move and fire at the same time. Really cool process they go through.
I bought the game but haven't played it. I love the developers, I admire the artist Jen Zee, and I really want to see a Switch release (hence supporting the game now for that hopefully down the road).
Year later- WISH GRANTED
Coming back to these after playing a bit with Hades 2, it's super interesting to see that the floating shooting weapon got realized in the sequel!
I’d love to see more of what goes on in the recording studio (music, voiceovers)! Logan Cunningham is the main voice of all their games so far and I’d love to see some of his insight.
The floating thing is interesting because it shows the chasm between a developer who is looking for microscopic details versus a general gamer who can more easily zoom out and see the bigger picture. I have to admit, in all my time playing the game I’ve never considered Zag to be floating and just put down the momentary hover to the power of his attack.
Just got into this game after years of holding back. Thank god I did. And this Doc made me love it even more. I really love this game and these people. They did great as always.
I'm loving this new "Play it now!" trend on announcements.
Much better than "Preorder now!". Much much better.
Me too! Apex Legends would've had SO much hate from gamers for being just another band wagon BR game, but they never gave it the chance. Just, hey we made a new game, go play it right now, it's free.
It was a stroke of marketing genius, honestly.
Thank you for showing work being done (and thanks for supergiant for being open to you too). Labor has been slowly erased from entertaiment. It's a form of alienation in some senses. Due to the pressure of having to be fun, work is relegated to, at most, a montage sequence. Or a transition filler. In the Friends tv series, people don't work on camera. Meanwhile, work dominates more and more of our waking hours and companies become more and more black boxes, with corporate secrets and IPs to maintain.
To see a small part of the work process of figuring out how to put a gun in the game is very interesting and sets the piece apart from mainstream. I just wanted to point out how uncommon that is right now, we don't realize it's happening.
Who else remembers Greg Kasavin from the Gamespot days? He inspired me to write about games!
Crazy to see where the Rail began and it's design philosophy compared to it's model in the current patch (Long Winter)
You guys should feel so proud for producing this masterpiece. It’s the best game I’ve played in years.
Is it strange that I actually want to do video game development after watching this? I know it’s not always fun and this release schedule their on it stressful - but this is so satisfying to just watch. I can imagine it is even more when you’re in the midst of it
I fucking love this studio. They are small but their quality is second to none.
Fascinating stuff as always. Supergiant is far and away one of the best developers going, but I just don't do early access. It's great to be able to see the game evolve in (near) real-time without having to burn myself out on a work in-progress. Keep up the great work!
Double thumbs up for this documentary and how professional everything is! And even though everything is so professional the whole thing seems so relaxed and fun! Keep it up Noclip and Supergiant! Boom Curls updating.
Since Double Fine Adventure ended, I feel like a gap in ongoing video game documentary series had yet to be filled but I absolutely feel like, after this great episode, this series is going to pick up the ball and run with it. Great work to you and your team, Danny as always and looking forward to seeing more!
I’m still pretty bad with Exagryph, but I think stand-in-place-and-fire was the right move, the run and gun seemed so strong as to be overpowered. I think the stand-in-place gives it a good sense of power, and a creative restriction to have to work around. Years later and I’m lovin these documentaries
I am so Hyped for this Doc series! Can't wait to watch it when I get home.
I really love these. I see Darren and Logan a lot at the front, so it's nice to see everyone else who helped make one of the most amazing games.
Wow I had no idea my fav range weapon was gonna have you float... yeah I'm kinda glad they back downed on from this.
Watching Darren Korb voice Zagreus is so gosh darn strange. Same for watching [the voice actor] do Orpheus in the last episode.
These have some of the most insightful docs I've ever watched
Game development seems so fun but at the same time very stressful. I really want a job like this but I can't code at all, my mind just doesn't work like that. Making sound effects and voice overs is so appealing to me, I just have no idea how to get started with that.
Everything, from voice overs to code, is about practice.
Now, I don't work in audio but I am a game dev, and if you're interested in a random strangers tip, it would be to not bother with getting a game dev education and instead just make stuff for people in modding communities and build a portfolio. Portfolio and experience > education.
It greatly depends on the education though. Some schools helps you build and improve your portfolio while providing professional network, and, in France at least, Network matters a lot @@toboldlysplitinfinitives6518
it will be challenging to get into this career, but look at middleware programs like Wwise, it will help you understand how game foley is different to regular foley design in film and tv.
Love this behind the scenes look into a developer and the early access style of releasing games. Great work! Thank Noclip and thanks Supergiant Games.
If the "Gun" itself is not already designed, they should just make it the Winged Staff of Hermes. Have it be the flying object, and the character just holds onto it as it flies around. Few animations, diegetic excuse for flight, problem solved!
I like this.
Not bad...
This has gotten be shown to them or suggested to them directly I feel like it has strong potential
This is neat, but a bit hard to make diagetic in Hades. Thus far all the weapons and items have been relics from the Titan War kept in the underworld vaults. It seems unlikely that Hermes would entrust his staff to some young god stuck in the underworld.
The shoes of Perseus might be a better bet. Perseus is dead, after all.
@@Alforbia i like the idea of Zagreus flying around just kicking enemies and pointing his foot at someone and shooting artemis' cast spell.
The game has become one of my favorites lately. So thank you for the peek into the development process.
This is a great feature. I would love to see one like this for Red Hook Studios (Darkest Dungeon).
Matthew Hepler oooh, that'd be sick especially now that they're confirmed working on darkest dungeon 2
Enkeli’s comment at 9:14 seems like it could be where Legendary and Duo boons came from! Great suggestion
God Nyx looks so different now
Devs need to make more videos like these all across the industry. This brings me closer to the game and the team behind it
I agree with the artist Jen on this one. Even on the final product, the gun still feels off for me as it doesn’t mesh well with Greek myth.
its super interesting seeing that the floating shoot weapon somewhat made a return in hades 2 with the torches, very cool to see the early concepts of it!
And here I am, stuck, watching an entire series of No Clip documentaries! As always, an amazing film!
Same, I bought this game on the Switch sale (bc tbh it's not really a genre that appeals to me - for some reason I thought it would be more like Binding of Isaac), but I think anyone would enjoy this game
At first I was hesitant to watch this episode because I saw it was 42 min long but when it ended it felt like it was 30 min long. Really nice pacing, can't wait for more episodes.
Man I can't wait till it's on GoG! Looking forward to it. Loving this series!
I love how they are deciding the design decision when Zagreus holds the bazooka 27:52
This was the only game that did "Early Access" well. Great Job SuperGiant
Zagreus A-pose floating while shooting white sticky balls is too funny im sorry 😂
I really enjoyed the two episodes so far. It really brought back the curtain on what it was like behind the scenes. Fascinating stuff. From the big companies, a lot of times all you see from them are robotic, scripted interactions with their customers. This humanized their company for me, and I'm honestly even more likely to purchase their games because of it.
Loving this series. It's fascinating to see how it all works and comes together. Really highlights the challenges a developer (big or small) faces.
I love getting this kind of insight. Thanks for making it happen.
Kinda surprised that between update 1 & update 2, there wasn't more to say than "We learned some lessons and we think we did better the second time around." But that's definitely preferable to some kind of contrived story narrative that didn't exist.
Can't wait for the game to be finished. Looks awesome so far
I'm so engaged with this material. I love seeing the effort and human element behind the development of this game - one that I was worried I'd get frustrated with but the characters keep me coming back for more, AND I love the fighting system. (And how awesome were the devs for including God Mode for less amazing players like me? That basically sold me on it: knowing there was a space for me to play)
Amazing documentary No Clip and Danny! Supergiant Games worked hard to get Hades made.
As a developer, this documentary series specifically is amazing. It gives those who may not have the luxury of seeing their favorite projects come to life, and what goes on behind the closed doors in 'real time'. As developers we are usually so passionate about our projects that it is tough not being able to explain why we couldn't make feature X, Y, and Z or had to sacrifice A or B nice-to-have. Trust us when we say we really do wish we could do it all for those who believe in us enough to buy our games and enjoy them.
This is the perfect reminder to dip back into Hades and see what changed since week 1.
I also just finished Age of Decadence and Shadow of Chernobyl, so this will fill my game time that's not preoccupied with starting up a town in New Leaf in preparation for the next AC. :3
Awesome. Have been looking forward to seen more. Thank you.
The flying part was hilarious. I was thinking they should have just stuck a DBZ flying nimbus in there and called it a day.
It's interesting hearing how they discussed the intro of the gun in Hades. It's by far my least fave weapon, not bc I think it's bad, but just bc on Switch the reload by pressing R-stick is extremely annoying & having any sort of reload in this game really disrupts the flow for me. Thematically... well, it's a gun in a tale about the Greek gods, so there's that. Lol
What is ur fav weapon? Jus curious
You're totally right about the reload being awkward on switch! If you go to Control settings in the main menu, you can swap the reload with codex so that reload is left bumper and codex is push right stick. This makes the gun MUCH more fun- especially the Hestia aspect where you reload after the first shot hehe
Hope this helps
@@okamiseven Yeah I was gonna say, I customize controls for each weapon in this game.
Personally I think the gun is great precisely because it is so different from the other weapons. You have to approach thr combat way differently. Lots of fun to be had though, especially with the aspects.
I agree, but on the other hand the gun kind of forces me to use the special move to be effective and so many other weapons I just ignore special entirely.
With the floating and firing, i think that i could be really awesome. I imagine that since Zagreus is a cool guy he does a kind of 'Max Payne'-esk leaning back and firing thing, where he is not really flying and more perpetually falling with style.
4:24 that was some loud hiccup
(Great documentary by the way!)
I remember that dude from Gamespot. I Happy he is still rocking it with supergiant!
There is so much work put in this game. Amazing.
Love Hades, even if ti isn't finished, can't wait for it to be finished, and I love the devs for actually keeping in touch with the community. Don't burn out yo!
I love this kind of insight into a game's development. It's not common at all to see this, and It's great to be able to. Seeing the kinds of problems developers run into.
Fantastic coverage. I'd really like to see an episode about the in-game dev tools they're using; The debuggers, etc.
I remember back in the days watching Greg on gamespot reviewing Kameo: elements of power (before the whole Kane and Lynch bad review controversy lol). Thank so much for these documentaries guys they are a wonderful and honest look into the game developing scene that has brought back a lot of nostalgic feelings. But most importantly has helped me appreciate how much passion and dedication really goes into videogames. Keep up the good work 👍
Can't wait for the game to release on Steam so I can finally play it!
Great stuff! Thank you, as always.
Lovin Hades, the updates, and these noclip vids. Just lovin it.
Kind of funny that they had this big talk about floating Zag as a good way to move while firing the gun but in the final game you can't move while firing the gun.
Ah, nice! Been waiting for this.
3:30 "people have been playing for a really long time."
Looks at some who had thousands of darkness and hundreds of keys and ambrosia flasks.
But yeah, it looks like the Chaos update,which was originally planned t be the 8th update, was pushed forward mainly to give players the option of additional difficulty and variable play with the inclusion of the Pact of Punishment which has several difficulty gauges such as increasing amount of enemies, increasing enemy health, reducing healing, money, and boons, and etc. and Chaos who would only reward players with a boon after undertaking a penalty for several encounters.
8:15
In the context of family, Chaos is treated as the long-forgotten grandfather who plays too many tricks and is generally more trouble than he's worth. He notes how the Olympians and the Underworld denizens have forgotten his existence
11:50
The build he's referring to here is Hunter's Dash Triple Shot Bow. Hunter's Dash was an Artemis boon that made all your attacks a crit 1-2 secs(depending on rank) after you dashed. Triple Shot was a Daedelus Hammer upgrade that let you fire three shots, arced like an acute angle. If the player was close enough to the enemy, they could launch all three arrows into a single enemy.
With these two abilities, players could dash into an enemy and unleash the charged(bow attacks can be charged and timed to increase damage with dashing decreasing the charge time) critical attack. This deleted foes.
And that was just the beginning. With a mirror upgrade that increased dash attack damage up to 100%, a straight attack boon from another God like Athena, another Artemis boon which increased critical damage by 75% and the Skull Earrings Keepsake which is basically the Red Eye Tearstone Ring, the game was trivalized. Encounters cleared in seconds and bosses in not even 30.
It provoked a rework of the armor system(attacks could no longer overkill meaning if you dealt 200 damage to a enemy with 50 armor and 100 health, the damage would cut off at the 50, and you would need another hit to kill the enemy), Artemis boons(Hunter's Dash was changed to be the Dash attack damage boost from the Mirror), the critical system(crit chance was lowered across the board but crit damage became tripled as a result), and Triple Shot( the spread was increased to prevent players from shooting all three arrows into a single foe. The angle was changed from acute to obtuse and in the next update to a cross making it pretty useless now)
12:24
Not the first time the shield could hurt you. Earlier build had a bug where Ares boon with the shield could also damage and potentially kill you.
Ah, they mentioned it.
13:20
They weren't immune to stun. There was a glitch with the geology where the enemy would collide with the ash pile and not trigger a wall slam or stun.
24:05
Interesting, so that was the prototype for the Adamant Rail. They ended up scrapping the floating, but I guess the additional animations of firing, reloading, and shooting special took more time than they thought since it wasn't actually released till the next update after the Chaos update.
35:00
"Hey mom."
Hahaha, that's both sweet and incredibly teasable.
38:17
Ah, so they are covering both updates.
I love these character designs, so sleek but still creative
Amazing amounts of energy going into developing these games.
7:50 "I think it sounds pretty rad"
meanwhile creative director: not convinced
XD
woah nyx looks way different! 6:31
Always interesting to watch a developer documentary and count off the dev tools I have used.
watching this after playing Hades 2 and understanding how the run and shoot weapon materialized in the end as the Torches. They managed to make the character float without it looking awkward! Now the awkward part is how she runs with the torches 😆
Thanks for your ongoing wonderful job
25:11 how did nobody come up with the grimoire weiss solution of having the weapon be an entity seperate from zagreus?
Nier is underrated :(
This is the first thing I'm going to watch when I get home :)
Edit: I love it!