Doug, wow what a BRAIN! I thought I was a master of code, wow love your energy for this. this is the holy grail of what I have been looking for. thank you for the intel.
I’m just using VLC player that’s triggered through it’s webinterface. Then companion is switching to the KEY input (just using green keyed animations) and companion switching to the second input.
Doug - thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm curious if the HD Studio Mini has changed since you made this video? The back of the model you show at 3:14 is different than mine. I have (from right to left) SDI Out and In, HDMI Out and EXT Disk, TC Out and In, Ref Out and In. I'm in a pure SDI workflow, but wondering how I could make this work. Thanks
The unit I show here is the original HyperDeck Studio Mini, sold from 2017 until 2021. I believe what you have is the HyperDeck Studio HD Mini (notice the "HD" added to the name). They are different. The current base model which has the separate Fill/Key outputs is the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus. But you can pick up the older unit on eBay for pretty reasonable prices if fill/key is something you need.
Would have been great if you could load video files with alpha onto a ssd and the ATEM Mini Extreme could use these in its media pool when the ssd was connected to the USBC port.
I still can't figure out, if the television Studio 4K Version of the switchers has a dedicated Stinger Function. I can nowhere find helpful information even on the Website of Blackmagic. :( Does anybody have more information on that?
It does. And it can store up to 360 frames in two clips for the media player in 1080p. www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudio/techspecs/W-APS-11
@@djp_video do the steps change because it can load clips into the media player instead of a hyperdeck? i also notice that the tv studio 4k only has one upstream, is there no way to use another key there instead for those double alpha transitions?
@@gurumonkey Some, yes. You'd use a media player as the source instead of the HyperDeck. And then start playback on the Media Player instead of the HyperDeck when it comes time to do the transition. The double alpha wipes do require two keyers, so things do get a little bit more awkward on the TVS products. You'd have to use one upstream and one downstream key instead of two upstream keys.
Hi there, you recommended Digital Juice as a source. They currently have a 50% sales on lifetime subscriptions. Is that a serious rare bargain, or is that their standard offer anyway?
Hi Doug do the wipes from digitaljuice come as individual frames as I think that is what you need with the new constallation atems to add to the stinger clip1
Premiere supports transparency. You don't have to do anything special for PNGs... for other formats you just make sure to select a format which has alpha channel support.
This one was from Digital Juice. It's copyrighted so I can't share it. All you need is an animated transition with a transparent background. They are available from many sources.
Great video as always! I too have been using VLC to cue VTs using the fill only of the luma key which works fine for simple bold/solid (no black!) pieces. I haven’t attempted using paired playback to add in the alpha key as well though. But playing back 4444 movs from a hyperdeck would make things much simpler. I have resisted buying one but having seen the advantages on the two SDI outs and how it separates the signal across these two outputs is certainly making me think a lot harder about making that extra investment to pair with my new Extreme (which is amazing!).
mimoLive software (macOS only unfortunately) can talk to ATEMs and output seperate Fill and Key channels through an appropriate hardware video like the BMD UltraStudio series of products.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +1
@@alastairleith8612 Qlab do that too, but also only for macOS
Hi, you have very cool videos. I also have an atem mini extreme. There is a STING button on the board and in the program. But neither in the instructions, nor in other videos, I did not find how to work with it. Maybe you can give me a hint?
Also... when will we find out what thing stinger bus on the Extreme actually does?! H2R did a nice little video demoing the logo with DVE transitions this week but no info on the stinger button...
As of right now it doesn’t do anything at all. This video is my best guess as to what they mean to do with it. We don’t know when or if this functionality may or may not come.
I have a Question is there a Special setting you need in the Hyperdeck mini to tell it key (SDI output A) and fill (SDI channel B) Can you use a Computer to do the same thing with a decklink card??
On the HyperDeck, the separate Key/Fill is automatic when you give it a video file that has an alpha channel. ProRes 4:4:4:4 with Alpha, for example. DeckLink cards with a single output won't work for Key/Fill. But any of the models with two separate outputs are capable. You'd just need to use some software that supports it.
Could you not use OBS (projection output) to do this without any extra hardware? For example, you could have your graphic or stinger animation on OBS as a media source, then create 2 scenes (one "KEY" and one "FILL") with copies of the source, but tweak the "KEY" scene with the filter so that it is an Alpha of the original source. You Then "Projector Output" both the Preview and Program source to their own HDMI outputs into the ATEM (You could also just "Projector Output" the source itself, and trigger it with macros using companion) Here to Record has a video on how he does this (he also shows the decklink method which he uses, but I do not own a decklink or a hyperdeck Studio).
If you can create separate, independent video sources (and synchronize the corresponding outputs) for the Fill and Key you can pull it off. But you'd have to be able to play two different video files, synced up perfectly, for the Fill and Key. So if you can either (1) play two indepedent files in perfect sync, or (2) OBS has a way to extract an alpha channel from a file and output the fill layer and key layer separately you might be able to make something work. Sort of. Regular computer video outputs are normally not synchronized to one another. So while one output is just starting the top of a frame, the other one might be 3/4 done with the frame it is drawing. So even with OBS playing two files in perfect sync, the video output you use for the Fill would still likely be out of sync with the output for the Key, leading to weird things happening to the edges of moving elements -- some not being transparent when they should be, or being transparent when they shouldn't be, or at least not having the correct level of transparency. If you have a DeckLink or similar card with multiple video outputs which are synchronized, and have software to generate video with an alpha channel, you could make that work too. I'm pretty sure OBS doesn't support that. I know that vMix will, and ProPresenter can. And I'd bet that there are others too. OBS seems more limited in that department. The method with the HyperDeck works so well because it is designed to extract the alpha channel from a video file and play it on the second output in perfect sync with the first output. It's a feature that was designed into the player.
@@djp_video Yeah, you are exactly right, its not the smoothest method (I'm just trying to avoid buying lots of extra hardware). I am aware the Hyperdeck/decklink method is the most stable with the lowest possibilities of having issues. OBS does have a dedicated "Decklink" output specifically for key and fill outputs, so that isn't an issue. From the video H2R Graphics did, he found out that he had issues with H2R app Key and Fill outputs not syncing up, but when he put the graphics through OBS and did the method I mentioned, there was Zero sync issues. Using Macros with companion (or some other software) it is fairly easy to trigger sources at the same time (As I have done it in the past with no issue) so syncing isn't a worry, although I would have to avoid animations that involve a lot of transparency or semi-transparency. I would probably have to look at having a separate laptop to run all graphics using OBS though.
Hi. I have been looking at your videos and they have saved me a lot of headache. I just want to know if we need the Hyperdeck to do this. I want to use a separate computer as the control to do this instead. Is this possible? The reason for this is because although I have a Hyperdeck mini, I haven't been given a network switcher nor additional cabling. Also because I feel it would be easier for getting things setup for new operators etc.
Doug, great video! I am so glad I came across this. I have a MINI pro but I am interested in an extreme. The only thing I did not like was that it would not play PNG image sequences for Wipes/Stingers. I shoot a lot of sports and tend to need them. I am fairly new to BMD products and I see some other HyperDeck models. Will the cheaper ones do this as well as long as it has 2 outputs? Like the Ulta Studio HD Mini for example?
The hardware is capable, but you'd have to use compatible software that knows how to output separate fill and key, and then find a way to trigger it from a macro or script. Also, keep in mind that you lose half of your bandwidth when using computer interfaces like that. So if you wanted 59.94 fps output with both fill and key (3G-SDI each), you'd need a device that can do 6G-SDI.
@@djp_video sounds like I might hold off and see if BMD does add the Sting feature or possibly also add NDI through the Network port. This is the only thing holding me back from purchasing one.
hello Doug, nice video. we models atem 1me and atem 2me the stinger transition is available, is it possible to make the transition only with atem ? or do you need the hyperdeck?
@@djp_video thanks for the feedback, if I'm not mistaken they are png sequences up to 180frames right? do you have any teaching material on these models?
The number of frames varies based on the video resolution you're using. And you can split the total number of frames between the two clip stores as you wish. I don't have any training on this feature.
Shouldn’t it be possible to do the double alpha transition on a regular Mini as well by utilizing the downstream keyer for the graphics/fill (as an overlay) and the upstream keyer for the transition between the sources?
Yes, but since you’d need three inputs for the graphics and two keys you would only have one input left, leaving you no second source to transition to.
Thanks dough for the all the insight. I want to ask, the new HyperDeck Studio HD Mini no longer have the dual SDI out. I'm trying to creating a 4k 30 recording step with the atem extreem iso, if i do pick the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus, Do you think I can mix the output with the HDMI and the SDI B (converted to hdmi) for the same effect? I ask ask beacuse buying 2, 4k 30 SDI to HDMI converters (195 per) and the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus(695), just to get transitions is quite steep. Any insight is much appreciated!
Just so we're on the same page, the ATEM Mini Extreme doesn't do 4K. Neither does the HyperDeck Studio Mini HD. The ATEM Minis max out at 1080p60. None do 4K. The HyperDeck Studio Mini HD does not support separate Fill/Key at all. The minimum product for that feature from Blackmagic is the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus, but it will only do it in HD, not 4K. The HyperDeck Studio Plus will play (or record) 4K30, but not with an alpha channel (separate fill/key) -- when there is an alpha channel it is limited to HD resolutions. As you've noticed, the recorders that support alpha channels output those channels on SDI, not HDMI, so you'd need to do conversion to HDMI if you want to do this with the ATEM Mini, as I did in this video. The Micro converters will work just fine for this -- you don't have to get the 4K/6G Mini converters. If you need to do 4K with alpha transparency, the minimum recorder you'd need is the HyperDeck Studio 4K Pro, and minimum switcher would be the Production Studio 4K.
@@djp_video Thank for the details. Just to clarify... given that I pick up HyperDeck Studio 4k Pro. can I use the HDMI out as my fill and the SDI out "B" as my key. so that I don't have to by 2 sdi to hdmi converters ?
Jeez! Not only am I almost $ 1000 further with all the additional equipment needed just to have a stinger, that weird sequence of illogical steps and endless button pushing makes me regret I didn't buy a Roland or other switcher. Perhaps I will sell it and dive deeper into OBS.
Can't this be done with macro on the atem mini(pro)? Put a lot of images in the mediapool and call them in a macro cycle ? edit: Yep it can be done on any atem mini without adding hardware and with some limitations. Here I found a guy explaining: th-cam.com/video/aQzW15dU0Fg/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, I understand why you'd do it, and how it would work. I'm just not sure if triggering that many frames back-to-back in a macro would run smoothly or not. I haven't tried it.
It was kind of a promising video until you mentioned and brought another device to the picture so you either need one of the more expensive ATEM devices or the other device you showed so I just passed and went away
Doug, wow what a BRAIN! I thought I was a master of code, wow love your energy for this. this is the holy grail of what I have been looking for. thank you for the intel.
Great video! Thanks for explaining in detail, very helpful! 😀
I’m just using VLC player that’s triggered through it’s webinterface. Then companion is switching to the KEY input (just using green keyed animations) and companion switching to the second input.
Post a video...
Doug - thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm curious if the HD Studio Mini has changed since you made this video? The back of the model you show at 3:14 is different than mine. I have (from right to left) SDI Out and In, HDMI Out and EXT Disk, TC Out and In, Ref Out and In. I'm in a pure SDI workflow, but wondering how I could make this work.
Thanks
The unit I show here is the original HyperDeck Studio Mini, sold from 2017 until 2021. I believe what you have is the HyperDeck Studio HD Mini (notice the "HD" added to the name). They are different. The current base model which has the separate Fill/Key outputs is the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus. But you can pick up the older unit on eBay for pretty reasonable prices if fill/key is something you need.
Would have been great if you could load video files with alpha onto a ssd and the ATEM Mini Extreme could use these in its media pool when the ssd was connected to the USBC port.
I still can't figure out, if the television Studio 4K Version of the switchers has a dedicated Stinger Function. I can nowhere find helpful information even on the Website of Blackmagic. :( Does anybody have more information on that?
It does. And it can store up to 360 frames in two clips for the media player in 1080p.
www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudio/techspecs/W-APS-11
@@djp_video Thanks the Info! 👍🏻
@@djp_video do the steps change because it can load clips into the media player instead of a hyperdeck? i also notice that the tv studio 4k only has one upstream, is there no way to use another key there instead for those double alpha transitions?
@@gurumonkey Some, yes. You'd use a media player as the source instead of the HyperDeck. And then start playback on the Media Player instead of the HyperDeck when it comes time to do the transition.
The double alpha wipes do require two keyers, so things do get a little bit more awkward on the TVS products. You'd have to use one upstream and one downstream key instead of two upstream keys.
@@djp_video so it is possible to use a downstream keyer as well?
Hi there, you recommended Digital Juice as a source. They currently have a 50% sales on lifetime subscriptions. Is that a serious rare bargain, or is that their standard offer anyway?
As of 6/27/22, has there been any update to the ATEM Mini Extreme ISO so that the Sting button works?
No
What is the button pad you are using to switch with your right hand there?
X-Keys XK-24. It controls my switcher through the JustMacros software. I've done more than a handful of videos on this setup.
@@djp_video Awesome! I will take a look! This is the first video of yours I watched.
Hi Doug do the wipes from digitaljuice come as individual frames as I think that is what you need with the new constallation atems to add to the stinger clip1
They’re video files. I drop them into Premiere and export as PNG sequences. Very simple to do the conversion.
@@djp_video Thanks so much for the reply Doug how do get the transparency layer doing that though?
Thanks Doug I worked it out
Premiere supports transparency. You don't have to do anything special for PNGs... for other formats you just make sure to select a format which has alpha channel support.
Wished you had made that stinger file available for us to try. Know where I can find one to test?
This one was from Digital Juice. It's copyrighted so I can't share it.
All you need is an animated transition with a transparent background. They are available from many sources.
Great video as always! I too have been using VLC to cue VTs using the fill only of the luma key which works fine for simple bold/solid (no black!) pieces. I haven’t attempted using paired playback to add in the alpha key as well though. But playing back 4444 movs from a hyperdeck would make things much simpler. I have resisted buying one but having seen the advantages on the two SDI outs and how it separates the signal across these two outputs is certainly making me think a lot harder about making that extra investment to pair with my new Extreme (which is amazing!).
mimoLive software (macOS only unfortunately) can talk to ATEMs and output seperate Fill and Key channels through an appropriate hardware video like the BMD UltraStudio series of products.
@@alastairleith8612 Qlab do that too, but also only for macOS
Hi, you have very cool videos. I also have an atem mini extreme. There is a STING button on the board and in the program. But neither in the instructions, nor in other videos, I did not find how to work with it. Maybe you can give me a hint?
th-cam.com/video/EKsVhS6HIN0/w-d-xo.html
The Atem Extreme have "Stinger" button on it, but doesn't have the functionality.. Any informations from Blackmagic when will Stinger button work?
I don't have any inside information. Your guess is as good as mine.
Also... when will we find out what thing stinger bus on the Extreme actually does?! H2R did a nice little video demoing the logo with DVE transitions this week but no info on the stinger button...
As of right now it doesn’t do anything at all. This video is my best guess as to what they mean to do with it. We don’t know when or if this functionality may or may not come.
Doug I am running Mojovae do I need catalina or Big sur to to run the hyper deck mini with the stem extreme?
I don't believe so
I have a Question
is there a Special setting you need in the Hyperdeck mini to tell it key (SDI output A) and fill (SDI channel B)
Can you use a Computer to do the same thing with a decklink card??
On the HyperDeck, the separate Key/Fill is automatic when you give it a video file that has an alpha channel. ProRes 4:4:4:4 with Alpha, for example.
DeckLink cards with a single output won't work for Key/Fill. But any of the models with two separate outputs are capable. You'd just need to use some software that supports it.
@@djp_video Thank You
Awesome & Thanks :)
Could you not use OBS (projection output) to do this without any extra hardware?
For example, you could have your graphic or stinger animation on OBS as a media source, then create 2 scenes (one "KEY" and one "FILL") with copies of the source, but tweak the "KEY" scene with the filter so that it is an Alpha of the original source. You Then "Projector Output" both the Preview and Program source to their own HDMI outputs into the ATEM (You could also just "Projector Output" the source itself, and trigger it with macros using companion)
Here to Record has a video on how he does this (he also shows the decklink method which he uses, but I do not own a decklink or a hyperdeck Studio).
If you can create separate, independent video sources (and synchronize the corresponding outputs) for the Fill and Key you can pull it off. But you'd have to be able to play two different video files, synced up perfectly, for the Fill and Key. So if you can either (1) play two indepedent files in perfect sync, or (2) OBS has a way to extract an alpha channel from a file and output the fill layer and key layer separately you might be able to make something work. Sort of.
Regular computer video outputs are normally not synchronized to one another. So while one output is just starting the top of a frame, the other one might be 3/4 done with the frame it is drawing. So even with OBS playing two files in perfect sync, the video output you use for the Fill would still likely be out of sync with the output for the Key, leading to weird things happening to the edges of moving elements -- some not being transparent when they should be, or being transparent when they shouldn't be, or at least not having the correct level of transparency.
If you have a DeckLink or similar card with multiple video outputs which are synchronized, and have software to generate video with an alpha channel, you could make that work too. I'm pretty sure OBS doesn't support that. I know that vMix will, and ProPresenter can. And I'd bet that there are others too. OBS seems more limited in that department.
The method with the HyperDeck works so well because it is designed to extract the alpha channel from a video file and play it on the second output in perfect sync with the first output. It's a feature that was designed into the player.
@@djp_video Yeah, you are exactly right, its not the smoothest method (I'm just trying to avoid buying lots of extra hardware).
I am aware the Hyperdeck/decklink method is the most stable with the lowest possibilities of having issues.
OBS does have a dedicated "Decklink" output specifically for key and fill outputs, so that isn't an issue. From the video H2R Graphics did, he found out that he had issues with H2R app Key and Fill outputs not syncing up, but when he put the graphics through OBS and did the method I mentioned, there was Zero sync issues.
Using Macros with companion (or some other software) it is fairly easy to trigger sources at the same time (As I have done it in the past with no issue) so syncing isn't a worry, although I would have to avoid animations that involve a lot of transparency or semi-transparency. I would probably have to look at having a separate laptop to run all graphics using OBS though.
It's going to be the luck of the draw if the two outputs stay in sync. Half of the time they'll be okay, half of the time they'll be a frame off.
ATEM Software NEW VERSION PROVIDE PLEASE SIR
Hi. I have been looking at your videos and they have saved me a lot of headache. I just want to know if we need the Hyperdeck to do this. I want to use a separate computer as the control to do this instead. Is this possible?
The reason for this is because although I have a Hyperdeck mini, I haven't been given a network switcher nor additional cabling. Also because I feel it would be easier for getting things setup for new operators etc.
Or I guess in other words, using your computer as a media pool
Look at some software called playoutbee
Doug, great video! I am so glad I came across this. I have a MINI pro but I am interested in an extreme. The only thing I did not like was that it would not play PNG image sequences for Wipes/Stingers. I shoot a lot of sports and tend to need them. I am fairly new to BMD products and I see some other HyperDeck models. Will the cheaper ones do this as well as long as it has 2 outputs? Like the Ulta Studio HD Mini for example?
The hardware is capable, but you'd have to use compatible software that knows how to output separate fill and key, and then find a way to trigger it from a macro or script.
Also, keep in mind that you lose half of your bandwidth when using computer interfaces like that. So if you wanted 59.94 fps output with both fill and key (3G-SDI each), you'd need a device that can do 6G-SDI.
@@djp_video sounds like I might hold off and see if BMD does add the Sting feature or possibly also add NDI through the Network port. This is the only thing holding me back from purchasing one.
I wouldn't count on NDI support from BMD
How do assign that macro to one of the 6 buttons on the item extreme
If you create the macro in one of the first six slots in ATEM Software Control it will be available on those buttons automatically.
hello Doug, nice video. we models atem 1me and atem 2me the stinger transition is available, is it possible to make the transition only with atem ? or do you need the hyperdeck?
The 1 M/E and 2 M/E models can play back two short sequences of images, so if your stingers are short you can do it entirely in the switcher.
@@djp_video thanks for the feedback, if I'm not mistaken they are png sequences up to 180frames right? do you have any teaching material on these models?
The number of frames varies based on the video resolution you're using. And you can split the total number of frames between the two clip stores as you wish.
I don't have any training on this feature.
Shouldn’t it be possible to do the double alpha transition on a regular Mini as well by utilizing the downstream keyer for the graphics/fill (as an overlay) and the upstream keyer for the transition between the sources?
Yes, but since you’d need three inputs for the graphics and two keys you would only have one input left, leaving you no second source to transition to.
@@djp_video Hahaha right! Color bars 😂
Can I use a Blackmagic UltraStudio 4K Mini instead of the Hyperdeck?
If you can figure out a way to trigger playback when you want to perform the transition, yes.
Thanks dough for the all the insight.
I want to ask,
the new HyperDeck Studio HD Mini no longer have the dual SDI out.
I'm trying to creating a 4k 30 recording step with the atem extreem iso,
if i do pick the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus,
Do you think I can mix the output with the HDMI and the SDI B (converted to hdmi) for the same effect?
I ask ask beacuse buying 2, 4k 30 SDI to HDMI converters (195 per) and the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus(695), just to get transitions is quite steep.
Any insight is much appreciated!
Just so we're on the same page, the ATEM Mini Extreme doesn't do 4K. Neither does the HyperDeck Studio Mini HD. The ATEM Minis max out at 1080p60. None do 4K.
The HyperDeck Studio Mini HD does not support separate Fill/Key at all. The minimum product for that feature from Blackmagic is the HyperDeck Studio HD Plus, but it will only do it in HD, not 4K. The HyperDeck Studio Plus will play (or record) 4K30, but not with an alpha channel (separate fill/key) -- when there is an alpha channel it is limited to HD resolutions. As you've noticed, the recorders that support alpha channels output those channels on SDI, not HDMI, so you'd need to do conversion to HDMI if you want to do this with the ATEM Mini, as I did in this video. The Micro converters will work just fine for this -- you don't have to get the 4K/6G Mini converters.
If you need to do 4K with alpha transparency, the minimum recorder you'd need is the HyperDeck Studio 4K Pro, and minimum switcher would be the Production Studio 4K.
@@djp_video Thank for the details.
Just to clarify...
given that I pick up HyperDeck Studio 4k Pro.
can I use the HDMI out as my fill
and the SDI out "B" as my key.
so that I don't have to by 2 sdi to hdmi converters ?
Why is it called a sting
I'm not sure
Jeez! Not only am I almost $ 1000 further with all the additional equipment needed just to have a stinger, that weird sequence of illogical steps and endless button pushing makes me regret I didn't buy a Roland or other switcher. Perhaps I will sell it and dive deeper into OBS.
You'll find that nearly all solutions are just as complicated.
Can't this be done with macro on the atem mini(pro)? Put a lot of images in the mediapool and call them in a macro cycle ? edit: Yep it can be done on any atem mini without adding hardware and with some limitations. Here I found a guy explaining: th-cam.com/video/aQzW15dU0Fg/w-d-xo.html
I don’t know that you’d be able to get them to play back smoothly.
@@djp_video With only 20 frames it will be short or less smooth but It saves a lot of money and setup. So call it a "poorman's stinger" :)
Yeah, I understand why you'd do it, and how it would work. I'm just not sure if triggering that many frames back-to-back in a macro would run smoothly or not. I haven't tried it.
It was kind of a promising video until you mentioned and brought another device to the picture so you either need one of the more expensive ATEM devices or the other device you showed so I just passed and went away
Since the ATEM Minis don’t have any built-in video playback capability they need some help to pull off a stinger.