When he said that these stabilizing relationships kind of have to come from depression because the person has to have given up in order to accept that they’re never going to have that all consuming love they were looking for, woah. That’s exactly how it feels, and I’ve never heard someone articulate it before. Like settling for the grey is the best I can hope for if I want stability in my life.
Don't know about you but I thought this was just a me thing... Forever wondering if I'm just forever being let down and haven't quite met the right one or maybe that person to give all I feel I give and need doesn't exist, doomed to be forever unfulfilled romantic relationship wise or else if its instead the case that I'M the problem for having what could/should be considered unrealistic expectations.. Couldn't believe this video or that it could be just the BPD 🥺
I feel like for myself atleast, I’ve seen all these idealistic relationships in movies or shows where everything’s always green and rainbows and happiness and because I don’t know exactly how other people feel, I’ve damned myself to say that if *MY* relationship isn’t like that, I’m not doing enough. I’m not ready for a relationship again yet. I haven’t overcome that fear of loneliness I haven’t overcome that fear of abandonment. I’ve gotten better, yes. But I’m not ready.
ask yourself: what am I TRULY looking for in a relationship? Can - realistically - another human being give me all of that? Constantly? At every time of the day? Realistically! Could YOU give that ANY time of the day under ANY circumstances? We humans don't have unlimited energy capacity. We have LIMITED ressources. It is very important to embrace that fact. For yourself also. It is the beginning of self-love because you start to see yourself REALISTICALLY and not idealistically. Is it possible to experience true, deep Love and having truly DEEPLY fullfilling relationships? Yes. It is our nature and our birth right to have those. But in order to have them we have to let go of many attachments, illusions and conditionings and RELAX (keyword!). That's where the work starts.
I was lucky. struggled for a decade with BPD, not knowing what it was. Another five years with the knowledge of it. I can say that my husband, over those five years, saved my life. truly a corrective relationship. thick skin and a love so deep that he never let my BPD destroy him. In time as I learned with a caring and loving support system, I can say I'm so much better but ill never stop learning. I come back to these Borderline notes every 5-6 months, just to make sure I remember what I'm striving too achieve.
Thanks for your story of personal experience. My daughter was married to the opposite for over 25 years and is just escaping his grasp! Nice to hear it’s possible to find a good relationship that’s a loving healer! 💪👍🤗
You giving me hope, I just learned recently about my own nature and how it affected me living with undiagnose BPD around me and learning it years after. But you're the proof that it IS possible with my family and loved one.
When we married rushed, in typical borderline style, he was already an alcoholic although I dismissed it as being a result of his previous failed marriage. I wasn't thick skinned, the devaluation n abuse hurt, but I endured. Up until he became neglectful emotionally, sexually abusive and extremely controlling. Would repeatedly threaten to leave, leave n disrupt our lives, fight even if I refused him sex, which wasn't often. As sole earner, he was careless, even reckless with his finances, spent more time with his friends, drinking than with me. For my sanity I had to go grey rock, didn't care anymore about what he did, with whom or how he spent his money. The relationship quickly went south, with me hating on him till he finally left with his new supply, someone who's helping him promote his grandiosity ( Narcissistic ). I feel pained, that I wasn't able to offer that corrective relationship, but in reality, could I ?
My wife has bpd and we have been together for 12 years, every day is a new struggle. I love her with a burning passion and will never give up on her. Some days are harder than others, I still struggle with accepting the reality of her challenges. She is an incredible human who has endured a horrific abusive childhood, compounded by rural poverty and addiction.
Jeff as someone who has BPD/cptsd & married to my hb for almost 24yrs, I can tell u she ❤’s u yet some days gets angry because she’s fearful. Sometimes getting too close is a trigger. Her rage is fear. We’re just waiting for you to finally leave us. That’ll tell our disease & anxiety that we were right along. People that say they love us really don’t. It’s all been an act. My hb has been my rock. He has thick skin, knows when I’m ungrounded. Don’t give up… we love and want to please everyone but ourselves. We spread ourselves too thin thinking if we keep moving we won’t have to feel the pain yet we run until we’re exhausted. It’s hard for us to ask for help or admit we can’t do it all. Sending yall ❤
How are the children faring? Post my hb of 25 yrs leaving, my daughters didn't want him to return. Like me they're severely traumatized, cPTSD with his toxic behaviour, the constant fighting, threats to leave, packing suitcases, leaving, returning, blowing hot n cold, being emotionally absent, very controlling, drinking, reckless spending,....
I agree, but I would honestly take it a step further. Self-validation. Self-authenticity. Because for the first, no one can validate me as well or as often as I can. And for the second, if I am sure I'm being authentic, if I know how to be real with myself (always the self first) and my partner, then I can be much more assured that I won't fly off the handle after pretending everything is okay for however long - only to find it's not. Because when I'm not okay, then "everything" is not okay. But when I'm okay, then I can handle the world without falling apart. ❤❤❤ Hope this helps someone.
As someone who endured 3 years of never ending upheaval and abuse, for anyone who is in a relationship with someone with BPD - don't stop listening to your emotions and endlessly self sacrifice to make them feel safe. If you are over your limit, save yourself because you are no good to them anyway if you are wrecked.
As a man that’s been diagnosed with BPD multiple times, having my son saved my life so hearing him mention having children helps was very surprising but makes all the sense.
I'm so saddened that having lost 2 children in his first divorce, my estranged husband of 25 yrs, chose to leave his 2 children with me and go off with his new supply just to promote his Narcissistic grandiosity. Despite his personality disorder, I raised them to respect and obey him as their father. At his 50th birthday party, he never even looked in our direction, leave alone appreciate us in his life. Sadly his eldest, then only 14 caught him cheating/sexting so he cut her off emotionally, blaming her for breaking up his marriage. The marriage was already dead. The younger one was still at home when he left and he actually texted her to say that he's moving on with his soulmate from the turbulent life with her mother. His behavior had brought out the narcissistic side in me, as self preservation
I am sorry for your struggle and I hope your son got help too. borderline parents must NOT rely on kids to save them. that is parentification and it is abusive
@@HomeFromFarAwayto be sure, parentification is abusive. I would know. I was put through something similar (be my dad's partner, another adult, rather than myself, a little kid). But as someone with BPD who finally, at 33, decided to have a kid, I will tell you the truth. I am not looking for a parent. I am reparenting myself as I write this. I am looking for someone who can love me unconditionally - but MORE important, someone I can love unconditionally. Someone to allow my childhood self to separate from a toxic relationship with a single parent and feel truly validated for having that unconditional love for another. That feeling of love is something that all BPD sufferers struggle to find. And I love others deeply, but they're always too broken to love me back. So I love my son. Is he a child? YES. Will I always remember that? YES. So to make a blanket statement that BPD in parents causes an abusive parentification relationship with the child is, to my mind, faulty. Please try to see it from the other perspective. Or just remember that not everyone with a mental instability/illness is going to be and live the same. ❤
I know a BPD guy who spends hours a day with his son, i thought it was very strange at first, but now i realize from this video that the son serves as a corrective and stabilizing figure for him. I hope the son isn't affected by it though.
@@Bubbles-od2tv parentification is damaging. I think having a wildly disregulated parent is more damaging, but being reaponsible for regulating an adult is definitely going to leave a permanent mark on any child
Struggled with bpd since my teens, after lots of turbulence between me and my family/parents, toxic ex narcissistic exes. I really learned to help myself and reparent myself. After multiple attempts at meeting new people and learning to have standards and be a healthier person with everyone I interact with including myself, I can honestly say that I have healthier relationships now. I had to put up serious boundaries when it came to my parents. And learn to have standards on what kind of behaviours I’ll accept from others. People with Bpd are often demonized when often times, we accept awful behaviour put on us because we have an “illness”. We deserve to be respected and loved, not treated badly and accepting the bare minimum. ❤❤❤
What's the common denominator with BPD? Is it our childhood? My father died a violent death when I was 4 and my mother was emotionally absent, it was very hard because she drank a lot, do people develop this personality disorder because we have no validation as children? Or because we have to grow up early? I'd love to know why.
@@alexmajaxfor me I had both parents who are even loving yet I also never felt safe enough because of things in the past they would do that would make me not want to be emotionally vulnerable because of how they would respond and invalidate my emotions, also my environment like school was very toxic and I began seeing everyone to not trust except my parents even though I didn’t trust them fully either.
I think it is parents being emotionally distant and unavailable. Not even necessarily abusive. Because BPD to me, in my life, is caused by a parent who was loving in some ways, but also very much wasn't there for me. I felt I always needed to hide my emotions, and I also always felt like I had to support him emotionally rather than the other way around. And that made me so ANGRY. So very angry.... No child should have to deal with emotionally unavailable parents.
@@Dani-r1s There's a common thing here, we all had parents who weren't really there for us, and we felt vulnerable, I remember picking my mother up off the ground when I was 8, there was no way she could protect me.
I wish with my whole being that ours could have been the corrective relationship my now ex borderline wife needed. She discarded and deserted me, but I would have remained devoted, supporting, and loving for the rest of our lives if she just would have let me. The pain of being betrayed and abandoned by the person I loved and trusted most in this world has utterly shattered me, and I don't know if I can make it through.
I feel you mate. My one told me they had self-control and wouldn't abandone me, lesson learned. Currently in a new relationship and I feel so much more able to trust this person, but I'm still picking myself up from the devastation of the ex-wbpd. We'll get through it.
I’ve been following so many other BPD experts and some not so much - self styled BOD experts for a few years and just came across Dr. Gunderson recently. He seems to know so much more than most. He makes so much sense. So sad to hear he left us in Jan ‘19 due to an illness. 💔😭
child cannot leave if you treat them with disrespect and child doesn't talk back. Child is totally dependent on you. This can give finally a feeling of stability to a BP I guess. Problem is, if this was your sexual partner behaving like a completely dependent child, you would disrespect them even more and they'd become a burden to you. So this doesn't work that way. You have to consider: Do you want a partner with good boundaries who talks back, which creates a feeling of separateness but at the same time attraction and respect? This can in the long run actually create a sense of stability if they endure the time of enormous insecurities, anger, nervous breakdowns, bottomless sadness, hopelessness and devaluation on the side of the BP, if they stay (which few are able to)! Or do I want a co-dependent, totally agreeable partner, who you cannot truly respect but they will never leave you no matter how you treat them?
I was that completely dependent sexual partner for more than a decade. He would threaten to leave or disrupt our lives if I even refused him sex, Indeed children cannot talk back - he did this to my younger child, 16 even finally texting her to say he was moving on from turbulent life with her mother with his soulmate. She finally can talk back and she doesn't want him back. She's so traumatized
I hear you and understand your reasoning but for me personally I prefer the latter only because it works for me. My wife is the only person in my life who is a totally agreeable person with me and we have had the most peace of any relationship I have been in. She makes me want to treat her with kindness and being with her is the reason I watch videos like these so that I can treat her with the respect she deserves. Every other partner fought back, cheated on me and stood up to me and those relationships failed miserably. I guess it is not black and white and what works for some doesn't work for others. All I know, in all my life, I feel that my wife is the only person who has ever loved me. I'm grateful because there are times that I have tried my hardest to push her away and she never left. That has given me the most stability I have ever had. All the while, I still have fear that one day she will leave.
This is actually really unfair. Of course you'd prefer someone agreeable. The people that stood up or fought back knew that the destructive symptoms and behavior of your bpd can't and won't slide. It's an act of love when you call out someone on their bad behavior instead of letting it slide, because you love the person so much you want them to grow. If you have someone agreeable, there's no challenge. This was the problem with my ex. Him having a problem with us "constantly fighting" because I didn't let him demean or mistreat me. Now he's gone back to his ex not even a month after our breakup and had absolutely no remorse when i confronted him (the same girl he cheated on me with and went to therapy over). He prefers her because she let's him do anything and listens to whatever he says to do. I was tired like him, but it shouldn't have been like pulling teeth for him to help build emotional security. I loved him fiercely, but I love someone too much to walk all over me because they're sick. It's a cop-out. If I took the route of being "agreeable", I would have lost myself completely. Nobody likes fighting, but no sane person likes to be disrespected or abused either. I hope this isn't what you were talking about.
For me, my corrective relationship has been with God. I’m really amazed at that because I didn’t see it for myself 2 years ago or less. But after years of failed relationships and trauma (romantic or otherwise), He was the only person left who had any opportunity of helping me in the all-encompassing way that I needed. Always being by my side, loving me no matter what, wanting better for me, “taking my calls” no matter the time of day so to speak. The church were like His relatives that took care of me when He wasn’t able to in ways that humans need, like hugs and community outreach. And because of this relationship with unwavering love, I have been able to learn how to better love both others and myself.
I have also found the struggles jesus took on ,as well as was destined to take on ( let's see truth here jesus came about from a blessed union but a broken family god stated Joseph was in a way a step dad a good and righteous man ,) his treatment from the world and society he was an outcast his family was homeless he thought for a long while (many times over he questioned his purpose his origin ,) asking his own father had he abandoned him 😢 he felt that pain also ,being pushed being tested ,always made an impact on my personal emotions so true an indesipherable story to so many many ppl that they turn away ,say it's bullshit , ridiculous , impossible etc etc ,I strongly disagree I'm connected as a child to the films of his life and crucifixion that I only really understood on an emotional level ,how much he was persecuted ,I forged a relationship with god thru reading and thru personal connections with Christian ppl .GOD HAS WALKED THRU THE VALLEY OF DEATH WITH ME AND TOLD ME THE WAY OUT many times and gives me every opportunity to learn and see what I am responsible for and also that I have a purpose and I will find fulfilment in his love and his explanations .A lifetime of learning at our hands ,there is absolutely nothing that GOD cannot understand regarding his children's behaviours and how others and the world condems us, so as highly attuned highly sensitive and highly emotional neglected and abused children ,our heavenly father is always the father we really need and should seek to honour and behold,to obey and slightly fear yes , he will teach us discipline everlasting love commitment, HIS he will never leave us ,a heart that has gratitude for even experiencing his presence and in our crumby attempts to serve him 😊us ,jesus disciples ,the dicilplined ones ...and the end of his story IS HIS RESURECTION ,and not the punishment on the cross ,this has a profound effect on our understanding of pain and suffering is that we will get thru it all ,we have been robbed of the great truth in this story,the resurrection is the whole point that god is telling us ,you,ll live kiddo ,your gonna be more than ok .
you do realize that using god as an imaginary father figure in order to regulate your emotions is actually pushing the problem away onto another plane.
As the child of a mother with BPD, I suffered a lot of non-intentional abuse and my whole life has been impacted deeply. I do not think BPDs should use their children to get better, it only traumatizes the children and only slightly improves the BPD. I would even go so far as saying that anyone with BPD should seriously consider not having children. Even with the best of intentions and lots of love, having BPD ruins your child's emotional growth, leads to PTSD, and prevents them from learning how to have good relationships. You basically handicap your own offspring.
thank you for your comment! I have a child with a BPD man, i am wondering what the best solution is. He is not home much, and cannot be burdend with anything, but brings child to scool, sometimes stressfull bec. of outbursts...the most of time i am with kids... i dont want that my child gets traumatized... Do you think it is better to not live together with BPD-parent?
I have no diagnosis but I know emotional instability and was suffering from it most of my life. Marrying and trying to make it work has helped me apart from therapy, reading about personality disorders and learning some DBT (very effective) + choosing to heal, take my life in my own hands etc. ... My cats and husband are my stabilizers. Still I learned my emotion regulation is my own responsibility and it's better that way. Yes it was through depression because it didn't work how I hoped. It was through seeing how much I wanted others to do everything for me. But who can do it but me? Who can save me but me? Who knows best how to love me... but me? It's nice when someone co-regulates but it's ultimately not feeling that good to be so dependent. I don't want that anymore. It's emotionally unsafe and I was never aware of it until some weeks ago. I let others off the hook to live their own life. Some things will be the way I want them, some won't - it's all okay! Let there be real life! I gladly take on life's work. I feel I now largely understand this finally at 40. And am looking forward to many more stable and self regulated years.
Thank you so much for sharing this! I totally appreciate it! You filled my heart with joy. I was thrown into cluster B…told I’m impulsive…told I have a mood disorder…I kept co-regulating. My partner of 12 years finally had enough…how sad it is to wake up from this brutal apocalypse initiated by this destructive version of you - a rather wounded version of you which has wreaked havoc on your entire life without your consent! The realization that you can recover from this - once awareness sets in is extremely liberating….
So very adeptly put!! I love how you keep referring back to your own need to support yourself emotionally, rather than always relying on someone else (often the people who we love and who love us, but who are also human beings and can't*always* be there for us) for external validation - which, yeah, I totally agree, never feels as good anyway. I think we have suffered from a lack of self love as children, and so never learned how to be stable and Love ourselves. Good job!!!! You are moving forward into true healing. May Great Spirit help you hold yourself up and hold yourself accountable through your journey. --from a fellow self-love-healer ❤❤❤
I feel like I'm going into one of these rn, it's so different this time and guess what...we both have BPD. So being understood and supported and having someone who's been on a similar path and has no stigma towards me at all is really nice. Definitely makes me feel like I'm not so terrible after all.
Then again, I don't feel like I've had to give up anything at all. Is that an issue? It's just that when you get your needs met the right way, it's much easier to stay objective and reasonable with your expectations. I feel like the neglect I was faced with many times was the reason for my greed and splitting and enmeshment etc in order to compensate? Bc I was trying to be understood and loved by those who couldn't. Just the wrong ones. I did give up the wrong ones.
Happy for you truly. Your feeling of wanting to not feel terrible is legitimate and understandable. There is several profile of people that can live with BPD each one with their own set of rules, for me it was hell I grown with BPD and before I only suffered from it like everyone else, but now I learned what it is, about the partner suffering, everything that was confusing make sense. So it's easier to let go and not take things personnaly, easier to protect my own emotions to be able to stay a beacon in the storm and by extension easier to be compasionate. Two BPD is not common but I can understand the feeling of finally being understood without needing to translate.@@sanya3398
I really wish I could afford to see this guy as he's been one of the few to describe succinctly the internal experience over years and years without being too heavy handed or gentle about it. I want to reach that level of stability and resilience others have godgiven, but it's sometimes as hard as being hit with a hammer and not wincing or reacting with pain. No one wants to be weak or sensitive, but it's something I can't seem to muffle or stop doing. I see my daughter starting to do the same.
You need to heal your inner child. Self healing is a possibility. Help your child also. Check out Marty Glenn, Kelly Armatage n ors. Crappy childhood fairy will teach you the art n science of journaling, meditation. Practice trauma release exercises, trauma informed yoga. You'll be ok, your child too
I will never trust a therapist again. My first psychiatrist let me with an SMS "I won't I've told everything to my collegues". Now I know that maybe one fine day I will find another therapist, or another psychiatrist, and I will have to adjust. I am alone in this journey.
I went to a " therapist" after I was attacked. His form of therapy was to have me stand up and say no and shoot a ball of energy i imagined ass a boundary forming excercise. Then he kept stepping towards me and then he assaulted me by kissing me. And I had not done the excercise correctly aparently that's why ... wtf? So needless to say I do not trust them either. I also had one woman who just kept saying omg that's aweful over and over and nothing else. Just my life is aweful. Really not helpful. I dont trust anyone but I do trust myself. And whether I am right or wrong I will find my own way through with my own indistinct and at least I will not lean on somone who let's me fall and bang my head. I would literally never do a trust fall. I have my own two feet. I find random people are more helpful when they are just hsaring their stories and solutions they've found helpful for them that I can try but at least it is peer to peer and not a position where somone is in authority over me. Somone who can sign you into a mental hospital if they wanted to. So I do not blame you. Trust no one is my motto. But lots of people are helpful and lots of things I've found in random youtube have been helpful too. I was actually doing a lot of things I " invented for myself that I found out later are therapies. Like body shaking. And singing and chanting and stuff weird shit I'd do in the bath to let emotions out of myself. I know people whove bene in therapy for years who speak about themslves like they don't know their own minds. My therapist thinks I need to.... my therapist says I do that because. I'm like id rsther be mentally ill than deal eith that.
I’m not at all sure that this wish or belief in a long-term, gratifying, trustworthy, permanent relationship is unique to BPDs. This is a very typical Northern European and northern American fantasy that we are taught in childhood, not only by our parents, our peers, but by the books that we read, the movies that we watch, and worst of all Walt Disney. This is very much part of the American mythos in value system. One could certainly argue that it is a pathology, but that is a cultural pathology again, not unique to borderline personality or any cluster B
I get your point, most people do have a certain desire/belief that is culturally reinforced for sure from external sources regarding relationships, but respectfully, what he is talking about here is much deeper than the existing typical wish or belief that a typical person generally has regarding relationships; Unique to BPD individuals and pertaining to a unique psychological process internally to BPD individuals... As in managing to attain this sort of relationship, inwardly heals and "corrects" things like the deep rooted 'Core Beliefs' of BPD persons in the most fundamental areas, especially the areas most in need of healing/correction for BPD individuals specifically; regarding themselves, others, the world and their place in it, their own ideas/experiences of relationships typically first formed through caregivers (negatively) etc, staple affecting aspects of BPD regarding interpersonal effectiveness, social relations, self vs others etc, these are the areas able to be corrected and healed indirectly from the sort of relationships he describes above/role fulfilled in turn. I'd say your point definitely stands for in general for sure but this isn't a video regarding in general or general people, and only with an understanding of BPD either yourself or as a trained practitioner, you and others would understand that in this case he is on about things different to what it would seem on surface as you have mentioned, he is on about things of a much deeper psychological level and with deeper effects in regards to BPD individuals specifically and uniquely 🙂
he is not discussing this though. He is not talking about a longing for a stable relationship, he's talking about gaining the ability to have one without being emotionally reactive to small things.
Some people think than some of these desorder are not pathologies (since is not a genetical or infectious issue), but a series of behaviour mechanisms learned during childhood that causes dissatisfaction during adolescence and adulthood, so the cultural factors are always present, I guess that each society may present certain disorders when a member doesn't met certain social aspirations. Anyways, as far as I know, in bpd, the long-term relationship desire is not necessarily about a couple (which is what is typicaly portrayed in the media) but can be a friend, or a trusted family member (but this last is hard because mostly bpd arises within a lack of trust in the family)
My exBPD was obsessed with Disney. He was always trying to create this perfect idealized life that could never exist. Absorbing that media when you’re young and not having secure attachments can make you attach to that fantasy as a reality, to self regulate emotions. Which can carry into adulthood.
Ideally speaking, I believe, what we don't need at the beginning of our treatments is unavailability. We have to have help managing our crisis. Yeah, we need to be independent. But there´s a time and a place for everything, like, ideally speaking.
I have BPD. Coming from a very unstable home with an abusive narcissistic Mother. Despite years of therapy, I still find the pain can be excruciating. I really tried with DBT but it triggered me badly. If you happen to read this, can you suggest / recommend any other treatment modality? And, I had to self diagnose. Finally found a psychotherapist who diagnosed me with CPTSD. I will do whatever it takes to go into remission 🤷🏻♀️
I knew something was wrong since my teens but never knew what it was. I went to a psychologist in my late 20's, they got close but didn't diagnose BPD. Heck, I literally didn't understand what borderline meant until this year and I'm 58! However, I'm one of the lucky one's I plotted for years to retire early and even though I went through hell I managed to retire on my 42nd birthday. The last 16 years have been much, much better but I've definitely found out most people have some variation of personality disorders. I'll say 75% of EVERYBODY are at least alcohol/drug/food addicts in order to cope with their internal problems and very few of the remaining 25% have a clue they're dysfunctional. Don't just think it's you that has a disorder it really is everybody else.
I realized this at 30 ! All the healthy partners were picked by 30. It took me years to get super healthy,strong,! I started dating & couldn't believe the amount of men that were seriously damaged, dangerous. I finally felt the danger because I was in my cocoon of healing. So I got a dog! Lol. I have my hobbies, but it's Soo odd, feeling. Like water water everywhere but not a drop to drink. Rather be alone & sane than dating & in dangerous waters. 🕊️💙
@@pamspencer5733 It's funny you say this I remember in my mid 30's a friend of mine trying to point out prospective partners and I dismissively waved my hand "the good ones are already taken".
@@SladeBling The good ones (especially men) are truly already taken, the ones left over who are over 50 have personality disorders and are really tough to have a relationship with. If there's one thing i regret, it's that i didn't make getting married a priority in my early 20s. The good loving men would have. still been around.
@@Bubbles-od2tv I can certainly understand your viewpoint, my isn't much different. I also have fond memories of dating in my 20's, so much more real and exciting. In my case, once I turned 30 or 31 I realized the dating pool was vastly reduced to where it was really pointless to even try. I even miss the good ole' days of getting my heart broken!
As someone in the field of mental health, Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) often feels elusive and complex, with even the top specialists offering similar explanations or slight variations. However, the more I study it, the more it resembles trauma-an external shock that fundamentally alters one's psychological wiring. Like complex PTSD (CPTSD), BPD can be understood as an epigenetic phenomenon, where a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental factors reshape who you are at a deep level. In this light, many individuals with BPD grow up with a pervasive sense of being inherently flawed. Having someone who offers unconditional love and radical acceptance can be profoundly therapeutic. Therapists can and should provide this, which is why transference-based therapy is often used. In many cases of BPD I've encountered, individuals are often in relationships with someone who both cares for them and, at times, contributes to their distress.
Idk,thats a big onus put onto a freaking child to be a therapist for a parent. and if the child goes to college, as I did, he viewed it as "abandonment" and got worse not better. Now he harms my sibling and is an emotional vampire so it doesnt generalize
It manifested because you suffered childhood trauma and / or generational trauma. Essentially you were magnet for Narcissistic abuse, like me I'm not BPD, but was sexually abused as child and raised by mildly Narcissistic, neglectful parents. HSP too You need to heal your inner child. Self healing is a possibility. Check out Marty Glenn, Kelly Armatage. Also online DBT, TRE, Trauma informed yoga.
I guess I can't try to correct my disorder feeling from having a kid. I tried taking care of other people's kids, sometimes I stared at them, a strange feeling appeared on my mind, I started to dissociate from the site. Sometimes I feel moved by kids' purity and honesty and their ability to build up an intimate relationship with anything. But I am also very sure that I would be hurt by that. Also, I think I should avoid the tendency that the video indicates, that I can get cured from a relationship. Don't expect from that, you can never imagine how much a stranger who somehow becomes your mate can hurt you. So I've chosen to turn to counsellor, I'd rather stable grey.
Counselors can help but they're still human. We have to remember and re-learn (or more often learn for the first time) how to love ourselves. We can support ourselves the best. And externalizing everything always feeds into black and white thinking for me. If I internalize it, and remind myself that person is just another person and not my fault or my condemnation, I can come back around to the POWER that I have to fix myself. Calm myself. Make myself happy. First comes learning to let go of some of the dark. Then we can learn how to heal ourselves, slowly but surely. Check out Donna Eden. She's amazing.
In their healthier state of mind, yes. In the darkest moments, not so much. But that's true of all darkness, whether it's depression, anxiety, or what have you.
I havent ever had therapy for this, but definitely have it. other therapy has been a waste. Now I avoid making friendships. I could, have many friends I'm in a wonderful AA group. I'm 67 now and feel so so self conscious and different. like they don't really want to be my friend. but many of them like me, even love me. this feeling trapped inside myself is sad. Do other borderlines feel that?
@@thesorrow88 What has finishing University got to do with it lmao, having mental illness does not prevent folks from obtaining degrees and completing higher levels of education 🙃 Its a Personality disorder, not a Dunce disorder. How irrelevant Sidenote: whilst I imagine most therapists aren't generally problematic or unsavoury to deal with; doesn't change the fact that therapists are still human too, and in that can also have potential to be generally nice/grumpy/genuinely caring/uncaring/crappy person in general, like literally anyone can 👍 can say that for any profession
From my perspective, the depression associated with the host of menial relationships substituting for the singular, all encompassing, ideal relationship stems from the realization that the perfection we seek is not attainable and that we must settle for what is less than ideal. For me I came to the realization one day that no single individual can always be there for you exactly the way you need it, exactly when you need them, for the entire duration that you need them. No one can be your personal Jesus, your private superman, your exclusive wish fulfillment machine. If for no other reason than the fact that you, yourself, cannot possibly become that for anyone else. We are creatures of a finite existence with finite capabilities. That realization is depressing only because it pulls us from the world of 'what ought to be,' and firmly grounds us in 'what is.' It's an existential crisis and we're left scrambling to come to terms with the irrefutable truth of it.
many borderline people have kids and expect that supply of perfect relationship to continue for the life of the child. That's all kinds of wrong when it leads to parentification and other toxic behaviours. Get better before making babies, please?
And just so we're clear, my inordinant fear of being unloved was turned on its head when I had my son. He is my reason for loving. I love him forever, and I know he's his own person. He won't always love me. But knowing I can be that love for someone without it backfiring is a tremendous relief. That's all I ever really wanted. The fact that he's alive and breathing, is validation enough for me. The fact that I can laugh with him and share fun times is invaluable to my mental health. I am loved because I love him. Period. No need to question. My love is boundless and endless, and as long as I can give that love to him in some regard, he will always know I love him. That's what matters to me.
Bipolar individuals are highly optimistic and creative but feel that their choices must by approved of by those who fear competition, a narcissistic parent who always told them they cannot, so they think society must approve of their independent creative ability. They sort of bow to the narcissist but don't bow at the same time. The 2 Bipolars are, the narcissistic mother bipolar individual, who then creates physical solutions for her approval(Kanye West) and the narcissistic father bipolar, who studies to become a genius for dad's approval. The best remedy for a bipolar individual is to start controlling their own basic needs, from food, to shelter, to strength, health and fitness. Bipolar disorder uniquely allows the sufferer to form creative logic and ability much faster than other people, but only to try and redeem their narcissistic parent. That is why the bipolar individual creates masterful work but doesn't approve of it themselves, because their narcissistic parent might disapprove of it, in their heads they believe this.
Be a rock. Understand they need other relationships perhaps to feel secure. Have a child. Hmmm...sounds like everything I had. I am truly blessed. If only I could give the gifts I have received. I don't know that I ever could.
Relationships should be a meeting of relative equals- one's partner shouldn't exist to provide a therapeutic milieu for you. Triple ditto for children- people with BPD should NOT have children.
Disagree. If you're not in a relationship with someone who you feel like can push your to your heights and beyond, it's not a good fit in my mind. And no, partners should never become our therapists. That's why it's illegal for therapists to date, or even really befriend, their clients. But partners will always be the person who gets the brunt of whatever pain, attitude, or issues someone has. And I don't see what he was saying as touting a therapy type relationship with our significant other. Rather, saying that those relationships are the only ones that can teach a bpd person the true meaning of love, that it's unconditional. And he doesn't deny it's hard. ALSO, just because someone has BPD doesn't mean they "should NOT have children." Firstly, who are you to make that statement? Secondly, everyone with BPD is different. Thirdly, it's a disease, not a choice. Would you say someone with MS "should NOT have children"? Or cancer? Or depression? If someone is treating themselves, taking necessary steps of healing, and wants to have a kid, that's their choice. End of rant.
@@Dani-r1s It's so easy to espouse a head-in-the-clouds morality...in the abstract. I've worked with kids who come from families in which either one or both parents have personality disorders, worked with them in residential behavioral health centers. The logical conclusion of your statement implies that you wouldn't have a problem with pedophilic adults having children, right, as long as they had therapists? A lot of people get on the "freedom" bandwagon to do what they want but then jump on society's dole and expects it to care for the problems that their selfish decisions wrought. If the adult/adults with MS were ill to the point that they couldn't properly care for their children...or were soon to be that ill, you bet your life that I'd have no trouble saying that they shouldn't have kids. A physical therapist friend of mine went to a lecture about living with disabilities. Two of the guest speakers were quadriplegics (married) who were looking to have a child together. WTF????
It might also be worth noting that human beings are not mechanisms. Everybody is different and people can also change over time. Some physicians attach this bpd label very quickly, others only do so after rigourous testing and then others are reluctant to attach such labels at all, because they feel they do violence to people. In addition, one might receive a bpd diagnosis one year from one physician but not in five years time from the same physician, or even receive it at all from another physician. At the end of the day, despite the research, there is no definitive 'blood' test to establish 100% whether this disorder definitely exists or not. It's based on the interpretation of a collection of 'traits' divised by men in white coats to prescribe treatment. Also with this, like many diagnoses, there is still a continum; some people are suicidal and cannot function, whereas others are actually quite functional. If you think of depression; a person can have mild reactive depression or black psychotic depression that even sees them institutionslised. I'm just suggesting maybe people take people as they find them and be a bit more open minded as opposed to saying " everyone who got this label is x or why".
I guess I’m confused because in another video where he describes bpd relationships he says bpd’ers look to find a relationships that will fix their problems and end up swallowing the other person up. But here technically he is saying a stable relationship CAN fix a major part of them.
Great question. Have you seen this vid about narcissism being a sort of defense against an underlying borderline structure? : th-cam.com/video/DlopY4DfFV4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qbCkXTpeki679Jjy Thanks for the comment! -P
My hb of 25 yrs has left with new supply leaving me to face a barrage of embarrassing questions while he lives out his grandiosity on social media. I'm waiting for that bubble to burst which it will eventually and then he's left with 2 choices. Face the mirror or exit. At 64, the latter is likely.
I’ve become lithromantic as a result of recognizing that I will never have a fulfilling romantic relationship. My genetic and trauma don’t fit into the equation of love. #bpdreality
I feel that for some ppl, Bpd is not the real diagnoses..... I think it’s what These symptoms that people suffer is reaction to childhood trauma .... investigating and healing this trauma is the treatment
@@thesorrow88 I am not saying the symptoms aren’t real , I know the symptoms and suffering are real .... but I am against the label..... these people are suffering because most likely they were hurt .... but instead of helping them figure out this trauma we tell them it’s them , we tell them they are born this way with this personality..... do you think that’s fare or helpful to them .... noooo ...... their are many professionals who share this point of view, see Daniel mackler video on bpd
@@zazo6620 Just wanted to offer an alternate view: as someone who has suffered to find help UNTIL I had an actual BPD diagnosis...(not even on paper, but to hear it come out of my therapists' mouth) has been life changing. Even for myself, personally. Would you rather stay suffering with mystery symptoms or finally have some clarity? I welcomed the label because it provided me with the first concrete place to launch my healing journey. It gave me with so many realizations (like finding an appropriate therapist and why I had to go through 5 before someone would even look at me). I understand what you mean, but for some like me, it's the total opposite! I think when we name things, we can also begin to acknowledge their value (negative and positive) in our lives and act accordingly!
@@zazo6620 I get your point. But I think both can be true: it's a diagnosable personality disorder AND it's created trough childhood trauma. Almost every professional would agree with you that BPD comes from childhood trauma/is a manifestation of your (dysfunctional) coping mechanisms for this trauma. But in order to describe what the person is dealing with and how the person is feeling and acting, we use diagnoses. But sadly there are also people who use the diagnosis to invalidate people, to blame them, for example that they are just born this way and therefore caused problems as a child in the family system, instead of recognizing that they are acting this way due to trauma which the adults are responsible for Ps. I don't think it's right how people got angry and sassy with you (except for Karlen). They just want to feel attacked instead of understanding where you're coming from and instead of respectfully discussing what they disagree about. So don't take it to heart
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When he said that these stabilizing relationships kind of have to come from depression because the person has to have given up in order to accept that they’re never going to have that all consuming love they were looking for, woah. That’s exactly how it feels, and I’ve never heard someone articulate it before. Like settling for the grey is the best I can hope for if I want stability in my life.
I noticed the same, wow we have to settle for the grey like the rest of the people. Not so fun but at least stable
Don't know about you but I thought this was just a me thing... Forever wondering if I'm just forever being let down and haven't quite met the right one or maybe that person to give all I feel I give and need doesn't exist, doomed to be forever unfulfilled romantic relationship wise or else if its instead the case that I'M the problem for having what could/should be considered unrealistic expectations.. Couldn't believe this video or that it could be just the BPD 🥺
I feel like for myself atleast, I’ve seen all these idealistic relationships in movies or shows where everything’s always green and rainbows and happiness and because I don’t know exactly how other people feel, I’ve damned myself to say that if *MY* relationship isn’t like that, I’m not doing enough. I’m not ready for a relationship again yet. I haven’t overcome that fear of loneliness I haven’t overcome that fear of abandonment. I’ve gotten better, yes. But I’m not ready.
ask yourself: what am I TRULY looking for in a relationship? Can - realistically - another human being give me all of that? Constantly? At every time of the day? Realistically! Could YOU give that ANY time of the day under ANY circumstances?
We humans don't have unlimited energy capacity. We have LIMITED ressources. It is very important to embrace that fact. For yourself also. It is the beginning of self-love because you start to see yourself REALISTICALLY and not idealistically.
Is it possible to experience true, deep Love and having truly DEEPLY fullfilling relationships?
Yes.
It is our nature and our birth right to have those.
But in order to have them we have to let go of many attachments, illusions and conditionings and RELAX (keyword!).
That's where the work starts.
Real
I was lucky. struggled for a decade with BPD, not knowing what it was. Another five years with the knowledge of it. I can say that my husband, over those five years, saved my life. truly a corrective relationship. thick skin and a love so deep that he never let my BPD destroy him. In time as I learned with a caring and loving support system, I can say I'm so much better but ill never stop learning. I come back to these Borderline notes every 5-6 months, just to make sure I remember what I'm striving too achieve.
Awww
Thanks for your story of personal experience. My daughter was married to the opposite for over 25 years and is just escaping his grasp! Nice to hear it’s possible to find a good relationship that’s a loving healer! 💪👍🤗
More power to you
You giving me hope, I just learned recently about my own nature and how it affected me living with undiagnose BPD around me and learning it years after.
But you're the proof that it IS possible with my family and loved one.
When we married rushed, in typical borderline style, he was already an alcoholic although I dismissed it as being a result of his previous failed marriage. I wasn't thick skinned, the devaluation n abuse hurt, but I endured. Up until he became neglectful emotionally, sexually abusive and extremely controlling. Would repeatedly threaten to leave, leave n disrupt our lives, fight even if I refused him sex, which wasn't often. As sole earner, he was careless, even reckless with his finances, spent more time with his friends, drinking than with me. For my sanity I had to go grey rock, didn't care anymore about what he did, with whom or how he spent his money. The relationship quickly went south, with me hating on him till he finally left with his new supply, someone who's helping him promote his grandiosity ( Narcissistic ). I feel pained, that I wasn't able to offer that corrective relationship, but in reality, could I ?
My wife has bpd and we have been together for 12 years, every day is a new struggle. I love her with a burning passion and will never give up on her.
Some days are harder than others, I still struggle with accepting the reality of her challenges. She is an incredible human who has endured a horrific abusive childhood, compounded by rural poverty and addiction.
Thanks for this. Wishing you both well. -P
Jeff as someone who has BPD/cptsd & married to my hb for almost 24yrs, I can tell u she ❤’s u yet some days gets angry because she’s fearful. Sometimes getting too close is a trigger. Her rage is fear. We’re just waiting for you to finally leave us. That’ll tell our disease & anxiety that we were right along. People that say they love us really don’t. It’s all been an act. My hb has been my rock. He has thick skin, knows when I’m ungrounded. Don’t give up… we love and want to please everyone but ourselves. We spread ourselves too thin thinking if we keep moving we won’t have to feel the pain yet we run until we’re exhausted. It’s hard for us to ask for help or admit we can’t do it all.
Sending yall ❤
How are the children faring? Post my hb of 25 yrs leaving, my daughters didn't want him to return. Like me they're severely traumatized, cPTSD with his toxic behaviour, the constant fighting, threats to leave, packing suitcases, leaving, returning, blowing hot n cold, being emotionally absent, very controlling, drinking, reckless spending,....
@@BorderlinerNotes ♥️
@jeffcollins7684 finding a man like this is like a needle and a haystack. Kudos and your wife is blessed.
I think the breakthrough to BPD is validation and authenticity.
I agree. Why is it so hard for people to validate. It goes a long way
I agree, but I would honestly take it a step further. Self-validation. Self-authenticity. Because for the first, no one can validate me as well or as often as I can. And for the second, if I am sure I'm being authentic, if I know how to be real with myself (always the self first) and my partner, then I can be much more assured that I won't fly off the handle after pretending everything is okay for however long - only to find it's not. Because when I'm not okay, then "everything" is not okay. But when I'm okay, then I can handle the world without falling apart. ❤❤❤ Hope this helps someone.
It is usually a corrective relationship because BPD NEEDS LOVE. It's not a facade... they really really do need corrective love.
As someone who endured 3 years of never ending upheaval and abuse, for anyone who is in a relationship with someone with BPD - don't stop listening to your emotions and endlessly self sacrifice to make them feel safe. If you are over your limit, save yourself because you are no good to them anyway if you are wrecked.
Arent you such a perfect victim.
As a man that’s been diagnosed with BPD multiple times, having my son saved my life so hearing him mention having children helps was very surprising but makes all the sense.
I'm so saddened that having lost 2 children in his first divorce, my estranged husband of 25 yrs, chose to leave his 2 children with me and go off with his new supply just to promote his Narcissistic grandiosity. Despite his personality disorder, I raised them to respect and obey him as their father. At his 50th birthday party, he never even looked in our direction, leave alone appreciate us in his life.
Sadly his eldest, then only 14 caught him cheating/sexting so he cut her off emotionally, blaming her for breaking up his marriage. The marriage was already dead. The younger one was still at home when he left and he actually texted her to say that he's moving on with his soulmate from the turbulent life with her mother. His behavior had brought out the narcissistic side in me, as self preservation
I am sorry for your struggle and I hope your son got help too. borderline parents must NOT rely on kids to save them. that is parentification and it is abusive
@@HomeFromFarAwayto be sure, parentification is abusive. I would know. I was put through something similar (be my dad's partner, another adult, rather than myself, a little kid). But as someone with BPD who finally, at 33, decided to have a kid, I will tell you the truth. I am not looking for a parent. I am reparenting myself as I write this. I am looking for someone who can love me unconditionally - but MORE important, someone I can love unconditionally. Someone to allow my childhood self to separate from a toxic relationship with a single parent and feel truly validated for having that unconditional love for another. That feeling of love is something that all BPD sufferers struggle to find. And I love others deeply, but they're always too broken to love me back. So I love my son. Is he a child? YES. Will I always remember that? YES. So to make a blanket statement that BPD in parents causes an abusive parentification relationship with the child is, to my mind, faulty. Please try to see it from the other perspective. Or just remember that not everyone with a mental instability/illness is going to be and live the same. ❤
I know a BPD guy who spends hours a day with his son, i thought it was very strange at first, but now i realize from this video that the son serves as a corrective and stabilizing figure for him. I hope the son isn't affected by it though.
@@Bubbles-od2tv parentification is damaging. I think having a wildly disregulated parent is more damaging, but being reaponsible for regulating an adult is definitely going to leave a permanent mark on any child
Struggled with bpd since my teens, after lots of turbulence between me and my family/parents, toxic ex narcissistic exes. I really learned to help myself and reparent myself. After multiple attempts at meeting new people and learning to have standards and be a healthier person with everyone I interact with including myself, I can honestly say that I have healthier relationships now. I had to put up serious boundaries when it came to my parents. And learn to have standards on what kind of behaviours I’ll accept from others.
People with Bpd are often demonized when often times, we accept awful behaviour put on us because we have an “illness”. We deserve to be respected and loved, not treated badly and accepting the bare minimum.
❤❤❤
What's the common denominator with BPD? Is it our childhood? My father died a violent death when I was 4 and my mother was emotionally absent, it was very hard because she drank a lot, do people develop this personality disorder because we have no validation as children? Or because we have to grow up early? I'd love to know why.
@@alexmajaxfor me I had both parents who are even loving yet I also never felt safe enough because of things in the past they would do that would make me not want to be emotionally vulnerable because of how they would respond and invalidate my emotions, also my environment like school was very toxic and I began seeing everyone to not trust except my parents even though I didn’t trust them fully either.
I think it is parents being emotionally distant and unavailable. Not even necessarily abusive. Because BPD to me, in my life, is caused by a parent who was loving in some ways, but also very much wasn't there for me. I felt I always needed to hide my emotions, and I also always felt like I had to support him emotionally rather than the other way around. And that made me so ANGRY. So very angry.... No child should have to deal with emotionally unavailable parents.
@@Dani-r1s
There's a common thing here, we all had parents who weren't really there for us, and we felt vulnerable, I remember picking my mother up off the ground when I was 8, there was no way she could protect me.
@@aobaichiko122
what are these things that your parents did in the past that made you feel emotionally vulnerable?
I wish with my whole being that ours could have been the corrective relationship my now ex borderline wife needed. She discarded and deserted me, but I would have remained devoted, supporting, and loving for the rest of our lives if she just would have let me. The pain of being betrayed and abandoned by the person I loved and trusted most in this world has utterly shattered me, and I don't know if I can make it through.
💝
I feel you mate. My one told me they had self-control and wouldn't abandone me, lesson learned.
Currently in a new relationship and I feel so much more able to trust this person, but I'm still picking myself up from the devastation of the ex-wbpd. We'll get through it.
I feel ya. My ex fiance had BPD. I'm trying my best to recover ❤️🩹
Trust me - she cries at night for you. When she wakes up from BPD - it is the most sobering yet painful reality you’ll ever experience.
@@eye-leenloveCan’t agree more.
I’ve been following so many other BPD experts and some not so much - self styled BOD experts for a few years and just came across Dr. Gunderson recently. He seems to know so much more than most. He makes so much sense. So sad to hear he left us in Jan ‘19 due to an illness. 💔😭
child cannot leave if you treat them with disrespect and child doesn't talk back. Child is totally dependent on you. This can give finally a feeling of stability to a BP I guess. Problem is, if this was your sexual partner behaving like a completely dependent child, you would disrespect them even more and they'd become a burden to you. So this doesn't work that way.
You have to consider:
Do you want a partner with good boundaries who talks back, which creates a feeling of separateness but at the same time attraction and respect?
This can in the long run actually create a sense of stability if they endure the time of enormous insecurities, anger, nervous breakdowns, bottomless sadness, hopelessness and devaluation on the side of the BP, if they stay (which few are able to)!
Or do I want a co-dependent, totally agreeable partner, who you cannot truly respect but they will never leave you no matter how you treat them?
I was that completely dependent sexual partner for more than a decade. He would threaten to leave or disrupt our lives if I even refused him sex, Indeed children cannot talk back - he did this to my younger child, 16 even finally texting her to say he was moving on from turbulent life with her mother with his soulmate. She finally can talk back and she doesn't want him back. She's so traumatized
agreed. parentifying a child like this is overtly abusive
I hear you and understand your reasoning but for me personally I prefer the latter only because it works for me. My wife is the only person in my life who is a totally agreeable person with me and we have had the most peace of any relationship I have been in. She makes me want to treat her with kindness and being with her is the reason I watch videos like these so that I can treat her with the respect she deserves. Every other partner fought back, cheated on me and stood up to me and those relationships failed miserably. I guess it is not black and white and what works for some doesn't work for others. All I know, in all my life, I feel that my wife is the only person who has ever loved me. I'm grateful because there are times that I have tried my hardest to push her away and she never left. That has given me the most stability I have ever had. All the while, I still have fear that one day she will leave.
This is actually really unfair. Of course you'd prefer someone agreeable. The people that stood up or fought back knew that the destructive symptoms and behavior of your bpd can't and won't slide. It's an act of love when you call out someone on their bad behavior instead of letting it slide, because you love the person so much you want them to grow. If you have someone agreeable, there's no challenge. This was the problem with my ex. Him having a problem with us "constantly fighting" because I didn't let him demean or mistreat me. Now he's gone back to his ex not even a month after our breakup and had absolutely no remorse when i confronted him (the same girl he cheated on me with and went to therapy over). He prefers her because she let's him do anything and listens to whatever he says to do. I was tired like him, but it shouldn't have been like pulling teeth for him to help build emotional security. I loved him fiercely, but I love someone too much to walk all over me because they're sick. It's a cop-out. If I took the route of being "agreeable", I would have lost myself completely. Nobody likes fighting, but no sane person likes to be disrespected or abused either. I hope this isn't what you were talking about.
@tangokaleidos1926
For me, my corrective relationship has been with God. I’m really amazed at that because I didn’t see it for myself 2 years ago or less. But after years of failed relationships and trauma (romantic or otherwise), He was the only person left who had any opportunity of helping me in the all-encompassing way that I needed. Always being by my side, loving me no matter what, wanting better for me, “taking my calls” no matter the time of day so to speak. The church were like His relatives that took care of me when He wasn’t able to in ways that humans need, like hugs and community outreach. And because of this relationship with unwavering love, I have been able to learn how to better love both others and myself.
Thank you for sharing! How did you recognize he was at your side?
this
I have also found the struggles jesus took on ,as well as was destined to take on ( let's see truth here jesus came about from a blessed union but a broken family god stated Joseph was in a way a step dad a good and righteous man ,) his treatment from the world and society he was an outcast his family was homeless he thought for a long while (many times over he questioned his purpose his origin ,) asking his own father had he abandoned him 😢 he felt that pain also ,being pushed being tested ,always made an impact on my personal emotions so true an indesipherable story to so many many ppl that they turn away ,say it's bullshit , ridiculous , impossible etc etc ,I strongly disagree I'm connected as a child to the films of his life and crucifixion that I only really understood on an emotional level ,how much he was persecuted ,I forged a relationship with god thru reading and thru personal connections with Christian ppl .GOD HAS WALKED THRU THE VALLEY OF DEATH WITH ME AND TOLD ME THE WAY OUT many times and gives me every opportunity to learn and see what I am responsible for and also that I have a purpose and I will find fulfilment in his love and his explanations .A lifetime of learning at our hands ,there is absolutely nothing that GOD cannot understand regarding his children's behaviours and how others and the world condems us, so as highly attuned highly sensitive and highly emotional neglected and abused children ,our heavenly father is always the father we really need and should seek to honour and behold,to obey and slightly fear yes , he will teach us discipline everlasting love commitment, HIS he will never leave us ,a heart that has gratitude for even experiencing his presence and in our crumby attempts to serve him 😊us ,jesus disciples ,the dicilplined ones ...and the end of his story IS HIS RESURECTION ,and not the punishment on the cross ,this has a profound effect on our understanding of pain and suffering is that we will get thru it all ,we have been robbed of the great truth in this story,the resurrection is the whole point that god is telling us ,you,ll live kiddo ,your gonna be more than ok .
Indeed, we are never alone when we open ourselves to God.
you do realize that using god as an imaginary father figure in order to regulate your emotions is actually pushing the problem away onto another plane.
As the child of a mother with BPD, I suffered a lot of non-intentional abuse and my whole life has been impacted deeply. I do not think BPDs should use their children to get better, it only traumatizes the children and only slightly improves the BPD. I would even go so far as saying that anyone with BPD should seriously consider not having children. Even with the best of intentions and lots of love, having BPD ruins your child's emotional growth, leads to PTSD, and prevents them from learning how to have good relationships. You basically handicap your own offspring.
thank you for your comment! I have a child with a BPD man, i am wondering what the best solution is. He is not home much, and cannot be burdend with anything, but brings child to scool, sometimes stressfull bec. of outbursts...the most of time i am with kids... i dont want that my child gets traumatized... Do you think it is better to not live together with BPD-parent?
I have no diagnosis but I know emotional instability and was suffering from it most of my life. Marrying and trying to make it work has helped me apart from therapy, reading about personality disorders and learning some DBT (very effective) + choosing to heal, take my life in my own hands etc. ... My cats and husband are my stabilizers. Still I learned my emotion regulation is my own responsibility and it's better that way. Yes it was through depression because it didn't work how I hoped. It was through seeing how much I wanted others to do everything for me. But who can do it but me? Who can save me but me? Who knows best how to love me... but me? It's nice when someone co-regulates but it's ultimately not feeling that good to be so dependent. I don't want that anymore. It's emotionally unsafe and I was never aware of it until some weeks ago. I let others off the hook to live their own life. Some things will be the way I want them, some won't - it's all okay! Let there be real life! I gladly take on life's work. I feel I now largely understand this finally at 40. And am looking forward to many more stable and self regulated years.
This comment is really helpful and gives me hope for dealing with this. Thank you 🙏
Thank you ❤
Thank you so much for sharing this! I totally appreciate it! You filled my heart with joy. I was thrown into cluster B…told I’m impulsive…told I have a mood disorder…I kept co-regulating. My partner of 12 years finally had enough…how sad it is to wake up from this brutal apocalypse initiated by this destructive version of you - a rather wounded version of you which has wreaked havoc on your entire life without your consent! The realization that you can recover from this - once awareness sets in is extremely liberating….
So very adeptly put!! I love how you keep referring back to your own need to support yourself emotionally, rather than always relying on someone else (often the people who we love and who love us, but who are also human beings and can't*always* be there for us) for external validation - which, yeah, I totally agree, never feels as good anyway. I think we have suffered from a lack of self love as children, and so never learned how to be stable and Love ourselves. Good job!!!! You are moving forward into true healing. May Great Spirit help you hold yourself up and hold yourself accountable through your journey. --from a fellow self-love-healer ❤❤❤
I feel like I'm going into one of these rn, it's so different this time and guess what...we both have BPD. So being understood and supported and having someone who's been on a similar path and has no stigma towards me at all is really nice. Definitely makes me feel like I'm not so terrible after all.
Then again, I don't feel like I've had to give up anything at all. Is that an issue? It's just that when you get your needs met the right way, it's much easier to stay objective and reasonable with your expectations. I feel like the neglect I was faced with many times was the reason for my greed and splitting and enmeshment etc in order to compensate? Bc I was trying to be understood and loved by those who couldn't. Just the wrong ones. I did give up the wrong ones.
@@sanya3398how did it go for you? Did the spark of understanding and love last for both of you? I feel like mine just burn off after a few months
@@sanya3398how is it going 😮
Happy for you truly.
Your feeling of wanting to not feel terrible is legitimate and understandable.
There is several profile of people that can live with BPD each one with their own set of rules, for me it was hell I grown with BPD and before I only suffered from it like everyone else, but now I learned what it is, about the partner suffering, everything that was confusing make sense.
So it's easier to let go and not take things personnaly, easier to protect my own emotions to be able to stay a beacon in the storm and by extension easier to be compasionate.
Two BPD is not common but I can understand the feeling of finally being understood without needing to translate.@@sanya3398
I really wish I could afford to see this guy as he's been one of the few to describe succinctly the internal experience over years and years without being too heavy handed or gentle about it. I want to reach that level of stability and resilience others have godgiven, but it's sometimes as hard as being hit with a hammer and not wincing or reacting with pain. No one wants to be weak or sensitive, but it's something I can't seem to muffle or stop doing. I see my daughter starting to do the same.
I don't think he is living anymore. Google.
You need to heal your inner child. Self healing is a possibility. Help your child also. Check out Marty Glenn, Kelly Armatage n ors. Crappy childhood fairy will teach you the art n science of journaling, meditation. Practice trauma release exercises, trauma informed yoga. You'll be ok, your child too
Terrific way of explaining what can happen in these relationships. Corrective and healing when these relationships work well.
Praise you, my long term partners.... That's amazing
Magical thinking they will fix me and only think of me. They don't have a full caseload.
I will never trust a therapist again. My first psychiatrist let me with an SMS "I won't I've told everything to my collegues". Now I know that maybe one fine day I will find another therapist, or another psychiatrist, and I will have to adjust. I am alone in this journey.
I went to a " therapist" after I was attacked. His form of therapy was to have me stand up and say no and shoot a ball of energy i imagined ass a boundary forming excercise. Then he kept stepping towards me and then he assaulted me by kissing me. And I had not done the excercise correctly aparently that's why ... wtf? So needless to say I do not trust them either. I also had one woman who just kept saying omg that's aweful over and over and nothing else. Just my life is aweful. Really not helpful. I dont trust anyone but I do trust myself. And whether I am right or wrong I will find my own way through with my own indistinct and at least I will not lean on somone who let's me fall and bang my head. I would literally never do a trust fall. I have my own two feet. I find random people are more helpful when they are just hsaring their stories and solutions they've found helpful for them that I can try but at least it is peer to peer and not a position where somone is in authority over me. Somone who can sign you into a mental hospital if they wanted to. So I do not blame you. Trust no one is my motto. But lots of people are helpful and lots of things I've found in random youtube have been helpful too. I was actually doing a lot of things I " invented for myself that I found out later are therapies. Like body shaking. And singing and chanting and stuff weird shit I'd do in the bath to let emotions out of myself. I know people whove bene in therapy for years who speak about themslves like they don't know their own minds. My therapist thinks I need to.... my therapist says I do that because. I'm like id rsther be mentally ill than deal eith that.
I’m not at all sure that this wish or belief in a long-term, gratifying, trustworthy, permanent relationship is unique to BPDs. This is a very typical Northern European and northern American fantasy that we are taught in childhood, not only by our parents, our peers, but by the books that we read, the movies that we watch, and worst of all Walt Disney.
This is very much part of the American mythos in value system. One could certainly argue that it is a pathology, but that is a cultural pathology again, not unique to borderline personality or any cluster B
I get your point, most people do have a certain desire/belief that is culturally reinforced for sure from external sources regarding relationships, but respectfully, what he is talking about here is much deeper than the existing typical wish or belief that a typical person generally has regarding relationships; Unique to BPD individuals and pertaining to a unique psychological process internally to BPD individuals... As in managing to attain this sort of relationship, inwardly heals and "corrects" things like the deep rooted 'Core Beliefs' of BPD persons in the most fundamental areas, especially the areas most in need of healing/correction for BPD individuals specifically; regarding themselves, others, the world and their place in it, their own ideas/experiences of relationships typically first formed through caregivers (negatively) etc, staple affecting aspects of BPD regarding interpersonal effectiveness, social relations, self vs others etc, these are the areas able to be corrected and healed indirectly from the sort of relationships he describes above/role fulfilled in turn. I'd say your point definitely stands for in general for sure but this isn't a video regarding in general or general people, and only with an understanding of BPD either yourself or as a trained practitioner, you and others would understand that in this case he is on about things different to what it would seem on surface as you have mentioned, he is on about things of a much deeper psychological level and with deeper effects in regards to BPD individuals specifically and uniquely 🙂
he is not discussing this though. He is not talking about a longing for a stable relationship, he's talking about gaining the ability to have one without being emotionally reactive to small things.
Some people think than some of these desorder are not pathologies (since is not a genetical or infectious issue), but a series of behaviour mechanisms learned during childhood that causes dissatisfaction during adolescence and adulthood, so the cultural factors are always present, I guess that each society may present certain disorders when a member doesn't met certain social aspirations. Anyways, as far as I know, in bpd, the long-term relationship desire is not necessarily about a couple (which is what is typicaly portrayed in the media) but can be a friend, or a trusted family member (but this last is hard because mostly bpd arises within a lack of trust in the family)
It’s a fantasy, the fantasy needs to broken and reality testing restored
My exBPD was obsessed with Disney. He was always trying to create this perfect idealized life that could never exist.
Absorbing that media when you’re young and not having secure attachments can make you attach to that fantasy as a reality, to self regulate emotions. Which can carry into adulthood.
Ideally speaking, I believe, what we don't need at the beginning of our treatments is unavailability. We have to have help managing our crisis. Yeah, we need to be independent. But there´s a time and a place for everything, like, ideally speaking.
I have BPD. Coming from a very unstable home with an abusive narcissistic Mother. Despite years of therapy, I still find the pain can be excruciating. I really tried with DBT but it triggered me badly. If you happen to read this, can you suggest / recommend any other treatment modality? And, I had to self diagnose. Finally found a psychotherapist who diagnosed me with CPTSD. I will do whatever it takes to go into remission 🤷🏻♀️
Mentilization based therapy. Also individual schema therapy which is a lot more effective when combined with group schema therapy
I also heard of TFT (tranference focused therapy)
Dr. Janina Fisher’s TIST model and LENS Neurofeedback
Marty Glenn, Kelly Armatage, Crappy childhood fairy, TRE and Trauma informed yoga
Books
Whole Again
Myth of normal
Courage to be disliked
I knew something was wrong since my teens but never knew what it was. I went to a psychologist in my late 20's, they got close but didn't diagnose BPD. Heck, I literally didn't understand what borderline meant until this year and I'm 58! However, I'm one of the lucky one's I plotted for years to retire early and even though I went through hell I managed to retire on my 42nd birthday. The last 16 years have been much, much better but I've definitely found out most people have some variation of personality disorders. I'll say 75% of EVERYBODY are at least alcohol/drug/food addicts in order to cope with their internal problems and very few of the remaining 25% have a clue they're dysfunctional.
Don't just think it's you that has a disorder it really is everybody else.
I realized this at 30 ! All the healthy partners were picked by 30. It took me years to get super healthy,strong,! I started dating & couldn't believe the amount of men that were seriously damaged, dangerous. I finally felt the danger because I was in my cocoon of healing. So I got a dog! Lol. I have my hobbies, but it's Soo odd, feeling. Like water water everywhere but not a drop to drink. Rather be alone & sane than dating & in dangerous waters. 🕊️💙
@@pamspencer5733 It's funny you say this I remember in my mid 30's a friend of mine trying to point out prospective partners and I dismissively waved my hand "the good ones are already taken".
I like how your math implies that EVERYONE is dysfunctional in some way. So true!!
@@SladeBling The good ones (especially men) are truly already taken, the ones left over who are over 50 have personality disorders and are really tough to have a relationship with. If there's one thing i regret, it's that i didn't make getting married a priority in my early 20s. The good loving men would have. still been around.
@@Bubbles-od2tv I can certainly understand your viewpoint, my isn't much different. I also have fond memories of dating in my 20's, so much more real and exciting. In my case, once I turned 30 or 31 I realized the dating pool was vastly reduced to where it was really pointless to even try. I even miss the good ole' days of getting my heart broken!
As someone in the field of mental health, Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) often feels elusive and complex, with even the top specialists offering similar explanations or slight variations. However, the more I study it, the more it resembles trauma-an external shock that fundamentally alters one's psychological wiring. Like complex PTSD (CPTSD), BPD can be understood as an epigenetic phenomenon, where a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental factors reshape who you are at a deep level.
In this light, many individuals with BPD grow up with a pervasive sense of being inherently flawed. Having someone who offers unconditional love and radical acceptance can be profoundly therapeutic. Therapists can and should provide this, which is why transference-based therapy is often used. In many cases of BPD I've encountered, individuals are often in relationships with someone who both cares for them and, at times, contributes to their distress.
Idk,thats a big onus put onto a freaking child to be a therapist for a parent. and if the child goes to college, as I did, he viewed it as "abandonment" and got worse not better. Now he harms my sibling and is an emotional vampire so it doesnt generalize
this is why my bpd manifested after 30 getting married and having kids with a covert narcissist destroyed me.
that’s not how it works. it’s a developing disorder that starts in childhood. a partner in your adult life cannot give you BPD.
Exactly what happened to me, though a few years earlier
It manifested because you suffered childhood trauma and / or generational trauma. Essentially you were magnet for Narcissistic abuse, like me I'm not BPD, but was sexually abused as child and raised by mildly Narcissistic, neglectful parents. HSP too
You need to heal your inner child. Self healing is a possibility. Check out Marty Glenn, Kelly Armatage. Also online DBT, TRE, Trauma informed yoga.
How can you stop to split with BPD? Alot of the times i don't even realize i do it.
Amazing explanation
I guess I can't try to correct my disorder feeling from having a kid. I tried taking care of other people's kids, sometimes I stared at them, a strange feeling appeared on my mind, I started to dissociate from the site. Sometimes I feel moved by kids' purity and honesty and their ability to build up an intimate relationship with anything. But I am also very sure that I would be hurt by that. Also, I think I should avoid the tendency that the video indicates, that I can get cured from a relationship. Don't expect from that, you can never imagine how much a stranger who somehow becomes your mate can hurt you. So I've chosen to turn to counsellor, I'd rather stable grey.
Counselors can help but they're still human. We have to remember and re-learn (or more often learn for the first time) how to love ourselves. We can support ourselves the best. And externalizing everything always feeds into black and white thinking for me. If I internalize it, and remind myself that person is just another person and not my fault or my condemnation, I can come back around to the POWER that I have to fix myself. Calm myself. Make myself happy. First comes learning to let go of some of the dark. Then we can learn how to heal ourselves, slowly but surely. Check out Donna Eden. She's amazing.
Does a person with bpd remember the love after the breakup ?
In their healthier state of mind, yes. In the darkest moments, not so much. But that's true of all darkness, whether it's depression, anxiety, or what have you.
Wonderfully described. :-)
I havent ever had therapy for this, but definitely have it. other therapy has been a waste. Now I avoid making friendships. I could, have many friends I'm in a wonderful AA group. I'm 67 now and feel so so self conscious and different. like they don't really want to be my friend. but many of them like me, even love me. this feeling trapped inside myself is sad.
Do other borderlines feel that?
I think all borderlines do.
@@Dani-r1s thanks for your reply:)
This assumes that the therapist is an honest non-manipulative person. The instability isn't always due to behavior of the client.
@@thesorrow88 What has finishing University got to do with it lmao, having mental illness does not prevent folks from obtaining degrees and completing higher levels of education 🙃 Its a Personality disorder, not a Dunce disorder. How irrelevant
Sidenote: whilst I imagine most therapists aren't generally problematic or unsavoury to deal with; doesn't change the fact that therapists are still human too, and in that can also have potential to be generally nice/grumpy/genuinely caring/uncaring/crappy person in general, like literally anyone can 👍 can say that for any profession
From my perspective, the depression associated with the host of menial relationships substituting for the singular, all encompassing, ideal relationship stems from the realization that the perfection we seek is not attainable and that we must settle for what is less than ideal. For me I came to the realization one day that no single individual can always be there for you exactly the way you need it, exactly when you need them, for the entire duration that you need them. No one can be your personal Jesus, your private superman, your exclusive wish fulfillment machine. If for no other reason than the fact that you, yourself, cannot possibly become that for anyone else. We are creatures of a finite existence with finite capabilities. That realization is depressing only because it pulls us from the world of 'what ought to be,' and firmly grounds us in 'what is.' It's an existential crisis and we're left scrambling to come to terms with the irrefutable truth of it.
many borderline people have kids and expect that supply of perfect relationship to continue for the life of the child. That's all kinds of wrong when it leads to parentification and other toxic behaviours. Get better before making babies, please?
That's why I waited til I was in my 30s and on the healing journey for Real before I got pregnant.
And just so we're clear, my inordinant fear of being unloved was turned on its head when I had my son. He is my reason for loving. I love him forever, and I know he's his own person. He won't always love me. But knowing I can be that love for someone without it backfiring is a tremendous relief. That's all I ever really wanted. The fact that he's alive and breathing, is validation enough for me. The fact that I can laugh with him and share fun times is invaluable to my mental health. I am loved because I love him. Period. No need to question. My love is boundless and endless, and as long as I can give that love to him in some regard, he will always know I love him. That's what matters to me.
Bipolar individuals are highly optimistic and creative but feel that their choices must by approved of by those who fear competition, a narcissistic parent who always told them they cannot, so they think society must approve of their independent creative ability. They sort of bow to the narcissist but don't bow at the same time. The 2 Bipolars are, the narcissistic mother bipolar individual, who then creates physical solutions for her approval(Kanye West) and the narcissistic father bipolar, who studies to become a genius for dad's approval. The best remedy for a bipolar individual is to start controlling their own basic needs, from food, to shelter, to strength, health and fitness. Bipolar disorder uniquely allows the sufferer to form creative logic and ability much faster than other people, but only to try and redeem their narcissistic parent. That is why the bipolar individual creates masterful work but doesn't approve of it themselves, because their narcissistic parent might disapprove of it, in their heads they believe this.
Be a rock. Understand they need other relationships perhaps to feel secure. Have a child. Hmmm...sounds like everything I had. I am truly blessed. If only I could give the gifts I have received. I don't know that I ever could.
Relationships should be a meeting of relative equals- one's partner shouldn't exist to provide a therapeutic milieu for you. Triple ditto for children- people with BPD should NOT have children.
Disagree. If you're not in a relationship with someone who you feel like can push your to your heights and beyond, it's not a good fit in my mind. And no, partners should never become our therapists. That's why it's illegal for therapists to date, or even really befriend, their clients. But partners will always be the person who gets the brunt of whatever pain, attitude, or issues someone has. And I don't see what he was saying as touting a therapy type relationship with our significant other. Rather, saying that those relationships are the only ones that can teach a bpd person the true meaning of love, that it's unconditional. And he doesn't deny it's hard. ALSO, just because someone has BPD doesn't mean they "should NOT have children." Firstly, who are you to make that statement? Secondly, everyone with BPD is different. Thirdly, it's a disease, not a choice. Would you say someone with MS "should NOT have children"? Or cancer? Or depression? If someone is treating themselves, taking necessary steps of healing, and wants to have a kid, that's their choice. End of rant.
@@Dani-r1s It's so easy to espouse a head-in-the-clouds morality...in the abstract. I've worked with kids who come from families in which either one or both parents have personality disorders, worked with them in residential behavioral health centers. The logical conclusion of your statement implies that you wouldn't have a problem with pedophilic adults having children, right, as long as they had therapists?
A lot of people get on the "freedom" bandwagon to do what they want but then jump on society's dole and expects it to care for the problems that their selfish decisions wrought.
If the adult/adults with MS were ill to the point that they couldn't properly care for their children...or were soon to be that ill, you bet your life that I'd have no trouble saying that they shouldn't have kids. A physical therapist friend of mine went to a lecture about living with disabilities. Two of the guest speakers were quadriplegics (married) who were looking to have a child together. WTF????
2:20 Poor poor child that has to make its parent feel good about themselves. I cannot imagine greater child neglect than that.
It might also be worth noting that human beings are not mechanisms. Everybody is different and people can also change over time. Some physicians attach this bpd label very quickly, others only do so after rigourous testing and then others are reluctant to attach such labels at all, because they feel they do violence to people. In addition, one might receive a bpd diagnosis one year from one physician but not in five years time from the same physician, or even receive it at all from another physician. At the end of the day, despite the research, there is no definitive 'blood' test to establish 100% whether this disorder definitely exists or not. It's based on the interpretation of a collection of 'traits' divised by men in white coats to prescribe treatment. Also with this, like many diagnoses, there is still a continum; some people are suicidal and cannot function, whereas others are actually quite functional. If you think of depression; a person can have mild reactive depression or black psychotic depression that even sees them institutionslised. I'm just suggesting maybe people take people as they find them and be a bit more open minded as opposed to saying " everyone who got this label is x or why".
Loving someone with bpd is like a prison sentence.
This is so true
I guess I’m confused because in another video where he describes bpd relationships he says bpd’ers look to find a relationships that will fix their problems and end up swallowing the other person up. But here technically he is saying a stable relationship CAN fix a major part of them.
My dog is my rock for now
Who is this man? He’s so so wise.
He's the best i've heard on YT.
I wish this for myself :( I’m so tired of this hell
Is BPD an aspect of narcissism? Or, the other way around? The two seem to overlap to me...
Great question. Have you seen this vid about narcissism being a sort of defense against an underlying borderline structure? : th-cam.com/video/DlopY4DfFV4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qbCkXTpeki679Jjy
Thanks for the comment! -P
This is why Capitalism breeds 'mental illness':
Empathy != Transaction
Love is free
Nothing is really free: Except Air and similars.
Be an expert of your own life. Stop judging others
if a person has bpd, and if the person is exhausted and should she kill herself ? since the rate of suicide is so high in this case.
No. You should treat yourself, not defeat yourself.
Yes
@@ryean1_aus love this saying, stealing it thanks 🤣💜
My hb of 25 yrs has left with new supply leaving me to face a barrage of embarrassing questions while he lives out his grandiosity on social media. I'm waiting for that bubble to burst which it will eventually and then he's left with 2 choices. Face the mirror or exit. At 64, the latter is likely.
I’ve become lithromantic as a result of recognizing that I will never have a fulfilling romantic relationship. My genetic and trauma don’t fit into the equation of love. #bpdreality
That’s depressing
Fuck that's bleak. So far so true.
I feel that for some ppl, Bpd is not the real diagnoses..... I think it’s what These symptoms that people suffer is reaction to childhood trauma .... investigating and healing this trauma is the treatment
@@thesorrow88 I am not saying the symptoms aren’t real , I know the symptoms and suffering are real .... but I am against the label..... these people are suffering because most likely they were hurt .... but instead of helping them figure out this trauma we tell them it’s them , we tell them they are born this way with this personality..... do you think that’s fare or helpful to them .... noooo ...... their are many professionals who share this point of view, see Daniel mackler video on bpd
@@zazo6620 Just wanted to offer an alternate view: as someone who has suffered to find help UNTIL I had an actual BPD diagnosis...(not even on paper, but to hear it come out of my therapists' mouth) has been life changing. Even for myself, personally. Would you rather stay suffering with mystery symptoms or finally have some clarity? I welcomed the label because it provided me with the first concrete place to launch my healing journey. It gave me with so many realizations (like finding an appropriate therapist and why I had to go through 5 before someone would even look at me). I understand what you mean, but for some like me, it's the total opposite! I think when we name things, we can also begin to acknowledge their value (negative and positive) in our lives and act accordingly!
@@thesorrow88 That made me chuckle on a sad evening. Bless your heart.
Your full of sh!t , all my love , you know nothing 🖕🖤🤍
@@zazo6620 I get your point. But I think both can be true: it's a diagnosable personality disorder AND it's created trough childhood trauma. Almost every professional would agree with you that BPD comes from childhood trauma/is a manifestation of your (dysfunctional) coping mechanisms for this trauma. But in order to describe what the person is dealing with and how the person is feeling and acting, we use diagnoses.
But sadly there are also people who use the diagnosis to invalidate people, to blame them, for example that they are just born this way and therefore caused problems as a child in the family system, instead of recognizing that they are acting this way due to trauma which the adults are responsible for
Ps. I don't think it's right how people got angry and sassy with you (except for Karlen). They just want to feel attacked instead of understanding where you're coming from and instead of respectfully discussing what they disagree about. So don't take it to heart