It's time we saved Smash Ultimate...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- I think we may have overlooked one of the biggest additions to Super Smash Bros Ultimate since the start of the game, and that is the Final Smash Meter. Especially if we might have another generation of Ultimate if they go the Deluxe route for the Switch 2, we need to switch it up - and here's how.
Check out the full Final Smash hitbox video here:
• Explaining Every FINAL...
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They missed that Joker can attempt his Final Smash a second time if the first hit wiffs.
if you use your control stick to go the other way.
There's something incredibly important to note- while you have Final Smash, you are not able to use your neutral B.
This is negligible for characters like Peach/Daisy, where neutral B is not an important part of their kit, it's incredibly important for characters like Mr. Game and Watch. Mr. Game and Watch will lose access to his best ledge trapping tool, Wolf will lose blaster, Mario will lose fireball, etc.
It's an incredibly interesting albeit minor detail that will intensely reshape how a character uses their Final Smash.
Steve cannot Mine or place blocks while holding his Final Smash! Huge nerf
Shulk loses all his Monados, Mega loses his Blade, Joker loses his gun, there are characters that actually suffer from having final smash meter active
I feel like this would absoiutely mess up Rosalina, because she can't position her Luma correctly
"Mario will lose fireball"
nah he gets the bigger one
Not a big deal at all
Slight correction on the Peach Final Smash: When FS meter is on, you won’t fall asleep when you’re on ledge or in the air in general. This works even at kill percents. Additionally, at lower percents, you can mash out of sleep.
that used to be the case, but they patched it out. Ever since hero was added, they seemed to shadow buff peaches final smash to let it put people to sleep in the air too. give it a try in training mode if you dont believe me. I'm not sure how it works at ledge anymore though.
Yeah it's not as great as it seems
@@AndreBabaniyeah but you can still more or less dodge it by using some UpBs or trying to air stall if she don't use it just above you
Talking from experience here
@@AndreBabani I’ve already experimented with it recently and that’s how I discovered. Peach’s Final Smash doesn’t work the same way when Meter is used instead of the ball. The ball you sleep pretty much no matter what, but with meter, it’s much easier to try and avoid
“Zelda’s isn’t that crazy cuz you have to be at 100%”
Sir you can throw them off stage and use it next to the blast zone
yeah lol not to mention you can do that from ACROSS THE STAGE
@@Tomfoolery_Inc.it’s weaker with the smash meter version
9:46 Luigi finally deciding to use 0.00001% of his power
Its just Luigi being pecking weird as usual.
If everyone is busted... no one will be
Final Smashes for the remainder of Smash Bros Ult is honestly a good way to bring people back, IMHO.
This hard changes the meta lol. Some characters will rise and many will fall.
@@frosticle6409but it doesn’t change what most of us are against: defensive play. And it only makes the problems in the current meta worse.
the problem is some final smashes are just broken or straight ass. the FE characters have easy kills at 0, while some are pretty useless
@@KeleuHerdley Only positive is that Steve can't use block/craft/mine while he has final smash. He has to stop camping
@@KeleuHerdley Actually, the video isn't referring to putting the Smash Ball in tournaments. It's adding the *_FINAL SMASH METER_* that it's addressing.
I think people underestimate how powerful meter is. A lot of final smashes completely ignore neutral and give characters a free advantage state. Its a good comeback mechanic, but that and rage might be to much. It would be fun to watch tho, which i guess is the point.
Final smashes in competitive ULT would be badass.
zelda players eating with this one
I’ve been SAYING
Fun in general lol.
True, adding this to competitive ult would make the game feel new again😂
I could see it if they turned off smash balls. Too many characters can cheese the ball itself.
14:43 Probably the best description of a final smash I have ever heard.
One thing that may be worth mentioning about Robin's final smash is that if you land it, all of his resources get replenished
When the games meta starts to get so unbalanced, you need mild RNG to balance it out lol
Is meter rng?
@@Clover298 no i think they're thinking of smash ball
not unbalanced tho
Honestly? It's not even rng. The meter gradually fills over time and jumps up a little when you hit attacks.
As a long time Smash player, the idea is actually pretty interesting. It's basically like Overdrives in Guilty Gear Strive. The strong characters are already strong, so this doesn't change much for them. Meanwhile, weaker characters get a massive buff to their play-making potential. In addition, you gain access to risky but rewarding counterplay against characters that may have obnoxious or broken neutral specials. For instance, Steve can't block camp if he has his Final Smash, Shulk can't use his Monado Arts, and Pikachu can't Tjolt. This would make a lot more matchups more volatile and nuanced, where a player's ability to play around and utilize Final Smashes could be a pivotal factor in how the game turns out. It feels like FS meter was added to be competitively viable, because unlike items, it's not RNG-based by any means. For this reason, I see no problem with using it. Paired with a more diverse stage list, this would actually actually make for a very fun ruleset that would still be viable for competitive play.
In 15:21 That Zelda Final Smash Hitbox is a Freakin Doritos Hitbox lol
Nah man, that's the triforce of absurd windboxes.
I got grabbed by Zelda final smash through the thickest portion of FD.
something that the competitive pokemon scene does is have a "restricted format" every couple of years where legendaries are allowed and somsthing like that for smash would be great for the scene
the legendaries being the final smashes
If final smashes were more balanced, or if there were multiple levels of supers like in traditional meter fighting games. Zelda's is just insane and meanwhile marth can just kill himself with his if you miss
You can cancel Marth's final smash
Marth isn't killing himself. You're killing him
Marth, Lucina, and Cloud (his does the same thing dash wise) only enter the blast zone if you are in the air when using the FS. If you are not, it auto-cancels at the ledge.
Final Smash meter should be allowed in comp. It would make the weaker characters more viable, and it would make watching it way more interesting. Also, allow more stages.
And it would nerf sonic because of his terrible final smash.
@@toast2110 and game&watch
I'm torn, because I want that, but then Peach would be absolutely broken.
How on earth would it make low tier characters more viable? The high tier characters would have smash meter as well, and most final smashes are basically just instant kill cutscenes. Everything would just even out in the end and just be more boring. Casuals, I swear man…
@@metroidfoosion73 Because there are a handful of low-tier characters that have OP Final Smashes.
I hope this is a new chapter in Smash. You can carry us there. Im behind it. I aporeciate all of your love and dedication to this game. Never change Hbox.
Adding the FS meter and legalizing “controversial stages” is the solution. Maybe even moving to a best of 3 format is a good move. Best of 5 is really only necessary for top 8s.
Like what stages? Yoshi's? Mementos? Surely not castle fuck castle and it's stupid wall in front the of camera lmao
(Genuinely curious what you have in mind)
@@exister6652 I know Lylat and Fountain of Dreams are controversial stages. ;)
@@exister6652 Lylat Cruise and Fountain of Dreams.
Problem I have with that is it doesn't really shake things up at all, unless you had hazards on, which... hey, maybe
@@exister6652Wario Ware, Yoshi’s Island, Lylat, maybe Frigate. All of these with items off of course.
I will definitely be tuning in to the next Final Smash Meter singles tourney HBox hosts
I'd like to mention the fact that u can actually use final smashes like lucario and zss to recover back to center stage and u can dodge peach final smash by just staying in the air for the duration of the move (it's not easy but some characters can do it) and I would totally watch a meter on tournoment
FINALLY a competitive player acknowledging this about Smash. I’m a firm believer that the competitive Smash scene has sterilized TOO MUCH of the game. Removing items is fine, but we should consider smash meter and maybe some stage hazard stages that aren’t too insane
Also it’s funny seeing HBox react to final smashes, he’s so competitive focused he’s literally NEVER seen these final smashes before 😂
my take: keep the rules as usual for one bracket but have a side bracket with items, final smashes, stage hazards and more jank stages, etc
this goes for melee too. legalize poké floats
Yeah because FS Meter is still jank lmao. It's not like a fighting game super
We need final smashes to be added into ultimate frame data
Idk if you’ll see this HBOX but man thank you for core memories of my childhood. Your melee career made me start playing video games and has connected with many of my current friends. Hope I get to buy you a beer in the future and talk it up.
2028: "ITEMS ARE ACTUALLY HYPE WTF"
One bit of depth final smashes have is that you can B-Reverse them just like any other special move. It can be very satisfying if you’re, say, Ridley who is out of jumps and facing away from the stage when you b-reverse his final smash and catch the person on the stage off guard. It’s also super punishable if you miss cuz there’s a lot of lag after the move.
Puff and G&W are really good if you know how to use them
With Puff, you have to go in the middle of the bottom of the stage to cover both ledges and then some
With G&W, you wanna try to use it closer to the ledge so they have less time to mash out of it, while staying high enough to catch their jumps, but also low enough to the stage so they can't duck
They're both really good, but you have to put in the work to get them there
I have been waiting for that since the game has been released, a major with smash meter would be incredible!
47:58 onward
final smash 0-death combos on all characters
We def need to use this format to test it and execute it
I always didn’t really like competitive because how much stuff was disabled, glad to see some experimentation on the competitive format
At this point it really doesn’t even matter since competitive Super Smash Bros ultimate is dead at this point. No it’s not the characters like Steve, Sonic, Mr Game & Watch that ruined the game.
@@happythumbsgaming8606 again I never really liked competitive so all the characters you mentioned are completely fine in casual play, if competitive just needs to incorporate more casual elements to revive itself I think that’s a great idea.
Haven’t seen the whole thing so maybe he addresses it, Dark Pit backthrow -> buffered Final Smash is true at 0% from both Ball and Meter (on ledge). Is it a hyperspecific timing? Yes, but it’s bonkers to do a drag down->back throw->Final Smash and pro DPs (not me) can def make it consistent
lol, I was looking for the vod of this coinbox just earlier today
Given how HBox freaked out about the Big Puff glitch, I wonder how he'd react when he realized that Egg Lay makes Puff EVEN BIGGER
Ive liked having fs meter on when playing with friends, mainly to give them a chance since im a sweat, buts also because its fun as hell
I think this would work if shield could block final smashes. Then sometimes they get blocked, sometimes it breaks the shield or greatly reduces it, or could parry it.
Shiek finally has kill power!
I will actually get back into smash again if FS meter tournaments become common, sounds really fucking fun
I love that Dedede's combo completely filled Mac's KO meter
It's fun to change things up sometimes, makes things feel fresh in an old game.
One thing to consider (idk if he mentioned it) is that hero and shulk's buffs make their final smashes much stronger
if we made fs meter legal zelda would jump to C tier
Zelda and Peach/Daisy were the most painfully guilty culprits justifying a Smash Meter ban but in hindsight none of the other DLC characters have broken Final Smashes as good as their so it might actually be a decent idea to try it out for a hot minute.
sonic, steve and rob are boring to watch, bring back the smash meter, thats probably why sakurai included them outside of the item anyways.
palutena, peach and rob have strong ones sure, but i'd rather see peach use the final smash and probably lose, then a tournament with 50 steves
@@heartnet40 Can’t you just simply ban them?
Character bans a so hard though. Brawl Meta Knight wasn't banned, 4 Bayo wasn't banned, and the Steve ban hasn't been widely adopted.
Meter Final Smash sounds like a great idea. It will have a different meta, naturally, but it’s the boost the scene needs.
I’ve honestly been thinking of making either a Wi-Fi or in person weekly series of smash ultimate but with a different rule set each “timeframe” whether that’s week, month, every other week. This is honestly a way for people to enjoy competing again. Cause it is a detriment to the community that we are OBSESSED with using a rule set that is restricts all the hard work sakurai and his team put into one of the biggest and most versatile fighting games ever made
It's funny seeing HBox react to Final Smashes like they're a new update lol. It'd be really cool of they were allowed in competitive play.
Ganon can dthrow near ledge or from a bit farther away can dthrow nair and if the opponent is over the edge the first hit that spikes will kill at 0
The strict rules for Melee make sense because that works for Melee, but there could totally be different rulesets for different smashes!
I think FS meter would be a lot better with 4 stocks, personally.
Would the games be longer on average, maybe, but it would help the "cheesiness" a lot. Plus, good meter management would be rewarded even more by letting you get another final smash off with the extra stock
I think you neglected to take something into account for Snake's final smash: Snake can act once the missiles start firing
It’s crazy that I’ve had this game since its release and I don’t know what the final smashes do.
Advent children alt cloud final smash always sends the direction he faces
That Sephiroth final smash was an attack he had in FF7, which played a five-minute cutscene featuring some sort of meteor smashing through the outer planets and then into the sun, exploding the sun into a red giant which then consumes mercury, venus, and earth... and unless you're massively low on health or levelling, not actually killing any of your party.
Wait! That means Terrys can do the sick tech of comboing from Buster Wolf into his Final Smash in competitive!!
If final smashes are ever added. Itll be fun for a month while its new (like steve was), then it'll be super boring cause the super OP final smash characters will have cheese to kill at 0 thats even easier then it is right now.
and how is that worse then the current meta with no interaction at all?
I once met an Incineroar online that'd use smash meter and spam.
He was one stock ahead and I had Ryu.
I was over 100% when he went to his last stock.
I managed to land a fully charged focus attack that led to Heavy Jab -> Shoryuken -> Shin Shoryuken.
He died at 0.
That was funny.
Keep in mind that he’s just looking at the hitboxes and not the context of the attacks.
For example, back throw into final smash at ledge from the Marios kills at 0 percent, and is escapable only with very specific SDI.
the thing with Chrom's awkwardly spaced voice line, it is probably done to be more in line with his Japanese voice line, which is also spaced
I always wondered whether Final Smash meter would work in a competitive format.
Finally, little mac has a recovery move
Guys, how COOL would it be if every time you manage to land a Bowser final smash, it always screen ko's??
I quit TO-ing years ago
BUT I had always thought that if I still ran tournaments for Ultimate I'd be running 2 brackets.
standard tournament rule set, double elim, etc
Final Smash Bracket with the above rule set
Always thought itd be pretty stellar and the the FS mechanic is too slept on
imo if you have two brackets one should go ahead and allow items
Yes! This is what's actually needed
You high key cooked with this one. I’m all in
What about smashball where you have to fight to get a final smash rather than automatically having it. It would be the perfect mix between regular singles and smash meter and would satisfy both crowds
Smash is fun when you turn items on. I would like to see who is the best when items are turned on. I bet it would be some random out there in the wild
My friends and I always use smash meter, rarely ever do we use the ball
Honestly hard agree. I think if they'd been doing this from the beginning, and gave our feedback on final smashes earlier in the game's lifespan, we could end up with more balanced final smashes and an overall better game. This is a fun game mechanic, and it's a shame we don't use it more
I wouldn't mind final smash
meter if stocks go from 3 to 4.
I think this would be cool as a format, but wonder if the current way FS Meter runs would be a problem. It runs out after 20ish seconds of max charge, and you lose like 1/4th of the bar if you die with it charged. Might be nice to see a modded version take out the timer so players can use it when they’d like to. Otherwise we’ll just run away.
Highkey at this point I'd be down for 4 stocks FS meter on for the remainder of Ult
At least occasionally I feel like that would be REALLY fun to watch and create some cool moments
We need a final smash tournament and a item league tournament with would be fire as hell
I always brushed aside final smashes but this made me rethink them. But, if other Fighting Games have supers and other stuff, why can't we have it! Have you guys ever seen an FGC hit a sick combo into his final smash, it's mad cool? Why not, this would be badass.
Because other fighting games are completely different genres. Smash is a platform fighter while Tekken and Skullgirls are traditional fighters, that, superficially, look more like a real fight.
28:05 lucario fibak smash can kill the opponent at 0% if his own percentage is high enough.
Imagine if in competitive overwatch they disabled ults. Final smashes are similar with meter
The alternate move set from smash 4 should’ve been explored more.
Final smash meter makes games kinda slower because of all the animation time.
Also Peach/Daisy don't put airborne/ledged opponents to sleep so the opponent could heal too (plus they're actionable during the FS frames provided they don't fall asleep)
44:23 Oh, that's where his victory meat went.
When I first started playing Ult, I (like most ppl) played w meter. I think it was the most fun I’ve had playing Ult, but then when I took the game more seriously and turned off meter. I noticed the game was getting a little less fun over time. Having meter keeps me on my toes when playing, it also makes me want to kill my opponent faster since they won’t be able to get their FS. This is just me idk if most players will agree w me, I just felt the need to type this out LOL
if this gets pushed i expect any bayonetta players to just witch time 3/4 of the final smashes
Having Final Smash meter on is basically like having Smash 4 rage. It rewards people for losing. I think if we were to turn it on, 4 stocks would be necessary.
Meter doesn’t just regain by losing health
Not really. It also rewards you for playing aggressive.
@@SaltyToad00 you get meter like twice as fast by getting hit. fight a lvl 1 cpu with meter turned on, see how fast u get meter by playing aggresive vs how fast the cpu gets it by getting hit.
I, for one, would come back to watching smash if they ran this format.
can you link the original video creator in the description/pinned comment please?
Sakuri's smiling in retirement
14:49 its literally the triforce of wisdom
I genuinely think this should be tried out too. Most fighting games have supers - and they play the same role as a final smash here. They’re mainly comeback mechanics or solidify a win from someone who’s already stomping. Often most used to take back a round, or close out an advantage.
Is more than half a life bar and often the whole round in a traditional fighting game, about just as worth as a stock in Smash? I’d say so.
Ultimate is particularly the best smash game to try this out IMO. There are so many broken mechanics already being abused by the majority of the cast. Even low tier characters like DK or Incineroar albeit being “bad”, can hit you 3-4 times and take an entire stock. So what’s so bad about a final smash? I guess it guarantees the kill, but would not play out much different than those cheesy mechanics already in place.
Ultimate is a pretty good testament to “if everyone is broken no one is broken”. And there are competitive games that excel in this format like DBFZ, or MVC.
if it was same damage but lower knockback would be fine
44:22 "That's a huuuuuuge hitbox."
Underestimate Lucas pk starstorm at your own risk my guy
You can literally just carry people to their death by moving it, meter or not
Ganon final spikes.
I would be down for meter singles, but i would make it 4 stock games
I'm pretty sure DK is one of (if not) the that can avoid zelda Final smash with up b being immune to windboxes
Ngl, I think HBox needs to host more FS meter tournaments and do a tier list or whatever with a more accurate opinion.
I brought back smash culture in school...people enjoy it again
Spicing things up sounds good
just gonna say, rosalina final smash is crazy strong, I dont know what your chat is thinking lol but it does need to be kind of combo'd into
If final smashes became competitive, heck yeah I’m gonna keep maining Ike.
Weirdly, I’m warm to this. Some of them are overly powerful, but it might encourage an interesting neutral of operating around the hitbox of the final smash. Or it might end up making things campy or hit and run, who knows, it was never tried
FS meter is honestly so damn fun, it actually feels like a fighting game lmfao
Juan sees Rosalina's final smash: "This is ASS!"
Dawg, have you SEEN Rosa's final smash in Smash 4????
I AM INTO THIS