Why Stan Culture is Toxic for Everyone (Including Celebrities!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Stan culture has normalized celebrity idolization, and it’s pretty concerning. Stans will sling insults and even make death threats to people who had the audacity to dislike their idol. In this video, I’ll be taking a look at the psychology and consequences of these obesssive fans (including Kpop, celebrity, and influencer stans).
TIMESTAMPS:
0:43 - What is a “stan”?
1:43 - The 3 types of “fans”
4:26 - The dark side of stan culture
- 4:42 - 1. Stans blindly support their celebrity
- 9:50 - 2. Stan behavior is selfish and not even healthy for the celebrity
- 11:40 - 3. Stars’ private lives are a commodity
13:54 - The importance of celebrity critique
Shoutout to my friend Joann for her insight on Kpop and Jpop stan culture! Check out her channel: / @fromjo2452
Smokey Glow’s video on stan culture and cancel culture: • My Thoughts: Stan Cult...
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Instagram / imperfectidealist
#stanculture #internetculture #kpopstans
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I wonder what's the most effective mindset to address toxic stan tendencies. When K-pop was blowing up in my country around 2009-2011, most of my high school peers were becoming hardcore stans of the most popular idol groups back then. I thought I was really weird for not being able to sustain my interest in any Korean idol or Western musician (Michael Jackson died around 2009, I did some listening to his catalogue but not much anything past that.) I just wasn't interested in celebrities' personal lives and while I did listen to one or two interviews, I didn't really feel compelled to buy merchandise lol
I have two friends who are still K-pop stans. They both still actively support their respective faves, buy merch and have obvious desires to go to concerts, but I can observe that one of them is not using K-pop as a mental and emotional crutch or using her status as being a K-pop fan as her only "personality trait". She just has her own life and other interests and hobbies outside of K-pop, and many irl friends and family she can talk to. I went with her once on a Winner fan gathering (I was curious and I wanted to know more about her interests) and we had a blast :-) She was very patient in informing me about the Winner members and their songs and concepts lol :))
I think people who have other things going on in their lives, have healthy amounts of self-love and self-esteem, and have relationships with people irl are less likely to be toxic stans.
My other friend, meanwhile, seems to be using BTS and Red Velvet to substitute therapy to cope with her mental illness. I'm not against BTS and Red Velvet, I think they have done a good job inspiring many fans, but it's not okay to rely on them to make you feel good when you have a growing mental health problem. I have a mental illness too, and nothing beats a good therapy session, meds, self-reflection and a willingness to cultivate self-love than most of the same old platitudes spoken by celebrities.
I enjoyed your bestdressed video and it actually prompted me to make my own about her since I'd been a big fan of hers for such a long time. It was my own way of confronting how much I could or couldn't overlook about an influencer I liked. But I definitely felt some push back from the "she's only human " crowd, even though i fully stated in my video that I don't believe stanning is healthy and I also don't believe cancel culture helps where there is still room for people to actually address issues/grow (unless they've harmed people). Great video !!!
I will have to check your video out! I completely agree with you, and was disappointed by the "only human" arguments, because I think it's another way to "overlook" issues we should be talking and thinking about. And I strongly believe people with a large platform have a bigger responsibility than individuals, so even if they are only human (which we should recognize), we should also recognize that their actions have more weight. Thanks for watching :)
Just wanted to add some new info/clarification:
1. I didn't have enough context for the Nicki Minaj example - the tweet mentioned does have sexist/ageist undertones, and I missed that. It's especially relevant because women in hip hop are often criticized for things that men aren't. I still don't love the response of Nicki and the stans, but I think this is important to point out, especially since it wasn't really highlighted in mainstream media coverage of this situation.
2. I plan to be more mindful about the narratives I include, especially when related to stereotypes of BIPOC. I do feel Nicki's response was harmful, but I certainly don't want to contribute to the "angry black woman" trope. The examples and stories we hear really impact our perspectives, and there are better examples of stan behavior that wouldn't "reinforce" this harmful stereotype.
Thanks to Jade for commenting and having a chat with me about this!
Thank you!! 👏🏻
An example of a toxic level three power rangers Stan would be a Cretaceous era dinosaur megazord lover that’s really picky beyond belief I am sure of some type of people out there like that but not me
At the beginning of this video I wondered what experience you had that inspired this video. But having watched your video, I assume (correct me if I’m wrong) it was due to the video you made on bestdressed. You made really good points, but the kpop portion of the video (while related in that many fans are stans) didnt really fit. Your video seems more like a response to comments on your bestdressed video (ex: holding influencers accountable was a recurring statement). Also as someone who enjoys kpop, I found it a little strange (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) that you, someone who says that you didn’t know too much about kpop, made it such a large portion of your video and included BTS in the thumbnail. I also think it’s a good idea to get information on a topic from more than one person. But again, no hate, just puzzled. I followed you for your sustainability videos and while the topic of this video is not something I usually care for, it’s nice to see you making content that you seem to want to make.
Thanks for your thoughts, Kim! The video was inspired by my experience making the video on bestdressed, but I wanted to take a look at stan culture in a more general way. That's why I made sure to include celebrities, influencers, and Kpop bands - I actually don't follow any of the people mentioned in the video (Shane Dawson, Nicki Minaj, the Kpop bands). I didn't only talk to my friend about Kpop/Jpop culture, and also researched on my own. I thought that what I learned supported the idea that stan culture is harmful for everyone, which is why I mentioned it. If you feel that I misrepresented Kpop stan culture in any way, please let me know (keep in mind I mean stan culture, and not regular fandoms). That was not my goal at all, and I hope I made it clear that I understand there are plenty of wholesome fans out there! Thanks for watching :)
imperfectidealist I agree that fans take it too far, but kpop fans specifically tend to be labeled as “toxic” and so I believe adding BTS (arguably one of the most famous kpop groups in and outside of Korea) in the thumbnail of a video titled “Why Stan Culture is toxic for everyone (including celebrities) misrepresents their fan base and perpetuates the idea that fans of kpop are toxic to those who stumble across your video but don’t watch it. I didn’t find issue in you discussing kpop but with you putting BTS in the thumbnail as you didn’t really talk about them that much. I understand it’ll help you reach a larger audience but it doesn’t sit well. Again, I don’t want to come off as hating. It’s an interesting topic and one worthy of discussion. Have a nice day 🥰
@@Kvxx14 totally fair, that's certainly something I want to be sensitive to! I just don't talk about any specific group very much, but do talk a decent amount about Kpop stan culture, so I wanted to show that in the thumbnail. I figured that the best way to do that would be by including the most popular Kpop group. I don't want to perpetuate the idea that all Kpop fans are toxic, so I tried to make the distinction between stans and fans, and hope it's clear from the title as well. I'm not sure of a better solution, but let me know if you have any ideas! Have a good day as well 😊✨
imperfectidealist it’s clear after watching the video but like I said the titled coupled with the image of a particular band (BTS) does give off the impression that you’ll be speaking on a specific group. Maybe instead of bts in the thumbnail, a thought bubble saying things like kpop, influencers, celebrities? But it’s your video and your choice. Those are just my thoughts
@@Kvxx14 So I think the main issue is that the thumbnail feels clickbait-y to you? I'll certainly take that into account for the future, but by the time I was making the thumbnail, I'd already made the video. I didn't think it was unjustified to use BTS as an image since I did talk quite a bit about Kpop and mentioned the group briefly, and wanted a visual representation of that (I think general words wouldn't be as visually appealing). Hope that makes sense, and I appreciate your feedback and thoughts :)
Kneel before thy god Babylon being the television set
Great video
The Nicki Minaj tweet I believe was taken out of context, by you, a non-Black person. The reason it was weird she critiqued Nicki is because she has nothing to say about Black men reaching or over 40. Also try not to call Black women aggressive, too much behind that word directed at Black women. I don't believe the barbs did a good thing, but also i dont think you understand the full context as a non-Black oerson, hope you understand, love your work but rubbed the wrong way by that.
This is an issue that Black women deal with a lot in rap, but never come back to the men, in the end her tweet was misogynoir, but you didn't catch that because the context is missing. liked the rest of the video though
@@LoveJadybug Thanks for the context, Jade! Sure, I can see how there was probably some misogyny involved in Wanna's tweet, but I don't think that changes my point - the reaction of the stans was still incredibly hateful. While the tweet may have been more problematic/nuanced than I made it out to be initially (which I apologize for missing), I still don't think it warrants the vicious responses or death threats.
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Also, would love to discuss why you think saying someone is aggressive is problematic - I understand the trope of the "angry Black woman" and how it's harmful, but if a Black woman is actually being aggressive, why would it be harmful to say that? Totally just curious, no need to respond if it's too much of a burden. I just don't necessarily agree with your point based on this situation. For instance, Chinese people have the stereotype of being stingy, and while I don't necessarily want to perpetuate that, if a Chinese person *is* being stingy, I'm going to say it like it is. I hope that makes sense? Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Just to add onto this thought - maybe it's more the idea that I should be especially careful in the way I characterize a Black woman's anger? I know that part of the issue is that a Black woman's anger is often considered unjustified in cases where the anger of a man or woman of another race might be considered justified. I think this one is tricky for me because I still find Nicki's response unnecessarily harsh, and like to think that I would feel the same way regardless of her race or gender. But I will definitely note your point and try to be more careful!
@@imperfectidealist sure it doesn't change the stans response but I think saying that it was "just an innocent tweet critique" is just wrong and shows you lack context to use this as an example. it's not- because as people who follow hip-hop know, it's not just Nicki MInaj, its the whole culture of hip-hop. And critiquing ONLY the biggest women rapper at the time, is misogynoir and isn't a valid critique. it's bigger than just the tweet. I think Nicki's response was fitting to what the tweet was, a shallow critique, unwarrented of a real response. Also, I don't think non-Black people should be calling Black people aggressive period. the way the word has been weaponized is disgusting and feed into the trope rather if you meant it "genuinely" or not.
@@LoveJadybug So, just to clarify - what sort of critique would be valid then, in your opinion? If Wanna hadn't mentioned Nicki's age, would it be valid? Is any critique of Nicki valid? I'm struggling here because even if the critique was shallow or had broader implications (which one is it?), I don't understand Nicki's or the stans' personal attacks (which was the point of the example). From your comments, the tweet actually seems to have larger implications than maybe Wanna intended, and in that case, the vicious response from stans and Nicki may actually obscure those issues. It seems like a missed learning opportunity to me. Like I said, I apologize for not doing my due diligence and missing the context, but I still think it's a good example of unwarranted stan behavior. I'm happy to add some more context in a pinned comment to address this though.
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I think the discussion of the word "aggressive" is interesting, but I wonder why you consider it acceptable for Black people to call other Black people "aggressive," but not non-Black people? Again, just trying to think about this analytically. If the use of the word feeds into the trope regardless of whether the person was aggressive or not, why would it matter who's using it? As we've seen in this case, as you pointed out, people can have internalized misogyny/racism towards their own groups, so based on this logic, then maybe no one should be using the word to describe Black women? I'm just trying to understand this reasoning. And if a Black woman is actually "aggressive," what would be a good alternative word to describe that? I just don't think we should necessarily excuse unwarranted behavior because of the trope.
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Again, trying to be mindful of the emotional burden, so I don't expect a response if it's too much. I find this interesting to think about, but it is heavy and contentious. I obviously don't want my words to be harmful, but I also want to still think critically and understand your perspective (and still be able to hold people accountable for their behavior, which was the point of the video). Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and hope you're well.
I am also a level zero category digimon fanboy
To be more mature than power rangers any fanboy related to that
As well as a level zero obsession mobile suit 78 fanboy
Ahaaaaa
I am a power rangers fanboy no matter what they put out whenever
That’s to be precise a level zero fanboy of obsession