Best TAP & DIE Set? Craftsman vs Irwin, Bosch, Draper, Vermont American, Tekton, GearWrench
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- Tap & Die sets tested: Craftsman, GearWrench, Draper, Bosch, Tekton, Century, Irwin, Vermont American & Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight). Tap & Die sets tested for sharpness to cut threads in aluminum, medium-hardness steel, and spring steel. After creating threads, each of the threads are compared for fit and quality. My goal is to always provide accurate and honest test results by avoiding outside pressure from manufacturers. To do this, I always buy all of the products that I test along with the test equipment and supplies used for the testing. So, thank you very much for helping me achieve this goal by your support of the channel.
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➡ Products Tested In This Video (in no particular order):
Craftsman: amzn.to/361UCIl
Century: amzn.to/3GL2RFe
Tekton: amzn.to/3JDCWS7
Bosch: amzn.to/3gGqzIl
Draper: amzn.to/3HNmnSW
GearWrench: amzn.to/3LvjEzO
Vermont American: amzn.to/3HK5E2U
Irwin: Available at Lowes
Pittsburgh: available at Harbor Freight
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Love the closeup of the Harbor Freight set with all the scattered parts and the poorly machined dies while you quoted their product's 'exacting standards'.
Thank you! I was hoping Pittsburg would be of better quality.
hmm
@@ProjectFarm there's that sense of humor!
I actually thought the shot at 0:32 was a joke at first, good lord
Yeah the machining on the inside of the die looked very crude. It seemed like one of the other Chinese brands was pretty sloppy too. The Irwin-Hanson was a daylight to dark difference with beautifully cut threads.
I’d love to see you test different brands of “flushable” wipes. The brands say they are safe and they dissolve, but virtually every plumber says never use them 👍
I used to work in a retirement home, we constantly told the care givers that "flushable" doesn't mean flushable. They still flushed them. Guess what the most common thing was that I snaked out of the sewer lines when they clogged?
Listen to the plumbers.
@@Deere2154D I laugh at the wipes labeled "plumber approved."
Of course they are plumber approved: they provide job security for plumbers!
"septic safe" TP vs standard
I am certified to work on aerobic septic systems. Flushable wipes literally means that they are capable of being flushed down the toilet, so technically the labels are correct. By that same logic, a small pet is also flushable.
I just love your format and tempo. No fluff, no filler, just clear concise and to the point. You've helped me make many confident decisions as a homeowner and general diy'er. Thank you.
You are so welcome!
I need you to know that I'm trying to be informative and not critical with this comment. You are possibly the best content provider that I follow, for a number of reasons. I love your videos and the time and effort you put into "covering all the bases" with each group of items you test. Having said that, I, respectfully, say that you may have come up a little short on this one.
Training as a draftsman back when we had Vocational and Technical High Schools in this country that trained young people to go to work and not always to go to college, I learned that there are various "Fit" standards for American, and I can only assume, Metric, threaded fasteners. I have worked with many skilled tradesmen over the years and it is the rare one that knows this. Mechanical engineers and machinists know it, but not mechanics, or other end users, so much. When you use the "recommended" twist drill for a given thread size in a "Kit" like this, you aren't wrong, but you need to understand that there is actually a range of drills that should be used for each tap, depending on how much "Thread Engagement", expressed as a percentage, is desired from the finished hole. Of course you can, and most users eventually do, decide on a "good enough" size that gets most jobs done. The problem arises when you begin to compare the wobble in a nut of unknown thread engagement on a bolt, also of unknown thread fit standard, to a cut thread using the same twist drill for each hole with multiple brands of taps. Each tap brand could be used with a differing drill size that could possible replicate the sample nut and bolt fit, so the wobble factor rating could be considerably changed and, therefore, doesn't mean the tap is of poor quality or design. You as the end user are supposed to be aware of these things. Many taps are meant to be used with Number or Letter drills, not fractional drills.
I noticed that some of your dies were adjustable dies. The ones with a split in the circumference will be adjustable. Some of them that are adjustable will have a set screw that spans the gap created by the split and can be tightened to spread the split and give a shallower cut and a tighter thread fit. The second type of adjustable die has a slit and a "V" notch in the circumference. The handle for that die will have a screw that wedges itself into the "V" and forces it apart, again making the threads shallower and tighter.
How DEEP the threads are cut with both the taps and the dies, will influence the torque needed to cut the thread. That means that a very sharp die, cutting a very deep thread, could still have a high torque requirement and would yield a very sloppy thread. It doesn't make it a bad die.
I don't know if you made adjustments to the dies or not, but adjusting them, and they are meant to be adjusted and usually cost more for that reason, will dramatically change your results in many ways. Likewise, It would be helpful to know if the same "standard drill" was recommended in all materials, by all the sets. One other consideration when comparing factory nuts and bolts the home shop made threaded products is the quality of the machine driving the drill. A drill running in a press will run truer and yield a smaller, rounder hole than one run in a hand drill. Even starting a tap with a drill press doesn't guarantee that it will go straight (although for the thickness of material you where using, it should). The factories that make nuts and bolts use precision machines called, you guessed it, Screw Machines, to mass produce threaded fasteners. In a machine shop, when making a one off thread, a bench tapping machine or a lathe is used to make sure everything is lined up and that would require the least amount of torque. A thread that runs out will get harder and harder to make.
I'd just like your subscribers to know that if the thread is too loose feeling, they should try a smaller drill and expect it to take more torque and lube. Also be aware that some dies can be adjusted for a very snug fit. Practice on some scrap first.
Dude get a life.
Just kidding. Thank you for leaving this comment. It's nice to be getting the correct information when looking at this stuff. It's always nice to hear from someone who is experienced. Getting the wrong info can lead to some major trouble. So thank you! 😊
@@NotAdamSnider You're quite welcome. I wish I wasn't so lazy and was willing to invest in the gear and effort required to film content, since I do have experience in lots of useful skills. I use this TH-cam resource all the time to acquire even more skills and value all the content makers that put in the effort that this fella does. He's right up there at the top, wouldn't you agree? I try to give back in the comments when I can because I do know how to talk ( ask any of my friends LOL) and write, although my typing is hunt and peck. I share as I can.
Thanks for that wealth good information, some of which I already knew. My uncle was a well paid tool & die maker, cutting his teeth while serving in the royal navy during WWII, below decks as an artificer, and later after the war for a major farm equipment manufacturer, so I picked up some of this minutia second hand. I have inherited some of his precision tools, mostly from companies like Gray, Butterfield and Starrett, well made good quality precision tools that will outlast you and your next generation, harder and harder to find these days. I feel those days of precision and quality and pride in one’s work are diminishing daily.
@@62Cristoforo ..yes, and sadly, many of those old trusted brands are now owned by China and made in China..Vermont American used to be very decent stuff at a budget price..now it is just average run of the mill China fodder...
@@62Cristoforo
China. That's what's behind the drop in quality. Any manufacturer who moves operations to China isn't interested in quality. First, the employees at the new factory, including supervisor will be newbies. Chinese managers will cut every corner possible, including using cheaper, lower grade metals than specified (if you supply the material yourself, they will sell it and buy cheaper), and then pocket the difference. They will justify this fraud by: "If I don't do it, then I'm not doing enough for my family." Chinese don't trust each other, and will take advantage of any foreigner from a high trust society where people where living up to contractual obligations is considered the bare minimum, not a ceiling which should be sereptitiously unmet by slowly lowering product quality, farther and farther below the specifications, until the outsourcing company complains, and then just revert to the standard of the previously accepted shipment, with zero intention of EVER putting out product to the quality level specified in the purchase order.
I was a machinist for a defense contractor and we use Greenfield and Guhring taps. The tap sets you tested here are fine to general use and do not have a tread clearance called out, that's why they vary on how lose they cut. The Greenfield and Guhring you have to specify GH1 or GH2 depending on how you want the bolt to fit. GH1 are very close tolerance fit and are the most expensive. The GH2 has more clearance but still less than the sets you tested. Maximum holding power use the GH1.
How does Starett quality compare to the other two?
@@jimb9283 Starrett makes mostly measuring devices, they do make tap wrenches but I've never seen a tap made by them, even if they have made taps better to stick to the companies that specialize in making taps.
Gurhring makes taps? Learned something new
Also 4 flute taps need to be reversed frequently to break the chip to achieve the best it can deliver.
A quality cutting fluid makes a world of difference also.
All tested are hobby grade , a far cry from a Greenfield or Guhring . Retired Tool Die & Mold maker.
Thanks for the feedback.
The rate this man produces content is insane. Most of my subscriptions get away with a video every 2 months or so. Awesome, and glad I watched before buying a set because I truly was considering that pittsburgh set not having known anything about quality.
Thanks for the feedback.
I have a Pittsburgh tap set for home mechanic use. It stinks.
@@ewaltmana Ah good to know
You can't even chase a thread with a Pitsburgh much less cut a clean one.. the cost of a good set is so expensive, you are usually better off buying the size you need when you need it.. get a tap handle and a die stock at a flea market.. You'll most likely only use a couple of the pieces in the set anyway.. OR Work in a machine shop and return the taps to your toolbox instead of the tool crib..
@@twistedhillbilly6157 I’ll just buy the Irwin set I guess
I literally watch your videos every time im looking at purchasing a tool. Not only that, your car vids are highly informative! You are a true service to the public. Thank you for your diligent testing!
Awesome! Thank you!
This channel always helps me choose what tools I want to spend my money on. Thank you for all the great information and great videos. I'm on my way out the door to pick me up a tap and die set now. This is one of the best channels on TH-cam!
Thanks! Glad to hear!
I tried using a harbor freight tap to cut a hole in an engine block. IT DID NOT CUT FOR ANYTHING. got a good quality hardened tap and worked perfect. Learned my lesson 😂
Great feedback! Thank you
Harbor Freight tools are hit or miss. I've gotten a few excellent tools from there that lasted years. Went back to get another one, and it was total garbage. And then, a 3rd time and got some sort of mid-range quality. I thin it all depends on who they source from when they need to restock their warehouses.
14:00 a small error you made is the split dies are meant for adjusting how tight/loose the thread is, by clamping it in the vice, you are *making* it as loose as it can make the thread by means of collapsing it to it's maximum cut. This would also increase torque/wear on the die.
I had the same thought when I saw how he did the test with the split dies.
Yup. That will cut a smaller diameter thread and cause the loose fit.
Came here to say exactly this, by closing the die your forcing it to both cut more (taking more force) and giving a looser fit
Not that small an error, I guess this is the price of churning out content. Still an awesome channel and I really appreciate the effort.
I was thinking the same thing. Also do people not reverse up to cut the thread any more, and clean out the swarf? No wonder some of these were binding and breaking. I wonder if that caused some of the slop too.
Really appreciate your testing. I’ve owned a craftsman for about 25 years and it has always worked very well. Thanks!
25 year old craftsman was made in the US, the newer stuff is made in Taiwan.
A bonus for craftsman and Irwin is that you can buy single taps and dies to replace worn ones. I believe it’s the same with gear wrench. Not so with many of these sets. Or if you are made entirely out of money, snap-on or Mac offers a similar arrangement.
Thanks for the feedback.
Interstate and precision offer the same. But they’re up there in price as well.
I think a video on rivet nuts would be pretty interesting. I’ve been looking at them to put on my pickup bed so I can easily remove and remount my toolbox. With just a bolt from the top instead of having to get a nut underneath the edge. My old truck it was easy to do, but my new one is impossible to get under the back corners of the tool box with my hand and a nut.
I’m mostly curious how much torque the standard round ones can handle before twisting loose. I’ve seen these hex shaped rivet nuts also. For them a small hole is drilled, then a tool pulled through the hole to make it hex shaped, then the hex shaped rivet nut is crushed into that. Looks like it could take a ton of torque without being spun out.
Thank you for the video idea!
l would be interested in that to .
@@ProjectFarm Thanks for the videos, but I have to ask: What happened to you displaying the top products at the end of the video? It's just you sitting next to an empty table! o_O
That’d be cool. I’ve used them a few times. Really come in handy. Most recent instance was a DIY upgrade to extend the length of my table saw’s front rail. Worked really well and has held up without any issues.
Rivet nuts would definitely be a nice video
I get your testing; however, when my Dad cut threads, he would go a turn then back of. Then again and again. This allowed chip removal, and the set he bought 40+ years ago still look like new and work great. Almost certain the set is from Craftsman as that is all he bought unless the item wasn’t available from Craftsman, or our local Sears didn’t have it.
Modern tap and die sets are designed to feed shavings away from the threads. These sets were used exactly as the manufacturers intended. I've used older sets, and even my college professor told us to turn and back off, but it's really not necessary.
@@slayersabre5 I've had the Harbor Freight ones (easily the crappiest brand) for probably 20 years... Still work like new because I take my time and don't push them. My point being the back off method clearly is better unless you need to do tons of items all day long. I use mine mostly for automotive. I don't use a one turn then half back rule.. I go by feel.. if they are struggling I back out to clear and go again until I feel a struggle.
My dad was a machinist for nearly 40 years, and the best way he said to use taps and dies, is exactly as you say.
Run them in until you feel slight resistance, and back it out until you see the cut material fall out.
Then run it in again until you feel it once more, and this from a man with unlimited access to all that he needed, even if he busted one or two on every hole.
But he was a perfectionist, and believed that if you wanted the best fitment for your threads, then the slow and easy followed by reversing the tap or dies was the best way to achieve that goal.
Being as he did all the proof work for engineers before the prints were released for general shop use, I've pretty much taken his word for gospel on anything to do with that sort of thing.
I've got most of his tools, and the tap n die set are in a handmade wooden box with felt.
The outside has some darkening from machine coolant I assume, but the green felt looks brand new, and he passed in 1998, and had been retired for probably 10 years prior to that time, but I know he still uaed his taps and dies after his retirement.
Machinist here, you’re right. Taps should me turned reverse every couple turns to break the chip. Even if the flutes are designed to remove them, that only helps but not replace traditional procedure.
All the taps that were used are straight flute taps which require chip removal, easily done by hand. Normally machine taps with have a gun point or spiral flutes which will either push the chips forward ahead of the tap or pull them out the back through the flutes
I invested in Irwin sets a long time ago. What I have found is that carbon steel taps and dies are single use only. The teeth on the taps break when tapping steel. Over the years, I have purchased individual HHS taps made in the USA, replacing damaged taps in the set. The difference in cutting and longevity is amazing.
Thanks for the feedback.
I’m tempted to buy a set but think I’ll do as you did just buy as needed
It seems better for most things to buy as needed instead of a mass set. Kitchen knives and pots/pans sets made that clear to me a while back
I can't find a brand that make taps of HHS. Could you tell me wich one you buy?
@@Area51Motorcycles He most likely meant HSS which is high speed steel. You can get them from places like MSC
Obviously these tests are for pure strength and quality. I was taught as a steel fabricator by trade that when tapping by hand use plenty of cutting compound, keep straight as possible, and turn a 180-360 then reverse 90 or so till you feel the swarf break loose an repeat until hole is tapped. I have an el' cheapo set in the shed for around the house. Using this method gives me a nice clean thread and they have lasted years with occasional use. Sure it takes longer but works a treat. My boss that taught me was probably tight about replacing taps. However it works well and minimizes wear.
Thanks for the feedback.
Right on 26!@@ProjectFarm
me too back and forth not all one way
As an aircraft mechanic who does heavy maintenance I really appreciate the videos you put out. You help make my life and my coworkers lives much easier!
You are welcome! Glad to hear!
That makes two of us 😂
a machinist uses brands like DORMER OR BLUEPOINT, sure expensive but you have a tap that will cut 500 holes and pass a go/nogo Gage
@@kevinlloyd2707 I don't think I'm gonna be doing that many holes, but definitely good to know because then that means they'll last me a lifetime.
A&P here! My box is full of suggestions from project farm haha
Generally speaking, at least in the UK market, ones marketed as "carbon steel" are fit for chucking straight in the bin. HSS is the minimal viable material.
That's basically true, but if you're going to be chasing rusted or damaged EXISTING threads on cars and such, carbon steel taps aren't as easy to break as HSS. A broken tap, buried in a hard to reach spot on an engine block, is now your greatest nightmare. I will often run a worn carbon tap in first, then follow with HSS or better yet, cobalt HSS. As a machinist and a mechanic for over 50 years, I've removed more broken taps than most people have ever seen. 😊👍
@@outlawbillionairez9780 There are some good videos on here with lots of tricks to remove broken taps.. Let's Go Brandon!!!
@@twistedhillbilly6157
Don’t stain this great forum with politics. Take it elsewhere guys.
@@DonaldDump2024 > Take it elsewhere guys.
Guys plural? I only see one person who explicitly wrote about political matters in their comment.
@@outlawbillionairez9780 whats the go to method? Ive seen AvE use acid or something to loosen a broken tap. Ever tried that?
I was rooting for Irwin from the start and I’d have to say it didn’t let me down… They make really good tools for the price and they’ll last as long as you don’t abuse them. I love my Irwin tools. Definitely gonna have to pick up this tap and die kit.
Thanks for sharing.
Warning for those trying to source tools in the USA! I believe Irwin has given up on US manufacturing, lots of reports of getting mixed US/China taps and dies in sets, and the product pages no longer mention origin.
@@mrk8220 Wow that’s unbelievable
@@mrk8220of course that happened I swear none of this shit is made in the us anymore
Thank you for all the time you spend making your videos. It makes it easier to purchase tools while avoiding all the advertising and hype. Your effort is much appreciated by me and I am sure many, many others!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Irwin is known for its taps, have some that are 50 years old, still going. Irwin made the taps for ACE hardware years ago also.
Thanks for the feedback.
I know a guy that worked for the mothership at owns Irwin and if I remember correctly he said that Irwin makes snap-ons taps
@@FishFind3000 all tool trucks labeled sets are maked by them likely--definitely mac and snap-off
Known as in past tense. That was then and this is now. What I'm seeing now is nothing like it used to be.
That’s shocking to hear. The Irwin ones I bought are some of the worst I’ve ever used, and my job requires tapping holes daily so I’ve used quite a few
Now before I buy a tool I come to this channel to see if Project Farm has tested it. I am about to graduate as a Motorcycle Tech and buying lots of tools, this channel has helped me narrow down to what I need and where to spend and not to spend money when it comes to brands. Thanks PROJECT FARM!
Thank you very much!
A few ideas for future tests:
1) Rivet nut tools
2) Rivet nuts
3) Insulated coffee mugs
Thanks Todd, your videos are my “go to source” before I buy tools
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
I really would like to see the insulated coffee mug test too
Id be in for the rivet nut tool
Exactly what I was seeking. Thank you for being so fair and professional.
You are welcome! Great to hear!
This is also a great way to explain and understand “Slop” in a 4 wheel drive system when dealing with differentials. Preload, post load and running.
Thanks for the feedback.
Being a machinist, I would like to add that the fit check after initial tap test is a bit confusing. I've tapped thousands of holes. Maintaining a perpendicular axis at all times will make even the cheapest taps look great. The top wobble as you cut the threads is problem. I power tap on the lathe and the mill. Using a spring loaded tap guide can make them very nice and snug, just as you'd expect.
Too much side torque with that ratchet making an oblong thread. Tbh all these sets are junk anyway
The best taps...regrinds...from your friendly neighborhood Tool and Die guy
Im not a machinist but thought the same thing. Who really cares about the difference in torque required... It was a sloppy test with all that wobble. He should have done each tap using the press to ensure a good stable tap.
@@quimbymicheal Your favorite brand? Not sure if high quality taps/dies are still made?! I really like the antique Greenfield USA set of tap/die I have. They seem to last & last even on hardened steel (I use good cutting fluid every time)
@@MrRandyj72 ; The torque required shows just how well the tap was ground at the factory. The more accurate the tap is ground, the smoother the cut will be, torque requirement will be lower and the finish will be superior. So, that part of the test had some value. That wobbling was terrible and definitely would throw off the fit test.
Fun fact:snap on taps, which I'm pretty sure are made by Irwin, are warranteed for breakage but not against getting dull, which happens over time. So when they get dull, put them in a vise and break them with a hammer:instant warranty. We been doing this for years. This tip courtesy of my local snap on dealer
Last set I bought of my then Snap-On dealer wasn't branded as such, but rather Blue Point...
i hope you wear glasses lol. Hardened steel is not nice when you whack it with a hammer
@@Roy_Tellason I am concerned about Snap-On starting to market sub-brands in the same areas of tools as Snap-On themselves. Especially, that in some areas of Snap-On's tool lines those other brands are the the only brands offered... (Blue Point Tools) was one of the two companies involved (SnapOn Wrench Co) that established the Snap-On Tools brand, though Blue Point Tools technically ceased to exist after the merger - or were they the actual brand behind Snao-On's sockets the whole time?, and Snap-On decided to make them visible??, or are they a whole new company under a familiar name??? I-dunno, still not comforted by the whole arrangement.
@Roman agreed. He's just a young guy trying to build his business and so far he seems to be doing well. No bullshit. Much luck to him in future
I bought a Craftsman tap & die set years ago and it has served me very well. If I were looking to buy a new tap & die set today I would buy Craftsman again based on this video. Thanks for your awesome videos. Most of my tool purchases are now based on the results of your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
Wow! When I had mechanical engineering in 1973 we had 3 taps and dies for every thread! A starter, a medium and a finish. Side to side movements were practically nil! I still have a small set somewhere for metric M3 to M6. Getting a matching drill is now nearly impossible. And we were forced to cut all aluminum on a lathe just to uphold the tight tolerances.
Try McMasterCarr! They have a TON of drill sizes.
I think you mean a taper, plug, and bottoming tap...
@@kleetus92 Terminology appears to vary country to country. In the UK it's common to see taps termed taper, second, then plug
@@kleetus92 he is a mechanical engineer not a machinist lol
@@danand6907 LOL
Something to keep in mind is the H-limit (class of fit) to these taps. Most consumer sets are H-3 taps which is a fairly loose fit, as in the taps are actually larger than nominal.
Thank you for the feedback!
Exactly why you usually don't want to use standard taps for thread chasing, as they cut oversized. There are special taps for that, and other special threading needs. Any good machinist should know these things, but do we have such skilled people anymore?
@@loboheeler It also didn't help that he didn't back turn the tap to break the bur every rotation or so. This results in a worse cut and more force needed.
@@markp8295 He did that intentionally in these tests to simulate accelerated wear and abuse, and therefore find out which brands were toughest
@@magicoddeffect Someone buying the tools that will survive the most abuse instead of the tools that will best do the jobs says a lot more about the skills of the tool user than the tools.
Good to see those results as I normally use Irwin taps/dies. They are reasonably priced and I've always been happy with the results.
Thanks for sharing!
Another GREAT VIDEO from Project Farm!
Such thorough testing! Was nice seeing the exact same tap & die set that I own being tested, the Craftsman. Thanks for all the work you put into making these great videos!
Thanks and you are welcome!
after watching the entire video i still dont understand what a tap and die set is
@@glowytheglowbug A tap cuts threads (the lines of metal that hold a bolt and nut together) in a blank hole so that a bolt can screw into it. It can also be used to repair lightly damaged threads in a case or nut.
A die cuts threads on a shaft or rod so that a nut can go onto it. It can also be used to repair lightly damaged threads on a bolt or stud.
BTW, never put a tap through a die. The threads will seize up and the tools will break because they aren't exactly the same size, and they're made of a hardened material that won't flex.
@@Cuuniyevo ooh so one is for nuts one is for bolts/screws thanks!
Thanks for supporting the CCP..
I have two, 40-year-old, Vermont American sets, imperial and metric. They clearly are better quality than the same brand you bought and mine were US-made. Most of what they sell today in retail box stores is junk. I've recently bought some US-made individual taps from McMaster-Carr. Excellent quality.
Thanks for sharing.
McMaster can't afford to sell junk. Too many industries depend on them to provide usable goods. McMaster Carr, my favorite 'toy store'...
It is a problem to find quality taps and dies, unless you know the good brands. There are so many Chinese, junk like tools on the market.
@@GFTP100 Agreed, but the only problem with McMaster is that the shopping experience is geared toward engineers, and it can be a laborious process to zero in on the correct item for your need. They almost certainly sell that correct item, but you better damn well know how to ask for it!
It's okay if you like it. Test doesn't lie tho
I suggested this a while ago and you made it! Appreciate the video!
Thanks! Thanks for suggesting the video test.
I thank you for your time and effort. I understand what the main thought was for the test. It showed what a lot of us may have already known. Keep up the good work and plow ahead, you are doing great.
Thanks, will do!
The first problem I see is that these are, as expected, “hand taps”. Hand taps aren’t meant to be driven continuously through the material. You are supposed to turn forwards a turn or two (at the most), and then turn a half turn backwards to clear the chips. You need to do this until the entire thread is cut. That’s NOT what was done here. Therefore, these sets were not used properly.
I can’t take these sets seriously since they weren’t used properly. The other problem is the way he was tapping. Yes, he started the tap straight. But, in reality, you have to tap it straight. That’s not what he did. In order to get an accurately cut thread, you have to use a tap wrench with handles on both sides, applying pressure evenly on both handles, watching the tap while you’re tapping, so that it doesn’t wobble and make a bigger tapped hole.
With the dies, you are supposed to be doing these by hand as well, clearing chips as you go. Handheld die wrenches aren’t required to clear chips without some help.
I always recommend that people not buy these sets unless you almost never have to use them but have no idea which ones you will need when you do. Otherwise, buy spiral tooth taps that will allow you to tap continuously through making batter threads and much lower force. Buy what you need when you do. You’ll be happier in the long run.
I’ve just come on to say much the same thing 👍👍
Agreed (though it's "spiral flute" not "spiral tooth" taps).
@@PeregrineBF I said tooth to distinguish from spiral flute taps which are different, and used for blind holes, as they project the cutting out the back of the tap, towards you. Spiral taps, as they’re just usually called, or sometimes machine taps, or gun taps, have straight flutes, but the cutting teeth are at a short spiral at the cutting end. They push the cut strings forwards, out the front of the tap, through the hole.
This is a fair critique. The instructions for the pittsburgh tap do include the instructions that you should turn backwards to clear out the chips. I'd expect the others do as well, since AFAIK this is standard technique for hand taps. Standard advice as I recall from my father from 40+ years ago.
I agree. His tests are normally very good, but this one was a failure. The procedure for cutting both internal and external threads was completely wrong. You MUST clear the chips. You have to work slowly and get a feel for how your tap or die is cutting. Most people just drill a hole and use a tap like they’re installing a bolt into a threaded hole. No wonder they get poor results or a broken tap. There’s a great deal of finesse involved. In over 40 years of metalworking I’ve never broken a tap for three reasons: using quality taps, working slowly with a quality tapping fluid, a a lot of good luck.
Irwin and craftsman were the chosen ones. Having a teckton impact set I was sad to see the failure of the shaft of the tap. Very creative testing on your part as usual. One thing I would have like to see along with the overall price is the price per piece. The Irwin was a small set.
I agree, you might need something along the lines of $/in though. An extra 1/4" tap should be a lot cheaper than an extra 5/8" tap.
Thank you!
Machinist here too, I've had great luck with guhring drills and taps
I'd pick the Irwin as it still supports American jobs..
@@ProjectFarm Good effort to try this, but dang this is something really hard to do without some serious testing jigs. There were some obvious flaws in this and to be fair its a very hard thing to do.
On the taps you really needed to use a guide and keep them straight all the way through the hole when your testing for the torque. Its simply way to easy to get a tap out of alignment. At 9:33 its obvious the Pittsburgh (on the left) was not straight. If you do this again I'd suggest finding a way to use a spring loaded guide.
On the Dies and Nuts you cant just simply put a die in a vice as you did with the Draper (13:55). No matter how you set it up it will deform because its designed to deform. The fundamental difference between a nut and die is that split in the die allows the die to be compressed and cut deeper. In the proper handle you can start cutting a shallow thread with a die and then cut deeper by compressing the die. Putting that die in a vice compressed it and that's why the rod was so lose in the nut
In all the tests I have seen you do this was probably the hardest to do. So you get an A+ for attempting it and trying to be fair to the products.
I was one of the viewers that suggested a tap/die test, as usual you provided some great content and useful info. Thank you.
You are welcome! Thanks for suggesting the video test!
Second video of yours ive seen and loved. Great job, subbed!
Thanks! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
Another solid video! I can't get enough of these test reviews. So good at helping me make choices!
Thank you very much!
I'm still using the same Japanese made tap and die set that I bought used at a flea market in the mid 90's. But I have been considering a new, more complete set since some of my stuff has broken/worn out/got lost over the years. The Irwin or Century seem to be right in my wheel house for cost and function. Great timing with this video!
Thanks!
I have an old tap and die set I bought off Harbor Freight in the 90s made in Japan and it's a lot better than anything I'm seeing here. Was their top of the line back then. Think I paid $70 for it? 1/4 to 1" coarse and fine taps and dies. So pretty comprehensive set. I wish I'd bought the metric back then.
Exactly this, even a cheapish set of osborne or similar spiral point coated taps and drills at $60-80 make these sets look incredibly crude.
I’m pretty sold on the reliability and strength of my Century tsps and dies. Easy to find nowadays at OReilly’s.
I'm glad I bought a large Irwin set awhile back from somebody on marketplace for a hundred bucks. This set has everything though, not the small one
I learned my trade in the early sixties and all the taps we used or made were made of high speed steel not carbon steel and for the larger sizes >2" the blanks were hardened before we ground the taps. I would like to see how the spiral-fluted taps would compare. Great report.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
I own the Irwin because I felt at the time that it really punched above its cost, and I didn't want to spend $300 on a real set. I've never had an issue with it.
i'd love to see an episode on garbage bags - either kitchen or yard/lawn/construction bags, or both.
You cannot beat Irwin taps for the money. They hold up just as good as very expensive sets. They are the only ones I will buy.
Nice request!
Thanks for the video idea.
I agree, garbage bags would be interesting.
I never knew the Craftsman set was that pricey, I bought mine at a Sears that closed a few months ago for only $75, didn't realize I was buying one of better sets on the market, thank you for making me feel even better about my purchase lol.
You are welcome!
I bought this set too on sale and I’m glad I did. I’ve used it a few times and always performed well. When Sears owned Craftman it was an excellent ownership. They produced top notch stuff even the Chinese tools were good regardless of what people will tell you.
@@twinwankel You're absolutely right, Im not old enough to remember the "good ole Craftsman days" but I started working on cars as Sears was shutting down, and I bought alot of discounted stuff, and I've got no complaints, the set is great, and it's very precise for some of the really small stuff I gotta deal with at work, and even some of the new Lowe's stuff isnt bad at all either.
@@twinwankel Let me know if you ever use the near-fictional M3x0.6, M4x0.75, M5x0.9, M9 or M11 sizes.. Oh, and the M7x1 I've seen in exactly one application in the last 20 years.
Craftsman makes several different combinations of Tap & Die sets from around $40 and up.....
I have watched most of your tests and I would like to make a suggestion. You do an excellent report and you spend a lot of time preparing each project. Now when someone has watched the long test they really want you to spend a few minutes on the results. It seems after you do such a great job you want to end quickly, please spend more time on the results. Some of us print the end results in its that important. Thank you I love the way you do all of your tests.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
Been pondering this kind of tool a long while. Thanks for the excellent work!
You are welcome!
I'm a machinist by trade, and the tap brands you show are OK for very occasional emergency use. But if you're looking for higher precision and quality and are willing to pay more you want to go with brands like OSG, Emuge, greenfield or Guhring which can be bought through places like McMaster-Carr or MSC direct.
The horrible quality and burrs you showed on the close up of these cheap taps and dies, made me cringe, lol
Burrs in dies is always the hallmark of quality. Extra material! It used to be you could get hardware store tap and die sets that were so so. But this batch has lowered my expectations.
I make Greenfield taps.
I would be ashamed to make something so low quality as what was seen in this video.
I will recommend OSG taps til the day I die, their A brand is pricey but god damn they are amazing!
We use osg taps all day everyday but for hard material we use yg or emouge
My most cherished set of taps (3 for each size, including bottoming) are an old John Bath set (Worcester, MA). Sad to see all of the old-line US makers disappear.
This guy puts other reviewers” on TH-cam to shame. Excellent content as always
Thanks!
He is absolutely the best. Nothing like a product reviewer with bad case of obsessive compulsive disorder. 👍 😂
*This was a really good, useful review...I purchased my Craftsman set back when Craftsman was still made in the USA. It's at least 40 years old. I've never had to replace any of the taps or dies and in fact I've done nothing but add to it. I use it to cut threads in everything from hardwood to high carbon tool steel. Craftsman might cost a little more, but in the long run, they are well worth it. Especially if you can find an older set...Great quality and not overpriced like Snapon...*
Good to see you putting out videos again thanks for the info!!!
You are welcome!
Great testing as always! I purchased that exact Craftsman set around 5 or 6 years ago at a Sears on Black Friday for around $70. It's saved my butt many times and all taps and dies are still in perfect condition.
Thanks! Nice!
@@ProjectFarm Me too: Years ago I used two sets of Taps, and one of them was a Craftsman from around 1980... And found it consistently gave me the tightest fit in all the sizes. But most probably, Craftsman has changed on suppliers since 1980....
All of the tested sets are more for chasing/correcting threads than for cutting. High carbon steel is ok for aluminum and mild steel but none of them are really sharp enough for any serious project. Also, it is recommended to countersink holes prior to tapping to prevent damage to the leading threads like what happened to all the taps. I agree with others that the quality of these sets is revolting. As always though, nice work and thank you!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Absolutely!
Revolting ... that is the word I was looking for!
Taps and dies from an actual "tool and die" company in USA, Germany, or Japan look nothing like this junk.
@@kevinsellsit5584 Total junk! Made in China 🗑
@@kevinsellsit5584 what is a reputable brand to get tap and dies from? Im looking mostly to buy just one size (m2.5) and i want good quality that will last.
Awesome video, after purchasing the pittsburg before I found your I see the mistake I made. Thank for awesome effort and the great amount of detail you put into this video.
your videos are geting better and more professional. keep up the good work
Thanks, will do!
I think you should have left the Draper out of the test. This was a much needed video and perfect timing!, just two days after I broke one of those taps off in my part that took me a week to machine and cost me about $600 in tooling and material alone....smh.
You need real taps for the stuff you're doing, not these cheap generic ones. Greenfield is a good tool for the money.
@@rotorhead5826 lol... Your right, but I was tapping copper which really sucks to machine tap or anything else.
@@WarpedPerception its like a thermal clutch when drilling. geting a little hot and it grabs the drillbit. took me 9 drillbits and 14 atempts to get a 3mm hole in a piece of copper for a boost pipe on a turbo...
With correct use they are hard to break, even pros are often lazy to actually do some centering when tolerances is not an issue, and then sooner or later taps will break inside.
@@WarpedPerception I know how horrible copper can be. With the right tooling though everything gets much easier.
The problem I have with these sets is they are more for cleaning up threads as opposed to cutting new threads as a proper tap set comes with 3 taps at different removal settings with the first removing about a 1/3 of the material and the last one more for precise thread cutting making for a much better fit
Fit is based on the class of threads you can get a tight fit with one tap by just getting a different class of tap
That's where the Lang thread repair kits are amazing. I buy taps to cut threads.
@@TheHelp14 then please explain to me why tap sets come in sets of 3 and not just one especially when you put way more stress on the tap by trying to remove too much material as opposed to using the 3 tap set that contains a starter and bottom finisher tap I have worked in a engineering environment and would be laughed at if I turned up with one of these sets
@Inkman69 that's what I use for my electronic hobbyist, using only m3 and m4. Those tool sets are for amateurs even with bigger price
@@inkman6964 Most folks don't need plug and bottoming taps, so these sets are just fine. You can always make your own plug and bottoming taps by grinding off some or all of the leading edge.
Another great test.
Thanks for doing these.
Thanks and you are welcome!
thank you for another fantastic test, i hope you never stop what you are doing. i also hope you know you are well appreciated by many of us who like to buy high quality tools.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Taps are a perfect illustration of "Quality doesn't cost, it pays". Now that I have a full set, every tap I replace is the best quality I can find, because removing broken taps is no fun at all!
What full set do you recommend? I need to get one but am only buying once.
@@Mikesmeyer88 Sorry, that's like saying you're only buying drill bits or tires once. Taps are cutting tools and will dull with use. And continuing to use a worn-out tap is a sure way to break even a top-quality one. Buy a reasonable quality set and, as they wear out, replace them with top quality. Most people won't even use half the taps in a large set.
I agree. i quit like 3 stage taps as im in no rush to remove a broken one. I generally pay more for 1 good set of 3 taps than the sets in this vid
The integrity of the material one is cutting and tapping varies greatly also. I travelled nine states for a union contractor, founded in 1869, that manufactured and installed industrial and institutional heating, cooling, and process equipment.
I was lead service foreman and was also hands on in service and project management. We also designed and built our proprietary control systems.
Many of our bids required that all materials be sourced in the US. With power threaders we would occasionally get garbage raw stock that one just couldn't cut - it would seize, roll, and mutilate the stock.
I still have pipe dies with MANUAL handles from 1/8" up to 2 1/2" NPT, and taps/ dies to ridiculous diameters (most techs these days would run or faint!)
Was a lot of tough work but it was very rewarding. -- and then I fought fire, cut people out of their vehicles, ran EMS, dive team, and occasionally flew with medical helicopters to unwind after dealing with some of the people with too many framed documents on their plush office walls -----
** Definitely appreciate the effort and time put into these videos.
@@Mikesmeyer88 Do not buy a set. Even the best ones pale in comparison to a quality tap. Buy a tap when you need it and eventually you'll have a set.
As much as I love the variety that has been on here consistently, I do sometimes long for the vintage crazy engine vids. Watching am engine run on shampoo was entertaining as hell.
Thanks for the suggestion.
And to me, that’s all boring. Gotta run with what’s widely appealing.
Excellent presentation. Thorough testing , I especially liked the close-ups of the before and after. My personal assessment leaned towards Craftsman but that's just me. Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work. : , )
Thanks, will do!
i love your videos!
You're not gabbling around to fill 10 mins for monetizing, but comparing the tools objectivly and breaking it down to relevant points.
Thanks!
I wish I saw this video 6 months ago haha! I bought one from dewalt and it broke immediately. Should have known from all of your testing that over the years that Irwin would have been a great choice. Thanks for the great video.
irwin and dewalt part of same company but dewalts might be made by someone else. dewalt bad about licensing their name out to others as in their heated coats and roll around stools. all made by others
i bought my in germany while i was working there i payed it 100€ that was 4 years ago
You are welcome!
That Irwin is a brand that keep rising to the top, isn't it?
@@gizzyguzzi hopefully stanley brings it back from the mess rubbermaid made with it. the vise grip stuff was USA made until rubbermaid moved it to china.
Man, I just discovered this channel as an up and coming Canadian millwright apprentice, and gotta say these videos definitely narrow down what the best bang for your buck is! I only wish you would include Gray Tools in your tests, most of the old maintenance guys I work under swear by it.
Welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
Our shop has a Gray Tools tap & die set at work and a small socket rail. I find my personal Mastercraft Maximum tap & die set far superior (it looks very similar to the Craftsman set but it's titanium coated) and I don't find their sockets any better than say Stanley or Mastercraft, just hugely overpriced because they're made in Canada.. I could be out to lunch but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I shell out big bucks for Knipex and Wera hand tools because of the noticeable quality difference, but I don't think Gray's price is worth paying for
I mentioned spring steel in the bolt cutter video, you seen & liked my comment. I am so happy to see it being used in your videos now. It really puts metal tools to the test! 🤟
Thank you!
Thanks very much for this informative video. I have recently been looking at various T&D sets.
I know the high end quality sets are the best way to go but the price would put me in the poorhouse.
I dont need to thread many holes anymore so a cheaper set would do the job but i want the best cheap set
available. Your test has helped me to make a choice i could not make before. Thanks again. Very helpful.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Depending on how tightly you clamp the die, it has an effect on the threads. That's why there's an open slot on the die itself for thread depth adjustment
Why would it be adjustable because I have a big snapon set and there all adjustable dyes
@Bryan Wildeman different manufacturers have slightly different tolerances when cutting threads in nuts etc. The die wrench should have adjustment screws to squeeze the die and make it cut deeper or shallower threads to suit these differences.
Only one brand was a split die for cutting new threads; all the rest were for chasing existing threads. Same with the taps…typically you would have three taps to cut internal threads.
@@borysnijinski331 You would need three taps only if you wanted to tap a blind hole though
Hanson are still up there, but finding a good set is tough. Irwin seems to make the weirdest sets, so you have to buy two or three for some of the sizes. And I will say this again, Husky (and in general cheapo Chinese ones) suck. I don't care if they warranty them for life if it breaks the parts I was working on (whit the tap grenades).
Also, I will say, the die will clog going in all the way without backking up. The rule is do a few full turns, then back off half to one turn, which is why I do like the reversable ratcheting stock. For the die, once you use a Starrett, you won't go back. Those are NICE.
Thanks for the feedback.
@@ProjectFarm He is right, though.
Retail junk like Husky will usually break when you are miles from the nearest Harbor Freight location.
People who use your opinion to make actual real world decisions for tool purchases just don't care about the newest and neatest Ikon branded indexing ratchet.
This is another good video, as we've come to expect from you. Thank you.
One point I'd like to raise is that the bolt at 11:40 is cadmium plated rather than zinc. This generally only matters if you're going to sand or machine a lot of it, because cadmium is a poisonous heavy metal and breathing it in is very bad for you.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.
Are you sure they use Cadmium plating? Do you have any source for this? I don't doubt your information, but Cadmium is a lethal poison, and it's not something that they put on the exterior of products. It would be like coating bolts in lead, or arsenic, or beryllium.
This is my favorite site. Some guys who are subject matter experts beat you up a little. No worries. They know a lot about that one subject. Most of them flaunt their knowledge in a courteous way educating others who want to go that deep.
For the rest of us who on a broad talent and skill field want to do our best, jack of all trades - master of none, you hit the bulls eye.
Thanks for giving us knowledge to the equipment 99% of us jacks want, need and use. Good job!😊
Thanks and you are welcome!
I completely disagree. A tap & die set is a lifetime tool, unless you use in a machining tap. Proper use & care will allow even a cheap set to provide a lifetime of threading for the average home gamer.
It's the abuse & lack of proper use which kills taps & dies & produces sloppy threads.
I generally see good thought go into PF's & from a test/analysis point, he did a fair job here, what hosed it is a lack of knowledge.
It's why I have recommended to him a number of times he reach out to his audience & form a group who he can draw from for advice when he tests items he isn't sure he knows how to use correctly.
If you're honest w/ yourself, you know which skills you were taught by someone knowledgable & which ones you figured out enough to get done.
It would up the level of his vids & be much better content.
I have the Henry Hanson tap and die sets in my work box. Great quality, made in Worcester Mass.
Thanks for the feedback.
That's what I have., 👍. Unfortunately they got bought by Irwin, 👎
Dude, I’ve got the cheap Chinese one and it’s caused me so much heartburn over the years…. I gotta work twice as hard to make it work. I think this will be my next tool upgrade. Thanks for the video.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much for creating all of these videos. I have relied on them to make purchase decisions.
You are so welcome!
I would love for you guys to do a wrap-up or review style video at the end of every year going back over the recommended tools (or top 3) in each category based off of your tests.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Very impressive testing as usual PF! You really tapped into this one leaving no screw unturned. Hope that you & your family are doing well & staying safe! 👍👍😉😉👏👏
Thanks!
we see what you did there :)
Great work! Another video I love to see. Can i suggest something though? When checking how much "Movement" things have, Set up a dial indicator with the dial facing the screen, and get an accurate measurement like checking backlash of gears. This would improve the numbers comparison instead of relying on feel alone. Still awesome videos regardless, I'm glad you made this one, I have a thousand taps and dies and no complete "Set" yet.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm looks like you could do a video on cheap calipers and dial indicators
Was not expecting how much sideways play on the threads from some brands here. Really good information.
I have a mower where the brakes are controlled by steel rods instead of cables, now needing more thread to compensate for wear. I think the Irwin is a good bet because of the tolerances. Too loose and the bolt could back off from vibration, so it's important to get good fit while retaining adjustability. Thanks for the info-dense breakdown.
Thanks and you are welcome!
I have a Craftsman set. It is several years old but looks very similar to the one you tested. It has worked well for me. Nice to see it did so well in your experiment. An issue I have come across with cheaper sets is that some of the taps & dies are not cut to spec (Standard or Metric). They work with each other (if that makes sense) but don't expect a 3/8-16 bolt you bought at the hardware store to thread into a hole you tapped
Thanks for the feedback.
I knew a guy that used to do specialty tune-ups. He was so particular with his tune ups when he bought spark plugs at the parts store he took his microscope with him to check for cracks so small they aren't visible however close you look. It was amazing how he could walk into a parts store and only every 1 in 3 plugs had no cracks in them. I would like to see a video that tests tiny cracks in the plugs, or testing the difference between copper, iridium, and other types of plugs. Great video by the way.
Denso Iridium Power are supposedly the best ones, but of course a test would be great.
But also, usually the best bet is to stick with what the manufacturer recommends, because you can never really substitute one brand for another one to one.
@@pubbiehive From experience, I'd agree. I bought some E3 plugs for 2 of my cars about a year ago. After a year, one car is fine, the other car started having severe miss-fire problems. Replaced the plugs with the originals plugs with 50K miles, and the miss-fire went away.
Good quality plugs that last 70-100 thousand miles are somewhat expensive at $7-$12 a plug, so just buy the same plug the manufacturer put in and you won't have problems.
He actually has a video already testing lots of spark plugs if you've seen them but nothing about cracking tho
Just subscribed. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. I'm still thinking on going with the Gear Wrench brand for a budget set and upgrade to a much more professional setup later. Would be interesting to see the same test with a different size just for test consistency. Thanks again 👍🏻👍🏻
You are welcome! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
BTDT - recommend buying quality taps from the start. Just buy the size(s) you need the most for now & add to your collection later. Get only US made HSS from McMaster-Carr or MSC
one thing I've finally learned,if you buy the cheap one first you just add that much to the cost of buying the good one later.
Consistently excellent videos, thank you so much for helping me make good choices!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Excellent test! Appreciate the amount of time it took to do this and your methodology! I'm about ready to replace my aging chinese tap and die set. Irwin or Craftsman it shall be. Thank you!
Thanks!
I’ve got a combination metric SAE Craftsman tap and die set from the early 2000s when it was still made in America. I can’t tell you how much it’s been used over the years but it’s definitely a lot. Working in an auto shop brings lots of chances to use tap and dies. It cuts beautiful tight threads in everything from aluminum to lug bolt steel and has never failed. One of the 14mm dies has cut over 40 full lug bolts and aside from looking slightly used it still works perfectly fine. Absolutely love it and think it does a better job then any of the Snap On, Matco, Mac, gear wrench, and Cornwell sets that other technicians have.
I've got the same set. I'm a machinist and shade tree mechanic. Nothing bad to say about that set!
I have a blue cased metric and SAE Craftsman set from the 90's I bought new. Like you said very nice cutting set. I bet Irwin made them back in the day. Cheap China crap does not occupy my tool boxes.
@@libertystuffnthingsreviews829 yep my case is blue is well. My dad actually bought it for me as a present back in 2002 I believe. Literally can’t say enough good things about it.
Nice! Thanks for sharing.
made by irwin likely as are all of the labeled tool truck sets all owned by stanley
FINALLY! I've been looking forward to this for over a year! Thanks for making things happen for me :)
Sorry it's taken me so long and thank you!
@@ProjectFarm well worth the wait!
Fuzzy project farm fam
Great video thanks. Actually needed this info. Looking to get a set.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Working on Honda V6 J-SERIES engines, and being their only metric, I picked up the Irwin after we used up our other Tap and Die sets. As always, A+ video 🤙
Thank you!
love the videos would be really interested in seeing a video on breaker bars and ratchets. also think it would be cool to see a comparison between the newer cheep tools and a used nice tool of the same price. could help lots of people decide what’s the best deal in the long run when you can’t afford the high end new snap on or mac tools. As always love the videos and keep up the hard work!
Thanks, will do! Thanks for the video idea.
Oh boy, for tapping, you gotta chamfer the hole first, the burr on the edge of the hole can get into the flutes of the tap and bind it up, it also helps start the tap. Also, you must use a tap wrench to keep even pressure on the tap, using a ratchet there is too much side load and contributes to the poor thread formation. Additionally when tapping a tap guide is a must to keep the tap inline with the hole. Cheap ones can be bought on amazon. For the dies, the hex dies are not designed to cut threads! Hex dies are only for chasing threads. Plus when using a round thread cutting die it must be kept in perfect alignment or it will dig in and cut the threads undersized and have a poor fit. Dies should only be used in a jam, a thread cutting machine or lathe to single point cut the threads is preferred. I would like to know why no quality taps were used? Seeing Widia would of been nice since that's about as top shelf as it gets for taps. Also for hard metals you gotta use the correct cutting oil. We use tap magic xtra thick to tap inconel and it works great! As a machinist this was a painful video to watch.
I made same comment about cutting threads with closed die (only for chasing threads); split dies can be used to cut new threads. I’m not a machinist and I cringed watching closed dies being used to cut new threads (to think that an electrical engineer, i.e. me, knows this).
I was gifted that exact same Craftsman set probably 10 to 15 years ago. Been using it ever since. I definitely agree that it seems like a pretty nice kit. Never really given me any trouble. I'm not sure that I would have honestly spent that kind of money on it myself. But as a gift it's been amazing LOL.
Thank you very much!
What do you do when you break a tap? Do you just replace that specific one? Have you replaced them with matching craftsman ones, or other ones?
@@nerdnoise I don't think I've ever broken a tap. But on a couple of occasions I've needed a size tap that didn't come in the kit. In that scenario I usually just go to the local hardware store and pick up a name brand one like irwin and add it to my kit.
I doubt if it is the same set. They change manufacturers all the time. They use to be all USA, now who knows. The Craftsman set is not $220 at this time it is only $120. $100 if you can find it in a Sears store.
The amount of meticulous detail Todd goes to in every single video is astonishing. You are remarkable mate! Hats off 🤯
Thanks!
Todd is an Aussie and you are friends?
You do very good work and testing of products used out there 👍 very useful when it comes down to choosing a brand or product
Thank you!
Awesome videos, and usually I have no complaints. But this time I have concerns. Both the side-to-side tolerances and the torque needed are very sensitive to how straight the tap or die is and driving them by hand with no guides is going to make that vary a lot. In the sped up video you can see the some of the taps rocking from side to side and the rod didn't look straight in any of the die tests. I would recommend testing with a tap guide holding the tape straight to see if the side to side tolerances were better and for the rod to see if the dies lasted longer (though yeah, clearing chips would be fairer too).
That’s my complaint as well, torque testing with a wobbly setup then measuring the looseness of the bolt is not a great test. Too many variables. Doing a comparison like I the first test is fine but when you add measurements but use the same janky setup I think you invalidate the results.
Same with the die test. Performing a failure test intended to determine how far the rod will go is not the intended use of the die and shouldn’t be how you measure if you will get a tight fit under specified procedure.
I appreciate the work you go to for these videos. Having said that, this test isn't really a good comparison of the various tap and die sets. The tests you've subjected them to are torture tests - how long will they last under extreme conditions. It would be interesting (since you still have the rest of the sets left) to conduct a test where you use the taps and dies according to manufacturer recommendations, i.e., two to three turns and then backing the tap or die 1/2 to 3/4 turn to clear chips. I'd like to know which ones perform best under those conditions. It would also be interesting to tap some 1/2" mild steel and see which taps snap first.
Thank you!
Bro have you seen this guys vids before? Every week is a torture test
@TheCheesePlease a tap isn’t going to be strong no matter what, it might as well be good and make somewhat accurate threads, which it seems like all of these cheapoes really struggled at doing. If strength is a concern when you’re using taps or dies, you need to adjust your technique so you’re not breaking them. Chances are, based on your comment, you don’t actually use taps or dies, or else you would already know that.
Very adept suggestion. This as you said was a torture test and not how they should be used correctly. That being said I like my Irwin set of taps and dies and extractor set. Knock on wood have not broken any.
I picked up my Craftsman set 20 or 30 years ago. I don't make heavy use of it, but it's always done a great job when I've needed it.
Thanks for the feedback.
Great video. One of your best. Even got to see cousin Eddie’s RV! Keep up the great work.
Thank you!
Whenever I was tapping new threads I'd always double drill to get the best hole size tolerance. Going straight in with the final size drill bit is a recipe for oversized holes and a bad thread. As it stands we can't really know if the slop in the finished threads you made was from the tap or an oversized hole. Never go straight through the material with a tap. Quarter turn, back off to break the chip, another quarter turn. Split dies need to be adjusted to size in the die holder before use. You can't measure anything meaningful from them when held in a vice fully sprung open. I always used to use a new tap a few times in a hard material like cast iron or steel to remove any burrs before using them in aluminium. Any manufacturing defect will chew aluminium up in no time. Lubricant is a must. Paraffin or diesel on aluminium and tapping oil on ferrous materials.
Agreed on all points. I was watching this and wondering why we're torture testing precision tools. Swing and a miss from a normally thought out channel.
Maybe this was aimed at employers that need to see what happens with novice, unsupervised employees? "Looks like a drill bit, guess I'll use it like one."
At least im not the only one who backs out a 1/4 turn to break the chip
@@jason-ge5nr This was part of my training when learning how to tap threads. Saves a lot of wear on the tap, chips are small and can accumulate in the space between the cutters, and the tap doesnt get super hot. Taps heating up means they expand, making the thread less accurate.
My machinist education tells the opposite. If you want an accurate and straight hole, go straight to the correct size. I only drill in steps if it's necessary (drilling with a hand drill, part can't be clamped tight enough, not enough power in the machine etc). A small drillbit is more likely to drill a crooked hole, and there is no need to waste time with step drilling if its not necessary otherwise.
Tip about breaking chips with taps does applies for hand taps, but not any other tap types. Most quality taps push the chips either up or down though the hole and there is no need to break chip. The taps in this video are hand taps, so chip breaking should have been used.
@@Catrik nah. if the end goal is a quarter inch hole; then a 1/8th inch hole will not bother it at all. Unless of course your cambodian machinist education tells you otherwise.
Thanks for another great comparison test. Through a lifetime of hobbyist metalworking, I've learned that anything less than US-made HSS is a waste of time and money. These cheap sets may be OK for the occasional homeowner thread cleanup, but if you want good threads, good tap life, and avoiding broken taps, you have to pay for the quality. Anything "high carbon" or similar is good for nothing more than cleaning up existing threads. Anything Chinese is inherently junk.
I would have liked to see this test at least include a control reference consisting of something like a Kennametal, Cleveland, Greenfield, Union-Butterfield high quality tap.
It is also important to make sure the tap goes in straight by using a spring-loaded tap guide. Even after starting off from the drill press, if you wobble a bit or if you're off perpendicular by even a small amount, it makes a big difference in thread quality, tapping force, tap life, and not breaking your tap.
I've learned the hard way over the years that all these sets are basically junk, even for hobbyist metalworking. You can buy your taps one at a time as needed and have them in a day or 2 from MSC or McMaster-Carr. You'll pay more for one tap than for an entire set of these cheap Chinese taps, but believe me, it's worth it.
concur
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love all your tests it saves me a lot of time
Thanks!
Sir your knowledge and skills on testing products is totally magnificent. And you results is a game changer with all your subscribers.
Thank you very much!