I needed this. This is the best explanation I have heard on this. I am a catechumen to Orthodoxy but was questioning this. Thank you! Great explanation.
I’ve been looking into the orthodox religion for quite awhile. I can’t remember where I heard or read the “most holy theotokos save us” I do remember it being clarified that it’s another way to ask her to pray for us. I’ve always thought of her as having lived in the Lord’s presence on earth so it makes sense to me that she is thought of the queen of heaven 😎
While I can’t speak for him - here are my poor thoughts! For what little they are worth. Forgive any of my thoughts which are not in keeping with the Orthodox faith. what is it that Mary freely offered and cooperated with God in? What did she freely offer to God which United humanity and Divinity? What did the Logos…take from her and unite to Himself to become Theanthropos? If it was not a free choice and she had no import in the incarnation in anyone’s view, I leave you to that view. You will not be able to follow beyond here. Strongs concordance defines λυτρόω as also “figuratively to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner - i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor" this is seen in a ransom. How might λυτρῶσαι (Aorist Active Infinitive) relate to that saving (healing, restoring) work of Christ? Is the “random” / λυτρόω / propitiation more than we can imagine? What does it mean that Christ Jesus: “who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But emptied Himself, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross…”. Thought it not robbery (harpazó - ἁρπάζω) is the antonym of λυτρόω. “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.” If the ransom is a propitiation, what riches did He give and what was His state after the ransom? He was rich and became poor - emptied Himself and took on the form of a servant ….in the likeness of men. The ransom is given and he is made poor. He does not seize! He gives of His riches in exchange for something. Is this not speaking of the incarnation? And then he humbled Himself further to death, even death on a cross. λυτρῶσαι ends up becoming propitiate in the English language etymologically in the 1200s and it’s first known usage is in connection with the “mercy seat, place of atonement”," from Late root propitius "favorable, gracious, kind, well-disposed." *propro "on and on, ever further" It is thus related to Latin prope "near." The new Adam is enthroned on His hilaterion - mercy seat. What / who is the mercy seat? In my view the prayer is a statement of fact which is why it is in the Aorist active infinitive. Mary offered her flesh to God, and God took flesh and United it to Divinity. It is the anti-fall. The new Adam enthroned on his hilasterion - mercy seat - where through ransom / propitiation He enters into the flesh…and just keeps going; “propro "on and on, ever further". Mary is the propitiation in the sense of her participation in God’s self emptying; in the sense the words originally conveyed, the mercy seat - the place where man meets God face to face - and where He tabernacles with His people from the throne - where favor and graciousness is restored. A random is given by two parties! But the ransom given is not at all equal! The Logos ransoms (gives) His divinity to be brought down to humble poverty and servitude! And Mary ransoms (gives) her flesh for it (and all flesh) to be raised to richness. And even that flesh which she gave was always His gift to her, so she is offering back only that which was offered to her. “O marvelous exchange! Man’s Creator has become man, born of a virgin. We have been made sharers in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share in our humanity.”
I'm Orthodox but this sounds like cope. No offence, but this fails to justify it in my opinion. Furthermore, many of our prayers go further than that, calling her "my salvation", or asking her to "have mercy on us". Some of them even say things like "I have no helper but thee". Is this not blasphemous? Did Christ Himself not call the Holy Spirit the Helper, Whom He would send? How is this not Mariolatry and denial of God?
Thank you Father. Coming to Orthodoxy from a Baptist church, this was a difficult line to cross, initially. Not any more, though.
I needed this. This is the best explanation I have heard on this. I am a catechumen to Orthodoxy but was questioning this. Thank you! Great explanation.
Fr. Bless, Probably the best I've heard that explained since becoming Orthodox over 15yrs ago ☦️
Rejoice Most Holy Theotokos
Thank you father aidan thats such a beautiful and thoughtful way to describe this
I’ve been looking into the orthodox religion for quite awhile. I can’t remember where I heard or read the “most holy theotokos save us” I do remember it being clarified that it’s another way to ask her to pray for us. I’ve always thought of her as having lived in the Lord’s presence on earth so it makes sense to me that she is thought of the queen of heaven 😎
As a 68 yr old life long protestant, this was one of the big questions I had about the Orthodox church.
In my family my father is the nice one who I empathize with better whereas my mother is the stern one who disciplines me.
Thank you! Would you answer similar to this when we ask for her to propitiate for us? Please elaborate
While I can’t speak for him - here are my poor thoughts! For what little they are worth. Forgive any of my thoughts which are not in keeping with the Orthodox faith. what is it that Mary freely offered and cooperated with God in? What did she freely offer to God which United humanity and Divinity? What did the Logos…take from her and unite to Himself to become Theanthropos? If it was not a free choice and she had no import in the incarnation in anyone’s view, I leave you to that view. You will not be able to follow beyond here.
Strongs concordance defines λυτρόω as also “figuratively to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner - i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor" this is seen in a ransom. How might λυτρῶσαι (Aorist Active Infinitive) relate to that saving (healing, restoring) work of Christ? Is the “random” / λυτρόω / propitiation more than we can imagine? What does it mean that Christ Jesus: “who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But emptied Himself, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross…”. Thought it not robbery (harpazó - ἁρπάζω) is the antonym of λυτρόω. “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.”
If the ransom is a propitiation, what riches did He give and what was His state after the ransom? He was rich and became poor - emptied Himself and took on the form of a servant ….in the likeness of men. The ransom is given and he is made poor. He does not seize! He gives of His riches in exchange for something. Is this not speaking of the incarnation? And then he humbled Himself further to death, even death on a cross.
λυτρῶσαι ends up becoming propitiate in the English language etymologically in the 1200s and it’s first known usage is in connection with the “mercy seat, place of atonement”," from Late root propitius "favorable, gracious, kind, well-disposed." *propro "on and on, ever further" It is thus related to Latin prope "near." The new Adam is enthroned on His hilaterion - mercy seat. What / who is the mercy seat?
In my view the prayer is a statement of fact which is why it is in the Aorist active infinitive. Mary offered her flesh to God, and God took flesh and United it to Divinity. It is the anti-fall. The new Adam enthroned on his hilasterion - mercy seat - where through ransom / propitiation He enters into the flesh…and just keeps going; “propro "on and on, ever further". Mary is the propitiation in the sense of her participation in God’s self emptying; in the sense the words originally conveyed, the mercy seat - the place where man meets God face to face - and where He tabernacles with His people from the throne - where favor and graciousness is restored. A random is given by two parties! But the ransom given is not at all equal! The Logos ransoms (gives) His divinity to be brought down to humble poverty and servitude! And Mary ransoms (gives) her flesh for it (and all flesh) to be raised to richness. And even that flesh which she gave was always His gift to her, so she is offering back only that which was offered to her.
“O marvelous exchange! Man’s Creator has become man, born of a virgin. We have been made sharers in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share in our humanity.”
I'm Orthodox but this sounds like cope. No offence, but this fails to justify it in my opinion.
Furthermore, many of our prayers go further than that, calling her "my salvation", or asking her to "have mercy on us".
Some of them even say things like "I have no helper but thee". Is this not blasphemous? Did Christ Himself not call the Holy Spirit the Helper, Whom He would send? How is this not Mariolatry and denial of God?