"i played puff, marth, spacies, i don't believe i would have won if i had played a better character" man you're literally playing the best characters, which character are you gonna pick that is better than those?
You dont understand what he saying. Hes saying that he didn't think he lost because of his character flaws, he thought he lost because of himself/ his opponents play.
@@Michael-vz6vd Right, and Aguni is pointing out that he only referred to the top tier characters, ie: the characters with the fewest flaws. He then stated that floaties are objectively better, which would be him making a tier list with floaties at the top, then reclarified that he meant "Only the good floaties" so he clarified his tier list with Puff and Peach as top tiers. He's also sampling from only the strongest players. The pool size is so small that individual strengths and weaknesses can overshine character strengths and weaknesses.
He's making an assumption there could be a better character than the one he's currently using. The point is, he doesn't think he lost because of character choice.
In a practical sense, they're hard to play against. mango has also said many times that he needs to practice more and take the game more seriously in order to win because the matchup is hard to execute.
The Clean One he never said objectively better, he said better for tournaments, which is how an official tier list should be made. He admits Spacies are the better character but not for tournaments.
I tend to agree with almost anything armada says, but putting peach below captain falcon is just ego, it’s like saying “i won all these majors with a mediocre character”, NO! lol
@@hamiltonnewhart3053 He beat drunk Mang0. And then they were supposed to rematch, but M2K said no, so Mang0 got drunk again. Then M2K said, he wanted to iron man. So both times they did a full man iron man, Mang0 was wasted.
lmao everyone in the comments is missing the point of what he's saying. on paper sure, there are characters that are objectively better than others but his point is is that they're way harder to be consistent with which is why he doesn't like the idea of an actual tier list
Deba if you say you don’t believe in tier lists then proceed to rank the characters in an order that ranks from most viable to least viable then you have formed a tier list that you believe in thus contradicting yourself. That is the point I am making.
Manga just salty cause armada trashes him. The fox ditto is irrelevant since 1) Armadas peach beats mangos anything free and 2) Armada only picked up fox for hbox and leffen. Also leffen trashes armads peach so other spacies have no excuse. Armadas the only top player with a winning record on hbox and hbox plays against foxes all the time, its just that armadas fox is tuned for hbox specifically.
“Melee players never lost and said ‘Man if i had played Fox i would have won’” Lmao Hax$ literally dropped Falcon for Fox because he thought Falcon was unviable
In Tekken there are characters that resemble the spacies archetypes known as "Mishimas". The consensus is that Mishimas are the strongest characters, but because of their execution, they arent past everyone in the tierlist in tournament settings. The idea behind this is that in a tournament setting, you will have to perform high level execution combos in tekken throughout the tournament. So in tekken, it takes on average three full combos to win a round. This means you have to land 100+ well perfectly executed combo to use the character effeciently and can't messup in a tournament. Thats the same with spacies. Yes you can dominate your opponent and keep up your high level execution, but can you do that in a tournament setting with 500+ entrants? Can you also keep that up given that some matches will go to a game 3 or 5???? Now take puff for instance. Her gameplan is simple with very little execution. In that sense, you can push puff to her highest potential easily rather than a spacie. Oh all you have to do is space back airs and do simple confirms to win a tournament where a spacie has to do insane combos for every match they play.
Christopher Nem thank you, some people don’t get how difficult spacies are especially in lower level tournaments where you have to grind to get to a competing standard and even then you have to be so consistent which is very hard to do.
jack cobano id agree with you if facts didn’t contradict ur statement. Hungrybox has destroyed too many spacies at the top level to consider puff vs spacies a losing matchup. This is at the top level. Now spacies does have strong tools against puff like you stated, but no way in hell does that make puff lose a matchup. Puff has just as strong tools. Edgeguarding or recovery. How far can puff push her advantage stage against a spacie. Puff can constantly perform retreating Bairs if she is afraid of mispacing since it’s actually hard to punish on whiff
@@starter497 Yeah that's true but I think that Hungrybox is just very experienced with the spacies matchup while his opponents aren't too familiar with jigglypuff tbh.
He sounds like hes contradicting, but I think hes trying to say:(in my humble opinion) Basically tier lists don't matter because people will adjust it on opinion/tournament wins/generally popular/dominant characters. Theres too many perspectives on how its constructed. There are obviously better characters(technically), but a list won't determine the winner. Puff is good because of the people who made her good. Any character/player will loose agaisnt perfect frame, parries and predictability. Skill is king and the prove is in Puff and Plups Samus as well as Axes pikachu. So he is talking about player vs character. Some sort of genius brain can use Pichu in any matchup and win with a perfect gameplan, perfect spacing, parry, whatever. Skill is king. Tier list is seperate from that. So it doesn't matter if your a fruit. Don't hate me, I'm just trying my best to understand the crazyiness that is mang0. I think he makes sense, hes just not verbalizing the missing pieces we need to make sense of it, which he does often.... I was going to say maybe tier lists can be more accurate if you just place statistics like, power/speed/recovery into numbers. Then the highest number may be the "top tier" technically, but the character weight and combo ability is still makes the character uniquely different to every player(as your mind creates a playstyle) and so that number(or list) just becomes another debate. Maybe you can slap a difficulty rating but thats more debatable. But thats the issue, any list is debatable. Its what makes melee awesome I guess, its up to the player. Look at Ultimate, everyone is making teir lists while Mkleo is crushing everyone with lucina(a character that seems a bit above average according to some lists that I've seen). So anyway.. just... skill. Idk.
@@jacobpullen6949 That's why I stopped watching Melee. It's the same exact thing all the time and there is no way for the bottom 8 to get results because of how unfair Melee's quirks are for them and how scared everyone is to use them.
The stage is a canvas and Fox is a paintbrush. You can do whatever you want with the character, and he has the highest ceiling of raw mechanical skill.
Because a lot of people are lame and only try to exploit there way to the top ... and hearing fox is top tier makes people more inclined to feel no shame in using him with the sole intent to exploit his broken aspects even if that means learning a minimized form of fox with no intent on trying to fully optimize but to just do well enough to be the best or win at any cost that wouldnt be possible with use of any other character. Just to beat people who may even be subjectively better than them. Same reason people opt to wobble honestly or camp. Same reason people stream snipe streamers (capitalize on an advantage they have over streamers for clout knowing that the streamer is definitely better than them.) No shame in your game is how I see it. And a lot of sugar coating things and masking the reality of the situations that present themselves. People like to hide behind social construct and accepted ideas solely because majority believes something and tend to not want to hold their own ideas and opinions. That's what leads people to believe tier lists are matter of fact without understanding its social construct and solely opinionated and set to impose an opinion on a bunch of weak minded people who neglect to think for themselves. The same people who ask for advice on how to get better constantly without putting any mental effort in themselves show that without advice from someone notable or credible they lack the wit to problem solve or come up with their own solutions furthermore showing a severe lack of understanding on complex matters and constantly trying to improperly simplify things that require a deeper thought and a lot more consideration. Most likely due to the fear of holding an unpopular opinion (constantly trying to be politically correct instead of striving for absolute correctness). The fear of isolation or feeling outted. The lack of understanding that it's okay to be different especially if you know you have a deeper understanding of something that makes sense entirely to you despite the fact people dont care to understand or listen. And if you are wrong man up enough to acknowledge it and improve your view and dont try every way possible to be stubborn and hold your ground on how right you are knowing you arent ... that leads no where. The innermacinations of my mind is an enigma. Food for thought I meant nothing bad from this. If you dont understand just respectfully say so or say nothing at all I guess. no point if it's just to refute I'm comfortable with knowing I'm on the right track with my thinking.
People have different intentions btw ... so there are some outliers of people who dont just use fox or o th her top characters as an exploit. But then there are the m2ks that try everything in their power to minimize effort and exploit and make a career out of it which hinders you from improving mentally hence why of the top players he has the worst mindset.
I am just gonna say I think the space bros are the best and have the highest potential just like non ideal playing conditions affect them more ALSO they are the most practiced against
Mango's right that floaties are the best in a pure tournament setting. You don't have to really DI amazingly to get out of combos as a floaty, you have the ability to slow down the game state and play neutral over and over until you win the match, and you're never at risk of straight of dying just because you got off the stage one time. These factors don't matter in friendlies, but if you add the pressure of playing a tournament, these things are huge, and especially when you have to play on point every single game of a tournament. Consistency has always outweighed power in competitive play. This is true of every single competitive thing in the world. Spacies clearly have all the power and combo game in the world, but floaties have the ability to play an easier game, which makes every match more consistent.
@@DarKiRage.13 Are you actually serious? He was a joke in every ultimate tournament. Every other player who fought him basically said this while laughing "fucking Mango dude". The size of this man's ego makes me dislike him a lot. The fact that this fucker said M2K didn't win many tournaments even in his prime is a fucking joke just like his existence in the community. He fucking says I don't believe in tier lists but he proceeds to say some people are carried by their character. Are you fucking serious? How fucking stupid is he?
.... The reason why Armada doesn't have as many tournament results with fox than with peach IS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T NEED TO PRACTICE FOX THAT MUCH, SINCE HE PLAYS/MAINS PEACH REALLY WELL, AND WHEN HE DOES PLAY FOX HE'S JUST BEING DESPERATE OR PLAYING LEFFEN OR JIGS
He literally only picked up fox for hbox and leffen, mango conviently left that out because armada goes peach against everyone else because they are all free.
"i dont believe in tier lists" goes on to say some characters are better than others, and how playing one is harder to win. wtf mango, haven't you played this game long enough to have an informed opinion yet?
So he plays the top 4 best characters in the game then says "Man if only I played a better character." Well no shit Mango, there's no where else to go but up.
"Just look at Armada's Fox the few results it has against anyone that weren't Hbox, he never beat me, I destroyed his Fox" Apex 2015: Am I a joke to you?
That's cuz HE is a giant meme. I fail to see how this man doesn't realize that he isn't respected the same way as someone like M2K or ZeRo in the community.
tier lists are an amalgamation of all knowledge about characters. when people find new things with characters, tier lists change. it's not like any single tier list is totally definitive and static.
Here's a link to Armada's Fox beating mang0's Falco 2:07 "it never beat me." th-cam.com/video/HMUDfLGQ6gE/w-d-xo.html Glad mango always destroys his Fox. 6:48 "you can't just base it off one matchup" Is basing it off him beating Armada which is just one matchup.
you misspelt Leffen s2j isn't even the sickest falcon, n0ne is sicker, and jeapie was sicker until he quit. hax and westballz also arguably sicker than s2j.
Mang0 what the hell are you talking about the entire video dude, basically this whole video is “tier list are bullshit even though I play all the high tier characters and also I’m the best everyone else sucks”
How does Armada's fox being worse mean he was carried by peach? Peach is his main, and I've only really seen his fox notably as a counterpick for hbox. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure its obvious you're going to be better with the character you put time into over a pocket character
I think that from a purely technical and max capability standpoint species are best but since everyone knows the spacie matchup and playstyles so well at this point since they overestimate them that kinda screws them over in tournament since most top players find ways to counter them.
The technical skills required to pilot Spacies to their potential is impractical for most players. Characters like Marth and Falcon see success because their kits are straight to the point. The room for error in playing a character is what makes a character more comfortable in a tournament setting. Not saying Spacies are bad, but most people in general can't play consistent and perfectly each game with Spacies due to their difficulty in technical execution.
So apparently no one understands what he's trying to say. He's basically saying playing strictly based off counterpicking your oppenent is bad, not that characters are all equal so tier list don't matter. Tier list don't matter in the sense if you just keep playing different characters to have an "advantage", you will do worse than some one who know all the matchups for one character.
“I used to camp Hbox/Armada and they couldn’t touch me and I fucked them up” wow it’s almost like when spacies decide to camp against floaties, like they should, they beat them. Looks like Jigglypuff/Peach aren’t unilaterally better than Fox/Falco in tournaments.
Whens the last time some1 won without fox, falco, falcon, marth? there is one picachu, we dont get much peach or sheik any more so yeah tier list do exist in melee especially
And what results has he had? Or what name did he make for himself? He gave up his roots cause he had a bad mentality and no one even remembers his legacy. That being said his hands are fucked so I'm glad he found a way to keep playing
@@darkstar4450 recovered from his wrist surgery, got sponsored, manufactured and advertised his own controller, created and successfully crowdfunded a hardware replacement for ucf, wrote a comprehensive ruleset for alternate controllers, consistently held the #1 rank in the NYC power rankings, went to summit twice, won dreamhack atlanta doubles, got 4th at battle of bc3 beating sfat and this is AFTER suffering a bone shattering wrist injury and surgery. Immediately after switching to Fox he got 2nd at zenith, 5th at Big House 4, 2nd at GOML. If he hadn't got injured, he would be a god by now.
Idk why people say fox is better than Falco. I think the simple fact, stun on laser(&up throw), spike on drill. Higher jump. +shine Gives more control over ur opponents movement. Yea maybe fox in the beginning could beat falco in a tournament. Idk Edit ; wow just 30 seconds later 10:20 he says screw Amsa. And ends up losing a supermajor to him.
I think tier lists are a thing. They're just organized opinions. What people tend to forget is that opinions are 1.) not the same across different players and 2.) can change throughout tournies and events that happens 3.) with buffs and nerfs that come along the way I think that ultimately, there are so many moving parts and things unexplored that is when we see big rises to characters like Ganon and G&W who go from being considered generally low-ish tier to mid tier, and people like Ken and Ryu who go from looking mid tier to looking closer to low tier (their lack of engagement options is clear imo and my friend pointed out because they're almost too faithful to their own series where people are movin across a whole stage
Tier lists dont matter bc i only play fox and falco -mango
Matt Bergz you know he played puff, marth and mario right?
@@discket1tu | correction: Mango does not play Mario, Scorp plays Mario.
Ramsey Mathews okay Marth and Puff are also top tier, and he doesnt play mario
he plays falcon too
Ramsey Mathews don’t forget falcon and even Link a few times
"Tiers don't exists" *"Samus is a bad character"*
He who fears.
Speaks to no ears.
-samus fearers
“If only I played a better character” - every Link player, ever.
F
Also Roy...
😢 truf
"i played puff, marth, spacies, i don't believe i would have won if i had played a better character" man you're literally playing the best characters, which character are you gonna pick that is better than those?
You dont understand what he saying. Hes saying that he didn't think he lost because of his character flaws, he thought he lost because of himself/ his opponents play.
@@Michael-vz6vd Right, and Aguni is pointing out that he only referred to the top tier characters, ie: the characters with the fewest flaws. He then stated that floaties are objectively better, which would be him making a tier list with floaties at the top, then reclarified that he meant "Only the good floaties" so he clarified his tier list with Puff and Peach as top tiers. He's also sampling from only the strongest players. The pool size is so small that individual strengths and weaknesses can overshine character strengths and weaknesses.
He's making an assumption there could be a better character than the one he's currently using. The point is, he doesn't think he lost because of character choice.
Just gotta look at Scorpion Master
Kirby
"HBox is carried by Puff"
"M2K is carried by the entire roster and choosing the best match-up"
broke: Hungrybox is carried by Puff
woke: Armada is carried by Peach
I was listening until “M2K won very few tournaments, even in his prime.”
Apparently Mango has a POOR ass memory.
That's where I lot all respect for him. He does realize that he is a meme in the community, right? what an egoist.
its true though
It’s true
@@alanlight2715 yes, arguably the greatest of all time is a meme in the community LOL shut the fuck up
@@neuro3697 buddy this video is 5 months old good luck getting a reply
0:19
Did you mean: *Hax$*
How’s mango going to say that the better character never wins but then says Armada is carried by peach and floaties are objectively better?
He is trying to protect his ego. He is trying to say that everyone is carried by their characters besides him.
In a practical sense, they're hard to play against. mango has also said many times that he needs to practice more and take the game more seriously in order to win because the matchup is hard to execute.
Because Mango is charismatic, funny, and infinitely likable - but he definitely isn't intelligent rofl.
The Clean One he said that Armada can’t say that Peach is bad cause he always underrates peach
The Clean One he never said objectively better, he said better for tournaments, which is how an official tier list should be made. He admits Spacies are the better character but not for tournaments.
I tend to agree with almost anything armada says, but putting peach below captain falcon is just ego, it’s like saying “i won all these majors with a mediocre character”, NO! lol
Falcon over Peach makes sense now...
Yeah but who else aside from him is/was doing consistently well at tournies. There's been way more top level falcon players than peach players.
@@sebz8362 cuz falcons sick
M2K vs Mango Iron man would be a lot closer now
You kidding me? As much as I love m2k he would absolutely get fucked right now.
Did m2k win an iron man?
@@hamiltonnewhart3053 He beat drunk Mang0. And then they were supposed to rematch, but M2K said no, so Mang0 got drunk again. Then M2K said, he wanted to iron man. So both times they did a full man iron man, Mang0 was wasted.
@@rambo3rd471 then they actually had a proper tournament set iron Man and mango made him his bitch lol
Mang0 didn't make sense but made sense at the same time LOL
'I dont believe in tier lists.'
'Armada got carried by peach.'
He's saying that Peach is better despite being lower than spacies
I wanna see Mang0 win a major with Bowser and Zelda.
Im sure he has a point but he contradicts himself so much in this video.
lmao everyone in the comments is missing the point of what he's saying. on paper sure, there are characters that are objectively better than others but his point is is that they're way harder to be consistent with which is why he doesn't like the idea of an actual tier list
mango plot armor
Love you Mango but you say you dont believe in tier lists then proceed to rank them haha
That has nothing to do with it but ok
Deba you’re kidding me right? Haha
@@vincents.2763 What about Tekken?, it's a common phrase to say that tierlists don't matter, but there's a lot of tierlists anyway
You can do tierlists just for the fun of it
Deba if you say you don’t believe in tier lists then proceed to rank the characters in an order that ranks from most viable to least viable then you have formed a tier list that you believe in thus contradicting yourself. That is the point I am making.
Manga just salty cause armada trashes him. The fox ditto is irrelevant since 1) Armadas peach beats mangos anything free and 2) Armada only picked up fox for hbox and leffen. Also leffen trashes armads peach so other spacies have no excuse. Armadas the only top player with a winning record on hbox and hbox plays against foxes all the time, its just that armadas fox is tuned for hbox specifically.
@Awakened Virtue mew2king
samus is so sick. I find her very fun to play
“Melee players never lost and said ‘Man if i had played Fox i would have won’”
Lmao Hax$ literally dropped Falcon for Fox because he thought Falcon was unviable
he started doing worse after that tho LOL
In Tekken there are characters that resemble the spacies archetypes known as "Mishimas". The consensus is that Mishimas are the strongest characters, but because of their execution, they arent past everyone in the tierlist in tournament settings. The idea behind this is that in a tournament setting, you will have to perform high level execution combos in tekken throughout the tournament. So in tekken, it takes on average three full combos to win a round. This means you have to land 100+ well perfectly executed combo to use the character effeciently and can't messup in a tournament. Thats the same with spacies. Yes you can dominate your opponent and keep up your high level execution, but can you do that in a tournament setting with 500+ entrants? Can you also keep that up given that some matches will go to a game 3 or 5???? Now take puff for instance. Her gameplan is simple with very little execution. In that sense, you can push puff to her highest potential easily rather than a spacie. Oh all you have to do is space back airs and do simple confirms to win a tournament where a spacie has to do insane combos for every match they play.
Christopher Nem thank you, some people don’t get how difficult spacies are especially in lower level tournaments where you have to grind to get to a competing standard and even then you have to be so consistent which is very hard to do.
Puff isn't given as many options as fox and is very easy to kill if you miss space aerials. Puff also loses to spacies because of this
jack cobano id agree with you if facts didn’t contradict ur statement. Hungrybox has destroyed too many spacies at the top level to consider puff vs spacies a losing matchup. This is at the top level. Now spacies does have strong tools against puff like you stated, but no way in hell does that make puff lose a matchup. Puff has just as strong tools. Edgeguarding or recovery. How far can puff push her advantage stage against a spacie. Puff can constantly perform retreating Bairs if she is afraid of mispacing since it’s actually hard to punish on whiff
@@starter497 Yeah that's true but I think that Hungrybox is just very experienced with the spacies matchup while his opponents aren't too familiar with jigglypuff tbh.
@@starter497 Hbox also doesn't play friendlies so that makes it harder to play against him
He sounds like hes contradicting, but I think hes trying to say:(in my humble opinion)
Basically tier lists don't matter because people will adjust it on opinion/tournament wins/generally popular/dominant characters. Theres too many perspectives on how its constructed. There are obviously better characters(technically), but a list won't determine the winner. Puff is good because of the people who made her good. Any character/player will loose agaisnt perfect frame, parries and predictability. Skill is king and the prove is in Puff and Plups Samus as well as Axes pikachu. So he is talking about player vs character. Some sort of genius brain can use Pichu in any matchup and win with a perfect gameplan, perfect spacing, parry, whatever. Skill is king. Tier list is seperate from that. So it doesn't matter if your a fruit.
Don't hate me, I'm just trying my best to understand the crazyiness that is mang0. I think he makes sense, hes just not verbalizing the missing pieces we need to make sense of it, which he does often....
I was going to say maybe tier lists can be more accurate if you just place statistics like, power/speed/recovery into
numbers. Then the highest number may be the "top tier" technically, but the character weight and combo ability is still makes the character uniquely different to every player(as your mind creates a playstyle) and so that number(or list) just becomes another debate.
Maybe you can slap a difficulty rating but thats more debatable.
But thats the issue, any list is debatable. Its what makes melee awesome I guess, its up to the player.
Look at Ultimate, everyone is making teir lists while Mkleo is crushing everyone with lucina(a character that seems a bit above average according to some lists that I've seen). So anyway.. just... skill. Idk.
the difference is the skill cap between different characters. there is more potential for great plays with better characters.
Melee players never say that because everyone only ever plays the same 5 characters
Jacob Pullen what’s wrong with that
Carson Torres Nothing. All the top tiers outside of Puff are hype as fuck
@@jacobpullen6949
That's why I stopped watching Melee.
It's the same exact thing all the time and there is no way for the bottom 8 to get results because of how unfair Melee's quirks are for them and how scared everyone is to use them.
More top 8 variety at Pound 5 than Ultimate after 20 yrs/4 months. ;)
of course Mang0 "doesn't believe in tier lists". he's only ever mained top tier characters
Puff was considered a very bad character at the time he dominated with puff
@@oosh9057 Right but he knew she was dope and now we all know Puff is top tier so like I said, of course he doesn't believe in tier lists.
@@esbluetheprototype are we still pretending scorp is a different person in 2019?
I was about to point out scorp, won a couple tourneys with Mario and had even games with other top players
@@oosh9057 "being considered" does not mean it is. That is like stating you used to main fox before he was flagged as broken.
If this is true why is fox the most represented character in the top 100?
The stage is a canvas and Fox is a paintbrush. You can do whatever you want with the character, and he has the highest ceiling of raw mechanical skill.
Fox is fun af. Thats why
Because a lot of people are lame and only try to exploit there way to the top ... and hearing fox is top tier makes people more inclined to feel no shame in using him with the sole intent to exploit his broken aspects even if that means learning a minimized form of fox with no intent on trying to fully optimize but to just do well enough to be the best or win at any cost that wouldnt be possible with use of any other character. Just to beat people who may even be subjectively better than them. Same reason people opt to wobble honestly or camp. Same reason people stream snipe streamers (capitalize on an advantage they have over streamers for clout knowing that the streamer is definitely better than them.)
No shame in your game is how I see it. And a lot of sugar coating things and masking the reality of the situations that present themselves. People like to hide behind social construct and accepted ideas solely because majority believes something and tend to not want to hold their own ideas and opinions. That's what leads people to believe tier lists are matter of fact without understanding its social construct and solely opinionated and set to impose an opinion on a bunch of weak minded people who neglect to think for themselves. The same people who ask for advice on how to get better constantly without putting any mental effort in themselves show that without advice from someone notable or credible they lack the wit to problem solve or come up with their own solutions furthermore showing a severe lack of understanding on complex matters and constantly trying to improperly simplify things that require a deeper thought and a lot more consideration. Most likely due to the fear of holding an unpopular opinion (constantly trying to be politically correct instead of striving for absolute correctness). The fear of isolation or feeling outted. The lack of understanding that it's okay to be different especially if you know you have a deeper understanding of something that makes sense entirely to you despite the fact people dont care to understand or listen. And if you are wrong man up enough to acknowledge it and improve your view and dont try every way possible to be stubborn and hold your ground on how right you are knowing you arent ... that leads no where.
The innermacinations of my mind is an enigma.
Food for thought I meant nothing bad from this. If you dont understand just respectfully say so or say nothing at all I guess. no point if it's just to refute I'm comfortable with knowing I'm on the right track with my thinking.
People have different intentions btw ... so there are some outliers of people who dont just use fox or o th her top characters as an exploit.
But then there are the m2ks that try everything in their power to minimize effort and exploit and make a career out of it which hinders you from improving mentally hence why of the top players he has the worst mindset.
Talking about the history of melee gets me hella nostalgic. Good ass vid right here
9:55 after mango it's axe, amsa and johnny. they always style when they can and play super inventive
Is there a way to play melee online on a pc?
It's called Netplay
Anethers ladder
download Faster Melee (an offshoot of dolphin emulator with improved netplay support), torrent an iso of Melee NTSC 1.02, play
I am just gonna say I think the space bros are the best and have the highest potential just like non ideal playing conditions affect them more ALSO they are the most practiced against
Mango's right that floaties are the best in a pure tournament setting. You don't have to really DI amazingly to get out of combos as a floaty, you have the ability to slow down the game state and play neutral over and over until you win the match, and you're never at risk of straight of dying just because you got off the stage one time. These factors don't matter in friendlies, but if you add the pressure of playing a tournament, these things are huge, and especially when you have to play on point every single game of a tournament. Consistency has always outweighed power in competitive play. This is true of every single competitive thing in the world. Spacies clearly have all the power and combo game in the world, but floaties have the ability to play an easier game, which makes every match more consistent.
I agree
Win a tournament
Underrated comment. He failed to get a set in ultimate too. He is a giant meme and he doesn't realize it.
The Joker
Are you guys actually serious?
@@DarKiRage.13 Are you actually serious? He was a joke in every ultimate tournament. Every other player who fought him basically said this while laughing "fucking Mango dude". The size of this man's ego makes me dislike him a lot. The fact that this fucker said M2K didn't win many tournaments even in his prime is a fucking joke just like his existence in the community. He fucking says I don't believe in tier lists but he proceeds to say some people are carried by their character. Are you fucking serious? How fucking stupid is he?
The Joker lmao you’re the meme here kid. Mango is friends with M2K, unlike you who hates on one of the best melee players of all time.
The Joker
You need to chill the fuck out HOLY SHIT
.... The reason why Armada doesn't have as many tournament results with fox than with peach IS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T NEED TO PRACTICE FOX THAT MUCH, SINCE HE PLAYS/MAINS PEACH REALLY WELL, AND WHEN HE DOES PLAY FOX HE'S JUST BEING DESPERATE OR PLAYING LEFFEN OR JIGS
He literally only picked up fox for hbox and leffen, mango conviently left that out because armada goes peach against everyone else because they are all free.
Hi Mango can you tell me please which brand is your gamecube controller? PowerA brand or Hori brand, or another one?
"i dont believe in tier lists" goes on to say some characters are better than others, and how playing one is harder to win.
wtf mango, haven't you played this game long enough to have an informed opinion yet?
Says the guy who plays top tiers only
They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth
Justin Y. You have the big gay
😂😂😂
damage I wish the dislike button for comments did something
@@Jarvines_2 forreal wtf
@@Retzerr41 pls do
'mew2king won very few tournaments in his prime' yeah ok pal
So he plays the top 4 best characters in the game then says "Man if only I played a better character." Well no shit Mango, there's no where else to go but up.
*down
Armada also the only Peach to do it :)
"Just look at Armada's Fox the few results it has against anyone that weren't Hbox, he never beat me, I destroyed his Fox"
Apex 2015: Am I a joke to you?
Leffen: 1203124139 tier list a month ; Zero: 12 ; Mango: hold my beer.
You might be right about holding the beer, his logic is so inconsistent I wouldn't be surprised if he was drunk.
This whole video is a giant meme
That's cuz HE is a giant meme. I fail to see how this man doesn't realize that he isn't respected the same way as someone like M2K or ZeRo in the community.
Alan Light you have to chill out, you don’t understand that the guys Mang0 makes fun of in this way, he has a lot of respect for or is friends with
Alan Light because he literally doesn’t care??? Lol. Dudes living life.
@@alanlight2715 well, he's definitely more respected than zero now
@@thiefamongu3857 loled
The best argument against tier list is fact that Puff was considered a garbage tier character when mango and Hbox first started playing.
tier lists are an amalgamation of all knowledge about characters. when people find new things with characters, tier lists change. it's not like any single tier list is totally definitive and static.
Here's a link to Armada's Fox beating mang0's Falco
2:07 "it never beat me."
th-cam.com/video/HMUDfLGQ6gE/w-d-xo.html
Glad mango always destroys his Fox.
6:48 "you can't just base it off one matchup"
Is basing it off him beating Armada which is just one matchup.
At 0:35 I wonder if he was going to say "Mario" or "Marth"
Nanosaber ຸ he said marth
PPMD was the best with falco dude 😒
“I love uhhh.. I’m sick”
“Like c’mon man” killed me
Johnny will always be the sickest player after mango
you misspelt Leffen
s2j isn't even the sickest falcon, n0ne is sicker, and jeapie was sicker until he quit. hax and westballz also arguably sicker than s2j.
@@AlexRoseGames this aint it chief
Mang0 what the hell are you talking about the entire video dude, basically this whole video is “tier list are bullshit even though I play all the high tier characters and also I’m the best everyone else sucks”
How does Armada's fox being worse mean he was carried by peach? Peach is his main, and I've only really seen his fox notably as a counterpick for hbox. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure its obvious you're going to be better with the character you put time into over a pocket character
I think that from a purely technical and max capability standpoint species are best but since everyone knows the spacie matchup and playstyles so well at this point since they overestimate them that kinda screws them over in tournament since most top players find ways to counter them.
I feel like people do say that though.
Hax definitely said if I played fox I'd win a lot
Song at 10:00 ?
MaNg0: "I don't believe in tier lists"
Me, an intellectual: "Have you played SFV on launch?"
If you look at Miom top 100 75 to 80% are spacie mains that’s just the data
Win EVO with kirby if melee ever returns next year
This has changed lol
The technical skills required to pilot Spacies to their potential is impractical for most players. Characters like Marth and Falcon see success because their kits are straight to the point. The room for error in playing a character is what makes a character more comfortable in a tournament setting. Not saying Spacies are bad, but most people in general can't play consistent and perfectly each game with Spacies due to their difficulty in technical execution.
Did this man really say spacies were only top when he was like he forgot who PPMD is?
i know this is a year old but he literally mentioned how ppmd was the best for a couple months, but he was talking about the entire year.
I don't believe in tier list
*_Proceeds to pick Falco_*
what is mango's playlist?
So apparently no one understands what he's trying to say. He's basically saying playing strictly based off counterpicking your oppenent is bad, not that characters are all equal so tier list don't matter. Tier list don't matter in the sense if you just keep playing different characters to have an "advantage", you will do worse than some one who know all the matchups for one character.
Tier lists don't matter except that only 5-7 of the chars are the only chars who can get results in tournament
Mango while doing standard (albeit cool) falco pillar combos: I don’t have bread and butter
he specifically explained he was talking about neutral, not combos
I’d love to see a tournament that keeps track of character SD’s. No way a spacie doesn’t SD at least 10 times in pools.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt he sad at the beginning that character doesnt matter and than he sad Armada got carried by peach?
“I used to camp Hbox/Armada and they couldn’t touch me and I fucked them up” wow it’s almost like when spacies decide to camp against floaties, like they should, they beat them. Looks like Jigglypuff/Peach aren’t unilaterally better than Fox/Falco in tournaments.
"I think spacies are the best characters, but realistically there not" - Mang0.
Whens the last time some1 won without fox, falco, falcon, marth? there is one picachu, we dont get much peach or sheik any more so yeah tier list do exist in melee especially
Mango: "I don't believe in tier lists"
Also Mango: Mains fox and falco
Mango: I don’t believe in tier lists
Also Mango: Pikachu and Yoshi are shitty characters
Did armada ever win a supermajor going only fox?
I love how Magno is just stomping with his Falco, and at the same time having a nonchalant conversation with his audience.
*shitty Samus*
*admires Plup as a "peak specimen" in competitive Melee*
He does not play Samus
Very agree
Hax said it which is why he switched from falcon to fox
And what's he done recently
And what results has he had? Or what name did he make for himself? He gave up his roots cause he had a bad mentality and no one even remembers his legacy. That being said his hands are fucked so I'm glad he found a way to keep playing
@@justinm3493 Are you dumb? He will be forever known as one of the most technical foxes ever.
@@darkstar4450 recovered from his wrist surgery, got sponsored, manufactured and advertised his own controller, created and successfully crowdfunded a hardware replacement for ucf, wrote a comprehensive ruleset for alternate controllers, consistently held the #1 rank in the NYC power rankings, went to summit twice, won dreamhack atlanta doubles, got 4th at battle of bc3 beating sfat
and this is AFTER suffering a bone shattering wrist injury and surgery. Immediately after switching to Fox he got 2nd at zenith, 5th at Big House 4, 2nd at GOML. If he hadn't got injured, he would be a god by now.
Sickest player is bizarro flame.
come on people.
Can't argue with that. Kage's Ganon was better but wasn't nearly as stylish
Mang0 is officially an airhead
Lol
Wait, when did Mango last win something? 🤔
Idk why people say fox is better than Falco. I think the simple fact, stun on laser(&up throw), spike on drill. Higher jump. +shine Gives more control over ur opponents movement. Yea maybe fox in the beginning could beat falco in a tournament. Idk
Edit ; wow just 30 seconds later 10:20 he says screw Amsa. And ends up losing a supermajor to him.
“I don’t believe in tier lists”
"Fuck them. Shitty ass shitty characters"
"I don't believe in tier lists"
Says the guy who literally picked up the 2 *best characters in the game*
mang0 has a point, I don’t think Hugo would place any much better in the rankings if he picked up Fox, same with chu.
Mango: "nobody fucked Armadas fox like me"
Leffen: am I a joke to you?
Damn, Mango was talking that SHIT! TALK THAT SHIT BOY!!
0:21 umm Hax?😂😂😂
He completly beleives in tier list the entire video is him saying that X character is stronger than X character
I think tier lists are a thing. They're just organized opinions.
What people tend to forget is that opinions are 1.) not the same across different players and
2.) can change throughout tournies and events that happens
3.) with buffs and nerfs that come along the way
I think that ultimately, there are so many moving parts and things unexplored that is when we see big rises to characters like Ganon and G&W who go from being considered generally low-ish tier to mid tier, and people like Ken and Ryu who go from looking mid tier to looking closer to low tier (their lack of engagement options is clear imo and my friend pointed out because they're almost too faithful to their own series where people are movin across a whole stage
People saying they don't 'believe' in tier lists just don't understand what tier lists mean.
I dont believe in tier lists
Proceeds to play two top tiers
“I hate axe”
_has a picture of Axe permanently on his stream layout_
Mango is drunk
Yeah, even once in smash online, I won as Little Mac against pro players
At least M2K won something last year. Jk mang0 i love #subLife
This is why mango is a goat. Tier lists are for squares.
Bowser is s tier confirmed
Floaties can dash dance in the air whereas spacies can not
Mango out here gatekeeping "the best" lol