It's a sick attitude for a competitor but I agree. I don't give a shit about sports. I do care about who was the best in 2014. I care about all the people who have meant something to the scene. I'm a fucking nerd for sure but I care.
I love this mentality about talking about what you’ve done and how that doesn’t matter until everything is over. Melee is a sick game and I feel like too many people in the community say “look what we’ve done. Look what I’m doing.” When they should be saying “look what we ARE doing, look what we’re going to do.”
I think mang0 is right, but there is a difference between mang0 being at the top and Hbox being at the top. Everybody loves mang0, most of the Melee community hates Hbox, and it’s been that way for years. Yes, what mang0 said about fight or flight was right, but Hbox also has the largest majority of people who hate him. Even many top players hate him, not just his playstyle and character, but his personality too. I don’t blame Hbox at all for wanting to move on from Melee.
but all of that HBox stuff is just his ego, if he got rid of his ego (probably the biggest one in smash, dude is kind of an egomaniac), he would have more clarity on his decision but since he can't, he'll leave like the bitchmade bitch he is
Just my pov as a 27 year old, but if most people around your age bracket don't like you there's often a reason, and it's not usually something about cliques or stuff like that, as you stop physically growing (25ish, also when your brain becomes fully developed), growing as a person becomes incredibly important and it becomes very easy to see when someone is lacking or a bit off when it comes to their psychology or mental maturity. IMO at times he acts more like a spoilt child, than a 27 year old man, and as you get older you have less and less time for that sorta shit
@@emilyfisheye So Hbox is a bitch because he does not like the online tournaments but basically went to everything before then for a year while mango barely went to anything for years now. Cognitive Dissonance is outstanding. .
That's why Armada's retirement always rubbed me the wrong way. He retired when it was clear that he was finally getting some challenge from everybody. Now we missed out on nice sets like 2019/2020 Zain vs Armada or ibdw vs Armada. I respect his decision to go out strong but I don't like it.
I don't think his loss against swedish was a big deal since it was a Bo3, but his loss against Plup was pretty huge (shoutouts to plup though). I get what you mean.
I don't see it that way at all. Armada was dominant when Melee was arguably at its absolute peak competition-wise in the five gods era. He retired once he managed to even the score with his only true rival at the time, Hbox.
@@AL-lh2ht You criticize mang0, for calling Hbox a bitch, but you still love and support Hbox even after he blocked people online for using his tag, after the multiple sexual misconduct allegations, and after all these people telling their own Hbox story? I'm not saying the shit that happens to Hbox is justified or anything, but there's nothing wrong with calling someone a bitch. It especially doesn't discourage women from joining the community nor makes mang0 a better or worse person and is just giving his opinion on the matter. It's not respected. It's agreed upon because it's what makes sense to a good number of people.
As a person who is new to playing melee I strive to be one of the best and this has inspired me even further. Gonna have to drop every game and just go for it. Won’t know until you try
commenters on this video are acting like hbox has never been unhappy playing melee until now. hbox has been vocally unhappy for a while now and there are a lot of valid reasons for it that are unrelated to his ego (even though I'm sure a lot of what mango is talking about is a contributing factor). he's not quitting JUST because he's losing, and those other factors are important to keep in mind. with all that said though I love hearing mango talk about this, he's obviously super insightful about the topic
The majority will eventually get sick of playing the same game over and over, however long it takes. Hbox is burned out and was looking for excuses to cling onto his favorite game. It’s understandable, since he has a huge attachment to his childhood game and contributed a lot into the scene
"[Zain's] only the hardest because he's playing right now, and Melee is the hardest it's ever been." So true, look at the game like 2 years ago, it's pretty staggering how much better everyone has gotten as a whole.
You actually just taught me in invaluable lesson. Your talk of being the best can be boiled down to the fact that the present and what we are doing right now is what truly matters the most... Regardless of what's happened, we need to get out of our own asses and make the most of it. So thank you.
It’s also because hbox leaving would hurt the melee scene a little bit despite his rather controversial persona. It wouldn’t kill the game but any top player who quits results in fewer spectators.
Evert Jan Janssen idk man, while I do agree that people stop watching because of his lame ass puff, there are Hbox/Puff fans as well as people who like to see villains get beat. Having a “villain” in the community makes things more interesting
I really enjoy the experience of watching Hbox. It’s like watching Alien or some other slow paced horror movie. You desperately want the good guys to survive but you also know some of em are gonna die and you just gotta watch to find out. I’ve never rooted for Hbox in my life but I agree that melee would lose something. Probably not viewers though, lol.
Mr. pockets “nah” Hbox has fans, less Hbox less viewers. But more importantly, just as beating Armada was a milestone to being one of the best players of all time, there is no doubt that Hbox was filling that role. This made Zain’s storyline more hype being one of the only Marths to even put up a fight against Hbox. It made PPU’s Apex win seem like a fluke for how often he lost to that character, and it’s incredible Zain showed he could give floaties and spacies trouble in bracket. And when Mang0 beats Hbox, you know he’s playing fucking good. Hbox is a great barometer for MY favorite players to step the fuck up and test their mettle.
This has serious vibes of a rival being disappointed in a rival's lack of motivation. Like Bakugo slappin Deku across the face like, "get up, bitch, and start training ."
Honestly, it's just the right financial decision for him during quarantine, no melee player really would watch him play cause people find it boring. Ultimate players find him hype and exciting, and a real entertainer. Makes sense to drop melee at the very least while he can't go to tourneys. If melee players want to keep hbox, support him and his melee content. If you don't, he has no reason to continue to play.
That's true but at the same time, they never got into it for the money and Hbox is a sponsored player with a salary. In reality they play for the heart, not the dollar. Just like life.
Well I think he’s right about the differences in puff between the games. In ultimate puff has a shit risk reward ratio so he has to go for ballsy plays which are obviously exciting to watch. And if he is playing campy, he’s got some goofy music and chat is going crazy so I don’t mind. Basically, Hbox popping the fuck off against some random 12 year old online cloud is funny as shit, but optimal melee puff wins tourneys hbox gets boring
@@xitsSeb And you know what those sponsors want? Players that are liked and engaged with by the community, aka, exactly what hbox isn't for the melee community. Most sponsors now either want people who already have a fanbase, or people who are good enough and charismatic enough to create one.
@@BacchusGames I meant sponsor as in team liquid aka team curse which has been providing him a salary for the last like 7 years I think? I mean let's be real were talking about a man who quit his job as an engineer to pursue competing to be the best in the world. Sure it's all marketing but were also talking about a #1 in the world player for years. Hbox actually does have melee fans now. It's not about the money or the sponsors, or even the fans or how hes received. Its about the drive to compete and how hes being a pussy because of ego like mango is pointing out. It's a regular thing that happens in competition. Also, hbox has regularly had more subs than m2k, armada, and most if not all other melee streamers besides mang0 so I dont really see your point at all. It's not about external bullshit factors to fuel his ego it's about drive to compete.
@@xitsSeb Even if it was true that his ego is the sole reason he wants to quit, why does it matter? How many people in the melee community really want him there? Considering shit like the crab, him basically never getting cheered for, and no financial support, what reason has the melee community given hbox to stay? The fact that he is the best? The fact that people only care if he loses? Just look at BOTFG, where the other 4 gods said that they barely know Juan, they only know hbox. Ultimate players have started to know Juan. If you want him to stay, give him a fucking reason to.
@@_Majunior Yeah true, and I get it. Plus Hbox's "lonely at the top" is definitely different than Mango's "lonely at the top." But Mango's still right.
@@memedumpster3684 Hbox its different because people personally don't like him. Turns out being super rude and condescending to people but then putting on a victim face annoys people.
Mango, right here in this candid video, demonstrates how he's The Kid. He is the best melee player of all time. He is the G.O.A.T. Without any pretentiousness he is real, raw, and speaks truths from the heart.
Normally I skip ads before videos once the skip button appears, but I got literally a whole Run The Jewels song as an ad so I actually listened to a whole ad for the first time ever
Man, Mango really hit me with this video. I guess I had unchecked ego the whole time, keeping me from competing. He's right! Who fucking cares who was the best back THEN. I want to be the best NOW. Props
I haven't been able to watch melee shit because of the varus and all the ot ive been forced to work because of current situations and this is probably the best video i couldve watched finally coming back to it. Love you Mango, you'll always be the GOAT.
the biggest difference though is that hbox has been almost unanimously hated for a long time. I don't think mango knows how that feels Edit: I do agree with leffens point though that he should have waited a little while until after the tournament to let the people that deserve to be in the spotlight get their time rather than immediately making it all about him. But people that somehow don't understand why he would want to quit baffle me
Hbox is not actually "quit" he is just not going to be doing online tournaments. It's funny how to use of wording to control the narrative. Armada retired. Hbox quit. Amazing double standard.
@@sage798 I know right? People seem to forget that Mang0 was the best puff player in the world before Hbox and he got a ton of hate from the community for his character choice.
@@IuckFsrael And how long did Mang0 play as Puff? Like 3-4 years until he switched to spaces? That's not comparable to the length of Hbox's entire career ya know.
@conacal rubdur no what Mang0 is saying is his opinion on what he understands to be ego not objective fact like you are trying to claim lol. That is why it makes it incorrect because he is a hypocrite because the way he describes what his perception of ego is more so applies to himself than anyone else he is accusing, which is what we call projection or deflecting, which is typical of narcissists' and hypocritical people. There is no objective truth in his statements because psychologically ego is far more dense, complex and nuanced then what he describes it to be. He really just wanted to shit on Armada to feed his own ego because he is a narcissist. He literally does not understand what Ego is in the slightest and any psychologist would tell you that. He is just pulling shit out of his ass to shit on Armada and Hungrybox cause his entire persona and existence is centered around being a shit talker and crowd pleaser because that is how he copes with life. Which is why he is beloved by the melee community because many nerdy/geeky people tend to have narcissistic/hypocritical personalities, the age old "do as i say, not as i do" is very common in man children such as Mang0. Because they constantly have to justify themselves for the questionable life decisions they have made and their inability to grow up and be a functioning adult. Nothing he said was objective fact, more so ramblings about what he doesn't like about people, yet the things he doesn't like about people apply to himself far more than anyone else he is criticizing others for. But of course, he could never admit those things about himself, because he is an asshole and a narcissist.
It seems like Mango is discounting the fact that people compete for different reasons. Some, like Mango compete to push their limits. Others want to prove something to themselves. There are also those who seek for meaning through competition. It is clear Hbox has hit a point where he no longer knows why he competes, and as such it is understandable why he lost motivation. The true question behind this whole discussion is honestly just a rephrasing of what gives your life meaning.
Damn, this one hits surprisingly close for me, and I’m not even best in the world at anything yet. I’ve been trying to write a novel for a loooonnng time, but I keep letting my ego hold me back. I used to write all the time as a kid, but soon as I got a little self-awareness and became self critical, I stopped. I barely write anymore because I’m scared it won’t be the best thing in the world. I’ve been living on the delusion that I COULD be a great writer if I just wrote. I always though of Mang0 just as a goofy guy, but he’s right: I can’t even call myself a writer if I don’t get on the grind to write and publish. Bless Mang0, he’s like the Uncle Iroh of melee.
When all of your drive goes into being the best at something, seeing someone who was as motivated as you for the same thing say it doesnt matter to them anymore is hard. If i was mango i’d be pissed at hbox too.
@@AL-lh2ht I don't think Mang0 means it in a personal way. He publicly insulted other top players like Mew2King where Mang0 called him the "lamest melee player ever" and also called Armada an idiot for quitting melee. It's just a Mang0 thing to insult other top players.
@@jasmithyantro9680 but see, if any other player insulted someone like mag0 has, they get hate... mang0 can talk shit about anyone and get praised and loved. I think people love mang0 because they are also losers like him in real life.
I always thought Mang0 was kind of arrogant before this, but this gave me a new respect. I have the most respect for people who are not afraid to fail to get better at something.
When Mang0 speaks on melee or competing I love it and I’m here for it. When he talks about any other smash game it’s annoying. That being said great video.
@@ApollyonTD You're insisting that deep insight is something that can't be manifested by someone who isn't cognitively well equipped, lets say, while citing and example of it. That is a contradictory set of statements. What you are describing is a false dichotomy, and by definition it must be, if it's the case that we have an example of an individual bridging the gap between your two subsets. from wikipedia : "A dichotomy /daɪˈkɒtəmi/ is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets). In other words, this couple of parts must be jointly exhaustive: everything must belong to one part or the other, and mutually exclusive: nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts." You could have said, that's quite the contradiction, or that's interesting, but you are wrong in calling it a true dichotomy. Not that it's a big deal, or anything, haha
I mean I think Mango should have also considered that hboxs streaming career has exploded over the past 5 months streaming ultimate. So money there really takes away from his reasons to keep going with melee. Why bother with all that stress when you can make a grand or 2 a day streaming ultimate and there is no pressure to win.
armada might have the best records but Joey is melee. USA USA USA Joeys right on his mentality game, he doesn’t even know frame data he just instinctively reads the opponent
Mango has had the support of the community the entire time though, and hbox kinda seems like he went through the opposite of that, so I don’t think hbox minds losing so much, it’s just that there’s thousands of people being toxic to him, which can take a toll on someone’s mentality, which is obvious when you take note of how many streamers have committed suicide in the past couple years
Most of the Hbox hate died down though and he has a legitimate following. I think people realized overall the hate wasn't justified and it's not as bad as it used to be.
@@High8Studio A lot of his following now is from people who are into his Ultimate content. It's true that the hate for him has died down a bit, partially because he himself seems to have mellowed out a bit and partially because I think the crab incident made people realize things were getting a little dumb, but the timing coincides with his rise in popularity for streaming/competing in Ultimate in a way that I think makes the distinction between "play Melee, everyone hates me" and "play Ultimate, everyone loves me" feel even stronger to him
@@crimsoncutz8430 The real reason is because the "There will never be another" Video. The video that says Hbox is the representation of melee. Its really is that simple.
The biggest problem with many PEOPLE, not just Melee players, is ego. The part of your brain that wants to be differentiated from everyone else fights for attention, wants the win but doesn't want to work for it, wants YOU to be comfortable at the expense of everyone else. And all the things that can dissolve the ego (read: psychedelics like mushrooms or DMT) are hilariously illegal, so good luck getting over that shit. Dissolving the ego is not only the best way to get better at competitive gaming after a certain threshold of skill; it's the only way any of us are going to survive the hell word that the egomania of our "leaders" has created. So, break the law.
Get off your fuckin high horse. You don't see the world through HBox's eyes. You don't see the world through Armada's eyes. I understand that you don't mean this video/topic in a bad way and it's what you genuinely believe is best for a game that you love, and I don't hate you. but you're a little outside your lane on this one. Even if three people experience the exact same thing, they will handle it in different ways, and the right answer is different for everyone. Love you Mang0.
I'm only in about 3 and a half minutes and I've never stared at the C9 logo so long. It's true appearance is shifting between my eyes trying to follow the lines.
lol was rewatching this goated video after this glorious weekend and had to see if anyone else had this comment. somehow after all these years mango managed to create maybe the most special memory yet though. cheers
PP and M2k went to a tournament not too long ago. M2k BH5, PP some local. Sure it's not much, but it still shows they'll come back every now and then. Hbox isn't gonna quit btw, he's just...exactly what Mango says he is right now.
@@jacobm7870 Mango would only go to a few tournaments a year while Hbox would go to basically everything. Just check their tournaments placements and we'll see what I mean. Mango would get notable placement and even a win or two but Mango has primarily been a streamer for years now.
@@AL-lh2ht Are you sure you keep up with competitive melee? Mang0 is very active when it comes to competing in tournaments. I believe he attended Genesis, Pound, GOML, Smash n splash, low tier city, smash camp, smash con, mainstage, TBH, and birthday bash. That's not just a "few" tournaments.
This video is proof that Mango truly loves melee with all his heart
It’s his heart & soul. I respect him for that.
We know the truth, Hbox still wants to play he just scared of getting orange justiced on
I get this vibe that Mang0 doesn't want Hbox to quit.
He didn't want Armada to quit either. T _ T
I think it would hurt mang to know he won't have the chance to beat him fair and square if he quits, same with Armada
I hope mango calling hbox’s move a bitch will make him stay
Hyren Jabulb ok tough guy now go simp for hbox in his stream cya
Saudade e Tristeza I was gonna say Hbox doesn’t care what Mang0 thinks, but I’m not sure that’s true lmao
Oh silly Mango. Jokes on you, I DO go to sleep thinking “damn, mango was nasty in 2014”
fr lol
Fr prime mang0 was unstoppable
It's a sick attitude for a competitor but I agree. I don't give a shit about sports. I do care about who was the best in 2014. I care about all the people who have meant something to the scene. I'm a fucking nerd for sure but I care.
@@RetroEternal Mang0 wasn't at his "prime" in 2014. Other players like Armada and Hbox just became better than him.
I::: :::: I’m saying prime as in his peak, when he was the undisputed best player in the world
Mango's analogies are pretty deep, not going to lie
Mang0 talking about M2k in a respectful way it's just the best.
He probably saw the video and feels slightly the same way bout M2K
Because m2k is an amazing guy
VIC 1 M2k and Prog are the purest souls of Smash
@@adamquenano8563 FACTS
adam quenano what part?
“I didn’t start speed running” 😂😂😂 armada shot
"Crazy bearded homeless man too insane to die."
I love this mentality about talking about what you’ve done and how that doesn’t matter until everything is over. Melee is a sick game and I feel like too many people in the community say “look what we’ve done. Look what I’m doing.” When they should be saying “look what we ARE doing, look what we’re going to do.”
Mango can't talk about his glory days cause they never ended
I think mang0 is right, but there is a difference between mang0 being at the top and Hbox being at the top. Everybody loves mang0, most of the Melee community hates Hbox, and it’s been that way for years. Yes, what mang0 said about fight or flight was right, but Hbox also has the largest majority of people who hate him. Even many top players hate him, not just his playstyle and character, but his personality too. I don’t blame Hbox at all for wanting to move on from Melee.
but all of that HBox stuff is just his ego, if he got rid of his ego (probably the biggest one in smash, dude is kind of an egomaniac), he would have more clarity on his decision but since he can't, he'll leave like the bitchmade bitch he is
Just my pov as a 27 year old, but if most people around your age bracket don't like you there's often a reason, and it's not usually something about cliques or stuff like that, as you stop physically growing (25ish, also when your brain becomes fully developed), growing as a person becomes incredibly important and it becomes very easy to see when someone is lacking or a bit off when it comes to their psychology or mental maturity. IMO at times he acts more like a spoilt child, than a 27 year old man, and as you get older you have less and less time for that sorta shit
@@emilyfisheye So Hbox is a bitch because he does not like the online tournaments but basically went to everything before then for a year while mango barely went to anything for years now. Cognitive Dissonance is outstanding. .
@fisheye “I feel like I know Hungrybox more than I know Juan” ripped straight out of an interview with the gods
@@emilyfisheye You're one of the Hbox haters he was talking about. Irrational and unable to put yourselves in someone else's shoes
I respect Mang, he’s wiser than he lets on
That's why Armada's retirement always rubbed me the wrong way. He retired when it was clear that he was finally getting some challenge from everybody. Now we missed out on nice sets like 2019/2020 Zain vs Armada or ibdw vs Armada. I respect his decision to go out strong but I don't like it.
I don't think his loss against swedish was a big deal since it was a Bo3, but his loss against Plup was pretty huge (shoutouts to plup though). I get what you mean.
I don't see it that way at all. Armada was dominant when Melee was arguably at its absolute peak competition-wise in the five gods era. He retired once he managed to even the score with his only true rival at the time, Hbox.
@@NemesisCOD leffen fucked armada up all the time look at there set record
@@NemesisCOD Armada always had a winning record against Hbox. He only struggles against Hbox from 2016-2018 (3 years).
@@RIStar-ds7wr Didn't really struggle in 2018, in which he had a pretty dominant winning h2h.
This is why Mang0 is the people's champ.
Because he called Hbox a bitch?
@@AL-lh2ht yes
No, Scar is
@@AtlasSSBM And people wonder why it's hard for women to get into this community. When apparently this is respected.
@@AL-lh2ht You criticize mang0, for calling Hbox a bitch, but you still love and support Hbox even after he blocked people online for using his tag, after the multiple sexual misconduct allegations, and after all these people telling their own Hbox story? I'm not saying the shit that happens to Hbox is justified or anything, but there's nothing wrong with calling someone a bitch. It especially doesn't discourage women from joining the community nor makes mang0 a better or worse person and is just giving his opinion on the matter. It's not respected. It's agreed upon because it's what makes sense to a good number of people.
Mang0 spitting facts here...
Hbox telling about his personal feelings and expressing his dislike about online tournaments makes him a "bitch".
"A bunch of crackhead foxes climbing to the top" omg that is hilarious
John Novakovich specifically the “little crackhead fox players” is hilarious, like they’re all 10 year olds
As a person who is new to playing melee I strive to be one of the best and this has inspired me even further. Gonna have to drop every game and just go for it. Won’t know until you try
R.A.M bet
I'm also new to playing Melee and I also want to get as good as I can. Do you want to practice and do friendlies and stuff for Melee?
DragyTD discord is Vincent Valentine# 7217
@@nomadthewanderer5535 I sent a friend request.
commenters on this video are acting like hbox has never been unhappy playing melee until now. hbox has been vocally unhappy for a while now and there are a lot of valid reasons for it that are unrelated to his ego (even though I'm sure a lot of what mango is talking about is a contributing factor). he's not quitting JUST because he's losing, and those other factors are important to keep in mind. with all that said though I love hearing mango talk about this, he's obviously super insightful about the topic
The majority will eventually get sick of playing the same game over and over, however long it takes. Hbox is burned out and was looking for excuses to cling onto his favorite game. It’s understandable, since he has a huge attachment to his childhood game and contributed a lot into the scene
"[Zain's] only the hardest because he's playing right now, and Melee is the hardest it's ever been."
So true, look at the game like 2 years ago, it's pretty staggering how much better everyone has gotten as a whole.
Any examples of the game being harder/ players are better? Trying to understand the meta more
TRIIIIICCOOO. that scared the shit out of me
You actually just taught me in invaluable lesson. Your talk of being the best can be boiled down to the fact that the present and what we are doing right now is what truly matters the most... Regardless of what's happened, we need to get out of our own asses and make the most of it. So thank you.
Please orange justice on him before he leaves the scene we need to see it
The OrangeJustice congo line with Leffen and Zain won't happen. Sadge.
@@cannibalcris6875 *and plup. Don't you forget plup
@@malcolmpurple3686 PlupPls
This is low key the best champ mindset talk I've ever heard
As a former student athlete at a university Mango’s statement towards the end really resonated with me... thank u
have you watched pingpong the animation?
It’s also because hbox leaving would hurt the melee scene a little bit despite his rather controversial persona. It wouldn’t kill the game but any top player who quits results in fewer spectators.
Nah
No way dude. I have a lot of respect for Hbox and his incredible skill, but not having a puff in top 8 is going to do wonders for the game.
Evert Jan Janssen idk man, while I do agree that people stop watching because of his lame ass puff, there are Hbox/Puff fans as well as people who like to see villains get beat. Having a “villain” in the community makes things more interesting
I really enjoy the experience of watching Hbox. It’s like watching Alien or some other slow paced horror movie. You desperately want the good guys to survive but you also know some of em are gonna die and you just gotta watch to find out. I’ve never rooted for Hbox in my life but I agree that melee would lose something.
Probably not viewers though, lol.
Mr. pockets “nah” Hbox has fans, less Hbox less viewers.
But more importantly, just as beating Armada was a milestone to being one of the best players of all time, there is no doubt that Hbox was filling that role.
This made Zain’s storyline more hype being one of the only Marths to even put up a fight against Hbox. It made PPU’s Apex win seem like a fluke for how often he lost to that character, and it’s incredible Zain showed he could give floaties and spacies trouble in bracket.
And when Mang0 beats Hbox, you know he’s playing fucking good. Hbox is a great barometer for MY favorite players to step the fuck up and test their mettle.
That’s what happened to Ken
Matrixyst lmfao imagine watching that washed player stream
@@John-nk3ej I'm imagining
In X years, when someone makes a video about Mango's journey and experiences there's gotta be a lot of clips from this video.
It was heavily used in Mang0 the musical! Not exactly what you were talking about, but still
Yo I feel so motivated right now omg that champion speech??? I’m a believer now.
Mang0 is the spirit of melee
Oh man, I was thinking this was that drunk speech after getting second at Lud's tourney. That was raw
It's that real rap
I’ll have to see this. I always hated hbox victory speeches.
He does that “I’m shocked” soppy profound speech nonsense week-in-week-out
"H-box is just bein' a lil' bitch"
"I'm not even trying to be mean"
This shit is why I love you man, one of the reasons anyway 😂
This is like one of the best videos posted to this channel the ego talk is actually so good you guys really need to listen
“Ehhh, I lost 2 tournaments” - Hbox
“Bitch I lost 28 I a row. STFU” - Mang0
If mango really does hit number 1 again, he'll be the goat no questions asked. #MANGONATION
he did it
This has serious vibes of a rival being disappointed in a rival's lack of motivation. Like Bakugo slappin Deku across the face like, "get up, bitch, and start training ."
i play this video on loop whenever im scared, top tier advice here
Mango is way smarter then ppl give him credit for honestly
arb just look at his college graduation video
And yet he thought that Europe was a country Lol
Honestly, it's just the right financial decision for him during quarantine, no melee player really would watch him play cause people find it boring. Ultimate players find him hype and exciting, and a real entertainer. Makes sense to drop melee at the very least while he can't go to tourneys. If melee players want to keep hbox, support him and his melee content. If you don't, he has no reason to continue to play.
That's true but at the same time, they never got into it for the money and Hbox is a sponsored player with a salary. In reality they play for the heart, not the dollar. Just like life.
Well I think he’s right about the differences in puff between the games. In ultimate puff has a shit risk reward ratio so he has to go for ballsy plays which are obviously exciting to watch. And if he is playing campy, he’s got some goofy music and chat is going crazy so I don’t mind. Basically, Hbox popping the fuck off against some random 12 year old online cloud is funny as shit, but optimal melee puff wins tourneys hbox gets boring
@@xitsSeb And you know what those sponsors want? Players that are liked and engaged with by the community, aka, exactly what hbox isn't for the melee community. Most sponsors now either want people who already have a fanbase, or people who are good enough and charismatic enough to create one.
@@BacchusGames I meant sponsor as in team liquid aka team curse which has been providing him a salary for the last like 7 years I think? I mean let's be real were talking about a man who quit his job as an engineer to pursue competing to be the best in the world. Sure it's all marketing but were also talking about a #1 in the world player for years. Hbox actually does have melee fans now. It's not about the money or the sponsors, or even the fans or how hes received. Its about the drive to compete and how hes being a pussy because of ego like mango is pointing out. It's a regular thing that happens in competition. Also, hbox has regularly had more subs than m2k, armada, and most if not all other melee streamers besides mang0 so I dont really see your point at all. It's not about external bullshit factors to fuel his ego it's about drive to compete.
@@xitsSeb Even if it was true that his ego is the sole reason he wants to quit, why does it matter? How many people in the melee community really want him there? Considering shit like the crab, him basically never getting cheered for, and no financial support, what reason has the melee community given hbox to stay? The fact that he is the best? The fact that people only care if he loses? Just look at BOTFG, where the other 4 gods said that they barely know Juan, they only know hbox. Ultimate players have started to know Juan. If you want him to stay, give him a fucking reason to.
the "stfu" at 7:03 hit different
Seems like the love he's been getting from the Ult crowd's made him real comfy...and kinda lazy, relatively speaking
Some spots opened up in the ultimate streaming world too, it definitely helps him from a streaming perspective
well duh, the ultimate fans weren't old enough to use their parents computers before so they don't know hbox
@@_Majunior Yeah true, and I get it. Plus Hbox's "lonely at the top" is definitely different than Mango's "lonely at the top."
But Mango's still right.
@@limitedbom2206 Sounds like you know and don't like old Hbox, while Ult fans know and like grown Hbox
@@memedumpster3684 Hbox its different because people personally don't like him. Turns out being super rude and condescending to people but then putting on a victim face annoys people.
Mango, right here in this candid video, demonstrates how he's The Kid. He is the best melee player of all time. He is the G.O.A.T. Without any pretentiousness he is real, raw, and speaks truths from the heart.
Mang0: insults people for 15 minutes
The comments: he so real and d2e 😍
Now this is the best part of the timeline, mango being back at the top
Lol, dont forget about zain and leffen bro
Bruh where Zain at
Its not about how hard you can get hit, its about how hard you can get hit and get back up! That's how winners are made.
Rocky babyyyyy
Normally I skip ads before videos once the skip button appears, but I got literally a whole Run The Jewels song as an ad so I actually listened to a whole ad for the first time ever
I kind of get what he means your legacy doesn't matter, you can't continue to live your life based on past achievements
Man, Mango really hit me with this video. I guess I had unchecked ego the whole time, keeping me from competing. He's right! Who fucking cares who was the best back THEN. I want to be the best NOW. Props
From now on I will play this speech every day for morning motivation 🤣
I haven't been able to watch melee shit because of the varus and all the ot ive been forced to work because of current situations and this is probably the best video i couldve watched finally coming back to it.
Love you Mango, you'll always be the GOAT.
I appreciate getting to listen into this champion mindset.
the biggest difference though is that hbox has been almost unanimously hated for a long time. I don't think mango knows how that feels
Edit: I do agree with leffens point though that he should have waited a little while until after the tournament to let the people that deserve to be in the spotlight get their time rather than immediately making it all about him. But people that somehow don't understand why he would want to quit baffle me
Lol I didn’t even think about this Hbox’s ego is his biggest downfall as a person
Hbox is not actually "quit" he is just not going to be doing online tournaments. It's funny how to use of wording to control the narrative. Armada retired. Hbox quit. Amazing double standard.
Mango was for sure hated by lots of people early on.
@@sage798 I know right? People seem to forget that Mang0 was the best puff player in the world before Hbox and he got a ton of hate from the community for his character choice.
@@IuckFsrael And how long did Mang0 play as Puff? Like 3-4 years until he switched to spaces? That's not comparable to the length of Hbox's entire career ya know.
damn mango really did come back and won summit and took the goat title back
Damn mang0 really came back and won tipped off and took the goat title back
nobody:
me going to bed: dude mango was sick in 2014
i have a feeling like mango is gonna like hbox's new video
Mango dropping important knowledge here, apply this to life in general.
@conacal rubdur but yet he has yet to drop his own ego? lol
@conacal rubdur It makes it incorrect to me, cause he is a hypocrite. But i also cannot stand hypocrites so i might just have a bias against that.
@conacal rubdur no what Mang0 is saying is his opinion on what he understands to be ego not objective fact like you are trying to claim lol. That is why it makes it incorrect because he is a hypocrite because the way he describes what his perception of ego is more so applies to himself than anyone else he is accusing, which is what we call projection or deflecting, which is typical of narcissists' and hypocritical people. There is no objective truth in his statements because psychologically ego is far more dense, complex and nuanced then what he describes it to be. He really just wanted to shit on Armada to feed his own ego because he is a narcissist. He literally does not understand what Ego is in the slightest and any psychologist would tell you that. He is just pulling shit out of his ass to shit on Armada and Hungrybox cause his entire persona and existence is centered around being a shit talker and crowd pleaser because that is how he copes with life. Which is why he is beloved by the melee community because many nerdy/geeky people tend to have narcissistic/hypocritical personalities, the age old "do as i say, not as i do" is very common in man children such as Mang0. Because they constantly have to justify themselves for the questionable life decisions they have made and their inability to grow up and be a functioning adult. Nothing he said was objective fact, more so ramblings about what he doesn't like about people, yet the things he doesn't like about people apply to himself far more than anyone else he is criticizing others for. But of course, he could never admit those things about himself, because he is an asshole and a narcissist.
It seems like Mango is discounting the fact that people compete for different reasons. Some, like Mango compete to push their limits. Others want to prove something to themselves. There are also those who seek for meaning through competition. It is clear Hbox has hit a point where he no longer knows why he competes, and as such it is understandable why he lost motivation. The true question behind this whole discussion is honestly just a rephrasing of what gives your life meaning.
Damn, this one hits surprisingly close for me, and I’m not even best in the world at anything yet. I’ve been trying to write a novel for a loooonnng time, but I keep letting my ego hold me back. I used to write all the time as a kid, but soon as I got a little self-awareness and became self critical, I stopped. I barely write anymore because I’m scared it won’t be the best thing in the world. I’ve been living on the delusion that I COULD be a great writer if I just wrote. I always though of Mang0 just as a goofy guy, but he’s right: I can’t even call myself a writer if I don’t get on the grind to write and publish. Bless Mang0, he’s like the Uncle Iroh of melee.
Just sit down and write for a 30 min or an hour everyday. Even if its trash, that you will never use, just sit down and write.
You can read a book on writing. Consider it like a job and go get educated. Just aimless writing is actually not super useful.
I appreciate getting to listen in on this champion mindset.
When all of your drive goes into being the best at something, seeing someone who was as motivated as you for the same thing say it doesnt matter to them anymore is hard. If i was mango i’d be pissed at hbox too.
Yea and publically call them a bitch.
@@AL-lh2ht I don't think Mang0 means it in a personal way. He publicly insulted other top players like Mew2King where Mang0 called him the "lamest melee player ever" and also called Armada an idiot for quitting melee. It's just a Mang0 thing to insult other top players.
@@jasmithyantro9680 but see, if any other player insulted someone like mag0 has, they get hate... mang0 can talk shit about anyone and get praised and loved. I think people love mang0 because they are also losers like him in real life.
Mango is much more intelligent than most give him credit for.
I always thought Mang0 was kind of arrogant before this, but this gave me a new respect. I have the most respect for people who are not afraid to fail to get better at something.
Ye Hbox never struggled to become the best player in the world for...how many years now?
@@AL-lh2ht what the heck do you mean it took twice as long for hbox to get to the top???
@@MachuPichucp11 Mang0 became in the best in like 2008 while Hbox recently became the best in 2017.
When Mang0 speaks on melee or competing I love it and I’m here for it. When he talks about any other smash game it’s annoying. That being said great video.
5:35 holy shit he called out Armada who's just streaming speedruns now
To be fair running Super Mario 64 is fine
Mang0 might be an idiot sometimes but he also has some really deep insights. Quite the dichotomy.
That's not what a dichotomy is, but yeah my dude put everything into wisdom
Ricky Johnson it’s exactly what a dichotomy is but ok.
That's the mango
Ricky Johnson also “dude put everything into wisdom” might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
@@ApollyonTD You're insisting that deep insight is something that can't be manifested by someone who isn't cognitively well equipped, lets say, while citing and example of it. That is a contradictory set of statements.
What you are describing is a false dichotomy, and by definition it must be, if it's the case that we have an example of an individual bridging the gap between your two subsets.
from wikipedia :
"A dichotomy /daɪˈkɒtəmi/ is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets). In other words, this couple of parts must be
jointly exhaustive: everything must belong to one part or the other, and
mutually exclusive: nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts."
You could have said, that's quite the contradiction, or that's interesting, but you are wrong in calling it a true dichotomy.
Not that it's a big deal, or anything, haha
I mean I think Mango should have also considered that hboxs streaming career has exploded over the past 5 months streaming ultimate. So money there really takes away from his reasons to keep going with melee. Why bother with all that stress when you can make a grand or 2 a day streaming ultimate and there is no pressure to win.
he’s popping off on twitch rn
Cause that shit is boring
armada might have the best records but Joey is melee. USA USA USA
Joeys right on his mentality game, he doesn’t even know frame data he just instinctively reads the opponent
“It’s impossible to try your hardest and lose”
Mango has had the support of the community the entire time though, and hbox kinda seems like he went through the opposite of that, so I don’t think hbox minds losing so much, it’s just that there’s thousands of people being toxic to him, which can take a toll on someone’s mentality, which is obvious when you take note of how many streamers have committed suicide in the past couple years
Most of the Hbox hate died down though and he has a legitimate following. I think people realized overall the hate wasn't justified and it's not as bad as it used to be.
@@High8Studio A lot of his following now is from people who are into his Ultimate content. It's true that the hate for him has died down a bit, partially because he himself seems to have mellowed out a bit and partially because I think the crab incident made people realize things were getting a little dumb, but the timing coincides with his rise in popularity for streaming/competing in Ultimate in a way that I think makes the distinction between "play Melee, everyone hates me" and "play Ultimate, everyone loves me" feel even stronger to him
Mang0 got hate when he was the best in the world with puff. Just saying.
@@crimsoncutz8430 The real reason is because the "There will never be another" Video. The video that says Hbox is the representation of melee. Its really is that simple.
I::: :::: and yet the most famous clip of his puff is him getting that roll read on armadas peach and everyone popping tf off
This is inspirational
Mang0's the GOAT. He speaks the truth. Mentality king.
The biggest problem with many PEOPLE, not just Melee players, is ego. The part of your brain that wants to be differentiated from everyone else fights for attention, wants the win but doesn't want to work for it, wants YOU to be comfortable at the expense of everyone else. And all the things that can dissolve the ego (read: psychedelics like mushrooms or DMT) are hilariously illegal, so good luck getting over that shit. Dissolving the ego is not only the best way to get better at competitive gaming after a certain threshold of skill; it's the only way any of us are going to survive the hell word that the egomania of our "leaders" has created. So, break the law.
Mang0 is the spirit of Melee.
Introspective mang0 is my favourite
Who was the best in 2014 though?
Man I'm a 25 year old man with a successful career as a competitor and Mang0 is actually and truly an inspiration
I love it when mango spits the truth.
Anybody knows the music's name at 13:00?
Get off your fuckin high horse. You don't see the world through HBox's eyes. You don't see the world through Armada's eyes.
I understand that you don't mean this video/topic in a bad way and it's what you genuinely believe is best for a game that you love, and I don't hate you. but you're a little outside your lane on this one.
Even if three people experience the exact same thing, they will handle it in different ways, and the right answer is different for everyone.
Love you Mang0.
I'm only in about 3 and a half minutes and I've never stared at the C9 logo so long. It's true appearance is shifting between my eyes trying to follow the lines.
I GENUINELY THINK i have fallen asleep and been like damn mang0 was sick in 2014
lol was rewatching this goated video after this glorious weekend and had to see if anyone else had this comment.
somehow after all these years mango managed to create maybe the most special memory yet though. cheers
yooo wtf mang0 being real? with facecam and lo-fi hiphop in the background? that's how you know you're about to be bestowed with some mfing knowledge
This is inspirational, nice video.
From the top of the biggest mountain, the GOAT, mang0 the 1st AKA the Kid, will plunge that D real deep into Sparks' Wifi
Thank you for helping me fix my mindset lol. If I lost in a tournament, maybe I just didn't deserve to win. I could always put in more time.
that reference to "The Inner Game of Tennis" at 3:49...
I respect mang0’s thoughts on the game! #mang0mentality
mang0 I care that you were the best in 2014 because it got me hooked on the scene
Modern day alan watts.
Lmfaooo
It's fucking weird that mango is the most self aware, high social IQ guy and be such a goon at the same time.
5:15 the most epic speech in melee
Bruh the ad after you talked about stroking was manscape trimmer lmao
ACTUALLY lol, M2K did come back for a lil bit and did perform well, beating Hbox twice. Let's give em a lil more credit here Mang.
I don't agree with everything but Mang0 do be spitting some truths.
If Hbox quits then Mang0 is literally the last god standing. Armada quit PP left M2K switched Hbox quits there’s no one left from the God Era.
Mang not go
PP and M2k went to a tournament not too long ago. M2k BH5, PP some local. Sure it's not much, but it still shows they'll come back every now and then. Hbox isn't gonna quit btw, he's just...exactly what Mango says he is right now.
Mango barely goes to anything. Hbox was the last God to consistently go to tournaments.
@@jacobm7870 Mango would only go to a few tournaments a year while Hbox would go to basically everything. Just check their tournaments placements and we'll see what I mean.
Mango would get notable placement and even a win or two but Mango has primarily been a streamer for years now.
@@AL-lh2ht Are you sure you keep up with competitive melee? Mang0 is very active when it comes to competing in tournaments. I believe he attended Genesis, Pound, GOML, Smash n splash, low tier city, smash camp, smash con, mainstage, TBH, and birthday bash. That's not just a "few" tournaments.
“I didnt start speedrunning” im fucking dead
It's not about who won the last tournament. It's about who's going to win the next one.
Why has mango not been using a cam i miss it
good take mango
Mang0 is gonna be #1 this year
Where's the cam? What is this a podcast now?
maybe mango secretly love Hbox
This is such an important video for anyone who competes at anything to watch. Sage incite