This Happened For The First Time! Complete Fail!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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Sorry to see things froze - it's not fun to loose all that work. But it was kind of you to share, really good points and also to mention that we don't always think straight in retrospect. Happens to all of us!
Thank you! No worries. Certainly a learning experience.
Awww….so sorry for your loss!😮😢 We know how much work goes into each and every plant! Thank you so much for sharing…the good and the bad! Dad always says, “Education is expensive!” He’s referring to our education on the farm. Unfortunately, it seems the lessons learned are the fails that we won’t forget! We are a farm TH-cam family of 5 girls in Kansas and we are in the midst of our education too!😊 Blessings to you and your family in 2023!
No worries. Education is surely expensive. We live and learn. Blessings
Man, sorry to see the destruction. Thanks for such an edifying channel.
Thank you!
Lemme tell you how I deal with ultra cold temps where I am at we went down to minus 5 degree Fahrenheit with a wind chill around 25 below. But I bought a bunch of furniture moving blankets which we installed over the green house and tied them down using paracord . We also have 55 gallon Plastic barrels filled with water that we painted black so they heat up during the day time even when it is cloudy. They release their heat through the night. Our green house maintained temps above 50 all night! We also have incandescent lights that we could string across the green house if we went below 40. But we didn't need them so far!
Glad you learned something & will do it differently next time!!We're all trying to do the very best we can! The most important thing you can do when there's an upsetting or bad situation is FORGIVE yourself and LEARN from yours or other's mistakes. Glad your family is doing better than your garden! 🤷🏻♀️
For sure. I am not that upset about it. I am thankful for the education contained within my mistake. I learned.
@@CountryLivingExperience May God Bless you as you homeschool your kiddos! One of the most important jobs you'll ever have & the only one that'll pay off for many many generations in your family. 🙏🏻✝️
❤ Thanks for sharing it helps so many.
You’re welcome
Isn’t it great how you teach us and we teach - what a blessing in life. Now we go forward growing together!
Amen to that. Community is great.
I am so sorry for suggesting to you to wrap it in a blanket...
I found my tank frozen in the morning as well...after the tank frozen shut during the -20 Celsius temperature here in Kentucky.
That's why I wrapped my tank in several blankets and it still froze after I made the comment, not realizing it still would freeze.
The liquid propane is Cold already when you turn it on, as it gets colder outside (being that it is a liquid) it freezes from both sides.
I had to pry off the blankets as well from the Tank BECAUSE they were frozen to the tank.
Again I am sorry for giving you bad advice 😭
Aww!! Don't feel that way! You tried to help! ❤️ The weather is so crazy, we are all trying to learn as we go! We all lost quite a bit, any suggestions are welcome!! We can all plant again and spring is coming. I hope you have a blessed day! 💚❤️💚
It was not your fault at all. No need to feel bad. It helped a bit on the big tank actually. There was just too much time between when the little tank quit and the big tank was able to heat up. It froze between those times.
Boy that is a bummer. Sorry to hear that! Yeah a second heater is probably your best option. Really have to thoroughly insulate those LP tanks in a situation like that. There is a balance between how high you set the burner and how quickly they can freeze up. It doesn't always make sense, but in temps like you had, higher heat setting is going to freeze the tank that much faster. Circulating the air will help immensely, in addition to a second heater. If there is no way to circulate the air it just accumulates at the top and you have to hope it gets warm enough to bank down to the ground. Be interesting to see how Pete B made out with his tank top heaters in his greenhouse. Thank you for sharing - some valuable lessons for sure! 🤠
No worries.
I didn't know a higher flow rate would cause icing faster. Good info.
I certainly need to get some electricity out in that greenhouse.
Aaaah man! What a bummer! I feel so bad for you and all your hard work taking such a hit.
No worries. I learned my lesson.
Idea: Consider a DIY Geothermal heat for the Greenhouse:
Take several runs of thousand foot PEX tubes and place 10 or more feet underground, with both ends of each run coming up in the greenhouse.
Connect a water pump to each run to circulate a non toxic liquid that can transport thermal mass from underground into greenhouse.
Connect both ends of each run to an automobile radiator.
Put a fan on one side of each of the radiators.
Attach a thermostat to an on off switch to turn on power to circulation pump and fan when outside of the temperature zone.
Now you have year round heat, for tge cost required to power the pump and fan.
I feel you man. I was worried that your greenhouse was to big fir the one heater. Mine is only 10×20 I just had it on low the whole time. Was very comfortable in there. I had 14 citrus trees and 1 avacoda. They looked fine but didn't use heater on the last day because it was only getting to 33° and figured it would be fine. But the next day was warm and very windy so I didn't open the end doors to cool of because afraid the wind would tear it up again. Looked the next day had huge amounts if leaf drop and Several trees had damage. Took them out and pruned them and still out today. Will havebti do different next year. Live and learn.... Jeff
Yep, crazy weather like that can create havoc. I certainly learned.
Consider putting smaller hoops over your beds.
I know, it’s a good idea to plan ahead but we’ll do what we can do. Next year we will plan ahead by our mistakes today. I’m sorry for your loss.
No worries. I learned from it and will plan accordingly now. 😉
Wow so sorry for your loss !! I too lost crops to this freezing weather (in central FL). I wonder if hot water heater insulating wrap would work for propane? my baby bok choy survived beautifully, collards did okay with spotty loss, even swiss chard survived with spotty loss. My mustard greens did fine, they're practically indestructible !
Daikon radish survived. I'm thankful for what survived. Thank you God for the lessons💚💚
No worries. Glad you had some hearty veggies that survived. I love learning new lessons that God gives me all the time.
Sorry to see this. Thank you for showing what happened. My green house is a 7x10x20. I hope one heats mine because it is coming tomorrow 🙂I will put a fan in it as well. Right now, I have electric heaters, but the top tank was going to be if the power went out. I watched your other video on the top tank. Thanks for sharing!
No worries. It happens.
Hope you can keep yours from freezing tomorrow.
I'm sorry your greenhouse took such a hit. Your plants were doing so great! I was afraid to go out to mine for days. It's tiny & unheated, but I had covered most of my plants with an old flannel-backed tablecloth. My meyer lemon doesn't look happy, nor does my brown turkey fig, but they survived. I lost a lavender plant, but luckily that's about it. Sometimes I think about giving up, then I step back into that little sanctuary, & forget all about it! God Bless!
Thank you. No worries. We live to plant another day! Blessings
@@CountryLivingExperience Isn't that the truth! I went out to my greenhouse & planted some echinacea purpurea this morning. I had a tiny little E. Paradoxa that didn't survive the cold either, so I will replant that, too. I planted echinacea 3 times last year, & twice none came up. The other time my puppy grabbed the pot when I set it down to water it. I'm determined to get it started this year!
Oh I saw the earlier post but I had two different types of heat and I could keep it 20 degrees warmer than the coldest day but at 10 degrees still everything froze and I was just as hurt as I knew you were as well but still thanks for sharing!
Sorry for the crop failure, Eric.
Harvest your Collard’s as they’ll taste sweeter after a hard frost.
Wrap your propane tank’s with Heat Tape (which we put in our rain gutters and downspouts), then wrap your tanks with insulation. We have to do this for our tanks for our bbq.
Sorry again man.
No worries. Yes, the collards are wonderful after a cold snap. I need electricity in the greenhouse to use the tape.
You might be able to put your tanks in a kitty pool with some water in it. That should help keep it from freezing.
A small fan running off a rechargeable usb power bank will last for hours or even days depending on the setup. I have a usb fan and power bank for each family member. Comes in super handy in a no power situation.
Im sorry for your bad luck this season. Im shure it froze but also im thinking that all propane heaters consume oxigane from the room and flames die off. Possible its a combination of both. Plants also need oxigane to survive. Try to get party tent heaters that run on diesel outside and bring hot air in thru big insulated tubes. We used those in October on my daughters wedding and it worked great.
No worries.
Plants actually produce oxygen. They consume CO2 or carbon dioxide. Plants only need a small amount of oxygen at night. Additionally the greenhouse is not airtight so there is no way for there to be an oxygen free environment.
There's a guy in Nebraska who grows oranges in walpini style greenhouses. Heated/cooled with earthtubes. Honestly I think with climate change making the weather *wild* we all might have to use something like that. Nice to see a fellow east Texan.
I have seen that video. It is amazing.
3 gallons of water above ground per square foot of greenhouse space should give you sufficient thermal mass to prevent freezing. You mentioned the option, and that's the calculation. If you do run electricity to your greenhouse, consider adding a second layer of poly to the roof and a small inflation fan; that would reduce heat loss by 30% though that section. You can also connect air tubes between the side walls and the roof to extend the double poly inflated areas. With poly you can also get IR/AC films that reflects in the infrared radiation back inside the house. I know that smell of frozen greenhouse tomatoes, lol.
Thanks for the calcs. I thought about an inflated house at one point early on....maybe I will revisit that for next winter.
Rice in a sock heated in the microwave and put where the regulator is helps the propane to flow!
I have a 10x18 passive solar greenhouse in Ohio - got down to -35 wind chill down here. with a small Bio-Green electric heater and the GAHT system - I was able to keep it to 29* lowest which I was impressed - it was the coldest I've got thru since I built it - but I also lost my tomatoes and peppers. So just figured cold hardy plants. I pulled tomatoes off before I pulled out the plants - and lot of them are now turning color.
Here in n tx, 32x60 all froze except cabbage, arugula. Beets n carrots were just starting to pop up and now look good. No heat inside
Awesome. Our beets and broccoli came back. Arugula, kale, and cabbage are looking fine.
I got two electric heaters in my house and two fans are always on
Ok, hindsight hurts sometimes!! I've seen people make hoops and cover with plastic their plants in their greenhouses. With your set-up, you wouldn't have expected to need to do that though.
It does but I am glad I can learn from mistakes.
Wow I feel for you, sure is hard to predict how the cold will affect a greenhouse...
No worries. We live and learn.
I started typing a response about heatsinks and in the last minute you mentioned them. I still will mention specifically what idea I want to try. I agree that the designs with water involve an insane amount of barrels. But I have been researching sand batteries and was thinking how about that. I am thinking a metal barrel filled with sand, with a heating element in the middle hooked up to some solar panels would work. You can store a lot more heat in sand than water, so maybe a few in the corners of the greenhouse, wired together. They can absorb heat from the sun but also an array of solar panels can pump a few kWh of heat into them when the suns out, or you could plug them in as well, get them super warm/hot during the day. If you fill them up to the brim, you can place a wood stove fan on top of them to circulate the air when the barrel is warm enough to trigger the peltier. I think even one sand barrel next to each tank could keep the tank from freezing. Could even alternatively just use
The only other thing that comes to mind watching your videos is wondering if you could double wall the tunnel once you get some power out there so you can run a fan to puff out the inner layer. Might even be able to use a cheaper plastic as a temporary inner layer. This might be better than the sand barrels as an insulative bubble might do the best job at blunting a cold snap. Good luck.
Thank you. That is an intriguing idea re: the sand barrels. I wonder what type of element will work and react with the sand. I have thought about doubling the greenhouse film. Big thing to do this coming year is to get electricity in that greenhouse.
The electric heat tape that gets used to wrap water pipes, is low wattage. 2-7 watts per foot depending on manufacturer. With a very small solar setup, One 250 watt solar panel, One 12V 100 AH lithium battery, a charge controller and a very small DC to AC Inverter (say 100 watts or so) you could wrap the heat tape around your tank(s) and then insulating - with a blanket. When the temp falls to 35F the heat tape automatically turns on. This might be a workable solutuion
Cool. Thanks for the idea.
Whenever you use propane from a tank you are evaporating a liquid to a gas causing the tank to drop in temperature. When the ambient temperature around the tank is frigid it lowers the pressure even more causing less heat to be put out from your apparatus. Pouring hot water on your propane tank can help the situation by warming the tank.
Thanks for the heads up
We live, we learn, we plant another day. Sucks for your crop loss. Side question, have you thought about doing a geothermal greenhouse? Other than the pain of digging it out what are some of the pros and cons of doing one that you could see happening?
For sure. I live to fight another day! Not sure geothermal is an option for us because of the location of the greenhouse.
With no sun and freezing temps, the greenhouses with plastic are marginally better than being out in the open. Plastic has basically zero insulation value so it takes a lot of heat to keep the inside above freezing.
2 heaters and a good fan will probably do about as well as you can expect. Even then, extended sub-zero temps are going to wreak havoc on a greenhouse made of plastic sheeting.
Even my collard greens got hit hard and they are very cold tolerant.
I'm retired now and out of touch with the industry, but the citrus industry in Florida started in North Florida, moved to central Florida after a freeze, and is now mostly located down around Lake Okeechobee in south Florida. A freeze won't normally kill the trees, but you'll lose your entire year's crop. I've seen lemon trees in the Central Valley of California get zapped by an unexpected freeze and take 2 years to recover.
It would have been fine if I had the fan and another burner. I had never had that problem in the past.
Maybe you can put a couple 55 gallon containers of water in there with a heat exchanger hooked to some solar coil panels to help retain some heat.
I tried the 55 gallon containers before. You need a lot of them to work properly.....more than half the greenhouse.
@@CountryLivingExperience Yikes! Maybe a reservoir directly below everything might work. 🤷♂️. I was planning on making some solar panel coil enclosures with copper and paint them black. Run coolant through them on 12v pump with heat exchangers inside the water mass in our greenhouse (once we build it). Unfortunately, in Rochester, NY the sun doesn’t cooperate too much for at least 4 months out of the year. Maybe I’ll just stick to my indoor hydroponics in the off months. Each 3x3 ebb flow tray produces quite quickly and low maintenance but, again, 300watts per tray for LED panels can add up.
Your heater burns propane gas, not liquid. When liquid propane changes to a gas it must absorb heat from surrounding air. Wrapping the tank hindered this heat absorption, so the only heat it could get is from itself, plumetting its own temperature. When temperature dropped so did its pressure and burner went out. Need a bigger tank or simply several more small ones. If room temp. could have been maintained this wouldn't have happened.
Propane will still vaporize (boil) at -40 F. What happens is condensation freezes in the regulator and stops the flow. The propane itself does not "freeze" unless it gets below -43.6 degrees F. I have a much smaller greenhouse (high tunnel) than yours and I still lost everything back during the Feb 2021 Texas freeze even though I had a propane heater inside. The regulator froze up and I didn't catch it until it was too late.
Thanks for the heads up. First time this happened to me as I said. Maybe my regulator froze up....all I saw was the frozen condensation at the bottom of the outside of the tanks.
@@CountryLivingExperience Yep. The liquid propane does get really cold when discharging it. That causes the metal tank to get freezing cold and any condensation will freeze on it, but that doesn't mean the propane froze. I have a propane bbq grill and even in the Summer (90 degrees +) the condensation can freeze on the tank if the propane is coming out at a fast rate. Like if I have all 3 burners going at the same time. lol
What do you think happened? Regulator frozen? When I went in there, the tank was half full and it was barely trickling out.
@@CountryLivingExperience I'm pretty sure it had to be moisture in the regulator. I have a friend Garry who works at the propane filling place in town. I asked him what might have happened and he said more than likely it was the regulator. One other possibility might be the OPD valve. Sometimes they can freeze up as well.
@@northeasttexasgardener Thank you for the heads up. I wonder if there is a way to prevent those two things from happening.
You are human, you made a mistake, learn from it and go on. Sorry your mistake is now our gain. Thanks for sharing, some people won't share their mistakes, so no one learns. When plants die, compost! God bless and keep growing.
Learning is the best part. Glad to help. I certainly have a lot of new compost material....lol.
It happens. In fact, I know someone whose huge aquaponics greenhouse froze solid during a Polar Vortex freeze event, and they lost all of their plants AND all of their fish.
At least you were monitoring the temperature in the greenhouse remotely and got a low temperature alert. So, it was more a matter of not having a rock solid heating system with some sort of emergency backup heating system as well.
A cautionary tale to us all. We know that global climate change is happening, and that it will create all sorts of extreme weather events. Might as well prepare now and have all your greenhouse temperature control procedures fully proven and ready for a future crisis that is surely going to come.
I'll be watching the comments to see if there are any wise recommendations for winter temperature control systems, since we're planning to do a greenhouse very soon. (But we plan on building a walipini, earth sheltered greenhouse, so hopefully it will be easier to keep it from freezing.)
Hang tough! We all live & learn thru life's trials & tribulations..
Yep, I do learn from those tribulations for sure. I will also be exploring different options for next winter.
i wonder if old school kerosene lanterns or coleman lanterns in the greenhouse to help keep the propane tanks a little warm would have worked
Interesting. Not sure.
Did you have a fan to circulate air? That might have helped . . . would be more uniform heat distribution.
The blanket was wrong, that is not how it works. You needed to put the bottle in a big tub of hot water.
The boiling gas dropped the temp of the gas.
If you do get a pellet stove an option would be a solar generator to run the auger and fan.
I think it would have to be a large system to create the arc/spark to burn the pellets.
@@CountryLivingExperience Oh, I thought once you started a flame the pellets just fed the fire.
🙏🏻
Wow this is expensive experience So sorry
Not too bad. Luckily we seed save.
For the most part how has the weather been this winter has it been more sunny days than cloudy days ?
I haven't really tracked them and compared them to past years. I kind of go with the flow with the weather.
@@CountryLivingExperience oh okay I asked only because it really has been overcast cloudy the whole winter here may have seen the son a few times since Halloween till now I never really started paying attention myself until I got on a solar power I realize this is not the place for it to be cloudy the whole entire winter it's crazy to me I can't even have fun with my system because there's nothing out there day after day nothing
I understand. No fun if you cannot play with your new cool stuff.
@@CountryLivingExperience right I do have the new Mini Split sitting here in my living room just trying to figure out what to do with it and where to place it
With the Banana., cut the trunk by 1/3 or 1/2 and see if it will come back!
Thanks. It is already coming back.
Wrapping propane tanks does complete opposite of “keeping tanks warm”.
Propane is a liquid that boils off to a gas which in turn removes heat and causes the liquid propane to cool down.
Short story you need to keep the tanks unwrapped.
Feel free to get the in depth answer from me.
Do tell. The small tank froze almost solid without wrapping. So I transitioned to wrapping.
@@CountryLivingExperiencewill do. Had to work tonight after the comment. I will get you up to speed soon.
@@CountryLivingExperience Propane tanks have what's called a rate of vaporization. That would be determined by the physical size of the tank and how cold it is outside which in turn gives a btu/hr the propane tank can handle for load, the bigger the tank the more heat it can absorb even at frigid outdoor temps to "boil" the liquid propane. The liquid propane needs heat absorbed through the tank itself to keep the vaporization of the liquid propane to propane gas which matches the amount of vapor being burned by the burners. Keep in mind LP boils at around -45 F from memory. Even in my climate at -40 F air temps, our 1000 gallon propane tanks never "freeze" because they can vaporize enough gas to keep furnaces and water heaters running. I have found charts online before just dont have it handy at the moment that show the different tank sizes and ambient temps to give an exact btu/hr they can handle. And with saying that, they need the heat even from the cold outdoor temps, the blanket and or frost insulates it further preventing more heat to transfer into the liquid through the tank. With high snow amount areas we also have to keep snow away from the tanks to keep the snow from insulating the tank and reducing the vaporization rate.
Very interesting. Thank you
Bad turn of events. What a mess.
But plenty of different ideas in comments.
Never owned a greenhouse so I'm just spit ballin' here.....
A couple of folks mentioned double wall /fan inflated & air tube in the walls tactics. That's something I'd seriously consider. Primarily because it's *passive* . We might reach a point in a few years where propane etc get too expensive to use for greenhouse warming.
I think we should strive to use as many passive designs and such as possible. We might have to make do with smaller/ better designed houses & greenhouses that require less "active measures" to heat/cool and ventilate.
Long ago I saw a YT video of a family up North who had a greenhouse adjacent to the house. Nothing fancy or expensive. They basically ran an insulated plastic pipe from greenhouse roofline to the house and were getting a surprising amount of warm air to about 1/3 of the house. While this probably doesn't make sense for E. Texas I was impressed with the simplicity and the positive results.
Good luck on cleanup and repairs.
Thanks. No worries. It happens.
I had thought about the inflatable system in the past but do not have electricity in the greenhouse to inflate it. It is actually not a passive system since it takes constant air pressure from the fan to keep the two layers inflated. They are not airtight by any means.
The only semi (almost) passive design would be a Walapini style which we would have a challenging time building here.
just eat beef
Uhhh, no.