5th Wheel "Frame" Fail Repair.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- Today I wanted to share what I found when I had to do a repair on the front of our 5th Wheel. I learned there is more than what I originally knew to be holding the wall to the chassis and was able to fix what was causing our problems. I also wanted to point out a few thoughts I had on the two new emails from Grand Design as some people are excited and some are disappointed.
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I'm in the too little, too late camp. Their lack of response (until now) shows their true values.
Grand Design has made my retirement difficult. Their guarantees are very good, but annually I miss visiting my adult childrens’ families to revisit the factory for repairs. I planned to visit my adult children annually, not biannually! I bought a Ram the same year (2022) and have yet to spend this much time at the factory / dealership for major repairs. My 1st trailer was a 2006 Outback with very few problems comparatively. This six figure Solitude is ridiculous! I purchased quality and got fool’s gold. This is my first and last Grand Design! Retirement shouldn’t be planned around service appointments at the Grand Design Service Center!
Agreed! I don't know how old your Grand Design is, and I realize that different RV's have different issues, although many are the same. I say this because we have an '08 Tiffin Phaeton, have had it for four years, and have yet to have to take it to a Tiffin manufacturer. I did take it in for a side issue once in that time, but any other small issues I've been able to take care of myself with little expense. Not to say one is better than another, but sometimes buying older, will be a better buy, even without a warranty!
"Frame Flex". According to Grand Design up until recently that did not exist even though many many people had damage. I'm pretty disgusted with how long it took the company to finally admit there is a problem.
This is the most levelheaded and informative video concerning the structural issues that are currently plaguing the RV industry. Well done!
I've yet to see a video where anyone looks and finds that all the lags are present and secure. If Grand design can't figure out how to make a rig that doesn't really fall apart, they deserve the market response they'll get
Jared, your willingness to jump in to a situation and figure it out is amazing. I've learned and grown so much by watching channels like yours. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I could not agree more with the above statement! Great job Jared!!!
I feel that the "missing" lag bolts is a GD issue with QC. If Lippert is building the chassis to GD spec, then they are not going to be punching extra holes not in the plan as that costs LIppert money, and GD is not not going to spec something unnecessary that adds cost at their end. So I am highly confident that all the holes were intended to be used, but QC let it slide.
You never know if that part is the same going to different manufacturers. Some may want the extra holes, others may not. From a tooling perspective it's more cost effective to build it one way for every manufacturer instead of changing it for each individual manufacturer.
I'm sure that different manufacturers use the same exact frame.
@@windrider65 everything i have read and watched says lippert builds to the RV mfg spec. Not sure the chassis'are shared. Regardless the loose bolts in this video and others indicates a problem
You are 100% incorrect. Lippert has a document which specifically states how many lags to place on each frame. It does not match up with the number of holes. For example, a Solitude 310GK frame has six lag bolt holes per side. However, Lippert's documentation specifically states that four lag bolts must be used.
However, now that the "stuff" has hit the fan, GDRV is electing to fill all the lag bolt holes.
Agreed. Lippert builds the frames/chassis to each RV manufacturer's specs. I have a background in Reliability Eng/Quality/Maintenance and right away I saw that this was a quality issue. Maybe they do, but it appears to me that GD does not have a good quality management system in place. The response from the CEO further made me believe this since he basically deflected and did not take ownership of the issue, i.e. using the words "flex" vice "failure" and "disinformation, misinformation".
As one person had an opinion yesterday in a TH-cam video, where he stated the manufacturers are building RV's for 'weekenders' not for full timers, or even those using them for a month! With issues from axles not withstanding longer trips, tire issues, and now the house part of the structure including the frame, are just not standing up. Some of course are worse than others, but the quality and quality control is abysmal at the factory, and with that, prior to this video, didn't seem to be able to handle all the problems under warranty! Building units quick, to make them pretty on the outside, just doesn't work any more, and owners are terribly angry, where they shouldn't have to be! I'm wondering, with the lots being jammed with RV's currently, with new one's being pushed out daily, how many more issues are going to take place, before the manufacturers actually build the 'quality' unit's they deserve?
Somehow I suspect your DIY fix will yield better results than many others will receive on their rigs. Thanks for showing the details.
Jared, it is not just an upper deck problem. They switched frames to a thinner/lighter frame and many of these Grand design 5th wheel RVs are damn near overweight out of the factory. Good example is the Solitude 390rk. Our friends empty Solitude 390rk was over 400lbs. empty. Our Momentum 395ms-r empty (minus 9 solar panels, 4 270ah lithium batteries (324lbs.) and about 1/4 of gas in the back sits at 17980 and we are a toy hauler. This is much bigger issue than Grand Design is disclosing. My FB site alone with 3200 members can prove all of this.
I was one of the first owners to bring the "frame flex" issue to Grand Design's attention. My trailer went to the dealer first, where only 10 of the required 28 fasteners were present and loose. The wall plates were being ripped off the longitudinal frame tubes due to the walls bouncing on them. This was in January 2022. By October 2022, GD wanted my trailer back in Indiana for the "real fix". Mine was the 5th trailer to get the "fix" which has changed since then. The wall-to-frame attachment method is an industry-standard approach. Even Luxe and New Horizons use it. All GD 5th wheels are now being built on the Lippert Rhino frame. The new design addresses the poor design of the previous frames where the pin box mount was between 2" x 6" lateral tubes which caused the floor of the upper deck to flex when on the hitch. The Rhino frame uses a 6" x 6" lateral tube to which the pin box mount is welded to. You aren't going to flex this monster. IMHO, this is a silent admission of guilt on Lippert's part. 15 - 20 years ago, shorter lags were used. Lippert would drill the inside hole large enough for the head of the lag to pass thru and the lag would only be fastening the exterior wall to the outside wall of the frame tube, not thru the tube.
Just watched JD on BTBRV review Riverstone frame attachment. Impressed with carriage bolts from outside through frame.
When you compare Riverstone to this frame....well it's not even a comparison.
I just watched the same!
@@uowebfoot100%, there is no comparison. your want to see one even beefier look at a DRV frame.
They also have great customer service and support. We need to see more of this.
Me too. Again, I’m in Elkhart for scheduled repairs at the Grand Design Service Center. Because of JD’s videos, I looked at some Riverstone 5th wheels and I was impressed! I didn’t find the one that called my name, but m eyes are wide open. It’s difficult to find all the models.
You never cease to amaze me Jared. You just jump right in and get things done no matter how complicated. You are fearless. You sure saved a lot of time in the shop. I’m in awe. Hope you had help. I don’t understand why GD wouldn’t have put out a statement earlier just saying they know about the problem and are working on a solution.
Just saw a Riverstone video that JD from BTBRV and they carriage bolt the floor and walls to the frame. Really nice of the manufacturer to recognize this issue.
I love the work you put into re-engineering what the manufacturer built. I think there are a lot of ways to improve RV's over the ways they've been built for a while. I think the effort you put in to strengthen the front end is great and I hope to mimic this work someday with my RV. Thanks for leading the way and being a positive force on this matter.
JB Weld is always my go to chemical adhesive. Love your content Jared! ♥️🙌🏼
Agreed! I even carry some in my purse! I swear by it and I use it for everything. 👌
Hey Jered
Being from the marine industry, I was surprised with techniques and materials used across the board in the rv industry. Although RVs don’t have to float; they take a terrible pounding on the road
Wear and tear issues are to be expected
On our 2016 Thor Super C on the 550 Ford Chassis I was surprised to find the forward end cap overhang was never fastened to the truck cab top.
When I pulled the headliner down and disassembled for access there was not a single screw or bolt installed. This then caused the front cap side attachment to partially separate from the cabin sides.
We installed 8 1/4-20 stainless bolts with aircraft nuts thru the cabin top to front cap joint. We removed the front cap to cabin side inserts, common steel No 8 sheet metal screws, tapped into the aluminum plates into which the machine screws had been driven, the replaced all 20 per side with 10/24 stainless machine screws. 2500 miles later all is well. The rig is more quiet and stiffer.
I always blame management. Most of the time the workers are doing what they are told by management, but if not the team managers should be doing routine reviews of the work they are turning out.
Some of us are handy, others are not. I do feel sorry for folks who buy faulty units. Some of these issues cannot be found during inspections without pulling panels, which most inspectors are reluctant to do.
Enough said for now
Thank you so much for your educational and unemotional videos.
I’ve recommended you to several people
Thanks again
Mike Previti
I've suggested a number of times that the industry looks at marine design. RV's seem very pricey for how they are built compared to yachts.
I had worked on fleet of boats, heavy equipment, helicopters and aircraft. The RV industry is definitely missing out on better products that would make them better, cheaper, lighter, more efficient on production and quicker times on production.
But they won’t listen.
Great job on the fix! Troubling responses from GD however it’s great they’re extending warranty.
Lippert is the common demonstrator. I have a VanLeight with similar issues. Love your point of covering second owners. Being a second owner VanLeight and lippert hung me out to dry. My flex looks ti be fixed but on my dime. Great video!
You nailed it, Jared. I hope GD is listening. Thank you for another informative video.
Love your content and appreciate your willingness to share what you know with us. RV'ing is about the travel but without a useable RV, it's nothing. So grateful for you!
I love seeing how my property is put together, so I know where to start when there's a problem and can fix it myself! Great video!
Thank you for presenting a calm and rational approach to this issue! The entire RV industry could benefit from stepping up its game. AND the end-users need to better educate themselves before signing on the dotted line. Through education, I've learned that the majority of the RVs produced today just aren't for me at this juncture of my life.
Jared, you are an absolute class act, sir.
Great content. It's grest to get an understanding of where components and frame come together. Taking a step back, the idea of using lag bolts on components that flex are never good. I have a Rockwood and they fixed it out of warranty, but the same problems with the lag bolts.
In general, all 5th wheels should come with a shock absorbing hitch. The road transfer between truck and rig, really exasperates the issue.
Thanks Jared! Great information.
Excellent video. Ultimately GD mounted the wall to frame so to me, this is on them. Really appreciated you showing how you resolved the issue with your rig.
Not for nothing but you have great diction and delivery! Very easy to watch your videos.
Thanks Jarod....great honest video!
Hey Jared: I've been watching your videos for about a year now, and you never mention what Reflection model that you currently have nor the year of it. I do agree with everything you brought up, and we too have had a few issues that we completely think could have been QC issues with either GD or LCI. I have learned with our 2023 320MKS, though, that the dealer is about the last place anyone wants to take their coach to get fixed- I've taken ours 3 times and the fixes have certainly been half-assed. The last one a couple of months ago was a bulkhead fitting on the black tank's flush line that broke off, so they replaced the black flush line and installed a Tornado to replace it. Fine so far, but while we were on our 4700 mile trip just a week ago, the hose blew off in such a fashion that it completely blew off the entire front coroplast belly leaving chunks of missing coroplast where the screws were, and required us to drill new screw holes to get it fastened for therest of the trip. In that process, I also discovered that the dealer hadn't replaced any of the insulation in the front half of the belly, which was kinda a good thing that we didn't have to deal with putting the insulation back. Also in that process we discovered that the clear flush line hose they attached WITHOUT any type of hose clamp which caused the blowout. All of this just points to ineptitude and a non-caring dealer and I have vowed that there will only be one more visit to that dealership to have the insulation and coroplast replaced.
Hi Jared, Thank you so much for all the effort and information you put out to the Community! Fortunately we haven’t experienced any flex or separation to date.your channel is an “old friend” when I want to see what’s happening in the GD Reflection world. We have a 2021 303RLS and are quite happy with “Betty”Blessings to you and your family!
So first of all I've been a fan for a long long time. I"ve watched you do things I would do (LiFePo batteries, solar, etc.) I've watched some of the road hazards you've had to deal with. If I was there in person and able to help, I'd be lifting body panels and jacking up subframes, etc.
Then... you said you guys were done with the RV lifestyle. I didn't take it like "My RV lifestyle buddy has left". I took it as "Hey I really enjoyed what you posted and HOW you explained WHY you did things, and you were always including me and us into your process. That is priceless. Thank you. So to me was tell the girlfriend "Those awesome people on TH-cam are onto their next thing."
And you're back. I love it. But... you're experienciencing some negative e stuff. I'm sorry that is happening. And YET you still keep smiling and showing off how to fix things and make them better. Sorry, Grand Design has been a ffailure. Lately the whole RV mfg industry is ridiging its laurels.
Thanks for another great educational video and a balanced approach.
Well done Jared, great information and solutions bud.
Thanks Ross!
Great unbiased video. I just don't understand the concept of the lag bolt threaded into the stick stuffed thin alum tube (super structure) to support the upper deck FRAME? I'm not an engineer, so I don't understand why the frame does not support the side walls. Or, why there is not a plated thru fastener that compresses the side wall to the upper deck frame with a torqued lock nut. Just can't see lag bolts standing up to the rigorous duty of constant side force shear movement. I suppose time / miles will tell.
Thanks for another great video!!
Rosie and I bought a 2017 Solitude 310 GK. We put a lot of our own modifications in it. Many of those were from channels such as yours. We put the air cond. mod that you had on your site. We did all the mods on ourselves, so we didn't spend too much, but a lot of sweat equity. Then it started to fall apart. Springs went one at a time until Nate stepped in and they provided beefed up springs. Then the shackles went and by that time Nate had left the company. One by one the tires failed and I put G-rated ones on. We paid big bucks for new shackles only to have them fail and got no backing from Grand Design. Then the rear end came away from the frame and would swing free as we went down the road. Again, no help from GD. We finally got rid of that piece of junk. Now we are just past a year in our Brinkley and just love it. Burlington Bill busking on the road and here on you-tube.
Wow! That’s inexcusable that GD wouldn’t help.
@@ceciliapetrowsky2572 We have moved on. Our Brinkley is really nice. We have had it to Alaska and spent the winter in Arizona.
Same problem with my 2011 Keystone Avalanche 5th wheel. Just did the same repair. Enjoy your great videos!
Thanks Jared
Great video! Very informative and helpful! Appreciate your analysis!
Good video, Jared.
I did the same repairs two months ago, just on my door side of our 2020 382wb.
I think you are spot on with your observations and comments.
The lags are a rather inadequate design element, but it's the RV norm.
I could go on and on, but not now.
Good job!
Excellent video! I like your attitude on this issue. I would a to see a standardization of all builds in a manual printed up for mechanics and see how it goes together
Jared find your videos informative and interesting. Thank you.
Really appreciate the info!!!
Thanks for the video. I agree with you on all points and am glad you didn't scrap the video. I hope my GD TT 2400BH holds together for a long time to come. I have had some trim fall off, the couch not screwed in properly, and the sliding door on the bedroom need to be rebuilt (all done myself) and hope that these are just the teething problems that come with a new RV (it's an early 2022).
Very informative! Thanks...
Thanks Jared, I own a 2020 GD Solitude and haven’t experienced these issues but this is the type of information is needed to be put out there and glad GD is stepping up to make it better. It’s not easy coughing up 80-120k on these Fifth wheels to then a few years down the road have this start to fall apart. Thank you for your videos.
Thank you Great to hear! Just curious how many bolts do you have on the inside of the upper deck? I’m curious if it’s 2 or 5 on each side.
Great information. We’ve had concerns about our lag bolts in the walls as well. I might need to go snooping around in the front behind that fascia as well. Nearly 5 years full time and probably 70k miles on our Keystone Montana 3813ms and it’s showing some signs of various issues. But that’s quite a bit of rattling the thing around.
Nice job!
Way to go Jared, this is probably the best, most comprehensive single video on these issues I've seen. And I've done a major deep dive into frame issues because we've had 2 5th wheels bought back by Keystone for frame failure in 3 years. It's about time GD extended the frame warranty to second owners. It should have been that way from the start, and they would have quelled this issue right away. I'm still in the camp of Too Little Too Late though, as they haven't even made the slightest mention that they have addressed the route cause of these failures. We're seeing frame failures on brand new 2024 units, so it's clear they still aren't taking this seriously.
As an engineer myself, if my products were having these wide spread problems, I'd be pushing management for a full pause on production until they can come up with a permanent solution. That's clearly not happening. Instead they continue to force content creators into very restrictive NDAs to try and quiet the public outcry.
Lots of good information. I would also suggest consider using polyurethane adhesives which allow some slight flexing of components without failing. Sikkaflex 221 is an example. All rvs rattle, shake and flex an amazing amount on the road. Marine epoxy resins with various additives/ modifiers can be more cost efficient than JB weld on larger projects. West System, Total Boat and MAS make great systems of resins.
Hey, i just met you down at vacation village and i didn't really get the chance to say thanks for what you do. i have a 2021 grand design solitude 378mbs and i like to do pretty much all the repairs myself. most of the items that i have bought have been because of your reviews. i built a slide out tray for my westinghouse 4600 that i have a video that i was going to show you but didn't get the chance. great channel!
Thanks for showing your repairs! Made sense :)
Awesome video. Thank God they don't build boats.. We never see issues with boats and they take a beating just like rvs'. I also understand that you enjoy your rv, because you are very skilled and I think you said you are or was a contractor. Most of the repairs you've done, I bet most of us would not attempt such a job. Thank you for posting Enjoy your day.
We had a small GD travel trailer for a couple years and at the end of last year were consider fifth wheels to begin wintering in southern TX. Because we were already hearing about this issue we steered clear of GD units and chose a Brinkley. There are rigs out there built even better but we had a budget and we’re happy with our choice. Ultimately I hope GD does everything they can to rectify this a regain their reputation. I don’t agree with comments that say RVs are all garbage. It’s the small percent that have serious issue and I believe 90% (my guess) of us are happy campers. Thank you Jared. Keep bringing us relevant content.
While on the lot at a local Jayco dealer, the sales rep. actually stated, "All RVs are junk, you just have to figure out who builds the best junk." And I believe the term junk may not always apply to just the design and build quality of the unit itself, but also the quality/reliability of the 3rd party components that are installed in it or on it. The RV industry is rather intriguing in itself. No one would ever consider purchasing a new car or truck that needed some kind of repair (minor or major) nearly every time it was driven on the same roads on which they pull their RV, but yet we've kind of settled for the fact that this is the norm and we have to deal with it. I've heard it said that the RV industry is (3) R's - Relax, Repair, and Repeat. I too hope Grand Design (and others) can get on solid ground again. Enjoy your new Brinkley!
Excellent content in this video.
I AM SO GLAD we have a pre-pandemic travel trailer. It is 7 years old and holding up well so far. We now have it stored in a metal building so we hope it will last. They no longer make our exact Flagstaff 832IKBS floor plan, so we have no idea what we would replace it with. We have not found a better floor plan we like. We did redesign the living area: took out the dining table, took out the loveseat, moved the recliners to the slide outs and custom made a queen sleeper sofa along the back wall. The new floor plan works well for us!
This was a well thought out and repairs video. The thing with the bigger toy haulers is the gusset in the corners essential on the slide.
But it's still a very well-done video.
It's not a very easy repair process for a novice, but slow and easy. You can do this.
Thank you!!!! Nervous about buying my next rv which I want a fithwheel. I want to use to live in warmer climate during the winter in my area.
Great job on this video. I’m glad you showed how to fix YOUR issue not everyone else’s. I thing grand design needs to tell Lippert to built a stronger frame. I believe Lippert only built to Grand Design specs
Jared, the lag bolts attaching the wall is not a Lippert thing per-se. It’s an engineering decision based off the type of wall a manufacturer uses. With a laminated all like GD uses the only way to attach it and have the fasteners hidden is to use lags from the inside since the outer skin is put on before the wall it put on the RV. lots of manufacturers use this type of wall construction and as such attach them similarly to GD.
Then there is the hung wall units like DRV, Riverstone and Cedar Creek where they use lag bolts because the outer skin is put on last. It’s a much better process IMHO and it’s one of the many reasons i bought a DRV over a GD or other laminated wall unit.
Well that sucks. Unfortunately it seems more and more build quality is bad. I’m hoping my 2021 it’s one of those. Enjoy your videos and the helpful tips.
So much fun!!!
I have a 2020 311 bhs. Now i have to look and see how many bolts i have. Thanks for bringing this to my attention
This was great, thanks for the info on the fix, the updated warranty and your thoughts! New Sub here!
Good information, we have a GD.
Thanks!
You bet! Thank you!
All the petty complaints cause the serious ones to get overlooked or ignored in the noise. Glad they are finally listening.
Jared, this is such a great video! Email me if you don't mind. I have an idea for a collaboration!
Sounds good! Will do!
Thanks Jared, now I know what it looks like and how you did your repair. Ours is a 2019 Solitude S-Class and so far 25000 miles, I don't see an issue but that is not to say there isn't one on ours as well, it just hasn't shown up yet.. Its what you can't see that will bite you. A few years back before all this frame breakage started, looking at these nice new Reflection, Solitudes and Momentums on the dealer's lots, you would never know what troubles were lurking behind the walls.
I'm not left or right, about in the middle, but so far as a GDRV owner, I am not happy with their response. It's too much CYA and they are now paying for it.
The problem is if you're going to rely solely on screws for this kind of attachment in a vibration environment they need to be structural screws. Normal screws are strong in tension but quite brittle, so any lateral movement results in metal fatigue and failure (as you witnessed with the sheared off screws). Given the absurd size and weight of modern RVs it's hardly surprising that the frame flexs and puts stresses on both the shell attachments and eventually the frame itself.
I wish I could give you 3 thumbs up. Great video.
I like how you DIY things. This is one reason why I don't want a 5th wheel, I've seen a lot of them with the frame problem no matter the company. I'm not a Grand Design fan for several reasons but don't have a favorite company either. I am looking for a used travel trailer toy hauler because there will be a lot of boondocking so I need something with a onboard generator. We already have a class A but I will not drive it, can't take it to Semi truck shows so we need something we can tow and it won't bang it totally up with our classic Semi trucks towing it.
I thing the steel thy use should be stronger. Stop Worrying about the weight and build them right. Strengthen the sides twere they attached to the frame.
This is unbelievable. No way would I buy a grand design. All the folks with issues and no support. Thanks
I'm a Retired Navy CWO3 engineering officer. I can't believe they just blow a hole in the frame and don't reinforce it with a bounding bar ! Saw a Winnebago 5th wheel a few years back and the same thing,they penetrated the frame with no reinforcement! Never would let this happen on a ship with all the movement. 😮
I watched a video from an " RV Technician " who actually blamed RV owners for broken frames, saying they are not setting them up properly as far as the hitch. This is usually done by the dealer after purchase. I really think you probably did a better job as far as repairs than the manufacturer is concerned. I think people need to boycot RV dealers, putting pressure on the whole industry. If no one is buying these junk RV's it will hurt them where it counts, financially. Eather start making better RV's, or go out of business. It's not rocket science.
Wow! Your the man, can't belive you did that yourself. You need to go to GD and start advising how to do it.
Great content thank you, enjoy your channel. What length lags did you use in the bedroom when you added the extra lags?
As always, great informative video. What type / brand of calking / sealant did you use Aon your 5th wheel front deck repair?
Any metal frame and subframe must be fastened with properly sized nuts and bolts. Lag screws are unheard of for this and are made for wood only.
Now that you have more lag screws, if you do experience frame flex, and a 2”x2” wood will not stop that, I could see you now experience sidewall cracks.
Hi Jared:
Always appreciate your videos
A few vids back I notice several dehumidifiers
We have a 36’ Super C
Are there any small units you would recommend?
Maybe a couple small ones
Appreciate your input.
The RV industry uses self drilling screws and lag bolts as they are "quick" to install. The camper/RV flexes and there are so many structural places where "bolts and locking nuts" would be a far better choice. The cab top/bunk bottom connection on my Coachman was made with self drilling screws and they backed out and allowed a leak - this is a common problem. I am currently repairing the area and using bolts/locking nuts and threadlocker!
The screws that come up from below are not designed to be structural. They are simply there to hold the wall in place during assembly such as installing the lag bolts. But they are a good indicator of excessive movement.
I feel bad for you! The value on your fifth wheel was just flushed down into the black tank!
Nope. His improvements made it better. I’d buy anything Jared had his hands on.
The problem with the plumbing is not the use of flexible tubing but rather using pex connectors on flexible tubing which will cause a leak. The correct connectors need to be used with flexible tubing. See Rigor RV repair TH-cam video on this subject. Many RV manufacturers are doing this.
I hear you but that flexible tubing shouldn’t be used in RVs. It should be all Pex and the flexible part is be supply lines. I did see Rigor RV video on plumbing and what he holds up, to show what they should use, is a supply line.
This is the way it should be. th-cam.com/video/tEgzK0NNJDE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=b9ck9_SSBUj6e7gL
@@AllAboutRVs Why do I find it disturbing to see something like what you have which cost alot of money have OSB in the construction instead of plywood?
My friend had 2 Fuzion 5th wheel toy haulers that had front stress fractures
This is nuts! Glad you were able to find and repair this issue. Grand Design was on our short list for a retirement RV. They are no longer on our list. But, if not Grand Design, then what. The majority of rigs we have considered use Lippert frames. Just looking at the fit and finish. If they are this sloppy with things you can see. What other things, much worse is hiding under the skins?
All brands will have problems, GD is no exception but they do stand behind their product and are open about it. Can't say the same for some of the others that also have these issues.
Look at Arctic Foxes by Northwood. Built like tanks. True four season. Northwood makes their own frames. We have an AF fifth wheel. Not one problem in seven years.
Could you please share with us what brand and type of caulking you used when putting the trim and panels back on. Thanks
I also have a Reflection 28BH… I’ve had to retighten those lag screws on the passenger side too many time already. I’m afraid that I may have the same problem. Ugh
Mine is Forest River but my sidewall had issues as well. I had a repair shop do the work. Sidewall/frame still moves so not sure what to do. I wasn't there to inspect all the work as the repair shop did it. I know they replaced lag screws and installed larger screws/lag but not sure if they added extra.
What size drill bit did you use in your 1st video to drill the pilot holes when you upgraded to 1/2 inch lags in the upper deck bedroom. My GD only has 2 lags too. Did you use zinc or stainless? Main question is pilot hole drill bit size. Thanks so much! Awesome vids and very informative.
Jared- l love your statement “We need balance”. Absolutely true. A PIECE OF MOLDING!
Why are most channels focusing on nothing but the negative.
I agree this is a good first step. Unfortunately, I think people like you (and me) can make repairs and make changes that IMPROVE the original build.
I love RV’ing and will continue to work out the bugs or make repairs and upgrades to keep my rig on the road.
Thank you again.
I have a 2004 Holiday Rambler Alumascape 33 foot 5th Wheel, that doesn't have such FU problems!
GD: “Hey Bob we need you to install these 10 lag bolts”
Bob: “I think 2 is just fine”
GD: 😳
I think your last rv was a KZ, if so that was what I had. It was a good design and had a thicker frame and axle to frame connections. ❤. Voltage is built with thinner frame and thus frame flex 🤔😳😖 I remember the frame thickness is 1/2 thinner and lacking and cross members are not there !!!! My Voltage without toys req much Less welding. Rv is short for “repair vehicle”. 🤨 My new one is repaired by me and the welding shop and doing much better, but is a “ RV”! Yes i carry a welder !!!!
The separation of the facade from the frame , is because the frame is too light and not strong and ridged enough and moves with the uneven road surfaces . I even heard Lippert say the Fiberglass wall facade was a structural part of the pin box . It seems they have no regard for their customers intelligence .Well the word is getting around and their game is up.
For those who want to save their 5th wheels at their own cost . The main bottom I beams seems sufficient . So from that main floor structure to the pin box could be literally copied by a welding shop out of a Chrome Molly steel of the same dimensions and then a shop could then remove the old garbage that broke and install it under the bed room and reattach the facade . From what I saw the front box beams from the bottom I beam to the upper frame is a weak spot then the entire front bedroom framework is trash . One could put all new strong Chrome Molly steel there and never have to worry again. The only problem I see is supporting the bedroom area while work was done . But in Lipperts words the Facade is structural unless I misunderstood. Your unit could be saved .
Jared how did you notice the right-side wall was loose? Did you have broken trim of cabinets etc.?
Great video - I'm going to use it on my Reflection 295. I am curious - Did you contact Grand Design just to you have it documented with a case number?
Here here, to you and your good information. I agree that design and build quality are down.