Gun Gripes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
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In this video, we break down the difference between pump and semi-auto shotguns and lay the groundwork as to which is a better platform for delivering massive payloads of 12 gauge on target.
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Fun fact. Here in austria, semi auto shotguns are allowed to own, and pumpaction shotguns are completely banned. One of the stupidest laws i know.
Must've watched too much terminator with Arnold lol
That is insane sounds liberal lol
Ridiculous law, I expect they'll introduce that here in the UK too
What other guns are you allowed to own?
@@watch7966pellet and bb 😂
I think it’s important to note that if you plan on home defense with a semi, you really should take it out to a range or safe place and know exactly what loads will, and will not, cycle it. (Speaking to light loads, mixed loads in your magazine, etc). If it’s a bottom-feeder, it’s good to know which magazines you can and cannot depend on. A homeowner should never *ever* have a new, untested, unfired weapon for home defense! I don’t want to write a novel but you must get out there and run that shotgun.
That is so true!! I recently got a bullpup and have been going thru different ammo. I learned anything under 1300 velocity will not cycle! The turkish guns all need hot ammo to run them. So far I've found Winchester super x, Remington sluggers, and federal power Shok work perfect with no hangups. But federal law enforcement and Winchester OB won't even chamber and I haven't figured out why. Also,, with the new 9 round mag it won't accept 9 rounds! With a full 9 it won't even lock into the magwellnis at all. I have to take out a shell and make it 8, and even then the best way to chamber it is to have the bolt open and then put the mag in. That's crazy! Ive only run 45 rounds they 5his gun so far so I have a ways to go. But your advice is so true. We won't know what the gun will accept I less we fiddle with it lol
True. That said, I modified my 1979 Remington 1100 12 Gauge "Trap" model to have 9 total rounds in the tube, so 10 rounds total with 1 in the chamber. Unfortunately, I've found that leaving the gun with a loaded magazine tube is a problem. The spring pressure seems to slowly deform the brass cartridge rims over time. This causes the shells to get stuck in the tube. The Remington 1100 12 Gauge, especially the older models, are great bird hunting guns, skeet guns, trap guns, and sporting clays guns in all those activities, the user is typically loading new shells before every shoot. If you leave your Remington 1100 12 Gauge loaded for home defense (who would keep a defense shotgun unloaded?) you may run into problems loading from the mag tube. That's just my 2 cents.
FACTS!!!
even a pump needs to be tested and patterned. I found my various pumps performed differently with 1 3/4 mini shells for example. Some of them jammed, some worked OK.
So essentially, if I want to make things less complicated, I'll go with a pump. While it's still always important to train with any firearm intended for self-defence use, in the case of a pump all I have to worry about is learning the operation of the gun itself. If I'm accustomed to using it, I know that any ammo of the correct caliber will work just fine.
I happen to have a pump, so I just want confirmation that I don't suck lol
To quote Clint Smith; “Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of shit from your opponent and throw that shit onto the floor.”
I shot a white tail with a Remington pump at 35 yards. One side had thumb hole sized entry wound and a completely blown out shoulder on the other. It dropped him like a bag of potatoes.
Love me some Clint Smith. 🤣🤣
@@HarrisonCountyStudio Killed my first deer about 7? yds away. She still ran about 30 yards, but the 12 gauge slug was found flat when we dressed her out. Shotgun is one of the best tools to have in the toolbox.
@@mikewithers299 Clint Smith, and his Clintisms are the BEST! That man is an inspiration
.50cal,, no matter the range, or where you hit them... body parts or body flies... if still alive, he would take his pistol to himself to end his suffering
A cop buddy of mine has been around large crowds of people that are about to get unruly. The guys with AR’s show up and nothing changed. The shotguns come out and the body language of everybody around changes. The shotgun generates FEAR because everybody knows it represents one shot destruction.
Its because the crowd knows they wont shoot them with an ar15 with live ammo but they will blast them with less lethal from the 12g. Its because they know the less lethal is coming not the shotgun 😆😆😆
@@DarthdoodooSame with 40mm launchers
ARs are to lasers as Shotguns are to cannons. I see why.
When in a life and death encounter you shouldn't be worrying about recoil. It doesn't matter how much you feel on the shoulder, you're getting the good end of the gun.
You have a point, but you still need to be able to control the gun effectively lol
@@2KCamaroZ28SS as the great Clint Smith once said:
"PISTOLS PUT HOLES IN PEOPLE. RIFLES PUT HOLES THROUGH PEOPLE. SHOTGUNS, AT THE RIGHT RANGE WITH THE RIGHT LOAD, WILL PHYSICALLY REMOVE A CHUNK OF SHIT FROM YOUR OPPONENT, AND THROW THAT SHIT ON THE FLOOR!!!!"
If you only have one person stomping in your door, sure. With more than one or one who needs a second dose, recovery time, which is made up of recoil and manipulation, starts to be an issue.
I call gun recoil "The Posey Principle".
Remember Posey from "The Dirty Dozen"? He didn't like to get pushed!
And he went ballistic!
The same for some people and gun recoil!
😁
Still have to practice with them. But I find recoil isn't bad on more quality guns like the nova, 870, 500 etc
Glad to see the Erik and Chad team together again!
Only missing Dale Jr
They compliment each other's knowledge base and personality almost perfectly. They're each capable of a split second cringe slap in mannerism reaction towards one another, or the topic. When one or the other is being impatient or obtuse for whatever reason, it's quite comical. We're all human and have off day's, it's funny when I pick up on their individual "stfu my turn to talk", body language or expressions. They can fire off at each other with enough couth most don't see it, but the trained eye can catch it between camera frames🤣.
@Master General lol the big mouth knows all
Same
@Master General Kanye was right.
Price and availability seems to be the main factor on a lot of things these days...love both styles
💯 send him to Chyna
I grew up using a pump, and I used a pump as a duty weapon for several years. Today I use a Beretta 1301 tactical. My recommendation to anyone starting out is to save up and get either the Beretta 1301 or Benelli M4. Then practice, practice, practice.
If you're already good with a pump, and you prefer a pump, stick with the pump.
PS - If you're going to use it for self-defense, buy a QUALITY firearm. No clones or budget imports. Get the real deal, from major, well-known, proven manufacturers.
Cheap shotgun will get you killed.
Ya, I agree!.... It all comes down to how much you value your self, your loved ones, and your property....
It all that worth $1,500 for a quality piece like a Benelli that won't brake or jam when you need it most, or are those things only worth a $170.00 Hatfield from Walmart that is better used as a club?...
I agree, never depend on those cheap Turkish shotguns, TFBYV has proven how terrible they are. If going going newer production, Mossberg is hard to beat. If going older, Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, and Ithaca are all great shotguns that are reliable but cheaper than many semi autos.
Cheap shotgun won’t get you killed. Look at torture test videos for maverick 88 and Mossberg 500. There’s nothing wrong with the $250-500 shotguns. Just don’t cheap out on shitty brands. Stick with who has good reputation and backs their products.
@@JT15C Mossberg is awesome and cheap......most are just cheap.
I’ve got ‘em all! A 1974 Ithaca single shot that my dad bought me for my 13th birthday, a Keltec KS7 pump that I run mini shells in giving it a 12+1 capacity, and an IWI Tavor TS12 semi with one tube of slugs, one tube with double-ought buckshot, and one tube with magnum number 5 turkey shot, giving me options for any predicament I may run into. 😛
I've been running my Remington 1100 since I was about 14 years old, shooting competition skeet and trap . 57 now I still have it I've used it from competition to hunting and has never failed me absolutely love that shotgun.
I started dove hunting with the 1100 LT 20 gauge. I still have it to this day. I put one scratch in the clear coat on the butt stock crossing a barb wire fence when I was 15. I felt like I was going to throw up I felt so bad. If you didnt know where the scratch was, you would never see it. My father gave me that gun. I will never part with it.
I'm so glad to read that you two are so happy with your Model 1100's... I've been owning one, for roughly 14 (¿or 16?) years; and have been in poor health, for the most part, and had read some "disturbing" reports of "jamming problems" with the Model 1100's; but, feel much better about my purchase, since "hearing from" you guys!!!
The only problem I have had is the o ring on the tube.
Mine failed me. Pheasant hunting and it went to poop. Finished the successful hunt but something was off. Even my gunsmith tore it down and changed all the rings and the usual stuff and it still wouldn’t go into battery.
Sold it for parts soon after
I still have my father’s 1100 in 20, which we used for dove and quail. I have a couple of 12s now, an Ithaca and a Benelli. Still like the 1100, but it is not designed for high round counts. As others have said, you have to change the O rings. You also have to keep the gas system clean.
I purchased a High Standard Riot pump shotgun and a classic Remington 870 with 18.5 in barrel today. Can’t go wrong with shotguns that go bang every time. 🤠👍🏻
Team single shot break action here!
Gave up on the Flint-lock double black powder?
Topper 88 for shtf ftw!!!!!!
@@hunterknudtson5213 hell yeah! I actually run a New England Firearms (H&R) Pardner 12ga w/ a iron sighted Topper 162 barrel for my public land cannon. Best $200 I ever spent!
@@mikepraed4623 hell no! Still running that too 🤣
I love this topic! If anything it will lead to an excuse to buy another gun!😄
I'd love to get a Mossberg 940 or Beretta 1301 but budget limits me to the pump gun for now. Not one of my firearms cost more than $800 out of the box and the two semiautomatic shotguns I mentioned are in the $1000-$1500 range IIRC. For now, my Mossberg 590A1 is my home defense shotgun and I feel just fine with that.
The 590a1 is a fantastic choice! Id feel just as armed with one as my benelli m4.
590a1 is a solid choice! there is an attachment i use that replaces the trigger assembly pin that grants a single QD mount point for single point sling that works amazingly
@dr. breen's beard Interesting. I had no idea such an option was available. On mine, I got Magpul furniture and barrel clamp. Added the QD cups to the stock, though I think it's a tad ridiculous they don't come attached. The barrel clamp has a QD on one side and a loop on the other to clip a sling to. While I love my Magpul furniture, your solution seems like a good alternative as well.
@@nateh2652 had one and it was a dud right out of the box. Needless to say I don't own it anymore
590a1 that is
Having both a pump and semi... the finicky nature of my semi, has over the years (and with some of the shortages we recently experienced)... made me switch to primarily my Moss 500 pump. So much so that I have all but stopped using my semi. Now I'm sure some of it is the fact that my semi auto is not a high end Binelli, but the fact that I can have whatever I want in my pump is such a wonderful option.
Having said the above... I'd rather run towards the shitstorm with my Galil 308 (pistol version) vs any shotgun. Because if someone is 10 feet away or 300.. that's all I would need. So... The under the bed "bump in the night" safe has my Moss500, Galil, and my PX4 Storm.
What is a Binelli?
Love them both. Can't short-stroke an auto. I've had failures in both systems while hunting waterfowl and upland game, some were me and some were just things wearing out or breaking. I've used them as paddles, ice breakers and awkward clubs, they work. You get a bunch of versatility for a single gun at a price nearly anyone can afford. If I had only one gun it'd be a tube fed12 ga pump, a long hunting barrel, a short combat barrel, and a variety of ammo and chokes. Got no problem with autos either, but for the money the standard pump is king.
I love both, but I'll say this. If you'll only own one, make it a pump. You can feed a pump anything. More reliable. Less to go wrong. If you own both, the semi will be your "go-to" and the pump as your back up.
Depends on what youre using. My Benelli M4 runs everything, even 7.5 low brass clay loads. So anything hotter is a non issue, like high brass bird loads, buck, or slugs.
But if its a cheap semi, id agree
But there is literally more things that can go wrong. The chances of a proper semi-auto (Benelli M4 for example) malfunctioning with self-defense loads are much smaller than a person short stroking or causing a malfunction with their manual operation.
@@nateh2652 I had a Saiga clone and it wouldn't eat anything less than hot. You can forget about low recoil rounds. Never had a Benelli. I was always a Winchester guy. Thanks for your input. You're right.
@@MrRandomTwat You have a valid point. User error is always a factor. If you check the other comments, I told Nate that if you use "low recoil" or such in a semi, you're asking for trouble or (in the M4's case) at least rolling the dice. Most SA shotguns are picky about their ammo.
If you have only one and don't practice weekly, get a semi. I have had that oh-shit just hunting dove, if it was a spooky shooting back....
I like the pumps. You get the most "bang for the buck" (I'm a cheap skate), you get rock solid reliability, and I actually like the inherently slower fire rate intrinsic to the operation of pumps. I'm sure it isn't something that can't be rectified with training- but in the heat of the moment it is very hard to slow down and not blow thru your limited ammo very very quickly. When you are "pumping" in between each shot, you (or at least me) really slow down and make every shell count. Another thing to note, despite my best effort, I live under a tyrannical local and state government. I don't have the option to have an AR15 or high capacity magazines. I fear owning semi-autos are next to be infringed upon. I even heard some BS about ALL shotguns being considered unlawful because they can accept "mini-slugs" increasing their capacity above 10 rounds. Fuckn' insane radical left-wing nut jobs!
Love the way you delivered your comment, you would make a good shooting buddy !
Pretty sure you can get an AR in every state. Just with smaller mags or other weirdness.
@@scottashe984 CT has an "Assault weapons ban" after the Newtown school shooting. Sure, you can get one of those "featureless" ARs with a 10 shot magazine but at that point there are better options.
Semi autos are my line in the sand. Nope they can't have them.
(THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE)
I live in CT, normal non-pooped AR rifles are illegal (idk about a fixed mag, ten round max), but you can get a 'CT Other" an other isnt legally a rifle or pistol or etc, its its own being, they're kinda like a legal SBR that you need to have a few things normally like pistol brace and a vertical grip to fit in the "loophole" and you don't need a fixed magazine. Its weird how it works, you can get otherized AKs and more too. Not the legal definition but the normal person definition, I actually wonder if CT has the highist SBR owner rate, because we are forced to have "others".
I bought a Mossberg 500 about two or three years ago and that was the end of that debate.
Whenever im in the market for a particular gun, it seems like you guys always come out with a video in just the nic of time for me to get a little more knowledge on the topic. Thanks guys!!
Nothing beats the sound of racking the slide on the 12 ga. pump.
It's a GREAT way to give away your position.👍
@@dr.burtgummerfan439 if you're using it in self defense they already know you are there. At least let them know you are armed at the same.rime because they aren't afraid of you to begin with and will find you no matter what you think
Don't think a sound will scare them away. It might get you killed
I just realized that that "eye dart room assessment" was one of Bruce Willis' signature moves. I remember him doing it in first three die-hard films, He's doing it almost every scene he's in in Pulp Fiction, He even did in 6th sense a couple of times.....like every actor has their thing they do to look more "real" for the camera - whether it's always pushing their glasses up or Tom Cruise's forehead down and forward stare, or Marlon Brando's side eye he would give people, John Wayne would light a cigarette - take one puff from it - then toss it away to his side and backward......Bruce willis would dart his eyes from one side of the room to the other then back to the first in so many scenes.
I see that every single time you boys shoot 12ga you’re grinning like school kids. Loads of fun there!!
My home defense is my 1897 trench gun. Semi autos might be fast but slam fire is faster 😂 got the M1917 bayonet as backup lol
Definitely don’t wanna be faced with that!
I'm a pump shotgun kinda guy. I've had many semi autos, most had the gas piston feature that needed to be switched light to heavy and that was just a turn off to me. Mossberg 590 and Remington 870 has always been my go to and never had an issue. With pump actions, it's just a learning curve to cycle the action properly every time. I do agree though, a shotgun is probably the most difficult platform to master just because of the reloading, but like with any firearm, training, training, training!
I like the beretta 1301 tactical and with the blink action it is a fast cycling semi automatic. I only run full power shells so no cycling issues. Also the 1301 tactical is light recoiling and overall light weight shotgun in my opinion.
The 1301 will be my next semi auto.
I want a 1301 badly. All I have right now is a Browning A5 from 1933, which is a fantastic shotgun in its own right. Damned good for skeet, trap, etc but not optimal for defense. I’ve got shoulder issues so a light recoiling but also light shotgun is a definite for me.
Beretta semi auto shot guns are in a class of they’re own I’ve owned 2 AL390s and one 1301 tactical, never had one jam out of the 1000s of rounds I’ve ran though them and one of the best pointing shot guns I’ve used, the recoil control on my AL390 with a turkey choke muzzle brake is ridiculous it makes 3” tungsten loads feel like 2 3/4 low brass target loads
Nothing says you'll never be wounded in an encounter. For that reason and one other, multiple perps I choose semi auto over pump action. You get a faster rate of fire as well as less action required on the end user. This is especially important if you get wounded on your actuating arm. As far as reliability goes I've never ever had a semi auto fail to eject or feed. Maintain you guns. Remington model 1100.
Thats where the terminator reload style comes in handy 😂. It works tho lol
@stan d. upnow are you referring to fully semi 30 auto caliber fire?
@stan d. upnow those are typically referred to as semi auto. A pistol is tertiary in order of lethality. With a rifle and a shotgun being mixed depending on situation, proximity, environment, range, & number of targets. Typically a rifle round is preferred in most if not all situations as you can customize said rifle in a manner to be effective at both CQB and medium range. Anyone worth their salt knows that a pistol is either the last line before hand to hand or is a means of defense in getting to a rifle/shotgun.
@stan d. upnow now that I told you, you know also, you were using incorrect terminology in your first post.
@stan d. upnow so you're deflecting, berating me because I was right? Interesting...what is a HUTA politician? Is this a reference to a city in Poland perhaps?
I had an 80s production Mossberg 500 on defense standby for years. Shot it a lot, totally reliable, really like the flush fit elevator that makes loading the tube easy. It recently got replaced by a Turkish made Benelli M4 clone (Charles Daly 601 DPS) only after I ran 1500+ rounds out of it. I originally got it just for fun, but it has genuinely impressed me and is still holding up well to high round counts. I'm in no hurry to get rid of my old Mossberg though!
I wouldn't either. They are reliable
You must have bought a good one, many of those Turkish shotguns have issues. I know James from TFBYV has multiple shotgun burn downs and all failed except for the maverick 88.
I love the 590, but that 940 looks super cool. A couple of my buddies have 1301's, they are cool also.
Be honest you don’t really know anyone with a 1301. You just think they are good because the inter web said so
@@googlechicken I didn't say I wanted one also. Butt they are faster than my 590. Nor did I say that my buddies were cool, they kind of are dorks.
Finally got my first shotgun at 30. And I went for the simple Maverick 88 security model. Just had to swap the pistol grip for a proper stock.
It's a very simple and easy to learn to shoot on.
I still love my 88 and it will be the first to the fight. Mini shell adapter stays in to give me 11 shots if needed.
Excellent 👌, I prefer the 20 gauge mav 88 ! Good shooting to you!
@@jasoncastle4818 you are in good company there. Massad ayoob also recommended the 20ga for many years. Not sure if it is still his recommendation but his prior stamp on it makes me feel secure with them if need be.
Maverick 88 security pump 7+1 20". Bought 2 months ago from Sportsman's Warehouse Ankeny, Iowa for $254 out the door. Had to order it and wait 2 months. Amazing quality for the money.
Now buy a 2nd one. 1 front door. 1 bedroom
I used to be hardcore about pumps, but modern semi autos like the 930 JM Pro runs so flawlessly with everything from Walmart birdshot up to high power bear slugs. I think I've put 400 rounds through that shotgun have had zero issues with it .
Pump shotguns will always have a special place in my heart but I know which one I'm grabbing if I need it.
And yes the fifth elements one of the best movies ever 😂
Birdshot is actually high powered. Does it cycle low powered target loads and defense loads?
I love the ergonomics of your gun, when I handled one at a gun shop.
@@rudrashakti108 yes all defence loads.
Low power never runs in autos you have to hand cycle things like less than lethals.
@@Galamoth66 I ask because the Winchester defender loads are low velocity. They wouldn’t cycle through the kusa AK auto shotgun I used to own.
@@rudrashakti108 yeah im not sure about those
@@Galamoth66 I wish there were more convertible shotguns like my SPAS-12 or the Benelli M3 for that reason. Run semi-auto most of the time with loads I know will work, but if I’m stuck with lower powered loads, I can make do with pump mode.
It's been my observation, that the Old "Browning Auto 5" is an EXTREMELY RELIABLE semi auto shotgun!
Mine hasn’t failed me yet!
But it is a pain to clean.
@@Nickrioblanco1 that…. I can completely agree with, lol🤦♂️
@@Nickrioblanco1 full tear down, clean, reassemble took me at least 1:15
Honestly i have no real gun knowledge maybe a little above average. But i would go with a pump, simply for the fact that i know that Sound and im assuming most criminals do as well.
Love my Tavor 12 and 930 JM Pro! A
Glad to see the guys back together!
An important part to consider id what are you willing to loose if you have to use it for self defense. It’s sad but even if it’s a good shoot it’s always hard to get your stuff back so maybe better to use what you’re willing to loose instead of your holy grail
That's a good reason not to use your 24K plated, engraved, antique firearm to defend yourself, but a good quality self-defense gun is a must.
@@Stevarooni 100% a must. It’s just the only reason id be more likely to grab the supernova instead of my m4.
That’s why I love shadow systems. If you lose your firearm in a good shoot they will replace it at no cost. Great company.
As far as favorites, and the assessment like you mentioned in the 5th Element, the pump delay compared to the semi auto you do get that moment of reassessment before the next shot is what came to mind, especially in a home defense situation. THe fact, and sound of a 12 gauge going off even for a single shot is enough to make any criminal rethink their intrusion I believe. Great show Guys! LuvYa! Keep it up.
@lraqvertran8888 Hey! There you are! Okay great. Thanks for all your insight, and education. Can’t wait!
Mossberg has some of the (if not THE) best customer service in the firearms industry in my opinion. They have always taken excellent care of me.
I love both. And own both but my go to is the ‘Maverick 88 for hone defense.
Semi for clay bird / and range day fun
I have heard that the Alaska Game and Fish Wildlife officers only use pump shotguns loaded with Brenneke slugs (for bear attacks). The semi auto action would malfunction with the low outdoor temperatures.
That makes sense, since gas pressure is highly affected by temperature. I have a master's in mechanical engineering, so it makes sense to me. With an inertia semi-auto shotgun, I suspect it would be less of an issue.
@@DDDYLN yes and no. Initeria might work better in extreme cold than gas piston, but that’s not the only way cold can have an effect. Believe it or not some gun lubes get viscous or even freeze and could be considered insufficient for cold temps and can lock up firearms. This could arguably affect a pump guns a little less.
@@evanf1443 well, I've given up on my semi-auto 1979 Remington 1100 12 gauge. It just doesn't suit my purposes anymore. It's a bird hunting, sporting clays, trap, and skeet gun. For physical reasons, I no longer do any of those things, and I haven't got over a decade. I'm going to sell it, and buy a Standard Manufacturing DP-12. It has a 14+2 capacity. That said, something I've learned recently with high capacity shotguns, is that you can't trust them if you leave the feed tubes fully loaded. When my Remington 1100 was just 2+1 with the factory limited, it always ran fine, assuming the o-ring area was clean. I put an extension on it for a home defense guns, which was a massively dumb idea. After it sat in my gun cabinet fully loaded for months, the spring wouldn't feed the last round. I was reading that the police figured out how to remedy this. They typically carry a shotgun up front. They don't load the last round in the tube, so the spring doesn't wear out. If they have to use the shotgun, they put another round in if they have time. So, when I get my DP-12, it'll really be 12+2. That's still a lot of 12 gauge buckshot!
@@evanf1443 I hear you on the gun lube. There are so many different products out there, with tons of misinformation. I use a good CLP, combined with Rem-oil in the slides of my pistols. I live in VA, though, so it never really gets too cold.
@@DDDYLN sorry to hear you’ve had to give up those hobbies, I’m still fairly new to shotguns personally but I like the idea of their versatility and so I’m hoping to increase my familiarity with them moving forward. That’s interesting regarding leaving it loaded, the general consensus is that it’s use that wears springs out, not compression. I wonder if it’s got anything to do with deformation of the shells over time under the increased tension. As for lube I’ve taken to using shooter’s choice FP-10 CLP, reportedly Canadian police tested it specifically for functionality in sub zero weather. I haven’t taken it out hunting yet cause I haven’t had the opportunity to go the last few years but it’s worked reasonably well in my pistols so far.
Haven't watched you fellows in a while. I'm seeing age growing, hence, experience. I like this format of your conversation. I will look forward to seeing you guys shoot something again. Best wishes.
I always figured pumps were more reliable also until I started sporting clays. Sometimes guys would show up for a local tournament with their Remington, Winchester or Mossberg pump. These guys were usually pretty good shots but at some point, their pumps jammed. Maybe they were excited, but they jammed. My friend's Remington 1100 and my Benelli M1 never jammed as long as they were relatively clean.
I've never had that problem with my Mossberg 500.
Seems like it may be an operator error.
@@MrGunBunny13 I think it was excitement. It was their first tournament. And when their guns went off, they were hits.
Short stroking can do it.
@@randyc5650 Could be that they somehow short-stroked.
I've always found the Mossberg 500 to be a very reliable and robust shotgun.
Mine is an 18.5" barrel with no choke and it worked fabulously for skeet.
I'd like to have a more traditional side-by-side, but I'm just too broke for it.
@@MrGunBunny13 I'm sure you are right because these guys were better shots than I am.
I like the 940 Mossberg JM Pro semi auto. They have lightning fast follow ups. Designed to quad load and hold 9 plus 1 for $1,000.
Very cool rig....just perfect.
I have a 930 spx love it
Good view on shot guns guys. Keep the information coming guys. See you on the next video.
I worked for a large western Sheriffs department for 28 years, and an Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge rode with me the entire time. When our department switched over to the 870, they sold the remaining Ithacas to us deputies. I got a beautiful 8-shot DSPS with rifle sights and gorgeous walnut stock. I trust it with my life.
I’ve got all the stuff “hanging” on my IWI TS12. Flashlight, 2 point sling, Fab Defense irons and a Holosun HS510C. Adjustable gas block let’s me run just about anything except mini’s. 15+1 and she’s fast
I love all shotguns, but single shots have a soft spot in my heart
No they dont
Yep. And coach side by side too.
And a sore spot on the shoulder? 😁🤣🤣 j/k
@@Araretoy Ha! Quite the sore spot XD
For home defense I like a double barrel too nice and short.
Eric's dropping those lbs!! Good job brother!!
I'm a big fan of the shotgun myself for the close in combat firearm. It's great at turning the action back to gaining the initiative. There's a video just in the last few months of a robber who came into a convenience store with his AR at the ready and the store owner an older man, was able to stop that ambush in its tracks, bring accurate fire on the aggressor and send him running and screaming. That's 'no shit' real world effects. Can't get that in a pistol and unless you're trained very well, can't readily get that in a carbine rifle. The shotgun is for me, case closed.
I saw that video the guy with ar15 thought the store was an easy target but once he found out about the shorty he left running and screaming
I love my Rock Island Armory VR-80. It came with two 5 round magaxines, I bought four 9 round magazines , then a 20 round drum.
Just bought my first shotgun a couple months ago. I didnt want or need anything fancy since Im just gonna drag it through the woods on drives so I figured I should buy used to save a couple bucks. I had a choice between an 870 or an 1100. Ended up scooping the 870 cause it was lighter, felt better in my hands and it just fit me better (it points well for me). Ive been happy with the purchase so far but we’ll see how she fares next week for buck week here in NJ.
I got both and love both
Should work well for you. Had a 870 Wingmaster with a smooth bore slug barrel. Never failed. Used slug or 00 buck for deer in NJ, switched out to #6 bird shit for grouse in Maine. I felt confident to it use for self defense if the situation ever came up. Since have a 870 Express with same type barrel. Changed out the MIM extractor, carrier dog spring and plastic follower. Feel the same about that gun.
2 points to make ... I had the Weatherby Turkey 12ga for home defense, and sold it right away. Had two pistons with it for different weight shells, and all I can say, that was the most un reliable weapon I had ever owned. And any shotgun that tells you to run a minimum of 100 rounds through it before you can expect it to work correctly, is not one you should own in my opinion. Now I have a Mossberg 930, I use #4 shot for home defense. I think its strong enough to get the job done promptly without having 00 going through the walls to the cars or neighbors house. And yes, I don't want holes in my cars lol Great Video
You do mean #4 buck, right? If its bird, it wont penetrate to an effective depth to be reliably lethal and incapacitating
@@nateh2652 Actually its Kent Ultimate Fast Lead #4 Diamond Shot, 2 3/4" shell, 1475 FPS. That is just what I am using as my Home Defense load. I wanted to find a happy medium between getting the job done, and shots going through walls. Also, you have to think about your house layout. Inside my 2800 sq ft house, I think a max range shot if needed to be 25 to 30 feet tops. So this is what I chose.
Beretta 1302 is an ABSOLUTELY AWESOME SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN. My absolute favorite.
I run *such* a variety of ammunition through my shotguns that I use only pump actions. I notice that autoloaders don't reliably function with "specialty" ammunition, like flares, bear bangers, light loads, short cases, etc. I *DO* like auto shotguns in a recreational role, however. They are a lot of fun to shoot. Thanks for the video, guys! And Merry Christmas!
The H&K Benelli Super Black Eagle is a GREAT goose gun, but has some trouble with some of the lighter loads used in sporting clays. I ended up having to go back to my pump gun because the supplied ammo wouldn't run the action in the SBE.
I love my 1960's semiauto Ithaca 12 gauge that grandad gave me for my 13th birthday (in '94) but for reliability I've always been told that a pump action is the way to go, the reliability difference between a auto and a pump is the same as a semiauto pistol and a revolver, if something goes wrong you can manually cycle it to the next round
You've obviously never come across a locked up revolver...
Actually I haven't, but now that you mention it I have heard of it
@@rogeradams9874 when they lock up all you have is a paperweight, usually can't even get the cylinder open to unload them. My ruger sp101 did it 2 rounds into the cylinder, all because of a kink in a 10 cent spring... LoL
Both. All. Every single one of them.
Much Love & Respect --- Directly from the rolling hills and fertile farmlands of Pennsylvania!! :)
Domari Nolo
PA III
I had an Ithica model 51 magnum Featherlite 2 3/4 or 3", that thing was a beast. I should've never sold it.
The question is for me what are the distances involved. A slug gives you a big advantage in typical gun fight scenarios and 00 buck will also get the bad guys attention. PROPER TRAINING is the most important thing with any fire arm and I’m partial to the .45 acp because it typically stops the threat and I’m partial to the semi auto IF ITS A GOOD ONE as you can hurl out a lot of lead in a short time.
I looked at the M3 and M4 before deciding to go with a pump action. I am getting older and don't get around as well as I used to. I have adult daughters who live with me. They have never fired a shotgun so I purchased a Mossberg 590 in .410 bore for them to learn on. I will be adding a 590A1 in 12 guage later and looking for the right loads for our situation
Pistol with a light on it for home defense. Also having kids in the house it’s not as easy to keep the 12 ga hidden as the pistol. Just mount a gun magnet on
your nightstand for your pistol when your in your room when it’s transferred from the safe nightly.
Transfered "from" a safe? So then during a home invasion you're going to hope you can make it to your safe in time and hopefully your children won't be potential hostages?
@@Manco65 it stays in the safe while not home, so it can’t be stolen. Then it’s brought out the safe once I’m ready to be in my bedroom. But I conceal carry till then lol
Me and the Mrs have a deadbolt on our bedroom door. It stays locked when we're at work. The good thing about a long gun vs pistol, in regards to little ones, is that a long gun is too long to point at yourself, unless you're pulling the trigger with your toe. I've seen some night stands that are lockable as well. ;)
We don't "hide" self defense firearms--we keep them "at hand" at all times. Having to go to your bedroom and dig through the closet for a firearm is the same as not being armed. If you have to take more than a few steps to access the weapon--you are unarmed. Always be armed.
@@robertwatson818 ditto. Our entire family knows where, and how to use self defense weapons in the home. It’s a way of life
Team pump as I've been shooting since my teens. 40 years of Remington 870 I can cycle them faster than most semi-autos. Although I have several semi's and love them too.
No you can’t.
My 930 jm pro has ran the cheap Walmart Winchester/federal since it came out of the box. Only issue I’ve had is the follower binding when it bottoms out, switched to an aluminum follower and it shreds
I read that the 940 is what the 930 should have been. The 940 has fixes for 930 issues. I also read all the 930 issues can be fixed with aftermarket parts. That sounds like what you did.
@@raykettel1837 Correct, I fitted or3gun parts to my 930 JM Pro, runs very well. The 940 looks nice, I'd buy one if I didn't have my 930.
@@redrock425 I agree with keeping what you've got if it meets your needs rather than getting caught up in thinking one has to have the latest model even when one has the prior version that works just fine.
5' 4" 115lbs and my go to home defense firearm is a Mossberg 590S Shockwave 18.5" with a SOLOFISH SL-1107 Green Laser Sight loaded with Federal Shorty #4 Buck.
I got a high end 308 from my local shop. The owner took it and replaced all the springs and upped the final ptice by almost a grand. Better parts than from the manufacturer. My first gun i bought from him was a Mossberg 930 🤠 its my favorite gun.
I had a Mossberg pump... loved it. Bought a CZ712 22" stuck a Carlson 5rd mag extender, and fiber optic sights, and never looked back. Just sold my Mossy earlier this past spring after 4 years of owning both. My 712 has never failed yet. I use it for everything from sporting clays, hunting, and running and gunning.
I still like a good pump shotgun though.
Been missing Chad, no offense Eric, but nice to have you both back again..good video ❤️🇺🇸👍
5th element rocks. I ended up going with a Benelli Nova tactical, drilled and tapped it for a rail/red dot and installed a vertical foregrip and 4ocloclk rail section/white light on the fore end. With the +2 mag extension it'll hold 8 rounds total of the Hornady critical defense buckshot. I'm also fond of the huge loading port on the Nova series guns, it makes topping up the mag a little easier.
My saiga 12 stock with the mdarms gas plug runs everything flawlessly. My ksg is still the best though!!! That thing is the perfect home gun
Like them both and have both but I lean towards a pump it will eat just about whatever load you put in it low power to full power
This was a great video. I just got a vrbo100 and this was so helpful! Im running bucks but will keep slugs for home defense. But chads argument for buckshot made a lot of sense 3sp3cially with flight control ammo. I have a 500 round break in so I'm buying a lot of different slugs (indoor range, quickshots). I think anything over 1200 velocity I should have no cycling issues...let's hope. I hated I couldn't get it from moss. I was the guy asking about the tokarev lol. You and your bruh are firearm experts!!! I didn't serve in Iraq but if I did I woulda.wanted to be in your group. You take all aspects into play.
I prefer pump for the fact I can run mini shells, low powered shells like rubber buckshot, and any power level of shell. If I use a semi auto shotgun I prefer mag fed.
I like the idea of being able to fire any ammo I could find.Therefore I lean toward a pump.All the shotguns I own are break action! I guess I need to rectify that situation immediately.
@stan d. upnow "Buy a shotgun"
I only have 3 shotguns, I mostly am a rifle and handgun guy, but I have a KSG, a M590 and a Mosberg 930 Tactical with breacher. I only have 12ga 00Buck and slugs.
Never had any issues with a 5 rd saiga mag, have several. My 12 rd drum didn’t run reliably till I took sandpaper to the inside and used graphite. All run reliably. I understand saiga’s can be hit and miss. Mine must have been built on a Wednesday.
My Remington 870 Turkey gun with 3 1/2" mags is the biggest kicking gun I've ever fired! 😬
Great shotgun content guys!! Love the "Fifth Element " references!!
There is a ton of inexpensive tactical shotguns on the market in pump action right now. I’m a believer in what works and fits your personal needs and budget. I think it’s hard to beat a old mossberg 500 or a 870 Remington with a short smooth bore slug barrel. Time tested and proven. In these troubling times more weapons is always better than less.
In my experience the best shotgun is the one the person is the most comfortable and confident in using.
I spent some time in prison, I realized I enjoy the pump shotgun more because it reminds me of my time with Big Dale, my cell mate, and how we helped each other when feeling too randy.
Great vid 👌 guy's. Over here in 🇦🇺 semi auto are banned sorta , pump shotguns are bared as well. So , to you guy's do one on lever and thumb release ones . Just throughing it out there . Keep up the good work. 👍. Springfield m1 a1 and my old fav tank garand
I switched to semi auto after I concluded that I could not work the action under pressure more reliably than my SA does. Plus, less recoil with heavy buckshot loads.
At least one of each, yes please.
Both. It depends what you are using the weapon for.
1. Clays or hunting. 28 inch pump.
2. Government tyranny. Both. The semiauto mag fed is more likely to be banned.
3. Defending a single position with extreme firepower. Semiauto with tons of loaded mags.
4. Doing anything on the move. Pump.
The lightweight comfortable choice is the Mossberg shockwave. Very fun with crimson trace laser saddle.
5. Competition. Semiauto. I'm not a competition guy but the internet seems to suggest people choose semiauto Benelli for this.
6. Shooting fancy loads like flashbangs or dragons breath. Pump.
Just picked up a marine sxp used for $200. It’s fantastic! Couldn’t pass it up
I considered buying a new Marine SXP for $320 - $50 rebate from Bass Pro/ Cabella's last week but decided I really did not need another shotgun as I already have a SX4 with 28" barrel and I just bought a 22" FN barrel for it. I also discovered at the gun store counter that the bump action aggravates an injury from 20-some years ago in my elbow. Just another reason to try out first before buying if one can.
When you pump it, stroke it hard, the whole length. Nothing is more ineffective and ungratifying as a short stroke, unless you have a mini load.
A shotgun is great but I definitely fall into the nothing is better than a rifle category. Range, capacity and stopping power
Or trenches >:)
@@AV-nl9gc zats where ze Gas comes into play
Shotguns loaded with buckshot has far better stopping power than rifles, and practical capacity within effective ranges is similar due to that. I may have 3 to 5 times the ammo in an AR-15 vs. a shotgun, but if it takes me 3 to 5 rounds to guarantee an effective stop while it takes me only 1 shot with a shotgun, it evens out.
Range is the main critical weakness of a shotgun and why it can never be a primary battlefield weapon. But within home defense where I’m guaranteed to be in close quarters, that downside is completely irrelevant.
@@samyheadshot *just war crime season tings*
I started with a used Benelli M1 and later bought a Mossberg 590. I took two-two day shotgun courses with each type. I concluded that the pump was better for me especially with low recoil 00 & slugs.
First time viewer. Fantastic content! Definitely subscribing to the channel!
Why don’t you just go right up and touch it for Christ sake
500 Mosberg is my go-to shotgun !!!
Im absolutely gonna watch the 5th element now, definately in the top 5 movies of all time.👍
Been waiting for this break down for a while. Thanks for the knowledge
Eric, thank you so much for mentioning the FN SLP MK1 auto. It's a beast of a gun, handles with ease & scary fast. I bought mine during the 1st gun craze, kind of pricey but glad I did. I found another, barely used, loaded with Gucci stuff. All for $700, couldn't pass it up. FN is no longer making the SLP so I'm glad I have 2. They should last me until the Good Lord takes me home. As always, Great content. Say hello to Chad, he's a Good Man...
BTW, the FN SLP MK1 and Winchester SX2 share the same receiver so their barrels are cross compatible. FN owns Winchester. I bought a Winchester SX2 a few months ago with 28" barrel for clay but later discovered that the FN SLP MK1 22" smooth cantilever barrel is compatible with my SX4 and only costs $249 so I bought it as it is the shortest smooth bore barrel that is compatible with my SX4. If you wanted a 2nd barrel you could use a SX2, SX3, or SX4 barrel with your FN shotguns.
@@raykettel1837 Thank you for that great info. Are there any other parts that are compatible???
I prefer a mossberg maverick 88, 500, or 590. There great reliable dependable, and affordable, not cheap, but affordable.
Reasons to choose pump.
1. Birdshot. Clays hunting.
2. Flashbangs and dragons breath ect
3. Typically weigh less, so it's more comfortable on the move.
4. They don't sell semiauto shockwaves.
5. You enjoy making that sound.
6. Reliable hip fire is fun.
7. They are very unlikely to be banned.
Reasons to choose semiauto magfed.
1. Capacity. You can keep tons of loaded magazines ready to go. Drum magazines.
2. Faster fire rate.
3. Fast magazine swaps keep you in the fight.
4. Competition.
5. It looks like an assault weapon, and your political opponents don't want you to have one.
What about lever action shotguns? My grandpa had one and it was the first time I ever shot a gun and honestly it was kinda nice.
Cant have pumps or semis here in Australia. But can have lever action, straight pulls and break opens.
These laws are bizarre. Pumps and semi autos in the UK but no pistols or revolvers.
@@redrock425 You can have a semi auto 22 pistol or certain revolvers, but they must be equipped with a 12 inch barrel and a coat hanger looking extension off the grip. It looks as ridiculous as it sounds.
Great video! Nice to see you together on the same video again. I have both, but prefer the pump for home defense.
Remington 870 used to be the stuff, but lately Mossberg has passed them by
I have a Maverick 88 12 gauge pump and it will eat whatever I feed it. $200 bargain for 🏡 protection.
I agree with the assessment comments. You wouldn't want to hit a gas line or electrical line that could lead to a fire. I would say that also ties to your comments about choice of round as well
Never really been a fan of shotguns, but I know a little bit on how to use them.
Chad: “choose neither”
Me: “choose a 9mm! It blows the lungs out of the body!!”