Thoughts on Warlord's Napoleonic Epic Battles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ย. 2021
- My musings on thr new scale of Naps that will soon be on thr mass market and what that means for the Napoleonic hobby going forward!
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I invested in 100s of 25 mm years ago. If I was to start over I would use 15 mm. I like 28 mm models but they are a move in the wrong direction. The smaller scales make it easier to have larger epic battles. Less storage space needed. Terrain is easier to build. I find the painting takes about the same time unless you don`t care about buttons ,eyes and piping. I like this box set.
Great video, enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the release. I really enjoyed the Epic ACW release, and I’m looking forward to getting into this in a big way. I love the Napoleonic period, but the thought of painting it at 28mm for anything more than a game like Sharp Practice scared me. Many moons ago I used 6mm, but over the years I’ve wanted slightly more realistic models, and this gives a neat balance between manageable scale and quality of sculpt.
Totally agree with your comments about frontage, I think they’ve gone with the visuals rather than the benefit that ‘shrinking’ the game to a regular sized gaming table. Id say the majority of the Epic ACW community reduced the number of stands and ignored the booklet recommendations (4 Large, 3 regular, 2 small, 1 Tiny). I like the idea of using 3 for Napoleonics like you suggested, maybe bring on the 4th stand to represent certain formations.
John Stallard was a guest on the Hobby Support Group podcast recently, he mentioned 11 sprues for this release (some more of this covered in the upcoming Wargames Illustrated). We know of six from this first wave, the Highlanders and 95th (Skirmishing) are another, Old Guard, Middle Guard and engineers are another, then two Prussian sprues, one Infantry and one Cav. The 11th is a mystery right now I think. I rambled on about this all a bit in a video I put out this evening, but I’m not trying to pimp that here.
It is Black Powder rules provided in the box, but it sounds like they’ve edited it and removed all the non relevant stuff, which is interesting.
Anyway, keep up the great videos, and sorry for the essay of a comment 😂
I’m really excited for this. I have been waffling for the past few years about jumping into Napoleonics. I even bought the 28mm Waterloo set, but got extremely nervous looking at the mountain of plastic and how many figures need to be painted. But I loooove the idea of the “shoulder to shoulder” weight of the battalions that’s hard to recreate in 28mm. I do wish this was a true starter set instead of separate army boxes, but oh well. Going to get them both! Can’t wait!
Warlord had commented with the ACW line that the scale was dictated by how many models they could fit on their standard sprue size (which is what their machines are limited to) and not by a desire to create a new scale. For what that's worth. They have also said recently that the Naps range will all be plastic aside from character figures with no metal or resin for units. That should keep the costs of all future boxes down from the ACW stuff.
Stallard had an interview a week back on Modeling for Advantage talking about how the resin didn't work out for the small size.
Really ?... They actually said that without smiling?
I believe there has indeed been an interview confirming Prussians, as well as Imperial Guard infantry. I think personally I'll be cutting up the strips to half and basing them on 30x20mm bases with 5 for a unit. This lets you fit a lot more on a small table (as well as saving money, which is always nice), so you really get that epic feeling.
This is the way though I was thinking 4 bases for a standard unit
26:00 - French Dragoons were actually heavily used in the Waterloo campaign.
On June 15th, they played a role in the first action at the Battle of Gilly - namely from Exelmans French Cavalry Corps of Dragoons, and the Imperial Guard Empress Dragoons too.
On June 16th, French dragoons were in action at the battle of Ligny
On June 17th, they were involved in the pursuit of both retreating Allied armies.
On June 18th, at Waterloo, two of Kellermann's eight cavalry regiments (III Corps) that charged Mont St.Jean Hill were Dragoons - same number of regiments as the two carabiniers - also in Kellermann's corps. The Empress Dragoons of the Guard also in heavy action.
- On Grouchy's wing, the Dragoons were engaged in skirmishes along the Dyle river, against the Prussians screening the area, and at the battle of Wavre.
I, too, would have preferred a 'real' starter box with smaller forces for both sides. But it is what it is. Anything that gets more players is a good thing!
it is sort of understandable given that unlike the ACW the kits aren't faction interchangeable and the concept seems more about doing big setpiece battles like Waterloo with a similar number of batallions etc in a small scale for kitchen table play. I guess there isn't much point using epic scale only to use 9 batallions apiece which you could just have for 28mm Black Powder. There's also the option to buy a brigade for you and a friend, which is £50 and basically a starter force.
@@thescarletpumpernel3305 I think the whole point of this epic is to have more of an actual Battalion look. 80 men per regiment with the same footing as the 28mm version with 24 men. It looks more... epic in the sense of grandure. In reality you won't get much benefit from more Regiments. The Regiments just look more believable. If I had start Napoleonics with 28mm I wouldn't bother with these. However I have no Napoleonics, I wanted to do the Waterloo Campaign... it made more sense. £26 for x3 Regiments of 80men is good imo. You couldn't get that in any other scale barring 6mm but you couldn't get x3 Regiments for that price. I plan on having x9 French Battalions, x3 Guard Battalions (x12 in all), then x9 Anglo-Allied and x6 Prussian so together they out number the French like in real life. I'll have Cavalry too but not all shall be able to be on the table at once but msot shall and it'll look... epic haha.
Great video. Always look forward to your assessments. If I had known that this was coming out, I probably would have foregone Epic ACW. Having said that, I might still get it if only for the reason I could play this on a smaller table. Thanks for your input!
I for one am excited about these. The civil war sets were excellent too. The scale is an awesome way to have a battle with huge looking units on each side. I mostly have 28mm as well, but will also be getting some of these. I have French and Austrians for 1809. So I can do French and British with these for Waterloo. I think these are great on a 9x5 table. The huge units look awesome. It's also fairly cheap it seems to build a huge force, which if you have the time to paint them, will look great.
Well thought out argument for supporting this product regardless of your personal preference to support growth of Napoleonic gaming.
I think this is good for wargaming generally. It's too easy to forget our youthful exuberant past when we, or at least me and my mates, played with 20mm, Airfix, 25mm Minifigs, and 30mm in the same game because they were the figures we had.
This is an exciting launch whatever its limitations. Having heard an interview with "warlord big boss" I believe there will be highlanders, British rifles in skirmish order and Prussian in plastic plus "another unit" to be revealed.
Your analysis of the offering is, as usual, highly objective and informative.
I will not be going epic as if I do a smaller scale in addition To 28mm it will be ESR 10mm.
This is the same thing people said about 15mm. There is an interview with John Stallard where he confirms Prussians, Old/Middle Guard, Highlanders, Skirmishing 95th rifles and more.
Thanks for your videos on the Epic releases - found your channel through them, and they’ve been a big help.
I’ve been toying with the idea of getting into napoleonics for ages, but the idea of having to paint £200 worth of minis in napoleonic uniforms at 28mm to get a decent sized game was always enough to put me off. I looked at smaller scales, but the fact that no one seemed to agree on best ways to base them up for a particular games system was off putting, and I’m not hugely keen on metal minis either.
The Back Powder epic scale ranges seem aimed right at gamers like me - ACW was never especially interesting to me, but I’m delighted they’ve announced this line. And yes, of course it’s Waterloo, for all the same reasons that 90% of WW2 starter sets are D-Day and Normandy - it’s the accessible jump in point that people know a bit about, it’s what the starter gamer in that period will recognise on the shelf.
Starting off my Wargaming Career with these! Ordered them for X-mas Hopefully going to be able to play some games against me dad and grandad
Completely agree with‘stupid’ comments! People get so hot under the collars. Fundamentally, these are focused on new players of the period, not the old Grosnards who would buy into something from Warlord anyway! The one criticism I have is the lack of British skirmishers…. Although the guy on Warlords stand at Salute said they were coming on the Highlander sprue
Yes, it's an attempt to reach new players. Those who do not have a collection yet, so they will buy the figurines. Something like Age of Sigmar in 2015.
Besides, it is also about competition in the industry. There are a few manufacturers who make 28mm plastic figures and thus Warlord Games earn less.
A completely new scale with starters allows Warlord Games to gain a monopoly and increase sales. I wouldn't worry about 3d printers - the printout is still too expensive (when you want a whole army), and the accuracy of the printout is problematic.
Absolutely agree with you if it's naps who cares what scale they are . These little ones are in my opinion fantastic for fighting those bigger battles when space is a premium . Excellent video take care Terry
I’ve bought into all three of the ACW waves and have the British starter box on order.
The rules in the box are likely to be variations on the Black Powder game and appropriate supplements (that is what they did for ACW).
In a recent podcast interview with the Hobby Support Group John Stallard has also confirmed; Highland line and skirmish 95th Rifles, Old/Middle/Young Guard, two sprues of Prussians plus a further a sprue.
I’ll be all in on this as this’ll be my foray into Napoleonics.
Takes me back to Airfix 'midgits' days.
Generally speaking, I agree with your main point, highlighting the accessibility factor. Whilst I understand the argument that it would have been nice for the figures to be in a scale that matched already extant ranges, it's important to note that it isn't really aimed at veterans with extensive collections.
I suspect that at any rate, a good load of people will buy it, both veterans and new people. A lot of those will be intimidated by the contents and never actually paint them up, but a few will, and that means the hobby grows.
I shan't be buying it myself - painting 28mm is tricky enough for me, but if I come across anybody at a gaming club who has bought it, I'll give them all the encouragement I can.
I must admint that I started collecting black Powder because of that new scale. Before that I was thinking alot about entering in that hobby but I was scare of buing more and more boxes, but here I was able to buy 2 boxes and I got 2 full armies (wow!).
So my adventure with Napoleonic wargaming starts and I’m so excited 😁
I sold all my 28mm to get into this scale. The battles are amazing an it’s way faster for me to paint. Really enjoying the scale. I also have Pike and Shotte in this scale
I love small scale figures as the large games actually look big. 24 guys as a brigade in 28mm is hard for me to get my head around. Especially after discovering warmaster and 3d printing 10mm minis.
I’m embarking on black powder at 10mm with 30mm frontage, at 15mm I’d go to 40mm frontage. Changing the measurements to cm should allow me to play on a 6x4 with large army
My “pet project” is the Peninsular War. If they had made boxed sets in this scale for the Peninsular War, I would have thrown all my money at them! Do you think they’ll ever do that?
Yet another splendid well thought out video Tim. It would be crazy for what you personally have invested into 28mm it would be bonkers to start wholesale again in a new scale and glad you stick to your guns. Speaking for myself I was never brave enough to go full Black Powder in 28mm like yourself, and I was happy with 28mm in sharp Practice. Sharp Practice actually got over my fear of painting 28mm in Napoleonincs and I was seriously considering expanding into 28mm and then this rumour came about on epic Naps and so it came to reality.
If you tune into a new Facebook page created for Epic Napoleonics, there was an excellent blog interview with John Stallard of Warlords. They have 11 sprues in the works which include what you see at the moment, however John confirmed there will be two sprues of Prussians. In addition there will be Highlanders, Middle and Old Guard and Skirmishing style 95th rifles. The 11th sprue is a bit of a secret at the moment. I personally am hoping it will be the famous commanders of the Napoleonics. It may be Austrians as well ....time will tell. They are definitely all plastic and that was confirmed from John Stallard.
Had to add, I was at salute and saw the sprues in person at the Warlord stand and I can confirm the detail is absolutely fantastic and I was very impressed. Bought the December Wargames Illustrated French Calvary sprue and the detail is exquisite. Great video and as always love your content.
That's an aspect I'd not thought of, those that wanted to, but we're overwhelmed by 28mm. Thanks for the insight!
Yes, I can lie to myself, but I know come payday I'll be heading to The Outpost! 🤣
@@NapoleonicWargaming that was just my own experience into Napoleonic's. Which as I say became totally unfounded when I painted up a skirmish force for both British and French. I chose Peninsular War theatre and was dead chuft with the result. My space at home is a bit limited to max 6x4 table which is why when this dropped and I could go Black Powder with big armies that sold it to me. Your channel has been very inspirational for my venture into Napoleonic's and I can tell you hand on heart without question, is becoming very much my favourite period for wargaming. Just seen the very good discount at the Outpost on the preorders, Ill be sending them my business on this one.
Thanks man, if you do, can you use this link? It doesn't cost you any more and I get I little kick back...www.the-outpost.co.uk/aff/93/
If not, no worries! Glad you're enjoying the period, I find the harder you scratch the surface, the more interesting it becomes!
@@NapoleonicWargaming absolutely of course I will. I'll be placing my order in the morning. Thanks again for all you do and keep up the great work and enjoy your birthday with the lads.
Those french should be good enough for 1813-1814 as well, I *think*, so that's at least half useful if you prefer that. Now you just need some prussians (and austrians, and... )
Also, an early Happy Birthday to you!
Well I’ve watched several videos and read lots of content about this new range. Having only recently started Napoleonics in 28mm I wasn’t planning on getting sucked into duplicating in another scale.
Having listened to your thoughts here though, I’ve taken the plunge and ordered the combined starter sets from an independent seller near you! 😊
I can only apologise! 🤣
Have you seen the Wofun plexiglass ready painted 2D Peninsula 18mm figures ? . Like the idea of the Epic scale boxes , the ACW is very nice .
I agree! Cuirasses, Dragoons were the workhorses of the battlefield.
Friend has the ACW version so we gave it a go. biggest issue was the width of the units. we were using three foot units and one artillery as a single command just to try it out (thats all that was painted). five bases wide is way too much, here looks like four which may be better.
to be honest local group just decided to go for 6mm for 'big' games and 28mm for skirmish stuff
the ACW models are pretty nice but a bit "meah"
and 100% agree on needing a proper starter set
Personally I like the scale and the presentation. I have been wanting to get into Nappy for awhile this seemed like the perfect opportunity.
Same I've been AWI 28mm for the most part. I was going to do 28mm Napoleonics. I saw these and hummed and harred for a while. However I was planning on doing the Waterloo Campaign. I like the smaller scales but I also like to see the men. These seem the perfect fit for someone entering Napoleonics and having the grand scale look. Hence why I've but the bullet and so far I'm glad I did.
looking at the pictures it showed the 95th as being in line but the volitgers being in skirmish mode also the British infantry brigade box gives 3 infantry 1 rifles if memory serves there was the 95th and the 60th rifles there wasn't that many rifle regiments involved
Hi,
Scale not anywhere near as bigger problem to me as is the 10 figure strips,with the ACW with care I was able to cut them up and create a more Irregular look as well as allowing me to put in Mounted command plus remove a number of the second colour Bearers in the Confederate command strips but I cannot see,on close up examination, how I can achieve this with the Epic Waterloo so would find it difficult to use other rule sets other than those provided :(
Other problems include no Skirmishing figures with the British as the French sets do,instead they get formed Rifle strips at ease with every sprue !!!
I agree re foot print of units.
I have experimented with cutting French strips down and getting 3 of them on a base giving the 3 rank look,sounds wierd but looks good well at least I think so :)
Great work
Just now going to buy all three armies, have 2k of 28mm but want to see how they look on mass ....and hey just love this hobby.....
That feeling when Warlord didn’t make their new range in 2mm scale.
2mm is a bit small for me. It is super popular though!
@@NapoleonicWargaming agreed, but I know some people who adore 2mm.
12.5mm would do my eyes in. You’ve inspired me to get some 28s with your other videos at some point. But funnily enough I’ve brought my Flintloque stuff out of the garage for Silver Bayonet. You’ll have to do a video on Flintloque one day :) orcs and elves in full blown Napoleonic uniforms.
I caught it just at the end. I'd absolutely love to see it make a comeback though!
@@NapoleonicWargaming well, now you’re a major influencer, that lies within your power :)
@@stompie51 haha, I don't know about that!
He mentioned Warmaster!
Personally I love Warlord Epic. It's a huge step in the right direction. I'm here for the Napoleonic history and the host. Black Powder itself, while the rules are good, pretty much sucks as a vanilla game. I bought the Waterloo starter set in 28mm, played a few games, hated how enormous the ratio of "units I see" to "soldiers supposed to be here" were, and tore them down to make some 40k Imperial Guard. Playing games where an entire battalion is supposed to be represented with 24 figures is just ridiculous. It gives absolutely no idea of the scale of the battle you're representing.
The only reason 6mm isn't king outside skirmish-level games, is because Baccus made the completely unforgivable decision to space out their minis to the point where even line infantry units are spaced out like skirmishers. Warlord shot that entire idea out of the sky by molding their units shoulder to shoulder. Perfect. Now if only they'd make them *smaller*.
In short, the more figures you can get to represent the immense battles of the Napoleonic Wars, the better, and any step in that direction is a good one.
Love your channel. First time comment. I am long time 15mm player in the US. Black Powder gets credit among my friends for being a lot of fun and getting us back into Napoleonics after a long break. I honestly do not get the new scale. It makes for tons of issues. Beyond the obvious (they will never make it complete for the wars let alone the Waterloo Campaign), terrain scales are a problem. 12.5mm or 1/144 would be N scale for the railroad hobbyist. But, how many appropriate structures are available in N Scale? This is clearly another proprietary scale bid. I hope they sell the book separately so that I can see if it will be better for my 15mm collection than the BP2 book which we are currently using unmodified. Thanks
The reason for the scale was manufacturer could make "xx x xx" size sprue , warlord designer made xx size figures x 10 stands work inside that sprue- therefore it became 13.5 ( foot to eye ) or 18 to helmet roughly
Really like this release but the smaller scale they went for actually only helps you play on 'normal' 6x4 tables (180cm x 120 cm) IF they had also reduced the base / frontage size, they haven't. These are standard BP size bases and frontages so a battalion in line will be 24cm, 96 cm for a brigade in line, so it's exactly the same, so I'm curious how you think this helps for playing on 'normal tables'? We considered cutting down the base size but the infantry are cast in such a way that cutting them would be extremely difficult. You could, try a work around of using a smaller number of bases but you will then limit the formations you can depict on the table given that formations such as Attack Column and Square need 4 bases. If you use the units as brigades you also fundamentally change the type of game you are playing, especially BP which is heavily formation reliant.
Honestly I'd just reduce the bases to 3 per unit. You can always add a 4th if and when you form square, or a 33rd at Quatre Bras type triange. That's certainly what I'd do. For the most part French units were bigger than British ones, so you could get away with 4 bases for them, esp in attack column as the frontage won't be so wide
Update. They match basically match all the small 15mm figures..not newer larger 15/18mm figs
A friend and I are def keen to get into this it's perfect to get into Napoleonics it's far less daunting then the bigger scales.
Just waiting or Austro Hungary and Russia
They're out there on Etsy... www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1262188761/russian-infantry-with-geatcoat-and-kiwer?click_key=5aa562682de64379e4722e630f229c537537748e%3A1262188761&click_sum=863b288a&ref=search2_top_narrowing_intent_modules_top_rated-1&sts=1
I think the fear of the scale is that Warlord are trying to be the "Historical GW". A fear I doubt is true as too big a market for historicals. I could imagine if I were new to this I would ve straight in, but being someones who like the unusuals (hence my collection includes Assaye and Talavera) Ill keep an eye on what else comes out.
P.s. keep an eye out on my advent calendar this year!
I call them Historical GW all the time, basically since I saw bolt action and how the pricing on that game works. Reminds me of mid 00's GW.
Personally I don't mind if I play against someone in another scale if you want to play a game just for the fun of playing
I would have liked the scale to be a more conventional one, and having a plastic starter kit would have been great, easy to source, and if i want some obscure uniforms, i can find them online in metal. I would have bought this if there was a real starter box.
I think this is overall a missed opportunity here with a "strange" box layout (as some units only fit Waterloo while others don't fit Waterloo), as the main downside already with the ACW models was the 10 model stripes. This makes it the same size as 28mm regarding table sizes needed of playing Black Powder, Lasalle or any other Battalion level game (and just using 3 bases instead of 4 to save space applies to 28mm as well).
The big saving over 28mm is that the guns are "free" although if you want a specific setup, like more french dragoons, saving is soon going down with the mixed box layout
But were I can see great use for it are Brigade, Division or Corps level games like Blücher or Republique with 60x40mm Bases per unit
The models depth is cut in half though, so you don't have to house rule around the rapid advances that can happen with really successful orders by cutting movement rates down or in half.
I find in historical wargaming in general there is a lot of complaining when new initiatives like this come up. I totally understand people wanting to maintain standards in the hobby but I see this and Warlord in general as a great way to introduce people and build a collection.
Made me think you could use these on some board games and swap out the pieces or blocks on those boards. AND .....what Police are gonna knock on your door if you don't play Waterloo ? WGAF man ? Some people type before they think . I was looking around and if you get a Cigar Battle Mat and then go to 15mm houses and roads from Battlefield Accessories makes plenty of opportunities. we may see these in our hands until Feb 2022 in Oz
Absolutely!
What’s the possibility of producing heads for converting to peninsula war?
Please do a Swiss video. I just painted battalions of the 1st and 3rd Swiss. I still have too many questions!
I've done one, working on part 2 as we speak!
This is why Napoleonic Wargaming is the best channel on the internet! You rock Tim.
Are these using black powder rules too or is it a different rule set?
Straight Black Powder. The unit frontages are exactly the same at 40mm per base, but the depth is half normal. So you pretty much still need the same size of table, but the reduction in depth alleviates some of the problems with successful orders leaping all the way across in one bound.
If these are 1:144 scale then that’s N gauge, so there’s all those scenic items from model railways to look at. Just a thought.
They are N gauge said that was the reason for making them the scale they did. Nit sure I believe that, but certainly it opens up a lot of modelling options
the size of these figs is apparently 13.5 (not 12.5). Neither 10mm or 15mm.
Are they the same plastic as polystyrene aircraft kits I still have about a dozen tubes left.
No sure, but I'd imagine you can use the same glue
I think Epic Battles are a great idea and a step in the right direction, however it is ratjer frustrating that they chose 12.5 mm instead of the more common and popukar 10mm or 15mm ranges
What about foot artillery figures? I noticed horse artillery only.
I think they're on the infantry sprue
I think this range is absolutely fine. The scale may be a no from me, I'd rather get pendrakken, but thats my own personal choice.
The issue with Pendraken is their Waterloo section has no French lol. You have to use their 1809 range.
The "Red VS Blue" argument can be solved by applying the appropriate spray can color on the cheap and to any manufacturer in any scale and BAMB!!! the whole army done in a single solid color in under an hour. Get some spray varnish and done! Although it would be a shame to do that to AB's and I might call out the button police on that myself ::wink::
Haha. Yeah. It's be a bit of a shame to do that with AB
When does phase 1 ship?
I think it's in January
@napoleonic wargaming, how do you form a square with three units?
The infantry have 4 units as standard.
@@norm977 Understood, in the video he mentioned using 3 bases like in warmaster, how do you form a square with just 3 stands?
Not aware of the 33rd forming a triangle at Quatre Bras then? The uber chad move would be to model a base of units in square and replace them with that
@@NapoleonicWargaming Your right, I think that's where the term "chad" came from. disordered the charging unit on flex alone.
@@lochmoigh1 haha
All muh muneys go to AB and a lil old glory.
Warlord has a history of creating new scales for their games.
Blood Red Skies is 1/200 when 1/300 microscale planes would have been the "de facto" choice.
Black Seas is 1/700 I believe compared to the age old naval model scale of 1/1200.
Victory at Sea is 1/1800 I think, again 1/2400 would have been the established scale.
I don't believe anyone has really stepped in to offer alternatives in these scales (Mantic licensing Black Seas doesn't count).
Pretty much everything _except_ their 28mm lines are in a proprietary scale. And Cruel Seas, that was odd but I guess H&R doing some stuff in 1/300 wasn't seen as a competitor.
I like historicals because there's no "vendor lock-in"... but Warlord is doing their darnest to add it in.
Yeah I don't mind it tbf. Either the market shifts or it doesn't. I think with the increase in 3d printing I think it's less important than ever
@@NapoleonicWargaming it means I can’t use any of my existing collections with these Warlord games - which has stopped me from buying them.
125m you say.. hmmm 6:05
Are you sure the Prussians are coming?
I think they‘re 10mm scale, so 1/100 scale
No, they're a bit bigger. 13.5mm for thr ACW stuff. I think 10mm might be a bit too small to match up
@@NapoleonicWargaming whoops, I meant 15mm, maybe it is 13.5mm tho, definetely not 10mm, my mistake
Imho, if you’re intending to do epic scale battles, these unit footprints are far too big. I’m sticking to Adler in 6mm. Much, much cheaper and a very comprehensive range. Still, good luck to those who like this 10mm range.
Honestly just paint them if you want Austrians Prussian etc
Sorry 12.5 mm is a silly scale and, they will get no cash from me. These "proprietary" scales hurt all figure companies.
I believe its the well established 1:144 scale (as previously, and currently, used by Victrix).
But thats far enough
12.5mm how odd. Also think its 4 bases so units can forms square. I could be wrong though as not played shitepowder in years so not 100percent on the rules.
Yeah I believe that is why it's 4 bases. Nit being a fan of BP is fine, the minis will work just as well for any game system
@@NapoleonicWargaming Agreed. I just find it hard to justify switching scale when I have heavily invested in 15mm. I would snap them up in seconds if there were 15.
Also, 4 bases allow column of March the be represented easily.
Well, there is a problem. We all know, that Warlord likes to skip systems. If they do it with this, most people new to the hobby will be out again, because of the 12.5 mm. And like with ACW a lot of people will be out again, when they notice, what the rest of the range will cost. There are no Hannoverians, no Brunschweiger, no Dutch and no Prussians yet. Will they be cheap plastic or expensive resin? Will they be there at all? We don't know yet. And we have to tell this, if someone wants to start, so that he knows the risk. If that's okay for him, than we should encourage him. But I won't say "Yes, go forth!", without explaining the options.
Do we though? People played Napoleonics for decades with Airfix French and British. For someone getting into Napoleonics, do they really need to know all the nuance? I think we veterans somes forget red vs blue is enough for most people when starting out.
Plus, if WG do leave such massive gaps in the market, I look forward to them being filled by other companies
WE WANT ECKMUHL!
That would be cool tbf!
Austerlitz, ma Gueule.
I am not entirely sure that I agree with your viewpoint that any new Napoleonic thing is a good thing. I personally feel that the scale used is divisive - there are already enough scales out there without introducing another intermediate scale. The figure range is of a very low quality of sculpting and detail and has a poor range of poses.
This reeks of GW marketing - where Warlord is trying to convince people that they are the only people who do historical and are very strongly supported by Wargames Illustrated - or Warlord Illustrated as so many people now call it.
My personal opinion is that Warlord stuff is overpriced, the rules are lazily and poorly written and researched, and that there is an arrogance to the company that is deeply offensive.
Having said that, I will never say that to a new gamer. I tend to point them towards their local club so that they can see these things for themselves. We all want different things from the game after all. They may find that the low level of quality that WL provides is all that they want in a game.
I will leave with a quote from Richard Clarke - you should always be deeply suspicious of a company that sells both the rules and the figures for a game.
I will leave you to discover the rest of his comments on this.
:-)
They're all for points! I agree that I'd usually pick Perry or Warlord given a choice, except for Russians.
I think you're right about the GWification of Warlord/production of rules and minis, but is that necessarily a bad thing? While no fanboy of GW they certainly provide an all in one hobby experience, and it's clearly commercially successful.
They epic minis I really like, I've only painted up a couple of free sprues, but they look good to me, detail and pose wise.
As for the rules, i agree there are problems with them, many of which we discuss on the channel. I've not found them badly researched, but I'm more than happy to accept that milage may vary!
Ultimately, thanks fir taking the time to comment. One of the great thing about Naps us that there are so many different ideas about what people want that it's a very broad church!
The 12.5 scale is clearly designed to force the new players to only buy figures from Warlord. They did the same thing with Black Seas 1:700 ships. While Black Seas has been the best thing for Age of Sail wargaming since the Master and Commander movie. I don't see Epic Battles Waterloo having the same success.
The reason for the scale was manufacturer could make "xx x xx" size sprue , warlord designer made xx size figures x 10 stands work inside that sprue- therefore it became 13.5 ( foot to eye ) or 18 to helmet roughly
@@Rusty_Gold85 You are naive if you believe that expiation. Warlord could easily make a sized sprue for 6, 10, or 18mm figures.