Jan Frodeno Vs Gustav Iden : Running Analysis!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- How good are the pros at running? We’re here to take an in-depth look at Jan Frodeno and Gustav Iden's run technique to see what we can learn before our next race!
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Who is going to come out on top in 2022? Share your thoughts with us 👇
Mark said Gustav runs like Lionel...Damn...he went there!
Gustav actually is an over strider. simply this means his hip position is tilted backwards. This pushes his glutes backwards. He then leans forward but due to his hip position, he is not leaning forward in the pure sense of free running from the ankle but actually from the waist. he probably believes its from the feet/ankle but that is largely an illusion due to his over stride once he is moving. (interestingly watching him at a longer run say the marathon he is clearly a heel striker. once again any one who is heel striking is over striding due to the hip postition.)
simply, this all means his foot strike infact is not landing any where nere his centre of mass, that is an illusion created by his attempted forward lean. another give away is infact his swinging sideways of his glutes and rocking sideways of his spine and thus shoulders.
Simply the over strider because they arent running efficantly biomechanically, as the leg stretches forward and the and the foot goes to meet the ground the body has to drop along with the leg and foot further to meet the ground.
Where as someone with a naturally correct hip position or corrected hip position(all controlled by length of psoas and hip flexors...but thats another lecture lol) does not display the rocking movement as the distance to the ground remains neutral thru each stride as the foot lands correctly under the centre of mass. thus will either equate to true mid foot striking or occasionly fore forefoot unless sprinting then obviously the forefoot is used . one caution on the forefoot strike of someone who isnt sprinting or hasnt say trained them self to fore foot strike while running long distance say 800m?? and up, there is a good chance that if one does this natureally for jogging(forefoot striking) they are actually understriding, once again caused by hip position controlled by the length of psoas and hip flexors. ..thankfully both extremes are thankfully all correctable :)
ANy way lecture rant over lol ... forgive my spelling and grammar :)
Please do not forget that Jan turns 41 this year. This is outsranding what he is performing where Gustav and Kristian are mid-20‘s and the new generation.
Actually the best marathon runners are end-30', so I'm not sure he's disavantaged...
Really enjoyed this one! More of these would be great! A little race dissection is always nice 👍🏼
Nice one. I'd dare ro add though that Frodeno always shows that slight stiffness in the shoulders and surely runs more upright. Gustav's upper body is bend forwards in the perfect way to propell him...
forward. He indeed shows a bit of cowboy legs but his stride is more of a rolling one than Jan's.
Love the video. More of this please 😬 surely like lots of other people I just love Gustav running style, it looks so good. I’ve seen Jan running around Girona and it feels like he is floating, so effortless, just beautiful. Cheers and merry Christmas
Do more running comparisons, found it really helpful!
Great analysis. Always amazes me too see the numbers the pros put out compared to mine, haha. I’m 6’1 around 255lbs (down from 330lbs) and my zone 2 runs average high 140s in my cadence and even my 5k PR run of 29 mins 39 seconds I averaged high 150s in my cadence.
Running sub 30min 5k at 255lbs is actually impressive. Well done.
@@rogerc23 thanks I appreciate it. Excited to see what next year has in store if I keep dropping the excess weight.
Nice one👍 Do a Lionel Sanders analysis too.. He might not look mesmerizing but people should know that he isn't that bad at all.
You appear to have missed the potential cross-over stride that Gustav has. This seems to cause a compensating bend in the body that leads to lateral movement of the head. Jan's head remains pretty central throughout his stride.
A crossover "tends" to suggest weaknesses in the glutes, although that's difficult to believe in a professional triathlete. Also, with a crossover, the sideways forces exerted on the ankle, knee and hip are high, potentially leading to increased likelihood of injury.
Food for thought???
Interesting analysis! As a whole I think Gustav tend to lean a bit forward in his run, not quite hunched over, but with his centre of mass slightly forward in comparison with Jan who's back is a lot straighter. Might also help explain why Jan's shoulders seemed higher. But as you say, it's quite hard to tell from only the front angle.
Very interesting. Please, more of these!
Can you explain how Blummenfelt is so good considering his build, height and weight, seems quite different from a lot of the other triathletes
I did a quick morphology analysis of Blummenfelt earlier this year. I noticed that while his torso:leg-length ratio is quite average (normal) he has proportionally shorter tibias which are quite the advantage on the bike but can be a slight disadvantage on the run. Maybe he saves his legs on the bike.
It would be more interesting to hear a comparison of a pure 100% runner verses a triathlete both at the top level like Olympic medalists, e.g. Marathon versus Olympic distance triathlon, because those two race distances should both be just over two hours so running technique should be the same.
Thanks, would love to see comparisons between good and bad examples :)
Jan looks awesome 😎
Admire both Jan and Gustav
To me, the most noticeable difference is Gustav's torso moves right and left quite a bit compared to Jan's - see 7:06 where you point out to the fact that Gustav's knees point outwards. I think that's why his torso also moves outwards from left to right and this might be one of the sources of inefficiency.
yep, this is caused by Gustavs hip position causing him to actually be an overstrider meaning his foot is landing well beyond his centre of mass causing a braking on every strike and a body rock as the body needs to drop lower to meet the ground on every strike...any way i explain it in more detail else where here... hope that helps...but yes you are def correct.
Gustav actually is an over strider. simply this means his hip position is tilted backwards. This pushes his glutes backwards. He then leans forward but due to his hip position, he is not leaning forward in the pure sense of free running from the ankle but actually from the waist. he probably believes its from the feet/ankle but that is largely an illusion due to his over stride once he is moving. (interestingly watching him at a longer run say the marathon he is clearly a heel striker. once again any one who is heel striking is over striding due to the hip postition.)
simply, this all means his foot strike infact is not landing any where nere his centre of mass, that is an illusion created by his attempted forward lean. another give away is infact his swinging sideways of his glutes and rocking sideways of his spine and thus shoulders.
Simply the over strider because they arent running efficantly biomechanically, as the leg stretches forward and the and the foot goes to meet the ground the body has to drop along with the leg and foot further to meet the ground.
Where as someone with a naturally correct hip position or corrected hip position(all controlled by length of psoas and hip flexors...but thats another lecture lol) does not display the rocking movement as the distance to the ground remains neutral thru each stride as the foot lands correctly under the centre of mass. thus will either equate to true mid foot striking or occasionly fore forefoot unless sprinting then obviously the forefoot is used . one caution on the forefoot strike of someone who isnt sprinting or hasnt say trained them self to fore foot strike while running long distance say 800m?? and up, there is a good chance that if one does this natureally for jogging(forefoot striking) they are actually understriding, once again caused by hip position controlled by the length of psoas and hip flexors. ..thankfully both extremes are thankfully all correctable :)
ANy way lecture rant over lol ... forgive my spelling and grammar :)
very interesting, in our channel we made specific videos on running technique!
Interesting analysis. Great video.
Very interesting analysis.
Brilliant mark
Jan always runs with shrugged shoulders. It's his natural form while running.
I agree, a little. But he definitely looked a little more shrugged at the start of the Collins Cup run. I believe the commentators even picked up on it on the day
Amazing video! Going to watch it once more so I can run like Gustav by tomorrow. It’s that easy, right?! 😉
Brilliant video Mark, really nice comparison - wondering would shoes make any difference in this? I've a few different pairs now and found quiet different behaviour in each one of them, Vaporflys are amazing for bouncy springy & fast run however Tempo's r amazing for 1/2 marathon run! Recently got Hoka One One Carbon x2 but don't feel that responsiveness like from Nike shoes...hadn't got a chance to try the MeatSpeed Sky yet but wondering would it be worth to investment in it or work along with my Pace/Cadence etc. and potentially upgrade the gear??? Many thanks and always brilliant videos to watch along!!!
Think. you. should. have looked at if they lean, and their position from the side. I see that Iden is leaning a bit forward, whereas Frodo is straight up. Leaning is better
Agreed this is quite obvious difference. I would say Gustav runs more like a long distance runner.
Compare Lionel vs Vincent Luis in Oceanside that’s was a good run for Lionel 1:09
Side view needed
This analisys made me think, how i know If the length of my steps are short or long considering my height?
My 2 cents on this - I'd just consider the cadence are your jogging pace (say something like 5-6 min/km or whatever). Average height would be close to ~180 steps/min. A few more/fewer if you're really tall/short.
Then if you have an OK cadence at a given speed, the length is determined (e.g. speed * cadence = length).
You could also just try to consciously switch things around a little. Go for short run and intentionally inc/lower you cadence for a few km. Sort of need a watch for that. I've personally found that it felt slightly more comfortable at a slightly higher cadence doing that, and over time I increased my cadence (and thus, at a given speed, decreased my stride length). By about 7-8 steps/mins.
@@logiconabstractions6596 im 190cm.
My cadence for light running is around 165 to 172.
On short intervals and in 5k races It goes like 185 ir even 200 If in a descent.
So um think im i running too short? Stride length comes like 120cm max
@@rato_gordo cadence seems OK to me - you're fairly tall. For my part, I'M 170cm and jog is ~180. Closer to 190 faster paces.
If you want to analyze your stride, and you life in the north and have snow, you can use a freshly fallen snow on a lightly used road/bike path/etc. I did this a few times - find fresh snow (not 2 meters deep obviously, sidewalks/roads before plowing works best, as do bike paths if they are plowed so don't have a huge snow base already). Run on it as normal. Then backtrack & look at the prints.
You can measure your strides and observe the patterns. Even stuff like heel/forefoot landing show up decently. As well as alignment, orientation of the foot (if they splay inward/outwards), etc.
@@logiconabstractions6596 thats a Nice tip. I'll do It on soft soil o in Center east Brazil hehe
The most important data point is time used. Who runs fastest? The person with the fastest run split. This is like the commentators at Ironman. They look at the running form, but never at splits.
I couldn’t agree more. Very much separating them at the moment. I can’t wait for the IMWC
damn, I'm running like a scarecrow
Would say Idens technique is very similar to Vincent Luis
yes, they both look alike
Gustav really looks like he is running with his whole body
Seen Gustav running always sounds more tiring
🚴♀️🧘♀️
Great comparison. Both fabulous runners. But, 180 (+/-8) is the holy grail of cadences... Jan is slightly below the best cadence has nothing to do with leg length. Instead, he simply uses a lower cadence based on optimal aerobic state. Physics says that leg length has little to do with cadence but rather it is something called springingness of the foot push off that makes the cadence slower since both fall under their center of gravity. The problem with low cadence is that (for the average runner) it allows the foot to land front of the center of gravity and acts like a brake. I use to think that body leg length made a difference in optimal cadence until I read up on the physics of why this is not possible.