I still think Fusion 360 is a fantastic deal. I am chronically ill on disability and love this program. Autodesk has to protect its business and these 'restrictions' really don't affect me too much. I am grateful for having had a great experience and also grateful to Lars for his tutorials. Thank you.
I.m a hobbyist. I love fusion & fully appreciate why these changes have been made. I'm so thankful this poduct is still available for free for the hobyist. Thankyou.
IMO, Mr. Hooper came across as genuine and believable with a perfectly reasonable argument for the new rules. Autodesk is a business not a charity and I certainly am grateful for free access to such a useful tool. The new restrictions are not showstoppers for us hobbyists. And when you think about it, zero dollars is a pretty low price.
Fusion360 with these changes is still workable (at the moment), but that's not the point. The main issue I have is that this is a step in a direction I don't want to go. I (and other users) invest a lot of time becoming proficient with a piece of software and now I don't feel that I can trust F360 in the future. I'd prefer to invest my time with something that will grow, not degrade. I'm glad I've invested most of my time in FreeCAD, but I'm sad that this is happening to F360.
I can see them having restrictions in the free license. The thing is, they should have been in place from the beginning. To give somebody something only to take it away later is guaranteed to illicit a negative reaction from anyone. It's just human nature. The proper path would have been to release new must have shiny things in the commercial version to entice an upgrade. How could their marketing dept. not know this? I've never been a fan of cloud software or subscription models that can alter your agreement on a whim. This incident just reinforces those feelings. His line about 'protecting' makers and hobbyists is pure bovine excrement. And if people were abusing the license it should be easy enough to tell since it's all running on their cloud. Thanks for making the excellent instructional videos Lars. They're great for grasping cad concepts generally even if you're not using fusion.
Yea until they change it again. Autodesk doesn't care about the hobbyist because they don't make any money from them. For autodesk it's all about the money and how they can rob their customer of it.
Thomas Delgado first off nobody owes you anything for free. Giving education and hobbyist versions out free actually helps the company so it benefits them to continue on some level. More people know how to use the software and that’s more potential future customers. It’s also more people testing the software out and rooting out bugs. But to think somehow you’re owed something free and that charging for their product is theft is juvenile and selfish.
As a personal user of F360 I would like to thank Lars and Steve for this video. It was something that they didn't need to do, but reaching out to the community in this way goes some way in resolving the concerns that there are out there. I chose F360 as a design solution as it touches all 3 workflows I am interested as a maker (3D printing, Laser Cutting and CNC). The time I have spent learning this tool has been an investment from my side and it's good to hear Lars call this out and recognise this! Due to the quality of the communications, I too was worried about how I would work on my pet projects. As a result I decided to explore other CAD options, specifically FreeCAD. After using this application for a short time, it became immediately obvious the amount of hard work the design team and programmers at Autodesk had put in to make the tools easy to understand and use. Something that I took for granted! I will continue to use FreeCAD alongside F360 to broaden my horizons , however F360 will remain my daily driver for all of my projects for the foreseeable future. To Autodesk, thank you for creating an awesome tool and making it available to the maker community - never forget, today's young personal users are tomorrows commercial engineers To Lars, thank you for this video and all that have gone before. I would not be working on the projects I do without the time invested on your part! Hopefully this relationship with the maker community and Autodesk F360 continues long into the future.
Here are my 2 cents. My personal concern now is that, at some point in the future, an important part of F360 that I use will be turned off and I will be told I have to pay for it. I dont' know what will be turned off (nerfed, whatever you want to call it), I don't know much I will have to pay and I don't know if I will be able to afford it. I'm already a paying customer, but I don't want to be in a place where I feel like all of my designs are hidden on Autodesk servers and I'll be held to ransom at some point in the future. I love the product and am prepared to pay for it, but the way this has been done, has made me very nervous, to the point of looking at other options.
One of my biggest concerns is that it is a subscription based program. If certain features are removed to a "pro" version i will not be able to continue to use it because of the subscription. I would be more inclined to pay for the program outright. Im sure it would be very expensive anyway.
Ive been using all known Cad systems for the last 25 years in my work. Since I am a senior consulting engineer,working in Europe and USA, and sometimes consult at my customer using my customers Cad I dont use my Solidworks license so I put my annual service fee of $2600 on hold. When I wanted to restart my service fee and add SolidWorks CAM, they wanted $2600 times 3 plus $2600 plus the CAM license! So in comparison Fusion360 is soooooo priceworthy! I dont change my opinion easily but now I am running Fusion 360! Besides I do not understand at all the complaints for the fusion team wanting something back for all their work for years with free educational videos and tips etc. I feel nothing but gratitude for this Fusion Crew developing a system that makes my life easier!!!
J K Lars is not just a free lancer who likes making videos about F360, he is an Autodesk F360 employee. So while they pay his salary, he will never make a FreeCAD tutorial sorry.
Thanks for everything Lars. It was great to learn Fusion with your help over the years. Build a Cnc Mill for my private projekts and started with 3d printing. Im learning now FreeCad. Goodbye Autodesk
I would gladly pay 10-15$ a month for a somewhat restrictive license, but a commercial one that has features I would never use (like generative design,cam and simulation), I'm not very interested in. Would Autodesk loose anything by offering a cheaper license to semi-pro/enthusiasts?
I have an older, paid version of Solidworks that I have used for years at home. A few years ago I signed up for a free Fusion360 license for home projects with the intent of switching completely to Fusion360. I started into the learning curve, but then got an abrupt email from Autodesk telling me that the personal license was ending and that Autodesk was now demanding a $310 from me to keep my license. It was like the old MAD Magazine cover that said "Buy this magazine or we'll shot the dog". Apparently Autodesk is rethinking this now. Fortunately for me, I hadn't actually moved any important models over to Fusion360. I can only imagine what life would have been like if I had invested hundreds of hours building important models only to have the rug pulled out from under me. Now, like Lucy with the football, Autodesk is telling people they have re-imagined the free license and we should all come back and give it another try. But how do we know that some new guy won't take over in a year from now and decide to pull the rug out again? Unfortunately, I think this is a situation where you have destroyed all trust from the maker community and will not likely get it back.
I too have a license for Solidworks, and have been paying them for over 5 years now. I feel your pain--but all I can advise you to do is to IMAGE THE HARD-DRIVE in the machine with Solidworks on it. Because if you lose that drive, then you'll need to go back to the VAR agent you had while under subscription, and get them to again help you install and register the version of Solidworks you own. About 18 months ago I let my subscription lapse, using the same logic as you've stated. It seemed like a good idea at the time. However Solidworks had made some changes to how they handle legacy licenses, and it took me well over a week to be able to again get Solidworks up & running on a new machine when I upgraded. In my case imaging the HDD in my old machine wouldn't have helped--but you can bet I'll be imaging my hard drive if I ever decide to stop paying for an annual subscription going forward.
You know the old saying about how to boil a frog: you have to lure them in while the temperature is comfortable, then you can raise it gradually, bit by bit, until before they realize it is becoming dangerously hot, they are well and truly cooked.
Thank you. My take on it is that a lot of people were acting like entitled jerks. I am a retired software developer and software project manager that worked in that tall black tower in the city just east of where you live. I read that blog posting when it came out and found it to be very clear - and I understood it to say what you just said. People need to learn how to read. They also need to understand just how much it takes to produce and support a complex piece of software. I have a 3d printer and a home built CNC (Gatton CNC). If it takes me 10 minutes longer to make my parts it is not a big deal. I think the most complicated design (spinning wheel) had about 15 parts that I designed in F360 and cut on the Gatton. I am grateful that Autodesk allows me to use Fusion 360 for free.
Well, I read the table and everything else the team put out, and I'm still confused - even with Lar's video. Absolutely abysmal descriptions of the restrictions.
@@David_Best What part of it isn't clear? At this point all you will see different is the number of documents that are active at one time unless you also have a 4 or more axis milling machine. If you need to have rapids back just do a find and replace in the g code.
@@davematthews7686 Here is my original reply to Lars: " Even with your video here, I still do not fully comprehend the document print stuff. Your video here helps, but I still do not see revised descriptions from the F360 group that further clarifies things. I would ask that you do a follow-up video that illustrates what you can and can not do in producing 2D shop drawing with the personal license. For F360 to be useful to me, I need to publish the 2D representations. I have been able to "trick" the system to output to a PDF driver, but I'm fearful that I can't get the full 2D documentation set output even on paper. The same goes for active versus inactive projects - a video showing how a complex assembly with 100 parts, only 10 of which are "active" and needing to get to the 11th one and exactly how to archive one and do the substitution. "
@@David_Best he said you can still print. He even hinted that you can output to a pdf by installing a pdf printer as one of your printers. We have them on everything here and I think one ships with windows. You can probably get a better feel for the 10 docs limit by googling fusion 360 archiving. Pretty sure it is a current feature.
@@davematthews7686 I'm glad you are so clairvoyant on these topics. I would normally suggest you apply for the job of Product Manager of F360, but alas, your gloss-over the details approach is no better than how the team functions already. Not everyone is as informed on these intricacies as you clearly must be. "Limited 2D documentation and drawings: Single sheet support and print only" is completely insufficient description IMO since I have no idea what that means in practicality. I'm not asking for your assistance in figuring it out either.
Autodesk is wagering the trust they have built up over many years with the maker community. Autodesk management has obviously made some executive decisions without consulting application engineers for all fields of usage. I assume that the internal damage within Autodesk and Fusion 360 Team will take years to mend. From my personal hobbyist perspective the changes looks stupid and rash and will cause Autodesk a lot of internal and external friction. I understand that cloud services cannot work without costs, so lock us out and enforce only local file storage, but give us a a couple of months to download files before locking us out. Sorry the comment is so negative, keep up the good work Lars!
I'm a hobbyist and a Huge fan of Fusion 360. Thanks Lars for your great videos. I think finding out those "fake hobbyists" might not be an issue, based on simple activity monitoring. I also think Autodesk just gave the hobbyist community the best possible motivation to consider learning FreeCad and contribute to its improvement. Because FreeCad still has simulation, unrestricted CAM and other features that you guys are removing. Some people are already posting videos on moving to FreeCad from Fusion. I just finished building my desk CNC when this thing is Happening. I think I will continue to use F360 but I'm going to learn CAM in FreeCad.
Thank You, You Opened my eyes. I just realised what is the value of having data in your own PC and not having them in cloud subjected to somebody else will to grant you an access. Today they say this or that or charge you "only" that, what about tomorrow, ??? 40%off ?? This guy might change with next CEO. Thank you Autocad giving me the valuable lesson of not reling on anybody storing my data with anyone else. I have learned not to rely (however its for free!!!) on product that I cannot control let alone access. ( I need internet connection to Fussion 360 to export data out) I only found yesterday. Thank you Fusion 360 to open my eyes!!! I was naive.
The fundamental question we need to ask ourselves is: Are we confident AD will not change the licensing again? This should tell us whether to invest our time into something else.
Look how it's changed in the last three years... I'll be looking for a replacement. I haven't been consistent in building stuff in my garage, but when I jump back in to Fusion it's always functionally different with some quirk that takes a lot of time to figure why it doesn't work like it used to. My mantra is... "well it's free, and bad ass software". But if I'm forced to buy it, I'll look for software that doesn't keep moving the goal post.
You know they will change it again just like they have with autcad, inventor, mechanical and all of their other software. Their are engineering and architectural companies that have jump off the Autodesk platform because of all the changes they keep making while increasing the prices of their products. I'm done with this company and moving everything to Rhino and Freecad.
@@megacanam I think for free users the Long time operation of this software can be caused by full servors. For people like me it is very to much time lost to do a design. Now, I have to work with Freecad like some another people are doing now. I don't understand why they closed the 123D design open source software, it was very easy to use for 3d printer community
Well, I can't afford the software and I just got a 4th axis for Christmas and after all I learned, I can't use it. Oh well, I'll go learn another software, again! Lol But all the videos I've watch and all the frustrating time spent. Grrrrrr!
Simple answer if they can profit they will charge you. So do what you think is best for you because you know they won't. I for one would ask the content posters to remove their their tutorials how to videos etc. Don't beta test the products for them do not give them free product improvement advice. Don't like videos or subscribe to coperate schills like this guy
As an advocate of Open Source Software such as FreeCAD I think this was a good and fair appraisal of the situation. My interest in learning Fusion360 is to assist those who might either want to make the transition to FreeCAD or seek that alternative from the start. For industry FreeCAD will never usurp or even completely match Autodesk products, It may lack some functionality present in Fusion360 or, more likely, such functionality has to come from workarounds. Now as Lars points out, for the Personal version of Fusion360, workarounds may have to be used for such things a PDF, or assemblies will now just have to be limited to 10 components. FreeCAD, as open source software, does not have to balance access and revenue production and trades off some lack of sophistication for this complete freedom of use. Autodesk has an obligation to shareholders and employees (who both benefit from the revenue generated) to be a profitable company, the primary objective is to protect and build the revenue. One can only speculate what the parent company's share of the market is, but it will be large. All such organisations seek to at least maintain if not grow market share, particularly in an expanding market, despite increased competition. They have decided on a business model for Fusion360 that invests in gaining and holding individual users and converting some of those users to revenue producers. The education model provides a trained workforce some of whom will use their knowledge in firms already using Autodesk products. By offering academic licences they recruit universities and colleges to build Autodesk expectations in the wider marketplace. This is a proven strategy followed by other software manufacturers like Microsoft and Adobe. The hobby/small business market is growing and the opportunity to freelance, subcontract or maintain a small business based on CAD/CAM is expanding. As this happens the distinction between hobbyist and small business blurs and there is a need to ensure recompense for commercial use of the product. A hobbyist is useful to Autodesk, not only because if they grow into a business and start paid subscriptions it will produce more revenue but also because, if they are satisfiedwith the product they will encourage others who may then become subscribers. Alienating hobbyist users, as the initial changes have done, reduces Autodesk's reputation in a small but significant way and Autodesk has now moved to mitigate this a little. Some of the horses have already bolted but probably not the whole herd.
It would be interesting to know, how many hobbyists like myself compared to professional users there is. I personally wouldn't mind paying an amount like e. g. a Netflix subscription - though i much prefer to model new things i F360 over watching a movie. I feel a bit uncomfortable being a free rider - on the other hand, i cannot justify paying a full professional licence (I am using F360 around 5 hours on average each week). Maybe Autodesk should consider dividing the users into 3 groups: Hobbyists, semi professionals and professionals, where the semi professionals would pay half the amount the professionals do - and of course have some of the most impeding restrictions lifted.
How bout forming fusion co-ops get a bunch of users two throw in a couple bucks to buy 1 license then share it if it like some kind subscription service- probably wouldn't work though I can't get my family to agree on what's for dinner let alone share
This feels familiar. Like exchange between Darth Vader and Lando in empire strikes back: "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any more" , and "Are you complaining you are treated unfairly". No money spent but countless hours poured into learning F360, watching tutorials, trial and error... that itself is an investment. Original agreement was for hobbyists and startups making under $100K. Then the Empire altered the deal, only hobbyists. And then altered it again, now hobbyists have to use this hobbled version. And you are saying let's stick with F360, we should trust their word, Lord Vader will not alter the deal. So hobbyists can look at their track record and then decide where best to invest their time and effort. Bye.
I've been in design for over 50 years, you people need to realize this is a function of AutoCad. Years ago when cad took hold I used a program Called Generic Cad ( $ 60.00) which was purchase by Atuocad for their 3D program. Two years later they shut Generic Cad down and AutoCad went from $1,200 to 5,000 for the complete program. What I'm saying is "buyer beware".
@@1873Winchester Autocad is not free, right now everyone is being used for their benefit. The time is near when this product will not be free or cheap as it is now.
This does smell very much like we need the antitrust suit like United States v. Microsoft Corp. regarding internet explorer being bundled for “free” and killing the competition such as Netscape, Opera etc. in this case companies like RhinoCAD, BricsCAD, TurboCAD, DraftSight etc. are the ones hurt since people will flock to the highly marketed free option and build all their mindshare around it.
I really loved Fusion 360, and I was an avid champion for it. I told all my buddies about it. I really appreciated them letting a startup/ hobby guy like me have access to such powerful software, and I totally intended to buy the software when I could afford to. Then these mental defectives took away RAPIDS!!!! Are you kidding me? Guess what , I don't reward Extortion! This is NOT the way to do this! Pissing me off is NOT how you get me to spend money on your product. This sort of corporate behavior is what I expect from Bill Gates, not you guys. But I guess you don't need us little guys anymore after we helped you beta test and refine your product to the point that it actually could compete with the other software out there. Now I will never buy F360 because I WILL NOT reward this kind of behavior. You guys screwed the pooch on this. Tootles..
And the Autodesk B.A.S.T.A.R.D.S. have made it unusable with every poxy update, and i have the paid up licence ! I hate these charlatans and I am switching back to SW
This video definitely has an Autodesk PR Damage control vibe to it. That said, it also alleviates any major concerns I had. My interpretation is this: If some commercial users weren't abusing the hobbyist license, Autodesk would not have to take these actions.
People pirate autodesk cads for ages. I dont think such companies blink eye if they cant use fusion , they pirate something else. Thats why I dont trust this reason
I am two days into learning Fusion360 to use for my hobby 3D printer.....I'm glad I found this out before I invested any more time. $400 per year is much too much for hobby software.
Oh yeah I am glad I came across this before I spent one more second trying to learn Fusion 360. Autocad was overpriced 30 years ago.. I thought this was their redemption.. I see it was a bait and switch. Apparently half a billion in profit a year still isn't enough to satisfy the greed.
Gotta admit, I'm a bit surprised and shocked Autodesk listened to the community and brought back STEP export. Call me cynical I guess. I totally get the other changes and as a hobbyist they don't really impact me (sure, some are annoying, but none prevent me from getting a lot of value from F360), but the STEP issue was a deal breaker. Really glad to see this change.
I have a very mixed feeling on this. On the one hand I can understand the idea of protecting the IP, on the other hand I am altering my plans as a hobbiest that one day would like to go commercial Fusion360 was a no brainer to specialize in. Never even considered any other software. Now I'm evaluating other packages and workflows and it's becoming less and less likely I'll stick with Fusion. Losing rapids and tool changes is a hard stop for me. Sure I can edit it by hand, but that is going to exacerbate errors and slow down my learning abilities. I can't afford the tool breakage.
TheArsonsmith4242 , I’d be interested to know how much you paid your your CNC with a tool-changer, or how much you pay for access to that kind of equipment. If you are willing to pay good money for that kind of hardware, why do believe that the software should be free? What would you be willing to pay for all of the functionality included in the hobbyist/free licenseFusion 360 plus rapids and tool changes?
@@drhender6943 it's not just the license costs to worry about. It is the time invested in learning the tool. If the tool owners decide to change things on a whim, the issue is all that investment is lost. Even if you go to the paid option, the "we will change it again in the future" problem still exists. What has been illustrated is a lock-in culture, with the hope that the carrot can keep getting dangled a little further out for just a few more $$ a month... until when? They are preying on the sunk cost fallacy here, and not everyone wants to play that game
You Sir, are a class act. Very good video, highlighting the good, and the bad. I’m happy to see that Autodesk have fixed the colossally stupid idea to eliminate export of STEP models. How that idea ever got approved to begin with is shocking in and of itself. Trust was shattered... it will take a lot of time to repair that mistake. It was fixed immediately, but it shouldn’t take a public outcry for Autodesk to wake up and realize how stupid that was. Thank you for this video. I have gained so much knowledge from you, and your exceptional tutorials. I can’t thank you enough for all your hard work.
Autodesk inventor just terminated my maintenance contract which I’ve paid annually for years. That subscription arrangement would have taken control of our business. What harm would it have caused them to leave those who prefer maintenance. We were faithful, they weren’t.
Lars: I hope that you will include in a future Video, How to handle and the actual procedure needed to Archive or Deactivate and Activate my huge library of Documents. I'd like to get started on reorganizing my documents.
As a professional in the IT field and a former software developer, Autodesk is missing the point. They are taking capabilities away. They gave the community the full package and now they are taking things away. They have a history of doing this dating back decades - they have a history for screwing users over. Not caring about their customers. So there is history there that isn’t good. Now, look at Eagle. The free version has been limited since day 1. And people accepted that. Then Autodesk purchased them and opened up the entire package for free. Now they are pulling back. See the problem? It doesn’t seem disingenuous - it is disingenuous. I fully support free versions being limited. I don’t support removing features. So take this to heart - don’t give people features for free unless you are perfectly clear it is time limited. That’s being about being honest and good customer care. Thanks for listening.
I agree, it is a bit disingenuous. I was thinking the same thing when I began using it. The programmer in me, I often times catch myself trying to fathom how there existed free software with all of these complex features and functionality. Well, I guess I was right all along - it was only temporary! It's just hard to imagine that Autodesk didn't understand the scope of how its free version would be abused....
@@krishields2 agreed. IMHO, they knew. Remember the days when you had to have a hardware dongle to unlock CAD programs, specifically Autodesk? That was specifically designed to prohibit software piracy. And that was *before* the Internet was as expansive as it is now. Then came license servers using flexlm and the like. Again, all to combat piracy and abuse. The whole rubric of "true ups" to get legal with the number of licenses you purchased versus use. There are some many other ways they could have tackled this problem. First, they could have simply looked at the analytics - which I'm sure they did - so I'm not buying "we didn't know argument" about STEP. All the data is on their servers - they can figure out who is abusing the T&Cs and who isn't. Second, rather than eliminating useful features - simply limit how often you can use them. Ex, recently they removed the ability to import solid works files - I had no idea I was using that feature until it was gone. A large portion of files on Grabcad are Solid Works files -- one day I lost the ability to import them. It look me hours of searching to figure out why. Did they tell us they were removing that capability? Yes. Did I know or understand what it meant? No. I don't see a lot of reason to limit *import* - getting things into Fusion is a good thing. Normal companies simply limit export or the ability to save or add water marks or whatever. Finally, giving the whole community a whopping 2 weeks before they yank the rug out is simply corporate greed. And timing a 40% off sale to start the day the made the announcement is not coincidence. Does it suck - yes. Does @Autodesk have a lot of learn about good customer service? Yes. We we get over it - yes. So, no sense fretting over it - jump from the platform if you want, otherwise, suck it up and keep using an amazing piece of software for **free**. 0.02.
@@cyberreefguru for me it was the idea that the changes to the active documents might break the hundreds of hours of work on a project that uses a network of way more than 10 files as components via insert-derive. But I guess, *maybe* that won't be a problem according to this video.... Or maybe it will.
I see myself as an advanced hobbyist and I am very happy all functionality I use is 100% free. To my opinion I would love to pay 10 euro a month. I don't need full functionality for my hobby. It's less as before but far more I expect for free. Thanks for explaining and supporting hobbyist because there is no serious alternative for free to be fair.
Wonderful to see AutoDesk respond to the community like this, and thanks to you and Steve for addressing this. Putting a face to a corporation can make all the difference and having Steve talk openly about it and make changes to reflect the needs of hobbyists and makers speaks volumes to me about the company behind Fusion 360.
I am a 65 year old retiree, trying to keep my brain alive. I have no experience of CAD whatsoever until 6 months ago, when i purchased a 3D printer and started playing with Tinkercad. Since then I have invested hours of every single day (with the help of this youtube channel, and others) tenaciously trying to raise the learning curve, not only of the functionality of 360, but also efficient workflow. I became concerned from the rumours that I may have been chasing a new hobby up a blind alley. But I think it would be difficult to conceive of how this video could have more emphatically communicated their commitment to hobbyists and put my fears to rest. All of the arguments put forward in the video as to why AD consider the hobbyists to be worth supporting in the long term made complete sense to me and left me with confidence to continue my sometimes gruelling and frustrating attempt at education as I push for more ambitious projects. No matter how much time and effort I invest in the future, i cannot imagine that there is any functionality missing from the personal licence that I will ever want, or miss, as purely a hobbyist.. and this is for free! I am also an amateur photographer, but I still have to pay my subscription fees to Adobe for Lightroom and Photoshop, so having to sometimes swap between editable and archived projects in return for free use seems like a really good deal to me. Either i am a very poor judge of what I have spent 30 minutes watching with interest, or a lot of the comments i have read here have been written by folks who are incensed by rumours, such as I had heard, but haven't actually watched this particular video. I appreciate that there are other hobbyists with far more experience and more sophisticated requirements than i will ever aspire to but I am grateful to AD for the free use of 360 and the contribution to my otherwise having too much time on my hands.
I have been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. I enjoyed the Personal License for all that time. About 2 months ago I decided I wanted to go ahead and start paying for it not because I want to start making money off my models I am creating. I wanted to help support the company that helped me learn how to design and create my own models to 3d print. Thank you lars for all the videos of yours over the years that helped me in learning process. I still go back and watch the older videos and I look forward to more from you in the future. Thanks to the Fusion 360 team for creating a great product and I will continue to use it for years to come.
If get to the point of selling stuff I make I would gladly pay for it. I think the biggest mistake was offering so much power for free but at the same time could have been a long term marketing thing.
I would still like there to be a paid version of the hobbyist license. I would pay a little bit to get rapids, importing other files and 4/5axis machining. They can leave collaborative work out. Thats 100% a business requirement. Maybe on a month2month basis, because there's extended times I just don't use cam so I can't justify paying for it for the whole year. Even better, make a pay-as-you-use feature for things like online rendering and advanced cam generation.
That's a good idea. My mill sits idle for months at a time unfortunately. I'm happy to pay for it, the G-code is very good compared to hobby-level products, but the commercial license is too much.
Hi Lars. If you want feedback, well, here it is. I am working towards a home based business and have invested a LOT of money into it so far. I went with F360 because a lot of YT creators swore by it and I believe that is deserved. A lot of software companies have used the free to try method to their benefit and found creative ways to harness the crowd for cash while keeping the main attraction free. I completely get the leadership wants to see a profit here and there are probably many taking advantage and cheating AD. Don't expect to see these types forking over money...they will bail. (0 net gain) The honest ones will probably stay, but what the leadership is missing here is it sends the wrong message to gut the product just as people like me are settling into learning and using it. I have not made a penny off of my venture at this point (as my wife reminds me every time UPS drives up) and while I can afford to start paying the subscription, I am wondering what that will look like a year from now...like all the wireless and cable 'deals' out there all of the sudden start costing a fortune. This feels a lot like a bait and switch. Yea, I also get it I am not paying anything, but that's not the point...I am INVESTING my time learning this product that may be a core of my business some day....what if it starts costing me a grand a month? If my plans fail I have no intention of spending another dollar on 3d cad software. I loose and Autodesk looses. If I make it, we both win. AD should want me to win. It's really about loyalty. Will I be out there promoting it? Will I jump ship when a worthy competitor comes along? IMO AD should not have offered this deal in the first place only to snatch it back a year or so later.... FWIW
Interesting update, and you're right I've spent countless hours with your videos and Fusion. However adding .step export back isn't going to restore trust in Fusion and the future; and for hobbyist at maker spaces where even the hobbyist pay for machine time removing rapids is a deal breaker. The sum of changes still say throwing a fraction of the Fusion fee at FreeCAD will be a safer long term to avoid vendor lock-in when step files are removed again. So long and thanks for all the fish! (Also "ka-ching" is a bit of an unfortunate ambiguity given the circumstance :P)
Excellent video Lars....I, for one, am staying and think Fusion 360 is awesome. The fact Autodesk put this out there and let people like me use it on a personal level is beyond gracious. Thank you and Autodesk for giving back to the community.
It's all calculated in. They get user base, they get community, people get knowledge... And hold and behold, it affects business owners also, attracting more commercial licenses.. and it's a great move. They did it well. But now they made a mistake. A lot of people will go away, myself included. Also, for some that will stay will be impossible to learn everything in fusion anymore. It's a sad year. Goodbye. I will miss it for sure and will use it occasionally, but I lost passion immediately and will try to migrate fully to something else. Until now it was a win win situation and now it's loss loss for both sides. I am hundred percent sure.
@@GoranSkular I personally don't see it as a mistake. I respect your opinion but each Autodesk SBU has to stand on it's own, and they can't do that if they give their product away to everyone except businesses. Like I said, it's a matter of opinion and I understand why they would need to do this. As for me? It doesn't effect me all that much. I still use the software as they intended me to. While there are some features I can't use, I wasn't using them anyway, so the downside is minimal.
@@garywildgoose767 true, they know what they did. :) I am happy that I will be still able to open it from time to time and use it. Great product for sure. And it deserves to be monetized properly.
I started learning Fusion 360 because of you .. Thank you very much .. I was astonished that a piece of software of this caliber was free to use.. I am unsure of how these changes will affect me , if at all.. I use fusion 360 to design items to be 3d printed.. Some have several components each.. I completely understand that Autodesk wants a little bit of separation between a true hobbyist and a commercial user.. I am positive that I could get by just fine with the personal license.. However.. I will go ahead and purchase a license .. Thank you Lars.. and Autodesk ....
HI Bud spent hours trying to learn FUSION 360 as you know, i built my CNC as a hobbyists and have never made money out of doing my hobby i work off shore in the oil industry that's what funds my hobby, you should of made it where you can only post so many codes, as a hobby working at weekends if you did 2 jobs that's 100 codes a year that's more than enough for most guys, if your using more than that you are making money i would say,
Autodesk should be investigated for monopolistic / antitrust behaviors by the FTC! Anyone remember when AD bought out 123D make? Yup integrated that free software then purged it from the users... How about scanning software that AD bought, again bought that out and then offered for free then closed it out in favor of super high cost Recap Pro! How about Autocad LT or Revit straight up purchasers? Nope! Maintenance plans? Nope we don't offer those anymore? Now you need to pay a monthly subscription fee that can be canceled at any moment for failure to pay or cost increases that are insane! All of these actions are illegal and the users are watching!! I have written to the FTC and everyone here should as well. I get they need to make money and I have personally and professionally supported them for over 20 years with software and trainings and just good PR. But really AD needs to understand if your going to buy out a free software, charge for it, and then cancel it because it is a competitor that is A MONOPOLY. Heck AD why not offer a personal enhanced version as suggested below for a low fee? I highly doubt that many people miss the simulation! But tool change and rapids - That's a kick in the teeth and will make every user HATE fusion 360 for simple things that should just work. Too much exclusionary conduct for this company!!! There's more but I am just sick and tired of writing.
If you need tool changes and rapids, then I can only assume you are using the software at least semi professional. Then buy the damn thing and stop moaning about the limitations of a free product.
@@MyTubeSVp Actually I totally get the fact they are making the rapids and the ATC in a paid version. Where I have problems is their relationship with their customers, we are simply just getting screwed around every other year one software is gone, or costs go thru the moon on another. I wish they would give some considerations to the face that a lot of us would gladly pay for Rapids and ATC but not at hundreds of dollars a year for something some of use barely use. Hundred sure, Hundreds No, Thousands GFY. I am a Hobby user of Fusion 360, I use Revit and Autocad professionally.
Eng_281_Sys_Des My guess is that, as soon as they open the door to abuse, tons of people will gladly abuse the low priced version for purposes it was not intended for. You can search a licensed user, and make arrangements for them to export your designs to what you need for a fee to be agreed upon. Or maybe AD could provide in these services by themselves.
@@MyTubeSVp Yes you are correct! As I noted I understand the logic of charging, but there are ways to put bookmarks on the uses, without carte blanche chopping the head off the snake. Good idea on AD adding it as a service! Heck I would pay for a per export fee for something like that. Maybe they could do credits like they used to do for rendering in the cloud? You get 25 credits etc etc.. cost 5 credits per ATC/TC export? There are ways to do it without just eliminating it entirely and not charging an arm and a leg for a subscription or yearly model. Just wait until next year when its $450 a year or $1000 in two?
It shouldn't be difficult to add a line for tool change or rapid speed,...UNLESS you do not have access to what you are writing the code for. hmmm So what are you doing as a hobbyist that makes this such an issue?
I totally understand that Autodesk needs to monetize their investment in Fusion 360 and that the degree of misuse of the Personal License became to large to ignore. But I don't understand the strategy, at least not the pricing part. Why don't Autodesk make the options more granular than Free or Full Price? Maybe just a middel tier with more active projects, rapid moves and some other stuff for maybe a third of the normal price. Many of the young makers that frequents our facilities at FabLab RUC don't have the funds to pay full price but also only need some of the options, most of the not using any of the Autodesk cloud process time. Another possibility could be to make a stand-alone version without the cloud functionality for a one-time fixed price.
I guess things were just too good to be true. I would have never gotten into 3D design if it wasn't for 360. I just feel sort of ripped off as I spent hundreds of hours learning the software and diligently reporting all the many many bugs in the early days of the software. I guess Autodesk just used us as free beta testers to find bugs and polish their software. Not nice!
Thanks for the explanation Lars! I've been a machinist for 20 years and a hobbyist user of fusion for a year or so. I got laid off in April and recently started working again in a machine shop that uses fusion as a cam and design software. Having a cheap/free, easy to learn software like fusion let me tinker on hobby stuff like 3d printing. It gave me a lot of good base skills. It also gave me enough experience to jump into a programming and design job when I wasn't expecting it. With the downturn in the economy, I could see a lot of machine shops out there making the switch from big dollar CAM and going over to fusion. It's very impressive for what it costs. For the price, I think it's an amazing software and I'm amazed that it's offered so cheap. It can do many things that other cam programs just can't. I think Autodesk has made a great product and I am only going to continue to use it more in the future.
Even if i understand the needs of Autodesk and intensions of this video in terms of communication, I think that the big asset that got broken here is trust. Beacuse when you spend time learning a software in the prospettive of an investment then suddenly and unilateraly things change, you won’t trust anymore. I guess that, beyond good intentions or anyway intensions of company which i fully respect, at the end this move will turn counter produtive for Autodesk. Trust of your users in your brand is the ASSET!
You explained it perfectly right. I trusted F360, i went so far as to buy a brand new machine and learn the ropes from the ground up. I am about 18months in, i absolutely can not afford 700 bucks a year. The stress this has all caused me far exceeds any value F360 would have ever brought into my business. I cannot continue forward with a company that says one thing then goes back on their word. When the changed to yearly license re-ups a few years ago the writing was on the wall. I should have ran then. Fusion thought we would all be so deeply invested in their junk software that we would HAVE to pay...Nope. Ill sell my machines before i get in bed with Fusion again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Lars, sorry but the removal of rapids kills fusion for hobbyists. If im routing a small 3d engraving or even a fretboard for a guitar. This take a run time of 2 hours to 8 hours. Going in and trying to find every rapid and edit it would be impossible on a 3d engraving. Couldnt they just limit rapid to 100ipm or something so we can still use it, but still slow for a production machine?
Thanks Lars for the video and all the work you have put into explaning Fusion 360 over the years, I have learned alot thanks to you, and explaining what is happening now is absolutly great in stead of listen to gossip. I hope you one day will come back with all your good tips and tricks.
Loved seeing the Boss. As an old man now I am having a ball learning something new. 10 years ago this was not possible for the man on the street. So many brilliant ideas are born in backyard sheds late at night. I a 3D printer which is great, if I can draw it I can 3D print it. So far still got L plates on with Fusion 360. Cheers from Australia
Lars, I am so glad you are back making new videos so you could explain the Fusion 360 changes. Like many of us, I have been following some threads on this subject, and I thought the updated personal version would still be fine for me and other hobby users like me. Your explanation confirmed this, and I am planning to continue to use Fusion 360 and follow your excellent instructional videos. Thank you for this update.
I'm a hobbyist...The things is the recurring aspect of the subscribing... I bought Windows once and I get free update. I understand, a commercial license comes with special support but as I said... I'm a hobbyist... I dont need that bulletproof support. I'm willing to pay couples of hundred dollars, but be done with it. 380$ every year when I can be 2 to 6 months without touching My CNC or Plasma table or 3d printer is hard to justify... as a hobbyist I'm not using fusion360 365 days per year... I'll give it a try again but im considering switching to Freecad / Blender. if they start something right now, they will do the samething in a year or two and etc... I'm not sure I want to see this happenning...
This. Lars suggests going the paying route and honestly I'd consider it with its current price even though I'm a hobbyist and don't even spend that much time on this hobby... But the subscription model is just prohibitive.
EXCELLENT Explanation. You read my mind on all the little questions that no one seemed to 'get'. Thank you for making this video. Now I can sleep knowing my library of little projects isn't going to vanish in October. It's so good to have you back with us!
I use Fusion about once or twice a month for very small personal prints. I will not mind paying around $50/y, (I really do not expect it to be "free"), however $400/y translates to about R7000 in my currency which is very steep for something I hardly use.
They are trying hard to make it sound like it's not a big deal for the maker community. It's a HUGE deal. I respect their decision to monetize more users, they are running a business after all. I have closed my account and have moved on to FreeCAD, which is just as powerful. I wish I hadn't spent all time learning Fusion360.
Thank you for taking so much of your time to make the videos. I realize you are doing this out of the kindness of your heart, and no matter what happens in the future I will always be grateful for the valuable lessons.
Thanks you so much for this video and also thank you to Autodesk for keeping Step export in the free version. Creating 3D step models and using them inside KiCad was the reason why I started using Fusion 360 in the first place. Then I realized it's such a fun hobby and I got myself a 3d printer :-)
I'm a hobbyist running a really basic manual milling machine that I've converted to CNC, and I generally have to babysit it, and make sure that chips aren't building up, etc. Because It's fairly low powered, and doesn't have a really high spindle speed, I'm often cutting quite slowly to get an appropriate chip load, and am using mostly conventional milling, since the lead screws have a bit of backlash, so even facing a surface is near half rapids, and will be _way_ slower now. I've always been bothered by putting work into a piece of software that relies on the cloud, and which I can't keep using if Autodesk decides to change my license, or someday discontinues fusion. (instead of just running off of the latest released version) This is just an example of how it happens, and my past work becomes unusable. I'm out.
I for one, I am an older retired adult. I have no reason or purpose to "commercialize" anything. I use Fusion 360 in a limited way. However, I have created many , many projects while learning. I do save these files "to the cloud" I guess. I save them because in 1, 2, 3, months I will not remember how I did some things or how I used a "feature." So, in some cases I re-open an old saved project in the hopes that it will jog my memory. My main reason(s) for starting using fusion 360, was 3D printing, and my personal opinion that "learning new things," helps stave off dementia{for the brain to think outside the box?), also it helps staves off some boredom in the winter months. In many cases, I think Fusion 360 is above my abilities but I keep trying. Although I worked in engineering, mechanical activities were always beyond my abilities (electronics /engineering that is a different story). Fusion 360 has in some regards, helped me to address some of those short-comings. So as long as my above uses are not overly restricted I guess I will continue plugging away in fusion 360. I do not, nor will I ever have enough money to purchase a "standard license" or any license that renews on a yearly basis. Thank you for the videos, I have watched many of them when I get stuck. I also watch videos from several others.
Great update. Thank you and thanks to Steve for taking the time to reach out. I appreciate Autodesk supporting the maker community and rethinking their support of STEP going forward. This makes me feel better about the new restrictions. I intend to stay with Fusion360 for personal use. Humans have a strong reaction to perceived loss and I have some of that going on, however I cannot find fault with Autodesk's decision and changes.
when I got my 3D printer it was suggested to me by numerous people to get the personal version of fusion. I did and when I asked for some good video's on how to use it your name came up instantly and consistently. I'm having a great time watching your video's and modeling the things you have.
Fusion360 DID get many into CAD and 3D Printing. Some Hobbyists would have found the 3D CAD freeware, cumbersome, if not insurmountable (from our Maker Space-3d printers direct experiences) We all knew that a program which requires net-connection, and constant updates, was designed for a subscription model from the start. Thanks to Fusion360, it will be MUCH easier to teach FreeCAD (for example) to people who have previously learned Fusion360 for their 3d printers.
I use AutoCAD daily in my professional life. I am learning Fusion 360 to use for my hobbies (CNC & 3D Printing). Most of what I make as a hobbyist is donated to be used to raise money for charities and non-profits. I am perplexed by how many negative comments I've read on this topic. It seems to all come back to the "no good deed goes unpunished" philosophy. There are many companies that make products that could be utilized by hobbyists in a scaled down version who DON'T offer a free or affordable layman's version of their product. Autodesk does in the form of Fusion 360. I am thankful for that. It has allowed me to do SOOO many things that I would have otherwise not been able to do without shelling out a ridiculous amount of money (just to support my hobbies). Okay, now they are taking away a small part of the functionality to distinguish between the true hobbyist and the cheaters. That is a MUCH better solution than what they could have done... and what some other companies have done when facing similar situations. This program isn't an entitlement or right... it's a gift. I'm thankful to have it.
Agree with you, but the biggest failure here is their abysmal descriptions of what the restrictions are. "Simulation" I took to mean tool path visibility in the CAM environment. And even with Lar's video here (which I very much appreciate), the print and active projects stuff is still confusing.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one of the most common file sharing types for 3d files is, you know, common. You should have seen that taking away STEP files was a mistake waaaaaay before you did it.
After 25 years of dealing on and off with Autodesk as a Hobbyist, both in the game and Cad worlds, this is the typical bullshit they pull to force sales. It started when they bought Maya, and they are just digging as deep as they can to find new ways to pull this.
@@garywildgoose767 Ya I mean it. Free is not the issue that's just the latest trick in the arsenal. I would pay for a hobby license, maybe a 2-3 hundred a year but that won't be the case. I will invest my time and effort learning and using it then next year it will be 4-5 hundred cause they know you become more dependent on your tools as time goes along. They always regress to greed. I am farmer who builds and maintains my farming equipment, how much am I expected to pay today, tomorrow next year, just to do that? You tell me...
@@Resignandreset this entitlement culture is just shocking to me. The fact people think they are entitled to something they didn't produce, dont own and had no hand in creating is mind boggling. Then when a "for profit" company restricts a little bit of usage, they are called out as tyrants...I just dont get it. Perhaps if you worked for Autodesk and your year end bonus counted on turning a profit, you would think differently, but perhaps not. You would probably shrug your shoulders and demand your bonus anyway because you're entitled...which is why you don't work there in the first place and are left out here in the cold complaining.
wondering what pocket-nc hobbyist will do?.... and the folks who brought a 4th axis to their hobby mill cnc?....on a personal note I want to say thank you to you Lars and Fusion 360, going to continue using Fusion 360, will miss the rapids in my tool paths, but nothing I can't do in a text editor :-)
Hi Lars, thanks for this video, and thanks too for all those excellent videos which have helped me learn a new hobby at the age of 70. I now teach my grandchildren 360 and hope they follow on. I appreciate the comments from Autocad management. He stressed the need for separation, which is completely understandable, we are in a commercial world. However, as with Microsoft, what you give away comes back as profit as eventually your products become ubiquitous in the marketplace and an essential part of an aspiring C.V. This is to the benefit though of folk like me who find 360 inspirational. What doesn't fit though with your interview is the fact that I am continually bombarded by Autocad with email and notifications to upgrade to the commercial verion. There is also a subliminal message in these communications which suggest I will lose out if I dont comply...' the clock is ticking' Ok, I'm going to trust you and the top man and continue with 360, it is a fabulous product and its is free for hobbyists but please pass this on to the marketing team to wind down the fear factor they have introduced.
I'm not sure it will work in your case but I would suggest unsubscribing to emails from Autodesk the next time you receive one. I don't get any such emails from them. Best of luck.
I am new to Fusion 360, literally less than a week! I have been using Solidworks for a very long time but don't have access to it right now. I don't understand the active documents comment. What do I have to do to make a document archived? Is it as simple as closing it out from the top open documents tabs, or do I need to go into a separate location to activate and archive a document?
The thing is that Autodesk became relevant again and leveraged the community in the recent years thanks to a philosophy of a few people that are obviously not in the company anymore. The thing is that Autodesk forced the hand of its competitors to come closer to that philosophy and now you are distancing yourselves from it. You are being complacent and trying to milk the gains of the past few years. And you will inevitably go back to the Autodesk of the '90s. Because you moved the goalpost and now that everyone is aiming for that you're going the other way. But people do have alternatives now and you are just giving the alternatives the chance to get the crucial community support to grow. P.S. I sincerely hope I am looking at this wrong. Because I was an Autodesk fanboy and telling everyone that they need to support this visionary company. And of course you understand that I'm now being called gullible.
I've learned everything at home and I told to my boss about Fusion about 6 months ago. These changes felt kinda like a slap in the face. Well I guess I can still keep full feature set by using my working license at home. But I'd really like to keep things absolutely separated. But anyway, full feature set is what has kept my interest in Fusion. Luckily they bring back that file conversion. That's major deal for everyone. Just today friend had drawn part to machine at some wood working workshop with cnc and he asked me if I could convert his step file to dxf that he wouldn't have to pay ridiculous conversion fees to workshop operator. Did that in Fusion and I'll be really pissed off if this feature is taken away. It's the absolute basic function that is needed, period.
@@jothain This is exactly my situation. I started with F360 a few years ago and my work bought a seat for me. As the company grew, it bought more and more seats. I kept my personal version in order to keep things separate and for my use at the Makerspace I'm a member at. Removing rapids, dxf export, step export (now reversed) makes the personal license close to useless for my hobby needs. If they could remove these features today, they can remove more next year. It's time for me to take a serious look at FreeCAD.
@@ScottWalde Yeah. I've been afraid that this personally wonderful free version of Fusion will cease to exist. I've also used FreeCAD to keep some very basic skills with it and I'll keep this on as nobody knows, I might not have that luxury of my employers Fusion license in future. Better to have so fail-safe for future. FreeCAD is actually really nice feature wise. Unfortunately it's UI needs a lot of love. But anyway really useful failsafe anyway if get around it's UI.
Like so many others I'll be switching to freecad and maybe investigate blender, fusion is a great product, but I wish I hadn't invested many many hours learning it now. I suspect that they'll continue to increase the number of limited features for free users, it would be far better if they tried to find a different way to charge for those specific features (charge a small amount for the option of using a currently limited feature 25 times, 50 times, 100 times, 300 times etc... whatever numbers. This would enable them to earn some money from hobbyists, many of whom are willing to spend *some* money, but make it so people using it for a business are better off getting a standard licence) and added some cast iron guarantees about their commitment to hobbyists. Autodesk knows very well that it's beneficial for them to keep hobbyists on their side, more people familiar with the software directly translates into more sales, that's why education editions of software exist.
So I had hoped to make something on my little CNC 4 axis every couple months. Turning a pencil holder, or small totem carvings etc. It looks like that is not possible in this SW... Any alternatives for 4 axis simulation for casual hobbyists?
I was about to purchase a 4 axis CNC router for hobby use before retiring in a few yrs, now that is on hold. Been learning drawing with you 'Lars Christensen' for many hours, months, and was about to transition into more CAM practice. Been a CNC Machinist 40+ yrs, used Autocad, Solidworks, Catia, and the free Solidedge 2D that's always been there for me. I knew not to trust AutoDesk, but DAM, it was so tempting !! This was too good to be true, and it was not true. NOW I FEEL VIOLATED !! because we were used as guinea pigs to debug the software on our time, for them, for free, not for us to keep using. The Hobbyist version will end and the excuse will be " We could not control the abuse ". But you Lars are a wonderful person and I Greatly appreciate your training vids, Good Luck...
I see an opportunity in this announcement, lets face it Fusion 360 is what it is because of the comments and feedback freely given by the hobbiest community, if Freecad is open to these comments with the view to make a truly open source product that can go head to head with the likes of Fusion 360 then we all gain. we will need Lars to create the fantastic content on how to get the best out of Freecad. Everyones a winner
@Barry ManilowaI missed that point, explains a lot doesn't it. A sort of 3 line whip to get him to come out and explain Autodesks position. Purely a damage limitation exercise.
As a hobbyist, I have been using Fusion for almost a year now. The fact that this software has been available completely free for home use has amazed me since day one. NOBODY offers free full-featured software like this, it's always a crippled or limited version. There's absolutely no doubt many people are using it for profit and not paying the licensing fee. I hope the changes don't affect what I use it for, and I totally respect their decision to make these changes.
Hi Lars, Thx for your clarification. Is it possible, to get to know how archiving and recalling as an active projekt has to be done? It is not so easy to find out. Regards from Germany Andreas
Not sure about the rapid thing (g0) . Is that any time it moves the cutter when not cutting material? Eg between every pass of and adaptive 3D cut? If so is it easy to spot those and edit them back to g0?
"Is that any time it moves the cutter when not cutting material?" - Yes "If so is it easy to spot those and edit them back to g0?" - No...and that's why Autodesk did it and removed them. Fun fact: (Semi-)professional machines which are capable of high cutting speeds are much more less affected than low-end machines with their slow cutting speeds which are used by hobbyist, using Fusion360 g-code on them now lasts forever. Well done, Autodesk...
@@paulpahl1607 well I’ll find out the impact soon as I am cutting a bunch of maple tops soon. Having said that my cutting speeds are generally around 2500mm/min so may be ok
It all makes sense until AD decided to remove the Rapids and Tool change G-code items. The logic is flawed if the position is taken that a hobbyist has all the time in the world so hobbling their equipment by slowing down their machine is acceptable. In fact, I would argue that for a hobbyist, their time allowed to pursue their hobby is even MORE limited than a production facility. I don't get the entire work week to pursue my interests. The second flaw I see here is the lack of consideration for the effort, money and some might say pride that a hobbyists take in the capability of their machine. Having their software of choice (and I agree it is a choice) negate these things is more of a personal affront. The third and final thing I will note is that the software industries move to a recurring revenue model, although good for them, is almost always not acceptable to a hobbyist. When you put that recurring dollar in the expense column of your balance sheet, it gets a lot more dis-tasteful. Again, even worse for a hobbyist. Give me a one-time cost option that doesn't upgrade, doesn't have all the fancy cloud, share stuff. Fine. But when I have to justify spending money year after year when I might only use it 4 or 5 times, is a non starter. I don't want to lease, I want to buy. Thanks Lars. Appreciate the time. ~P
Hi Lars, A little ticked off about the save as .pdf option that I no longer have as a hobbiest... was nice to print out and bring to my garage workshop to work on woodworking projects...when they called me a few months back, they did not say that that would be a change.
Thank you for an excellent clarification! Hopefully it'll trickle down and quiet those screaming in pain - yes, some have expressed these changes as if their firstborn was being taken away.
The new limit on export types will stop my Fusion journey cold. These changes also make me reconsider my commitment to any Autodesk products... you giveth and boy, do you ever taketh away!
It's the usual pattern, like what Sonos did: 1) announce something that's bad for the community 2) there is backlash from the community 3) based on how much backlash there is: a) take it back completely, or b) change it to something a bit less bad 4) community pats itself on the shoulder for having prevented it
Thank you Lars, thank you Steve for the open and frank discussion, and thank you Autodesk for listening to the community and putting STEP back in :) If you ever make it to the South West of England, I'll gladly buy you a beer ;)
Thank you Lars! Best information on this matter yet. Too many maker YT'ers jumping on the doom and gloom bandwagon. I hope people appreciate this software for what it, the best model designing software available at any price. That we are allowed to use it for free is a blessing. Thank you.
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I still think Fusion 360 is a fantastic deal. I am chronically ill on disability and love this program. Autodesk has to protect its business and these 'restrictions' really don't affect me too much. I am grateful for having had a great experience and also grateful to Lars for his tutorials. Thank you.
I.m a hobbyist. I love fusion & fully appreciate why these changes have been made. I'm so thankful this poduct is still available for free for the hobyist. Thankyou.
IMO, Mr. Hooper came across as genuine and believable with a perfectly reasonable argument for the new rules. Autodesk is a business not a charity and I certainly am grateful for free access to such a useful tool. The new restrictions are not showstoppers for us hobbyists. And when you think about it, zero dollars is a pretty low price.
He sounded genuine enough, yet he sat there saying "trust me" repeatedly, while using a fake background.
Fusion360 with these changes is still workable (at the moment), but that's not the point. The main issue I have is that this is a step in a direction I don't want to go. I (and other users) invest a lot of time becoming proficient with a piece of software and now I don't feel that I can trust F360 in the future. I'd prefer to invest my time with something that will grow, not degrade. I'm glad I've invested most of my time in FreeCAD, but I'm sad that this is happening to F360.
Guess it's time to say goodbye to autodesk. I cant pay 400 a year for a hobby.
I can see them having restrictions in the free license. The thing is, they should have been in place from the beginning. To give somebody something only to take it away later is guaranteed to illicit a negative reaction from anyone. It's just human nature. The proper path would have been to release new must have shiny things in the commercial version to entice an upgrade. How could their marketing dept. not know this?
I've never been a fan of cloud software or subscription models that can alter your agreement on a whim. This incident just reinforces those feelings. His line about 'protecting' makers and hobbyists is pure bovine excrement. And if people were abusing the license it should be easy enough to tell since it's all running on their cloud.
Thanks for making the excellent instructional videos Lars. They're great for grasping cad concepts generally even if you're not using fusion.
Having STEP export back is a relief.
Certainly is!
That keeps me on the platform.
That was big for me as well.
Yea until they change it again. Autodesk doesn't care about the hobbyist because they don't make any money from them. For autodesk it's all about the money and how they can rob their customer of it.
Thomas Delgado first off nobody owes you anything for free. Giving education and hobbyist versions out free actually helps the company so it benefits them to continue on some level. More people know how to use the software and that’s more potential future customers. It’s also more people testing the software out and rooting out bugs. But to think somehow you’re owed something free and that charging for their product is theft is juvenile and selfish.
Confusion360
Yes and Con is the main thing
As a personal user of F360 I would like to thank Lars and Steve for this video. It was something that they didn't need to do, but reaching out to the community in this way goes some way in resolving the concerns that there are out there.
I chose F360 as a design solution as it touches all 3 workflows I am interested as a maker (3D printing, Laser Cutting and CNC). The time I have spent learning this tool has been an investment from my side and it's good to hear Lars call this out and recognise this!
Due to the quality of the communications, I too was worried about how I would work on my pet projects. As a result I decided to explore other CAD options, specifically FreeCAD. After using this application for a short time, it became immediately obvious the amount of hard work the design team and programmers at Autodesk had put in to make the tools easy to understand and use. Something that I took for granted! I will continue to use FreeCAD alongside F360 to broaden my horizons
, however F360 will remain my daily driver for all of my projects for the foreseeable future.
To Autodesk, thank you for creating an awesome tool and making it available to the maker community - never forget, today's young personal users are tomorrows commercial engineers
To Lars, thank you for this video and all that have gone before. I would not be working on the projects I do without the time invested on your part!
Hopefully this relationship with the maker community and Autodesk F360 continues long into the future.
Here are my 2 cents. My personal concern now is that, at some point in the future, an important part of F360 that I use will be turned off and I will be told I have to pay for it. I dont' know what will be turned off (nerfed, whatever you want to call it), I don't know much I will have to pay and I don't know if I will be able to afford it. I'm already a paying customer, but I don't want to be in a place where I feel like all of my designs are hidden on Autodesk servers and I'll be held to ransom at some point in the future.
I love the product and am prepared to pay for it, but the way this has been done, has made me very nervous, to the point of looking at other options.
One of my biggest concerns is that it is a subscription based program. If certain features are removed to a "pro" version i will not be able to continue to use it because of the subscription. I would be more inclined to pay for the program outright. Im sure it would be very expensive anyway.
Ur gonna pay if they can make any sort of profit from it pal
Ive been using all known Cad systems for the last 25 years in my work. Since I am a senior consulting engineer,working in Europe and USA, and sometimes consult at my customer using my customers Cad I dont use my Solidworks license so I put my annual service fee of $2600 on hold. When I wanted to restart my service fee and add SolidWorks CAM, they wanted $2600 times 3 plus $2600 plus the CAM license!
So in comparison Fusion360 is soooooo priceworthy! I dont change my opinion easily but now I am running Fusion 360!
Besides I do not understand at all the complaints for the fusion team wanting something back for all their work for years with free educational videos and tips etc.
I feel nothing but gratitude for this Fusion Crew developing a system that makes my life easier!!!
I still like LARS and recommend that he start a new tutorial channel about FreeCAD - if he does I believe many of us will follow!
J K Lars is not just a free lancer who likes making videos about F360, he is an Autodesk F360 employee. So while they pay his salary, he will never make a FreeCAD tutorial sorry.
Thanks for everything Lars. It was great to learn Fusion with your help over the years. Build a Cnc Mill for my private projekts and started with 3d printing. Im learning now FreeCad. Goodbye Autodesk
I would gladly pay 10-15$ a month for a somewhat restrictive license, but a commercial one that has features I would never use (like generative design,cam and simulation), I'm not very interested in. Would Autodesk loose anything by offering a cheaper license to semi-pro/enthusiasts?
Motion simulations definitely would have to be in this kind of license
Thanks Lars and Fusion 360. I am amazed that a program this powerful has a free version in the first place. I also appreciate all your free tutorials.
I have an older, paid version of Solidworks that I have used for years at home. A few years ago I signed up for a free Fusion360 license for home projects with the intent of switching completely to Fusion360. I started into the learning curve, but then got an abrupt email from Autodesk telling me that the personal license was ending and that Autodesk was now demanding a $310 from me to keep my license. It was like the old MAD Magazine cover that said "Buy this magazine or we'll shot the dog". Apparently Autodesk is rethinking this now. Fortunately for me, I hadn't actually moved any important models over to Fusion360. I can only imagine what life would have been like if I had invested hundreds of hours building important models only to have the rug pulled out from under me. Now, like Lucy with the football, Autodesk is telling people they have re-imagined the free license and we should all come back and give it another try. But how do we know that some new guy won't take over in a year from now and decide to pull the rug out again? Unfortunately, I think this is a situation where you have destroyed all trust from the maker community and will not likely get it back.
I too have a license for Solidworks, and have been paying them for over 5 years now. I feel your pain--but all I can advise you to do is to IMAGE THE HARD-DRIVE in the machine with Solidworks on it. Because if you lose that drive, then you'll need to go back to the VAR agent you had while under subscription, and get them to again help you install and register the version of Solidworks you own.
About 18 months ago I let my subscription lapse, using the same logic as you've stated. It seemed like a good idea at the time. However Solidworks had made some changes to how they handle legacy licenses, and it took me well over a week to be able to again get Solidworks up & running on a new machine when I upgraded. In my case imaging the HDD in my old machine wouldn't have helped--but you can bet I'll be imaging my hard drive if I ever decide to stop paying for an annual subscription going forward.
You know the old saying about how to boil a frog: you have to lure them in while the temperature is comfortable, then you can raise it gradually, bit by bit, until before they realize it is becoming dangerously hot, they are well and truly cooked.
Thank you. My take on it is that a lot of people were acting like entitled jerks. I am a retired software developer and software project manager that worked in that tall black tower in the city just east of where you live. I read that blog posting when it came out and found it to be very clear - and I understood it to say what you just said. People need to learn how to read. They also need to understand just how much it takes to produce and support a complex piece of software.
I have a 3d printer and a home built CNC (Gatton CNC). If it takes me 10 minutes longer to make my parts it is not a big deal. I think the most complicated design (spinning wheel) had about 15 parts that I designed in F360 and cut on the Gatton. I am grateful that Autodesk allows me to use Fusion 360 for free.
Well, I read the table and everything else the team put out, and I'm still confused - even with Lar's video. Absolutely abysmal descriptions of the restrictions.
@@David_Best What part of it isn't clear? At this point all you will see different is the number of documents that are active at one time unless you also have a 4 or more axis milling machine. If you need to have rapids back just do a find and replace in the g code.
@@davematthews7686 Here is my original reply to Lars: " Even with your video here, I still do not fully comprehend the document print stuff. Your video here helps, but I still do not see revised descriptions from the F360 group that further clarifies things. I would ask that you do a follow-up video that illustrates what you can and can not do in producing 2D shop drawing with the personal license. For F360 to be useful to me, I need to publish the 2D representations. I have been able to "trick" the system to output to a PDF driver, but I'm fearful that I can't get the full 2D documentation set output even on paper. The same goes for active versus inactive projects - a video showing how a complex assembly with 100 parts, only 10 of which are "active" and needing to get to the 11th one and exactly how to archive one and do the substitution. "
@@David_Best he said you can still print. He even hinted that you can output to a pdf by installing a pdf printer as one of your printers. We have them on everything here and I think one ships with windows.
You can probably get a better feel for the 10 docs limit by googling fusion 360 archiving. Pretty sure it is a current feature.
@@davematthews7686 I'm glad you are so clairvoyant on these topics. I would normally suggest you apply for the job of Product Manager of F360, but alas, your gloss-over the details approach is no better than how the team functions already. Not everyone is as informed on these intricacies as you clearly must be. "Limited 2D documentation and drawings: Single sheet support and print only" is completely insufficient description IMO since I have no idea what that means in practicality. I'm not asking for your assistance in figuring it out either.
Autodesk is wagering the trust they have built up over many years with the maker community. Autodesk management has obviously made some executive decisions without consulting application engineers for all fields of usage. I assume that the internal damage within Autodesk and Fusion 360 Team will take years to mend. From my personal hobbyist perspective the changes looks stupid and rash and will cause Autodesk a lot of internal and external friction. I understand that cloud services cannot work without costs, so lock us out and enforce only local file storage, but give us a a couple of months to download files before locking us out. Sorry the comment is so negative, keep up the good work Lars!
I actually prefer local storage. I don't trust cloud storage one whit.
I'm a hobbyist and a Huge fan of Fusion 360. Thanks Lars for your great videos.
I think finding out those "fake hobbyists" might not be an issue, based on simple activity monitoring.
I also think Autodesk just gave the hobbyist community the best possible motivation to consider learning FreeCad and contribute to its improvement.
Because FreeCad still has simulation, unrestricted CAM and other features that you guys are removing.
Some people are already posting videos on moving to FreeCad from Fusion.
I just finished building my desk CNC when this thing is Happening.
I think I will continue to use F360 but I'm going to learn CAM in FreeCad.
Thank You, You Opened my eyes.
I just realised what is the value of having data in your own PC and not having them in cloud subjected to somebody else will to grant you an access. Today they say this or that or charge you "only" that, what about tomorrow, ??? 40%off ?? This guy might change with next CEO.
Thank you Autocad giving me the valuable lesson of not reling on anybody
storing my data with anyone else. I have learned not to rely (however its for free!!!) on product that I cannot control let alone access. ( I need internet connection to Fussion 360 to export data out) I only found yesterday.
Thank you Fusion 360 to open my eyes!!! I was naive.
The biggest problem is what will they do next? What else will they take away next time. I wish they would had a lower tier price
I second the need for a lower priced tier !
The fundamental question we need to ask ourselves is: Are we confident AD will not change the licensing again? This should tell us whether to invest our time into something else.
Look how it's changed in the last three years... I'll be looking for a replacement. I haven't been consistent in building stuff in my garage, but when I jump back in to Fusion it's always functionally different with some quirk that takes a lot of time to figure why it doesn't work like it used to. My mantra is... "well it's free, and bad ass software". But if I'm forced to buy it, I'll look for software that doesn't keep moving the goal post.
You know they will change it again just like they have with autcad, inventor, mechanical and all of their other software. Their are engineering and architectural companies that have jump off the Autodesk platform because of all the changes they keep making while increasing the prices of their products. I'm done with this company and moving everything to Rhino and Freecad.
@@megacanam I think for free users the Long time operation of this software can be caused by full servors. For people like me it is very to much time lost to do a design. Now, I have to work with Freecad like some another people are doing now. I don't understand why they closed the 123D design open source software, it was very easy to use for 3d printer community
Well, I can't afford the software and I just got a 4th axis for Christmas and after all I learned, I can't use it. Oh well, I'll go learn another software, again! Lol But all the videos I've watch and all the frustrating time spent. Grrrrrr!
Simple answer if they can profit they will charge you. So do what you think is best for you because you know they won't. I for one would ask the content posters to remove their their tutorials how to videos etc. Don't beta test the products for them do not give them free product improvement advice. Don't like videos or subscribe to coperate schills like this guy
You know what they say... ‘If you aren’t paying for a product, you are the product’.
As an advocate of Open Source Software such as FreeCAD I think this was a good and fair appraisal of the situation.
My interest in learning Fusion360 is to assist those who might either want to make the transition to FreeCAD or seek that alternative from the start. For industry FreeCAD will never usurp or even completely match Autodesk products, It may lack some functionality present in Fusion360 or, more likely, such functionality has to come from workarounds. Now as Lars points out, for the Personal version of Fusion360, workarounds may have to be used for such things a PDF, or assemblies will now just have to be limited to 10 components.
FreeCAD, as open source software, does not have to balance access and revenue production and trades off some lack of sophistication for this complete freedom of use.
Autodesk has an obligation to shareholders and employees (who both benefit from the revenue generated) to be a profitable company, the primary objective is to protect and build the revenue. One can only speculate what the parent company's share of the market is, but it will be large. All such organisations seek to at least maintain if not grow market share, particularly in an expanding market, despite increased competition. They have decided on a business model for Fusion360 that invests in gaining and holding individual users and converting some of those users to revenue producers. The education model provides a trained workforce some of whom will use their knowledge in firms already using Autodesk products. By offering academic licences they recruit universities and colleges to build Autodesk expectations in the wider marketplace. This is a proven strategy followed by other software manufacturers like Microsoft and Adobe.
The hobby/small business market is growing and the opportunity to freelance, subcontract or maintain a small business based on CAD/CAM is expanding. As this happens the distinction between hobbyist and small business blurs and there is a need to ensure recompense for commercial use of the product. A hobbyist is useful to Autodesk, not only because if they grow into a business and start paid subscriptions it will produce more revenue but also because, if they are satisfiedwith the product they will encourage others who may then become subscribers.
Alienating hobbyist users, as the initial changes have done, reduces Autodesk's reputation in a small but significant way and Autodesk has now moved to mitigate this a little.
Some of the horses have already bolted but probably not the whole herd.
It would be interesting to know, how many hobbyists like myself compared to professional users there is. I personally wouldn't mind paying an amount like e. g. a Netflix subscription - though i much prefer to model new things i F360 over watching a movie. I feel a bit uncomfortable being a free rider - on the other hand, i cannot justify paying a full professional licence (I am using F360 around 5 hours on average each week). Maybe Autodesk should consider dividing the users into 3 groups: Hobbyists, semi professionals and professionals, where the semi professionals would pay half the amount the professionals do - and of course have some of the most impeding restrictions lifted.
Yes, need cheaper options for casual users who need just a little more than the 'free' tier offers.
How bout forming fusion co-ops get a bunch of users two throw in a couple bucks to buy 1 license then share it if it like some kind subscription service- probably wouldn't work though I can't get my family to agree on what's for dinner let alone share
This feels familiar. Like exchange between Darth Vader and Lando in empire strikes back: "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any more" , and "Are you complaining you are treated unfairly". No money spent but countless hours poured into learning F360, watching tutorials, trial and error... that itself is an investment. Original agreement was for hobbyists and startups making under $100K. Then the Empire altered the deal, only hobbyists. And then altered it again, now hobbyists have to use this hobbled version. And you are saying let's stick with F360, we should trust their word, Lord Vader will not alter the deal. So hobbyists can look at their track record and then decide where best to invest their time and effort. Bye.
I've been in design for over 50 years, you people need to realize this is a function of AutoCad. Years ago when cad took hold I used a program Called Generic Cad ( $ 60.00) which was purchase by Atuocad for their 3D program. Two years later they shut Generic Cad down and AutoCad went from $1,200 to 5,000 for the complete program. What I'm saying is "buyer beware".
Yeah the smartest way to be a hobbyist is to avoid AutoCad, YOU WILL GET BURNT! Sooner or later.
@@1873Winchester Autocad is not free, right now everyone is being used for their benefit. The time is near when this product will not be free or cheap as it is now.
This does smell very much like we need the antitrust suit like United States v. Microsoft Corp. regarding internet explorer being bundled for “free” and killing the competition such as Netscape, Opera etc. in this case companies like RhinoCAD, BricsCAD, TurboCAD, DraftSight etc. are the ones hurt since people will flock to the highly marketed free option and build all their mindshare around it.
I really loved Fusion 360, and I was an avid champion for it. I told all my buddies about it. I really appreciated them letting a startup/ hobby guy like me have access to such powerful software, and I totally intended to buy the software when I could afford to. Then these mental defectives took away RAPIDS!!!! Are you kidding me? Guess what , I don't reward Extortion! This is NOT the way to do this! Pissing me off is NOT how you get me to spend money on your product. This sort of corporate behavior is what I expect from Bill Gates, not you guys. But I guess you don't need us little guys anymore after we helped you beta test and refine your product to the point that it actually could compete with the other software out there. Now I will never buy F360 because I WILL NOT reward this kind of behavior. You guys screwed the pooch on this. Tootles..
And the Autodesk B.A.S.T.A.R.D.S. have made it unusable with every poxy update, and i have the paid up licence ! I hate these charlatans and I am switching back to SW
It's good to hear the other side of the story. Thank you for making this video.
This video definitely has an Autodesk PR Damage control vibe to it. That said, it also alleviates any major concerns I had. My interpretation is this: If some commercial users weren't abusing the hobbyist license, Autodesk would not have to take these actions.
Of course, the 10 document limit still STINKS!!
People pirate autodesk cads for ages. I dont think such companies blink eye if they cant use fusion , they pirate something else. Thats why I dont trust this reason
@@wojtek-33 I am aware. It's obvious this is meant to "cause friction" as Lars put it. In other words, it's purposefully a pain in the ass.
This is what you call, "scripted damage control"
I am two days into learning Fusion360 to use for my hobby 3D printer.....I'm glad I found this out before I invested any more time. $400 per year is much too much for hobby software.
Reading these thousands of replies it seems Autodesk alienated more people who were not in a position to buy it anyway so they don't really care.
Oh yeah I am glad I came across this before I spent one more second trying to learn Fusion 360. Autocad was overpriced 30 years ago.. I thought this was their redemption.. I see it was a bait and switch. Apparently half a billion in profit a year still isn't enough to satisfy the greed.
Gotta admit, I'm a bit surprised and shocked Autodesk listened to the community and brought back STEP export. Call me cynical I guess. I totally get the other changes and as a hobbyist they don't really impact me (sure, some are annoying, but none prevent me from getting a lot of value from F360), but the STEP issue was a deal breaker. Really glad to see this change.
It feels almost like a funeral ...
I have a very mixed feeling on this. On the one hand I can understand the idea of protecting the IP, on the other hand I am altering my plans as a hobbiest that one day would like to go commercial Fusion360 was a no brainer to specialize in. Never even considered any other software. Now I'm evaluating other packages and workflows and it's becoming less and less likely I'll stick with Fusion. Losing rapids and tool changes is a hard stop for me. Sure I can edit it by hand, but that is going to exacerbate errors and slow down my learning abilities. I can't afford the tool breakage.
TheArsonsmith4242 , I’d be interested to know how much you paid your your CNC with a tool-changer, or how much you pay for access to that kind of equipment. If you are willing to pay good money for that kind of hardware, why do believe that the software should be free? What would you be willing to pay for all of the functionality included in the hobbyist/free licenseFusion 360 plus rapids and tool changes?
@@drhender6943 it's not just the license costs to worry about. It is the time invested in learning the tool. If the tool owners decide to change things on a whim, the issue is all that investment is lost. Even if you go to the paid option, the "we will change it again in the future" problem still exists. What has been illustrated is a lock-in culture, with the hope that the carrot can keep getting dangled a little further out for just a few more $$ a month... until when? They are preying on the sunk cost fallacy here, and not everyone wants to play that game
You Sir, are a class act. Very good video, highlighting the good, and the bad.
I’m happy to see that Autodesk have fixed the colossally stupid idea to eliminate export of STEP models. How that idea ever got approved to begin with is shocking in and of itself. Trust was shattered... it will take a lot of time to repair that mistake.
It was fixed immediately, but it shouldn’t take a public outcry for Autodesk to wake up and realize how stupid that was.
Thank you for this video. I have gained so much knowledge from you, and your exceptional tutorials. I can’t thank you enough for all your hard work.
Autodesk inventor just terminated my maintenance contract which I’ve paid annually for years. That subscription arrangement would have taken control of our business. What harm would it have caused them to leave those who prefer maintenance. We were faithful, they weren’t.
Lars: I hope that you will include in a future Video, How to handle and the actual procedure needed to Archive or Deactivate and Activate my huge library of Documents.
I'd like to get started on reorganizing my documents.
As a professional in the IT field and a former software developer, Autodesk is missing the point. They are taking capabilities away. They gave the community the full package and now they are taking things away. They have a history of doing this dating back decades - they have a history for screwing users over. Not caring about their customers. So there is history there that isn’t good. Now, look at Eagle. The free version has been limited since day 1. And people accepted that. Then Autodesk purchased them and opened up the entire package for free. Now they are pulling back. See the problem? It doesn’t seem disingenuous - it is disingenuous. I fully support free versions being limited. I don’t support removing features. So take this to heart - don’t give people features for free unless you are perfectly clear it is time limited. That’s being about being honest and good customer care. Thanks for listening.
I agree, it is a bit disingenuous. I was thinking the same thing when I began using it. The programmer in me, I often times catch myself trying to fathom how there existed free software with all of these complex features and functionality. Well, I guess I was right all along - it was only temporary! It's just hard to imagine that Autodesk didn't understand the scope of how its free version would be abused....
@@krishields2 agreed. IMHO, they knew. Remember the days when you had to have a hardware dongle to unlock CAD programs, specifically Autodesk? That was specifically designed to prohibit software piracy. And that was *before* the Internet was as expansive as it is now. Then came license servers using flexlm and the like. Again, all to combat piracy and abuse. The whole rubric of "true ups" to get legal with the number of licenses you purchased versus use. There are some many other ways they could have tackled this problem. First, they could have simply looked at the analytics - which I'm sure they did - so I'm not buying "we didn't know argument" about STEP. All the data is on their servers - they can figure out who is abusing the T&Cs and who isn't. Second, rather than eliminating useful features - simply limit how often you can use them. Ex, recently they removed the ability to import solid works files - I had no idea I was using that feature until it was gone. A large portion of files on Grabcad are Solid Works files -- one day I lost the ability to import them. It look me hours of searching to figure out why. Did they tell us they were removing that capability? Yes. Did I know or understand what it meant? No. I don't see a lot of reason to limit *import* - getting things into Fusion is a good thing. Normal companies simply limit export or the ability to save or add water marks or whatever. Finally, giving the whole community a whopping 2 weeks before they yank the rug out is simply corporate greed. And timing a 40% off sale to start the day the made the announcement is not coincidence. Does it suck - yes. Does @Autodesk have a lot of learn about good customer service? Yes. We we get over it - yes. So, no sense fretting over it - jump from the platform if you want, otherwise, suck it up and keep using an amazing piece of software for **free**. 0.02.
@@cyberreefguru for me it was the idea that the changes to the active documents might break the hundreds of hours of work on a project that uses a network of way more than 10 files as components via insert-derive. But I guess, *maybe* that won't be a problem according to this video.... Or maybe it will.
"Not caring about their customers." The free users are not "their customers." "Their customers" are the paying people.
I see myself as an advanced hobbyist and I am very happy all functionality I use is 100% free. To my opinion I would love to pay 10 euro a month. I don't need full functionality for my hobby. It's less as before but far more I expect for free. Thanks for explaining and supporting hobbyist because there is no serious alternative for free to be fair.
Any time a corporate VP says, "trust me," I immediately don't trust him.
Wonderful to see AutoDesk respond to the community like this, and thanks to you and Steve for addressing this. Putting a face to a corporation can make all the difference and having Steve talk openly about it and make changes to reflect the needs of hobbyists and makers speaks volumes to me about the company behind Fusion 360.
I am a 65 year old retiree, trying to keep my brain alive. I have no experience of CAD whatsoever until 6 months ago, when i purchased a 3D printer and started playing with Tinkercad. Since then I have invested hours of every single day (with the help of this youtube channel, and others) tenaciously trying to raise the learning curve, not only of the functionality of 360, but also efficient workflow. I became concerned from the rumours that I may have been chasing a new hobby up a blind alley. But I think it would be difficult to conceive of how this video could have more emphatically communicated their commitment to hobbyists and put my fears to rest. All of the arguments put forward in the video as to why AD consider the hobbyists to be worth supporting in the long term made complete sense to me and left me with confidence to continue my sometimes gruelling and frustrating attempt at education as I push for more ambitious projects. No matter how much time and effort I invest in the future, i cannot imagine that there is any functionality missing from the personal licence that I will ever want, or miss, as purely a hobbyist.. and this is for free! I am also an amateur photographer, but I still have to pay my subscription fees to Adobe for Lightroom and Photoshop, so having to sometimes swap between editable and archived projects in return for free use seems like a really good deal to me. Either i am a very poor judge of what I have spent 30 minutes watching with interest, or a lot of the comments i have read here have been written by folks who are incensed by rumours, such as I had heard, but haven't actually watched this particular video. I appreciate that there are other hobbyists with far more experience and more sophisticated requirements than i will ever aspire to but I am grateful to AD for the free use of 360 and the contribution to my otherwise having too much time on my hands.
I have been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. I enjoyed the Personal License for all that time. About 2 months ago I decided I wanted to go ahead and start paying for it not because I want to start making money off my models I am creating. I wanted to help support the company that helped me learn how to design and create my own models to 3d print. Thank you lars for all the videos of yours over the years that helped me in learning process. I still go back and watch the older videos and I look forward to more from you in the future. Thanks to the Fusion 360 team for creating a great product and I will continue to use it for years to come.
If get to the point of selling stuff I make I would gladly pay for it. I think the biggest mistake was offering so much power for free but at the same time could have been a long term marketing thing.
I would still like there to be a paid version of the hobbyist license. I would pay a little bit to get rapids, importing other files and 4/5axis machining. They can leave collaborative work out. Thats 100% a business requirement.
Maybe on a month2month basis, because there's extended times I just don't use cam so I can't justify paying for it for the whole year. Even better, make a pay-as-you-use feature for things like online rendering and advanced cam generation.
That's a good idea. My mill sits idle for months at a time unfortunately. I'm happy to pay for it, the G-code is very good compared to hobby-level products, but the commercial license is too much.
Hi Lars. If you want feedback, well, here it is. I am working towards a home based business and have invested a LOT of money into it so far. I went with F360 because a lot of YT creators swore by it and I believe that is deserved. A lot of software companies have used the free to try method to their benefit and found creative ways to harness the crowd for cash while keeping the main attraction free. I completely get the leadership wants to see a profit here and there are probably many taking advantage and cheating AD. Don't expect to see these types forking over money...they will bail. (0 net gain) The honest ones will probably stay, but what the leadership is missing here is it sends the wrong message to gut the product just as people like me are settling into learning and using it. I have not made a penny off of my venture at this point (as my wife reminds me every time UPS drives up) and while I can afford to start paying the subscription, I am wondering what that will look like a year from now...like all the wireless and cable 'deals' out there all of the sudden start costing a fortune. This feels a lot like a bait and switch. Yea, I also get it I am not paying anything, but that's not the point...I am INVESTING my time learning this product that may be a core of my business some day....what if it starts costing me a grand a month? If my plans fail I have no intention of spending another dollar on 3d cad software. I loose and Autodesk looses. If I make it, we both win. AD should want me to win.
It's really about loyalty. Will I be out there promoting it? Will I jump ship when a worthy competitor comes along? IMO AD should not have offered this deal in the first place only to snatch it back a year or so later.... FWIW
Interesting update, and you're right I've spent countless hours with your videos and Fusion. However adding .step export back isn't going to restore trust in Fusion and the future; and for hobbyist at maker spaces where even the hobbyist pay for machine time removing rapids is a deal breaker. The sum of changes still say throwing a fraction of the Fusion fee at FreeCAD will be a safer long term to avoid vendor lock-in when step files are removed again. So long and thanks for all the fish!
(Also "ka-ching"
is a bit of an unfortunate ambiguity given the circumstance :P)
Just give us a reasonable $9.99/month maker edition that would also allow for some commercial use, it's not that hard.
Excellent video Lars....I, for one, am staying and think Fusion 360 is awesome. The fact Autodesk put this out there and let people like me use it on a personal level is beyond gracious. Thank you and Autodesk for giving back to the community.
It's all calculated in. They get user base, they get community, people get knowledge... And hold and behold, it affects business owners also, attracting more commercial licenses.. and it's a great move. They did it well. But now they made a mistake. A lot of people will go away, myself included.
Also, for some that will stay will be impossible to learn everything in fusion anymore.
It's a sad year. Goodbye. I will miss it for sure and will use it occasionally, but I lost passion immediately and will try to migrate fully to something else.
Until now it was a win win situation and now it's loss loss for both sides. I am hundred percent sure.
@@GoranSkular I personally don't see it as a mistake. I respect your opinion but each Autodesk SBU has to stand on it's own, and they can't do that if they give their product away to everyone except businesses.
Like I said, it's a matter of opinion and I understand why they would need to do this.
As for me? It doesn't effect me all that much. I still use the software as they intended me to. While there are some features I can't use, I wasn't using them anyway, so the downside is minimal.
@@garywildgoose767 true, they know what they did. :) I am happy that I will be still able to open it from time to time and use it. Great product for sure. And it deserves to be monetized properly.
@@GoranSkular agree
I started learning Fusion 360 because of you .. Thank you very much .. I was astonished that a piece of software of this caliber was free to use.. I am unsure of how these changes will affect me , if at all.. I use fusion 360 to design items to be 3d printed.. Some have several components each.. I completely understand that Autodesk wants a little bit of separation between a true hobbyist and a commercial user.. I am positive that I could get by just fine with the personal license.. However.. I will go ahead and purchase a license .. Thank you Lars.. and Autodesk ....
HI Bud spent hours trying to learn FUSION 360 as you know, i built my CNC as a hobbyists and have never made money out of doing my hobby i work off shore in the oil industry that's what funds my hobby, you should of made it where you can only post so many codes, as a hobby working at weekends if you did 2 jobs that's 100 codes a year that's more than enough for most guys, if your using more than that you are making money i would say,
Autodesk should be investigated for monopolistic / antitrust behaviors by the FTC! Anyone remember when AD bought out 123D make? Yup integrated that free software then purged it from the users... How about scanning software that AD bought, again bought that out and then offered for free then closed it out in favor of super high cost Recap Pro! How about Autocad LT or Revit straight up purchasers? Nope! Maintenance plans? Nope we don't offer those anymore? Now you need to pay a monthly subscription fee that can be canceled at any moment for failure to pay or cost increases that are insane! All of these actions are illegal and the users are watching!! I have written to the FTC and everyone here should as well. I get they need to make money and I have personally and professionally supported them for over 20 years with software and trainings and just good PR. But really AD needs to understand if your going to buy out a free software, charge for it, and then cancel it because it is a competitor that is A MONOPOLY. Heck AD why not offer a personal enhanced version as suggested below for a low fee? I highly doubt that many people miss the simulation! But tool change and rapids - That's a kick in the teeth and will make every user HATE fusion 360 for simple things that should just work. Too much exclusionary conduct for this company!!! There's more but I am just sick and tired of writing.
If you need tool changes and rapids, then I can only assume you are using the software at least semi professional. Then buy the damn thing and stop moaning about the limitations of a free product.
@@MyTubeSVp Actually I totally get the fact they are making the rapids and the ATC in a paid version. Where I have problems is their relationship with their customers, we are simply just getting screwed around every other year one software is gone, or costs go thru the moon on another. I wish they would give some considerations to the face that a lot of us would gladly pay for Rapids and ATC but not at hundreds of dollars a year for something some of use barely use. Hundred sure, Hundreds No, Thousands GFY. I am a Hobby user of Fusion 360, I use Revit and Autocad professionally.
Eng_281_Sys_Des My guess is that, as soon as they open the door to abuse, tons of people will gladly abuse the low priced version for purposes it was not intended for. You can search a licensed user, and make arrangements for them to export your designs to what you need for a fee to be agreed upon. Or maybe AD could provide in these services by themselves.
@@MyTubeSVp Yes you are correct! As I noted I understand the logic of charging, but there are ways to put bookmarks on the uses, without carte blanche chopping the head off the snake. Good idea on AD adding it as a service! Heck I would pay for a per export fee for something like that. Maybe they could do credits like they used to do for rendering in the cloud? You get 25 credits etc etc.. cost 5 credits per ATC/TC export? There are ways to do it without just eliminating it entirely and not charging an arm and a leg for a subscription or yearly model. Just wait until next year when its $450 a year or $1000 in two?
It shouldn't be difficult to add a line for tool change or rapid speed,...UNLESS you do not have access to what you are writing the code for. hmmm
So what are you doing as a hobbyist that makes this such an issue?
I totally understand that Autodesk needs to monetize their investment in Fusion 360 and that the degree of misuse of the Personal License became to large to ignore. But I don't understand the strategy, at least not the pricing part. Why don't Autodesk make the options more granular than Free or Full Price? Maybe just a middel tier with more active projects, rapid moves and some other stuff for maybe a third of the normal price. Many of the young makers that frequents our facilities at FabLab RUC don't have the funds to pay full price but also only need some of the options, most of the not using any of the Autodesk cloud process time. Another possibility could be to make a stand-alone version without the cloud functionality for a one-time fixed price.
I'm very sure that nothing is set in stone, so maybe they will make new licenses if we continue asking them?
I guess things were just too good to be true. I would have never gotten into 3D design if it wasn't for 360. I just feel sort of ripped off as I spent hundreds of hours learning the software and diligently reporting all the many many bugs in the early days of the software. I guess Autodesk just used us as free beta testers to find bugs and polish their software. Not nice!
majdq8 And what exactly is your problem now ?
So what are you doing as a hobbyist that makes this such an issue?
Thanks for the explanation Lars! I've been a machinist for 20 years and a hobbyist user of fusion for a year or so. I got laid off in April and recently started working again in a machine shop that uses fusion as a cam and design software. Having a cheap/free, easy to learn software like fusion let me tinker on hobby stuff like 3d printing. It gave me a lot of good base skills. It also gave me enough experience to jump into a programming and design job when I wasn't expecting it. With the downturn in the economy, I could see a lot of machine shops out there making the switch from big dollar CAM and going over to fusion. It's very impressive for what it costs. For the price, I think it's an amazing software and I'm amazed that it's offered so cheap. It can do many things that other cam programs just can't. I think Autodesk has made a great product and I am only going to continue to use it more in the future.
Even if i understand the needs of Autodesk and intensions of this video in terms of communication, I think that the big asset that got broken here is trust. Beacuse when you spend time learning a software in the prospettive of an investment then suddenly and unilateraly things change, you won’t trust anymore. I guess that, beyond good intentions or anyway intensions of company which i fully respect, at the end this move will turn counter produtive for Autodesk. Trust of your users in your brand is the ASSET!
You explained it perfectly right. I trusted F360, i went so far as to buy a brand new machine and learn the ropes from the ground up. I am about 18months in, i absolutely can not afford 700 bucks a year. The stress this has all caused me far exceeds any value F360 would have ever brought into my business. I cannot continue forward with a company that says one thing then goes back on their word. When the changed to yearly license re-ups a few years ago the writing was on the wall. I should have ran then. Fusion thought we would all be so deeply invested in their junk software that we would HAVE to pay...Nope. Ill sell my machines before i get in bed with Fusion again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Lars, sorry but the removal of rapids kills fusion for hobbyists. If im routing a small 3d engraving or even a fretboard for a guitar. This take a run time of 2 hours to 8 hours. Going in and trying to find every rapid and edit it would be impossible on a 3d engraving. Couldnt they just limit rapid to 100ipm or something so we can still use it, but still slow for a production machine?
They took out rapids? wow
@@DennisJHarrisonJrHere yeah they did
@@DennisJHarrisonJrHere yup, not yet, but soon
@@45Concealed1911 I see they took out 3 axis CAM too, nice! No one uses that in their hobby projects 🙄 EDIT: I'm an idiot, it's still there.
@@DennisJHarrisonJrHere - No they didn't.
Thanks Lars for the video and all the work you have put into explaning Fusion 360 over the years, I have learned alot thanks to you, and explaining what is happening now is absolutly great in stead of listen to gossip. I hope you one day will come back with all your good tips and tricks.
Loved seeing the Boss. As an old man now I am having a ball learning something new. 10 years ago this was not possible for the man on the street. So many brilliant ideas are born in backyard sheds late at night. I a 3D printer which is great, if I can draw it I can 3D print it. So far still got L plates on with Fusion 360. Cheers from Australia
Lars, I am so glad you are back making new videos so you could explain the Fusion 360 changes. Like many of us, I have been following some threads on this subject, and I thought the updated personal version would still be fine for me and other hobby users like me. Your explanation confirmed this, and I am planning to continue to use Fusion 360 and follow your excellent instructional videos. Thank you for this update.
Autodesk has always been about the money. Good luck in the future.
th-cam.com/video/6JOITgw_T1Y/w-d-xo.html
I'm a hobbyist...The things is the recurring aspect of the subscribing... I bought Windows once and I get free update. I understand, a commercial license comes with special support but as I said... I'm a hobbyist... I dont need that bulletproof support. I'm willing to pay couples of hundred dollars, but be done with it. 380$ every year when I can be 2 to 6 months without touching My CNC or Plasma table or 3d printer is hard to justify... as a hobbyist I'm not using fusion360 365 days per year... I'll give it a try again but im considering switching to Freecad / Blender. if they start something right now, they will do the samething in a year or two and etc... I'm not sure I want to see this happenning...
This. Lars suggests going the paying route and honestly I'd consider it with its current price even though I'm a hobbyist and don't even spend that much time on this hobby... But the subscription model is just prohibitive.
EXCELLENT Explanation. You read my mind on all the little questions that no one seemed to 'get'. Thank you for making this video. Now I can sleep knowing my library of little projects isn't going to vanish in October. It's so good to have you back with us!
I use Fusion about once or twice a month for very small personal prints. I will not mind paying around $50/y, (I really do not expect it to be "free"), however $400/y translates to about R7000 in my currency which is very steep for something I hardly use.
They are trying hard to make it sound like it's not a big deal for the maker community. It's a HUGE deal. I respect their decision to monetize more users, they are running a business after all. I have closed my account and have moved on to FreeCAD, which is just as powerful. I wish I hadn't spent all time learning Fusion360.
Thank you for taking so much of your time to make the videos. I realize you are doing this out of the kindness of your heart, and no matter what happens in the future I will always be grateful for the valuable lessons.
Thanks you so much for this video and also thank you to Autodesk for keeping Step export in the free version. Creating 3D step models and using them inside KiCad was the reason why I started using Fusion 360 in the first place. Then I realized it's such a fun hobby and I got myself a 3d printer :-)
I'm a hobbyist running a really basic manual milling machine that I've converted to CNC, and I generally have to babysit it, and make sure that chips aren't building up, etc.
Because It's fairly low powered, and doesn't have a really high spindle speed, I'm often cutting quite slowly to get an appropriate chip load, and am using mostly conventional milling, since the lead screws have a bit of backlash, so even facing a surface is near half rapids, and will be _way_ slower now.
I've always been bothered by putting work into a piece of software that relies on the cloud, and which I can't keep using if Autodesk decides to change my license, or someday discontinues fusion. (instead of just running off of the latest released version)
This is just an example of how it happens, and my past work becomes unusable.
I'm out.
I for one, I am an older retired adult. I have no reason or purpose to "commercialize" anything. I use Fusion 360 in a limited way. However, I have created many , many projects while learning. I do save these files "to the cloud" I guess. I save them because in 1, 2, 3, months I will not remember how I did some things or how I used a "feature." So, in some cases I re-open an old saved project in the hopes that it will jog my memory. My main reason(s) for starting using fusion 360, was 3D printing, and my personal opinion that "learning new things," helps stave off dementia{for the brain to think outside the box?), also it helps staves off some boredom in the winter months. In many cases, I think Fusion 360 is above my abilities but I keep trying. Although I worked in engineering, mechanical activities were always beyond my abilities (electronics /engineering that is a different story). Fusion 360 has in some regards, helped me to address some of those short-comings. So as long as my above uses are not overly restricted I guess I will continue plugging away in fusion 360. I do not, nor will I ever have enough money to purchase a "standard license" or any license that renews on a yearly basis. Thank you for the videos, I have watched many of them when I get stuck. I also watch videos from several others.
Thanks for the clarification, sir! Also: what brand/model of CNC is that over your right shoulder?
This is the video the community needed. Thank you! Looking forward to hearing more details...
Great update. Thank you and thanks to Steve for taking the time to reach out. I appreciate Autodesk supporting the maker community and rethinking their support of STEP going forward. This makes me feel better about the new restrictions. I intend to stay with Fusion360 for personal use. Humans have a strong reaction to perceived loss and I have some of that going on, however I cannot find fault with Autodesk's decision and changes.
Thanks Lars, I find these changes complety reasonable.
when I got my 3D printer it was suggested to me by numerous people to get the personal version of fusion. I did and when I asked for some good video's on how to use it your name came up instantly and consistently. I'm having a great time watching your video's and modeling the things you have.
Thank you for the clarification of the changes. I wasn't 100% clear on them, and your video has helped a lot.
Fusion360 DID get many into CAD and 3D Printing.
Some Hobbyists would have found the 3D CAD freeware, cumbersome, if not insurmountable (from our Maker Space-3d printers direct experiences)
We all knew that a program which requires net-connection, and constant updates, was designed for a subscription model from the start.
Thanks to Fusion360, it will be MUCH easier to teach FreeCAD (for example) to people who have previously learned Fusion360 for their 3d printers.
I use AutoCAD daily in my professional life. I am learning Fusion 360 to use for my hobbies (CNC & 3D Printing). Most of what I make as a hobbyist is donated to be used to raise money for charities and non-profits. I am perplexed by how many negative comments I've read on this topic. It seems to all come back to the "no good deed goes unpunished" philosophy. There are many companies that make products that could be utilized by hobbyists in a scaled down version who DON'T offer a free or affordable layman's version of their product. Autodesk does in the form of Fusion 360. I am thankful for that. It has allowed me to do SOOO many things that I would have otherwise not been able to do without shelling out a ridiculous amount of money (just to support my hobbies). Okay, now they are taking away a small part of the functionality to distinguish between the true hobbyist and the cheaters. That is a MUCH better solution than what they could have done... and what some other companies have done when facing similar situations. This program isn't an entitlement or right... it's a gift. I'm thankful to have it.
Agree with you, but the biggest failure here is their abysmal descriptions of what the restrictions are. "Simulation" I took to mean tool path visibility in the CAM environment. And even with Lar's video here (which I very much appreciate), the print and active projects stuff is still confusing.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one of the most common file sharing types for 3d files is, you know, common. You should have seen that taking away STEP files was a mistake waaaaaay before you did it.
After 25 years of dealing on and off with Autodesk as a Hobbyist, both in the game and Cad worlds, this is the typical bullshit they pull to force sales. It started when they bought Maya, and they are just digging as deep as they can to find new ways to pull this.
How much do you give away of things you spent millions developing? Did you really comment this and mean it?
@@garywildgoose767 Spent millions, made billions. Come on, don't be a goose.
@@garywildgoose767 Ya I mean it. Free is not the issue that's just the latest trick in the arsenal. I would pay for a hobby license, maybe a 2-3 hundred a year but that won't be the case. I will invest my time and effort learning and using it then next year it will be 4-5 hundred cause they know you become more dependent on your tools as time goes along. They always regress to greed. I am farmer who builds and maintains my farming equipment, how much am I expected to pay today, tomorrow next year, just to do that? You tell me...
@@Resignandreset this entitlement culture is just shocking to me. The fact people think they are entitled to something they didn't produce, dont own and had no hand in creating is mind boggling. Then when a "for profit" company restricts a little bit of usage, they are called out as tyrants...I just dont get it. Perhaps if you worked for Autodesk and your year end bonus counted on turning a profit, you would think differently, but perhaps not. You would probably shrug your shoulders and demand your bonus anyway because you're entitled...which is why you don't work there in the first place and are left out here in the cold complaining.
@@Resignandreset that's what businesses do....make profit...not getting the entitlement thing you have going on here
wondering what pocket-nc hobbyist will do?.... and the folks who brought a 4th axis to their hobby mill cnc?....on a personal note I want to say thank you to you Lars and Fusion 360, going to continue using Fusion 360, will miss the rapids in my tool paths, but nothing I can't do in a text editor :-)
Hi Lars, thanks for this video, and thanks too for all those excellent videos which have helped me learn a new hobby at the age of 70. I now teach my grandchildren 360 and hope they follow on.
I appreciate the comments from Autocad management. He stressed the need for separation, which is completely understandable, we are in a commercial world.
However, as with Microsoft, what you give away comes back as profit as eventually your products become ubiquitous in the marketplace and an essential part of an aspiring C.V. This is to the benefit though of folk like me who find 360 inspirational.
What doesn't fit though with your interview is the fact that I am continually bombarded by Autocad with email and notifications to upgrade to the commercial verion. There is also a subliminal message in these communications which suggest I will lose out if I dont comply...' the clock is ticking'
Ok, I'm going to trust you and the top man and continue with 360, it is a fabulous product and its is free for hobbyists but please pass this on to the marketing team to wind down the fear factor they have introduced.
I'm not sure it will work in your case but I would suggest unsubscribing to emails from Autodesk the next time you receive one. I don't get any such emails from them. Best of luck.
Thank you for this clarification, I will continue following your lessons.
I am new to Fusion 360, literally less than a week! I have been using Solidworks for a very long time but don't have access to it right now. I don't understand the active documents comment. What do I have to do to make a document archived? Is it as simple as closing it out from the top open documents tabs, or do I need to go into a separate location to activate and archive a document?
The thing is that Autodesk became relevant again and leveraged the community in the recent years thanks to a philosophy of a few people that are obviously not in the company anymore.
The thing is that Autodesk forced the hand of its competitors to come closer to that philosophy and now you are distancing yourselves from it.
You are being complacent and trying to milk the gains of the past few years.
And you will inevitably go back to the Autodesk of the '90s. Because you moved the goalpost and now that everyone is aiming for that you're going the other way. But people do have alternatives now and you are just giving the alternatives the chance to get the crucial community support to grow.
P.S. I sincerely hope I am looking at this wrong. Because I was an Autodesk fanboy and telling everyone that they need to support this visionary company. And of course you understand that I'm now being called gullible.
I've learned everything at home and I told to my boss about Fusion about 6 months ago. These changes felt kinda like a slap in the face. Well I guess I can still keep full feature set by using my working license at home. But I'd really like to keep things absolutely separated. But anyway, full feature set is what has kept my interest in Fusion. Luckily they bring back that file conversion. That's major deal for everyone. Just today friend had drawn part to machine at some wood working workshop with cnc and he asked me if I could convert his step file to dxf that he wouldn't have to pay ridiculous conversion fees to workshop operator. Did that in Fusion and I'll be really pissed off if this feature is taken away. It's the absolute basic function that is needed, period.
@@jothain This is exactly my situation. I started with F360 a few years ago and my work bought a seat for me. As the company grew, it bought more and more seats. I kept my personal version in order to keep things separate and for my use at the Makerspace I'm a member at. Removing rapids, dxf export, step export (now reversed) makes the personal license close to useless for my hobby needs.
If they could remove these features today, they can remove more next year. It's time for me to take a serious look at FreeCAD.
@@ScottWalde Yeah. I've been afraid that this personally wonderful free version of Fusion will cease to exist. I've also used FreeCAD to keep some very basic skills with it and I'll keep this on as nobody knows, I might not have that luxury of my employers Fusion license in future. Better to have so fail-safe for future. FreeCAD is actually really nice feature wise. Unfortunately it's UI needs a lot of love. But anyway really useful failsafe anyway if get around it's UI.
Like so many others I'll be switching to freecad and maybe investigate blender, fusion is a great product, but I wish I hadn't invested many many hours learning it now. I suspect that they'll continue to increase the number of limited features for free users, it would be far better if they tried to find a different way to charge for those specific features (charge a small amount for the option of using a currently limited feature 25 times, 50 times, 100 times, 300 times etc... whatever numbers. This would enable them to earn some money from hobbyists, many of whom are willing to spend *some* money, but make it so people using it for a business are better off getting a standard licence) and added some cast iron guarantees about their commitment to hobbyists. Autodesk knows very well that it's beneficial for them to keep hobbyists on their side, more people familiar with the software directly translates into more sales, that's why education editions of software exist.
So I had hoped to make something on my little CNC 4 axis every couple months. Turning a pencil holder, or small totem carvings etc. It looks like that is not possible in this SW... Any alternatives for 4 axis simulation for casual hobbyists?
I was about to purchase a 4 axis CNC router for hobby use before retiring in a few yrs, now that is on hold.
Been learning drawing with you 'Lars Christensen' for many hours, months, and was about to transition into more CAM practice. Been a CNC Machinist 40+ yrs, used Autocad, Solidworks, Catia, and the free Solidedge 2D that's always been there for me. I knew not to trust AutoDesk, but DAM, it was so tempting !! This was too good to be true, and it was not true. NOW I FEEL VIOLATED !! because we were used as guinea pigs to debug the software on our time, for them, for free, not for us to keep using. The Hobbyist version will end and the excuse will be " We could not control the abuse ".
But you Lars are a wonderful person and I Greatly appreciate your training vids, Good Luck...
I see an opportunity in this announcement, lets face it Fusion 360 is what it is because of the comments and feedback freely given by the hobbiest community, if Freecad is open to these comments with the view to make a truly open source product that can go head to head with the likes of Fusion 360 then we all gain. we will need Lars to create the fantastic content on how to get the best out of Freecad. Everyones a winner
@Barry ManilowaI missed that point, explains a lot doesn't it. A sort of 3 line whip to get him to come out and explain Autodesks position. Purely a damage limitation exercise.
As a hobbyist, I have been using Fusion for almost a year now. The fact that this software has been available completely free for home use has amazed me since day one. NOBODY offers free full-featured software like this, it's always a crippled or limited version. There's absolutely no doubt many people are using it for profit and not paying the licensing fee. I hope the changes don't affect what I use it for, and I totally respect their decision to make these changes.
Hi Lars,
Thx for your clarification.
Is it possible, to get to know how archiving and recalling as an active projekt has to be done?
It is not so easy to find out.
Regards from Germany
Andreas
Not sure about the rapid thing (g0) . Is that any time it moves the cutter when not cutting material? Eg between every pass of and adaptive 3D cut? If so is it easy to spot those and edit them back to g0?
"Is that any time it moves the cutter when not cutting material?" - Yes
"If so is it easy to spot those and edit them back to g0?" - No...and that's why Autodesk did it and removed them.
Fun fact: (Semi-)professional machines which are capable of high cutting speeds are much more less affected than low-end machines with their slow cutting speeds which are used by hobbyist, using Fusion360 g-code on them now lasts forever. Well done, Autodesk...
@@paulpahl1607 well I’ll find out the impact soon as I am cutting a bunch of maple tops soon. Having said that my cutting speeds are generally around 2500mm/min so may be ok
It all makes sense until AD decided to remove the Rapids and Tool change G-code items. The logic is flawed if the position is taken that a hobbyist has all the time in the world so hobbling their equipment by slowing down their machine is acceptable. In fact, I would argue that for a hobbyist, their time allowed to pursue their hobby is even MORE limited than a production facility. I don't get the entire work week to pursue my interests. The second flaw I see here is the lack of consideration for the effort, money and some might say pride that a hobbyists take in the capability of their machine. Having their software of choice (and I agree it is a choice) negate these things is more of a personal affront. The third and final thing I will note is that the software industries move to a recurring revenue model, although good for them, is almost always not acceptable to a hobbyist. When you put that recurring dollar in the expense column of your balance sheet, it gets a lot more dis-tasteful. Again, even worse for a hobbyist. Give me a one-time cost option that doesn't upgrade, doesn't have all the fancy cloud, share stuff. Fine. But when I have to justify spending money year after year when I might only use it 4 or 5 times, is a non starter. I don't want to lease, I want to buy. Thanks Lars. Appreciate the time. ~P
Hi Lars,
A little ticked off about the save as .pdf option that I no longer have as a hobbiest... was nice to print out and bring to my garage workshop to work on woodworking projects...when they called me a few months back, they did not say that that would be a change.
Thank you for an excellent clarification! Hopefully it'll trickle down and quiet those screaming in pain - yes, some have expressed these changes as if their firstborn was being taken away.
THANK YOU, Lars. I appreciate the video. The clarification. Your opinion as well.
The new limit on export types will stop my Fusion journey cold. These changes also make me reconsider my commitment to any Autodesk products... you giveth and boy, do you ever taketh away!
Get over yourself.
It's the usual pattern, like what Sonos did:
1) announce something that's bad for the community
2) there is backlash from the community
3) based on how much backlash there is: a) take it back completely, or b) change it to something a bit less bad
4) community pats itself on the shoulder for having prevented it
Thank you Lars, thank you Steve for the open and frank discussion, and thank you Autodesk for listening to the community and putting STEP back in :) If you ever make it to the South West of England, I'll gladly buy you a beer ;)
Thank you Lars! Best information on this matter yet. Too many maker YT'ers jumping on the doom and gloom bandwagon. I hope people appreciate this software for what it, the best model designing software available at any price. That we are allowed to use it for free is a blessing. Thank you.