Lol well not exactly. Bane himself approved of minions and servants, say those at the Inquisitor level. But only one true apprentice to learn everything the dark side had to offer.
That, and of course due to them having Inherited that trait from the Jedi to begin with. Both orders regularly fuck themselves just as often, if not more so, as they fuck each other.
The flaw in the rule of two is especially seen in Sidious himself. He never trained any of his apprentices to truly surpass him. He always purposefully kept them weaker and less knowledgeable than he.
yep and that's problem with dark side user. If realized if powerful enough on your own then you do not want to train a challenger. to when in power the rule of two becomes the rule of one.
Sith philosophy as a whole is just doomed to fail, the backstabbing, infighting and just overwhelming ruthlessness were always going to be their downfall.
@Muffinconsumer4 but not every animal is trying to tear each other apart, many animals would happily leave each other alone and get on with their lives rather then always striving for to be better then everyone else, it's a fight for survival not dominance.
You can say the same of the Jedi, both are equally flawed and serve their individual purpose to bring peace to and unity of a light and dark to the Galaxy.
@@allknowingfreddybear9291 They are not equally flawed, they are both flawed yes but the Sith ideals is rooted in domination, subjugation and overall xenophobia. The Jedi are emotionally suppressed, fanatical and uncompromising in their views but they are rooted in actually trying to improve the lives of their citizens. That's why the Jedi always win in the end.
@Muffinconsumer4 you're comparing a organisation that's doomed to fail because it encourages in-fighting while the animal kingdom is mostly survival of the fittest but doesn't result in self destruction
“ If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters”.
Kreia compared the ancient sith to the ones around her time, not the banite sith. She very well might have something different to say by about plagueis or palps had she been around to see them.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 hell she had Darth nihilus in her time mfer went full on Galactus eating planets, now if you're talking about the power of stealth and subterfuge on papa Palps end of things then eh maybe? but just straight up capital P POWA! Definitely the ancient Sith
@@Cyrus-rodn45 Sidious has shown in what's now not cannon that he is a master at manipulation and "did" have the power to force lightening your ass half way across a system but he was and is woefully weak compared to some of the power house lords in the ancient empire
I think the rule of two worked only in the sense of keeping the Sith alive until the fall of the Jedi. At that point Palpatine should have started bringing the Sith back, revealing them as a new type of Jedi that will ensure the peace better than what the old Jedi have ever done instead of just having a handful of dark side adept be his inquisitors.
Sounds like what some ideas about Count Dooku's vision of what would happen after the Sith Grand Plan was realized (with him never realizing Sidious was grooming Anakin to replace him until it was too late).
@@Kevin-zz9du sidious isn't stupid he probably has plans if that ever happened what are a few sith gonna do against many star destroyers and vader an absolute monster with both lightsaber and raw force power? Not to mention sidious hoards knowledge so they would never become stronger than either of them
@@neilstone4529Inquisitors were a great idea, after taking down a master or failing into do it you take your most powerful Inquisitor as an apprentice and appoint the second strongest as the replacement to Grand Inquisitor then the wheel spins again in a cicle
Like many things in Star Wars, the rule of two was created by Lucas when TPM came out. It was to explain why there weren’t any other Sith mentioned during the OT.
Sometimes I think it would've been much better to Remake the entire Origina Trilogy to adapt in a much better way all the Lore and Consequences that the Precuels had to offer in the Galaxy Timeline.
I've always wondered how Star Wars rule of 2. Would compare to Afro samurai's number one and number 2( Anyone can challenge number 2, only number 2 can challenge number one).
"Bane was sitting cross-legged on the stone floor of the central chamber on the Rakatan Temple's uppermost floor. He was meditating on Revan's words as he had often done between the Holocron's lessons. Now that the artifact was gone, it was even more important to contemplate what he had learned about the nature of the dark side . . . and the path it would lead him down. By its very nature, the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. The constant battling of the Sith since the beginning of recorded history served a necessary purpose: it kept the power of the dark side concentrated in a few powerful individuals. The Brotherhood had changed all that. There were now a hundred or more Dark Lords following Kaan, but most were weak and inferior. The Sith numbers were greater than they had ever been, yet they were still losing the war against the Jedi. The power of the dark side cannot be dispersed among the masses. It must be concentrated in the few who are worthy of the honor. The strength of numbers was a trap . . . one that had snared all the great Sith Lords who had come before. Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan: each had been powerful. Each had drawn disciples in, teaching them the ways of the dark side. Each had assembled an army of followers and unleashed them against the Jedi. Yet in each and every case the servants of light had prevailed. The Jedi would always remain united in their cause. The Sith would always be brought low by infighting and betrayals. The very traits that drove them to individual greatness and glory-the unrelenting ambition, the insatiable hunger for power-would ultimately doom them as a whole. This was the inescapable paradox of the Sith. Kaan had tried to solve the problem by making everyone equal in the Brotherhood. But his solution was flawed. It showed no understanding of the real problem. No understanding of the true nature of the dark side. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If all are equal, then none is strong. Yet whoever rose from the swollen and bloated ranks of the Sith to claim the mantle of Dark Lord would never be able to hold it. In time the apprentices will unite their strength and overthrow the Master. It is inevitable. Together the weak would overwhelm the strong in a gross perversion of the natural order. But there was another solution. A way to break the endless cycle dragging the Sith down. Bane understood that now. At first he had thought the answer might be to replace the order of the Sith with a single, all-powerful Dark Lord. No other Masters. No apprentices. Just one vessel to contain all the knowledge and power of the dark side. But he had quickly dismissed the idea. Eventually even a Dark Lord would wither and die; all the knowledge of the Sith would be lost. If the leader grows weak, another must rise to seize the mantle. One alone would never work. But if the Sith numbered exactly two . . Minions and servants could be drawn in to the service of the dark side by the temptation of power. They could be given small tastes of what it offered, as an owner might share morsels from the table with his faithful curs. In the end, however, there could be only one true Sith Master. And to serve this Master, there could be only one true apprentice. Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it. The Rule of Two. This was the knowledge that would lead the dark side into a new age. A revelation that would bring an end to the infighting that had defined the order for a thousand generations. The Sith would be reborn, the new ways would be swept away-and Bane would be the one to do it. " - Darth Bane: Path to Destruction
The problem was there were too few Sith to live on and so much banking on it’s success. If a freak accident happened or they get discovered early then bam it over. Besides it did it job. A modern Sith Order should have been made like it’s older incarnations.
Finally, someone gets it. The sith definitely had some problems to work through, but lowering their numbers to literally two selfish and conceited sith destroys any and all potential merits. It failed, over, and over, and over. They were nearly wiped out time after time, they lost centuries of knowledge and progress at least twice, once because the 'dark lord' just up and decided he wasn't about that life. And when they finally 'succeeded', it was for all of two decades, after a thousand years and a hundred plus generations of planning. Worst of all, when they did it wasn't because their plan worked, and they'd just gotten that powerful. It was because the Jedi's plan didn't, making them grow weak and complacent. They didn't defeat the Jedi, the Jedi hung themselves from their ivory tower, making mistake after mistake. The rule of two sith didn't succeed, they just messed up slightly less than the jedi order.
Well, yeah, honestly there’s no better way to put that. I feel like if any order tried that tactic against another and waited for them to grow weak and complacent, of course they’d most likely pull off some kind of victory.
I wouldn't downplay the rule of two like that. Although it wasn't a major success i wouldn't say they only succeeded because the jedi became complacent. The jedi hadn't changed much from the time of the old republic. In fact, they were arguably worse during kotor 2 and swtor than they were during the clone wars era. The tcw jedi participated in wars and got overconfident, but the older order more or less ignored all the major conflicts in the galaxy and did nothing. The brotherhood of darkness would have been the greatest order if it wasn't for Bane interfering.
@@yggunshot8402 The rule of two was so objectively bad as an idea, that there are many fans that theorize it was a long term plan by revan to destroy the sith. Yeah. That's how bad it was. I don't need to downplay it. Bane screwed up really bad. By the time the era of sidious rolled around, the sith were far from stronger. So much Knowledge was lost, and with incidents like the gravid one, it brings into question whether the rule of two sith were even potentially stronger than their predecessors. Of the rule of two sith we've been made aware of, a grand total of two actually beat their masters in a straight fight.. and one is a bit up in the air about who actually survived. Everyone else, the vast majority, used deception and/or help to get the job done. Example: sidious is said to be the greatest of the sith, but even he feared a direct confrontation with his master, and chose to trick him instead. Speaking of his master, I believe plageuis killed tenebrous by dropping a cave on his head in an ambush? Really brings into question if the sith got stronger at all.
@@5stargrim The idea that you must actually kill your master in a fair fight in order to usurp them as the new rot master is silly. Surpassing your master through cunning and/or intellect is just as effective. If you were so weak so as to leave yourself vulnerable, you probably weren't a safe bet for the rule of two anyway. In fact, the rot sith won by being smart and manipulative, not by conquest which had failed countless times and amounted to nothing significant. Sure, you could argue that Gravid set the sith back power-wise, but it doesn't change the fact that they got better at manipulation which is all that really mattered. In that sense, you can see how one dimensional Bane's line of thinking was. As if it mattered how powerful an individual force user got, or how knowledgeable they were. Now, as I previously established, the jedi hasn't gotten worse since the time of the old republic, they were actually much better. Perhaps more arrogant, but actually pragmatic for a change. The old republic jedi once agreed to a peace treaty with the sith empire (already a dumb move) only to have their temple sacked as well as coruscant bombed and subsequently captured... While they were on Alderaan having negotiations with Darth Baras. That is about how effective they were. The prequel era jedi are obviously far superior and the sith one-upping them is easily a better accomplishment. Generally the jedi before they "lost their way" so to speak, refers to the jedi from the dawn of the jedi era, not the old republic.
@@yggunshot8402 The only problem with that is that new republic era Jedi were undoubtedly by far weaker on average than Jedi of the old republic era. I'd argue that was the sole success of the rule of two, by taking away their only real enemy, the Jedi grew weak and complacent. That as an idea is nice, until you remember that Bane's idea for doing that was to hard reset and have two dudes carry the sith to victory with practically zero help (and what help they did have, went against the rule of two) just assuming that each and every master would choose/train their apprentices well, and that each apprentice would truly surpass their master. They didn't. Also, you day that the idea of them having to beat their master in a fair fight is ridiculous, but that's exactly what bane wanted from zannah when he made the rule. Literally that was his whole idea; using trickery, numbers and deception to defeat far more powerful sith was the *whole* problem he was trying to fix with the rule of two. He even nearly gave up on the rule of two several times, himself. Even in his final moments, he opted to try to take over zannah's body with essence transfer and continue his reign. Every other rule of two era sith also disagreed with or outright disregarded the rule of two, so yeah. Even in universe practicing members aren't big fans of it; I don't really need to downplay it. It was a dumb idea and even bane knew it.
It's just a retcon to explain why they were absent from the OT. I find it kinda funny though that some people talk about it like it's the most genius idea ever when its just a patch for a plothole and also failed terribly in universe. Hilarious to think about all the Dark Lords of the Sith that canonically sat around doing absolutely nothing their whole lives because of this
I really believe the Rule of Two is stupid and that the master can never be succeeded by their apprentice. It is almost impossible for an apprentice to become more powerful and knowledgeable than the master that teaches them these things. There is no point when an ever learning master is no longer useful. The only way it can work is if the master grows stale and stuck in their ways, which never happens due to their ambitions. Additionally when this does happen, often times the Master is betrayed instead of challenged which is likely the reason why so much knowledge is lost. It goes to show that an apprentice simply cannot defeat their master in fairness, so they are forced to betray their masters in a lust for themselves power that they are denying themselves by eliminating an asset. If they were to work together to further their goals true power can be obtained!
I always thought the same thing because it happens a lot in TV shows. And movies and real life. Imagine if a master and apprentice fought each other. And they both killed each other almost at the exact same time, just like that, it would be over.
I never thought the secret of immortality ever existed. I assumed it was a ploy of palpatine to sway Anakin to the dark side. Ultimately at the end of revenge of the sith you see how Anakins fixation on padme choked the life out of her or his anger stole her life force in order to survive
And yet Bane's dynasty was litterally the ones to accomplish what every other Sith had failed: Toppling the Republic and Jedi. Litterally Bane was a part of the Sith Order when it had its largest numbers in recorded history, he was well aware of the benefits and disadvantages of having multiple Sith.
@@AbsurdFalcon Victory is pointless if there's no one left to celebrate. Bane saw fit to sacrifice an entire Empire of Sith controlling major parts of the know galaxy for a risky, uncertain plan to hide among the Jedi and maybe, just maybe rise to power centuries later based on the assumption that the Jedi wouldn't sense the Dark Side among them. Yeah, no I'm with the Sith Order here. And did he solve the problems the Sith had? Absolutely not.
@@Mediados It did solve the problems with the sith. The victory wasn't pointless because the entire point of the darkside is it doesnt glorify strength of numbers, it is entirely about personal power. His plan was uncertain but even with over 20000 Sith Lords, Kaan was still loosing the war in the end. Strength of numbers has never worked for the sith, every single time it has failed. Bane's change to the Rule of Two was built upon a deep understanding of Sith History and directly inspired by the teachings of Darth Revan. It doesnt matter if there arent others to celebrate, Bane's plan succeded where every Sith Empire failed. It was far less risky then you give it credit for, the Sith ensured that they were believed to be dead. They operated for 1000 years unchallenged in the shadows building power and strength. Say whatever you want about the Rule of Two, it succeded in toppling the Jedi and Republic. Something that Revan, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Vitiate, and Kaan all failed at.
Not to mention that at the time Bane destroyed the Brotherhood, they didn't have control of any major parts of the Galaxy. Kaan rerouted all of his forces to Ruusan to defeat the Army of Light and take the Jedi out of the war. They lost all of their territory in the process, which is why the war ended once the Brotherhood died on Ruusan. Kaan sacrificed all of their territory to take out the Jedi from the war, reasoning that they could regroup and build once they eliminate the Jedi, and steamroll the republic with the combined power of their soldiers and and the remaining Sith. Bane didn't sacrifice anything, he lept off a sinking ship.
if the rule of 2 was a "bad Idea", then why were they able to successfully have complete control of the galaxy? They had so much power that they were able to almost wipe out the jedi to the point of extinction for some time. The Sith always worked better when they were in the shadows. Unseen, hidden, never truly revealing themselves to the galaxy until episode 1. Even if things turned around for the worst for them, it still was a successful plan
Everyone can criticize anything about the rule of Two, but it's this rule that saved the sith and brought everything to its knees. For this modern era, the rule of two was essential and from those criticals the rule can be more powerful
One of my buddies and I had a discussion about the Sith Doctrine and we had decided on Feudalism to be the best way for the Sith to actually cultivate their power. It would stop the greater portion of Lords from killing each other and prioritize the Sith Empire/Order to expand to carve out territory and so on.
The sith was plagued by infighting n betrayal..... the whole purpose of the rule of two was so that the master teaches the apprentice n when he has no more to teach then apprentice kills him and take the knowledge and then take an apprentice.
@@Cyrus-rodn45 Right, but accidents happen and Sith Treachery would only have one target under the rule of two. Logistically speaking it's a bad move even before you remember that (if I remember correctly, anyway) the Sith of that Era didn't write jack down to pass on. Apparently is doesn't matter in the new canon, if what I'm reading is true. Since you seem to absorb your master's soul and the souls of all the Banites after killing your Sith Master in the Rule of Two. It's a fun thought experiment though.
I always thought that the force had to maintain a certain amount of dark and light side spirt in the galaxy. So the dark side spirt would be more stronger if only split amongst two instead of 2000
The rule of 2 made most sense for the sith.... because the sith empire was plagued with in fighting for betrayal is the way of the sith. The rule of 2 made the sith most dangerous because the master always had to be aware of the apprentice who would back stabbing
That’s dumb. And completely incorrect factually. At no point were the rule of two Sith stronger than the sith empire. With the brief exception of the 19 year old Galactic Empire period.
@@Cyrus-rodn45 The rule of 2 was created to force the Sith to either get stronger or vanish completely. It’s goal was to stop the infighting and power struggles. But as the video points out, all it did was guarantee the infighting. And it didn’t guarantee the strongest Sith actually won. As the *video* pointed out. Alongside a wide array of other issues. Not sure what your trying to get at, asking me if I even know why was it was created, yet you yourself answer that question in your main comment. Yet all your showing is that you didn’t watch the video.
@@attika3145 Remember that the sith only won through trickery and politics and never through power in the force. Most jedi were killed by clones and non force sensitive military.
Every rule anyone comes up with us foolish in one way or another, the way we decide weather it's good or not, is weather it will last, and it's results. There is no such thing as the perfect rule. There will always be backlash to everything.
The problem with the Sith philosophy of “freedom” is that it cares only for the individual’s freedom ‘to’ act as they please, ‘to’ impose their will on others. However, it cares nothing for their freedom ‘from,’ their freedom ‘from’ violence, ‘from’ others imposing their wills upon them, freedoms which basic social structures provide, and allow people to go about life without the need to constantly defend themselves. This leaves them paranoid, constantly in fear of usurpation, or of their master’s cruel whims. Unable to truly free themselves, as they are now a slave to fear and suspicion.
yep the problem with Sith code that fully embracing the dark side means no freedom yep for the leader. Every Sith Lord craves to control others because they crave power. this create problem that Sith order can be stable. other dark side orders would not full embrace the dark side and practice restraint. How ever the Sith would view these orders as weaker because they make room for compassion.
All Sith are free, they don't need someone to give them freedom or there is no way to take someone's freedom. All great Sith realize at the onset of their greatness, that they became great because they realized their power of choice is always under their own command, and don't need permission or unnecessary restrictions on others to be able to enjoy their freedom. Unnecessary frictions and restrictions like not being able impose ones will on others would undermine the philosophy of the Sith, which means, to desire to seek domination above all else so that the claimant or aspirant can create their own reality. That potential for greater power is undermined by arbitrary restrictions. True discipline is to control what can is within our power of choice, and don't try to control what is outside of our power of choice. Learning that distinction prevents one from either weakening oneself in what one can reasonable accomplish or creating an overly flattering view of oneself, to avoid having self-flattery and hubris which can undermine an order. This is just one aspect of discipline really, and all Sith should be aware of and focus on what they can control; their opinions, pursuits, desire, aversion and in a nutshell, their actions, and what they cannot control; property, death, disability, reputation, and command from high office, in a nutshell, that which concerns people. Trying to control the latter will just make one miserable and make mistakes after mistakes.
Honestly, Palpatine's Dark Empire is the only way I see the Sith working. If literally every single piece of his empire is connected via the dark side to himself, like a proto-hivemind, then It's literally a "Rule of One". And It's not impossible to make at all, Vitiate could have acomplished something like that if he wasn't having delusional internal conflicts about his existance and potential godhood.
I don't believe there was an issue with Darth Bane's Rule of Two. If you really break it down, both sides sith/jedi lost most knowledge of force abilities over the years through war, theft, etc... I honestly put most the blame for the failure of the Sith on Sidious. He not only killed his master who had just started to truly unlock immortality (for the third time that I'm aware of in the history of the sith) but also he chose an apprentice who was first a Jedi. Historically that was frowned upon because they weren't raised as TRUE sith from a young age. Which left them susceptible to be brought back to the light side. Sidious always came off to me as someone who was overly confident and lacking the true patience and wisdom it takes to be a Sith master.
Hot take, if the Sith actually kept trying to get stronger they would have won. They had the idea that the student beats the master to be stronger, which is a silly idea. The master is no longer trying to learn because he sees himself as the most powerful, so he needs to teach someone effectively capping themselves instead of being eternal learners with fellow students.
Rule of 2 works for me because all the normal infighting of Sith that prevented them from winning for thousands of years would be eliminated. However, the rule of two did leave the Sith vulnerable and was contradictory at its core. The whole thing was designed to strengthen the Sith as a whole. Why would a Sith Lord even care about preserving the Sith. The dark side and sith philosophy is one of base selfishness and a list for power. Most individuals dedicated to the dark would be so selfish and power hungry, I can't see them doing anything for the good of others.
I mean Marka Ragnos rule lasted 100 years with far less territory then the Empire. Naga Sadows rule lasted 1 year. Vitiate's empire was in a small sector of space for over 300 years before the Galactic War in SWTOR and even then his empire failed to conquer as much territory as the Galactic Empire and fell apart within roughly 50 years of achieving it.
@@AbsurdFalcon it doesn’t really matter how much territory you rule if can’t keep it. The sith was better off building there forces until the republic grew weak
@@elijah-e4n The territory only lasted for a short time, it took less then a year for Marka Ragnos empire to fall after his death. The Sith Empire that spent hundreds of years forming was crushed within a year of conflict within the republic. Besides this, the Sith’s numbers during Bane’s time were larger then they ever had been before, and they were still losing to the Republic. Building numbers doesn’t work for the Sith because they will always shoot themselves in the foot with betrayals and struggle for power.
The rule of 2 was flawed because darth bane foolishly believed that the sith a vindictive,greedy,power-hungry organization wouldnt be greedy powerhungry and vindictive i would argue the only reason the sith won wasnt because the rule of 2 was some secret unlocking of power to overule the jedi is that the jedi werent really trained for sith i mean they hadnt fought the sith in 1000s of years and all their training was just a multi millenia game of telephone being trained more for blasterfire then sith saber techniques and tricks
The Rule of Two was interesting as a thematic decision that had its ups and downs, but I much rather the Sith armies of the Old Republic in terms of appeal. I think at the end of the day, Sith philosophy was flawed. They were too traitorous and willing to backstab and kill each other for any real progress to be made. Heck, they probably stopped themselves from taking over the galaxy way more than the Jedi ever did. They were powerful, but always doomed to collapse due infighting. If they could have managed to a more loyal, disciplined, and reliable hierarchy while still maintain their ambition and ferocity, they may have very well been unstoppable
The only reason Palpatine took over the galaxy was because he caught the Jedi with their pants down. Very few of the Jedi expected there to be a Sith like Palpatine pulling the strings to that much of an extent because they assumed the Sith only really had influence on the CIS. If the rule of two wasn't in place, Palpatine could've never pulled it off, even if he had to break the rule to do it.
The rule of two works though I would tweak it. Increase the number of siths but don't teach them the way you would your apprentice. Have a master and apprentice then loyal acolytes raised from birth. They're goal being to spread the influence of the sith and only coveting power for the sake of the sith empire. Hell I don't see why you couldn't implant control chips limiting them from striking down their master.
I love the COUNT DOOKU LIGHTSABER. Outside of the giveaway I believe the only crucial thing lost with the rule of two from a sith order is large scale force practices and alchemy.
The whole time scale involved also weakens the Rule of Two. Like, ok let’s spend a thousand years subverting the system from the shadows, finally seize power from within after a milennium of such high-stakes maneuvering only to lose it all 25 years later because our main military strategist accidentally turned the galaxy against us? It took Sidious less time to lose his empire than it took George Lucas to make the prequels after ROTJ!
Dark Jedi will never go away but I get the feeling the rule of 2 fucked things up so bad for the sith that I have a feeling Palpatine and Vader are the last true sith anything that may come after now will prob be more closely related to dark jedi.
The Rule of Two did succeed in one thing, it helped create the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith of all time, Palpatine. But after Palpatine was defeated, the Sith were in their deepest decline ever with no hope of becoming as strong as their predecessors. This is even the case with Darth Krayt. When Krayt summoned the spirits via holocrons of the ancient Sith Lords Darth Bane, Darth Andeddu, and Darth Nihilus for guidance, they merely mocked him and saw him as a failure of a Sith.
The rule of 2 worked for what it was initially intended for. It kept them alive and under the radar long enough for their enemies to become complacent.
But that completely goes against Sith ideology. Sith ideology demands strength and dominance over enemies, not creeping around in the shadows waiting for your enemies to have pants down.
I've agreed with the your opinion and commented as such on other Rule of Two videos. The rule only works if the master is willing to share their knowledge and fight fair in a duel. Lord Kaans Brotherhood was better imo.
Sith ideology is fundamentally opposed to order/organization. “...Through power, I gain victory, through victory my chains are broken, the force shall free me” The Sith end goal is freedom, the ability to do whatever they want whenever they want to. The issue is that organizing means a Sith must sacrifice their freedom. Freedom as a concept is inherently selfish and chaotic, so it’s understandable that an ideology that seeks freedom as the end goal doesn’t have the ability to organize on any large scale degree.
Preface statements are important. Palpatine: "It's a Sith legend." Meaning Darth Plagueis was not Palpatine's master. It was a story his unknown master told him, if he even had a master. The Sith cult could have chosen, trained, and raised him independent of the master/apprentice system. It probably failed all the time, the Jedi apparently knew about them enough to know how their system worked.
The master takes an apprentice and makes a holocron The apprentice takes an apprentice and makes a holocron When the master growes old and weak, he becomes the mentor and the 1st apprentice becomes the master With this rule of two +one and the holocrons, no knowledge is lost
Another reason the rule of two came into being is the sith were literally stupiding themselves into extinction with widespread treachery and backstabbing. It was unsustainable. The rule of two, as dumb as it was, was meant to keep them surviving, provided they followed the cycle correctly. But predictably expecting a bunch of people who needed a rule specifically to avoid shortsightedly killing themselves all off was doomed to fail.
Of I remember correctly, when Bane is formulating the rule of two he says that lesser dark side users under the command of the lods of the Sith can exist, but only two Dark Lords, so things like Ventress and the inquisitors do not go against the rule. In fact, when Sidious thought Ventress was becoming too powerful, he ordered Dooku to get her killed.
It is and it isn't a good thing. Sith inherently want power, what used to happen was multiple sith with a power level of say 4 would team up to a singular sith with a power ranking of 8. What this would do was weaken their overall leadership then those who fought would fight eachother. What the Sith rule of two allowed was one master to obtain knowledge and one who craves it. When the apprentice feels they have learned everything the master teachers they fight. If the master wins the apprentice wasn't powerful enough so they weren't weaker, but if they won they were more powerful or cunning great sith traits. What this also allowed was each generation to get stronger. In theory Bane is one of the weakest sith and Vader although an apprentice could in theory completely destroy the brotherhood of darkness with no problem just due to the generational power increase. what it also did was give the Jedi the false sense of hope that the Sith were completely destroyed that's why qui gon and count Dooku were such big issues to their plan
The rule of one next video please Out of all the orders of the Sith the sith from the old republic was probably the best. The sith that I played in that game was light side sith. Witch makes like a really cool story. I maybe a sith but I do what I do to make the empire a better place. Long live the sith empire
How did they survive? Palpatine and Vader is dead and their empire did not even last a hundred years. Meanwhile the Old Sith Empire's lasted well over a thousand.
Don’t remember who said it but the quote goes “the dark side is like poison, the less of it there is the more potent it becomes” that was the premise behind the rule of two and not a bad one at all if you ask me
That quote was from Bane. Who isn't even a true Sith Lord, might I add. That quote is so laughably false it's no wonder everyone in the Sith academy laughed him off.
also the old republic sith lords/darths etc typically only had only one or two true apprentices who were the cream of the crop and maybe a number of acolytes who were average in terms of innate talent which hardwork alone couldn't over come also unlike the ro2 and the dark brotherhood many of them were formed from families and clans of sith with the old raising their blood related relatives or students not being as obsessed with immortality and seeing their descendants and students as their means to continue on their legacy.
Great video I total agree If not for darth plagueis and palpatine the with would still be scheming and be no closer to there goal. Though I do think if they took on the idea more heavily of the week serve the strong the larger sith empires would have lasted longer
Eh I get the idea by only having 2 people, you have don’t have multiple Sith Lords fighting for power. But as we can see multiple Sith having multiple apprentices or an apprentice having an apprentice. My only question is how did mace and Yoda know about it if bane killed all the Sith and took a single apprentice into hiding.
You have made an excellent argument for why the rule of 2 was not followed and why palpatine was not necessarily as powerful as Bane or Zannah much less the ancient sith whom Bane studied. That is not the same as saying we the philosophy itself is the problem. However I will grant you 2 things: firstly we can conclude by results if a thousand years of use and the rule wasn’t followed for much of it there does need to be a change in philosophy. If it was followed I would argue the Plagueis and Palpatine duo would have ruled with truly unlimited power. They could have single handedly walked into the rebel base and destroyed every one of them. Or better yet plagueis would likely have commanded the midiclorians to abandon all life on the entire planet at once while he watched from orbit. The second thing I will grant you is the argument of “if it was only done properly it would work” is identical to why some people say socialism or communism is the way to go. In theory in a perfect world yes. But historically corruption and laziness has crippled it every single time it has been tried. Every single time. The theory of what works matters less than what is actually accomplished.
I read Plagueis and the Bane trilogy and I had 2 thoughts. 1 force lightning according to Plagueis is inherited through ones torture under their masters lightning. Bane is the only one before Tenebrous to use lightning as we see Zannah never learned the ability. So how can Tenebrous us it if Zannah herself couldn't and therefore couldn't pass it down. 2 why would you tell your apprentice everything? The sith are fueled by fear and anger so why trust them? I believe that the last Sith that cared about the old ways was Plagueis. And what does Palpatine do? Slaughters Plagueis. It's his raw power and sociopath nature imo.
1.Plagueis may have been taught it that way but there are numerous examples of Sith in Legends who learned the ability without ever being hit by it first. A good example being Exar Kun who manifested force lighting while studying dark side secrets while still a Jedi Padawan. 2.You dont tell your apprentice everything, that was Plagueis mistake. You give them knowledge in bits and pieces which forces them in frustration to seek out even greater power on their own if they ever hope of usurping you. Plagueis defied tradition and taught Sidious everything he knew without hesitation.
Bro that makes no sense. If you need to get hit by force lightning to learn force lightning then how in the hell did the first force lightning user achieve force lightning.
I like the rule of two just makes you completely evil imo the fact that even the sith can’t trust each other like as in you can become powerful but they need to be careful because that sith could overrule
Rule of Two Sith do not need to kill their masters in a lightsaber duel. A cunning victory proves that they are more worthy to usurp their master, if they did it with deception and zeal. (Bane novels) Sidious didn't need Plagueis to collect more Sith knowledge. He had EVERYTHING on the Sith collected and stashed away. He had access to it at any time. (Book of Sith, Plagueis Novel) The Sith of old did NOT become powerful because they were many. This made them weaker, not stronger. It's the whole reason we end up with the Brotherhood of Darkness. (Bane novels) Sidious was the penultimate Sith with absolute power. It's not that he couldn't replicate the powers of the ancient Sith. Rather, the ancient Sith had NEVER achieved what Sidious did. Many Sith abilities did NOT remain completely lost to history, ESPECIALLY not to Palpatine. Palpatine was capable of doing everything the ancient Sith were, and more. (Book of Sith, Plagueis novel, Dark Empire) The Sith did not become weaker throughout the Rule of Two. They did not always become stronger per generation, but by the end, they were FAR stronger than Bane. Tenebrous, Plagueis, and Sidious would easily obliterate Bane, guaranteed. (Plagueis Novel, Book of Sith, Dark Empire) I love that this video has NO sources. It's literally all based on crackpipe sources. I backed up my claims with actual sources. Do some reading, and not off Wookieepedia you disingenuous prick.
The Rule of Two was made by a Utilitarian Soldier, and had every Sith in the line been just like Bane and had the code been strictly adhered to it would have worked in completely destroying the Jedi, but without an enemy to face against it still would have turned on itself in the aftermath. It's the nature of the Sith, to betray. Revan even cited it has their greatest strength and their greatest weakness, culling the weak but also causing the downfall of the strong. The Sith nature is. est displayed, I think, by Darth Nihilus: power so great it can consume worlds, but eventually there will be nothing left to consume but himself. The road to absolute power is a dead end. Given the choice of orders, I would still choose the Rule of Two as the most effective, given the weaknesses of the Sith Empire and the Rule of One.
Imo, the Rule of Two was actually genious, but needed a contingency. For example if both Sith died, the master should have trained another apprentice who he taught as a simple replacement but with enough training. This could better avoid a Gravid situation, but to stop this 2nd apprentice from going to kill a perfect Sith, he should've been taught about Sith Defenders, like Darth Marr. Sadly, infighting almost always took the Sith Empires or even if they were 3, with about only Marr and Malgus seeking to destroy this, though in different ways.
My ideal lightsaber would be mace windu’s lightsaber. I feel like as one of the few main black characters in stars it always gave me someone I could see myself in when I was younger look up to. he is portrayed as powerful, intelligent and has a dark side that that he controls with discipline. #giveaway #myfirstsaber #macewindu
Reven was never redeemed. The Jedi used Jedi Powers to force him back to the light. Just like how he never fell. He was forced to become a Sith from the Enternal Emperor.
To me it was genius until some of the later Sith like Sidious ruined it: killing his master in a weakened state and not overpowering him, trying to create the Rule of One, making it impossible for Vader to gain enough strength to overthrow him, obsessing over living and ruling forever rather than thinking about the Sith Order as a whole. He crippled the Rule of Two...
The rule of two was an effort to mitigate the inherent risks of having an apprentice in a philosophy that would in evidently drive the apprentice to try to kill the master.
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
Revan: "Sith lords should only ever take one apprentice."
Bane: Only two Sith. Got it.
Yeah... Bane is a moron...
@Kratos God of War you made my day😆😆😆😆😆
@Kratos God of War that's also means....... UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly, just listen to your grey Jedi paragon for once.
Lol well not exactly. Bane himself approved of minions and servants, say those at the Inquisitor level. But only one true apprentice to learn everything the dark side had to offer.
The biggest irony about the Sith. Their worst enemy wasn't the Jedi, but rather themselves.
That, and of course due to them having Inherited that trait from the Jedi to begin with. Both orders regularly fuck themselves just as often, if not more so, as they fuck each other.
Ironic
and the same can be said for the jedi
@@arcerionmusic How come, they were doing fine until the strongest force user of all time appeared and created a perfect plan to wipe them out,
@@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960 which was only successful because of the hubris and overconfidence of the jedi order
“To be united by hatred, is a fragile alliance at best.”
-Kreia
The flaw in the rule of two is especially seen in Sidious himself. He never trained any of his apprentices to truly surpass him. He always purposefully kept them weaker and less knowledgeable than he.
yep and that's problem with dark side user. If realized if powerful enough on your own then you do not want to train a challenger. to when in power the rule of two becomes the rule of one.
To be fair anakin was supposed to be that person bur when he got burned on mustafar he saw that there was no chance that he would surpass him
@@spark300cworst part is that Sidious never found immortality so if he died then Sith would be gone
The Rule of Two had become unnecessary by the time of Tenebrous and Plageuis, by their own admission.
Sith philosophy as a whole is just doomed to fail, the backstabbing, infighting and just overwhelming ruthlessness were always going to be their downfall.
@Muffinconsumer4 but not every animal is trying to tear each other apart, many animals would happily leave each other alone and get on with their lives rather then always striving for to be better then everyone else, it's a fight for survival not dominance.
You can say the same of the Jedi, both are equally flawed and serve their individual purpose to bring peace to and unity of a light and dark to the Galaxy.
@Muffinconsumer4 animals don't kill indiscriminately for the sake of power is what it means
@@allknowingfreddybear9291 They are not equally flawed, they are both flawed yes but the Sith ideals is rooted in domination, subjugation and overall xenophobia. The Jedi are emotionally suppressed, fanatical and uncompromising in their views but they are rooted in actually trying to improve the lives of their citizens. That's why the Jedi always win in the end.
@Muffinconsumer4 you're comparing a organisation that's doomed to fail because it encourages in-fighting while the animal kingdom is mostly survival of the fittest but doesn't result in self destruction
Bruh imagin if the sith order died because you had a heart attack after you killed your master 😂
Every sith ever: bruh
Best case scenario for the Jedi
@@oecmnnncxzo7796 Also Every Sith: Now what?
Bane: *Tries to sneak away*
Every other Sith: GET THAT MOTHER FUCKER!
That's pretty much what happened with palpatine and Vader
Sith apprentice: WHOO SHIT DAMN THAT WAS TOUGH ....... WAIT WHAT'S THIS (clutches chest) Not like thissss. (Fades to black.)
“ If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters”.
Kreia compared the ancient sith to the ones around her time, not the banite sith. She very well might have something different to say by about plagueis or palps had she been around to see them.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 hell she had Darth nihilus in her time mfer went full on Galactus eating planets, now if you're talking about the power of stealth and subterfuge on papa Palps end of things then eh maybe? but just straight up capital P POWA!
Definitely the ancient Sith
@@Camnorand Darth Sidious is easily the most powerful Sith Lord of all time.
@@Camnorand no ancient sith could be Darth sidious....
@@Cyrus-rodn45 Sidious has shown in what's now not cannon that he is a master at manipulation and "did" have the power to force lightening your ass half way across a system but he was and is woefully weak compared to some of the power house lords in the ancient empire
I think the rule of two worked only in the sense of keeping the Sith alive until the fall of the Jedi. At that point Palpatine should have started bringing the Sith back, revealing them as a new type of Jedi that will ensure the peace better than what the old Jedi have ever done instead of just having a handful of dark side adept be his inquisitors.
Sounds like what some ideas about Count Dooku's vision of what would happen after the Sith Grand Plan was realized (with him never realizing Sidious was grooming Anakin to replace him until it was too late).
Then a thousand of them band together and storm palpatine's ship and kill him and vader with ease. Lol
@@Kevin-zz9du sidious isn't stupid he probably has plans if that ever happened what are a few sith gonna do against many star destroyers and vader an absolute monster with both lightsaber and raw force power? Not to mention sidious hoards knowledge so they would never become stronger than either of them
Kind of did with the inquisitors
@@neilstone4529Inquisitors were a great idea, after taking down a master or failing into do it you take your most powerful Inquisitor as an apprentice and appoint the second strongest as the replacement to Grand Inquisitor then the wheel spins again in a cicle
Like many things in Star Wars, the rule of two was created by Lucas when TPM came out. It was to explain why there weren’t any other Sith mentioned during the OT.
Bro what does TPM and OT mean
@@thespeedyarrowdjmax8574 tpm = the phantom menace, ot = original trilogy
Sometimes I think it would've been much better to Remake the entire Origina Trilogy to adapt in a much better way all the Lore and Consequences that the Precuels had to offer in the Galaxy Timeline.
@@robkzin94oldwave77nah, what we had was good. Legends need to be integrated heavily into canon, though, and well. Not this acolyte bs
I've always wondered how Star Wars rule of 2. Would compare to Afro samurai's number one and number 2( Anyone can challenge number 2, only number 2 can challenge number one).
It gave stability but ultimately was going to fail no matter what.
I really love the idea of descending power, and in fact wrote a story about a war averted and mages getting weaker because of this beat in star wars.
"Bane was sitting cross-legged on the stone floor of the central chamber on the Rakatan Temple's uppermost floor. He was meditating on Revan's words as he had often done between the Holocron's lessons. Now that the artifact was gone, it was even more important to contemplate what he had learned about the nature of the dark side . . . and the path it would lead him down. By its very nature, the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. The constant battling of the Sith since the beginning of recorded history served a necessary purpose: it kept the power of the dark side concentrated in a few powerful individuals. The Brotherhood had changed all that. There were now a hundred or more Dark Lords following Kaan, but most were weak and inferior. The Sith numbers were greater than they had ever been, yet they were still losing the war against the Jedi. The power of the dark side cannot be dispersed among the masses. It must be concentrated in the few who are worthy of the honor. The strength of numbers was a trap . . . one that had snared all the great Sith Lords who had come before. Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan: each had been powerful. Each had drawn disciples in, teaching them the ways of the dark side. Each had assembled an army of followers and unleashed them against the Jedi. Yet in each and every case the servants of light had prevailed. The Jedi would always remain united in their cause. The Sith would always be brought low by infighting and betrayals. The very traits that drove them to individual greatness and glory-the unrelenting ambition, the insatiable hunger for power-would ultimately doom them as a whole. This was the inescapable paradox of the Sith. Kaan had tried to solve the problem by making everyone equal in the Brotherhood. But his solution was flawed. It showed no understanding of the real problem. No understanding of the true nature of the dark side. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If all are equal, then none is strong. Yet whoever rose from the swollen and bloated ranks of the Sith to claim the mantle of Dark Lord would never be able to hold it. In time the apprentices will unite their strength and overthrow the Master. It is inevitable. Together the weak would overwhelm the strong in a gross perversion of the natural order. But there was another solution. A way to break the endless cycle dragging the Sith down. Bane understood that now. At first he had thought the answer might be to replace the order of the Sith with a single, all-powerful Dark Lord. No other Masters. No apprentices. Just one vessel to contain all the knowledge and power of the dark side. But he had quickly dismissed the idea. Eventually even a Dark Lord would wither and die; all the knowledge of the Sith would be lost. If the leader grows weak, another must rise to seize the mantle. One alone would never work. But if the Sith numbered exactly two . . Minions and servants could be drawn in to the service of the dark side by the temptation of power. They could be given small tastes of what it offered, as an owner might share morsels from the table with his faithful curs. In the end, however, there could be only one true Sith Master. And to serve this Master, there could be only one true apprentice. Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it. The Rule of Two. This was the knowledge that would lead the dark side into a new age. A revelation that would bring an end to the infighting that had defined the order for a thousand generations. The Sith would be reborn, the new ways would be swept away-and Bane would be the one to do it. " - Darth Bane: Path to Destruction
The problem was there were too few Sith to live on and so much banking on it’s success. If a freak accident happened or they get discovered early then bam it over. Besides it did it job. A modern Sith Order should have been made like it’s older incarnations.
Finally, someone gets it. The sith definitely had some problems to work through, but lowering their numbers to literally two selfish and conceited sith destroys any and all potential merits. It failed, over, and over, and over. They were nearly wiped out time after time, they lost centuries of knowledge and progress at least twice, once because the 'dark lord' just up and decided he wasn't about that life. And when they finally 'succeeded', it was for all of two decades, after a thousand years and a hundred plus generations of planning. Worst of all, when they did it wasn't because their plan worked, and they'd just gotten that powerful. It was because the Jedi's plan didn't, making them grow weak and complacent. They didn't defeat the Jedi, the Jedi hung themselves from their ivory tower, making mistake after mistake. The rule of two sith didn't succeed, they just messed up slightly less than the jedi order.
Well, yeah, honestly there’s no better way to put that. I feel like if any order tried that tactic against another and waited for them to grow weak and complacent, of course they’d most likely pull off some kind of victory.
I wouldn't downplay the rule of two like that. Although it wasn't a major success i wouldn't say they only succeeded because the jedi became complacent. The jedi hadn't changed much from the time of the old republic. In fact, they were arguably worse during kotor 2 and swtor than they were during the clone wars era. The tcw jedi participated in wars and got overconfident, but the older order more or less ignored all the major conflicts in the galaxy and did nothing. The brotherhood of darkness would have been the greatest order if it wasn't for Bane interfering.
@@yggunshot8402 The rule of two was so objectively bad as an idea, that there are many fans that theorize it was a long term plan by revan to destroy the sith. Yeah. That's how bad it was. I don't need to downplay it. Bane screwed up really bad. By the time the era of sidious rolled around, the sith were far from stronger. So much Knowledge was lost, and with incidents like the gravid one, it brings into question whether the rule of two sith were even potentially stronger than their predecessors. Of the rule of two sith we've been made aware of, a grand total of two actually beat their masters in a straight fight.. and one is a bit up in the air about who actually survived. Everyone else, the vast majority, used deception and/or help to get the job done. Example: sidious is said to be the greatest of the sith, but even he feared a direct confrontation with his master, and chose to trick him instead. Speaking of his master, I believe plageuis killed tenebrous by dropping a cave on his head in an ambush? Really brings into question if the sith got stronger at all.
@@5stargrim The idea that you must actually kill your master in a fair fight in order to usurp them as the new rot master is silly. Surpassing your master through cunning and/or intellect is just as effective. If you were so weak so as to leave yourself vulnerable, you probably weren't a safe bet for the rule of two anyway. In fact, the rot sith won by being smart and manipulative, not by conquest which had failed countless times and amounted to nothing significant. Sure, you could argue that Gravid set the sith back power-wise, but it doesn't change the fact that they got better at manipulation which is all that really mattered. In that sense, you can see how one dimensional Bane's line of thinking was. As if it mattered how powerful an individual force user got, or how knowledgeable they were. Now, as I previously established, the jedi hasn't gotten worse since the time of the old republic, they were actually much better. Perhaps more arrogant, but actually pragmatic for a change. The old republic jedi once agreed to a peace treaty with the sith empire (already a dumb move) only to have their temple sacked as well as coruscant bombed and subsequently captured... While they were on Alderaan having negotiations with Darth Baras. That is about how effective they were. The prequel era jedi are obviously far superior and the sith one-upping them is easily a better accomplishment. Generally the jedi before they "lost their way" so to speak, refers to the jedi from the dawn of the jedi era, not the old republic.
@@yggunshot8402 The only problem with that is that new republic era Jedi were undoubtedly by far weaker on average than Jedi of the old republic era. I'd argue that was the sole success of the rule of two, by taking away their only real enemy, the Jedi grew weak and complacent. That as an idea is nice, until you remember that Bane's idea for doing that was to hard reset and have two dudes carry the sith to victory with practically zero help (and what help they did have, went against the rule of two) just assuming that each and every master would choose/train their apprentices well, and that each apprentice would truly surpass their master. They didn't. Also, you day that the idea of them having to beat their master in a fair fight is ridiculous, but that's exactly what bane wanted from zannah when he made the rule. Literally that was his whole idea; using trickery, numbers and deception to defeat far more powerful sith was the *whole* problem he was trying to fix with the rule of two. He even nearly gave up on the rule of two several times, himself. Even in his final moments, he opted to try to take over zannah's body with essence transfer and continue his reign. Every other rule of two era sith also disagreed with or outright disregarded the rule of two, so yeah. Even in universe practicing members aren't big fans of it; I don't really need to downplay it. It was a dumb idea and even bane knew it.
FINALLY! Someone explaining just how absurd the rule of two was
It's just a retcon to explain why they were absent from the OT. I find it kinda funny though that some people talk about it like it's the most genius idea ever when its just a patch for a plothole and also failed terribly in universe. Hilarious to think about all the Dark Lords of the Sith that canonically sat around doing absolutely nothing their whole lives because of this
Darth Vectivus: Hmmmm, yes, banking. Dark side stick markets and all that jazz.
@@MotorcycleCheetah Lmao
@@vanilla8956 You know it's true! XD
@@MotorcycleCheetah Search your feelings
I really enjoy these longer videos. Gives a lot of space for more detailed intel
I really believe the Rule of Two is stupid and that the master can never be succeeded by their apprentice. It is almost impossible for an apprentice to become more powerful and knowledgeable than the master that teaches them these things. There is no point when an ever learning master is no longer useful. The only way it can work is if the master grows stale and stuck in their ways, which never happens due to their ambitions. Additionally when this does happen, often times the Master is betrayed instead of challenged which is likely the reason why so much knowledge is lost. It goes to show that an apprentice simply cannot defeat their master in fairness, so they are forced to betray their masters in a lust for themselves power that they are denying themselves by eliminating an asset. If they were to work together to further their goals true power can be obtained!
The reason why all bad guys lose: they fight for the wrong reasons-simple as that.
Not only that, the bad guys choosing to fight amongst each other as well.
And never have a backup plan
I love these longer videos as they can cover more complex topics and go into finer detail in general.
I always thought the same thing because it happens a lot in TV shows. And movies and real life. Imagine if a master and apprentice fought each other. And they both killed each other almost at the exact same time, just like that, it would be over.
If you think about the scale of an entire GALAXY its hard to imagine just 2 people carrying the sith and manipulating everything
I never thought the secret of immortality ever existed. I assumed it was a ploy of palpatine to sway Anakin to the dark side. Ultimately at the end of revenge of the sith you see how Anakins fixation on padme choked the life out of her or his anger stole her life force in order to survive
I feel like the rule of two would have worked if everybody killed their masters in a fair fight it would have kept making the sith stronger
That is what happened. Or at least its implied that, that is how it worked. The only ones who didn't was Plagues and Sidious.
Exactly what I've been saying for years now. All hail the Dark Side, but fuck Darth Bane.
Good.....good.
And yet Bane's dynasty was litterally the ones to accomplish what every other Sith had failed: Toppling the Republic and Jedi.
Litterally Bane was a part of the Sith Order when it had its largest numbers in recorded history, he was well aware of the benefits and disadvantages of having multiple Sith.
@@AbsurdFalcon Victory is pointless if there's no one left to celebrate. Bane saw fit to sacrifice an entire Empire of Sith controlling major parts of the know galaxy for a risky, uncertain plan to hide among the Jedi and maybe, just maybe rise to power centuries later based on the assumption that the Jedi wouldn't sense the Dark Side among them. Yeah, no I'm with the Sith Order here. And did he solve the problems the Sith had? Absolutely not.
@@Mediados It did solve the problems with the sith. The victory wasn't pointless because the entire point of the darkside is it doesnt glorify strength of numbers, it is entirely about personal power. His plan was uncertain but even with over 20000 Sith Lords, Kaan was still loosing the war in the end. Strength of numbers has never worked for the sith, every single time it has failed. Bane's change to the Rule of Two was built upon a deep understanding of Sith History and directly inspired by the teachings of Darth Revan. It doesnt matter if there arent others to celebrate, Bane's plan succeded where every Sith Empire failed. It was far less risky then you give it credit for, the Sith ensured that they were believed to be dead. They operated for 1000 years unchallenged in the shadows building power and strength. Say whatever you want about the Rule of Two, it succeded in toppling the Jedi and Republic. Something that Revan, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Vitiate, and Kaan all failed at.
Not to mention that at the time Bane destroyed the Brotherhood, they didn't have control of any major parts of the Galaxy. Kaan rerouted all of his forces to Ruusan to defeat the Army of Light and take the Jedi out of the war. They lost all of their territory in the process, which is why the war ended once the Brotherhood died on Ruusan. Kaan sacrificed all of their territory to take out the Jedi from the war, reasoning that they could regroup and build once they eliminate the Jedi, and steamroll the republic with the combined power of their soldiers and and the remaining Sith. Bane didn't sacrifice anything, he lept off a sinking ship.
if the rule of 2 was a "bad Idea", then why were they able to successfully have complete control of the galaxy? They had so much power that they were able to almost wipe out the jedi to the point of extinction for some time. The Sith always worked better when they were in the shadows. Unseen, hidden, never truly revealing themselves to the galaxy until episode 1. Even if things turned around for the worst for them, it still was a successful plan
It should be Rule of 2,000,000, one million masters and one million apprentices.
1:47 That transition was CLEAN AS HELL.
Everyone can criticize anything about the rule of Two, but it's this rule that saved the sith and brought everything to its knees. For this modern era, the rule of two was essential and from those criticals the rule can be more powerful
One of my buddies and I had a discussion about the Sith Doctrine and we had decided on Feudalism to be the best way for the Sith to actually cultivate their power. It would stop the greater portion of Lords from killing each other and prioritize the Sith Empire/Order to expand to carve out territory and so on.
The sith was plagued by infighting n betrayal..... the whole purpose of the rule of two was so that the master teaches the apprentice n when he has no more to teach then apprentice kills him and take the knowledge and then take an apprentice.
@@Cyrus-rodn45 Right, but accidents happen and Sith Treachery would only have one target under the rule of two. Logistically speaking it's a bad move even before you remember that (if I remember correctly, anyway) the Sith of that Era didn't write jack down to pass on. Apparently is doesn't matter in the new canon, if what I'm reading is true. Since you seem to absorb your master's soul and the souls of all the Banites after killing your Sith Master in the Rule of Two. It's a fun thought experiment though.
@@D1gital-ZER0 that whole soul bs is nonsense.... the sith seeked knowledge and the end goal was immortality
@@Cyrus-rodn45 More's the better, then. It sounded really dumb, but anything's possible.
@@D1gital-ZER0 ik the Rae saga was trash..... only good movie was the last jedi
I always thought that the force had to maintain a certain amount of dark and light side spirt in the galaxy. So the dark side spirt would be more stronger if only split amongst two instead of 2000
The rule of 2 made most sense for the sith.... because the sith empire was plagued with in fighting for betrayal is the way of the sith. The rule of 2 made the sith most dangerous because the master always had to be aware of the apprentice who would back stabbing
That’s dumb. And completely incorrect factually. At no point were the rule of two Sith stronger than the sith empire. With the brief exception of the 19 year old Galactic Empire period.
@@attika3145 lol clearly u don't know star wars Canon.... why was the rule of two created.
@@Cyrus-rodn45 The rule of 2 was created to force the Sith to either get stronger or vanish completely. It’s goal was to stop the infighting and power struggles. But as the video points out, all it did was guarantee the infighting. And it didn’t guarantee the strongest Sith actually won. As the *video* pointed out. Alongside a wide array of other issues.
Not sure what your trying to get at, asking me if I even know why was it was created, yet you yourself answer that question in your main comment. Yet all your showing is that you didn’t watch the video.
@@attika3145 Remember that the sith only won through trickery and politics and never through power in the force. Most jedi were killed by clones and non force sensitive military.
Every rule anyone comes up with us foolish in one way or another, the way we decide weather it's good or not, is weather it will last, and it's results.
There is no such thing as the perfect rule. There will always be backlash to everything.
Palpitine did not follow the rule of two as he had inquisitors and dark Jedi. He had 3 apprentice and 2 alive at the sametime.
cuase he realized how BS it was
The problem with the Sith philosophy of “freedom” is that it cares only for the individual’s freedom ‘to’ act as they please, ‘to’ impose their will on others. However, it cares nothing for their freedom ‘from,’ their freedom ‘from’ violence, ‘from’ others imposing their wills upon them, freedoms which basic social structures provide, and allow people to go about life without the need to constantly defend themselves.
This leaves them paranoid, constantly in fear of usurpation, or of their master’s cruel whims. Unable to truly free themselves, as they are now a slave to fear and suspicion.
yep the problem with Sith code that fully embracing the dark side means no freedom yep for the leader. Every Sith Lord craves to control others because they crave power. this create problem that Sith order can be stable. other dark side orders would not full embrace the dark side and practice restraint. How ever the Sith would view these orders as weaker because they make room for compassion.
All Sith are free, they don't need someone to give them freedom or there is no way to take someone's freedom. All great Sith realize at the onset of their greatness, that they became great because they realized their power of choice is always under their own command, and don't need permission or unnecessary restrictions on others to be able to enjoy their freedom. Unnecessary frictions and restrictions like not being able impose ones will on others would undermine the philosophy of the Sith, which means, to desire to seek domination above all else so that the claimant or aspirant can create their own reality. That potential for greater power is undermined by arbitrary restrictions.
True discipline is to control what can is within our power of choice, and don't try to control what is outside of our power of choice. Learning that distinction prevents one from either weakening oneself in what one can reasonable accomplish or creating an overly flattering view of oneself, to avoid having self-flattery and hubris which can undermine an order. This is just one aspect of discipline really, and all Sith should be aware of and focus on what they can control; their opinions, pursuits, desire, aversion and in a nutshell, their actions, and what they cannot control; property, death, disability, reputation, and command from high office, in a nutshell, that which concerns people. Trying to control the latter will just make one miserable and make mistakes after mistakes.
Honestly, Palpatine's Dark Empire is the only way I see the Sith working. If literally every single piece of his empire is connected via the dark side to himself, like a proto-hivemind, then It's literally a "Rule of One". And It's not impossible to make at all, Vitiate could have acomplished something like that if he wasn't having delusional internal conflicts about his existance and potential godhood.
Technically they got around this by having cultists and other dark side users who weren't officially siths.
What if the emperor and Darth Vader were in a space ship and had a accident the with are dead forever
I don't believe there was an issue with Darth Bane's Rule of Two. If you really break it down, both sides sith/jedi lost most knowledge of force abilities over the years through war, theft, etc... I honestly put most the blame for the failure of the Sith on Sidious. He not only killed his master who had just started to truly unlock immortality (for the third time that I'm aware of in the history of the sith) but also he chose an apprentice who was first a Jedi. Historically that was frowned upon because they weren't raised as TRUE sith from a young age. Which left them susceptible to be brought back to the light side. Sidious always came off to me as someone who was overly confident and lacking the true patience and wisdom it takes to be a Sith master.
I mean, Luke said overconfidence was Palpatine's weakness.
Hot take, if the Sith actually kept trying to get stronger they would have won. They had the idea that the student beats the master to be stronger, which is a silly idea. The master is no longer trying to learn because he sees himself as the most powerful, so he needs to teach someone effectively capping themselves instead of being eternal learners with fellow students.
Rule of 2 works for me because all the normal infighting of Sith that prevented them from winning for thousands of years would be eliminated.
However, the rule of two did leave the Sith vulnerable and was contradictory at its core. The whole thing was designed to strengthen the Sith as a whole. Why would a Sith Lord even care about preserving the Sith. The dark side and sith philosophy is one of base selfishness and a list for power. Most individuals dedicated to the dark would be so selfish and power hungry, I can't see them doing anything for the good of others.
It took the rule of two sith centuries just to rule for like 20 years if you ask me that’s a disappointment
I mean Marka Ragnos rule lasted 100 years with far less territory then the Empire. Naga Sadows rule lasted 1 year. Vitiate's empire was in a small sector of space for over 300 years before the Galactic War in SWTOR and even then his empire failed to conquer as much territory as the Galactic Empire and fell apart within roughly 50 years of achieving it.
@@AbsurdFalcon it doesn’t really matter how much territory you rule if can’t keep it. The sith was better off building there forces until the republic grew weak
@@elijah-e4n The territory only lasted for a short time, it took less then a year for Marka Ragnos empire to fall after his death.
The Sith Empire that spent hundreds of years forming was crushed within a year of conflict within the republic.
Besides this, the Sith’s numbers during Bane’s time were larger then they ever had been before, and they were still losing to the Republic.
Building numbers doesn’t work for the Sith because they will always shoot themselves in the foot with betrayals and struggle for power.
@@elijah-e4n While the Republic and Jedi will stay united in their cause, the Sith will backstab and betray one another the entire time.
The rule of 2 was flawed because darth bane foolishly believed that the sith a vindictive,greedy,power-hungry organization wouldnt be greedy powerhungry and vindictive i would argue the only reason the sith won wasnt because the rule of 2 was some secret unlocking of power to overule the jedi is that the jedi werent really trained for sith i mean they hadnt fought the sith in 1000s of years and all their training was just a multi millenia game of telephone being trained more for blasterfire then sith saber techniques and tricks
The sith could have easily been killed by a drunk driver ramming into sidious and dooku, it’s a very dumb concept
The Rule of Two was interesting as a thematic decision that had its ups and downs, but I much rather the Sith armies of the Old Republic in terms of appeal. I think at the end of the day, Sith philosophy was flawed. They were too traitorous and willing to backstab and kill each other for any real progress to be made. Heck, they probably stopped themselves from taking over the galaxy way more than the Jedi ever did. They were powerful, but always doomed to collapse due infighting. If they could have managed to a more loyal, disciplined, and reliable hierarchy while still maintain their ambition and ferocity, they may have very well been unstoppable
The only reason Palpatine took over the galaxy was because he caught the Jedi with their pants down. Very few of the Jedi expected there to be a Sith like Palpatine pulling the strings to that much of an extent because they assumed the Sith only really had influence on the CIS. If the rule of two wasn't in place, Palpatine could've never pulled it off, even if he had to break the rule to do it.
The rule of two works though I would tweak it. Increase the number of siths but don't teach them the way you would your apprentice. Have a master and apprentice then loyal acolytes raised from birth. They're goal being to spread the influence of the sith and only coveting power for the sake of the sith empire. Hell I don't see why you couldn't implant control chips limiting them from striking down their master.
So basically combining the old sith empire (Vitiates Empire) with the rule of two (Bane’s Sith).
I love the COUNT DOOKU LIGHTSABER. Outside of the giveaway I believe the only crucial thing lost with the rule of two from a sith order is large scale force practices and alchemy.
The whole time scale involved also weakens the Rule of Two. Like, ok let’s spend a thousand years subverting the system from the shadows, finally seize power from within after a milennium of such high-stakes maneuvering only to lose it all 25 years later because our main military strategist accidentally turned the galaxy against us? It took Sidious less time to lose his empire than it took George Lucas to make the prequels after ROTJ!
Dark Jedi will never go away but I get the feeling the rule of 2 fucked things up so bad for the sith that I have a feeling Palpatine and Vader are the last true sith anything that may come after now will prob be more closely related to dark jedi.
The Rule of Two did succeed in one thing, it helped create the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith of all time, Palpatine. But after Palpatine was defeated, the Sith were in their deepest decline ever with no hope of becoming as strong as their predecessors. This is even the case with Darth Krayt. When Krayt summoned the spirits via holocrons of the ancient Sith Lords Darth Bane, Darth Andeddu, and Darth Nihilus for guidance, they merely mocked him and saw him as a failure of a Sith.
I like sith from swtor era and the brotherhood of evil.
The rule of 2 worked for what it was initially intended for. It kept them alive and under the radar long enough for their enemies to become complacent.
But that completely goes against Sith ideology. Sith ideology demands strength and dominance over enemies, not creeping around in the shadows waiting for your enemies to have pants down.
I've agreed with the your opinion and commented as such on other Rule of Two videos. The rule only works if the master is willing to share their knowledge and fight fair in a duel. Lord Kaans Brotherhood was better imo.
The research was very slow until i sacked the jedi temple. Fahx's 👍
Sith ideology is fundamentally opposed to order/organization. “...Through power, I gain victory, through victory my chains are broken, the force shall free me”
The Sith end goal is freedom, the ability to do whatever they want whenever they want to. The issue is that organizing means a Sith must sacrifice their freedom. Freedom as a concept is inherently selfish and chaotic, so it’s understandable that an ideology that seeks freedom as the end goal doesn’t have the ability to organize on any large scale degree.
Preface statements are important. Palpatine: "It's a Sith legend." Meaning Darth Plagueis was not Palpatine's master. It was a story his unknown master told him, if he even had a master.
The Sith cult could have chosen, trained, and raised him independent of the master/apprentice system. It probably failed all the time, the Jedi apparently knew about them enough to know how their system worked.
Plagueis was his master in all continuities. Him saying it was a Sith Legend was him giving a sales pitch to Anakin.
The rule of two was designed to achieve a goal.
And it only worked because everyone else was stupid
The master takes an apprentice and makes a holocron
The apprentice takes an apprentice and makes a holocron
When the master growes old and weak, he becomes the mentor and the 1st apprentice becomes the master
With this rule of two +one and the holocrons, no knowledge is lost
Yeah but not many sith apprentices would just wait until their master got old. So no mentor would ever be present. Though the holocron is a good idea.
Another reason the rule of two came into being is the sith were literally stupiding themselves into extinction with widespread treachery and backstabbing. It was unsustainable. The rule of two, as dumb as it was, was meant to keep them surviving, provided they followed the cycle correctly. But predictably expecting a bunch of people who needed a rule specifically to avoid shortsightedly killing themselves all off was doomed to fail.
And yet it lasted for one thousand years. Eventually bringing forth the Sith Lord whom toppled the Jedi and crushed the republic.
I agree the rule of two is stupid no real ninja is going to train a fake ass ninja just to kill him later on 💯🤣😒
I can really say You didnt read Darth Bane.
The rule of two was total BS Palpatine trained maul and Dooku. And Dooku trained Ventres and Grievous.
And also Savage at first. Making 5 sith exist at once
Of I remember correctly, when Bane is formulating the rule of two he says that lesser dark side users under the command of the lods of the Sith can exist, but only two Dark Lords, so things like Ventress and the inquisitors do not go against the rule. In fact, when Sidious thought Ventress was becoming too powerful, he ordered Dooku to get her killed.
It is and it isn't a good thing. Sith inherently want power, what used to happen was multiple sith with a power level of say 4 would team up to a singular sith with a power ranking of 8. What this would do was weaken their overall leadership then those who fought would fight eachother. What the Sith rule of two allowed was one master to obtain knowledge and one who craves it. When the apprentice feels they have learned everything the master teachers they fight. If the master wins the apprentice wasn't powerful enough so they weren't weaker, but if they won they were more powerful or cunning great sith traits. What this also allowed was each generation to get stronger. In theory Bane is one of the weakest sith and Vader although an apprentice could in theory completely destroy the brotherhood of darkness with no problem just due to the generational power increase. what it also did was give the Jedi the false sense of hope that the Sith were completely destroyed that's why qui gon and count Dooku were such big issues to their plan
The rule of one next video please
Out of all the orders of the Sith the sith from the old republic was probably the best. The sith that I played in that game was light side sith. Witch makes like a really cool story. I maybe a sith but I do what I do to make the empire a better place. Long live the sith empire
Well the rule of two was able to do the one thing that no sith empire could. Survive.
How did they survive? Palpatine and Vader is dead and their empire did not even last a hundred years. Meanwhile the Old Sith Empire's lasted well over a thousand.
The Rule of Two was idiotic.
But it worked better then every other system
Well said, well said. I basically agree with everything you said here.
"After Darth Vader killed Palpatine" I'm so glad everyone just ignores the new trilogy
Bruh, what are you talking about, there's no new trilogy, you must been dreaming
Excellent presentation, expertly articulated.
I can tell you right now why Palpatine was not afraid of the Inquisitors rising up against him. Cause he would fuck them up😂
Well, it's not like anyone in Star Wars has common sense.
Palpatine skirted the rule of two constantly. Vader was his apprentice but he had inquisitors and according to legend Mara Jade the emperor’s hand.
That is definitely the point. No matter what if it’s just two or a whole army, the Sith were destined to fail.
Don’t remember who said it but the quote goes “the dark side is like poison, the less of it there is the more potent it becomes” that was the premise behind the rule of two and not a bad one at all if you ask me
That quote was from Bane. Who isn't even a true Sith Lord, might I add. That quote is so laughably false it's no wonder everyone in the Sith academy laughed him off.
also the old republic sith lords/darths etc typically only had only one or two true apprentices who were the cream of the crop and maybe a number of acolytes who were average in terms of innate talent which hardwork alone couldn't over come also unlike the ro2 and the dark brotherhood many of them were formed from families and clans of sith with the old raising their blood related relatives or students not being as obsessed with immortality and seeing their descendants and students as their means to continue on their legacy.
Respect how he emphasises that this is HIS opinion
Aprendice Killing his master once becoming stronger than him made the sith power grow exponentially with new generation.
Great video I total agree If not for darth plagueis and palpatine the with would still be scheming and be no closer to there goal. Though I do think if they took on the idea more heavily of the week serve the strong the larger sith empires would have lasted longer
Actually the rule of two encourages the spread of information, rather than hoarding information like other types of rule.
Eh I get the idea by only having 2 people, you have don’t have multiple Sith Lords fighting for power. But as we can see multiple Sith having multiple apprentices or an apprentice having an apprentice. My only question is how did mace and Yoda know about it if bane killed all the Sith and took a single apprentice into hiding.
You have made an excellent argument for why the rule of 2 was not followed and why palpatine was not necessarily as powerful as Bane or Zannah much less the ancient sith whom Bane studied. That is not the same as saying we the philosophy itself is the problem.
However I will grant you 2 things: firstly we can conclude by results if a thousand years of use and the rule wasn’t followed for much of it there does need to be a change in philosophy. If it was followed I would argue the Plagueis and Palpatine duo would have ruled with truly unlimited power. They could have single handedly walked into the rebel base and destroyed every one of them. Or better yet plagueis would likely have commanded the midiclorians to abandon all life on the entire planet at once while he watched from orbit. The second thing I will grant you is the argument of “if it was only done properly it would work” is identical to why some people say socialism or communism is the way to go. In theory in a perfect world yes. But historically corruption and laziness has crippled it every single time it has been tried. Every single time. The theory of what works matters less than what is actually accomplished.
I read Plagueis and the Bane trilogy and I had 2 thoughts.
1 force lightning according to Plagueis is inherited through ones torture under their masters lightning. Bane is the only one before Tenebrous to use lightning as we see Zannah never learned the ability. So how can Tenebrous us it if Zannah herself couldn't and therefore couldn't pass it down.
2 why would you tell your apprentice everything? The sith are fueled by fear and anger so why trust them? I believe that the last Sith that cared about the old ways was Plagueis. And what does Palpatine do? Slaughters Plagueis. It's his raw power and sociopath nature imo.
1.Plagueis may have been taught it that way but there are numerous examples of Sith in Legends who learned the ability without ever being hit by it first. A good example being Exar Kun who manifested force lighting while studying dark side secrets while still a Jedi Padawan.
2.You dont tell your apprentice everything, that was Plagueis mistake. You give them knowledge in bits and pieces which forces them in frustration to seek out even greater power on their own if they ever hope of usurping you. Plagueis defied tradition and taught Sidious everything he knew without hesitation.
Bro that makes no sense. If you need to get hit by force lightning to learn force lightning then how in the hell did the first force lightning user achieve force lightning.
I like the rule of two just makes you completely evil imo the fact that even the sith can’t trust each other like as in you can become powerful but they need to be careful because that sith could overrule
Rule of Two Sith do not need to kill their masters in a lightsaber duel. A cunning victory proves that they are more worthy to usurp their master, if they did it with deception and zeal. (Bane novels)
Sidious didn't need Plagueis to collect more Sith knowledge. He had EVERYTHING on the Sith collected and stashed away. He had access to it at any time. (Book of Sith, Plagueis Novel)
The Sith of old did NOT become powerful because they were many. This made them weaker, not stronger. It's the whole reason we end up with the Brotherhood of Darkness. (Bane novels)
Sidious was the penultimate Sith with absolute power. It's not that he couldn't replicate the powers of the ancient Sith. Rather, the ancient Sith had NEVER achieved what Sidious did. Many Sith abilities did NOT remain completely lost to history, ESPECIALLY not to Palpatine. Palpatine was capable of doing everything the ancient Sith were, and more. (Book of Sith, Plagueis novel, Dark Empire)
The Sith did not become weaker throughout the Rule of Two. They did not always become stronger per generation, but by the end, they were FAR stronger than Bane. Tenebrous, Plagueis, and Sidious would easily obliterate Bane, guaranteed. (Plagueis Novel, Book of Sith, Dark Empire)
I love that this video has NO sources. It's literally all based on crackpipe sources. I backed up my claims with actual sources. Do some reading, and not off Wookieepedia you disingenuous prick.
The Rule of Two was made by a Utilitarian Soldier, and had every Sith in the line been just like Bane and had the code been strictly adhered to it would have worked in completely destroying the Jedi, but without an enemy to face against it still would have turned on itself in the aftermath.
It's the nature of the Sith, to betray. Revan even cited it has their greatest strength and their greatest weakness, culling the weak but also causing the downfall of the strong.
The Sith nature is. est displayed, I think, by Darth Nihilus: power so great it can consume worlds, but eventually there will be nothing left to consume but himself. The road to absolute power is a dead end.
Given the choice of orders, I would still choose the Rule of Two as the most effective, given the weaknesses of the Sith Empire and the Rule of One.
I couldn't agree more. The only reason the Rule of two Sith could last that long is Deus Ex Machina.
Thanks for the info
Lol the funny part is Palpatine could have taken control even without the force.
darth bane vs darth sidious; who would win in a lightsaber duel ?
It was palpayine tue was the issue with the rule of two, he never intended to pass his power or mantle the the next
Imo, the Rule of Two was actually genious, but needed a contingency. For example if both Sith died, the master should have trained another apprentice who he taught as a simple replacement but with enough training. This could better avoid a Gravid situation, but to stop this 2nd apprentice from going to kill a perfect Sith, he should've been taught about Sith Defenders, like Darth Marr. Sadly, infighting almost always took the Sith Empires or even if they were 3, with about only Marr and Malgus seeking to destroy this, though in different ways.
Sith Empire and they need to stop fighting between them for power! I agree 100%
I think that is the with focused on their passion in general it would’ve paid off for a with society
My ideal lightsaber would be mace windu’s lightsaber. I feel like as one of the few main black characters in stars it always gave me someone I could see myself in when I was younger look up to. he is portrayed as powerful, intelligent and has a dark side that that he controls with discipline. #giveaway #myfirstsaber #macewindu
I always like to hear some rule of two slander
Reven was never redeemed. The Jedi used Jedi Powers to force him back to the light. Just like how he never fell. He was forced to become a Sith from the Enternal Emperor.
To me it was genius until some of the later Sith like Sidious ruined it: killing his master in a weakened state and not overpowering him, trying to create the Rule of One, making it impossible for Vader to gain enough strength to overthrow him, obsessing over living and ruling forever rather than thinking about the Sith Order as a whole. He crippled the Rule of Two...
The rule of two was an effort to mitigate the inherent risks of having an apprentice in a philosophy that would in evidently drive the apprentice to try to kill the master.